Susan's Place Transgender Resources

**For the main point please skip to the bottom.**

This phrase has been burned into my brain by my sister who is the pastor of the church I go to.  I talked about this a few times but it's still bothering me.  When I told her I was transgendered she asked me what does that mean and I told her I feel like a male trapped in a woman's body.  She told me that I've had a "masculine spirit attached to me" because of a lot of things that happened to me as a child and because of that I've build up a wall.  I asked her to tell me what those bad things that happened as a child to me were and she refused to tell me.

She says that she knows for a fact that I'm not transgendered because "God doesn't make mistakes."  She brands being transgendered and homosexuality (which she is strongly against) on the same tree.

Then she questioned my spritual life.  I told her that it has grown and that I am slowly finding my peace with God about me being transgendered.  Before that I was not a spritual person.  I'm not religious but I do find my peace in many forms but that's for another thread.

After that she basically disagreed about my spritual life and told told me to open myself up to God and you will know when deliverance will happen because tears will fall from my eyes.






I think it's selfish of her to say something like that.  If that's the case how do you explain those who were born with birth defects?  What about people who were born intersex?  I view what I have as a birth defect.  She doesn't know what I had to go through because she has had the luck of being a cis woman.  If she doesn't think we should alter our bodies then why do people get tattoos and hairstyles?  Should those who need surgery not get it?

I just wish she would take the time to understand.  However she's my sister and it hurts me that she would say that and it has me wondering what if I should stay as female and be miserable the rest of my life since obviously it was the way I was made.

Why should I be forced to be unhappy while everyone else can be content with their bodies?  If this truely not a mistake then gosh it's a cruel joke.

Of course "God doesn't make mistakes.".  Which means we were make to glorify His name as we are.

But then again, I am not Christian.  And the Goddess knows what She is doing.

Wow I didn't mean to post this thread.  I wanted to make it shorter so it wouldn't be as long and tedious to read for yall so I was going to start over.  Well since it's up I might as well continue so while you are reading this I'm going to edit the other post.

Sorry about that again.

I don't baleave that being trans is a mestake. I baleave we are who we are to show strantgh and will power to the world. We can show support and open mindedness to those that want to see. Stand firm to those that hate, and love all for who we are not what we are. " we can only be who we are no more and no less to do otherwise is to profane against the creator."

If there is a God, how can anyone truly know what he is thinking?
The people who assume they are speaking for God however do make mistakes and that resonates with me more than the latter.

Let's not turn this into a religion bashing thread please. Malachite is speaking of a very specific example of one person's beliefs and interpretations. The same does not apply to all practitioners of every religion.

Quote from: Malachite on May 20, 2012, 08:46:37 PM
Wow I didn't mean to post this thread.  I wanted to make it shorter so it wouldn't be as long and tedious to read for yall so I was going to start over.  Well since it's up I might as well continue so while you are reading this I'm going to edit the other post.

Sorry about that again.

It's okay, Malachite.  There is a contentious thread on the Intersex talk board which has drifted into the same general question.

Have you asked her to if she is wearing mixed fabrics, and if so where she would like to be stoned to death? Or whether she has eaten shellfish lately.  They are definitely listed as being big no-no's, compared to no real mention of transsexualism as such.

Karen.

Quote from: justmeinoz on May 21, 2012, 06:20:32 AM
Have you asked her to if she is wearing mixed fabrics, and if so where she would like to be stoned to death? Or whether she has eaten shellfish lately.  They are definitely listed as being big no-no's, compared to no real mention of transsexualism as such.

Karen.

I've let her know and told her that the Bible doesn't directly mention being transgender as and that's where she actually told me "yeah I know but God doesn't make mistakes".  I've told her that if she followed the Bible like she mentioned then techniqually she has no right to be a pastor since "women are to stay silent in church".  She just said that that certain part was related to particular women in the story and that it was old testament so no longer can be used.

I still haven't found any passages referring to transsexualism.  Has she been able to point any out, or is she just airing her prejudices?  If she is doing that she is commiting the sin of lying.
I bought a copy of the Bible last week so I could research the statements of trans and homophobic extremists.

Karen.

If (G)od doesn't make mistakes, then what about people with diseases, or other birth defects.

Perhaps those born with diabetes should not seek medication to control their diabetes and suffer a slow painful death rather than live a long and fruitful life.  They should instead read scripture (at age two) and see that (G)od loves them as their blood sugar drives them into an irreversible coma.

It's not a mistake when a infant is born with a club foot.  That child should suffer being an invalid all their lives because it's wasn't a mistake in the first place and the relatively simple surgery that would correct it and allow that child to be an olympic runner is an abomination to (G)od.  Rather they should seek comfort from the stories where Jesus healed the deformed and pray that he comes Tuesday, next week at 2:00 and schedule his healing.  Jesus is a very busy deity, you see.

