Estro-Maxx Ad on Saturday Night Live

[long.897]

I am just curious, out of all of those defending this skit how many are full time or plan to go full time? I am not trying to prove a point but I need to wrap my brain around this.

For whatever it's worth, I intend to live full time as soon as possible; at this point though, it simply isn't. 

[n00bsWithBoobs]

I am just curious, out of all of those defending this skit how many are full time or plan to go full time? I am not trying to prove a point but I need to wrap my brain around this.

Yesterday at work and walking home I felt like a walking target and was wondering who had seen it. I am a bit mortified knowing that at least some of the people I work with have seen it. It caused me significant anxiety.

I do plan to go full-time, if that helps. ::shrug::

Here's the thing:
- Men dress up as women ALL the time on the SNL. While that doesn't target us as a community, I am certain that there are plenty of feminists who take offense to it.
- There is currently a cast member who dresses up in blackface to portray President Obama and (ex)Governor Patterson. Patterson also happens to be blind and it's a running joke that he doesn't know when he's on or off camera.
- There's a song parody that makes fun of premature ejaculators
- Eddie Murphy made fun of Buckwheat from The Little Rascals and, inadvertently, those with speech impediments
- John Belushi made did his Samurai bit as a running character, making fun of Japanese culture and playing up stereotypes
- Eddie Murphy stars in a "White Like Me" sketch as a black man trying to find out what white people do when black people aren't around. To prep, he reads a lot of Hallmark cards and watches a lot of "Dynasty"

Those are just a few of the examples of the sketches over the years where a group of people were singled out and offended either directly or indirectly. Maybe you're offended by Estro-Maxx and maybe you're not, but that's just humor. If I thought that they were being especially malicious about the sketch, then I'd just not watch. I might have even written a letter. But, they weren't. It was good-natured ribbing and I look forward to the next time when we get to laugh at ourselves a little bit and not take everything so seriously.

For some personal advice, hon, let me please express that I'm sorry you've been feeling anxious about this. I really am. As someone who can empathize about transitioning, I know anxiety doesn't help mitigate a mixture of other emotions that are bubbling to the surface. Unfortunately, messing with gender is incredibly taboo in our society. You could choose to see this SNL sketch as a horrible travesty against our kind and withdraw further away from mainstream society, thus giving power to the taboo and not address it, or you could embrace it, say that it's not your cup of tea, but you could see how others might find it funny, and then be a shining example upon whom others base their opinion of transgendered people. If experience has taught me anything, the harder you fight against something, the more of the opposite force you'll encounter (much like my fight against my own gender identity). Just go with it, smile, or shrug your shoulders and move on.

[CaitJ]

I still think its funny and I am qualified to say that as I have transitioned 3+ years fully and post op since last year.

The thing with the add is that it shows men, not transsexuals. None of us would still have the full beard and go down to the gym would we? of course not. That's what makes it completely and utterly ridiculous and its the ridiculous nature of it that makes it funny.

Even having this explanation given as to why it is supposed to be funny still doesn't twig comprehension for me as to why this is humourous.
I suppose that, following this theme, it would be funny to have obviously able-bodied people pretending to be cripples? Or people who obviously don't have cerebral palsy pretending to have no control over thier co-ordination and speech?

I guess I feel a little like Lt. Commander Data here, unable to comprehend basic humour.
Perhaps someone could give me an analogous skit that IS known to be funny that uses the same mechanism to generate humour?

[Sean]

You could choose to see this SNL sketch as a horrible travesty against our kind and withdraw further away from mainstream society, thus giving power to the taboo and not address it, or you could embrace it, say that it's not your cup of tea, but you could see how others might find it funny, and then be a shining example upon whom others base their opinion of transgendered people. If experience has taught me anything, the harder you fight against something, the more of the opposite force you'll encounter (much like my fight against my own gender identity). Just go with it, smile, or shrug your shoulders and move on.

