An odd question for trans guys that pass as male?

[shiinee]

I don't pass at all right now, and to be quite honest I am rather sexist myself.  I will turn to rude stereotypes and jokes to distance myself from womanhood.  And I sometimes mis-articulate my hate for being treated as a woman, as if it is hate for women.  Since I think it's pretty awful of me, I just try not to discuss anything about sex or gender with people I'm not out to. 

The only time in my life when I could get past my discomfort with women was when I was able to be out to everyone around me, and people stopped expecting me to act like a woman.  I started to love, appreciate, and reach out to women, once I didn't feel that I was getting locked into a female role.  Nowadays when I get called a woman, it feels like an insult, and that itself encourages thinking that women are less worthy or respectable than men are. 

Sorry if this post is rude, it is just the sad truth about me.

[Sean]

I tend to think about sexism far more in terms of differential treatment of people (as opposed to specific comments - because rude comments people make are rude, regardless of sex).

While I don't like witnessing sexism in general (and will speak up in certain situations), I've always been most interested in figuring out when *I'm* being sexist and trying to work around that. There is a thing called subconcious or hidden bias, where we don't even realize we are acting in a gendered way (e.g., calling women by first names and men by last names in work environments).

To give one example of a bias of mine, I've coached both boys and girls, and I have coached young women. In that role, I am hyper-aware of not being sexist (and that others aren't either). Yet as an athlete, I have an inherent sexist sense that I can't seem to shake. If I see a new guy and a new girl, I know that I feel deep down as though the girl will not be very good until proven otherwise, whereas I give the guy a complete blank slate. While this might be statistically true based on the sports I play, I wish I could give everyone a pure blank slate starting out. Does it really matter? Not really, because I fairly quickly learn to judge people based on how they perform, not their gender or sex. I am not playing professional sports or competing at an elite level now or anything like that, so my general "coaching" nature takes over anyway: everyone should get opportunities, etc. Still, I KNOW that I can't turn on my competitive switch against women the same way I can for competing against men, and I know what I assume to begin with.

So rather than getting upset at the abstract of sexism, I focus on the real ways it affects me and those around me on a regular basis.

[Arch]

sexism does not equal misogyny

Good point, but it depends on which definition of sexism (and maybe misogyny, too, I guess) you are using. I guess the classic definition of the former is a belief that men are better than women. This belief does not necessarily translate into words or actions (or feelings of hatred or dislike).

"Misogyny" is a problem term, too. It can refer to hatred OR other "negative" feelings. A couple of people in the trans community have accused me of being misogynistic or at least bordering on misogyny; they clearly meant to imply that I hate women. But I don't; I only fear and distrust most of them. (When I get to know a gal fairly well, the fear and distrust dissolve away.) So I much prefer to use the term "gynophobia" to refer to my feelings. It is more specific, more accurate, and less freighted with negative cultural baggage. But when I use the term, a lot of people say, "Huh?" So I don't tend to use it.

[BloodLeopard]

"Misogyny" is a problem term, too. It can refer to hatred OR other "negative" feelings. A couple of people in the trans community have accused me of being misogynistic or at least bordering on misogyny; they clearly meant to imply that I hate women. But I don't; I only fear and distrust most of them. (When I get to know a gal fairly well, the fear and distrust dissolve away.) So I much prefer to use the term "gynophobia" to refer to my feelings. It is more specific, more accurate, and less freighted with negative cultural baggage. But when I use the term, a lot of people say, "Huh?" So I don't tend to use it.

Gynophobic is a totally different thing. I have another friend who is like that due to abuse from mother and sister. Being afraid of something doesn't mean you're sexist, you're just scared.

[LordKAT]

Being sexist is showing a preference for one sex over the other. If I hate men, I am not misogynistic.(sp?) misogyny being a fear/hate/distrust of women makes favoring men not fit.

That is just one example to give you an idea why they are not the same, they do not mean the same thing at all.

[Wolf Man]

I am purposely not reading any comments on this thread and only the OP.

