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Is it likely for someone starting HRT at age 15 to 'pass' 100% and blend in with normal society as a woman?
The main worries are voice (too late to stop obv.), face, upper body/shoulders, and height (5'10).

estrofem & spironolactone BTW.

Please don't reply if it's to say 'don't self-medicate' or 'see a doctor'.
It's a decision I've chosen to take after reviewing the benefits and risks.

Everyones different tbh. It depends a lot on the starting subject - bone structure, genes, etc. But i've seen people who have transistioned in their teens end up not passing and ive also seen ladies in their 50s/60s/70s who you would swear were born female.  :)

Like I said, everyone's different. Many women have deep voices, just like many have broad shoulders and theres many who tower over us 5'10s lol! Everyone comes in all shapes and sizes so have faith and a positive outlook and I wish you all the best.

PS I think its against the rules to post your doseages :)

X

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 Starting younger generally leads to better results, but it is by no means a free ticket. I started at 17 - considered fairly young by most people - and while my face and a couple other things have changed a lot.. making me passable and, so they say, pretty... I haven't developed in other ways that I would have liked to, like breastwise.

So, while starting young does mean you are more likely to pass and be beautiful, it does not necessarily entitle you to anything of the sort. :)

Quote from: Kelly J. P. on April 10, 2012, 06:41:18 PM
Starting younger generally leads to better results, but it is by no means a free ticket. I started at 17 - considered fairly young by most people - and while my face and a couple other things have changed a lot.. making me passable and, so they say, pretty... I haven't developed in other ways that I would have liked to, like breastwise.

So, while starting young does mean you are more likely to pass and be beautiful, it does not necessarily entitle you to anything of the sort. :)

Do you have a picture that you could share?

 Well voice can be trained with enough practice. there is nothing you can do about your height but other parts of your bone structure like shoulders,ribcage,facial structure can still be affected since you're still young and the growth plates havent completly fused together. Nobody can tell you if you'll pass 100% but your odds of passing are much higher then the average ts because of age alone.

  As long as you start hormones now and halt any further masculinization I think you will be ok. =P

  P.S - If you have questions about self-medicating you can pm me, talking about it in the forums is not allowed.

Quote from: MacKenzie on April 10, 2012, 06:44:30 PM
  P.S - If you have questions about self-medicating you can pm me, talking about it in the forums is not allowed.

There's a good chance that I won't need to ask any questions about it. My package has been held by customs as of 28 minutes ago. ^^

Head over to the "Before and After" thread for some inspiration. A few of the ladies there would have had trouble passing (no offense to those reading this lol!) but now when you see their pics, they really look lovely and better than the majority of the cis-girls I know!

Transistioning is a long arduous process but keep faith and you may be surprised
x

EDIT - customs are a Bastard arent they?! haha  ;)

You'll be fine. I'd kill to be able to start at 15 instead of almost 30. But even at 30, noticeable changes have come. You're 15... worry about other stuff like school cuz ... 15 is like the dream for most people to start at.

Get your hormone levels checked though. That may force you to come out to someone, but since you're (probably) going thru puberty as a male and .. well tbh so much testosterone is being produced by your body it may just overpower any other drugs you're taking.

At 15, your chances of passing are excellent, and the ease to do so should be great, too. Of course, nothing is a guarantee of anything, but I think it's safe to say that you have roughly an arbitrary, very figurative 25-50% advantage over me, starting at 21, if you start now.

A few proven and unproven facts compilated by the non-expert me:

-People generally grow until they're 25. By starting now, you stop (or at least greatly slow) the process.
-Sometimes, a reversal is seen in masculine features developed before. The younger, the more likely they are to happen, and the more significant they should be. At 15, I think your chances are fairly good.
-The younger you are, the more the female characteristics will develop, statistically. And the younger you are, until a (pessimistic)18~(optimistic)25-year barrier, the more characteristics you will probably develop. For instance, it's believed that very few people starting after those years will develop female hips to a satisfying level, if anything even happens. Also, data seems to suggest that it's unlikely for breasts to ever reach Tanner stage 5 if transition is started older than that... even though that data can also be explained by the controversed use of progesterone and/or sub-optimal hormone regimens.
-In the vast majority of case, even if beard is present at 15, it won't be at its maximum for another 3-8 years. Starting now equals less hassle about
-I don't know about others, but my Adam's apple appeared towards the end of my 20th year. That's a little fortune you could save in tracheal shave.
-During the same year, my voice was partly ruined. I want my voice from a year ago back. If you're like me, trust me, even though a ten-year-old's voice is definitely preferable to a fifteen-year-old's, at twenty, you're gonna cry.
-Transitioning now means you can just change high schools if desired (fairly simple), live the hassles of social transition more easily and probably with less suspicion (a clueless 16-year-old is late, but a clueless 22-year-old definitely has something wrong somewhere), and start college/university/whatever as a a somewhat "full-fledged" female, without having to transition on the job or find another school with the same program.