I just want to say how strongly I disagree with this. I am not going to rehash the "is it actually funny/satire?" issue. I do have a problem with the idea that you can EITHER find the skit offensive and withdraw OR you could "embrace it' and be a "shining example" by being silent - what a bunch of false choice bunk. How about you have a problem with the sketch and speak out against it in a strong and rational way, as an individual or as part of a collective effort, that this type of "comedy" belittles the struggles of trans people every day?

It's a good thing that the pioneers for civil rights didn't have your attitude that the harder you fight something, the more push back, so why bother fighting...let's just smile and take our lumps and move on.

[Nigella]

Anyone know where I can buy some Estro-Maxx? Seriously, I was only joking.

Stardust

[Shana A]

I've posted a number of blogs about this, both pro and con, in the News Forum Opinions section. Some folks might enjoy reading them.

I don't at all advocate censorship, however it is also an expression of free speech to protest. If one doesn't approve SNL's humor (which I personally find to be mostly sophomoric), sign petitions, write letters, participate in boycotts, etc. These things might not pull the skit off the air, or even result in an apology from SNL, however they are effective tools in educating people about the issues of trans discrimination.

Z

[n00bsWithBoobs]

I just want to say how strongly I disagree with this. I am not going to rehash the "is it actually funny/satire?" issue. I do have a problem with the idea that you can EITHER find the skit offensive and withdraw OR you could "embrace it' and be a "shining example" by being silent - what a bunch of false choice bunk. How about you have a problem with the sketch and speak out against it in a strong and rational way, as an individual or as part of a collective effort, that this type of "comedy" belittles the struggles of trans people every day?

It's a good thing that the pioneers for civil rights didn't have your attitude that the harder you fight something, the more push back, so why bother fighting...let's just smile and take our lumps and move on.

I understand your concern, but I didn't say just be silent. I suggested saying that it wasn't your sense of humor. However, I would strongly suggest against "speak out against it in a strong and rational way." Not only do you show yourself to be a target because people know EXACTLY how to push your buttons, but you feed a perception that we're utterly humorless as a group. There are better ways to make a point about your objection and I think there is a delicate balance between being loud and outspoken against certain things and just being pushed around all the time. That balance is really hard to maintain. I feel that good examples of this would be Booker T. Washington's ideas about integrating former slaves into society, or sit-ins of the civil rights movement. It was gentle objection.

[Sean]

I understand your concern, but I didn't say just be silent. I suggested saying that it wasn't your sense of humor. However, I would strongly suggest against "speak out against it in a strong and rational way." Not only do you show yourself to be a target because people know EXACTLY how to push your buttons, but you feed a perception that we're utterly humorless as a group. There are better ways to make a point about your objection and I think there is a delicate balance between being loud and outspoken against certain things and just being pushed around all the time. That balance is really hard to maintain. I feel that good examples of this would be Booker T. Washington's ideas about integrating former slaves into society, or sit-ins of the civil rights movement. It was gentle objection.

I don't make myself a target when I'm calm and rational, because I don't have any buttons being pushed here. Don't know if you read my earlier post, but the problem isn't that we're humorless. It's that some people expect satire to have a joke other tahn the fact of transsexual existence. Most people aren't going to think I'm humorless for saying, "Hey, here is an example of satire, here is why this doesn't fit that definition..." Some people will. But so what. I want people to understand why satire is not the same thing as making fun of people.

There is a delicate balance. But the slaves did NOT get integrated into society like Booker T. Washington wanted, and there is no difference between sit-ins and the type of non-violent protests we're talking about (that zythyra listed).

[n00bsWithBoobs]

There is a delicate balance. But the slaves did NOT get integrated into society like Booker T. Washington wanted, and there is no difference between sit-ins and the type of non-violent protests we're talking about (that zythyra listed).

One could argue that this was largely the fault of Reconstructionists who charged in and forced reform on a society still trying to heal from the shock of Civil War.  Washington's idea of proving to society that the former slaves were a hard-working, skilled, valuable asset to the community was a great idea. But, I digress.

