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Is it true that the shots are more effective that the pills?

Started by wannalivethetruth, April 17, 2011, 12:08:55 PM

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awilliams1701

What's the implantation process like and how big are they?
Every 6 months right?
Ashley
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Jennygirl

Quote from: awilliams1701 on July 09, 2014, 11:03:30 PM
What's the implantation process like and how big are they?
Every 6 months right?

they are cylindrical and kind of look like those fish food pellets in size, shape, and color. I think each pellet contains 4 doses, probably somewhere around 8mm long and 2-3mm diameter. They are small.

I think this is about as good as I can describe it... he has you get on the table and pull the pant belt area down above your butt, injects a local anesthesia, sanitizes the area, and makes about a 6mm incision in the fatty tissue about 1" over from the very top of your butt crack. Then he inserts the pellets one by one, gently placing them in there. Following the placement, he presses strongly to get them to set deep into the fatty/muscly area of your butt- it just feels like he's pressing it in there, doesn't hurt because the area has been numbed. Then he throws a steristrip on it and some bandages, tells you to not get the area wet for 3-4 days and sends you on your merry way. The whole process would take about 15-20 minutes, but he is a gabber and so am I- so it usually takes about 1-2 hrs :P ;)

Higher dosages have a higher falloff differential, so me for example with a high dose I go back in every 3.5 months. But with a lower dose that also means a lower differential so it can drop to as long as 6 months. Hope that helps.
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awilliams1701

That doesn't sound too bad. The worst part is the 3-4 days of keeping it dry. I don't know how I would keep my butt dry and still take a shower.
Ashley
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Allyda

Quote from: Sydney_NYC on July 09, 2014, 08:26:57 PM
Mine isn't covered at all under insurance. The estradiol valerate is more expensive up front, a 5 month supply costs me about $108, but broken down monthly, it's about $21.60/month. My HRT doctor also switched me from the Propecia dose to the Proscar dose of generic Finasteride (5x the dosage). It's funny that the price of the generic Propecia Finasteride costs me $28 for a 3 month supply (was $158 a year ago), to just $13 for the generic Proscar dose of Finasteride.
$21.60 per month for estradiol valerate injections is a lot better than the $90. for the estradiol cypionate. Even if I had to pay out of pocket I can afford this. What I can't afford is $90. per month for estradiol cypionate, plus another $10. for the syringes.

Thanks for posting Sydney. Even though your not in the US I now understand why my insurance isn't covering the estradiol  cypionate -there's a less expensive alternative. This gives me hope they will cover the estradiol valerate injections.

Ally :icon_flower:
Allyda
Full Time August 2009
HRT Dec 27 2013
VFS [ ? ]
FFS [ ? ]
SRS Spring 2015



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kitty

This question haunts me!
I just started hormones 3 weeks ago, and I've been taking pills orally.
However, I do believe my estrogen can be taken sublingually, but I've just been swallowing them because my endo didn't really give me clear instruction on what I should do. Although I heard that taking them sublingually will give me better results.
I'm also really curious about the shots, I really want to just do what is going to help me reach my maximum potential, y'know  :(
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Allyda

Quote from: kitty on July 09, 2014, 11:55:57 PM
This question haunts me!
I just started hormones 3 weeks ago, and I've been taking pills orally.
However, I do believe my estrogen can be taken sublingually, but I've just been swallowing them because my endo didn't really give me clear instruction on what I should do. Although I heard that taking them sublingually will give me better results.
I'm also really curious about the shots, I really want to just do what is going to help me reach my maximum potential, y'know  :(
While I await my injections to be straightened out with my insurance I still have to take pills. I put them under my tongue and let them disolve there and be absorbed rather than just swallowing them. Now I'm no Doctor so take this with a grain of salt, but I've heard you get almost 80% of your dose this way as opposed to just swallowing them and only getting 50-60% of your dose.

Hope it helps some.