To sum it up, even though starting in the early stages of/before puberty is the best, you're not far behind by starting during it, at 15.

Edit: I'll disobey you and still tell you that professional care is a lot better. But if for whatever reason you must self-medicate, BE CAREFUL. I'm going to give you these basic safety tips, which I hope will not be removed by moderators: I want it to be clear that I'm not encouraging you to self-medicate, just making sure that if you do, you put yourself at the least risk possible. After all, not only are you self-medicating, but you're doing it at at time of your life when your knowledge and wisdom are low AND your body is a complicated thing to manage.

-Have your levels checked (if your country allows patients to request tests themselves)
-Have risk factors checked, such as possible liver problems and family history of thrombosis, etc. checked. If you can't get them "honestly" checked, check for preliminary symptoms of those troubles and pretend you have them, so your doctor makes you do blood tests.
-Be extremely cautious with your doses, and never increase them quickly. More hormones than the maximum recommended increases risk, but REDUCES results, even at long-term.
-Use documents intended for professionals, read them carefully and make sure you understand them well. This might need research, since doctors obviously understand those things much more easily than you and I... Things like this document: http://www.bgtransgender.com/Guidelines/guidelines-transgnder%20primcare.pdf
-Don't go for injectables. Those are hard to do, arguably (yet also very contestably, as some say the exact contrary) less effective, but most importantly, they require to either be administered by a professional or someone who was carefully shown by a professional how to do it. Pills are most probably going to be the safest, simplest way for you to do it.
-Make sure wherever you get your medications from is a trusted place that will give you precisely what's on the label.
-Try to get unofficial help from a professional who knows what they're doing, if you can't get official help.
-Meet a doctor if complications arise. If needed, find a lie to cover up, but don't keep yourself from a possibly life-saving treatment out of fear or shame.
-Get an anti-androgen. Just estrogen, combined with high levels of testosterone in your teenager's body, might produce unpredictable results, such as more testosterone overall (conversion from estrogen and/or reactive additional T production), potentially toxic levels of hormones without effects, and probably a lot of other things.

Quote from: A on April 10, 2012, 07:36:34 PM
At 15, your chances of passing are excellent, and the ease to do so should be great, too. Of course, nothing is a guarantee of anything, but I think it's safe to say that you have roughly an arbitrary, very figurative 25-50% advantage over me, starting at 21, if you start now.

A few proven and unproven facts compilated by the non-expert me:

-People generally grow until they're 25. By starting now, you stop (or at least greatly slow) the process.
-Sometimes, a reversal is seen in masculine features developed before. The younger, the more likely they are to happen, and the more significant they should be. At 15, I think your chances are fairly good.
-The younger you are, the more the female characteristics will develop, statistically. And the younger you are, until a (pessimistic)18~(optimistic)25-year barrier, the more characteristics you will probably develop. For instance, it's believed that very few people starting after those years will develop female hips to a satisfying level, if anything even happens. Also, data seems to suggest that it's unlikely for breasts to ever reach Tanner stage 5 if transition is started older than that... even though that data can also be explained by the controversed use of progesterone and/or sub-optimal hormone regimens.
-In the vast majority of case, even if beard is present at 15, it won't be at its maximum for another 3-8 years. Starting now equals less hassle about
-I don't know about others, but my Adam's apple appeared towards the end of my 20th year. That's a little fortune you could save in tracheal shave.
-During the same year, my voice was partly ruined. I want my voice from a year ago back. If you're like me, trust me, even though a ten-year-old's voice is definitely preferable to a fifteen-year-old's, at twenty, you're gonna cry.
-Transitioning now means you can just change high schools if desired (fairly simple), live the hassles of social transition more easily and probably with less suspicion (a clueless 16-year-old is late, but a clueless 22-year-old definitely has something wrong somewhere), and start college/university/whatever as a a somewhat "full-fledged" female, without having to transition on the job or find another school with the same program.