You are free to do as you like. People who have a notion or an idea about something don't get their minds changed by in-your-face steadfastness, which is why I can't stand most Christians. If you feel that it helps our cause, go for it. I support your right to do so.

[Sean]

One could argue that this was largely the fault of Reconstructionists who charged in and forced reform on a society still trying to heal from the shock of Civil War.  Washington's idea of proving to society that the former slaves were a hard-working, skilled, valuable asset to the community was a great idea. But, I digress.

You are free to do as you like. People who have a notion or an idea about something don't get their minds changed by in-your-face steadfastness, which is why I can't stand most Christians. If you feel that it helps our cause, go for it. I support your right to do so.

One could argue that the reason integration didn't happen is a lot of reasons. Many would point to the economic competition for low wage labor as a critical element in bringing about Jim Crow. It was not about race so much as dealing with class issues after the end of slavery. But while I'm sure we'd enjoy the history convo, we're a bit on a tangent here. 

I think the big difference I see in my approach and the approach you're taking is who the audience is. I think you are envisioning protesting in a way that shows that trans people can't take a joke to an audience that doesn't CARE that they are offending the trans community.

My audience in speaking up against this is not actually SNL. I don't find most of SNL funny and haven't in years. At best, they will take one joke and form a 3 minute skit around it. Often, there isn't even a joke there at all.

But that's not the point here, and it's not my target. My target is the people who are watching SNL or seeing the clip on youtube, or who may not even be watching SNL but have laughed at other "hahaha t***nies are funny" and are not aware that this type of skit IS offensive to transwomen, and who don't know what it really is like to be discriminated against for gender identity.

People who are uneducated about a subject and by and large aren't affected by it are often ONLY called to action by what you call "in your face steadfastness" and what I'd call, "raising attention to the subject."

People are - for the most part - interested in their own lives, their own families, their friends, their jobs. Many do not even know that it is legal in most of the States to fire transsexuals for being trans or to not rent to transsexuals or the rate/risk of violence. When they are laughing at "haha, man in dress wants to be a girl," I want them to think for one minute about the actual quality of life and treatment of transwomen and decide if they are laughing WiTH transsexuals or at them.

I view activism as an important part of finding natural allies as well as figuring out how to 'vote with your wallet' so to speak.

[Dana Lane]

I've posted a number of blogs about this, both pro and con, in the News Forum Opinions section. Some folks might enjoy reading them.

I don't at all advocate censorship, however it is also an expression of free speech to protest. If one doesn't approve SNL's humor (which I personally find to be mostly sophomoric), sign petitions, write letters, participate in boycotts, etc. These things might not pull the skit off the air, or even result in an apology from SNL, however they are effective tools in educating people about the issues of trans discrimination.

Z

And while practicing our right to protest and petition we are told by a lot of our own brothers and sisters to 'get over it' 'you are too sensitive'. Wow, a lot of support there. Some of us ARE deeply affected by this. I don't have to state the obvious that I am. My anxiety level has reached new heights (i suffer from anxiety but can normally keep it under control). Where the hell do we turn to for support? My head is seriously about to explode. The insensitivity and lack of understanding (in our own community) makes me sad.

I already walk around in fear on a daily basis because I have been publicly ridiculed more than once. I have suffered depression from it (though I bounce back faster than some). And to remind everyone (or if you didn't know it) 41% of ALL transsexuals attempt suicide at one point in their life. So I believe it is safe to say that a large number of transsexuals might be vulnerable to something like this. And as stated earlier some of us don't pass as well as others and are earlier in our transitions.

[Hermione01]

I don't find the skit funny in the slightest.  I don't watch SNL so I'm probably not used to their kind of humour.  I don't find Little Britain funny either.  I just don't get it. 

[valyn_faer]

I'm sure a lot of what I'm about to say has already been said but I'm going to throw in my two cents anyway.

