Verb or Noun?

[heatherrose]

That's not what makes you trans.

Having previously read and posted in a topic about Tai "Katoey" stewardesses,
"Katoey" being a third gender designation. I read the above quote and wondered to myself,
"Are some happy with being thought of as a third gender "somewhere in the middle" and at the same time separate?"

I think of myself as a woman born with incongruous primary sexual characteristics.
I am now on a path of physical transistion, with the destination being
an alignment of my psyche and my physical manifestation.

Do you consider yourself or aspire to be a member of a third sex,
a Trans, ->-bleeped-<-, T-girl/boy or any other T-variant?
If so, why?
If not, do you identify yourself using any of the above terms?
If so why?

[CaitJ]

No, trans is an adjective to me, it describes a part of what I am, but not the entirety.
For example, I am a white woman, a geek woman, a tall woman, and a trans woman. It's just a descriptor of one small aspect of me.
I am several nouns; I am a human, I am a person, I am a red-head, I am an artist.
But I am not 'a trans' 

[heatherrose]

Why do you feel it neccesary to identify yourself as a Trans Woman and not just a Woman?
Are you trying to set yourself apart from other women?
If you are, do you worry about whether you "pass" and or blend in with a group of women?
If so, why bother if you feel that you belong to a separate group or third gender?

[CaitJ]

Why do you feel it neccesary to identify yourself as a Trans Woman and not just a Woman?

They're not mutually exclusive. They're the same thing.
i.e. cis women are women, trans women are women.
Being a trans woman IS being just a woman 

[Janet_Girl]

Trans, to me, is as Cait said and adjective.  Just as a white woman, an Aries woman, a pagan woman.  Trans is a condition that can be corrected through medical transitioning.

I am a woman, first and foremost.  The trans part is just another way of describing myself, when it is needed.

[Kaelleria]

I've found more people in the trans community use trans/gender(ed) as an adjective and people outside the community use it as a noun or verb.
My grandmother thinks I'm transgendering, lol.

[VeryGnawty]

The only thing I aspire to be is myself.  Nothing else.  I don't really care what people call it.

I already have one label:  VeryGnawty.  And even that is one too many.

[heatherrose]

i.e. cis women are women, trans women are women.
Being a trans woman IS being just a woman

Perhaps in our little slice of cybersphere, as we toss trans-ideas back and forth and stroke each others trans-egos, this might be true.
But in the real world, identifying oneself as hyphen anything deliniates one as part of a specific and separate group.

I am not saying that it is wrong to identify oneself however one chooses. I am only curious as to the rationale of how one chooses to do so.
I myself prefer that those with whom I come in contact, know for a matter of fact that I identify myself as a woman and I do not allow the sitution to
become anymore confusing than it has to be by hyphenating my gender in any way. YMMV. 

[CaitJ]

Perhaps in our little slice of cybersphere, as we toss trans-ideas back and forth and stroke each others trans-egos, this might be true.
But in the real world, identifying oneself as hyphen anything deliniates one as part of a specific and separate group.

I have never identified as a hyphen-anything   
Pedantics aside, I only identify as a trans woman when it's relevant. Just as a black woman identifies as a black woman when it's relevant, a Jewish woman identifies as a Jewish woman when it's relevant and a cis woman identifies as a cis woman when it's relevant.
I hope that clears things up for you 

[heatherrose]

For example, I am a white woman, a geek woman, a tall woman, and a trans woman.

I am sure we can all agree what "white" is as well as "geek" and "tall" but what IS "trans"?

[CaitJ]

I am sure we can all agree what "white" is as well as "geek" and "tall" but what IS "trans"?

The descriptor for a person with a gender identity at odds with their coercively assigned birth sex 

[Kyndra R.]

In truth it's all a construct of each and others need to define, identify, and classify in order to order our worlds.  When I say our I mean everyone in this world.  We, each in our own existence, each with our own juxtaposition, we struggle to define ourselves.  Sometimes against what others would see us, sometimes against what we see us.  And then quite naturally we rebuke that which conflicts our sense of self both internally and externally to ourselves.  Every single living creature is guilty of that one to one degree or another.  You may think it cruel but it is true.  Think about the scale and magnitude of that systemic problem because it's burnt into each of our brains and only consciously can any of us subdue it. 

I have spent my entire life being painfully aware of myself and my incongruence.  I have peacefully settled on simply understanding, accepting, and at times forgiving myself.  I am a human,  I am a person, and although I look nothing like what anyone would expect I am very much a girl.

Kyndra
XXOO

[heatherrose]

Kyndra

Welcome and I thank-you for your input,
as I also thank all others who have posted here.
I understand your position of self acceptence.
There are many others here who understand also.
Again welcome.

[heatherrose]

I have never identified as a hyphen-anything   
I only identify as a trans woman when it's relevant....
a cis woman identifies as a cis woman when it's relevant.

