Shedding some light

[tekla]

Pre-internet there really was an avant-garde, and they were funny.

[tekla]

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I think the AG went away with the beginning of world-wide media and broadcasting.  The Beats were kinda the last real American AG, everything that has followed since - hippies, punk, burning man, goth - are both mass movements (you could have had a reunion of all the real 'beats' in larger living room, there were only a very few of them), and they are largely commercial movements.  They tend to be based heavily (as everything else is too) on sales, fashion, (Wear THIS> to be goth, Wear THAT> to be a punk, Hippie Hot Topic) then in any actual production.  The real Beats wrote their way in, painted their way in, composed their way in while now people just tend to buy their way in.

[cynthialee]

perhaps we could get back on topic?

[Pica Pica]

perhaps we could get back on topic?

Androgynity in action. 

I think there are still movements, but very local, a few friends creating worlds together.

[Kinkly]

beauty is in the eye of the beer holder 

[insane_protagonist]

To respond to the original post (since I am new here):

I would call myself a female (sex) androgyne (gender). I'm also Asexual (well, demisexual, for the sake of argument) and highly introverted. Are all of these things related? maybe probably.

Funnily enough, I've never really been "femme" at all - even when I was a kid. Oh sure I liked "girly" toys and sparkly things - but it was more because they were fun and pretty, not because I associated them with being "girly". Mostly I played with stuffed animals and plastic dinosaurs and building toys rather than any of the stuff that people think of as "gendered" toys such as dolls or whatnot. I hated wearing dresses, although I liked HAVING cool/pretty clothes. I just didn't care that much about how I looked. When I was a teenager I wished I could be a boy just because I was miserably lonely and none of the girls I knew were interested in anything that I found remotely engaging. It wasn't that I felt I was a boy, but rather I found their antics marginally more relatable.  When I grew up I guess I sort of stopped caring and started just living the way I felt. I've been married happily for 7+ years, and I credit my spouse with helping me become more comfortable with being myself instead of trying to fit any kind of mold or role. 

I dunno, I suppose to some people's perspective I could still be called a woman - I don't mind if people think of me that way because it's just easier for most people and I am not going to press the issue. I live and present as androgynous (my body looks female) and while I suspect that people must find me a bit odd, no one has ever treated me poorly on account of it.

I sometimes wonder if I am not sort of "invisible" from several different angles: I'm not ambiguous enough to stand out as "trans" or anything like that, but on the other hand I don't know but that maybe some people don't actually read me as a guy in some cases (I've actually caught this while traveling, where somebody in a hotel or restaurant addressed me and my husband as if we were both men, before doing a double take and correcting themselves. XD). On the OTHER other hand, I feel like I'm also invisible as a woman because I don't fit ANY of the criteria for getting "noticed" (clothes, looks, body, etc).

Anyway, this ramble has gone on long enough.  Suffice to say, I consider my gender to be androgyne but I don't really put a lot of effort into it because I've been living as one by default without knowing it most of my life. : )

[Pica Pica]

Welcome t'board.

My toys were hand puppets. They had such riveting lives and histories this hand puppets.

[Sevan]

Welcome to the boards and thank you for your input! hope you enjoy your stay here at Susan's.

[ninjaboi]

To be completely honest I dont know what I am! 

Growing up i wanted to be a boy and even passed as one many times, by no fault of my own. 

Then I came out as a lesbian but didnt like the term so used gay.

About 5 years ago i found the butch femme scene and thought I was butch.

Past year i have realised Im not like other butches. I think and feel like a man, not a woman. I hate having breasts, i hate having periods. If i could i would be rid of both! But i wouldnt ever want to take T or have the op down below, because im happy enough in that way. (Strap on and packer do me fine) And i like me! So does my wife.

So i came to the conclusion of being Genderqueer.

Having read about andros - i really dont think i fit there either. I cant say i am happy about my female body at all.

Confused!!

[Nero]

Having read about andros - i really dont think i fit there either. I cant say i am happy about my female body at all.

Confused!!

Some andros aren't happy with their bodies as well.

[ninjaboi]

there aren't any really strict rules around here when it comes to labels, in fact they just seem to get the way for most. You don't have to be in a box around here either. How about just Gender Flexible?
You're in the right place here...

We just rebuilt the rope swing to hold 6 at a time, and it sounds like there's going to be a party here in the forest. Bring wifey, too!

I was telling her tonight about this place and how friendly you all are. I think she may join us soon. So glad its not to strict here with labels, its hard when your unsure where you fit.

