confused person and possibly a flyby but I am going to post anyway

[Carbon]

Hi, I am sorry if I bother anyone or if I should be able to figure these things out on my own, but I would still really like some input.

Anyway I haven't thought a whole lot about gender identity for most of the time because:
-I am autistic. I don't need another "thing" to draw attention to myself or make me weird. In fact I am often terrified of appearing unusual since that can be so dangerous for me.
-I don't put a lot of stock in self-definition/individualism type thinking in general because of my political beliefs. I don't want to debate this and I still believe it but I'm also realizing that sometimes I do need ways to move through my personal life and that this is OK.

Anyway like a lot of people I never knew you could be "androgyne" and that that was a Thing. I never remember being 100% comfortable with body and or comfortable being A Man. When I was younger I often wished I was female, but I eventually realized that I wouldn't be comfortable with that either, even though I think it would be closer. I also know that I don't want a complete physical transition, but I have often wished for very specific things. I discounted them because my understanding was that you could only get them if you were transsexual (which I didn't/don't think of myself as) and I had so many problems already that I wasn't going to start screwing around with hormones and the like on my own. I'm also drawn to many feminine things but I feel like I'm not able to express that part of myself because it's not "normal" and therefore it's not safe. These things have been the case essentially my entire life.

I'm also not sure how well I'd do presenting as female given my large beard! I quit shaving mainly because I already have trouble with self care skills (same reason I have shorter hair even though I'd rather have long hair), but I have preferred it's effect on my appearance. But I never considered that I had an option besides- man with a beard, man without a beard. In fact I have a pretty large hair growth in general, my eyebrows etc are larger than normal and I don't have the time/coordination/etc to do anything about that. I also don't have a ton of money although I'm somehow ended up with a bit saved up.

I don't know. I guess my question is what do I do now? Because I'm starting to realize that this isn't just me being self indulgent and has some impact on my confidence etc. I usually don't like being told to "talk to people" (psych system is not that friendly to autistic people) but I find myself wanting to "talk to someone" about this. I am a university student and I know there's counseling center, but have not had great experiences with the guy I've been forced to see a few times (there are other people). I'm also afraid everything will get redirected to me needing to learn "social skills" (ie how to hide any problems I'm having so people aren't uncomfortable) or needing to be on psych drugs. And I DO NOT want psych drugs.

vvvr hi

[LightlyLuke]

Hey Carbon!

Hats off on your huge giant step of posting and starting to ask questions! 

So what would be different about your Ideal Self-Presentation from where you are now? Do you want to hang out in the gray zone in the middle? Or go further over to the female side?

[Pica Pica]

Ello.

You sound like you are in the right area.

[Sevan]

Depo wouldn't likely be the way they'd go about suppressing your testosterone. It's be spiro most likely. All the same though...
Does sound like your in the right place. Perhaps just letting go of some of that "forced male" persona and see how that feels, see if it fits.
I'm on the aspergers spectrum (thankfully pretty high functioning...didn't realize all my little "isms" fit under one thing until recently...) though I'll be quick to point out my doctor doesn't feel there's any reason to actually test me for it as I'm nearly 29 and "getting on pretty well!" yea...so I generally hesitate to mention my believe that I have an asperger's mind.
One reason I do bring this up...is how hard gender is to define without using "feelings"....there's no black and white, there's no logic to it (as my therapist LOVES to point out to me...) there's seemingly no rhyme or reason and one person might identify as androgyn and explain their feelings about their body/mind...and then another person might identify as MtF and seemingly feel the same as that androgyn. (I'm currently dealing with this with two people in my life and I simply DO NOT understand. I'd like to though...)
I don't know why I bring all that up other than to say...this can be a confusing road, and a difficult one, but it can bring peace to explore yourself and understand yourself better. Weither this is a true gender expression/identity for you, or if it's simply a railing against forced masculinity...I suspect it's going to feel good either way.

[Carbon]

Depo wouldn't likely be the way they'd go about suppressing your testosterone. It's be spiro most likely. All the same though...
Does sound like your in the right place. Perhaps just letting go of some of that "forced male" persona and see how that feels, see if it fits.
I'm on the aspergers spectrum (thankfully pretty high functioning...didn't realize all my little "isms" fit under one thing until recently...) though I'll be quick to point out my doctor doesn't feel there's any reason to actually test me for it as I'm nearly 29 and "getting on pretty well!" yea...so I generally hesitate to mention my believe that I have an asperger's mind.
One reason I do bring this up...is how hard gender is to define without using "feelings"....there's no black and white, there's no logic to it (as my therapist LOVES to point out to me...) there's seemingly no rhyme or reason and one person might identify as androgyn and explain their feelings about their body/mind...and then another person might identify as MtF and seemingly feel the same as that androgyn. (I'm currently dealing with this with two people in my life and I simply DO NOT understand. I'd like to though...)
I don't know why I bring all that up other than to say...this can be a confusing road, and a difficult one, but it can bring peace to explore yourself and understand yourself better. Weither this is a true gender expression/identity for you, or if it's simply a railing against forced masculinity...I suspect it's going to feel good either way.

