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Starting age and results

Started by naiwuwro, April 10, 2012, 06:00:18 PM

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naiwuwro

Is it likely for someone starting HRT at age 15 to 'pass' 100% and blend in with normal society as a woman?
The main worries are voice (too late to stop obv.), face, upper body/shoulders, and height (5'10).

estrofem & spironolactone BTW.

Please don't reply if it's to say 'don't self-medicate' or 'see a doctor'.
It's a decision I've chosen to take after reviewing the benefits and risks.
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Bexi

Everyones different tbh. It depends a lot on the starting subject - bone structure, genes, etc. But i've seen people who have transistioned in their teens end up not passing and ive also seen ladies in their 50s/60s/70s who you would swear were born female.  :)

Like I said, everyone's different. Many women have deep voices, just like many have broad shoulders and theres many who tower over us 5'10s lol! Everyone comes in all shapes and sizes so have faith and a positive outlook and I wish you all the best.

PS I think its against the rules to post your doseages :)

X
Sometimes you have to trust people to understand you are not perfect
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V M

The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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Kelly J. P.

 Starting younger generally leads to better results, but it is by no means a free ticket. I started at 17 - considered fairly young by most people - and while my face and a couple other things have changed a lot.. making me passable and, so they say, pretty... I haven't developed in other ways that I would have liked to, like breastwise.

So, while starting young does mean you are more likely to pass and be beautiful, it does not necessarily entitle you to anything of the sort. :)
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naiwuwro

Quote from: Kelly J. P. on April 10, 2012, 06:41:18 PM
Starting younger generally leads to better results, but it is by no means a free ticket. I started at 17 - considered fairly young by most people - and while my face and a couple other things have changed a lot.. making me passable and, so they say, pretty... I haven't developed in other ways that I would have liked to, like breastwise.

So, while starting young does mean you are more likely to pass and be beautiful, it does not necessarily entitle you to anything of the sort. :)
Do you have a picture that you could share?
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MacKenzie

 Well voice can be trained with enough practice. there is nothing you can do about your height but other parts of your bone structure like shoulders,ribcage,facial structure can still be affected since you're still young and the growth plates havent completly fused together. Nobody can tell you if you'll pass 100% but your odds of passing are much higher then the average ts because of age alone.

  As long as you start hormones now and halt any further masculinization I think you will be ok. =P

  P.S - If you have questions about self-medicating you can pm me, talking about it in the forums is not allowed.
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naiwuwro

Quote from: MacKenzie on April 10, 2012, 06:44:30 PM
  P.S - If you have questions about self-medicating you can pm me, talking about it in the forums is not allowed.
There's a good chance that I won't need to ask any questions about it. My package has been held by customs as of 28 minutes ago. ^^
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Bexi

Head over to the "Before and After" thread for some inspiration. A few of the ladies there would have had trouble passing (no offense to those reading this lol!) but now when you see their pics, they really look lovely and better than the majority of the cis-girls I know!

Transistioning is a long arduous process but keep faith and you may be surprised
x

EDIT - customs are a Bastard arent they?! haha  ;)
Sometimes you have to trust people to understand you are not perfect
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Alainaluvsu

You'll be fine. I'd kill to be able to start at 15 instead of almost 30. But even at 30, noticeable changes have come. You're 15... worry about other stuff like school cuz ... 15 is like the dream for most people to start at.

Get your hormone levels checked though. That may force you to come out to someone, but since you're (probably) going thru puberty as a male and .. well tbh so much testosterone is being produced by your body it may just overpower any other drugs you're taking.
To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are.



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A

At 15, your chances of passing are excellent, and the ease to do so should be great, too. Of course, nothing is a guarantee of anything, but I think it's safe to say that you have roughly an arbitrary, very figurative 25-50% advantage over me, starting at 21, if you start now.