[Taka]

i still haven't found my own label, so i'm just staying here in the androgyne forum because it has more freedom to just be. thinking that i had to choose either male of female stressed me out so much for so long, it was such a relief to find this place

[sunny-side]

I haven't quite found my label yet either, but I'm leaning towards identifying as an androgyne too.  I agree, it's a liberating thought when you don't feel like you really belong to either gender.  I don't know yet if I'm "two spirited" or neither gender or just something in the gray area in between.. but then again I've just started my searching as well for something that makes sense for me.  This site is certainly helpful, though!

[Alex02]

Hey, people I think I'm going to post my story here, too. I already posted on the IS forum, but here it may also be right.

I'm sort of ,,inter-gender" if anyone has ever come across the term. My body is 100% female (my Doc says), but my mind feels more like intersexed (or androgyne) - somehow that sounds better to me, because I wish my body could be that way.

I know, IS folks have it hard and all – but still.
I greatly long for a penis down there without anything other changed or removed. I feel I should be both – but no doc can do it that way and no one would anyway, sigh.

I'm 23 and realised being sort of transgender last year, since then I'm dressing as a boy (with average passing rate of 50%).
My behaviour has always been there in between all of it – which results in me being often an outsider who don't fits any particular role. I guess most people are just seeing me as an oddball.
Luckily my parents are cool with me (mostly at least).

My sexuality is quite queer for I feel homosexual with women and men and everything in between. I'm attracted to people ranging from butch-lesbians to gay men - but not to any heterosexual cis-people (aka ,,normal" people), dunno why but that just totally turns me off, imagining myself in a heterosex relationship.

Lately I've come to rest with my feelings and thinking I'm just another variation of nature.
But I don't know what to do with it and my wishing for a penis. So my travel of ever changing feelings continues.

Any ideas would be highly appreciated
Greets, Alex

P.S.: I'm German, so please forgive me any mistakes with my English.

[Sevan]

Hey Alex!
Thanks for joint us here and posting your story! I would have never seen it in the IS section. inter-gender makes perfect sense to me.
When I first discovered transgender people online it was via porn. I saw these women who were totally women...except they had a penis! I became totally obsessed with this body shape. I now understand that those were trans-women who likely wanted nothing to do with their penis and I feel badly for looking at them but I wasn't even lusting them...simply wanting to be them.
I have no issue with my breasts...even like them most days. Though gosh I wish they were smaller!
I hope you can find what works for you!

[sunny-side]

Oh I agree on the wishing for smaller breasts, Sevan!  In general I don't mind my female body either but dang those things are inconvenient and I feel so disproportionate.

I came to learn and am still learning about what being androgyne means through coming across the word "cisgendered" in a discussion.  I looked it up and was like... what o.o ...this is not me.  I never thought of myself as being transgendered as I always thought that meant feeling like the opposite gender of what you are physically and I don't really feel like a man either.  So in my search to find a better term I stumbled upon androgyne and this site, glad I did.

And your English is wonderful, Alex!  I wish I had more to contribute but I'm really new at all of this myself.  But good luck!

[Taka]

hi alex! and welcome!

you just went ahead and wrote my story before i got to do it myself.. i often miss the penis which should have been there, though i might be a bit different from you in that i some times wish my breast away, would make it so much easier to throw off my shirt when it's hot and i otherwise feel on the more male side of my life. but the girl in me would be saddened by the loss, they look really nice in the right clothes


and welcome to you too, sunny-side!

[Alex02]

Thanks for all your responses 

Hey and you complemented mine 
Yes, there are days when I wish for my already small A breasts to vanish as well - hot summer days and all the boys running around half naked and me being envious, hehe. I don't want to wear a bikini or else. Moreover, when I'm attracted to (gay) men, I see myself as rather male too and want my body to be like theirs.

But I'm still used to my breasts and think I would miss something - I'm not girly but though they are a part of my body and I don't want to loose any organs of mine. And if I'm attracted to a butch-lesbian I don't mind being female bodied anyway.

So my gender expression ranges somewhere between "wanting to be more masculine" and "feeling okay" but I want to keep my healthy body intact. I wish there was any comfortable binder for my breasts, as covering them with an undershirt gets annoying summer days (but I won't wear anything uncomfortable).

Nevertheless I feel inter-gender: female body + masculine look + mixed behaviour.  And wishing my body to be both as well

Love to you,
Alex

[sunny-side]

Flotsam and Taka: Thank you both for the warm welcome! <3  I do certainly hope that I am in the right place, and if it turns out otherwise, at least I'm in good company right now.

[Alex02]

One more detail I forgot to mention: my feelings towards my body are ever changing.
One day, I feel pretty okay living the paradox of feeling male within a female body.
On other days I wish for my body to be comletely masculine –
and on days like the last few days I long for a body of mixed sex. That's why I called it inter-gender. There I can totally relate to you, Sevan.

No idea, if those alternations will ever stop, meanwhile I got more or less used to them.
Does anybody experience similar changes?

Oh, and hi sunny-side

Greetings,
Alex