I'm not really very "manly" as it is. I've never been that good at it, but if I want to avoid drawing attention to myself that's always been the easiest option. I do notice that the less I think of myself as a man the more comfortable I am with myself and I don't really identify with men being "my people." But as long as I don't do anything too unusual people will still accept it. I think I do have some mind-blocks in place though as I'm pretty good at confusing myself.

I agree about not getting tested for autism/aspergers if you don't need to, by the way. I think it is more way more trouble than it was worth if you don't/won't need accomodations or certain kinds of help, unless you just need it to get people to leave you alone. I'm also not sure having a psych diagnosis will always be a safe thing. I'm still diagnosed but it doesn't really prove anything in itself.

I don't necessarily want depo provera in particular, especially at first. It did sound like the majority of the effects it has would be things I would want but I can understand if it isn't their first choice.

[Nemo]

Hi Carbon,

Speaking as someone who was once in a similar position, my first bit of advice to you would be to break away from the "what will people think" thought patterns. This in itself is easier said than done, I know; it will take a lot of work but with the right people, books etc. it can be achieved.

Once it has, you're then free to think about just how you want to present yourself - fashion is a way to express who you are. You can get men's clothes that aren't so masculine (I'm personally fond of crushed velvet tops, poet/pirate shirts, etc.) Grow out your hair if that's how you want it. Go nuts - freedom's a wonderful thing, and once you stop worrying how other people think of you, you'll be able to quit the acting and be yourself, whoever that is

[Carbon]

It's not "what will people" think so much as it's "what will people do." I like being left alone instead of being harassed. I've been harassed by people a lot over the years so that's still a reasonable expectation. Still, I can only live my life around that to a point, I think.

I am going to get referred to someone, by the way. They said they think they can find someone who has seen both transgender and autistic people which would actually be pretty good. I also broke down and shaved for the first time since I was a teenager. T he good news is that I'm not as ugly (or probably as masculine, for that matter) as I recalled myself being. The bad news is that I suck at shaving. :p I can see why I wanted to stop doing that. Oh well. Right now I'm... prickly.

[Carbon]

I've read that asperger's people are less likely to identify with their birth-assigned gender but I don't know how true that is, people say lots of stupid things about autism spectrum people.

I put off shaving for about 4 years. It got so random men would come up to me and compliment me on it. Everyone's going to give me a hard time for having shaved now, too.

I remember that when I was a teenager I almost felt like I had to shave twice a day. But I was using an electric razor. The manual ones seem to do better.

[Carbon]

Okay, I've poked around this subforum some more and I've come to the conclusion that y'all are silly.

Also, I'm a bit less prickly this morning but I also nicked myself more. Ack. And still pricklier than I'd like. I'll figure this out eventually.

[Sevan]

We are silly...that much is true. 
You'll get the hang of that shaving thing. I had to! hehehe.
I often wonder about the things that are said about persons with aspergers. Though...from what I've seen here in these forums, and in other places I frequent I do have to wonder. Many folks identify as being aspies. *shrugs*

[Carbon]

We are silly...that much is true. 
You'll get the hang of that shaving thing. I had to! hehehe.
I often wonder about the things that are said about persons with aspergers. Though...from what I've seen here in these forums, and in other places I frequent I do have to wonder. Many folks identify as being aspies. *shrugs*

I think we're much more likely to be online than the general population is, at least outside of social networking sites. The internet tends to fit our communication much more naturally. For some people it's even the only way they can communicate consistently.

[cynthialee]

Sounds like someone needs a proper instruction on shaving.

First thing you want to do is a hot wrap. Take a tea towel and soak it in as hot water as you can stand against your face. Wring it out and wrap you face in the towel, of course the idea is to focus on the beard growing areas of the face and neck.
Let it sit about 3-5 minutes. It may be a good idea to have a spare towel hot and ready to go as the first towel will get cool faster than the wrap should be on.

After the wrap use Shave Secret. (follow directions on bottle) This is an esential oil mix for shaving. It can be in the shaving section of walmart or your local super market. This stuff is magic, well worth the bother to find. If you use shave secret you do not need shaving cream but it is ok if you feel the need for the stuff.

