is this a stupid reason?

[El Capitan]

hey I guess I'm new although I have posted some pictures before in the 'do i pass?' thread so hola amigos!

ok so I'm part of an expedition team going to Africa this Summer to teach first aid.  Thing is and this might sound stupid    is that the 'girls' in the team are expected to wear typical girly clothes ie. a blouse and a skirt and the 'boys' obviously a shirt and tie and trousers, the leaders are adamant as this is how it is in Malawi and anything else would be disrespectful.  Now, I dunno whether to consider myself transgender (ftm) or just genderqueer but the idea of having to present myself as a girl just because i have a female body bothers me no end. I dunno if I can 

Also (although it's not as relevant to this forum) I have serious mental health issues atm with severe depression and anxiety ao obviosuly that makes me have second thoughts aswell.

I have been thinking about it recently and the thought of it gives me the willies to be honest. Having to be one of the girls when I feel more like one of  the boys.  I'm emailing the team leader with details and saying that I am unsure but I can't help but think maybe I'm missing out on this for a 'stupid' reason most people would laugh about

My mind is all over the place at the minute due to all sorts of things but what are everyone's thoughts? what would you do and am i just being silly?

cheers dudes

[xAndrewx]

Can you just out yourself to your leader and ask to wear the mens clothes? If it were me and they told me I had to wear female clothes I wouldn't go but that's just me. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[tekla]

I dunno whether to consider myself transgender (ftm) or just genderqueer

I doubt that they would understand - of if they did, approve - of either idea. 

si fueris Romae, Romano vivito more; si fueris alibi, vivito sicut ibi.
("if you were in Rome, live in the Roman way; if you are elsewhere, live as they do there"); attributed to St Ambrose.  If you can't do that, don't go. 

[regan]

Agreed with Tekla, its likely a Christian based mission and they're not known for being open minded about issues of sexuality.  In any case, its a binary world so you either have to be on the boys team or the girls team.

[tekla]

It's the bottom rung of the Third World, where that cheap Seiko watch you're wearing is worth 4-6 months wages for most of the people there.

And, at that, it's worth more than your life is to them.

[Nicky]

It is not a stupid reason honey.

You have mental health issues, and you know that this will be very hard on you. It does not sound like it is worth risking your mental health to go. you can't help anyone if you spiral down, and you might end up a liability to your team.

I think you are very wise to think about this seriously.

[emil]

It's the bottom rung of the Third World, where that cheap Seiko watch you're wearing is worth 4-6 months wages for most of the people there.

And, at that, it's worth more than your life is to them.

oh c'mon. that's uncalled for.


el capitan, from what you said it seems like you're anxious for a bunch of different and very understandable reasons and it doesn't sound much as though you really feel like going there. so maybe you should take a minute and ask yourself whether you really want to go there (keep in mind also that the culture shock you'll experience is going to be huge, not even taking the gender issue into account). Once you've got that figured out for yourself, you can either tell your team leader you're not going or else ask to be allowed to dress in male clothing (giving your reasons for it so it doesn't sound like it's just a fashion statement). personally, i would ask for male clothing and if i weren't allowed to wear pants i wouldn't go, but i would make sure they know this is the reason i'm not going. because to tell you the truth i don't believe i must wear a headscarf in tunisia or a sari in india because to me that would be more of a mocking of the traditional garments than a gesture of respect.

[tekla]

oh c'mon. that's uncalled for

How can I tell you've never spend time in the deep Third World?

[emil]

tekla, spreading your belief that the malawi people generally will kill people for their wrist watches just has nothing to do with the topic here.
it's not like he'll be camping outside on his own anyway and if someone kills you for a wrist watch they most likely don't care whether you were trans or genderqueer before they killed you
i think we have to keep in mind that we're most likely talking about a charitable foundation school or something the like here.

[El Capitan]

Can you just out yourself to your leader and ask to wear the mens clothes? If it were me and they told me I had to wear female clothes I wouldn't go but that's just me. Good luck with whatever you decide.

I'd prefer not to out myself to be honest. I am still working it all out to be honest and I don't feel I can with people I hardly know (it's different online :p)

I wouldn't go if I had to wear the girls' clothes either. I would likely out myself as well, but it depends on how comfortable you are with the group.

