Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I wasn't sure what to call this topic, so here is what I am thinking. Just rambling on a bit, sorry. I have recently gone back to wearing skirts from time to time after many years of not doing that (why is a different topic). And I am finally finding makeup that doesn't bother my skin, so I have also started wearing makeup again after about 10 years of not doing so.

But the thing is, I feel like I am transitioning again......

Are you familiar with the situation where people looking at you makes you unsure of yourself? That you are wondering whether someone is thinking "who's that weirdo?". Or on the other hand, if it is a woman that she might notice the fashion faux pas you made and is thinking "Why is she wearing those shoes with that skirt?". If it is a man he might be thinking something along the lines of "She looks nice" (or whatever...).

If there are men and women together and only (some of) the men are staring and the women don't give you a second look, that is probably a good sign  :)

Like this afternoon in the elevator of the building. Two young men, two young women. The women were chatting and completely ignoring me. One guy was just riding the elevator and keeping to himself. One guy kept looking at me. Am I being to analytical trying to analyze the situation?

And young children especially. Children seem to be much more intuitive about these things, and less socialized. So if you have a child staring at you, maybe not good news?

In my experience people are too polite to actually say or do anything, so there is little actual "danger", but it takes some time to build up the confidence.

I would appreciate your thoughts.

The one time I had a young boy staring at me, he went...

"Why is she wearing boy clothes?"

I went full time after that one.

If I have noticed women looking in my direction I start to wonder what fashion error I have made too. :embarrassed:

Karen.

number 1: People stare at other people for a whole host of reason, 99.99999999999999% have nothing to do with identifying you as someone with a transexual history
Number 2: Children are curious...they stare at everything and everyone. This also ties into point 1.
Number 3: Fashion is merely the ability to carry off a look with confidence...most fashion faux pas occur when people wear stuff because it's fashionable, not because they like it.
Number 4: Trying to guess what other people are thinking will drive you nuts, so it's best not to do it.

Quote from: Maiara on August 03, 2011, 10:50:08 PM
The one time I had a young boy staring at me, he went...

"Why is she wearing boy clothes?"

I went full time after that one.

I have found that children can often be more perceptive than adults, probably because they haven't yet been taught not to be. I remember once years ago in like Walmart or something some woman said to her kid something to the effect of "come on, stay out of this man's way" and the kid said "mommy that's a girl!".

And yeah most people that look at you are probably just doing so because you're there. They don't really care who you are and only care what you're doing if it might affect them. Most people have plenty of other things to think about besides trying to figure out the medical history of someone they don't even know.

Quote from: Plain Jane on July 16, 2011, 03:03:40 PM
Are you familiar with the situation where people looking at you makes you unsure of yourself?

Completely.
It's all just anxiety, but you have to learn how to get over what people think of you.
It can be frustrating and difficult.
I would know :/

I transition somewhat in school, so I'm used to reactions.
Teenagers are the worst subjects.
I never wanted to come off as female I was just the "boy who wore makeup"
I think doing that all school year got me used to transitioning.

Quote from: Plain Jane on July 16, 2011, 03:03:40 PM
Are you familiar with the situation where people looking at you makes you unsure of yourself?

Oh, yes.

A while back while clothes shopping, a boy looked at me then asked his mother a question. She looked at me, smiled and said, "She's a woman." She smiled at me again.

But usually, it doesn't go this well.

A few weeks ago at a grocery store, a woman looked at me, turned to the girl next to her saying something, and both of them looked at me. Neither were smiling. Getting on the bus this past Sunday, the driver was staring at me with what looked like (to me) a look of disapproval. After I took my seat, I looked up into the mirror and he was still staring at me.

These days, after events like these most recent two, I'm tempted to hunch my shoulders forward and shrink. But then I mentally tell myself, "Head high. Back straight. Boobs forward. Sway hips."

Quote from: Plain Jane on July 16, 2011, 03:03:40 PM
Am I being to analytical trying to analyze the situation?

