I'm afraid I have to insist on the equal chance to be heard on the "s/he" thread. While, it is great for everyone to inject their thoughts and then issue me warnings / locking the thread so I am unable to respond.. . sadly, it simply wont do.
Like all my posts, I don't find the need to insult or break forum rules (well, other than the "we don't want to hear what you say" rule). So, there would be no real justification for deleting things (other than the rule mentioned before).
Also, I think it is important to cover a key issue before we start.
There is a difference between someone being "insulting" and a person being "insulted". Within the thread I was not intentionally insulting, simply some found themselves being insulted by my viewpoints.
Within a tiny forum community, it is great you have the ability to silence those who's ideas or thoughts you don't like or upset you. But, sadly, the world has many different ideas and viewpoints. ..it is kind of important to be able to discuss these viewpoints without being insulted and without degrading to what we saw happen in the s/he thread.
I find it troubling that so many are unwilling to have a calm open discussion with different points of view. I had no idea that the trans community was apparently only open to its own clique ideas on the subject.
QuoteYou wrote in another post that you just found out about transsexuality/transgender a week ago.
Haha, no. I have known of transsexuality / transgender most my life. What I discovered recently was that the real possibility of transitioning through modern medicine. Previously I had thought it was an issue of "you are stuck with what you are born with".
QuoteSo out of the 32 chromosomes, you are going to select one to determine if a person is male or female. What about the Intersexed. Men with XX, or women with XY. And what of those that are XXY. Your argument does not hold water. It is just as bad as selecting Bible verses to prove a point. It does not work.
Hmm, actually, this would make your argument "not hold water". My argument was that the spectrum of the trans community is so large, that simply using "male" and "female" is not adequate. While you may feel male and female is enough for your personal situation, what about (as you say) "those that are XXY"? Should they need to "pick a side"?
Looking at this situation only through what works for you is shortsighted.
QuoteNot only are you telling other people what their "real" gender is and making massive assumptions about their motivations
Nope, again, this is a misunderstanding (which, is a lot easier to clear up when dialogue is allowed to continue). I am not attempting to tell anyone what their gender is. I am just saying the language is lacking words for the middle ground (unless you think an androgynous person NEEDS to decide to be called a "he" or a "she"? I'm sure they would find that offensive as neither word is really adequate to describe their self identified gender).
Gender is how you identify, and it is up to the individual to decide (how can someone pick that for you?). Sex is the body (which, by and large, can be adjusted to match the gender).. . but, beyond that, are genes. .. which (like I said) can not be changed (though, it seems like many people would rather pretend they don't exist).
Don't read this as me saying "you must" do anything. That you are genetically male or genetically female (or both) has no impact on what your gender or sex must be. ((though, I'm sure someone could take up the argument about the link between genes and sex, but I'm not touching that here)).
QuoteYou're new, and so it's not surprising that you're spouting off the transphobic crap you've absorbed from society.
Now, this strikes me as very odd. What exactly is transphobic about anything I am saying? Actually, what I am saying is very open to a wide range of people (more-so than the limited binary construct that everyone else seems to be fighting for with the "male" and "female" identifiers .. .which leaves the "middle ground" folk out in the cold).
QuoteActually the world is with me. When I walk down the street, buy an icecream from the 7/11, buy clothes or go to a film, people think that I am female.
There isn't any reason for them to assume that I am anything else.
Well, great for you! Sadly, not everyone is like you. There are a large number who do not fit so neatly into the binary "male" and "female".
QuoteEveryone here has the right to self define as they choose. That right simply IS NOT up for discussion or debate.
I am not arguing the right of someone to self define as they choose. Perhaps that is misunderstanding. I am simply saying we are missing a few words for those who don't so easily fit into the polar opposites of the gender spectrum. Maybe a MTF who does not feel the need to take SRS and considers themselves 70 percent female and 30 percent male. Who is not trying to be "all girl", and does not feel that adequately describes their "middle ground" self identification.
To take this to a more personal level. I identify along the same lines (which is why I am considering HRT). That you find my searching for a more adequate language to use as "offensive" and "transphobic" is very.. . troubling.
Like I said in the thread itself, these are just considering things out loud and very much a "rough stage" thoughts. I even said trying to clump everyone on the trans spectrum under one label had issues that didn't seem like it quite fit.
But, apparently everyone is far more interested in an irrational crazed "burn the outsider!!!" than actually calmly discussing an issue with differing viewpoints. It actually caught me a bit off-guard and makes me consider what the trans community is really like (along with if I would really want to belong to something like that if I were to move forward). Anyway, things to think about.
