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So what are they? TS, TV, CD

Started by RebeccaFog, January 25, 2007, 09:19:45 AM

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RebeccaFog

    What if somebody decides to keep their penis and just ditch the things that are under it?  What does this make them? Does it depend upon how they dress?
    Do some people ditch the Testicles and then wait to finish off the penis at another time?

     I'm just asking because I have heard of men having orchiectomies and I'm wondering if they are considered ->-bleeped-<-, or Transsexual. Maybe it depends on whether or not they are using HRT?

   Oh, wait! I just thought of another one.   What if a bio guy gets rid of his testes, keeps his penis, and has a vagina built in under the penis? Does this happen? or am I just going too far imagining what-ifs?

   Curious & curiously weird,

Rebecca

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Kimberly

Um, well as I see it you are basically trying to pin something that has nothing to do with the physical to something physical, or removal there of as case may be.

In my opinion one isn't a TS because they are or are not on HRT, have surgery X or anything else.

Just some sand in the wind...
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RebeccaFog


Hi Kimberly,

   Are you saying that being TS is a condition that only needs to be reckognized (no surgery, makeup, , HRT, or dressing) by the person who is TS?

 

Rebecca
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beth

Quote from: RebeccaFog on January 25, 2007, 12:49:32 PM

Hi Kimberly,

   Are you saying that being TS is a condition that only needs to be reckognized (no surgery, makeup, , HRT, or dressing) by the person who is TS?

 

Rebecca


               Do you have to be hospitalized, operated on and receive chemotherapy to have Cancer?  Most people do but does that define it?




beth
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RebeccaFog


Thanks, Beth

I hadn't thought of it like that. Sometimes I identify as TS, but then I wonder if it's right because I haven't gotten anywhere with my treatment.


Rebecca


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Sheila

I felt I was TS  or better yet a woman, before anything happened. Now, I didn't feel whole or anything like that until I had my SRS, now, that is how I felt. We are all different in that respect. Now, I had an Orchiectomy and I thought that was all I needed as surgery doesn't define you. With the orchi. I got everything changed. My name, drivers license MtoF, the whole ball of wax. Well, I didn't feel whole and that is what I wanted in life, was to feel whole. It wasn't until I woke up in the hospital in Thailand that I felt whole, the first time in my life. I was happy inside and the world seemed right to me. I no longer consider myself TS as I have transitioned and ended that part of my life. I feel like a whole woman now. Now, this is what it took for me, it may be less for some or more. That all depends on you.
Sheila
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tinkerbell

Quote from: RebeccaFog on January 25, 2007, 09:19:45 AM
    What if somebody decides to keep their penis and just ditch the things that are under it?  What does this make them? Does it depend upon how they dress?
    Do some people ditch the Testicles and then wait to finish off the penis at another time?

First, we will have to define transsexualism

It depends.  Is this somebody transsexual?  If a man with a male gender identity has an orchiectomy,  he is simply a man who has had an orchiectomy. 

QuoteI'm wondering if they are considered ->-bleeped-<-, or Transsexual. Maybe it depends on whether or not they are using HRT?

Quote from: Kimberlyone isn't a TS because they are or are not on HRT, have surgery X or anything else.

Since "a transsexual person self-identifies as a member of the gender opposite to the one assigned to them at birth", no diagnosis, HRT, real life test, or surgery makes anyone transsexual



QuoteOh, wait! I just thought of another one.   What if a bio guy gets rid of his testes, keeps his penis, and has a vagina built in under the penis? Does this happen? or am I just going too far imagining what-ifs?

Wow Becky! ;D  why would any woman want to keep that thing down there? Yuck! (unless of course there is a medical reason)

If this is indeed possible (which I doubt), I'd be the first to lock this person up in the white room for good. ;)

But you know what? Dr. M had an unusual request from one of his patients years ago, it has been documented as an exception.  I should warn you though that the photos are rather graphic.  See link.

tinkerbell :icon_chick:


   

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Nero

Quote from: Tinkerbell on January 25, 2007, 02:03:29 PM

Wow Becky! ;D  why would any woman want to keep that thing down there? Yuck! (unless of course there is a medical reason)

If this is indeed possible (which I doubt), I'd be the first to lock this person up in the white room for good. ;)

But you know what? Dr. M had an unusual request from one of his patients years ago, it has been documented as an exception.  I should warn you though that the photos are rather graphic.  See link.

tinkerbell :icon_chick:


   


Saw the pics - um, okay. a bit strange.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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RebeccaFog

Hi,

   I'm just being curious. I've been imagining myself as every type of person that is possible in order to try to figure myself out better.  Plus, I probably am in the midst of serious personal confusion.


   Tinkerbell,
      I certainly didn't expect any information like what you provided. I think it stopped me cold.  I know I don't want the testes at all. And, I don't need the other thing either.