Yes you are.

What can happen is you start looking around to see who is looking at you, someone looks over and thinks "Why is this woman acting so paranoid?" And they stare at you. You see them staring at you and get even more apprehensive. Then other people start to notice you are nervous and wonder why. You think it's because you have been clocked, they just see a woman acting strange. It is all because you are acting oddly, not because of how you look. You walk away feeling unsure of yourself, those people are left wondering why you were acting so weird.

Women check out other women, Guys check out women. Children stare at people for no reason because they don't know it's rude to. If I do notice someone staring at me, I just throw them a quick smile and they almost always smile back then I look away. I know I am a very unique looking person, honestly people probably clock me more than I realize but I can't worry about that. It might be partially because there aren't many 5' 11" in sock feet women. I can't change that. But I KNOW I am a woman and am confidant in that.

I try to look as attractive as I can and just go about my business. "normal" people don't walk around looking to see if people are checking them out and wondering what they are thinking, we shouldn't either. Trying to do this will just drive you crazy and make you stand out as acting strange. The WORST thing you can do is be unsure of yourself.

Quote from: Gravity's Child on August 16, 2011, 11:16:46 AM
number 1: People stare at other people for a whole host of reason, 99.99999999999999% have nothing to do with identifying you as someone with a transexual history

People generally analyze each other in public. I had a young guy keep staring and smiling at me in walgreens. He must have been 19... Discovering new feelings and new likes.

Had I not seen that "look" before I would have assumed "he's clocking me!". But talking to several men, I've learned what the looks are. Of course, every person is different.

my rule of thumb: don't try to analyze what they are thinking.

You are not Counselor Deanna Troi (if you don't know her..google her).

You will go insane if you assume every stare or smile or weird look is because you're not passing.

i use this as an example:

I work at JC Penneys in the Juniors (girls age 15-25) and young men's department (boys age 15-25) and yesterday I saw two girls about 16 years old wearing leggings and a black top that only went down to their waist.

As I staring at them, I was thinking "oh wow....you think everyone would figure out by now that you dont wear anything that hugs the legs AND hugs the chest. It's just not that attractive..l don't care how fit you are."

Then my co worker who is 20 years old was like "yeah, you know? Wearing leggins and a shirt like that? You minus wear throw on some tights and not wear a skirt. Seriously, people, don't show your goods to us!" Then she started to laugh.

I never made any comment about the two girls when I was looking at them; but my facial expressions told my co worker everything I was thinking. She read me like a book and she got what I was thinking right.

If those two girls were transgender and if they saw me and then my co worker, I am sure they would have thought "oh my gawd they clocked us!!!"

However, it was the last thing on my mind when it came to clocking anyone. I was just in awe how someone could mess up a simple modern fashion rule when it came to leggings.

So, it can be many reasons why someone looks at a transgender girl. From many of the transgender girls I have seen or met, I noticed that some of them do not have "the fashion graces" for whatever reason (they are new at dressing, they haven't quite gotten their age and their fashion sense to match, or whatever) so when people stare at them the transgender girls who are thinking "i got clocked" may have never gotten clocked at all; only their fashion sense got clocked. For example, if you walk around in 5 inch stiletto heels at McDonalds, you are gonna get stared at no matter if you are trans or cis.

Or it can be other reasons why someone stares at you. However, if you always think about them clocking you, then you're going to have a major stressful life!

Quote from: Gravity's Child on August 16, 2011, 11:16:46 AM
number 1: People stare at other people for a whole host of reason, 99.99999999999999% have nothing to do with identifying you as someone with a transexual history
Number 2: Children are curious...they stare at everything and everyone. This also ties into point 1.

Very true. I had two little girls whispering about me and the mom caught them and said "you know doing that isn't very nice....we talked about this before."

The one girl said "Im sorry mommy, but I love her hair bow. It's pretty."

So I can def see how one may think that if the child is whispering away to another about you it could look bad but more chances than not, they are doing and saying something that you wouldn't expect...and its not always negative!

