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Shedding some light

Started by Sevan, June 05, 2011, 09:04:44 PM

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Taka

that sounds just like me, alex. i simply can't decide on anything because nothing feels wrong or right more than a few days at a time, and i often wonder what hormone treatment would do to this ever changing state of mind
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Sevan

Not to throw around labels and definitions...(it's really not my style) but what your describing Alex is commonly referred to as "gender fluid" and they often describe themselfs as ever shifting within the gender spectrum.
I'm also the spouse to the fabulous Mrs. Cynthialee.


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Alex02

Thanks people :)

I already tried gender-fluid and genderqueer for me (sorry, mentioned it in the IS section, but forgot here) - it just didn't work for me.
I wish I could identify as fluid and be cool with my wavering feelings, but I'm afraid I'm rather some sort of quite indecisive ftm -

Which sucks, because I want to go full-time soon, but I'm such a crybaby and it scares the >-bleeped-< out of me.
Yeah, that's exactly why I'm shying away from treatment - what'd happen if I'd regret it?
I want to be more masculine anyway.
Any idea what I can do about it?

Meh, feeling quite dysphoric today, but my family awaits guests at afternoon, so I will have to show a happy face.
See you later,
Alex
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Alex02

Hi everyone,

Sorry for that moody last post - I've had a baad night of insecurely dreams :embarrassed: .
Found my cool and rest again now :D.

However, I just had a sort of enlightenment right now:
I'm going to order binder, packer and male swimsuit and opt for the masculine role full-time - but without any medical treatment.
I'm positive the combination of female body and male role will fulfill both of my sides, the butch-lesbian as well as the gay boy inside me.
Still I'm a bit scared to ask my family using male pronouns and the male form of my name (Alexander). They already know I'm dressing as a boy, but I don't how they will react to that request. But I guess that can wait till I get the binder and all.

Happy Greetings from over the rainbow :)
Alex(ander)

Btw.: Hey Taka, may I ask you where your avatar is from? I really like it.
Are you from Japan by chance? I'm right into manga and trying to learn Japanese ;D
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Taka

my avatar is bolt crank from the manga eat-man. i highly recommend it. there's made two short animes out of it, eat-man and eat-man '98, but they're hard to find and don't cover any of the main story. i'm not japanese, but i speak the language fairly well, passed jlpt level 2, though still not ready to go for n1
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Alex02

Thank you :)

Heh, I feel a bit silly now, for making such a sulky post earlier. If anyone finds it annoying feel free to move it somewhere else.

I did a little thinking about the labels by now, and came to find: on one hand those labels should be unnecessary to me, but on the other hand it's just humanly, wanting to belong somewhere.

So what do you think about the term Two-Spirit for me?
I know it's originally a Native American term, but trans*community seems to have adopted it, and when I read about it, it sounds surprisingly suiting to me.

Do you think, I could call myself a FtM-Two-Spirit?

(Funnily enough, I'm pretty sure hardly any German person, would understand the word - but though I'd like to use it for myself and on the internet. :D)

Oh, and one more thought just crossed my mind: Would FtM-Two-Spirit count among androgyne or another umbrella term?

Have a nice sunday,
Yours, Alex
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Pica Pica

Quote from: Sevan on July 16, 2011, 10:21:51 AM
Not to throw around labels and definitions...(it's really not my style).

Aren't you then labelling yourself as someone who doesn't throw around labels?

Labels are inevitable and useful and I use them at every opportunity to understand, make sense and interact with my world.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Pharaun

Labeling myself certainly has helped me understand a lot of things. Having too few labels is when things start to get confusing but then you learn and know more.
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ZaidaZadkiel

regarding labels, it's my purpose to be able to use as many labels as it is possible within a human life time.
So that way, when people wish to label me they'll have to use a long string of labels.
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Sevan

Quote from: Pica Pica on July 17, 2011, 03:29:39 PM
Aren't you then labelling yourself as someone who doesn't throw around labels?

Labels are inevitable and useful and I use them at every opportunity to understand, make sense and interact with my world.

Why...too right! Lmao. It just seems that when we try to being to fine a point on it...it becomes all the more ellusive.
When I was searching for the descriptive word that fit me just perfectly...early on...back in them days ;) I came across the word androgyne and I thought...ureka!! Then I found a description for this word (not saying this description is %100 correct, just saying it's what I found back then...) and that was "%50 male, %50 female. Someone who fits between male and female on the binary."
I set about trying to squeeze into that mold in way of dress, action and transition. Found it frustrating and I'll fitting.
I now use the term more loosely. I don't see a need for anperfect fitting label (though FtA suits me rather perfectly if I must put a fine point on it) and interchange my labels as I see fit. Somedays...I'm two spirit, some days I'm androgyn, somedays I'm third gender...all fits, all works, just anmatter of the day.
Though really...I'm me. And understanding "me" takes more than one sentace worth of descriptors.
That's not to say I'm against them...they're important!! These words of ours...but they're not SO important...in my mind.
All that is to say that...Alex (and anyone else searching...) the specific word you use to describe yourself isn't so important, and we can't pick on for you. If you think FtM-two spirit suits you, why by George you go for it!
*huggles*
I'm also the spouse to the fabulous Mrs. Cynthialee.


