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The Great TSA Pat-Down Smackdown

Started by Natasha, December 10, 2010, 10:33:13 PM

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Natasha

The Great TSA Pat-Down Smackdown

http://ts-si.org/guest-columns/27981-the-great-tsa-pat-down-smackdown
G. Terry Madonna & Michael L. Young   
Friday, 10 December 2010 09:00

Cementing his image as a friend of the traveling public, TSA Director John Pistole recently proclaimed,

    "If they don't like it, they don't have to fly."

The it, of course, is TSA's new explosively controversial policy of subjecting any air traveler refusing to undergo an electronic body scan to a mandatory pat-down. In case anyone missed his point, Mr. Pistole added in a later Commerce Committee hearing, "If you're asking, am I going to change the policies, no, I'm not going to change those policies."
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Muffin

also...
"The TSA pat-down controversy has produced a defining moment in American democracy. It is a point in the age of Obama in which we find out if a single federal agency has become so powerful and so unaccountable that the clear voice of millions of Americans goes unheard and unheeded."

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tekla

has become so powerful and so unaccountable that the clear voice of millions of Americans goes unheard and unheeded

Oh hell, Congress has been like that for decades now.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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V M

Yeah, No-one likes terrorists... But also, no-one likes having their rights violated either and the TSA is just going too far with things

But also, we just happen to be the country everyone likes to attack at the moment so we have to put up with allot of crap

But anywhere you go, the wealthy treat the rest of society like hamsters on a wheel

The rest of the world likes to pretend that their poo doesn't stink... But it does
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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pixiegirl

Quote from: Muffin on December 11, 2010, 04:20:43 AM
also...
"The TSA pat-down controversy has produced a defining moment in American democracy. It is a point in the age of Obama in which we find out if a single federal agency has become so powerful and so unaccountable that the clear voice of millions of Americans goes unheard and unheeded."

Lol... see, this I find funny. How long did it take some people to forget that this is a Bush policy? Good luck trying to roll it back though, anyone who tries to get it under control is going to get branded an anti-america pro-terrorist child murderer (probably with arab commie pinko thrown in there too). Once you've frightened people enough to start this it's nearly impossible to get the lid back on the box.
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Britney_413

I do not believe in trading freedom for security. It is not the American way. It was absolutely horrible what happened on 9/11 but if you tell 300 million people to give up their freedoms because 3,000 lives were lost then you are actually doing a disservice to those who perished by letting the terrorists win. The terrorists win when they do something that causes a nation to change their ways. By giving up our freedoms we have given the terrorists what they wanted. It is also a slippery slope. No matter how much you improve security, there is always a way around it. If people tolerate these aggressive pat-downs now, then the next step could be body cavity searches. Are people going to allow someone's hand inside their vagina or rectum to make sure they aren't carrying an explosive device? What about children? Should an old man who just happens to have a badge be allowed to fondle a 5-year-old's genital areas for "safety?"

If you aren't willing to accept possible risks of an activity then don't engage in that activity. I don't believe that everyone else should have to suffer because of the actions of a few. Cars are statistically more dangerous than planes and cars can be used in terrorism. Am I going to be required to pat down my friends and family every time they get in my car? Am I going to be required to go through checkpoints every day to make sure my car isn't packed with TNT? There is a place you can go to that has tons of security with little freedom if that is what you want: prison. Those of us who choose freedom understand that with freedom comes responsibility and potential risks. Almost every time the government uses the phrases "safety" and "security" what they really mean are "managing" and "controlling." I do not want the government trying to protect me from myself (i.e. with seatbelt and drug laws for instance).

Speaking of airline security, I'd feel safer on a plane where a bunch of passengers were packing guns than on a TSA-"secured" flight.
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Muffin

reminds me of a song..... it doesn't matter what happens and it doesn't matter how far it goes we'll always lay down and take it. As a body of people we've lost the ability to truly stand together and fight against the BS. We can't even accept people like us with unwanted birth defects... or how ever you want to paint it. But saying that more power to those that try.
...
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VeryGnawty

"He who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security." - Benjamin Franklin
"The cake is a lie."
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lisagurl

A federal judge declared the Obama administration's health care law unconstitutional Monday,

It just takes time to reinstate our freedom.
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regan

Who here has actually been through the new scanners?  I have.  If you haven't then all you can talk about is theory and whatever a few muckrakers want you to think.

I flew home for thanksgiving, they weren't even running them the day I flew home.  On the way back they opened them up when the family in front of me at security with more bags then kids, and they had a lot of kids backed things up at the old scanners.  I CHOSE to go through becuase I didn't feel like waiting in security - no one forced me to do anything.  Step in the scanner, step out.  Wait, wait some more.  "Copy one anomaly"  Aw crap.  "Sir, I need to feel around your waist" (I was in male mode).  Is there anything metal maybe you forgot to take off before going through the scanner?  Profusely apologetic, he felt around my waist and sent me on my way.  I still beat the family out of security.  If that's what it takes to fly safely, I'm all for it.

What not to do?  I'd suggest not wearing anything underneath your clothing that might be considered an "anomaly".  And if you do get a pat down you likely will have a chance to explain things.  Be honest, be polite.