Ally :icon_flower:
Allyda
Full Time August 2009
HRT Dec 27 2013
VFS [ ? ]
FFS [ ? ]
SRS Spring 2015



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Sydney_NYC

Quote from: kitty on July 09, 2014, 11:55:57 PM
This question haunts me!
I just started hormones 3 weeks ago, and I've been taking pills orally.
However, I do believe my estrogen can be taken sublingually, but I've just been swallowing them because my endo didn't really give me clear instruction on what I should do. Although I heard that taking them sublingually will give me better results.
I'm also really curious about the shots, I really want to just do what is going to help me reach my maximum potential, y'know  :(

The pills definitely work well. However, from everything I've read and experience of others, progress is faster with the injections. One reason I switched is that my T was still to high and going on injections means all the estrogen is going to be used and I don't have worry about certain foods (like broccoli that I love) counteracting some of the swallowed version. Also my doctor didn't want to up my Spiro, but was OK with upping my Estrogen. (Estrogen also lowers T.) My liver levels were perfect, so that isn't an issue and even though I'm over 40, medically I would be fine on pills (some people over 40 are not) since I'm in excellent health and I don't smoke, drink or use any recreational drugs and never have. Long term I think injections are better since they don't have to be processed by your liver. I do have fatty liver disease (hereditary from alcoholic grandfather), but as long as I don't drink are have too much sugar, my liver enzymes are normal and perfectly healthy. Since my liver now has to work less, there is less chance of liver issues down the road. Once I have SRS, the only thing I'll have to take is injections of estradiol valerate and it will be at a much lower level.
Sydney





Born - 1970
Came Out To Self/Wife - Sept-21-2013
Started therapy - Oct-15-2013
Laser and Electrolysis - Oct-24-2013
HRT - Dec-12-2013
Full time - Mar-15-2014
Name change  - June-23-2014
GCS - Nov-2-2017 (Dr Rachel Bluebond-Langner)


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kelly_aus

Quote from: Jennygirl on July 09, 2014, 10:56:23 PM
As with anything, the less stuff you put into your body to get the desired effects are probably better. That is why oral is so horrible.. The amount that you would have to eat to comparatively feminize the same amount versus a pellet is just crazy... Pellets are super efficient, much less estrogen going into your body by weight with much greater effect. Win-win

The difference in levels between me on pills (SL) and an implant was almost nothing.. It made no difference to my levels of development either. Liver tests were all about the same too..

I don't know that stating implants are better over anything else is entirely true.. I'm suspecting that it depends on the individual...
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missymay

I take pills and shots, and that seems to work well for me.  I take estradiol daily, and estradiol valerate inj. every other week.




No Dosages Please
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Jennygirl

Quote from: kelly_aus on July 10, 2014, 09:31:24 PM
The difference in levels between me on pills (SL) and an implant was almost nothing.. It made no difference to my levels of development either. Liver tests were all about the same too..

I don't know that stating implants are better over anything else is entirely true.. I'm suspecting that it depends on the individual...

True, and I am not trying to pretend to be a doctor with all of the answers. However I have just never heard otherwise when it comes to pellets, and if I asked my endo if pills could ever be more effective I have a feeling he would probably give me a really funny look.

When you were on the pellets, how many did your endo prescribe you? I know that some dr's are afraid to do any more than three- mine would likely consider that a minimum dose as he did with me- or a dose for someone who wants to feminize over the course of two or three years (slowly)
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Anastasiacryselle