Lack of punctuation aside trans-woman is a hyphenated something. 

I am sure we can all agree what "white" is as well as "geek" and "tall" but what IS "trans"

White is the color/ethnicity of the woman,
geek is the hobby/occupation of the woman,
tall is the stature of the woman
and trans is the of the woman?


If it is believed that I am making much ado over nothing,
why do some raise their hackles (as I know they do) at the mere thought
of someone attacking "their right" to identify themselves as trans
(which is not my intention) 

Other than in forums such as this and in a medical setting, when would it be
relevant for a woman to identify herself as "trans" or for that matter "cis"
If one is determined to be accepted as just any other woman, one negates their
own goal by identifying as anything other that just an other woman.

[heatherrose]

i id as trans now because i'm not on t.
but when i'm passing with hormones and have had top surgery and hysto,
don't need to see more doctors, i prefer to id just as a guy.

You can identify yourself anyway you choose, I wish you luck on your path and welcome you to our forum.

[CaitJ]

White is the color/ethnicity of the woman,
geek is the hobby/occupation of the woman,
tall is the stature of the woman
and trans is the ? of the woman?

The descriptor for a person with a gender identity at odds with their coercively assigned birth sex 
Just because it's not a simple description, doesn't make it any less valid.

If it is believed that I am making much ado over nothing,
why do some raise their hackles (as I know they do) at the mere thought
of someone attacking "their right" to identify themselves as trans
(which is not my intention)

I don't believe any hackles have been raised at all; this subject is rather a non-issue for most; it's kind of like discussing whether you want to be called white or Caucasian.
I also don't think anyone here sees a discussion on terminology to be an attack 

Other than in forums such as this and in a medical setting, when would it be
relevant for a woman to identify herself as "trans" or for that matter "cis"

Whenever she feels that it is relevant 

If one is determined to be accepted as just any other woman, one negates their
own goal by identifying as anything other that just an other woman.

Well, there's the flaw in your reasoning, this quote directly suggests you view the term 'trans woman' as something other than 'woman'. One can identify as a trans woman and still be a 'woman'.
The terms are not mutually exclusive; you are just as 'real' a woman whether you use the trans descriptor or not.
Really, the issue here is that you don't seem to view 'trans woman' as being as authentic as 'woman'.
Which is buying into the prejudices expressed by the people who oppress us and hate us.
It's important to break down that perception of non-authenticity.
As I said, a black woman is a woman.
A Jewish woman is a woman
A vegetarian woman is a woman
An octogenarian woman is a a woman
A necrophobic woman is a woman
A homosexual woman is a woman

So why can't a trans woman be a woman? 
Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?

[LordKAT]

I don't see myself as a third gender, I'm just a guy. I have the unfortunate circumstance of having a misalignment between body and soul. The trans term is the time of correction.

I do think that some see themselves as a third gender, sort of like the androgynes.

Unlike you ladies, I can't get as close to normal as you can, but I'm going to get as close as I can.

I get the feeling I didn't answer that very well. I'm not sure how to make my point clear however.

[CaitJ]

I never heard the term cis-woman outside our community

It's in common use in feminist circles, inclusive groups and any group that recognises all forms oppression 

[rexgsd]

Well i call myself male.
But until i can fix certain physical parts of me that are basically birth defects and are personally interfering with my life as a male, i'm also a trans-male.

I guess one could kind of see it like how one would call a horse with a hurt leg a lame horse.
Of course no one really would go out of their way to say its a brown, 5 year old, bronco or w.e.,
they only mention 'lame' since it's a certain problem with the horse at the moment that requires attention to be fixed or cared for.
(i.e. only called a trans-man since theres something that needs to be fixed. basically i cant have a normal life until its fixed. just like the horse cant really just go on racing or anything else much until he's helped. though obviously those are different concepts, but just for an example)

i dont know if that made any type of sense that someone else could understand...but i guess thats sort of how i see it.
Once i get srs, i will no longer be trans. i can just call myself male, seeing as my physical defect (like the lameness of the horse) is corrected, now i am a plain old male. (of course this is relating to me. i know there are transguys out there that are comfortable with themselves now and might not even want srs and feel they can call themselves male right then and there. but they have their own explanation of course.)

wow, okay anyways...im done rambling.
(note to self, dont respond to semi-complicated questions when you're half-asleep, lol)

[heatherrose]

The descriptor for a person with a gender identity at odds with their coercively assigned birth sex 
Just because it's not a simple description, doesn't make it any less valid.

What exactly about the woman is the descriptor "Trans" describing?

I am by no means questioning the validity of the decriptor nor an
individuals right to embroider it across the seat of their sweat shorts.
As a seven year old, I did not sob across the kitchen table from my Mama,
"I should have been born a ->-bleeped-<-"