Be sure to use a 3-5 blade razor. I prefer a 5 blade. Be sure to change the blades out regularly. Nothing will mess up a shave like a dull razor.

After you shave use witch hazel as an after shave. The witch hazel will make the left over missed hairs stand on end and easy to find so you can touch up your shave. Witch hazel is also an antiseptic and an astringent, so it will sting a little bit if you nick yourself shaving. It isn't too bad at all.

Touch up your shave job.

Splash on a touch more witch hazel in the areas you touched up.

PAT DRY your face. Do not rub!

Wait about 10 minutes then apply a facial moisturizer. I prefer Oil of Olay, but there are plenty of good products out there.

Shave like this every time and you will not have shave bumps and your skin will be very soft every time.

[Carbon]

Okay, thanks again. I attempted to use an old electic razor and when I realized that wasn't going to cut it (aha) I ran out to a nearby convenience store and bought the one razor/shaving cream thing they had. I am running low on food so I will probably go to the grocery store today. I can check out what they have there and having people's recommendation will give me some idea of what to look for.

I have to say I'm enjoying this thus far so that's a good sign.

[Pica Pica]

I just put up with the rash.

[cynthialee]

I just put up with the rash.

Why would you do that!?
It just takes a few extra minutes to do the job in a way that avoids the rash.
Also if you are rashed out you stand a higher chance of getting an ingrown hair or an infected owie.

[Carbon]

I've been rashing myself a bit too...

Going to write the things here down and go to the grocery store.

[espo]

I hear that eating fruitcake will prevent rashing.  I'ld give it a try if I was you.

[dalebert]

...learn "social skills" (ie how to hide any problems I'm having so people aren't uncomfortable) or needing to be on psych drugs.

This is a brilliant quotable.  It really made me pause to think about "social skills" in a new light.  Makes me wonder if a certain degree of autism might give you an objective view that most people never have because it's second nature to them to do whatever it takes, sacrifice part of themselves, to fit in to certain groups.

[Pica Pica]

Why would you do that!?
It just takes a few extra minutes to do the job in a way that avoids the rash.
Also if you are rashed out you stand a higher chance of getting an ingrown hair or an infected owie.

I don't shave my owie.

[Carbon]

I hear that eating fruitcake will prevent rashing.  I'ld give it a try if I was you.

NEVER

This is a brilliant quotable.  It really made me pause to think about "social skills" in a new light.  Makes me wonder if a certain degree of autism might give you an objective view that most people never have because it's second nature to them to do whatever it takes, sacrifice part of themselves, to fit in to certain groups.

Maybe a bit, but I don't think that's necessarily the case. One thing I've noticed is that the autistic (I use this for word for any "autism spectrum" people) people who almost fit in are the most... okay word fell out of my mind, but like, they identify the most with "normal" and try very hard to be that, because they come really close to fitting in. But of course they never do completely. In fact I did spend a few years trying to do that, but once I learned all the different things I had to do and what it would get me then I didn't want to keep doing it.

On the other hand, lots of disabled people (in the sense not having one of sets of abilities that are most accommodated by society, rather than the "faulty" or "broken" sense) are expected to do lots of things to try to fit in. One the goals of the disability rights movement is to say that they/we shouldn't have to do that, especially when it comes at too great a cost to ourselves. I didn't realize people with physical disabilities had to do some of the same sorts as things as me for a long time, but they are expected to try to hide any difficulties or uncomfortableness they are having. If they can't, then they lose some right to autonomy in many people's eyes and are pitied.

I don't shave my owie.

...eh?

Okay never mind.

On another note, my sleep schedule has been really wonky lately. I may have to start breaking out the coffee again, I keep falling asleep partway through the day. I'm set to see a doctor about sleep issues eventually but in the mean time...

In other news when I woke up, my first thought was. "I am prickly. I'm like rip van prickly."

Okay bad joke. I've been in a good mood a lot more sense I've started just thinking about some of the gender stuff so I guess that's a sign that I'm going in the right direction (non binary is sitting with me more now although I haven't tried to explain it to anyone in detail yet). I now have a therapist lined out but still haven't set up an appointment.

Also, I couldn't find all that shaving stuff. That doesn't mean it wasn't there, just that I couldn't find it when I am already disoriented and in an overloading environment. I did find a 3-blade razor that was on sale and I got a discounted after shave, although it didn't say what was actually in it. This stuff will have to do for now. I may have to go to the internet, I can currently get free shipping on some stuff from amazon.