A few proven and unproven facts compilated by the non-expert me:

-People generally grow until they're 25. By starting now, you stop (or at least greatly slow) the process.
-Sometimes, a reversal is seen in masculine features developed before. The younger, the more likely they are to happen, and the more significant they should be. At 15, I think your chances are fairly good.
-The younger you are, the more the female characteristics will develop, statistically. And the younger you are, until a (pessimistic)18~(optimistic)25-year barrier, the more characteristics you will probably develop. For instance, it's believed that very few people starting after those years will develop female hips to a satisfying level, if anything even happens. Also, data seems to suggest that it's unlikely for breasts to ever reach Tanner stage 5 if transition is started older than that... even though that data can also be explained by the controversed use of progesterone and/or sub-optimal hormone regimens.
-In the vast majority of case, even if beard is present at 15, it won't be at its maximum for another 3-8 years. Starting now equals less hassle about
-I don't know about others, but my Adam's apple appeared towards the end of my 20th year. That's a little fortune you could save in tracheal shave.
-During the same year, my voice was partly ruined. I want my voice from a year ago back. If you're like me, trust me, even though a ten-year-old's voice is definitely preferable to a fifteen-year-old's, at twenty, you're gonna cry.
-Transitioning now means you can just change high schools if desired (fairly simple), live the hassles of social transition more easily and probably with less suspicion (a clueless 16-year-old is late, but a clueless 22-year-old definitely has something wrong somewhere), and start college/university/whatever as a a somewhat "full-fledged" female, without having to transition on the job or find another school with the same program.

To sum it up, even though starting in the early stages of/before puberty is the best, you're not far behind by starting during it, at 15.

Edit: I'll disobey you and still tell you that professional care is a lot better. But if for whatever reason you must self-medicate, BE CAREFUL. I'm going to give you these basic safety tips, which I hope will not be removed by moderators: I want it to be clear that I'm not encouraging you to self-medicate, just making sure that if you do, you put yourself at the least risk possible. After all, not only are you self-medicating, but you're doing it at at time of your life when your knowledge and wisdom are low AND your body is a complicated thing to manage.

-Have your levels checked (if your country allows patients to request tests themselves)
-Have risk factors checked, such as possible liver problems and family history of thrombosis, etc. checked. If you can't get them "honestly" checked, check for preliminary symptoms of those troubles and pretend you have them, so your doctor makes you do blood tests.
-Be extremely cautious with your doses, and never increase them quickly. More hormones than the maximum recommended increases risk, but REDUCES results, even at long-term.
-Use documents intended for professionals, read them carefully and make sure you understand them well. This might need research, since doctors obviously understand those things much more easily than you and I... Things like this document: http://www.bgtransgender.com/Guidelines/guidelines-transgnder%20primcare.pdf
-Don't go for injectables. Those are hard to do, arguably (yet also very contestably, as some say the exact contrary) less effective, but most importantly, they require to either be administered by a professional or someone who was carefully shown by a professional how to do it. Pills are most probably going to be the safest, simplest way for you to do it.
-Make sure wherever you get your medications from is a trusted place that will give you precisely what's on the label.
-Try to get unofficial help from a professional who knows what they're doing, if you can't get official help.
-Meet a doctor if complications arise. If needed, find a lie to cover up, but don't keep yourself from a possibly life-saving treatment out of fear or shame.
-Get an anti-androgen. Just estrogen, combined with high levels of testosterone in your teenager's body, might produce unpredictable results, such as more testosterone overall (conversion from estrogen and/or reactive additional T production), potentially toxic levels of hormones without effects, and probably a lot of other things.
A's Transition Journal
Last update: June 11th, 2012
No more updates
  •  

Bexi

Quote from: A on April 10, 2012, 07:36:34 PM
At 15, your chances of passing are excellent, and the ease to do so should be great, too. Of course, nothing is a guarantee of anything, but I think it's safe to say that you have roughly an arbitrary, very figurative 25-50% advantage over me, starting at 21, if you start now.

A few proven and unproven facts compilated by the non-expert me:

-People generally grow until they're 25. By starting now, you stop (or at least greatly slow) the process.
-Sometimes, a reversal is seen in masculine features developed before. The younger, the more likely they are to happen, and the more significant they should be. At 15, I think your chances are fairly good.
-The younger you are, the more the female characteristics will develop, statistically. And the younger you are, until a (pessimistic)18~(optimistic)25-year barrier, the more characteristics you will probably develop. For instance, it's believed that very few people starting after those years will develop female hips to a satisfying level, if anything even happens. Also, data seems to suggest that it's unlikely for breasts to ever reach Tanner stage 5 if transition is started older than that... even though that data can also be explained by the controversed use of progesterone and/or sub-optimal hormone regimens.
-In the vast majority of case, even if beard is present at 15, it won't be at its maximum for another 3-8 years. Starting now equals less hassle about
-I don't know about others, but my Adam's apple appeared towards the end of my 20th year. That's a little fortune you could save in tracheal shave.
-During the same year, my voice was partly ruined. I want my voice from a year ago back. If you're like me, trust me, even though a ten-year-old's voice is definitely preferable to a fifteen-year-old's, at twenty, you're gonna cry.
-Transitioning now means you can just change high schools if desired (fairly simple), live the hassles of social transition more easily and probably with less suspicion (a clueless 16-year-old is late, but a clueless 22-year-old definitely has something wrong somewhere), and start college/university/whatever as a a somewhat "full-fledged" female, without having to transition on the job or find another school with the same program.

To sum it up, even though starting in the early stages of/before puberty is the best, you're not far behind by starting during it, at 15.
Jeez I'm 23! Wheres the nearest cliff? :P lol only joking
x
Sometimes you have to trust people to understand you are not perfect
  •  

Annah

Quote from: naiwuwro on April 10, 2012, 06:00:18 PM
Is it likely for someone starting HRT at age 15 to 'pass' 100% and blend in with normal society as a woman?
The main worries are voice (too late to stop obv.), face, upper body/shoulders, and height (5'10).

estrofem & spironolactone BTW.

Please don't reply if it's to say 'don't self-medicate' or 'see a doctor'.
It's a decision I've chosen to take after reviewing the benefits and risks.

I started at the age of 35. Haven't been clocked since October 2010. I will be 38 in a couple months

Age has something to do with it. That is true....but it also has to do with many many many things.

I started my voice training....I couldn't pass as a guy on the phone if I tried now....trust me I tried.

Don't look at the age as the opportunistic advantage to transition. Look at the experience you may gain or loose.

And if you don't want grief then keep the self medication to yourself. At your age and self medicating? I think it's beyond foolishness. Sorry for the harsh language...but ive seen perfectly healthy transgirls stroke out from it....in real life...not from stories I heard about. But that's all Ill say about that.

Good luck with everything
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A

Oh my, so many posts during my edit.
A's Transition Journal
Last update: June 11th, 2012
No more updates
  •  

Bexi

Quote from: A on April 10, 2012, 07:55:19 PM
Oh my, so many posts during my edit.
Haha to be fair, its a looooonnnnnggg edit :P
X

EDIT - BUT my edit after reading your post, is that you offer sound and sage advice  :)
X
Sometimes you have to trust people to understand you are not perfect
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naiwuwro

Can someone explain why everyone is against self-medicating?

For me there's really two options:

A) Continue crying myself to sleep every 3 days (yeah I have huge trouble with sleep due to depression) wishing I was a girl, probably commit suicide within a year (already tried twice before I realized that you can't drown yourself) and continue to hate myself more and more.
B) Self-medicate now and have like 40% chance of it turning out OK, feel much better as development of male secondary sex characteristics is halted or reversed

There's another that isn't really an option at all:
C) Try to do it legitimately, wait 2 years (researched it already and saw a doctor) for hormones, be 6'1 and manly by then, and maybe dead
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Bexi

At this moment in time, even though I advise against it (health>gender), I self medicate too, although I have an appointment with my nearest GIC. I couldnt wait for 6/8 months - NHS is great but it certainly has its weak points too!

BUT to clarify, Self-medicating may seem good, but its not worth your own health - excessive doses of hormones can upset your liver, bones and a number of other things

The NHS in the UK provides a good leaflet which explains a lot of the jargon; the legislatation may not apply to you per se, but it has a lot of useful informaion about the procedure(s)
http://transhealth.vch.ca/resources/library/tcpdocs/consumer/hormones-MTF.pdf
Sometimes you have to trust people to understand you are not perfect
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Jeneva

Quote from: naiwuwro on April 10, 2012, 08:14:38 PM
Can someone explain why everyone is against self-medicating?
Better safe than sorry is the main reason.  Entirely too many people don't do the proper research first and don't understand what appropriate dosages and common ranges are.  Too many people think that if Xmg feminizes than 2Xmg feminizes twice as fast or other ridiculous myths.

