Question for non-androgynes

[ZaidaZadkiel]

So, non-androgyne folks, what do you think androgynes are like, based on your interactions with ag peoples ?

I'm really curious, actually, to have an outside view of the androgyneness.

For example, my boyfriend always tells me I'm the most unique and special (and love love etc) person in the world.
Also, since I'm an androgyne, I have trouble to discern where the "I'm special cuz he loves me" and "i'm special cuz I'm androgyne" things overlap and differ.

So, yes, an external appraisal of what are androgynes like, if you would please, thanks

[spacial]

I suggest that, to your second point, where the two overlap, they probably do so almost entirely.

In any case, you are both really fortunate.

Not really sure about the first, not really sure what androgyne is suppose to be.

My wife was frequently taken for being a male when we first met. My little sister, who was 5 asked me, who is that boy? He body shape is quite male, her head is definately very male. She was quite strong and certanly had that serious intensity that is more typical of young boys than young women.

I don't think anyone has ever commented on it, but that is probably because she is a very dominant character. (Ever seen a cat do as it's told?).

Hope this helps.

[Fencesitter]

I'll answer a bit more generally, concerning genderqueers, but maybe that helps you as well.

I used to date a person with male body, mind switching between male, female and neutral mode (behavior changed only a bit between the modes).
I had two good friends who switched between male and female mode (but their behavior was always neutral).
I had one flatmate who was androgyne (but male behavior). 

And I think they're awesome. Not just cause they're genderqueer, but this added something to their personality and social interactions. Like they had a bigger repertoire of possible reactions, more different tools to deal with various situations. And did not try to force themselves into clichés based on gender but did what felt right for them, which made them very authentic people. With, say, like an inner peace in themselves.

Of course, there are also cisgendered people who are like that, and I'm also sure that you can find lots of androgyne jerks or who picked the "worst of both worlds", or closet androgynes who might behave not better than any other closet people. But being androgyne really seems to help people being authentic if they're not ashamed of it but live true to themselves. I have learned a lot from these people though I'm more trans than genderqueer, relaxing about gender roles etc. And personally, I am very attracted to the mixed or in-between aura, personality and the flexible behavior of androgynes etc.

In my next life, I don't want to be trans or cis, but in-between, androgyne or bigendered or something like this. I think it's a great gift. Though it can be difficult at times, but I don't want a too easy life, would be boring.

[rejennyrated]

As a chameleon I'm not sure if I qualify to answer this or not. I think I exist on the blurry borders between several definitions that exist on this board. So maybe to some I am a weird kind of AG even if that is not how I generally define myself. 

To me it depends to some extent on how the person concerned comes over.

If they just seem to be happy and unselfconsciously being naturally themselves I think it's great. The only time I would ever have a problem is if someone comes across as being too militantly anything, and that also applies to cis, trans, IS, AG, gay, bi, or any other of the millions of epithets that someone could apply. If you are something, you shouldn't really have to proclaim that fact too loudly, just being it should be enough. In my experience most people will pick up the vibes and treat you accordingly even if they don't always understand the technical definition of what you are, and in most cases the best thing is to just roll with it.

I think many AG's that I know, are instinctively more comfortable with themselves than other people that I know so that makes for easier friendships.

I have no problem with anyone's presentation or self definition. The only thing which really does irk me is when someone uses their position to somehow denigrate or diminish people who own another identity. For example someone from the lesbian community who hates trans people.

So overall I think AG's rock.

[cynthialee]

I can't even come close to making a generalized statement about androgynes but as I live with one and love hir fiercly I think I have a handle on some of this topic.

What are andros like? : (well my andro spouse)
Physicaly a blend of male and female, an odd beauty not seen in many people. Breasts and a beard and emotionaly a walking duality. I can count on the strength of men and the emotional conection of women in hir.
She is both pretty and handsome in one person. A unique sexuality that is a blend of male and female desires. Wisdom of the genders flows easily from hir lips. S/he sees both sides of the coin so to speak and that brings an understanding of men and women that helps to maintain our relationship on an even keel.

Those are my impressions of my androgyne spouse.
Had you told me I would love an androgyne a few years back I would have looked at you wierd and walked away. Now I can not even imagine living my life without hir.

[ZaidaZadkiel]

Could you give me a concrete example of the mixedness ?
Like, when did you learn that they were AG ?

I suggest that, to your second point, where the two overlap, they probably do so almost entirely.

Indeed, but if pressed, what do you think the differences would be ?

I don't think anybody knows what androgynes should be like, other than, mixing traits of both genders.
But there are some general traits which can be inferred. But from the inside it looks quite different, really.

I used to date a person with male body, mind switching between male, female and neutral mode (behavior changed only a bit between the modes).

Were you able to tell in what mode was this person ?
Have you felt this authenticity on other people ?
Also, life ain't easy for anybody, I don't think so.