It is an absurd statement to say that (G)od doesn't make mistakes.  We are all born as we are, and perhaps (G)od places these blessings-inside-curses on us to seek life and salvation.  Our spiritual path is not for any man to see.

What they are really doing when they say these incredibly ignorant and stupid lies, is cover their own ignorance and hatred in between the covers of the bible.  In their hearts they say that trans folks are icky.  But instead of trying to understand why they feel like this, and perhaps learning that this is a congenital condition as defined by modern medical and psychiatric research.  They take the easy path of stoking their fear into hatred and use the (B)ible to fan the flames.

* I use (G)od and (B)ible nomenclature to refer to the classic generalized, public belief of a superbeing in a white shirt and the adventures of creating a pocket universe that is in actuality only 5,000 years old, but shows all signs of being magnitudes older.

That which passeth all understanding is just that.  You cannot put God/Goddess/et-al in a box.  Nor use that white shirted image as an excuse to justify your hatred.  Well, you can, of course, it just makes you look stupid.

-Sandy

If God doesn't make mistakes how come Jesus cured diseases, and even supposedly raised Lazarus from the dead? 
Either Jesus, as God incarnate, changed his mind; or  deliberately killed Lazarus as part of an advertising campaign?  Either creates major theological quandries.

How would she react if you said you had found God, and were converting to whatever denomination is the most opposite to her's? 

Karen.

Quote from: justmeinoz on May 21, 2012, 07:14:48 AM

How would she react if you said you had found God, and were converting to whatever denomination is the most opposite to her's? 

Karen.

She would say it's "a trick from the enemy"

She can't complain then if you start praying for her soul as she is an Heretic!  ;)

Quote from: Malachite on May 21, 2012, 06:42:53 AM
I've let her know and told her that the Bible doesn't directly mention being transgender as and that's where she actually told me "yeah I know but God doesn't make mistakes".  I've told her that if she followed the Bible like she mentioned then techniqually she has no right to be a pastor since "women are to stay silent in church".  She just said that that certain part was related to particular women in the story and that it was old testament so no longer can be used.

See it's right there you should stop respecting her opinion. It's not about being Christan, You see this with most faiths and a lot of people. People don't believe what is written as is, but what they think matters and how it reflects their life. Which in a lot of cases is the mature approach, but you can easily become a hypocrite when you start picking and choosing. Nothing you say will ever change that as far as trying to win the argument. She's not interested in winning, She is trying to convince herself she has a reason to feel the way she does about your decision.

Your best option is to tell her that you think she is wrong and that you don't care if she thinks you are wrong or not what you say you are, because you define yourself and if god doesn't make mistakes then you were given this feeling of being out of place in your gender as a test to see if you can overcome the hardships of feeling prejudice from even your sister for just believing and being the person you are.

Bare: The Musical in Indianapolis - #26 God Don't Make No Trash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP0wNiUMO9c#)

I think this is appropriate

While the statement that God does not make mistakes is true,there is also the fact that we live in a broken world. Birth defects,illnesses,and death are all part of it. Some of these are from long term affects of pollution,altered foods and drinks,and lifestyle choices of the mother, and can also be caused by a mother being ill during pregnancy,and also just plain genetic degradation.

The problem is that it leaves out the fact that some of it may be man made consequences of actions taken years ago. How much we may never really know.

Think about this Was it the doctors and researchers who did not do enough research on Thalidomide, to know what the consequences would be,when given to pregnant women that caused the birth defects or was it God causing it?

God gets way to much blame for mans actions.

The answer I usually use is that there's no mistake, that G'D had given me the extra challenge of being transgendered and leading me to transition because G'D knows I'm up to the challenge.

Yeah, it rarely works. But that's the answer I use.

It is somewhere stated (by Paul, 2nd letter to the Corinthians? Annah..) that God does NOT give you anything you can not deal with.

I learned that just 1 or 2 days after my epiphany when I went in a total "state" to my homeopath (Christian) female practitioner.

It actually helped me to move straight into RLE.
But now... once she found out some few month later... my transitioning was not quite what "she" had had in mind for me, and so acted quite transphobic next time I saw her :)

Interpretations, interpretations, interpretation, eh? :)

Whether she now did like or dislike the result of her biblical message - it did help me!

So - bless her, hum
Axélle

Quote from: Axélle on May 21, 2012, 01:08:45 PM
It is somewhere stated (by Paul, 2nd letter to the Corinthians? Annah..) that God does NOT give you anything you can not deal with.