Finally, most of the so called horror stories are just that, stories.  Video evidence disproves a number of people's claims, in other cases no records could be found of them even flying the day of the supposed incident.  Some stories are true, but they are few and far between.  Above all else, remember TSA agents are no happier about having to feel peoples butts, inner thighs and various other body parts then you are.
Our biograhies are our own and we need to accept our own diversity without being ashamed that we're somehow not trans enough.
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lilacwoman

The Right to Bear Arms was a good move but the right to carry bombs on planes is not.   I'm with John Pistole.
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Muffin

I think when they make comments like "if you don't like it then don't fly", it comes across as sounding well...kinda stupid I mean for a lot of people they don't "choose" to fly but have to for work or whatever reason.. so to say that is yeah......stupid. It just proves they don't have anything legit to say to those that disagree with it.
Even if the experience is seemingly harmless it's still an invasion of privacy because they are virtually stripping you and someone is seeing that image. That is an invasion no matter how you sugar coat it.
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pixiegirl

Quote from: lisagurl on December 13, 2010, 03:05:41 PM
A federal judge declared the Obama administration's health care law unconstitutional Monday,

It just takes time to reinstate our freedom.

Yes, this is incredibly relevant to a thread on airport security procedures.  :-\
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Britney_413

Almost every time the government tries to infringe on freedom, invade people's privacy, or otherwise control behvaior, it is done in the name of "safety" and "security." A free citizen rarely needs government involvement in his or her daily life. Time and time again, it is demonstrated that the government is extremely inefficient at providing the things it claims to provide. Speaking of security, the U.S. government with its excellent military can't even remotely secure its southern border (nor the northern one). If the terrorists had not even been granted visas to come to the U.S. then 9/11 would not have happened. I'm not a fan of extreme de-regulation of corporations nor am I a fan of complete anarchy with regards to the individual. However, the majority of the time an individual, a group of citizens, or a corporation or other entity can do the same job that the government does on something much cheaper, faster, more efficiently, and with less consequences. Put a bunch of armed citizens on the Mexican border and I bet the border would suddenly become much more secure. Put the responsibility of airline security in the hands of the pilots, other crew members, airline owners, and also have passengers put each other in check and I bet airline travel would be safer and more secure. I haven't heard any citizen argue that they don't want to be safe on an airplane. Most, however, feel that there is a more efficient, effective, and less freedom-infringing way of doing it than a federal beauracracy employing donut eaters whose main focus is their next lunch break.

The Obamacare comment was off-topic but relevant in terms of discussing freedoms. For those outside of the U.S. who haven't heard about it the bill includes requiring Americans to buy health insurance vs. paying for healthcare in other ways. It is all the same to me. The government wants to increasingly get more and more into people's wallets, homes, cars, computers, jobs, schools, health, and in the case of TSA in people's pants. Every time the government "gives" you something it has the power to take that away. Think about it. In fact let's take a look at TS healthcare. In America, most insurance won't cover our treatments. However, like anything else in life we can save up money and get our surgeries, etc. when we are ready. The system sucks but at least if you have the money, you get your surgery and other treatments done. I read complaint after complaint on this board from those living in Canada or the UK where many of these treatments including SRS are free of charge. Yet people right here on this board write about waiting months just to see an endo, a year or more to finally get hormones, and many many years to get approved for SRS as well as having to go through endless departments and other redundant hoops to get what they need done. There is a reason why: government control. Whether it is airline security, funding for SRS, or anything else when you put government in control, it puts you out of control, period.
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tekla

For those outside of the U.S. who haven't heard about it the bill includes requiring Americans to buy health insurance vs. paying for healthcare in other ways.

In other words, we are trying (and failing I might add) to provide healthcare for all of our citizens, not just the rich ones.  You know, like your country does.  Shocking I know.  But just look what happened when major industrial powers like Canada, Japan, Germany and France did this.  Why the very next day they flew out of the G-20 and landed smack-dab right next to Bangladesh and Mali on the old world economy chart.  Now the factories of Germany lay idle, the streets of Paris deserted, it's shops shuttered the lights turned off and Japan once one of the world's leading economies is now merely one of the the world's leading economies.

FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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pixiegirl

@tekla yep... pity it doesn't seem to be working out, isn't it.

@Britney_413 I started to reply, then realised I'd typed more on healthcare than the entire commentary on this thread so far, so I'm going to start a new one somewhere else for it.






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AmySmiles

Quote from: tekla on December 14, 2010, 09:00:04 AM
For those outside of the U.S. who haven't heard about it the bill includes requiring Americans to buy health insurance vs. paying for healthcare in other ways.

In other words, we are trying (and failing I might add) to provide healthcare for all of our citizens, not just the rich ones.  You know, like your country does.  Shocking I know.  But just look what happened when major industrial powers like Canada, Japan, Germany and France did this.  Why the very next day they flew out of the G-20 and landed smack-dab right next to Bangladesh and Mali on the old world economy chart.  Now the factories of Germany lay idle, the streets of Paris deserted, it's shops shuttered the lights turned off and Japan once one of the world's leading economies is now merely one of the the world's leading economies.

Well, with all due respect those countries haven't been spending (a lot) more money than they take in.  I'm happy to allow social programs if we can get them without being taxed at ridiculous rates or quickly accelerating to national bankruptcy.  But I also think social programs wouldn't be as needed if people had more of their own money to spend or save in the first place.

For what it's worth Britney, I agree with you on most counts.  I know how loved libertarian-ish viewpoints are around here, so I just keep my mouth shut most of the time.
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lisagurl

Quote from: pixiegirl on December 13, 2010, 09:43:19 PM
Yes, this is incredibly relevant to a thread on airport security procedures.  :-\
=======
Your freedom is at stake if they can force you to buy insurance and government controlled medicine, they can force sexual abuse on you anywhere including going into the mall. Next step is a chip implant under your skin. What will follow that? You have no privacy, not on the streets, not in your car, not at the doctor, not at the airport, not at school, not at your job. Yes is is very important and very relevant to this thread.
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lisagurl

QuoteWell, with all due respect those countries haven't been spending (a lot) more money than they take in.

Those countries are in worse shape when you compare their GNP to their debt than the U.S. is.
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