I chuckled a little when I saw Fred Armisen running on the tread mill just because he makes me laugh in general. There's something about that guy that is just weird and makes me giggle. Even his picture on his wiki page makes me laugh. I'm rather ambivalent about this skit, though. On the one hand, SNL has never been about seriously offending any group. They've always made fun of stereotypes. Remember Schmitt's gay beer with Adam Sandler and Chris Farley? On the other hand, this certainly doesn't help to clear up misinformation or misunderstanding on the part of the masses. However, I'm honestly more bothered by other portrayals of us in the media than stuff like this; for example, an episode of CSI New York, in which a transwoman was murdered. When the crime scene investigators found the body of the transwoman in the men's bathroom they didn't immediately realize she's trans. They thought maybe she was in there for some hanky panky with a guy and things turned south. But then they "noticed" that her feet were big, her hands were big, and then the Det. Flack character used his pen to lift up her skirt to check, grimaced, and said, "Our Jane Doe is really a John Doe." This is profoundly more offensive to me, especially the whole checking under her skirt crap. The worst part is, this show would have been a perfect opportunity to at least somewhat educate the masses. They could have had the Doctor Hawkes character or Sid the medical examiner cite statistics on how likely we are to be victims of violent crimes, or they could have said something about the discrimination we experience, or anything. But they didn't. There's also a movie that recently came out called It's Kind of a Funny Story, in which a 16 year old guy, who is stressed out by his teenage pressures, checks himself into a mental hospital. There's an African American transwoman character in the beginning of the film in the hospital, but only up until the main character's mother and 5 year old sister visit, at which point the mother asks if he had made any friends and the 5 year old sister says, "Have you made friends with the ->-bleeped-<-"? She was standing behind the main character. The mother then said, "Oh, the ->-bleeped-<-..." in a shocked and disconcerted manner. After this, the trans character completely disappears. There is no explanation as to what happened to her or whether or not she was released from the hospital. Every other character has a reoccurring role, except her. It's like they included her only to make the trans joke and then got rid of her. To me, these types of portrayals are far more damaging than SNL skits. I'd be willing to bet a large portion of our society isn't even aware that we take or pursue hormone therapy. At least this somewhat broaches the subject.

[Nigella]

s

You are free to do as you like. People who have a notion or an idea about something don't get their minds changed by in-your-face steadfastness, which is why I can't stand most Christians. If you feel that it helps our cause, go for it. I support your right to do so.

O! what a shame, I know lots of great Christians and I'm afraid I'm one too, one of those born again one's too, so I've been born three times, lol.

Stardust

[Maddie Secutura]

And while practicing our right to protest and petition we are told by a lot of our own brothers and sisters to 'get over it' 'you are too sensitive'. Wow, a lot of support there. Some of us ARE deeply affected by this. I don't have to state the obvious that I am. My anxiety level has reached new heights (i suffer from anxiety but can normally keep it under control). Where the hell do we turn to for support? My head is seriously about to explode. The insensitivity and lack of understanding (in our own community) makes me sad.

I already walk around in fear on a daily basis because I have been publicly ridiculed more than once. I have suffered depression from it (though I bounce back faster than some). And to remind everyone (or if you didn't know it) 41% of ALL transsexuals attempt suicide at one point in their life. So I believe it is safe to say that a large number of transsexuals might be vulnerable to something like this. And as stated earlier some of us don't pass as well as others and are earlier in our transitions.

I'm well aware of the statistic.  I'm one of the bunch to have made such an attempt.  I'll admit it does sting a bit to be treated slightly differently after people find out I'm trans.  The outing inevitably occurred  due to the M having been on my license.  However I'm not going to single out SNL for a skit reflecting what a lot of people think already.  Honestly I chuckled at the skit due to its absurdity.  I won't tell anyone to get over it.  If you were offended then that's how it is and feel free to do something about it.  But be prepared to protest every time we are portrayed negatively in the media.