I did start with self medication and both my PCP and my Endo have kept their dosages the exact same I was taking, but I was cautious with my dosages.

Quote from: naiwuwro on April 10, 2012, 08:14:38 PM
C) Try to do it legitimately, wait 2 years (researched it already and saw a doctor) for hormones, be 6'1 and manly by then, and maybe dead
Why 2 years?  What country are you in?
Blessed Be!

Jeneva Caroline Samples
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A

Why are we against it?

1. Most, if not all, sources of non-prescription HRT are illegal or "barely legal" (as in should be illegal but there are law loopholes), and as such, are not checked for quality by official instances. As a result, you could get more or less anything for what you think is HRT. It may be to a lesser extent, but it's like people who buy cocaine from people on the street and can very well end up with baby powder, cocaine cut with something else, a cheap recipe of cocaine which is super toxic, etc.

2.You're no doctor, so you don't know ALL the contra-indications to HRT, ALL risk factors, etc. Plus you don't have experience with dose management.

3. HRT can (not very frequently, but often enough for it to be a concern) bring grave health consequences that are often not noticed until it's too late if no doctor follows you. Plus, you might be reluctant in seeing a doctor if something arises, since you're clandestinely doing things.

4. Self-medicating could get you banned from any legal care or coverage whatsoever (or so my psychiatrist threatened).

5. Some people have a genuine, strong feeling of being female, brought about by various other issues, most of the time similar but not identical, but are not transsexuals. I'm not saying it's your case, nor that it's ALL that frequent, but those people may end up feeling worse in the end, and might even commit suicide when they realise they've been wrong. However, most official paths have evaluations that, whilst they sadly turn back a few people who genuinely needed transition, are designed to turn people who need something else in the right way.

In the end, naiwuwro, I'm not saying that you must ABSOLUTELY NOT self-medicate, but that you should only consider it the VERY last resort.

The "regular" system does include some annoying, painful wait, for sure, but in cases where the advancement of puberty makes it clear that the body is being degraded quickly, if you get someone understanding and open-minded to listen to you (and you can be convincing), they might prescribe you puberty blockers, which would halt damage from T until they approve you for actual treatment. They might even greatly speed the process up. And all that's a huge help.

They might also refuse, but you'll never know if you don't try. If there's no convincing them, well, take your decision from there, but things would be much safer, simpler, cheaper and more comfortable if you could get what you need (withing a reasonable delay) through the official path, helped by qualified professionals.

You could also try if there are any trans-friendly special clinics in your country/region. Even in places where the official way is long, there are sometimes "informed consent clinics" which can be a good alternative to the official things, where you can get fast treatment from real professionals, with help from people who, just like the officials, deal with trans people often. And there's not even a need to worry yourself about doses or where your meds come from. There are only benefits.
A's Transition Journal
Last update: June 11th, 2012
No more updates
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MacKenzie


  You shouldn't self-medicate any prescription drug but sometimes the ends justify the means. Many young trans girls going through male puberty would rather die then masculinize any further and if they're prevented from doing anything about it they either commit suicide or end up distancing themselves from people as a coping mechanism because they cannot function as males in society.

   Honestly though self-medicating isn't rocket science. There are tons of sites with all the information you need, tsdoityourselfhormones is a yahoo group that helps members with safety issues, doseage info etc.
 
     
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Annah

Quote from: naiwuwro on April 10, 2012, 08:14:38 PM
A) Continue crying myself to sleep every 3 days (yeah I have huge trouble with sleep due to depression) wishing I was a girl, probably commit suicide within a year (already tried twice before I realized that you can't drown yourself) and continue to hate myself more and more.

That's more of an issue that can be helped through therapy....not estrogen

QuoteB) Self-medicate now and have like 40% chance of it turning out OK, feel much better as development of male secondary sex characteristics is halted or reversed

Where did you get 40% from??

QuoteThere's another that isn't really an option at all:
C) Try to do it legitimately, wait 2 years (researched it already and saw a doctor) for hormones, be 6'1 and manly by then, and maybe dead

What country are u from that requires you to wait 2 years? That's new to me.

Also....estrogen and spiro will not stop your height gain no matter the age you start.
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