I am essentially a sexist myself. I do not believe that the sexes can be equal due to just downright biology and I believe that the majority of women do not truly want equality. There are too many things that go "for" them, even things they take for granted, that they would not let go of.

As relates to the post I had maybe a couple years in my life where I felt offended by such things, but this was in my "tweens". At the time I had no real grasp of the true nature of things and thought that things could be equal. It was like this during the time after I started puberty, came out as a lesbian, and before I began to consistently pass as a boy (which was a great time before I figured myself out at the end of high school).

[aidengabriel]

before really figuring out that i am transgender, i came out as lesbian. and even then sexist remarks didnt bother me. sexist jokes actually made me giggle a bit... if its all fun and games that is.

[tekla]

How does it not?

Well one (like any 'ism') is institutionally based, the other is personal development issue.  Also, while misogyny is based in irrational fears and notions, sexism as a social system is based on rational thought. 

[GnomeKid]

I don't pass and haven't really started to try yet and I still don't consider sexism because I don't think of myself as a girl so for some reason it's never really come to my mind as an issue that affected me personally.

+1 except that I do pass. 

[BloodLeopard]

Being sexist is showing a preference for one sex over the other. If I hate men, I am not misogynistic.(sp?) misogyny being a fear/hate/distrust of women makes favoring men not fit.

That is just one example to give you an idea why they are not the same, they do not mean the same thing at all.

I don't really follow your line of thought. Sexist is thinking the other sex is inferior. Not a preference... that's sexual orientation.

Actually. I don't even know what you're saying in your entire post. Since you said "hate men = not misogynistic". Maybe I should just give up here since we're apparently speaking different types of English.

I think you're confusing words.
Gynophobia = irrational fear of women
Misogyny = hate/looking down at women and is a chosen mindset

[Arch]

Gynophobic is a totally different thing. I have another friend who is like that due to abuse from mother and sister. Being afraid of something doesn't mean you're sexist, you're just scared.

I think I just said this...didn't I?

[Jeatyn]

I may have the wrong end of the stick but I think I understand what LordKAT means.

You can believe women are better than men, and still be a misogynist...also sexism can go both ways, it's not always towards women.

[Teknoir]

Hmm... can't say I've been affected by sexism since transition. As expected, given I'm a guy and all 

The only thing close to sexism I see are silly jokes about stereotypes - and the girls back give as good as they get. It's all in good fun.

What I do see, and what does irritate me, is double standards.

What peeves me is this idea that you can't joke about women (it's sexist), but joking about men is fine.  Either they're both open, or neither.

Another thing that bothers me is this idea that women should be pandered to with "chivalry", AND seen as equals. Excuse me for being a non-PC blue collar thug, but that does not compute. It's either one or the other.

I can't stand the politically correct "lowering of the bar" to get women into male dominated industries. There are one or two females in my company that are only there because they are female. I have absolutely no respect for them, and honestly - I'd like to see them fired. They can't do the job, and it's a safety risk bad enough to potentially kill people. I've seen men fired for less than they've done.

That said, there are a few women around who do the job very well - and I respect them as such.

I'm often called sexist and misogynistic for my viewpoints. If that's the case, then so be it.

[LordKAT]

Jeatyn has it quite right.

I don't really follow your line of thought. Sexist is thinking the other sex is inferior. Not a preference... that's sexual orientation.

Preference is simply preferring one over the  other, not necessarily regarding sex. I did not say sexual preference.

Actually. I don't even know what you're saying in your entire post. Since you said "hate men = not misogynistic". Maybe I should just give up here since we're apparently speaking different types of English.

Same english, misunderstanding yes. I mean that misogynistic does not mean hating men. simple.

I think you're confusing words.
Gynophobia = irrational fear of women
Misogyny = hate/looking down at women and is a chosen mindset

I am not confusing words at all. You are repeating what I said as being correct but in different words.

My point was that sexism can go both ways, misogynistic cannot. They therefore cannot mean the same thing which is how your post seemed to show your thoughts.

I am sorry  if that is not what you meant.