Yeah ... They are effective and i'll tell you why from my experience as a transgender. I am transgender person from India suffering from puberphonia  too, which is a great advantage. I'm a medical student  now and had started on self medication on various formulation of oral  estrogens that includes natural estrogen  ie. estradiol valerate  and weakest estrogen  called estriol which is normally seen in pregnancy. I had started all this 5 years back (approximately around early 17 year)s. I'm now 22 yrs. I have experimented with various kinds of anti androgens(Ketconazole,bicalutamide,spironolactone,dutasteride) but not finasteride due to the dangerous side effect of finasteride called post finasteride syndrome. Dutasteride works wonders if you have enough money. And I have taken various synthetic estrogen like ethinyl estradiol  which is highly potent(meaning produces powerful action in small doses compared to estradiol valerate). Ethinyl estradiol increases Sex hormone binding globulin by 10 times compared to normal estradiol valerate equivalent which increases 2 times. Yes there is greater suppression of testosterone but there is excessive shbg which is a protein making the blood thicker and difficult to flow and causing decrease blood flow to brain( meaning -stroke)and clot formation. I have noticed best effects in  Injection and transdermal patch estrogen together, Depot estradiol valerate and transdermal patch to prevent the estrogen coming to low. Dutsteride is optional, but produces best results. Why estradiol injection formulation first it dosn't stress your liver and unlike oral estrogen it keeps the estradiol:estrone high.  estrone is carcinogenic in excess and is less  potent than estradiol. Our liver converts the oral esradiol into estrone. Second it kind of mimics the fluctuating normal menstrual cycle and yeah injection do cause mood swing , anxiety , sweating ( due to super low or super high estrogen that supersaturate and downregulate the estrogen receptor). The hormones need to bind to something  called receptor in the body to produce action. The body produces produces less receptor when  excess hormone is present and thus less action of estrogen and produces more receptor when less. Yes oral estrogen does produce stable concentration thus no side effects like mood swing anxiety but slow result  . But normal woman does suffer the fluctuation. It also improves your intuitive abilities from what i have found. Towards the end  of estradiol injection shot  cycle you may feel low anxiety sweaty so transdermal patch to prevent the estrogen coming to low.  FIve days prior to injection progesterone at high dose. Benefits It converts the estradiol into estrone and then to estriol. These weak estrogen block the receptor thus upregulating them. It normalize the clooting factor. Yeah increased energy and mood is seen with natural progesterone. Progesterone has natural anti dht effects.( Source:ncbi) Both progesterone and estrogen in excess gets converted into testosterone . So STOP  OVERDOSING. MAXIMUM EFFECT IS SEEN IN LOW DOSE . Side effects can like blood clot can be prevented by Vitamin e 800IU/ per day and aspirin. Injection increases prolactin which yeah increases milk but it also enhance the effect of testosterone on body and scalp hair follice and has potency and similarity as that of DHT. So Vitamin B6 for mental concentration(Dopamine)and estrogen dominant symptom and hypothyroid like symptoms that come with high estrogen. Vitamin b12 ,methionine(amino acid), VItamin b6 must be added coz the liver tries to remove the excess estrogen and in the process it uses vitamin b6 , methionine, and vitamin b12.  Thus deficiency can occur. Magnesium to prevent  the side effect seizures. and lot of fibre diet to remove the side effect of increased blood pressure.  Breast tissue requires lot of iodine. So Take Your multivitamin and mineral DAILY. AND also take complete protein. these all help your body to repair itself. Do your research again. Please For heaven sake . I suggest you take this information to your doctor and just show him as he will he will understand this better than you will.  And thus help you better. Last Of all Believe in yourself. Never eat excess in the notion that you will help fat redistribution instead you will be causing more damage and aging. Make your self flexible by doing stretches and exercise you will increase receptor for estrogen and hence action of estrogen. Anxiety (Unwanted pointless  worrying about future ) can be controlled by meditation and  exercise. Restlessness( Walking  excessively without realising )... Remember oral contraceptive have more side effects nd can be countered with just vitamins minerals and exercise alone. Over doing will only cause harm.. Do your research and help your doctor too by giving him this handy information so he/she could help you  better. Since injection do produce high level of estradiol as that of pregnancy it musnot be used for more than a year and preferably can be added  with spironolactone to counter the major side effects. High estradiol inhibits 5 alpha reductase . But progesterone inhibits 5 alpha reductase better. That means both estrogen and progesterone can prevent the formation of dht. I dont prefer anti androgen though it may be useful coz they may affect your cognitive abilites like your mathematical ability and  intelligence and memory. PLEASE  Give  importance to education first then rest will follow. believe me.  Selenium and iodine for proper thyoid functioning and Vitamin b6 ,vitamin c, zinc for adrenal functioning. So i suggested both vitamin mineral and complete protein daily.