Quote from: Stephe on August 24, 2011, 11:12:58 AM
Yes you are.

What can happen is you start looking around to see who is looking at you, someone looks over and thinks "Why is this woman acting so paranoid?" And they stare at you. You see them staring at you and get even more apprehensive. Then other people start to notice you are nervous and wonder why. You think it's because you have been clocked, they just see a woman acting strange. It is all because you are acting oddly, not because of how you look. You walk away feeling unsure of yourself, those people are left wondering why you were acting so weird.

How true!  I wrote post earlier about seeing a MTF that passed but she kept looking around.  That is how I feel since I am very self conscious.  I started watching other people to see if they noticed this lady and if they did they most certainly did not care.  People may notice but most just don't care. 

.....................

Asked a friend to go to donut shop with me this past weekend.  It was really nice.  People came in and did not even look at us.  No one cared.  She is very comfortable with herself and it relaxed me.  In fact I was almost disappointed that no one even looked.  Paranoid if they look and disappointed if they do not look.  I am such a mess.

To me, it seens women are checked out more often than guys do. So this could add to the issue!

Just assume they are looking at you cause you are so damn sexy.

Ya! It is what I do

Quote from: Bird on September 18, 2011, 12:54:58 PM
To me, it seens women are checked out more often than guys do. So this could add to the issue!

VERY much so. Unless you are a smoking hot guy, most people never give you a second glance. Women are checked out by EVERY guy and most other women. It just is..

Quote from: Stephe on September 18, 2011, 06:07:09 PM
VERY much so. Unless you are a smoking hot guy, most people never give you a second glance. Women are checked out by EVERY guy and most other women. It just is..

I analyze every guy. Almost every guy I walk by acknowledges me, says hi, smiles, does that eyebrow thing, and waves at me. Of course I make eye contact with everyone I see.

I am not even that hot.... So yeah, reminds me of that Jamie Clayton vid where she was getting so much attention. But I'm from Hayward, Ca where people are rude if they suspect you're different.

Quote from: Mahsa the shark on September 18, 2011, 10:46:44 PM
I analyze every guy. Almost every guy I walk by acknowledges me, says hi, smiles, does that eyebrow thing, and waves at me. Of course I make eye contact with everyone I see.

I rarely give eye contact to guys and don't smile etc. Maybe it's different where you live but here some guys take eye contact and a smile as "I want to hook up with you". Not the message I want to give, I'm taken :)

When I was living as a guy, I noticed most women would never make eye contact etc to me either. But now that I'm living as a woman almost every woman makes eye contact and smiles or says hi and I do the same.

Quote from: Stephe on September 18, 2011, 10:56:15 PM
I rarely give eye contact to guys and don't smile etc. Maybe it's different where you live but here some guys take eye contact and a smile as "I want to hook up with you". Not the message I want to give, I'm taken :)

Well yeah, but its kinda cool seeing that they are reacting to me in a positive way like that instead of clocking me. It gets even worse when I wear short shorts... I am only 5'5", 135 with big blue eyes.

be careful wearing short or tight revealing clothing. Your body shape will clock you.

Quote from: Stephe on September 18, 2011, 10:56:15 PM
I rarely give eye contact to guys and don't smile etc. Maybe it's different where you live but here some guys take eye contact and a smile as "I want to hook up with you". Not the message I want to give, I'm taken :)

When I was living as a guy, I noticed most women would never make eye contact etc to me either. But now that I'm living as a woman almost every woman makes eye contact and smiles or says hi and I do the same.

I love to take walks and I say Hi and smile at nearly everyone I pass.  Maybe 90% return Hi and smile.  In fact if I do not acknowledge them they acknowledge me first and then I acknowledge them.  I do present somewhat male but that is more due to fact that my face looks male.

I would do same as a female.

I live in an educated part of big liberal Southern city.

.......................

Quote from: Annah on September 19, 2011, 07:25:13 AM
be careful wearing short or tight revealing clothing. Your body shape will clock you.

