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Passability

Started by Plix, August 17, 2005, 08:56:36 PM

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Plix

If I take hormones for 2 years, starting at age 20, can I still pass as male after that time? Or will I only be able to pass as female?

If I were to decide I do not want to make a complete transition, could I still take hormones (which I'd probably want to do regardless) and be passable either way? 
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stephanie_craxford

Quote from: Plix on August 17, 2005, 08:56:36 PM
If I take hormones for 2 years, starting at age 20, can I still pass as male after that time? Or will I only be able to pass as female?

I don't believe that hrt can significantly change facial features either way.  A male face will still look male except it may be a little softer, and a female face will still look female, except for beard growth.

QuoteIf I were to decide I do not want to make a complete transition, could I still take hormones (which I'd probably want to do regardless) and be passable either way? 

It's possible, but no one can predict that.

Steph
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Terri-Gene

QuoteIf I were to decide I do not want to make a complete transition, could I still take hormones (which I'd probably want to do regardless) and be passable either way?

Yeh it's possible, you could be a MAN with tits or a woman with a C**k, don't feel bad if some like myslef wouldn't be seen around you though if thats they way you want to present.  I just can't associate with the idea behind it. and I know a few others who have even deeper problems with it.  People who like it that way can do as they please, but I got other people to hang out with I can understand better.

I know, I know, I'm a bigot, but I'm a straight forward one.

Terri
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Jessica

Terri? Bad Morning?  ???

Quoteand be passable either way?

Basically are you asking if you can take hormones and blend as either or?  I don't think it is possible to blend / pass as both, I think it is sort of one or the other and it has nothing to do with how you look, it has to do with society.  If you are too androgenous (which seems to be what you are after) then people won't really know what to do when they meet you and it will make them really uncomfortable.

I am just guessing though, I have no idea.

Jess
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Terri-Gene

QuoteTerri? Bad Morning?

Not anymore then usual I guess, just a kind of reaction to such questions I should be a little more sensitive to others about in a support type setting.  I realize there may be some who may have legitimate reasons for such things, it is just that it makes no logical sense to me and seems to me that one with such notions is looking for a way to hide when things aren't fun, and I can't identify with that. 

To me, you either have an commitment to who you are or you don't, and those that want it both ways simply don't, but they insist to be called "SHE" or if the other way around, "HE".  On the streets I would do no such thing, sorry about that (not actually), but after all, It is just a part of who I am, and believe it or not, i'm not a liberal, "perfect world" type and I live in a one or the other world and do not actually accept the gender spectrum idealology though I recognize there are many who do.  I wouldn't mind it so much though if they called it something besides He or She, since thy commit to niether.

My opologies for being offensive in this setting, it was disrepectful to Susan and the people who inhabit her community.   

Terri
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Shelley

Hi Terri,

I think your post had merit it just lacked a little subtlety. I think I can see where your coming from. If you are TG and taking steps to change factors that occur at birth why would you want to regress.

As a CD I would have thought that you would walk down our road until sure and then if a change is still wanted it would be made from a position without doubt.

That may be an over simplification but as I undersatand it you can come out and live as your chosen gender before you make more permanent decisions. This would also be the reasoning behind therapy I would have thought.

Happy to be challenged on this thinking as it helps my understanding of the big picture.

Shelley
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Terri-Gene

Quoteas I undersatand it you can come out and live as your chosen gender before you make more permanent decisions. This would also be the reasoning behind therapy I would have thought

Exactly Shelley.  The whole idea of RLT is to find out if the life and it's restrictions in comparison to the birth gender life is one you can actually life with, especially in the context of other peoples opinion of you for not being of the birth gender you are representing of.  It is not so much a test of your being a woman, or a man, as it is a test of your ability to function as a woman or man in the real world environment despite what people may know about you.