To sum it up, even though starting in the early stages of/before puberty is the best, you're not far behind by starting during it, at 15.

Jeez I'm 23! Wheres the nearest cliff? :P lol only joking
x

Quote from: naiwuwro on April 10, 2012, 06:00:18 PM
Is it likely for someone starting HRT at age 15 to 'pass' 100% and blend in with normal society as a woman?
The main worries are voice (too late to stop obv.), face, upper body/shoulders, and height (5'10).

estrofem & spironolactone BTW.

Please don't reply if it's to say 'don't self-medicate' or 'see a doctor'.
It's a decision I've chosen to take after reviewing the benefits and risks.

I started at the age of 35. Haven't been clocked since October 2010. I will be 38 in a couple months

Age has something to do with it. That is true....but it also has to do with many many many things.

I started my voice training....I couldn't pass as a guy on the phone if I tried now....trust me I tried.

Don't look at the age as the opportunistic advantage to transition. Look at the experience you may gain or loose.

And if you don't want grief then keep the self medication to yourself. At your age and self medicating? I think it's beyond foolishness. Sorry for the harsh language...but ive seen perfectly healthy transgirls stroke out from it....in real life...not from stories I heard about. But that's all Ill say about that.

Good luck with everything

Oh my, so many posts during my edit.

Quote from: A on April 10, 2012, 07:55:19 PM
Oh my, so many posts during my edit.

Haha to be fair, its a looooonnnnnggg edit :P
X

EDIT - BUT my edit after reading your post, is that you offer sound and sage advice  :)
X

Can someone explain why everyone is against self-medicating?

For me there's really two options:

A) Continue crying myself to sleep every 3 days (yeah I have huge trouble with sleep due to depression) wishing I was a girl, probably commit suicide within a year (already tried twice before I realized that you can't drown yourself) and continue to hate myself more and more.
B) Self-medicate now and have like 40% chance of it turning out OK, feel much better as development of male secondary sex characteristics is halted or reversed

There's another that isn't really an option at all:
C) Try to do it legitimately, wait 2 years (researched it already and saw a doctor) for hormones, be 6'1 and manly by then, and maybe dead

At this moment in time, even though I advise against it (health>gender), I self medicate too, although I have an appointment with my nearest GIC. I couldnt wait for 6/8 months - NHS is great but it certainly has its weak points too!

BUT to clarify, Self-medicating may seem good, but its not worth your own health - excessive doses of hormones can upset your liver, bones and a number of other things

The NHS in the UK provides a good leaflet which explains a lot of the jargon; the legislatation may not apply to you per se, but it has a lot of useful informaion about the procedure(s)
http://transhealth.vch.ca/resources/library/tcpdocs/consumer/hormones-MTF.pdf

Quote from: naiwuwro on April 10, 2012, 08:14:38 PM
Can someone explain why everyone is against self-medicating?

Better safe than sorry is the main reason.  Entirely too many people don't do the proper research first and don't understand what appropriate dosages and common ranges are.  Too many people think that if Xmg feminizes than 2Xmg feminizes twice as fast or other ridiculous myths.

I did start with self medication and both my PCP and my Endo have kept their dosages the exact same I was taking, but I was cautious with my dosages.

Quote from: naiwuwro on April 10, 2012, 08:14:38 PM
C) Try to do it legitimately, wait 2 years (researched it already and saw a doctor) for hormones, be 6'1 and manly by then, and maybe dead

Why 2 years?  What country are you in?

Why are we against it?

1. Most, if not all, sources of non-prescription HRT are illegal or "barely legal" (as in should be illegal but there are law loopholes), and as such, are not checked for quality by official instances. As a result, you could get more or less anything for what you think is HRT. It may be to a lesser extent, but it's like people who buy cocaine from people on the street and can very well end up with baby powder, cocaine cut with something else, a cheap recipe of cocaine which is super toxic, etc.

2.You're no doctor, so you don't know ALL the contra-indications to HRT, ALL risk factors, etc. Plus you don't have experience with dose management.