Annah I am not sure what that means.  When I dress female I wear a pretty tunic, wide midwaist belt, capris and comfy female shoes.  I like sterling jewelry and minimal makeup with a hat.

My figure is revealed and no one will think I am a male.  At that point I will be clocked because my figure is O.K. and my face is boyish.  My male shape without belt is 40C-34-40 and with belt it is 40C-32-42.  Is wide midwaist belt too revealing?

Quote from: wendy on September 19, 2011, 09:09:40 AM

Annah I am not sure what that means.  When I dress female I wear a pretty tunic, wide midwaist belt, capris and comfy female shoes.  I like sterling jewelry and minimal makeup with a hat.

My figure is revealed and no one will think I am a male.  At that point I will be clocked because my figure is O.K. and my face is boyish.  My male shape without belt is 40C-34-40 and with belt it is 40C-32-42.  Is wide midwaist belt too revealing?

It's hard to explain. When I see a trans girl wear like a tank top or a form fitting shirt, I can tell pretty quickly if she is trans. You stated you wear a tunic, thats fine. Im meaning a shirt that hugs your boddy pretty close. Unless you received HRT at the age of 14 or had body altering surgery, the torso can clock you if you wear the wrong things.

Wearing leggings is fine if you wear it with a loose top (that applies for anyone regardless of gender identity as leggings with tight tops is just not a good idea and looks really bad. So for some time things you can get away with it but usually tight tops will clock.

For example, I am 36C-32-38 but if I wore a form fitting top, it will def show a masculine outline. When I wear looser shirts, my torso appears feminine. I hope this makes sense.

Quote from: Annah on September 19, 2011, 10:45:07 AM
It's hard to explain. When I see a trans girl wear like a tank top or a form fitting shirt, I can tell pretty quickly if she is trans.

I agree. I wear mostly A line skirts that don't draw attention to the fact my hips aren't that wide, if anything it makes them appear wider than they really are. It's all about enhancing/drawing attention to good parts and not to the bad.

Quote from: Annah on September 19, 2011, 10:45:07 AM
It's hard to explain. When I see a trans girl wear like a tank top or a form fitting shirt, I can tell pretty quickly if she is trans. You stated you wear a tunic, thats fine. Im meaning a shirt that hugs your boddy pretty close. Unless you received HRT at the age of 14 or had body altering surgery, the torso can clock you if you wear the wrong things.

I never see any trans around here. But all the girls are a bit extra on the weight and tend to have bad muffin tops. I wear baggy tops because they flatter my figure and hide the belly pooge that is the result of too much sweets.

Again, reactions in this case mean a lot more coming from cis people. Men are gonna like a feminine girl dressed in tight stuff. Girls, I don't know... I have no idea what lesbians find attractive.

Thanks Annah and Stephe.

I move painfully slow and do not wear heels, skirts, or dresses.  Embroidered tunic with wide "tight" belt was nice in my opinion.  At least no one called me sir and actually few called me mame. 

Today I totally dressed androgynous female.  I had black dress shirt with darts (I do not know men that wear shirts with darts for their breasts.)  I had female stretch jeans.  Female black lace-up shoes, white cap, pink nails, tasteful jewelry, and black androgynous bag.  Got "sir" multiple times at all but one location.  That one location knows me and does not refer to me as sir or mame regardless of presentation.  I started laughing after first location and continued to laugh and smile at every location I visited.  I did not walk looking if everyone was watching me.  It was a good experience but not even close to passing and I was dressed totally female.

I asked my son later that afternoon what he thought of my outfit and he said I looked gay.  At least I looked like a happy gay man.   ::)

Quote from: Gravity's Child on August 16, 2011, 11:16:46 AM
number 1: People stare at other people for a whole host of reason, 99.99999999999999% have nothing to do with identifying you as someone with a transexual history
Number 2: Children are curious...they stare at everything and everyone. This also ties into point 1.
Number 3: Fashion is merely the ability to carry off a look with confidence...most fashion faux pas occur when people wear stuff because it's fashionable, not because they like it.
Number 4: Trying to guess what other people are thinking will drive you nuts, so it's best not to do it.

