Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Kia Ora,

::) Rehashed, from an old threat... that wasn't locked  :angel:  :icon_joy:

It's a common belief that  People who are open Minded:
•   Are more accepting of others and have fewer prejudices
•   Are more optimistic and make the most of life
•   Have less stress because they are more open to change
•   Have better problem solving skills
•   Want to learn more, therefore are more interesting

As a trans-person do you think the above statements hold truth ? Especially number one....

::) When it comes to people doing their own thing, I like to think I'm very open minded, but not so open minded that my brains fall out !  ;) ;D

::) So how open minded are you ?

Happy Mindfulness  :icon_joy:

Metta Zenda :)

Tough question.
At first glance, I'd say I'm open minded.

Kia Ora FA,

::) One would think as trans-people our level of open mindedness would transcend that of the average cisgender, but for some [possibly due to ones upbringing] deeply held prejudices like those relating to race/colour/ sexual orientation might still linger...

::) Prior to transition [and due to my ethnic mix and the era in which I grew up, I lived in an all white family in 1950/60s racially divided Britain ] my acceptance of those of different ethnicity didn't eventuate till in my early teens... Up until then, I didn't feel entirely comfortable around other 'people of colour', I was in denial of not only my gender identity, but also my mixed racial heritage[Afro Caribbean father-Anglo Saxon mother]. I over came the racial mental block with relative ease, once I moved away from the UK, but my gender identity took hell of a lot longer to over come and accept...

I was never prejudice in a hostile way, it was more out of fear of being seen as 'one of those' [Which when I think back was irrational- After all, I was 'one of those'  :icon_yikes:] ...All this happened over 40 years ago...

Now as mention before "When it comes to the choices other people make - I like to think I'm very open minded...But not so open minded that my brains fall out !"


PS
::) I forgot to add, nowadays I'm just as open minded as the Pope is............................................................................................ not ! 

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Zenda on January 02, 2013, 12:45:35 PM
Kia Ora,


::) So how open minded are you ?

I like to think of myself as open minded, but what is open minded? I am definitely a card carrying skeptic when it comes to religion, ESP, aliens etc. I feel I have the right to question everything and at the same time not to expect answers for anything. If I need to know something badly enough, I can figure out how to learn that thing that I want to know.

In the political sense I am more limited in being open minded only because of my libertarian beliefs. I believe that rights are things that people have that cannot be undone or revoked ever. At the core of humanity are a certain set of rules that are fixed and define that nature if what freedom means. But my belief in that is far far different from the way our civilization is turning out today.

In 1996 a interesting person ran for president on the libertarian ticket, named Harry Browne. Just before the election I ran across one of his books at a tag sale called "How I freedom in an unfree world"  and bought it for 5 cents. It is just as relevant to read it today as it was when it was written, describing the kinds of traps that people build for themselves political personal financial. Once I set myself free I stopped worrying and stated living.

Did it make me more open minded? Maybe, or maybe it was just me finding more answers and freeing myself from what I didn't know before.

Quote from: Zumbagirl on January 02, 2013, 02:21:09 PM
I like to think of myself as open minded, but what is open minded? I am definitely a card carrying skeptic when it comes to religion, ESP, aliens etc. I feel I have the right to question everything and at the same time not to expect answers for anything. If I need to know something badly enough, I can figure out how to learn that thing that I want to know.

In the political sense I am more limited in being open minded only because of my libertarian beliefs. I believe that rights are things that people have that cannot be undone or revoked ever. At the core of humanity are a certain set of rules that are fixed and define that nature if what freedom means. But my belief in that is far far different from the way our civilization is turning out today.

In 1996 a interesting person ran for president on the libertarian ticket, named Harry Browne. Just before the election I ran across one of his books at a tag sale called "How I freedom in an unfree world"  and bought it for 5 cents. It is just as relevant to read it today as it was when it was written, describing the kinds of traps that people build for themselves political personal financial. Once I set myself free I stopped worrying and stated living.

Did it make me more open minded? Maybe, or maybe it was just me finding more answers and freeing myself from what I didn't know before.

Kia Ora Z,

::) "The more one learns-the less one fears !" Or so it would seem....