3. HRT can (not very frequently, but often enough for it to be a concern) bring grave health consequences that are often not noticed until it's too late if no doctor follows you. Plus, you might be reluctant in seeing a doctor if something arises, since you're clandestinely doing things.

4. Self-medicating could get you banned from any legal care or coverage whatsoever (or so my psychiatrist threatened).

5. Some people have a genuine, strong feeling of being female, brought about by various other issues, most of the time similar but not identical, but are not transsexuals. I'm not saying it's your case, nor that it's ALL that frequent, but those people may end up feeling worse in the end, and might even commit suicide when they realise they've been wrong. However, most official paths have evaluations that, whilst they sadly turn back a few people who genuinely needed transition, are designed to turn people who need something else in the right way.

In the end, naiwuwro, I'm not saying that you must ABSOLUTELY NOT self-medicate, but that you should only consider it the VERY last resort.

The "regular" system does include some annoying, painful wait, for sure, but in cases where the advancement of puberty makes it clear that the body is being degraded quickly, if you get someone understanding and open-minded to listen to you (and you can be convincing), they might prescribe you puberty blockers, which would halt damage from T until they approve you for actual treatment. They might even greatly speed the process up. And all that's a huge help.

They might also refuse, but you'll never know if you don't try. If there's no convincing them, well, take your decision from there, but things would be much safer, simpler, cheaper and more comfortable if you could get what you need (withing a reasonable delay) through the official path, helped by qualified professionals.

You could also try if there are any trans-friendly special clinics in your country/region. Even in places where the official way is long, there are sometimes "informed consent clinics" which can be a good alternative to the official things, where you can get fast treatment from real professionals, with help from people who, just like the officials, deal with trans people often. And there's not even a need to worry yourself about doses or where your meds come from. There are only benefits.

  You shouldn't self-medicate any prescription drug but sometimes the ends justify the means. Many young trans girls going through male puberty would rather die then masculinize any further and if they're prevented from doing anything about it they either commit suicide or end up distancing themselves from people as a coping mechanism because they cannot function as males in society.

   Honestly though self-medicating isn't rocket science. There are tons of sites with all the information you need, tsdoityourselfhormones is a yahoo group that helps members with safety issues, doseage info etc.
 
     

Quote from: naiwuwro on April 10, 2012, 08:14:38 PM
A) Continue crying myself to sleep every 3 days (yeah I have huge trouble with sleep due to depression) wishing I was a girl, probably commit suicide within a year (already tried twice before I realized that you can't drown yourself) and continue to hate myself more and more.

That's more of an issue that can be helped through therapy....not estrogen

QuoteB) Self-medicate now and have like 40% chance of it turning out OK, feel much better as development of male secondary sex characteristics is halted or reversed

Where did you get 40% from??

QuoteThere's another that isn't really an option at all:
C) Try to do it legitimately, wait 2 years (researched it already and saw a doctor) for hormones, be 6'1 and manly by then, and maybe dead

What country are u from that requires you to wait 2 years? That's new to me.

Also....estrogen and spiro will not stop your height gain no matter the age you start.

I'm from Kishinyov, in Moldova.

sure you could. and the voice thing you could train that. as for 5 10 thats normal for models and sports woman

Quote from: naiwuwro on April 10, 2012, 08:14:38 PM
Can someone explain why everyone is against self-medicating?

I have some medical training.  BUT, I am not trained to deal with the endocrine system - if I really wanted to, I could quite easily get the meds legally and self medicate but I chose not to take the risk.

Wrong dosages with spiro have potentially fatal effects.  If you look up the known interactions of spiro, along with complications and how rapidly they can occur, you will realise that they're not candies that you just pop into your mouth and hope for the best.

Same with estrogens.  There are things that need to be monitored to keep you safe and healthy.

A's has given sound reasons to consider self medicating as a last resort, and I would agree with her post.

 Asks for pictures, doesn't comment on them...

As for why self-medicating is bad, I'd say it's only because it's possible to get tainted samples. As long as you run blood tests and obtain meds from a good source, it's pretty safe, and I wish I would've done it that way.

Also, if something goes wrong and I'm taken into the hospital unconscious, will they know what's wrong or should I leave a note on my desk or something explaining what's going on?

Quote from: luna nyan on April 11, 2012, 07:02:10 AM
A's has given sound reasons to consider self medicating as a last resort, and I would agree with her post.

