I've learnt a valuable lesson, please learn from my mistake

[Jayne]

I've been out in public as a woman several times now & apart from a few looks i've not had any problems (i've actaully had a few car horns beeped at me)
Unfortunately I still have a five o'clock shadow which is impossible to completely hide but I don't really give a damn what others think.

The other day I went out to a pub with some friends & whilst I was oblivious to snide comments being aimed at me by some of the drunk people at the pub my friends weren't, by the end of the night I had to stop some friends from starting a fight because of certain comments aimed at me.
I've always thought that I was the only one to be affected by such narrow minded people but it's been rammed home to me that these comments affect my friends as well, they feel that they have to come to my defence, I do appreciate their concern for my well being but i'm now having second thoughts about going out as a woman around friends, the last thing I want is for friends to get in trouble on my behalf.

Maybe I just need to educate my friends that if I can ignore such comments then they should follow my lead or maybe I should avoid going out as a woman until I can pass for a woman better, all I know certain is that this is just as hard on my friends as it for me (possibly harder because i've accepted that people are rude, obnoxious & downright ignorant)

[Julie1957]

Thank you for your story - I hadn't thought much about how it affects friends.

Of the choices, I suggest that you talk to your friends rather than going out alone.  Unfortunately it only takes one violent crazy to harm you - you're safer with friends.

[Randi]

People in general can be such jerks. Yes our decisions and behaviors do influence the actions of others. I sincerely hope that you won't let this stop your going out en femme. Only you can make that decision for your life and we certainly have to protect our dignity in whatever way is best for us. Good Luck!

Randi

[tekla]

One word, alcohol.  It changes everything.

[spacial]

One word, alcohol.  It changes everything.

That was my first thought as well.

I've also found that some seem to use the alcohol as an excuse to act like jerks.

But as you say, the effect upon your friiends is something that you would like to avoid. But equally, that they are so willing to stand up for you says a lot about them and a lot about you.

[tekla]

I've also found that some seem to use the alcohol as an excuse to act like jerks.

I tend to think that it merely liberates them to become the ->-bleeped-<- they really are.  It does not change them or make them different, it makes them 'even more so.'

[jesse]

agreed teckla alcohal makes them stop hiding thier true nature. i think it is best to ask your friends to ignore the coments and only come to your defense if your attacked physically. it would seam a better solution then going out alone.
jessie

[Barbara]

The back-alley sleazy dive bars i have been to treated me alot better than this.I think this should not have happened in a public place.My rule is that if they will not support me ,then my wallet will not support them.

[tekla]

I'll most likely get a bunch of hate mail for this, but so be it.

Alcohol sure ain't helping anything, it's a drug who's main side effect is rapid stupidity and elevated aggression - absolutely a match made in hell.  But a lot of that kind of behavior is also rooted in class.  The more upscale, the more educated, the more money people have, the less they act like this.  You'd never get that kind of problem at the yacht club.  They might not like you any more than the people at the Pub, but they are not going to do anything about it.  Want to go to an auto race en femme - make it a Grand Prix, not NASCAR.  Go to places like Williams-Sonoma and not Wall Mart.  Head out to the opera or ballet and not Karaoke night or places where girls dance on poles.  Much safer around expensive champagne then cheap beer, or even cheaper gin/vodka.  Go to a meeting of American Academy of Science and not the Creation Museum.  BMWs not Harleys.  West Coast not Midwest.  I know of one fantastic place that is really an entire world unto itself, and is pretty much the last place you'll find any of these people, and that's a bookstore.

[MarinaM]

I know of one fantastic place that is really an entire world unto itself, and is pretty much the last place you'll find any of these people, and that's a bookstore.

All excellent points, Tekla, and I spend a ton of time en femme at the book store, never had any problems.

[Staci3336]

So I guess I have to ask what have your friends said about the added trouble? Put the shoe on the other foot and imagine you are your friend dealing with the issue.. How would you feel? My guess is that you would feel - screw the drunk idots ,, we are all her together! I envy you for your outness,, do not feel false guilt for others.. They would not stand up for you if they didn't support/care for you!  Embrace it!

[Mariposa]

I totally agree with Staci. Their actions alone just goes to show how much they care about you and your safety. Granted I probably wouldn't want them getting in any trouble either if I were in your situation, but that shouldn't stop you from going out as yourself. Have you thought about laser hair removal/electrolosis? It truly can make a world of a difference! Then you won't need as much makeup and you can even get away with not wearing any makeup at all and confidently sport the natural look!

