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Interview for a job abroad - do I need to disclose?

Started by shortstackftm, December 25, 2010, 03:38:41 AM

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shortstackftm

Hey guys,

Im a Aussie guy and have in my last two jobs told HR about my transion (due to birth cert saying F) -its never really worried me because Australia has anti-discrimation laws (but Ive never had any issues anyways)

I pass completely as male (im a ftm) and have a web interview next week with a company in the USA. My question is when (or should) I inform them on my transion? If I get the job it will require me to share a male dorm room (I dont have any issues with this - as I said I pass fine). I wasnt even going to mention my transion but my passport says F - so they will probably ask. I dont want to mention in the interview though and not even get a chance at the job but I dont want to seem like I am lying either - any suggestions? Does the US have the same kind of anti-discrimation laws as Aust?
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rejennyrated

I believe the situation in the USA varies from state to state, but from what I read they are caught in a time warp. Back in the 1970's we used to look over the pond with envy at our American sisters and brothers as they used to slip effortlessly under the radar and thus got accepted by default at a time when our UK law pretty well insisted on outing us at every turn.

40 years later the rest of the world have all moved on and they have moved backwards.

In federal terms NO there is no anti discrimination law, there would have been, but ENDA failed to get through their congress, and indeed in some states discrimination seems to be widespread and almost actively legally encouraged.

If your birth cert still says "F" (why?) then you really need to change that before you even think about thinking about thinking about thinking about any emigration. As afar as I am aware Australia like the UK has laws allowing for such a correction to be made.

The process of emigration without such a change will certainly out you very comprehensively, and indeed if Australian laws are anything like UK laws, whilst you can get the certificate changed while living there, it becomes a total ARSE to do once you have left the country.

I will make you a prediction - which may be wrong - that letter "F" will almost certainly lose you this job. So my advice is to do whatever you need to do to get it changed before you try again.
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shortstackftm

Hey mate,
to get my birth cert changed I need to get a hysto - which will cost around $5000AU which I dont have yet. I want it done but wont be able to afford it for atleast a year. I have had top surgery but they want both ops done to change the paper work :(

Thanks for your input though
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rejennyrated

Quote from: shortstackftm on December 25, 2010, 04:32:19 AM
Hey mate,
to get my birth cert changed I need to get a hysto - which will cost around $5000AU which I dont have yet. I want it done but wont be able to afford it for atleast a year. I have had top surgery but they want both ops done to change the paper work :(

Thanks for your input though
Oh - shame - that sucks. In the Uk our law now allows change before surgery providing there is evidence that you intend the change to be permanent.

I would say though that unless you are very lucky your best bet will be to stay in Aus until you can get the hysto done and then you will be good to go!

I wasn't trying to be negative by the way... I think its great that you are ambitious for yourself, I just think that you will make things a lot easier by somehow completing the change first.

Lets hope that my prediction is wrong though.  :)
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AlexCallende

Quote from: shortstackftm on December 25, 2010, 03:38:41 AM
Hey guys,

Im a Aussie guy and have in my last two jobs told HR about my transion (due to birth cert saying F) -its never really worried me because Australia has anti-discrimation laws (but Ive never had any issues anyways)

I pass completely as male (im a ftm) and have a web interview next week with a company in the USA. My question is when (or should) I inform them on my transion? If I get the job it will require me to share a male dorm room (I dont have any issues with this - as I said I pass fine). I wasnt even going to mention my transion but my passport says F - so they will probably ask. I dont want to mention in the interview though and not even get a chance at the job but I dont want to seem like I am lying either - any suggestions? Does the US have the same kind of anti-discrimation laws as Aust?

I would suggest disclosing this to the HR people even BEFORE you leave.  The unfortunate reality is that given that this is an overseas hire, the company would have to process your work permit prior your departure.

In the end, you would want to work for a company that would respect your situation at all cost.  There is no point is working for them if they have issues with it.

Cheers and good luck!
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Renate

I would tell them when they start getting serious about you.
Many companies will have no problems with this; those are the kind of companies you want to work for anyway.

This dorm situation might be a sticking point.
If you were MTF instead it would probably be a deal-breaker.
Depending on where you are going the company might find you a single.
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Alexmakenoise

Most states do have good anti-discrimination laws.  The problem is that if employers want to discriminate, they can fire you for any other reason.  In fact, they're not even required to have a reason.  And ignorance is wide spread.

Therefore, I would not recommend telling them during the interview.  Let them get to see who you are and what you have to offer before adding this detail.  Tell them after they have decided to hire you - when it comes time to do the paperwork.  Describe it as a minor technicality that won't affect anything; you're just letting them know in order to be thorough because of the inaccuracy on the passport.

Another option would be not to tell them, and only disclose if they notice the F on your passport and ask you about it.  It's quite possible that no one would notice, and that if they did, they'd assume it was a mistake and would only contact you to let you know that your passport had been misprinted, in which case you could explain.  The downside to this is that you would risk coming across as deceptive, and deceptive behavior would be a good reason to revoke an offer of employment. 

However you tell them, make sure it is mentioned briefly as a minor detail that will not affect your performance.  What people really dislike is when someone from a group with protected status chooses to "make a big deal of it".  If they see that you're just like everybody else aside from this one thing that would go unnoticed except that you do mention it when absolutely necessary, there's a good chance they'll be able to put aside any prejudices they might have and see you for who you are.
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spacial

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tekla

I believe the situation in the USA varies from state to state, but from what I read they are caught in a time warp.

