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Third Sex

Started by Protasekretis, August 11, 2010, 01:21:49 PM

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Protasekretis

I was reading today through Julia Serano's book, Whipping Girl, and I came to page174, chapter Third-Gendering and Third-Sexism.

She writes there something like, that cissexual people are too often third-gendering trans people. Then she goes to suggest that ".. the tendency to third-gender people stems from both gender entitlement and oppositional sexism."

Then it dawned to me. My experience and identity are far from that of trans woman. I could not settle for changing myself into a woman. I don't experience it that way. From one box - male, I would go to other box - woman.. No. I wish something else.

I realized there and then, that I am precisely that: a third gender.

Although I am happy that nowadays there are so many books of trans-issues, I feel in myself a growing opposition against Americacentrism. San Francisco or Chicago is not the whole world.  What I miss... is.. for example.. is Russian, or Indian point of view. I have a feeling, that I might identify more easily with the hijras, than with western transgender people.

We have a typical western mind - patriarchal, masculine-dominated world view.. we are grown in it... and I would like to change this. Mahatma Gandhi used to say, western people need not to come to India, they can find India from the west, by becoming Indians in their own countries.

I can not believe that ->-bleeped-<-, and SRS, or HRT are a final answer. I mean; becoming less masculine, and more feminine is good step forward, it requires courage, and I respect it as such.. A bigger change would be de-westernization; becoming Indian in Gandhian style.

I would like to understand more about the way of hijra, and be able to compare it with this modern western ->-bleeped-<-. The modern way seems to me sometimes to be more like endless talk of NGO policies, organizational issues and pragmatism.

How did people do transitioning before modern medical science? How to do transitioning in Old-School methods? What is a hijra, what have they been, and what they are now? What is the third sex? How is the experience of eunuchs, compared with modern transsexuals? Is there ethical or moral point of view? ...

May be, this desire to be in "girl mode" is similar than the desire to fall in love with a woman. It is such a sweet feeling. I would like to have it for ever. My heart would like to suck sweet honey, like a bee... I feel I should get over that craving. May be it is just an addiction. Not sexual... but erotic; autoerotic.. or subconscious/emotional.
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spacial

Speaking only for myself, transision was quite unusual when I was younger. But I assume that, before transision, people like me did pretty much what I had to do.

Bite my lip, and pretend to be a man. I had to watch other males, how they behaved and try to emulate that. It didn't work of course. I was generally just very lonely.

I assume that, generally, people like me just had to do their best.

I suppose we could equally ask what people did before all sorts of modern medical techniques became available.

I haven't changed now. Too many complications. But knowing it is available and more acceptable, at least the prospect is there.

One day.
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Pica Pica

India is not a place to go to escape westernisation - it's rushing to catch up with western countries with their full support. Also, the plight of the Hijira is not a good thing, they are often victimised and ghettoised and are easily exploited.

There is no shangri-la unfortunately, unless we build one.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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ativan

Quote from: Pica Pica on August 11, 2010, 04:44:26 PM
There is no shangri-la unfortunately, unless we build one.
When do we start building? ;)
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Protasekretis

Quote from: Pica Pica on August 11, 2010, 04:44:26 PMIndia is not a place to go to escape westernisation - it's rushing to catch up with western countries with their full support.

I just said that Mahatma Gandhi has some great ideas. It is well worth to read his writings. 

Quote from: Pica Pica on August 11, 2010, 04:44:26 PMAlso, the plight of the Hijira is not a good thing, they are often victimised and ghettoised and are easily exploited.

I was trying to ask what hijra's have been before, and what are they now, and how has the westernization and modernization of India affected their situation. I am not expecting to find a present-day paradise, but I guess things were better, for example, in 13th century.

In the pages of People's Union for Civil Liberties (PUCL) there seems to be a report, from which one can get some idea: Human Rights Violations against the Transgender Community: A PUCL Report
A Study of Kothi and Hijra Sex Workers in Bangalore
—Sept. 2003

Quote from: Pica Pica on August 11, 2010, 04:44:26 PMThere is no shangri-la unfortunately, unless we build one.

I believe that by mere physical or mental activity we will only get heart disease, high blood pressure and sclerosis. More important is to become aware of our emotions, and soul, and stop repression and violence against the self.

I would say that India is intensive place. There is more bad, and more good, than in west. In west, it tends to be little lame and neutral, and things remain hidden. Dynamism and progress (may be also hope..) is in rising economies like India. 
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noeleena

HI,

I  wont try & address your ?? s .

What we need to do is first accept our selfs for who we are regardless of what our body looks like .

where western thinking has gone wrong is every thing has to be put in a box & it all has to fit , & if it does not then kill it dig a hole & bury it so we dont have to think about it any more .
so we who are different try & show others that we can be different & yet be accepted .

Does it work  depending on your attatude how you get on with people & so on .
Now some wil disagree with me on this & depending on the county .im a Kiwi from N Z
  Iv been accepted first as a person 2nd as a woman with a male background & has it worked very much so,  if not & im not in a so called box im just accepted for who i am & both male & female .
Im involved with groups of people who dont care,
   im just one of the group so if we join in with others we can show we are not so different that we cant be accepted.may be age has a bearing im 63 ,
  i dont pass as a full woman or a male i sit nicely in the middle & thats where im happy .

...noeleena...
Hi. from New Zealand, Im a woman of difference & intersex who is living life to the full.   we have 3 grown up kids and 11 grand kid's 6 boy's & 5 girl's,
Jos and i are still friends and  is very happy with her new life with someone.
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