Many who were so very positive about it before RLT quickly found out it just wasn't worth it to them and backed out before point of no return from hormones or surgery.  It isn't as simple as passing and all those kind of issues, it is being able to deal with the constant aggrivations women have to deal with daily, or of adjusting to the real world of men, along with the added stigma of some or all prople knowing you are TS.  For those who have never lived full time in a complete and total sense, never posing as male, or woman, not for a job, not for an appointment, nor any other things or issue in their lives, they simply can not know cowpattie about what it all really means and the conviction and resolve it takes to see it through.

Many seem to miss the point altogether of what they imagine and what is reality in a real time interactive world, where you don't always have a choice on where you go, where you shop and who your neighbors are and where you can't always face the world with wigs, makeup and padded enhancements and still declare yourself woman  in the case of MtF's with the same conviction as in a forum.  Try it in a getto district and see what I mean.

I simply take it a little to personal when I hear or read things which seem to suggest trying to circumvent important issues in life to achieve an easier way out then what actually exists and not having to live by the specific rules and consiquences of a clear cut decision but still want to claim the identity.  for those who truely are Gender queer and Identify as Gender Queer, I have no real problem other then a lack of understanding.

Anyway shelley, I should not have stated my feelings as I did, and know that even while I may not understand the motivations of CD's such as yourself, I can and do respect you and believe that you are addressing a need in yourselves that I simply can not recognize because of a total preoccupation with something so different in nature.

Terri



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Shelley

Quote from: Terri-Gene on August 21, 2005, 03:18:09 AM

Anyway shelley, I should not have stated my feelings as I did, and know that even while I may not understand the motivations of CD's such as yourself, I can and do respect you and believe that you are addressing a need in yourselves that I simply can not recognize because of a total preoccupation with something so different in nature.

Terri


Thanks Terri,

I think that you may be surprised to know what statement means to me.

I actually think that your first and the beginning of the second response is very important as these issues are not flights of fancy when the subject of HRT and SRS are discussed. I believe from an outsiders point of view that the concequences are very serious and need to be brought up occasionally.

I also think your just the lady to remind us :)
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ginaroxx79

Quote from: Terri-Gene on August 21, 2005, 03:18:09 AM
Many seem to miss the point altogether of what they imagine and what is reality in a real time interactive world, where you don't always have a choice on where you go, where you shop and who your neighbors are and where you can't always face the world with wigs, makeup and padded enhancements and still declare yourself woman  in the case of MtF's with the same conviction as in a forum.  Try it in a getto district and see what I mean.

Yeah tell me about it Terri! I spent a couple of years in the San Gabriel Valley: Baldwin Park, Azusa, Covina. For those of you who are not familiar with the area, let me just say it definately qualifies as GHETTO! As in "Let's ghetto the hell outta here!" Let me tell ya, things can be a lot different when dealing with the gang-banger and druggie types. How you carry yourself and how you present can actually be a matter of life and death. I mean that quite literally. I knew a couple of people who got beaten up pretty seriously, and they got off easy.

For me that in-between "grey area" is definately not an option. Beyond the safety issue, that's just not how I identify at all. I'm not trying to pass judgement, it's just not for me. I've started down my road and I'm going to see it thru to the end. Passability is very important to me. Not that what others think about what I'm doing effects how I feel, but I can call myself anything I want and if nobody believes it then it's just lip-service. Just because I say I'm a purple sea-monkey doesn't make it true.

Nevada has definately been an experience. It has solved some problems, but also brought a whole new set to the table. I think I've done an ok job of adjusting, though I do tend to come across as kind of cold sometimes. That's just the way I've dealt with things in order to survive, let alone be successful.
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Terri-Gene

#9
QuoteNevada has definately been an experience.

Yes Gina, Nevada is definately an experience and education in self confidence and adjustment with it's concervative Ranching and Mining mentality in the more rural districts, which is about everwhere outside of Clark County (Las Vegas area). Where the settling of differences is more of a personal thing rather then a legal one.