Happy to be of assistance. I tend to feel useless these days.

Quote from: naiwuwro on April 11, 2012, 02:28:58 PM
Also, if something goes wrong and I'm taken into the hospital unconscious, will they know what's wrong or should I leave a note on my desk or something explaining what's going on?

Unless you get really crazy and swallow like 10x the dose or more and/or wait for many days feeling like crap without seeing anyone, no such thing should happen. But should it happen, yes, they will probably know what's wrong. And even if they don't, they can ask whoever called the ambulance for you.

Quote from: Annah on April 10, 2012, 11:17:08 PM
Also....estrogen and spiro will not stop your height gain no matter the age you start.

It would probably slow it to "what she'd have had from that point on had she been female", if you ask me, though.

I started at 29 and after 6 months of HRT I'm hotter than many mtf I've seen who started way younger than me and have been on HRT for longer and I have. I have nice B cups that I can bump to a D cup with push up bras too ^.^+.

Being young doesn't influence how receptive you are to HRT.

Even as young as 17 your bone structure can be irreversibly more masculine than mine was.

You need a certain amount of fat to see fat redistribution happening too. If your face is bony( which is often the case at such a young age) chances are you'll have poor facial redistribution which could make passing harder.

I get suspicious when people brag that they are prettier than most other MtF.

Quote from: Bexi on April 10, 2012, 06:06:50 PM
Like I said, everyone's different. Many women have deep voices, just like many have broad shoulders and theres many who tower over us 5'10s lol! Everyone comes in all shapes and sizes so have faith and a positive outlook and I wish you all the best.

PS I think its against the rules to post your doseages :)

X

I'm 5' 7" and I've not seen many cis women who tower over me or have broad shoulders? most cis women in my town are on average about 5' 5" tall. 

Quote from: Bexi on April 10, 2012, 06:06:50 PM
Everyones different tbh. It depends a lot on the starting subject - bone structure, genes, etc. But i've seen people who have transistioned in their teens end up not passing and ive also seen ladies in their 50s/60s/70s who you would swear were born female. 

I agree that a few who transition in their teens might not pass but I have seen some great passable transitions in their 20's and 30's but I don't think I've seen any 100% passable transsexuals who have been starting their transitions when they are over 50? but as you say it's all to do with genetics, bone structure, physical appearance and receptiveness to HRT and Anti androgens.

Really? I stay in a fairly large city and of my immediate female friends, only two are shorter than me, two are roughly the same size and 3 are taller than me! As far as i'm aware, we didnt meet up in basketball club  :laugh: But all my male friends, bar one, are taller than me  :-\

Again maybe its just genetics, maybe its something in the air around here or maybe everyone but me wears platform shoes.... :P

Quote from: Bexi on April 13, 2012, 08:45:59 AM
Really? I stay in a fairly large city and of my immediate female friends, only two are shorter than me, two are roughly the same size and 3 are taller than me! As far as i'm aware, we didnt meet up in basketball club  :laugh: But all my male friends, bar one, are taller than me  :-\

Again maybe its just genetics, maybe its something in the air around here or maybe everyone but me wears platform shoes.... :P

That's surprising as you are from Scotland also. I also find that most males are taller than me but not many females are taller. What height are you? and are your female friends wearing heels when they are out with you? I'm 5' 7" and find I'm taller than most females in my area.  When I travel south to London I find there are more taller females.
 

Im probably closer to 5'9 than 5'10, strangely enough i'm a triplet but both my brothers are easily 4/5 inches taller than me.

Lol my female friends sometimes wear heels on nights out, but without them on there are still 5 who are the same size, if not taller. Ironically the tallest one is about 6'3 and on occassion wears heels to tell us when danger is near  :P.

Are you also from Scotland?   

I recently joined Susan's so this is my first reply. Obviously people are different physically when they start transition. I started quite late because I was afraid to accept my true self. Anyway after lots of work with my wonderful therapist I fully accepted my GID and started transition in earnest. My therapist works closely with an excellent doctor so together they guided me carefully through HRT. By the way I was lucky because I am 5'7" 130 lbs with small bones and soft features. I needed to get rid of my beard so I got intensive electrolysis (I n my opinion getting rid of your beard is extremely important) and started voice training. After 6 months of HRT and knowing full well I was on the right path I got an orci. It was the right thing for me as the estrogen shots were no longer inhibited by T and my clothes fit much better. One year after starting HRT I had breast implants. I plan SRS next year. As for results, I am totally passable and live full time as a woman. All my legal documents have been changed and I have not been clocked in a year. In summary transition is possible at a late age but the earlier you start the better. Many of us were not able to start when we were young but if you really have GID it will not go away and you need to accept your self and go forward no matter what your age.