I learned that just 1 or 2 days after my epiphany when I went in a total "state" to my homeopath (Christian) female practitioner.

It actually helped me to move straight into RLE.
But now... once she found out some few month later... my transitioning was not quite what "she" had had in mind for me, and so acted quite transphobic next time I saw her :)

Interpretations, interpretations, interpretation, eh? :)

Whether she now did like or dislike the result of her biblical message - it did help me!

So - bless her, hum
Axélle

Axelle,

I am not sure but this may be the verse you may be thinking of.

1 Corinthians 10:12-14

12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 13 No temptation[c] has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted[d] beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted,[e] he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

BUT ALAS WHAT IS GOD


God is love
love is God
so i make
a resting place
in my heart
for LOVE/GOD

Quote from: SarahM777 on May 21, 2012, 01:44:21 PM
Axelle,

I am not sure but this may be the verse you may be thinking of.

1 Corinthians 10:12-14

12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 13 No temptation[c] has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted[d] beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted,[e] he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

Thank you dear!

Exactly what I was refering to.... "...And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it."

1 Corinthian 10:12 - 14 :)

Axelle

Quote from: Axélle on May 22, 2012, 05:48:58 AM
Thank you dear!

Exactly what I was refering to.... "...And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it."

1 Corinthian 10:12 - 14 :)

Axelle

Your welcome.

This passage has helped me far more than any other on this




Romans 8:18-30
New International Version (NIV)

Present Suffering and Future Glory

18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God's people in accordance with the will of God.

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.


Now while this does deal with the body there is a second part that is just as important if we are seeking a life that brings glory to His name  and that deals with our mind

Romans 12:1-3

Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is —his good, pleasing and perfect will.

That then bodes the question if my body is to be a "living sacrifice" is it going to be acceptable in His sight if I am doing something with it that is not in His will for me?

If she is going to be as obnoxious as all that have you told her you are leaving the Church because of her attitude? 
Or that you have realised that a belief in sky pixies is rather silly for adults, and you are now an atheist?

Karen.

It's midnight here and I just don't have the energy now to delve into this too deeply, but a few things:

1.  Thank you to everyone for keeping it civil to date and not turning this into a religion bashing thread.
2.  Your sister cares about you Malachite, but she has her world view regarding LGBT matters - they are all under the same umbrella in her eyes.  Some will differentiate between sexual identity versus sexual preference.
3.  I don't believe in my readings that there is anything specific regarding transgender in the bible other than Deuteronomy 22:5 regarding cross-dressing - but that is in reference to pagan rites of the area which the Israelites were about to settle.  You can argue all you want regarding eunuchs though =)

Regarding God does not make mistakes (based on bible):
1.  If you believe in the bible He does not.
2.  The world we live in is fallen due to sin, and that has caused all the problems (insert your gripe against God here) - prior to that the world was good but not perfect.

Following that argument, being trans is not because of God making a mistake, but as a result of the current state of the world (sinful and therefore not good, not perfect).

Dealing with the trans issue then boils down to your theology.  Theologically speaking - is your gender determined by your actual physical body/sex chromosome, your brain, or is it your soul?  Dependant on your point of view, then your interpretation of transgender in the bible will vary.

Hey everyone I wanted to thank everyone for your comments.  So far the hardest part about going through this is rewiring my brain.  I would believe that God would punish me on the operating table if I went through the surgeries and transitioning.  I know my sister cares for me but I also know how I feel.  I told her that I could feel closer to God when I feel more aligned with my body and she pretty much told me that the "I" kind of thinking is selfish which is actually VERY selfish to say on her part.  She even rejects what therapists would say because they are secular with their information and not working in the spirit realm   At that point I felt like she was coming at me with a double edged sword.  Like it was mentioned I just can't win with her.  At the end of the day I can't live for her or anyone else for that matter.  My spiritual path is different from hers just like everyone elses and not all pastors interpret the Bible the same.  She has her vision of what's right and wrong.  I'm working out that God loves me and he wants me to be happy.  That is the main thing.  I have spent my whole life so being miserable. 

Like I said earlier I view this as a birth defect and like almost any birth defect it needs to be corrected.  I wouldn't tell someone who was born with missing or deformed limbs or whatever may be the case that God doesn't make mistakes and that they need to accept who they are and now get their defects corrected.  Why would God want to deny me my happiness?  why would he want to deny ANYONE happiness?

Malachite, God doesn't make mistakes. You know that you are trans. There's a sticker in my bible that says God Made Me Trans. I'm sorry that your sister feels the way she does. Don't be discouraged. Educate yourself about transgender topics. You have a sense of who you are and that's great. You Do NOT have to live a life that you weren't meant to.