I needed that.  Thank you.

Quote from: Mahsa the shark on September 19, 2011, 02:25:21 PM
Girls, I don't know... I have no idea what lesbians find attractive.

it all depends...time and circumstance can make a difference as well.  And when it is all on floor, well, it doesn't really matter a whole lot, does it  :laugh: :angel:

Quote from: Ann Onymous on September 19, 2011, 02:54:29 PM
it all depends...time and circumstance can make a difference as well.  And when it is all on floor, well, it doesn't really matter a whole lot, does it  :laugh: :angel:

I mean I've met a few butch femmie looking ones. But being hetero, I have no idea what they are thinking. I added two lesbians to my fb list and they are always filled with comments about how nice I look.

But they are both very femme.

Quote from: wendy on September 19, 2011, 02:30:15 PM
Thanks Annah and Stephe.

I move painfully slow and do not wear heels, skirts, or dresses.  Embroidered tunic with wide "tight" belt was nice in my opinion.  At least no one called me sir and actually few called me mame. 

Today I totally dressed androgynous female. 

Whatever works for you is awesome and always remember it may change in the course of your transition (your tastes I mean)

When I first started to transition, I would thought I would be the type that would wear feminine plaid shirts and blue jeans all the time.

One year later, I am the complete opposite.

I went from plaid shirts and jeans as the mainstay to long ankle skirts and sweaters

Then I went from that to a mixture of cute above the knee length skirts (wide skirts like pleated shorter skirts and a line....cuz a tight straight skirt will increase the odds of me getting clocked...I use the same rule for form fitting skirts as I do for form fitting skirts) and I also wear knee length skirts too.

My tops varies depending on the skirt or whatever. It may be a cute sweater, a blouse, a top with a cami....i just nix and match it.

But one thing is for sure. The wardrobe I thought I would be wearing when I started to transition is radically the polar opposite of what I am wearing now.

Quote from: Annah on September 19, 2011, 09:14:44 PM

But one thing is for sure. The wardrobe I thought I would be wearing when I started to transition is radically the polar opposite of what I am wearing now.

I dressed like a bad version of Katy Perry when I started, moved onto dressing more pinup for awhile, before settling on the contemporary modern hiphop/club girl look every other girl sports around here.

Guess I broke it all today... tight-fitting shirt and short shorts. :laugh:  I walked three miles around the lake near my house and several guys kept staring at me as we passed each other multiple times.  From the looks on their faces, I wouldn't say they clocked me.

Damn, that felt good! ;D

And then there was last weekend when I wore something very similar (except a tight tanktop and short shorts) and had some guys yelling about my legs from their car.  Apparently they're hot. lol

I remember getting my first cat call. It was felt great to be seen as a woman like that. Congratulations on your experience

Huggs

Emily

Quote from: Annah on September 19, 2011, 09:14:44 PM
When I first started to transition, I would thought I would be the type that would wear feminine plaid shirts and blue jeans all the time.

One year later, I am the complete opposite.

I went from plaid shirts and jeans as the mainstay to long ankle skirts and sweaters

But one thing is for sure. The wardrobe I thought I would be wearing when I started to transition is radically the polar opposite of what I am wearing now.

How interesting.  I went from boring male clothes, to more and more expressive male clothes, to androgynous female clothes, and now an occasional nice piece of female clothing mixed with androgynous female.  When I can accept it and feel comfortable then I move to something else.  If I can not feel comfortable with me then no one else can feel comfortable with me.

.........................

Quote from: Zoë Natasha on September 19, 2011, 10:02:36 PM
Guess I broke it all today... tight-fitting shirt and short shorts. :laugh:  I walked three miles around the lake near my house and several guys kept staring at me as we passed each other multiple times.  From the looks on their faces, I wouldn't say they clocked me.

