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What do you think causes androgyny?

Started by Alex201, February 04, 2011, 08:22:25 PM

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chrishoney

#40
FYI: There is a great article (written for lay persons, ie those without a background in statistics or neuropsychology) that discusses the importance of the original study on BSTc size at http://www.genderpsychology.org/psychology/BSTc.html

It also (thankfully!) discusses how statistics and sample size are used in studies like this and what that means as far as causality is concerned, since research such as that on BSTc size cannot ever show causality. The conclusions of the study also can ONLY be used to describe one nuclei in the brain of MtF's as compared to cis-males and cis-females. One needs to be extremely cautious in extending the results or theories to FtM's and/or androgynes, ->-bleeped-<- or GID in general, since they were not studied.

It's a good article--not long and fairly easy to understand despite the complex nature  of the original research.
I believe in nothing; everything is sacred.
I believe in everything; nothing is sacred. (The Chink, in "Even Cowgirls Get the Blues")
Embrace the chaos.
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Shana A

Quote from: perlita85 on February 17, 2011, 05:14:35 PM
As for the moderators: shames on you for letting this type of reputation given pass your censorship!

Perlita,

If you wish to discuss this smite or an offending post, you can report it at the bottom of that post, or email mods/admins. Bringing it up in the public forum is a violation of TOS. A reminder of the TOS:

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2. Any attempts to stage protests, dispute the site policy, the TOS/rules, or actions of the staff; in the public areas of this site will not be tolerated and will result in your removal. If you have issues I suggest you contact susan@susans.org and not bring your issues into the public spaces on this website. For the proper way to raise issues see term #20 below.

and

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20. The staff of this site exist to provide support to our members and visitors and to provide a safe environment by enforcing the TOS and rules of this web site and chat server. If you disagree with their actions or in regards to a specific situation feel free to contact Susan at her email address susan@susans.org with the details of the situation. She will review your complaint and take any corrective action that may be required by the situation. All user complaints and issues are taken seriously and investigated thoroughly.
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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rejennyrated

May I also add for the benefit of Perlita and anyone else who may not realise it that Moderators do NOT have the ability to reverse reputation given by another user. That ability is reserved to Susan and the Forum Administrator, which is also why public comments of such type will not help you.
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ativan

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ativan

Quote from: rejennyrated on February 19, 2011, 11:57:32 AM
how so?
OK, not so much derailed as the wheels keep getting wobbly. It's just me I suppose.
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tekla

It's just the pesky way that the internet has of mirroring reality.  IRL real conversations between real people with at least minimal social skills go hither, dither and yon, escape on sidebars and tangents and on occasion even make it back to the original point.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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ativan

I'm a dither and yon person myself, with tangents that go on forever......
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ativan

There, I just changed the direction away from the topic. Sorry........
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Eva Marie

Quote from: tekla on February 19, 2011, 12:09:20 PM
It's just the pesky way that the internet has of mirroring reality.  IRL real conversations between real people with at least minimal social skills go hither, dither and yon, escape on sidebars and tangents and on occasion even make it back to the original point.

Sounds like an apt description of the usual androgyne thread to me.... hey, shiny things!
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tekla

FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Pica Pica

'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Pica Pica

'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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tekla

We've got Devo commin' in on March 18, I'm ready to whip it.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Kendall

What if this is the wrong question? What if androgyny is just as normal as feeling all male or all female, kind of like being bi-sexual is just as normal as being all hetero or all gay or lesbian? Gay activists have pointed out it should be asked, "why are people (sometimes) heterosexual?"

What if the real question is, "what causes people to feel cis-gendered?"

Why do many people believe there are only two genders, and you have to be one or the other?

Not, "Why are we different?", but "why do 'they' think everyone has to be the same - to conform?"

I do not want either to discount or to engage in the biological argument, as interesting and important as it is. I am bring up a social question.

As others do, I am aware that understanding "why?" has many purposes. I do not want someone to invalidate my experience, so I look for ways to validate it. To say, "it is real because..." Believing something outside of social norms is often uncomfortable. Being able to say an "authority" validated my idea helps my confidence, maybe.

Sometimes I feel adrift not staying in my assigned gender box. Understanding why would help me feel more grounded.

I also wish we could just explore our potentials without feeling scared of social censure or worse.

I think I am rambling.

I think androgyny is a normal human variation that would need no more explanation than being cis-gendered if society were not so committed to its boxes.

And, frankly, the boxes are what need explaining.

Kendall

(ps please let us be gentle with each other - we get enough criticism and harshness from the box people.

pps if you feel committed to one gender or the other, I do not mean to imply you are a box person. Be yourself with my support and appreciation! Box people want ME in THEIR boxes. I want out of the box.)
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rite_of_inversion

QuoteI think androgyny is a normal human variation that would need no more explanation than being cis-gendered if society were not so committed to its boxes.

YES!!!!

Look, my general morality is that if it's not harming anybody (else), it's your right to do as you will.  So we really don't owe the world a justification at all, do we?

If it makes us miserable to NOT be androgyne, and it makes us happy to be androgyne, it's not like we're harming anybody!

People put way too much weight on this gender conformity stuff, and we make ourselves miserable with it!
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wendy

I read a good article that said if society totallyt accepted gender variations then some of us would still opt for surgeries.  However society does not accept variations and does not accept anything but two gender.  Therefore since I try to please and am very self conscience,  I am unable to find where I fit.
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tekla

Somehow 'normal random statistical mathematical variation' doesn't get the sympathy vote.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Rock_chick

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 19, 2011, 06:35:22 PM
(and we should wibble with it).

yep

Nice bunny ears   :)

Has anyone mentioned fruitcake yet?
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Simone Louise

Quote from: Helena on February 22, 2011, 01:49:00 PM
Has anyone mentioned fruitcake yet?

That's a good lead-in for something crazy I've been pondering. I've been hearing and reading lately about neuroplasticity: how brains get re-wired.

What if one were born trans and spent their formative years training their self to be cis: could they end up like some of us?

S
Choose life.
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