*mod edit for dosages
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Cynobyte

Just started injections last month and can say the mood swings are worse than pills or troches.
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Allyda

Well, after todays Endo visit I can definitely say injections are much more effective. The most my E would get on tablets was 168 pg/ml, whereas after 3 months on injections my E today was 605 pg/ml. -a vast improvement. I'm happy, my Endo's happy, and finally my E is up where it should be for full transition. My Endo said to just keep doing what I'm doing as my vitamins too look great. My overall health looks fantastic, and I look hea according to my Endo and my bloodwork. So I was a very happy girl after this visit to my Endo.

Happy Holidays!! :icon_bunch:

Ally :icon_flower:
Allyda
Full Time August 2009
HRT Dec 27 2013
VFS [ ? ]
FFS [ ? ]
SRS Spring 2015



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Tori

I love the mood swings on injections.

Well, I love to hate them.


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Cynobyte

My wife laughs at me and says it's karma for all the years I called her crazy:)  she after a hysterectomy, now has a higher testosterone level and I have the higher estrogen.  My son thinks it's awesome.  At least he's in college now!
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Lady_Oracle

#75
My mood swings were worst on pills than on injections. I prefer shots over the pills. I gained a small boost in breast growth in my first of month of injections so that was pretty awesome. I really wish I could afford pellets.
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Rachel

I did pills sublingual for 15 months and IM 3 months. IM is more effective for me. My IM schedule is 14 days and I get low on day 10-14. My PA will allow me to go 10 days in march after he sees my blood work. I have consistently very bad dysphoria day 10-14. I hold back tears at work and sometimes I have to close my office door and cry. Going to and from work is emotional. 
HRT  5-28-2013
FT   11-13-2015
FFS   9-16-2016 -Spiegel
GCS 11-15-2016 - McGinn
Hair Grafts 3-20-2017 - Cooley
Voice therapy start 3-2017 - Reene Blaker
Labiaplasty 5-15-2017 - McGinn
BA 7-12-2017 - McGinn
Hair grafts 9-25-2017 Dr.Cooley
Sataloff Cricothyroid subluxation and trachea shave12-11-2017
Dr. McGinn labiaplasty, hood repair, scar removal, graph repair and bottom of  vagina finished. urethra repositioned. 4-4-2018
Dr. Sataloff Glottoplasty 5-14-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal in office procedure 10-22-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal revision 2 4-3-2019 Bottom of vagina closed off, fat injected into the labia and urethra repositioned.
Dr. Thomas in 2020 FEMLAR
  • skype:Rachel?call
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Cynobyte

Does anyone know a place that compounds pellets or would ship in mail (with a prescription of course).  I've asked compounding places, even my endocrinologist, and they have no clue about pellets.  Wish I could add thyroid to it too..  but just have nobody to send my Dr to talk to?
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AngieFerg

I've been on HRt for a long number of years and went off the injections a number of years ago and then went on the patches at  my doctors  request. I dont think the patches have a very strong feminizing effect on ones overall appearance, at least in my case. I'm about to see a new doctor and go on injections if  possible or take an estradiol  tablet ever day. I dont think the patches have a very powerful softening effect. I'm more concerned with facial softening for example than breast growth. I don't think the patches have a very potent androgenizing effect. I think the pills are probably more potent and the injections as well. The patches are easy and liver friendly but I hav not noticed them to be very effective in terms of overall androgenization.
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CB

As my Dr would say. Patch's, orals, injections or whatever... none of these have a feminising or anti androgenising effect in themselves. What matters and what determines your progress is what your blood levels say. Certainly it may vary from person to person in how a particular delivery method is tolerated etc but in the end it comes down to the blood levels over time. 
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