Quote from: Bexi on April 13, 2012, 09:21:03 AM
Im probably closer to 5'9 than 5'10, strangely enough i'm a triplet but both my brothers are easily 4/5 inches taller than me.

Lol my female friends sometimes wear heels on nights out, but without them on there are still 5 who are the same size, if not taller. Ironically the tallest one is about 6'3 and on occassion wears heels to tell us when danger is near  :P.

Are you also from Scotland?

My brother is tall, not sure how tall he is but he towers over me and must be about 6 foot something. My sister is the same height as me but she was classed as tall when she was a teenager. We are both 5' 7".  I'm not from Scotland originally.

Quote from: susanewing on April 13, 2012, 09:57:06 AM
I recently joined Susan's so this is my first reply. Obviously people are different physically when they start transition. I started quite late because I was afraid to accept my true self. Anyway after lots of work with my wonderful therapist I fully accepted my GID and started transition in earnest. My therapist works closely with an excellent doctor so together they guided me carefully through HRT. By the way I was lucky because I am 5'7" 130 lbs with small bones and soft features. I needed to get rid of my beard so I got intensive electrolysis (I n my opinion getting rid of your beard is extremely important) and started voice training. After 6 months of HRT and knowing full well I was on the right path I got an orci. It was the right thing for me as the estrogen shots were no longer inhibited by T and my clothes fit much better. One year after starting HRT I had breast implants. I plan SRS next year. As for results, I am totally passable and live full time as a woman. All my legal documents have been changed and I have not been clocked in a year. In summary transition is possible at a late age but the earlier you start the better. Many of us were not able to start when we were young but if you really have GID it will not go away and you need to accept your self and go forward no matter what your age.

Great post susanewing!

i started HRT at 21, and it has worked nicely for me... I am now 23 ... I have C cup breasts and a nice little figure...i have been told by woman that I look cute in jeans...

and I am light smoker, which is a big no no when on hormones... everyone reacts differently to the hormones

Quote from: Naturally Blonde on April 13, 2012, 10:05:22 AM
My brother is tall, not sure how tall he is but he towers over me and must be about 6 foot something. My sister is the same height as me but she was classed as tall when she was a teenager. We are both 5' 7".  I'm not from Scotland originally.

I must have absurdly tall friends then hehe! Most of my family is from Scotland with a smattering of English, Welsh, Swedish and German thrown in just to make things interesting!

Regarding the hormones - ive been on HRT for nearly 6 months and my breast development is quite good. I haven't measured them since the turn of the year, but they have shown definite improvement and are near impossible to conceal (should I choose). ALL the women in my family have large busts, and i've always been slim/muscled due to my lifestyle and hobbies, so I think thats helped in my honest opinion. The muscles in my shoulders and arms have reduced too, and ive always had small wrists; so my arms appear softer. Bad thing is my calfs and thighs, which are probably as lethal as Xenia Onatopp's!  :embarrassed:

Quote from: susanewing on April 13, 2012, 10:05:22 AM
I recently joined Susan's so this is my first reply. Obviously people are different physically when they start transition. I started quite late because I was afraid to accept my true self. Anyway after lots of work with my wonderful therapist I fully accepted my GID and started transition in earnest. My therapist works closely with an excellent doctor so together they guided me carefully through HRT. By the way I was lucky because I am 5'7" 130 lbs with small bones and soft features. I needed to get rid of my beard so I got intensive electrolysis (I n my opinion getting rid of your beard is extremely important) and started voice training. After 6 months of HRT and knowing full well I was on the right path I got an orci. It was the right thing for me as the estrogen shots were no longer inhibited by T and my clothes fit much better. One year after starting HRT I had breast implants. I plan SRS next year. As for results, I am totally passable and live full time as a woman. All my legal documents have been changed and I have not been clocked in a year. In summary transition is possible at a late age but the earlier you start the better. Many of us were not able to start when we were young but if you really have GID it will not go away and you need to accept your self and go forward no matter what your age.