Quote from: Zenda on January 02, 2013, 12:45:35 PM
It's a common belief that  People who are open Minded:
•   Are more accepting of others and have fewer prejudices
•   Are more optimistic and make the most of life
•   Have less stress because they are more open to change
•   Have better problem solving skills
•   Want to learn more, therefore are more interesting

I think the above are quite true. I have been told, and agree, that I am very open minded. Especially when it comes to others living their lives. Just because they live in a way I don't want to live does not mean what they are doing is wrong. If it is right for them then it is right. I also agree with the less stress, better problem solving, and desire to learn more. I feel that the more open you are to life, the richer your experiences will be.

Quote from: Brooke777 on January 02, 2013, 03:11:16 PM
I think the above are quite true. I have been told, and agree, that I am very open minded. Especially when it comes to others living their lives. Just because they live in a way I don't want to live does not mean what they are doing is wrong. If it is right for them then it is right. I also agree with the less stress, better problem solving, and desire to learn more. I feel that the more open you are to life, the richer your experiences will be.

Kia Ora Brook,

::) You have a great outlook on life !

Metta Zenda :)

I've learned not to expect open-mindedness from others, which helps - and I'd like to be less judgemental than I am, but I'm told I'm still pretty good on that score. When I have my blind spots, it's usually because I'm scared "rigid" - and the same goes for other people, so I try to put them at their ease (though not at anyone's expense).

On the whole, I think the essence of open-mindedness is to ask instead of informing. I'm cultivating creative uncertainty even as we speak ;D.

Quote from: Padma on January 02, 2013, 04:07:54 PM
I've learned not to expect open-mindedness from others, which helps - and I'd like to be less judgemental than I am, but I'm told I'm still pretty good on that score. When I have my blind spots, it's usually because I'm scared "rigid" - and the same goes for other people, so I try to put them at their ease (though not at anyone's expense).

On the whole, I think the essence of open-mindedness is to ask instead of informing. I'm cultivating creative uncertainty even as we speak ;D.

Namaste Padma,

::) So true !  Wise as well as pretty, which makes you....pretty wise....

Metta Zenda :)

Honestly, I'm probably not "open minded" in the sense that I'm accepting of others who are significantly different in moral terms. I don't agree with moral relativism; morality is either absolute, or non-existent. I do consider myself open minded in that I'm not dogmatic in my views. I'm happy to discard a belief that is proven false.

Yeah, open-minded does not equal agreeing with everything.

Quote from: Padma on January 02, 2013, 04:28:08 PM
Yeah, open-minded does not equal agreeing with everything.

Which it shouldn't be.   There's being open-minded and then there's being so open-minded that your brain falls out.

I'm a pessimist, but I'm fairly open-minded.  I believe everyone has the right to believe what they want to, but I also have the right to believe that their beliefs are idiotic.  I'm also a skeptic and I question just about everything, including my own spiritual views.  I look to science first then I look at other things for what science can't explain.

I'm also open to the idea that I'm entirely wrong in my beliefs.

In a real world sense, I believe people should be able to do what they want assuming it doesn't infringe on the rights of others [such as how religions are practiced, what laws are created, murder, etc.] They can believe what they want and do what they want as long as they don't try to take away my liberties.

Anyway, I'd say I'm open-minded and willing to listen to other viewpoints.  I just can also believe that those viewpoints are stupid.

Kia Ora and thanks for the responses so far, my mind is 'open' to more  ;)

::) To be open minded can be as simple as having the ability to see where the other person's point of view is coming from, what has happened in their life for them to behave or express something in such a way and if what they say or do is or is not to ones liking, don't take it 'personally' let it flow through the mind unobstructed =open mindedness...People don't just do or say things just for the fun of it, there's always more to it  ::) unless that is, it 'was' just for fun.... ;)

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Zenda on January 02, 2013, 09:38:52 PM
Kia Ora and thanks for the responses so far, my mind is 'open' to more  ;)

::) To be open minded can be as simple as having the ability to see where the other person's point of view is coming from, what has happened in their life for them to behave or express something in such a way and if what they say or do is or is not to ones liking, don't take it 'personally' let it flow through the mind unobstructed =open mindedness...People don't just do or say things just for the fun of it, there's always more to it  ::) unless that is, it 'was' just for fun.... ;)

Metta Zenda :)

Empathy =/= Open mindedness.
It is possible to understand how someone feels and see why they feel that yet be totally accepting of their thoughts.

Objectivity vs taking personally =/= Lack of open mindedness.
It is possible to not take things personally yet feel they are entirely wrong.