Honestly, if you went and you were dressed as male I highly doubt anyone would even question if you were a girl, no matter how feminine you looked. I say this because people often "pass" better to those outside their race. If you were among mostly African people, this would probably be the case.

interesting point of view there. I dunno if I would feel comfy doing that just in case sit all went tits up but it is something to consider

I dunno whether to consider myself transgender (ftm) or just genderqueer

I doubt that they would understand - of if they did, approve - of either idea. 

si fueris Romae, Romano vivito more; si fueris alibi, vivito sicut ibi.
("if you were in Rome, live in the Roman way; if you are elsewhere, live as they do there"); attributed to St Ambrose.  If you can't do that, don't go. 

sorry, i meant I I'm still figuring that out for myself

It is not a stupid reason honey.

You have mental health issues, and you know that this will be very hard on you. It does not sound like it is worth risking your mental health to go. you can't help anyone if you spiral down, and you might end up a liability to your team.

I think you are very wise to think about this seriously.

yeh that makes sense to be honest and I am worried that if I sspiral I will be so far from home and people i know and trust

oh c'mon. that's uncalled for.


el capitan, from what you said it seems like you're anxious for a bunch of different and very understandable reasons and it doesn't sound much as though you really feel like going there. so maybe you should take a minute and ask yourself whether you really want to go there (keep in mind also that the culture shock you'll experience is going to be huge, not even taking the gender issue into account). Once you've got that figured out for yourself, you can either tell your team leader you're not going or else ask to be allowed to dress in male clothing (giving your reasons for it so it doesn't sound like it's just a fashion statement). personally, i would ask for male clothing and if i weren't allowed to wear pants i wouldn't go, but i would make sure they know this is the reason i'm not going. because to tell you the truth i don't believe i must wear a headscarf in tunisia or a sari in india because to me that would be more of a mocking of the traditional garments than a gesture of respect.

more food for thought, thanks

Agreed with Tekla, its likely a Christian based mission and they're not known for being open minded about issues of sexuality.  In any case, its a binary world so you either have to be on the boys team or the girls team.

sadly, that's definitely true

cheers for the responses everyone, more views are welcome ofcourse

[El Capitan]

tekla, spreading your belief that the malawi people generally will kill people for their wrist watches just has nothing to do with the topic here.
it's not like he'll be camping outside on his own anyway and if someone kills you for a wrist watch they most likely don't care whether you were trans or genderqueer before they killed you
i think we have to keep in mind that we're most likely talking about a charitable foundation school or something the like here.

I'll be honest and say I didn't pay much attention to the watch comment.   

It's a voluntary organisation but I don't think it is 'Christian' as such, at least it doesn't promote it as such heh

[emil]

are they giving out "uniforms" or were they just asking you guys to bring skirts? because if the latter is the case, you could always just say you missed that part and brought the "most feminine pieces your wardrobe had to offer" by the way, malawi women have been officially allowed to wear pants since 1994, if that helps your argument.
http://www.friendsofmalawi.org/learn_about_malawi/volunteer_life/wish_list.html  here it says "Women can and do wear trousers in the city and while traveling"

[El Capitan]

are they giving out "uniforms" or were they just asking you guys to bring skirts? because if the latter is the case, you could always just say you missed that part and brought the "most feminine pieces your wardrobe had to offer" by the way, malawi women have been officially allowed to wear pants since 1994, if that helps your argument.
http://www.friendsofmalawi.org/learn_about_malawi/volunteer_life/wish_list.html  here it says "Women can and do wear trousers in the city and while traveling"

we would have to provide the clothes ourselves but I think they might have polo tops aswell, dunno when they would be worn though.

thanks for that link mate

[Make_It_Good]

I can understand your worries about this.

Last year I actually got to go to South Africa for 10weeks, doing voluntary work. I was living with a family (there were other English volunteers, but they were each with different families in the village)

I explained my situation beforehand to the organizers here in England. I was fortunate enough that where I was going wasnt as traditional and conservative as other parts of Africa/South Africa. I.e some of the girls wore trousers etc. I had been on T for awhile, but I assume you are not on T?

Are there people you can talk to before you leave? Explain the situation and see what their advice is? They will know best, and can judge how people where you will be staying, might react and take things. If I were you and was told to wear a skirt, Id scrap the whole thing. I have also dealt with severe depression and some anixety issues, but I found I was fine (although the issues ahev lessened dramatically over the past year or two.)

Not to sound harsh or anything, but you will need to take into consideration, how well you pass. It could lead to bad and uncomfrotable situations if you go, wear trousers etc and you dont really pass and people notice.  Either way, I think you should speak to the head about this. See what they say.

Good luck anyway.