Totally 100% agree - loss of the beard really opens up the face and is way more feminine  :P Obviously ::) :)
X

I started at 40 and now at 49, I still have tiny breasts, but I have a halfway decent shape and not particularly hideous looking.  I don't have any issues with my height either which is 5'10".

All of it just depends on how well you respond to hormones and how much money you have for surgeries. I've taken the low budget route, low dose hormones and no surgeries yet. Being poor and transitioning does kind of suck.

Quote from: Jaime on April 13, 2012, 12:33:09 PM
I started at 40 and now at 49, I still have tiny breasts, but I have a halfway decent shape and not particularly hideous looking.  I don't have any issues with my height either which is 5'10".

All of it just depends on how well you respond to hormones and how much money you have for surgeries. I've taken the low budget route, low dose hormones and no surgeries yet. Being poor and transitioning does kind of suck.

Totally! Im saving up for FFS but as im still at university its a sloooowwwwwwwww process. Whilst im at work, I just put my intention to transistion in the back of my mind (im still stealth) and focus solely on doing the job at hand and increasing my bank account. Unlike surgeries, the hormones make miniscule changes over time, which we dont realise or appreciate, but im determined to wait and see how well they affect me before I choose to do anything more ... dramatic

Quote from: Bexi on April 13, 2012, 12:19:43 PM
Regarding the hormones - ive been on HRT for nearly 6 months and my breast development is quite good. I haven't measured them since the turn of the year, but they have shown definite improvement and are near impossible to conceal (should I choose). ALL the women in my family have large busts, and i've always been slim/muscled due to my lifestyle and hobbies, so I think thats helped in my honest opinion. The muscles in my shoulders and arms have reduced too, and ive always had small wrists; so my arms appear softer. Bad thing is my calfs and thighs, which are probably as lethal as Xenia Onatopp's!  :embarrassed:
Totally 100% agree - loss of the beard really opens up the face and is way more feminine  :P Obviously ::) :)
X

My experiences are different. I have been on prescription HRT for about 14 years now and the changes I have achieved are very slight. I assume I would do well with transition as I was often perceived as female long before transition and thought I would transition well. But HRT hasn't done the things I thought it would. My breast development is small although just recently they have started to grow a little and I'm starting to get more fat on my legs and thighs. But it's taken me over a decade to achieve this.

Quote from: Annah on April 10, 2012, 11:17:08 PM

What country are u from that requires you to wait 2 years? That's new to me.

Annah, in my state, the law is that you can't start HRT, even with parental consent (or so I was told), until you are at least eighteen. I honestly think this is unfair if the individual is sure that they are transsexual , especially since most people will have gone through the majority of their puberty by that time, meaning their epiphyseal plates will have closed and most of their secondary sex characteristics will have developed. Again, to people who are already positive they are in the wrong body at a young age, to watch it worsen and work against them is likely going to seem like torture.
  What I'm saying is that I've definitely heard of people being told that they have to wait and that it sucks, but yes, some places do still approach it that way.

Started at 17, and i'm 8 months in.

Haven't really noticed any changes that are drastic compared to transitioning girls who started HRT in their early 20's.
Maybe the estrogen isn't affecting me that much.

Quote from: Annah on April 11, 2012, 08:40:53 PM
I get suspicious when people brag that they are prettier than most other MtF.

I am pretty hot tho.
for being all ~natural~

Quote from: JoeyD on April 13, 2012, 01:19:27 PM
I am pretty hot tho.
for being all ~natural~

It's good you have confidence in yourself. I don't have any confidence and think I need a re-work!

Quote from: JasonRX on April 13, 2012, 12:59:05 PM
Annah, in my state, the law is that you can't start HRT, even with parental consent (or so I was told), until you are at least eighteen.

Not 100% sure, but I think most countries that don't allow HRT until 18 still permit the use of puberty blockers before that, so that secondary sex characteristics don't develop any further (or not much), everything depending on the open-mindedness, competence and opinion of the prescribing professional. As long as the professional is understanding, I think that in that case, it's quite an acceptable system: you don't exactly get to live a normal teenage girl/boy's life like you'd liked, but you can still do it (you theoretically remain androgynous, so I guess it's possible to pass) somehow, and, well, HRT is supposedly almost as effective at 18 as if you'd done it when you started blockers.