---

Being "open minded" is such an umbrella term. One could type near anything in this thread :P
You can't really get much out of this without a tighter definition.

I do not think that being open minded necessarily means you are less prejudiced. You could be entirely willing to hear people and their opinions out, thus being open minded in that way. Yet you could also disagree with their opinions entirely. This does not necessarily make you closed minded though so long as you have a basis for your belief.

I do not think being open minded has anything to do with optimism or what you get out of life. You could be open minded yet pessimistic these are in no way mutually exclusive.

Why does being open to change result in less stress? I would imagine most of the people are on this forum are rather open to change. I would also imagine that many of us experienced a lot of stress in these changes...


--

The last two points you made seem to be using a different concept of open mindedness from the others. Open to ideas/education =/= open to people emotionally and accepting etc.

--

Personally I am open minded in some things and closed minded in others. It depends how strongly I hold a belief in something. However being the philosophical sort given enough evidence I have to change my opinion on something if it is shown to be so.

I would risk it and say I am however!

When i was really young I was beaten by a very macho man and so i developed androphobia to big strong muscular men, I suppose in a sense I have a prejudice to those kinda men.

However I am pretty chilled with anyones choices I even have a few Satanist friends(please if you hate them go die they are really nice people).

So i rate I am open minded I simply have a fear of most men  :)

Quote from: Seras on January 04, 2013, 04:21:12 PM
Empathy =/= Open mindedness.
It is possible to understand how someone feels and see why they feel that yet be totally accepting of their thoughts.

Objectivity vs taking personally =/= Lack of open mindedness.
It is possible to not take things personally yet feel they are entirely wrong.

---


Why does being open to change result in less stress? I would imagine most of the people are on this forum are rather open to change. I would also imagine that many of us experienced a lot of stress in these changes...

Kia Ora Seras,

::) I guess coping with stress for some is more along the lines of them being able to "Go with the flow" and not put up much resistance to the changes that occur[it tends to stress people out even more when they fight 'against' something instead of trying to find a way around it]...I wouldn't say many here are 'open' to 'all' the changes that come from them transitioning-open to the changes to their bodies perhaps, [ after all, that's what they've always wanted to happen] but as for the other changes, I don't think many are open to that...Being open to change can also mean accepting what 'is' and finding/looking for a way to cope with these changes.... 

"Psychological resilience is an individual's tendency to cope with stress and adversity.[1] This coping may result in the individual "bouncing back" to a previous state of normal functioning, or simply not showing negative effects.[2] A third, more controversial form of resilience is sometimes referred to as 'posttraumatic growth' or 'steeling effects' where in the experience adversity leads to better functioning (much like an inoculation gives one the capacity to cope well with future exposure to disease). Resilience is most commonly understood as a process, and not a trait of an individual.[3] !"

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Zenda on January 02, 2013, 12:45:35 PM
Kia Ora,

::) Rehashed, from an old threat... that wasn't locked  :angel:  :icon_joy:

It's a common belief that  People who are open Minded:
•   Are more accepting of others and have fewer prejudices
•   Are more optimistic and make the most of life
•   Have less stress because they are more open to change
•   Have better problem solving skills
•   Want to learn more, therefore are more interesting

As a trans-person do you think the above statements hold truth ? Especially number one....

::) When it comes to people doing their own thing, I like to think I'm very open minded, but not so open minded that my brains fall out !  ;) ;D

::) So how open minded are you ?

Happy Mindfulness  :icon_joy:

Metta Zenda :)

Good observations, Zenda, but let me play the "Devil's Advocate" here.

The "open-minded" are open to suggestion, thus easily manipulated.  They can be gullible and naive.

The open-minded can lack the attributes of reason and rationality, and become incapable of making a judgement or decision.  They fall into fads and for whims and can be conned.  All of which can be counter-productive.

Certainly, being close-minded or narrow-minded can be counter-productive as well.  But irrationality serves no good purpose.

I become more open-minded as time goes on. I don't just take things at face value. I need to research... a lot. And that research includes social interactions in many cases from people that have direct contact with whatever it is I'm trying to understand. Once I understand it, I tend to be okay with it, but that usually takes a long time for me.