And as for Gettos,  a couple of years ago I moved out from home to Rio Linda, where I waited for the gun shots and police sirens to calm down before walking to the corner store at night, but managed to achieve a kind of "understanding" with the gangbangers who dominate that area, and presently live on the edge of North Highlands, which is recognised as one of the worst gang and drug areas in the Sacramento area and must walk directly among these people anytime I enter a convienience store near my home, but again, nobody has pressed me, though I have at times while standing in line, handed 12 or 18 packs of beer to one of them standing behind me to hold and save my place in line while I went back into the isles to get something I forgot.  They seem confused by me at times, but are always good natured in thier dealings with me.  But then I never show any sign of considering myself unusual in any way, and return any stares with level eyes, though I often wear tops which reveil very masculine and affilliatory Tats, which along with other features that are easily distinquished as masculine at close proximity, do thier part to identify me as being TS rather then birthed.  I tend to dress in much the same fashion as Old School MC Bitches and I guess compaired to some of those, I could be considered somewhat attractive as a woman if viewed in that context.

Terri


Posted at: August 21, 2005, 05:24:31 PM

Some do not fear for our lives according to where we live. This is a country where you can live in supposedly the safest place on earth and be done in by violence, only the people who would take action against you are in hiding or not known to you, in other areas, you can see violence all around you, but you can easily see and identify who most of them are, from that point, it is simply a matter of who you are, your experience, and what you know of relating to the more violent people.

Violence is something you can not escape and it comes in many forms other then guns and edged weapons.  As for myself, I grew up in and around gang culture, I understand these people and because of that understanding, am probably as safe among them as you are in your area.  Some will even come to my aid if needbe, without even knowing me, simply on thier own principle of "heart" when they see it demonstrated.  Some simply recognize me as one of their own, even if they do have objections to what they can see that I am.  I kow carreer criminals who I would trust with any and all that I have based upon that very private understanding.

In the general rank and file of things, this area has more to offer me then "safe" zones where I couldn't get a job and nobody would pay me any respect, and I couldn't get the assistance I have found here for my transition purposes.

Just depends on whats important to you and what you can handle I guess.

In the original Tarzan by Edgar Rice Burrows, Tarzan was "rescued", brought back to civilization as a teen and educated in the finest schools in Europe.  He was a rich and powerful Nobleman, highly intellegent and possessing the power of nobility.  He could have almost anything he wanted, yet he chose to give it all up and return to the Jungles of Africa to live among the wild beasts.  When asked why? he stated that in the jungle he was among friends and that the real jungle was in civilization where he could never tell where danger was lurking.

Terri
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Terri-Gene

#10
Forget Tarzan. All that was just the kind of crap I was talking somewhere else about needing to get over and leave leave behind, it's meaningless these days.  The real and biggest eason for living in getto areas?  The most obvious and most compelling.  Its cheaper,   You can lease or rent properties that given the same features would cost hundreds more per month in a better district,  That can account for a savings of a couple or three thousand a year right there before any other cost cutting, so, if you can get along with the people and happen to be a little less excitable then some others, it makes sense when your whole objective is saving money.  Just don't have or keep any valuable items around your home.

Keep firmly in mind that places like Nevada are not known for ganstas in the street, rather it is hard working, hard fighting, hard loving working men and women who just happen to resemble a type called redneck, but if you earn their respect, they will stand with you anywhere.

In getto districts, it can be a little iffy,  Again, it is possible to earn respect in such areas and be relatively safe anywhere, anytime, and as for "guns and artillary" and such, well, generally speaking, that kind of thing is more related to intergang warfare and such or things like drug deals gone bad, it is not common to just walk down streets shooting people you don't like the looks of, and as for things like stealing cars, breaking into your house and such, hey, they tend to go into richer neiborhoods for things like that, as there is more value in it.  So it's not as bad or as personally violent as it may sound.  Many Transgender people should definately not go into such places as yes, they would be targets, but some can fit in there, just as easily as any of the other inhabitants, as such areas are made up of outcasts and misfits and it is possible to make friends and just live and let live for some.