I'm 25, 6'10", and I have a mild receding hairline.  I am 2 days on estrogen and one month spiro.  I'm also a full-time student and work 32 hours a week.  Nothing worth having will come easy, and whether or not you start estrogen now or 2 years from now, IT WILL NOT CURE YOUR DEPRESSION.  You still will never bear children, never have a period, and more than likely never nurse a child.  Your hipbones and height and shoulder width (the skeletal width) will not change.  You may still have to do voice work, hair removal, possible ffs, and of course the costs and pain of srs and recovery.

You need to speak with a licensed psychologist.  This is not something that can be cured ... EVER.  You need to develop healthier behaviors for coping with your pain and you need to realize the blessing and virtues of your life, even if it means that these things remain outside the realm of your control.

Don't risk your health and your chance to experience the wonders and joys of life.  There is so much beauty in this world to throw it all away because you have a penis.

Quote from: Dhamma on April 14, 2012, 03:06:47 PMI'm also a full-time student and work 32 hours a week.

[offtopic]This is such a sad situation. Students shouldn't have to work so much...[/offtopic]

Apart from this, I think I missed something. Was this about depression? Can you put me back on track?

  Yeah T blockers are not enough, your limbs will still grow that's why alot of ts that transition really young are tall. They didn't receive estrogen treatments only T-blockers. If you take away T then you need some other sex hormones there to replace it.

  If you read the stories of some ts girls who started young and their parents or even they themselves got access to black market hormones and self-medicated estrogen & T-blockers they turned out small and petite like most women.

Different people, different bodies, different results... however, the bottom line is, you generally have an easier transition if you're in your teens, early 20s, or even younger that both (which is very rare, by the way). Unfortunately, I only figured out I was trans just after my 18th birthday... so my voice was already long gone in the male range. It depresses me to think about how things would be different had I only realized things sooner... but, even then, there is no saying what my family would have thought and done about it or even if I would have gotten on hormones at that age. Oh well... it is what it is, I guess.

MacKenzie: I was not talking about T blockers, but puberty blockers. Those do not halt growth, all right, but it slows it. Unless I deeply misunderstood something, someone on puberty blockers would definitely not grow as though they were going through male puberty.

Quote from: A on April 14, 2012, 07:05:28 PM
MacKenzie: I was not talking about T blockers, but puberty blockers. Those do not halt growth, all right, but it slows it. Unless I deeply misunderstood something, someone on puberty blockers would definitely not grow as though they were going through male puberty.

Oh sorry I misunderstood you. Aren't T-blockers and puberty blockers the same thing though?

Nope. Puberty blockers, if I remember well, inhibit the production of FSH and LH, which trigger pubertal maturation in many, if not all, aspects. They also incidentally work as T blockers, since it's those hormones that make the gonads produce hormone levels typical of teenage people.

Quote from: A on April 14, 2012, 08:44:59 PM
Nope. Puberty blockers, if I remember well, inhibit the production of FSH and LH, which trigger pubertal maturation in many, if not all, aspects. They also incidentally work as T blockers, since it's those hormones that make the gonads produce hormone levels typical of teenage people.

That's interesting I really had no idea there were puberty blockers.
I guess you do learn something new everyday!  :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone_replacement_therapy_%28male-to-female%29#GnRH_agonists

Actually, it's GnRH that's blocked, which in turn stops FSH and LH, which in turn blocks T. Quite the chain reaction.

Quote from: JoeyD on April 13, 2012, 01:19:27 PM
I am pretty hot tho.
for being all ~natural~

LOL :P

Quote from: Dhamma on April 14, 2012, 03:06:47 PM
I am 2 days on estrogen and one month spiro. whether or not you start estrogen now or 2 years from now, IT WILL NOT CURE YOUR DEPRESSION.

It cured mine. I haven't taken any form of depression medicine since March 2010.  YMMV

More than the age, is the genetics of each individual. In my case -and I am not comparing to anybody- a few years of spiro and 1/2 year of estro did the trick; but to start with I did not have facial or body hair to speak off, and my face features were soft...lucky me.

Voice is critical, and I am working on it.

Quote from: JoeyD on April 13, 2012, 01:19:27 PM
I am pretty hot tho.
for being all ~natural~

Yes you are pretty HOT, you go girl !!!!