[Catherine]

The lesson should have been this: Dont go to pubs. I learnt it a while back after seeing all the drunk wastes rolling around every pub entrance while juggling conversations between tits and football. Not something I wanna be associated with.

No actually in the UK the answer is to have the publican remove the offending person. If they wont involve the Police.

You are protected by the law in the UK. People will do time if they go to far

[Jayne]

Thanks for the replies everyone & sorry I didn't erespond sooner, I wouldn't normaly start a topic on a forum & not keep an eye on it but for the last 4 days i've been extremely depressed (my disphoria has been a nightmare since then, I didn't have a bath or undress my lower half for 2 days so I wouldn't have to see what's down there).

The general reaction of my friends was that people are nasty & that I shouldn't have to put up with that, one person who i'd met for the first time was appauled by what was said, he admitted that what shamed him the most was that until he met me he woud have been one of the people making comments, in the space of a few hours his outlook on life & people have changed & he's come out of it a better person.

Unfortunately the group i'm in have monthly meetings in a pub & I don't want to leave the group because of this so i'll have to try & educate them to ignore the comments as I try to.
I agree with the comments about drink, it reveals what people are like inside & for many people it's shallowness & rudeness that gets revealed.

[Catherine]

Thanks for the replies everyone & sorry I didn't erespond sooner, I wouldn't normaly start a topic on a forum & not keep an eye on it but for the last 4 days i've been extremely depressed (my disphoria has been a nightmare since then, I didn't have a bath or undress my lower half for 2 days so I wouldn't have to see what's down there).

The general reaction of my friends was that people are nasty & that I shouldn't have to put up with that, one person who i'd met for the first time was appauled by what was said, he admitted that what shamed him the most was that until he met me he woud have been one of the people making comments, in the space of a few hours his outlook on life & people have changed & he's come out of it a better person.

Unfortunately the group i'm in have monthly meetings in a pub & I don't want to leave the group because of this so i'll have to try & educate them to ignore the comments as I try to.
I agree with the comments about drink, it reveals what people are like inside & for many people it's shallowness & rudeness that gets revealed.

Jane,

Where is your group?? I am in Southampton in the South

[Jayne]

Catherine, the group I spent the night with isn't a transgender group but they have been a great support for me.
I'm not with a transgender group at the moment but i'm thinking of looking for one in my home town of Bristol

[Catherine]

Catherine, the group I spent the night with isn't a transgender group but they have been a great support for me.
I'm not with a transgender group at the moment but i'm thinking of looking for one in my home town of Bristol

I have to say that i am surprised about Bristol. It is usually a good place for Trans people.

If you need some support then contact Chrysalis. www.chrysalis-gii.co.uk... (I volunteer for them and am a trustee) they do support people as far away as Wales.

[Amy1177]

Hi Jane,

Sounds like you have some great friends.  I can understand how quickly we forget about those around us in the midst of a negatively stressful situation.  Sounds like the drunks could have used a good swift kick in the ass.  As unfortunate as it is sometimes that is the only way you can educate someone.

[soulfairer]

I'll most likely get a bunch of hate mail for this, but so be it.

Alcohol sure ain't helping anything, it's a drug who's main side effect is rapid stupidity and elevated aggression - absolutely a match made in hell.  But a lot of that kind of behavior is also rooted in class.  The more upscale, the more educated, the more money people have, the less they act like this.  You'd never get that kind of problem at the yacht club.  They might not like you any more than the people at the Pub, but they are not going to do anything about it.  Want to go to an auto race en femme - make it a Grand Prix, not NASCAR.  Go to places like Williams-Sonoma and not Wall Mart.  Head out to the opera or ballet and not Karaoke night or places where girls dance on poles.  Much safer around expensive champagne then cheap beer, or even cheaper gin/vodka.  Go to a meeting of American Academy of Science and not the Creation Museum.  BMWs not Harleys.  West Coast not Midwest.  I know of one fantastic place that is really an entire world unto itself, and is pretty much the last place you'll find any of these people, and that's a bookstore.

Well pointed, tekla. Bookstores. I love them! There are some big bookstores here that are completely different from other environments and I sometimes say there's another ecosystem in them

[Tara L]

No disagreements with all said above.

AND what wonderful friends you have. You can go out en femme feeling comfortable with them and they protect you. Relish in this and do not let the traumatic event and dsiphoria get the better of you. You are a wonderful person and women.

Hugs, Tara