Terri
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tinkerbell

#11
tink :icon_chick:
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Chynna

Terri you posted:

Quoteit is just that it makes no logical sense to me and seems to me that one with such notions is looking for a way to hide when things aren't fun, and I can't identify with that. 
Not trying to argue with you..just wanted to throw my 2 cents in if I may...is it really up to anyone but the original poster to make logical sense of??

I mean why are there so many people trying to rationalize every action of a person everytime the post soemthing that seems to make no traditional sense...one thing you must admit to if you yourself are rational is that irrationalities must exist..there will always be imperfections or abnormalities in even the most perfect mathematical equations there are always annomialies.

Shelley,
QuoteI undersatand it you can come out and live as your chosen gender before you make more permanent decisions. This would also be the reasoning behind therapy I would have thought.
People... sorry TS people do it all the time some even have SRS only to find it was the biggest mistake of there lives...So you can "Come out and live as your chosen gender prior to any therapy or making a permanent decision.
Terri
QuoteExactly Shelley.  The whole idea of RLT is to find out if the life and it's restrictions in comparison to the birth gender life is one you can actually life with, especially in the context of other peoples opinion of you for not being of the birth gender you are representing of.  It is not so much a test of your being a woman, or a man, as it is a test of your ability to function as a woman or man in the real world environment despite what people may know about you.

There are a heap load of individuals who do not follow the perimetters laid out by our medical society. It seems to me to almost be a norm that a lot of people here think there is only one right way to be Transgender or to make a transition...So many people here have this mentality that there are ABSOLUTLY without deveation only one way to transition....therapy...followed by a letter...followed by a visit to a Endo...followed by test...followed by HRT..followed by more therapy...followed by a wait time\ grace period....

May be in a realistic perfect world this is the way things work but we dont live in that perfect little world we live in a world full of flaws and imperfections a world were rules are broken more often then they are followed...again i mean no disrespect nor am I trying to intentionally argue any point with you I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in on the matter and remind everyone that everyone follows there own different path

Chynna Doll
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Terri-Gene

Chynna wrote:

QuoteNot trying to argue with you..just wanted to throw my 2 cents in if I may...is it really up to anyone but the original poster to make logical sense of??

I mean why are there so many people trying to rationalize every action of a person everytime the post soemthing that seems to make no traditional sense...one thing you must admit to if you yourself are rational is that irrationalities must exist..there will always be imperfections or abnormalities in even the most perfect mathematical equations there are always annomialies.

Well, one thing is for sure.  You, I and everyone else here has the right to feel anyway they want about any situation.

What I feel though is that if you call yourself a woman, but live 99% of your life and 100% of your work life as a male, something is wrong with the woman part of you?

QuoteSure, if irregularities mean nothing to you, it makes no difference what you do does it?
There are a heap load of individuals who do not follow the perimetters laid out by our medical society. It seems to me to almost be a norm that a lot of people here think there is only one right way to be Transgender or to make a transition...So many people here have this mentality that there are ABSOLUTLY without deveation only one way to transition....therapy...followed by a letter...followed by a visit to a Endo...followed by test...followed by HRT..followed by more therapy...followed by a wait time\ grace period....

May be in a realistic perfect world this is the way things work but we dont live in that perfect little world we live in a world full of flaws and imperfections a world were rules are broken more often then they are followed...again i mean no disrespect nor am I trying to intentionally argue any point with you I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in on the matter and remind everyone that everyone follows there own different path


Whatever that has to do with what I had to say, make it a little shorter so it is clearer to my simple mind in relation to what I was talking about .....


Terri
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Chynna

You agreed with shelley when she stated\posted
QuoteI undersatand it you can come out and live as your chosen gender before you make more permanent decisions. This would also be the reasoning behind therapy I would have thought.
I was just stating that this isn't always the case there are exceptions to this scenerio

Chynna
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