Quote from: Zenda on January 02, 2013, 12:45:35 PM
Kia Ora,

::) Rehashed, from an old threat... that wasn't locked  :angel:  :icon_joy:

It's a common belief that  People who are open Minded:
•   Are more accepting of others and have fewer prejudices
•   Are more optimistic and make the most of life
•   Have less stress because they are more open to change
•   Have better problem solving skills
•   Want to learn more, therefore are more interesting

As a trans-person do you think the above statements hold truth ? Especially number one....

::) When it comes to people doing their own thing, I like to think I'm very open minded, but not so open minded that my brains fall out !  ;) ;D

::) So how open minded are you ?

Happy Mindfulness  :icon_joy:

Metta Zenda :)

This "common belief" has not been validated. That aside, I would say that patiently reading the posts of a Buddhist :angel: :laugh: :laugh: would qualify me as an "open minded" woman

well 8 months ago i was a conservative christian, and just look at me now, I am beginning to be so open minded that you can probably rent space up here now.

Thanks Zenda,

Nice thread. I'd have to say, I'm probably that opened minded, it's a wonder I don't get a cold.  ;D

Agree on all fronts without the least hesitiation. It's been an inground attitude for a very long time.

Be well.

Huggs
Catherine

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 05, 2013, 05:03:22 PM
well 8 months ago i was a conservative christian, and just look at me now, I am beginning to be so open minded that you can probably rent space up here now.

Oh, I have no doubt about that.

I am not that open minded, but many of my opinions are subject to change with learning, listening and experience.

Quote from: Pleasingly Plump Jamie D on January 05, 2013, 04:19:46 PM
Good observations, Zenda, but let me play the "Devil's Advocate" here.

The "open-minded" are open to suggestion, thus easily manipulated.  They can be gullible and naive.

The open-minded can lack the attributes of reason and rationality, and become incapable of making a judgement or decision.  They fall into fads and for whims and can be conned.  All of which can be counter-productive.

Certainly, being close-minded or narrow-minded can be counter-productive as well.  But irrationality serves no good purpose.

Jamie, I think you're confusing open-minded with simple-minded.

For me meaning-open minded means listening to an idiot speak or try to sell me something before I kick him/her to the curb.  I'm never convinced I'm right on everything - which is why I'm willing to listen to other's opinions.  But I use reason, logic, and intuition to determine if their thoughts or opinions are more valid than mine.

Open-minded and gullible is a bad combination.  Open-minded and skeptical (and intelligent) is not so bad.

I'm willing to listen, but I have the final decision in whether or not I buy into something.  :P

I never take anything at face value. I must always investigate.

As the song says, 'My mind aint so open that anything can crawl right in'.

Magazine - My Mind Ain't So Open (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rItxPQdSiEY#)

I don't know how open minded I am. That's usually something I leave to others to ascertain after knowing me.

I do try to be open hearted though. Many times I listen to my heart over my head.

When I think of the term "open minded" the definition that springs to mind is that of being able to entertain an idea without  accepting it (pilfered that line from Mark Twain), that and the corollary, being open to revision once you have accepted or rejected something already.  I guess when you take that attitude and map it onto social issues it generally means a more open and therefore friendly dialogue than a dogmatic stance could accommodate, and for that reason perhaps open minded becomes synonymous with tolerance?

By that definition I am open minded at least in principle, but in practice, being partial to the skeptical and materialistic interpretation of the world, I do tend to dismiss the more supernatural ideas faster than perhaps I should. When I hear someone talk of ghost's for example, I just sort of turn off before I've actually given them a fair hearing.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 05, 2013, 05:03:22 PM
well 8 months ago i was a conservative christian, and just look at me now, I am beginning to be so open minded that you can probably rent space up here now.

This is one of the things that seems to counteract in at least some individual cases the presumption that we are (as a group) open minded.

On the one hand, I was raised in a rather repressive sect of heretical Christianity (the Mormons). I took on a lot of assumptions from that, many of which took me a long time to recognize.

On the other hand, someone I was friends with when I was in the Army, starting language school commented to me that I was the most circumspect person he'd ever met. I do tend to personally look at things from many different points of view before trying to reach any conclusions, and I often find making judgment calls almost impossible unless I do it by accessing some semi-random means of making decisions. On the Myers-Briggs scale I come out fairly unambiguously as an INFP - Introverted, Intuitive, Feeling Perceiver -- a tiny group that's usually seen as almost rigidly idealistic -- the only thing you can do to upset me  is to betray your own principles and core feelings or intuitions. And when pressured to betray mine, I can become extremely stubborn and/or dysfunctional... that aspect might have a lot to do with how I am trans, but I'm not sure the Perceiving (as opposed to Judging) trait has anything to do with my being trans, it's just a core part of my overall personality.