Damn, that felt good! ;D

Zoe you are too funny.  Actually I've had a number of cat calls from good looking construction male workers but I was dressed as a male.

It's funny. I know exactly what you mean. I'm in town right now and I'm binding and generally throwing off the male insides of me. I was raised to be polite and hold doors for people. When I was younger, men would hold the door for me because I was a girl. (they let it close on the guys)

Anyway I hold the door for everyone. So I held the door for two women earlier and an elderly man. All three of them said "thank you sir." Now this didn't happen all at once. One of the women kinda eyed me for a moment first. The other woman was very happy and didn't give me a second look. :)

I think the woman that gave me the look was questioning my age more than anything. I'm very tall...and I was nervous then as I usually am in the mornings when I'm not sure about how I look.

So yeah I know how it is to feel like maybe they know. But as someone said earlier, I know I'm not the telepath from Star Trek. =P it'll drive me nuts to try to know what they're all thinking.

If I see that a girl or woman is looking at me intensly I try to think about my cute earings or that she is jealous of my long legs. I can't read their mind anyways so if I'm going to make stuff up I make up good stuff that makes me feel better.

Huggs

Emily

Quote from: Gravity's Child on September 23, 2011, 01:41:42 PM
Depends on your body shape really...I don't have any issues at all rocking a skinny jeans and nice figure hugging vest top


Skinny Jeans, a very battered pair of converse all stars, a cute hoody and just enough makeup and effort applied to hair to make sure the world knows your a girl. Oh...and a skate board...that's the most important bit  ;D

Sounds like what gay men find attractive. Well the tight jeans, hoody, and converses at least.

what lesbians find attractive is so different depending on the are you live in.

For example, where I live, lipstick lesbians are virtually unheard of. What lesbians here love are overweight women with buzz cuts, no makeup, plaid shirts, and men's blue jeans and boxer shorts.. And almost all lesbians fit this standard here.

About 2 hours south, its all lipstick lesbians, miniskirts and makeup. So yeah. Depends on where you are at too.

I know I've said this many times. But makeup can either make or break you. I don't apply 3 layers of foundation daily unless I am going to a nightclub. But I do a really nice foundation... You need a good foundation overall. No cover girl, no nothing.

I find poor makeup skills will "clock" anyone. I used to be really into makeup, but then I made the mistake of listening to the people in my 3 session therapy group(I assumed I needed it for hormones, but turns out I didn't) and told me not to wear as much. Biggest mistake ever. Makeup perfectly sets my beach/club style.

Putting effort into your look will influence how men perceive you. Of course, there's your raw elements and makeup will either emphasize or  subtle them. I had straight men hitting on me as a boy too.

But yeah, wear makeup. No makeup is bad.

Obviously I'm doing it all wrong. I very rarely wear any makeup. I wear tight jeans, and figure-hugging tops... So ya, there is a YMMV attached to pretty much everything related to clothing or style.

Quote from: Gravity's Child on September 23, 2011, 01:41:42 PM
Skinny Jeans, a very battered pair of converse all stars, a cute hoody and just enough makeup and effort applied to hair to make sure the world knows your a girl. Oh...and a skate board...that's the most important bit  ;D

Close... but I skate with blades or wheels stuck to the bottom of my feet, no board. ;)

Quote from: Annah on September 18, 2011, 08:24:31 AM
my rule of thumb: don't try to analyze what they are thinking.

You are not Counselor Deanna Troi (if you don't know her..google her).

You will go insane if you assume every stare or smile or weird look is because you're not passing.

Oh, to be a betazoid. Then again, that could be unpleasant.
I've got a horrible habit of assuming the worst, constantly, even though I've been getting weird stares for how I dress for years (I'll entirely admit that wearing big clunky boots and a trench coat, around here, is hardly normal).

I'm trying to get a bit better about it, and not glare at the rare person who actually checks me out. Key word, trying.