As a chameleon I'm not sure if I qualify to answer this or not.

Yes, you do. If anything, because you already answered, lol

Lots of people want to tell everybody else what to do, what they think works, but it's ok, cuz that's what works for them.
What I don't like, is when they tell you what ought to work, instead of what they actually do. Because they haven't experienced what they're saying.

Also, Thanks! We do and you rock, too!

I can't even come close to making a generalized statement about androgynes

Yes, that's the hard part, because of the edge cases. AGs being an already edge case.
It's really worth it to try, at least for me.
There's very little information out there about it, and it also seems to much more broadly applicable than just GID stuff.

And at least in my case, I've noticed that wisdom to flow from my lips and from my hips. It's pretty awesome, or so I'm told.

...

One of the things that bothers me is that on the myers briggs type indicator, there's a classification INFP, and both AGs and INFPs share a lot of traits, with gender identity being a free variable.
I don't know if most INFPs are AGs, I don't think so, from my observations on forums like personalitycafe.com
It seems that most AGs are INFP, but there are also some AGs who are not INFP.

So another question for non-AGs,
What are the things that bother you about AGfolks ?
Like, the things which frustrate you from their interaction ?

[rejennyrated]

Lots of people want to tell everybody else what to do, what they think works, but it's ok, cuz that's what works for them.
What I don't like, is when they tell you what ought to work, instead of what they actually do. Because they haven't experienced what they're saying.

Jolly good job I always follow my own advice then, and never worry too much about how others want to perceive me.

[Fencesitter]

What is INFP? 

Could you give me a concrete example of the mixedness ?
Like, when did you learn that they were AG ?

I met my partner the first time and like could read almost right away that they were in-between or switching modes. It was something about the look in their eyes and their mannerisms, but the personality staying the same (no "split personality" if you want). I could often not read their current mode, though, as they "slided" along a lot and therefore often sent fuzzy messages. I kept my impressions to myself, though. Much later though, my partner came out as genderqueer to me (we both did not know that word though).

Maybe I can read gender queerness/"pre/non transitional transness" cause I'm between GQ and trans which helps detecting people who are at least a little bit similar to me. And moreover, I'm bi and sexually/romantically attracted not only to physical traits but also to male and female or something-else "aura" and can tell these auras apart (I'm not into esoterics but cannot describe that better). It's not about femininity/masculinity, but something else, much more fundamental. I'm not sex- or genderblind when it comes to sexual/romantic attraction, it's just different things that appeal to me depending on the sex/gender. Maybe that's why I seem to have an instinct for detecting a "male body but female/mixed/genderwise neutral aura" (or female body if you want so), which is what I call my personal "transdar".

Plus for me it's hot as hell when another person's body's sex message differs from their aura gender, more than if both are congruent. (Though I can also find people of the latter kind very attractive.) I also feel more at ease hanging around with such people and I think my "transdar" works as about 1/3 or my friends were genderqueer or trans even long before I ever started transitioning and seeking contacts to other transsexual people. The others I knew were these people's partners, close friends or some of my classmates etc. 

And it always went this way, I meet the person, my transdar goes BEEEEEP!!!!!, we make friends and long after that - tadaaa! - they come/came out to me as trans or genderqueer no matter if I come/came out to them as well.   I don't say my "transdar" (which also includes a "genderqueerdar") is 100% percent accurate, but it works pretty well and I seem to have trained it both consciously and unconsciously as I get personal benefits from it (friendships with closer bonding, plus interesting people to courtship).

Have you felt this authenticity on other people ?

Yes, about anyone who was "out" about something which is not generally accepted by society. In this country, it was people who had polyamory relationships, BDSM people, gays and lesbians, bi people, but also Christians (being really into Christianism gets you a lot of ridicule here), Muslims (not liked either) etc. It could be anything, and of course not each member of each group. I think it takes courage to say "I'm XXX" if XXX is not socially accepted, and once you're honest about such a thing, you might end up being honest about any other things as well.

What are the things that bother you about AGfolks ?
Like, the things which frustrate you from their interaction ?

I'll answer this about genderqueers in general,  as I don't know enough AG people personally to judge.

I don't like it when they get elitarian, when they say or think they are better than other people or superior to them or the only ones who can grasp the whole world though they just have a different perspective and not either on each subject. And sure it's special as most people are not genderqueer, but not special in the sense of superior, but rather lower number of people. I think though it can have many emotional advantages being genderqueer.

I don't like it when they think or say everybody's like us, but other people just don't admit it.

[ZaidaZadkiel]

What is INFP?

There is this thing called MBTI, which is a psychology test to evaluate four spectrum of data:
Introversion (I) <-> Extroversion (E)
Intuition (N) <-> Sensing (S)
Feeling (F) <-> Thinking (T)
Judging (J) <-> Perceiving (P)

www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp
http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFP.html is opposite of
http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ESTJ.html

If you need more information, PM me.