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Pica Pica

Quote from: ZaidaZadkiel on July 17, 2011, 03:59:38 PM
regarding labels, it's my purpose to be able to use as many labels as it is possible within a human life time.
So that way, when people wish to label me they'll have to use a long string of labels.

If you are lucky, it'll be a biography's worth. (I want a full on Boswellian 194504 words worth).
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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cynthialee

I understand that the concept two spirit comes from Native American traditions but I do not feel that they have a right to claim sole ownership of the word.
Two spirit says ALOT just in those 2 words. Many people who are not Native American associate themselvs with two spirit concept.
The idea that two souls inhabit a single body can not be limited to a single ethnic group.

Personaly I believe that I have a dual soul situation myself. Just the female soul is the primary this life time.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tsu 'The art of War'
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sunny-side

I do agree that labels definitely have a purpose as far as searching for understanding and knowledge goes.  It's what launched me into my own search for understanding, so I can't deny that they have a purpose despite how much I hate to admit that.  I've fought against them for so long... though perhaps there needs to be a line drawn in between labeling and stereotyping, although I'm not entirely sure where to draw that.
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Pica Pica

Just gotta realise they have wobbly and stretchy walls.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Taka

i decided that androgyne will have to work as a label for me until i can find something else that fits better. for all i know my gender could be a die that is cast every night to decide what i should feel like the next day, at least that's what i feel like right now. not two spirits, or something fluid or flexible, but a whole with a confusing more than just two sides. and none of the sides look exactly the same, though they all exist at the same time
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Alex02

#95
Hi, thank you everyone for all the nice posts :D *huggling back*

It's okay, as I don't want to offend someone (namely the Native Americans) by accident, I'll use just FtM-Transgender then as umbrella term -  maybe sort of dual androgyne inter-gender if I'd try for as many words as possible, too ;D.
I just liked the open-minded dual concept behind two-spririt, but it's not necessary to use exactly this word for me, I'll just keep the idea cherished in my mind. :)
I guess that's exemplary for my understanding of labels - it's the underlying idea of the concept that matters, not the word itself.

Taka, I think, the image of the dice is a nice one - a gender-dice :)
(Hey THAT'd make an awesome label, wouldn't it  ;D)

Greetings to you all,
Alex

OOh, shiny - it's a new record of how many smileys I can use in a single post  ;D 8) :D :)


Edit: Did there vanish any posting - what happened to the one, saying some American Indians claim Two-Spirits as exclusively their label ?
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foosnark

I haven't quite figured out the labels yet either.  Some of the more general terms work (well, "nonbinary" anyway) but few are dead on. 

I like "liminal" best, but it isn't used much.  (And I'll note that I'm listening to Spotify and the song that's on right now is called "Places In Between."  Heh.)  But I do have a sense of the binary genders being these anchor points -- like statistical distribution curves maybe -- and I have a rope bridge between them or something like that.

"Androgyne" isn't bad, though of course people usually think of it in terms of appearance and physical traits.

"Gender fluid" I've pretty much accepted, though I haven't really yet figured out how much actual flow is going on.  If anything shifts it's less my sense of gender identity and more my comfort level with how I'm expressing it.  So I don't think it's a perfect term for me.  Going back to that rope bridge, it's maybe swaying a little with the breeze and bouncing a bit as I walk across it... no, that metaphor doesn't really work. :D  But anyway, it was this term that helped me take a step off the "what if I'm an MtF who's too chicken to transition" trail that wasn't going anywhere, so it was helpful for that at least.

"Epicene" is kinda cool because you can't spell it without "epic."  But it sounds like it describes dinosaurs rather than genders :D  It's also not quite accurate, because my internal sense of self says I'm neither an effeminate male nor a masculine female, which that term would mean.

"Genderqueer" I don't like, partly because I still think of "queer" as an insult for gay people, because I think it does confuse people not in the know (and isn't there already enough trouble with people confusing sex, gender ID, and sexuality?) and partly because some people associate it with making a sociopolitical statement.
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Sevan

Thanks! Epicene...that's a new one for me. I like it! :)
I'm also the spouse to the fabulous Mrs. Cynthialee.


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foosnark

Yeah, it's a cool word!  "Epicenity" is the noun.  I think I ran across it on wikipedia.

After looking over Androgyne Online and Gender Wiki, I'm really warming to the term "androgyne."  I originally bypassed it because I thought it referred mainly to looks, or maybe a mild type of intersex condition.  But in terms of gender it just describes me better than fluid does.
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Pica Pica

It's always useful to remember that the word is androgyne not androgynous.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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