Oh it's a lot more complex and complicated than that.  And, to tell the truth, we kind of like it that way.  We're very much NOT an Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer place.  Laws vary not only from state to state, but from local to local.*  Which is why I'm always telling people to move, since it is not, and does not have to be like that everywhere.  And since we believe that all politics is local a lot of us prefer it that way.  And the lack of a Federal Law means very little as it would do nothing to help the fortunes and status of trans-persons living in places like SF, Berkeley, and Minneapolis with very liberal laws, and, in truth and reality, it ain't going to do much to change anything in the rural South either.

1. Corporations are bound by three sets of laws, the federal which doesn't matter much (to even mount a federal case would take years and years and a couple hundred thousand dollars in lawyer fees), and the laws of both where the business is being conducted and the laws of where the corporate HQ is.  So if the job is in SF, and the corporate HQ is in the Bay Area you won't have much of a problem, if the job is in Salt Lake and the corporation is HQed in Idaho it might not be so good.

So, the real question is what are you going to put on the federal forms for emigration and your job?


* - The other night at our holiday party at the theater it was (as it's been for a few decades now) perfectly fine to sit and spark up a big Phatty and be talking with the boss while toking on the SourDesiel, but if you wanted to smoke a cigarette you had to step outside because all the people smoking pot would bitch so loud that god would hear them about your ciggy.  Needless to say, in a good portion of the country it's pretty much the exact opposite.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Sarah B

Hi Shortstackftm

I would not tell them anything period and the only people I would tell would be a potential partner or doctor and even then I would think twice about telling them.  However, given the circumstances, sometimes one might have to tell them, but that depends on how much you want that job and how much you wish to remain stealth.

The Australian Passport Office Website has a section called, Sex and Gender Diverse Passport Applicants.  This will help you in deciding what you are able to do.

All states and territories allow you to change your gender marker on your birth certificate, however surgery is required in all cases.  You need to consult the Birth, Death and Marriage Act where you were born to see what you have to do.

I hope the above information helps you.  Take care and all the best in getting the right gender marker and your dream job.

Kind regards
Sarah B
Be who you want to be.
Sarah's Story
Feb 1989 Living my life as Sarah.
Feb 1989 Legally changed my name.
Mar 1989 Started hormones.
May 1990 Three surgery letters.
Feb 1991 Surgery.
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marissak

#10
Based on what you have written, I would say do not disclose that you are trans during the interview process.

After you get the job offer, there could be situations in which you might need to disclose.

Your employer might need to file a work visa petition with the US government if you will be required to work in the US. Your gender per your visa must match the gender in your passport. That is the only point at which you might need to write F in the appropriate section of the visa application form. Even in this case, most employers file the work visa petition via attorneys, who really have no time to look into these details. It is very likely that your employer's attorneys will not realize that you are trans because they have a lot of petitions to file and very little time.

Also, you can be F per your passport & visa, but M per your employment records. The only risk of doing this is that you might need to come out to an HR manager if your employer uses old verification methods. Each employer cross-checks the US Social Security database to verify the legality of each employee. This is often done only once, at the start of employment, but could be repeated annually. In most cases, your name, US Social Security number or Tax ID number, address location, and date of birth are the data fields used for this verification. However, a few employers use outdated method which includes sex/gender also. If your employer does this, they might check with you about the gender mismatch in the social security verification. Gender mismatch is not a major issue, as long as all the other details match. All you need to do is to come out to the one HR manager at your employer who checks with you if they detect a gender mismatch which will only happen if they use the old verification systems.

In simple words, even if you need to disclose at some point, it is not going to be before you get a job offer. So say nothing about your gender during the interview process until you get the offer. Focus on your accomplishments and your capabilities, which are the things that your employer would most likely want to know about you. After you get the offer, do what you find is appropriate.

Discrimination laws exist and vary by state. However, enforcement is difficult. You cannot prove anything in most cases. There are smart ways of laying you off a job such that you can never bring it up in court. It is best to be stealth and come out only to those who you know will not ruin what you have going for you.

It also depends on the area of the US and the people who work with you. Just as you do not share you other personal details with everyone, be cautious about sharing your trans status with others.
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lisagurl

Quoteto get my birth cert changed I need to get a hysto

In the U.S. you need a social security number to work. They demand birth certificate and other ID to prove your identity including sex. The employer has got to match the #SS number data so they will find out. Some places have strict rules on dorm use. It is also strongly advisable to check out any employer that offers include dorm facilities. Some harbor slaves.

Nobodies: Modern American Slave Labor and the Dark Side of the New Global Economy by John Bowe
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JenAtLast

I don't think I would disclose.  You are supposed to be hire on your credentials and ability to "sell yourself" in the interview.  What has gone on with your gender is not their concern unless it happens while you are employed by them.

Better to be hire, establish a reputation and then possibly be discovered later.  Folks would probably judge you by what they know of you.  But up front in the interview, it can kill your chances before you begin.  Just my $.02.
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Nero

Can you change the passport without a hysto? Many places will accept your passport in place of a birth certificate.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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