I've run into many transfolk who come out on the other side of the spectrum and can be very judgemental, which to me often excludes open-mindedness, at least to some degree.

I'll have a hard time reaching any final conclusions on this without a much, much larger sample and some way to randomize it.
:)

I'm easily annoyed by all kinds of things, and would rather say my mind is ajar. I have plenty of prejudices, but try to be conscious of them and not let them influence how I treat others.

Quote from: John Smith on January 05, 2013, 08:51:42 PM
I'm easily annoyed by all kinds of things

Same here. For example, I get annoyed when people try to speak for me.

"(Attend your high school graduation//Have kids//Don't get a sex change). If you don't listen to us, you'll regret it."

Says who? You're not in my head nor do you know what goes on in there.

I would honestly like one person, for once, to give me an argument for any of those points besides them being the "socially acceptable" thing to do.

Quote from: SageFox on January 05, 2013, 06:38:29 PM
Jamie, I think you're confusing open-minded with simple-minded.


Open-minded and gullible is a bad combination.  Open-minded and skeptical (and intelligent) is not so bad.

Kia Ora SageFox,

::) I cracked up when I read the first line  ;D

::) The bottom line gets a thumbs up...That's a good way to view it !

Metta Zenda :)

How can you not be open minded when you're an airhead?  Yes, I'm open minded.  You can hear the air whooshing around in there :).

Quote from: Pleasingly Plump Jamie D on January 05, 2013, 04:19:46 PM
Good observations, Zenda, but let me play the "Devil's Advocate" here.

The "open-minded" are open to suggestion, thus easily manipulated.  They can be gullible and naive.

The open-minded can lack the attributes of reason and rationality, and become incapable of making a judgement or decision.  They fall into fads and for whims and can be conned.  All of which can be counter-productive.

Certainly, being close-minded or narrow-minded can be counter-productive as well.  But irrationality serves no good purpose.

Kia Ora Jamie,

::) I see where you are coming from...There are gullible people whose minds are open to suggestion, but as SageFox pointed out these people would more suit the term 'simple' minded...

However I guess the term Open Minded is wide open to definition, for example an open mind= allowing all kinds of crap to enter without the means to filter the information properly, but I like to think a more common approach would be that an open minded person would listen to the thoughts of others, chew it over, and if it doesn't taste right, [being too irrational= hard to chew], 'politely' spit it back out  - A simple minded person, more gullible by nature, is more likely to swallow it hook, line and sinker...

Metta Zenda :)

hey, Zenda,

Please give us an operational definition of "open minded"

Quote from: peky on January 05, 2013, 10:30:22 PM
hey, Zenda,

Please give us an operational definition of "open minded"

Kia Ora Peky,

::) Because you asked so nicely ...." Having an unprejudiced mind that's open to new ideas, arguments, etc[ but not so open that ones brains fall out], also one that's characterised by liberal views.= Broad minded "

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Zenda on January 05, 2013, 10:03:16 PM
Kia Ora Jamie,

::) I see where you are coming from...There are gullible people whose minds are open to suggestion, but as SageFox pointed out these people would more suit the term 'simple' minded...

However I guess the term Open Minded is wide open to definition, for example an open mind= allowing all kinds of crap to enter without the means to filter the information properly, but I like to think a more common approach would be that an open minded person would listen to the thoughts of others, chew it over, and if it doesn't taste right, [being too irrational= hard to chew], 'politely' spit it back out  - A simple minded person, more gullible by nature, is more likely to swallow it hook, line and sinker...

Metta Zenda :)

Thank you, Zenda.  I believe some posters missed that I was playing the role of "Devil's Advocate."  That term comes from the Catholic Church practice of giving an official the role of making skeptical arguments against the proposed sainthood of some person.

In debate, a devils advocate punches hole in the proposition, "to engage others in an argumentative discussion process."

How open-minded am I - I'm unsure.

To me, being 'open-minded' intones the capacity to listen to the opposition's cogent, civil, and coherent viewpoints and arguments, and upon hearing such arguments, be able to make a rational, thought-out decision and action upon such argument (free of anger, fear, emotion, or euphoria).