    Sheila,
      Your experience shows that it would probably be best to go the whole way once it's 'go time'. I appreciate the input.


Love,

Becky
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Kimberly

If it is of any help by that mythical "go time" you should be more than sure already of what exactly you need and want. HRT is a pretty decent determining factor as are a few other things in the process.

So basically, don't worry and keep an open mind and hang on. This mess is definitely a wild ride.
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seldom

I will say this, contrary to some people on this board, one does not necessarily need to be transsexual to be castrated or seek it out.  For some people who identify as androgynes and transgenderists this is done to come closer or achieve thier personal gender identity.  Also contrary to the belief of some transsexuals, this can be achieved fairly easily, though there are only a few doctors who will perform it. 

There is classic trap of viewing things through just the TS, TV and CD dynamic, and it often ignores the entire group of people who fall between TV and TS.  The person may be a transgenderist or androgyne. 

Generally speaking this is how the categories break down for non-transsexuals in the transgender community:
TV/CD
Transgenderists
Androgynes

Transgenderists and Androgynes are often grouped into the group 2 (type 4) of the DSM IV regarding gender identity.  But if you read any of the academic literature this "inbetween" group is starting to become better recognized and treatment methods are starting to be better understood. 

In the past these inbetween categories were tough to diagnose and identify.  In fact the problem is many therapist still view things through a strictly MtF or FtM and TS, TV and CD viewpoint.  However many leading therapists and doctors in the field have began to recognize the "inbetween" category of people in which gender identity does not follow a binary and there is beginning to emerge a better understanding. These people where gender identity is a bit more complex, may seek castration out. 

I would just like to notify you that they may be something else other than a transsexual, but they still may be transgendered.   

Hopefully this answered the question. 

Oh this is a really good link from the international journal of ->-bleeped-<-:
http://www.symposion.com/ijt/ijtvo06no02_04.htm#Some%20Key%20Definitions%20and%20Concepts:%20Clinical%20and%20Cultural

The article goes into great detail about the differences and it does suggest that there will be changes in the future with regards to treatment and diagnosis.

There is also this article from Temple university:
http://www.temple.edu/tempress/chapters_1100/1373_ch1.pdf


And interesting little definition in the American Medical Student Association's transgender health initiative regarding Transgenderists:
3. Transgenderist
   

Transgenderist A transgenderist lives as the gender opposite their biological/anatomical sex, and may pursue various forms of hormonal and surgical intervention to adopt secondary sex characteristics of that gender, but does not seek gender reassignment surgery (vaginoplasty or phalloplasty - PowerPoint 1.8MB).

Bi-genderists are most often considered transgenderists who live only part time as the gender opposite their biological/anatomical sex. Hormonal and surgical intervention are only as appropriate, if at all, as the degree the bi-gender individual cares to present physical characteristics representative of the opposite gender.

Androgynists (or androgyne) may or may not be transgenderists, but we will include them here because, like the above, they usually chose to forgo gender reassignment surgery. As the name implies, androgynists adopt an appearance that is gender ambiguous. This is possible without hormonal or surgical intervention in most cases.

Living as a transgenderist can be extremely challenging, especially from a social perspective. In addition, transgenderists who forgo a gonadectomy inevitably find themselves on relatively high and extended doses of reproductive hormones obtained to counteract those produced in their natal sex. The health implications of long-term hormone use are addressed in LGBTPM's TGHI Hormones Info and History and Physical pages.

Link to page: http://www.amsa.org/advocacy/lgbtpm/transterms.cfm

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Terri Gene

Just like two cents in here for my part.  Having an orchiectomy doesn't make you anything other then what it does for you.  I was orchiectomied some time back after my first stroke to reduce the amount of estrogen I needed to take.  It was recommended to me by my psychiatrist.

I've heard from others that it totally blew out thier sex function, but in my case, it did not deprive me of achieving an erection if I had no objection to it.  I can function normally with my wife if we desire sex with no problems at all.

As to this board not taking into consideration other forms, TG, CD etc ...., there is no dialog pertaining to this type of retoric on susans, though we do have some discussions about what makes one a woman.

Having an orchiectomy is generally only done to relieve medical problems though there are a few out there who have some strange reasons for doing it.  That in itself has little or nothing to do with simply being a TS and not all TS's have it done. 

There are reasons not to do it if full surgery, SRS will not be done for several years.  The scrotal tissue will shrink some and leave less tissue for surgery so that must be considered.

I am only one individual, but can find no reasons for not having done it.  All is normal.

Terri
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tinkerbell

Quote from: SeldomI would just like to notify you that they may be something else other than a transsexual, but they still may be transgendered.

Bingo!  This actually answers many of the questions posted in so many different threads here.  :)

tinkerbell :icon_chick:
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