Open-mindedness is a two-way street - just as members in our community argue and advocate for certain laws, rights, and societal acceptances, obviously, those on the 'other side' will also have their own viewpoints RE: why our community is in the wrong.  Reasoned discourse between both sides is necessary, without negative name-flinging, anger, or devolvement into childish, boorish arguments and behavior.  One cannot consider oneself 'open-minded' if one is merely angry and  boorish when one doesn't get one's way. 

As this online forum declares - "We stand at the crossroads of gender balanced on the sharp edge of a knife."  This is a difficult journey for many, with the potential for a precipitous fall; we must walk this journey fully cognizant of ALL viewpoints on the matter of transgenderism, and be able to accept - or decline - through reason and intellect, such viewpoints with maturity and civility.  That (to me) would be open-mindedness. [This concept applies to issues other than LGBT issues, as well]

Quote from: summer710 on January 06, 2013, 09:51:19 AM
How open-minded am I - I'm unsure.

To me, being 'open-minded' intones the capacity to listen to the opposition's cogent, civil, and coherent viewpoints and arguments, and upon hearing such arguments, be able to make a rational, thought-out decision and action upon such argument (free of anger, fear, emotion, or euphoria).

Open-mindedness is a two-way street - just as members in our community argue and advocate for certain laws, rights, and societal acceptances, obviously, those on the 'other side' will also have their own viewpoints RE: why our community is in the wrong.  Reasoned discourse between both sides is necessary, without negative name-flinging, anger, or devolvement into childish, boorish arguments and behavior.  One cannot consider oneself 'open-minded' if one is merely angry and  boorish when one doesn't get one's way. 

As this online forum declares - "We stand at the crossroads of gender balanced on the sharp edge of a knife."  This is a difficult journey for many, with the potential for a precipitous fall; we must walk this journey fully cognizant of ALL viewpoints on the matter of transgenderism, and be able to accept - or decline - through reason and intellect, such viewpoints with maturity and civility.  That (to me) would be open-mindedness. [This concept applies to issues other than LGBT issues, as well]

Well said Girl! This^^ would be a wonderful way to proceed provided everybody is rational and emotionally mature. Regretfully that is not the case, and so the best we can do is maintain a dialog with those kindred spirit

Quote from: peky on January 06, 2013, 10:01:26 AM
Well said Girl! This^^ would be a wonderful way to proceed provided everybody is rational and emotionally mature. Regretfully that is not the case, and so the best we can do is maintain a dialog with those kindred spirit

Kia Ora Peky,

Very good point, when dealing with a person whose opinions [re-trans-people] are 'faith based', how can one maintain an open meaningful dialog ... When it's a mere mortal verses the supernatural...

I have an open mind, when it comes to a person's faith, but not so open that my brain falls out !

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Anatta on January 02, 2013, 12:45:35 PM
Kia Ora,

::) Rehashed, from an old threat... that wasn't locked  :angel:  :icon_joy:

It's a common belief that  People who are open Minded:
•   Are more accepting of others and have fewer prejudices
•   Are more optimistic and make the most of life
•   Have less stress because they are more open to change
•   Have better problem solving skills
•   Want to learn more, therefore are more interesting

As a trans-person do you think the above statements hold truth ? Especially number one....

::) When it comes to people doing their own thing, I like to think I'm very open minded, but not so open minded that my brains fall out !  ;) ;D

::) So how open minded are you ?

Happy Mindfulness  :icon_joy:

Metta Zenda :)

As a trans person do I believe that the above statements hold true?  What is "accepting", perhaps if trans people were "accepting" they would conform to what was between their legs.  Wouldn't that seem like the accepting thing to do? "I see that between my legs is [X] and Society deems that people with [X] between their legs are [X] so I will accept that I am [X]?

In my experiences and observations, when we accept someone else's choices typically we don't care, we have little attachment to what they choose or don't choose, or we decide to accept [whatever] because we want that other person to be happy.  And really what about trans people?  Often times trans people believe that if a trans man or trans woman just wants to be known as a man or a woman that he or she is not accepting the truth that he or she is trans.  Whereas that man or woman tends to be confused as to why other trans people doesn't understand how important it is for himself or herself to accept that he or she is a man or a woman.

What I have been noticing over the years is that there is this tendency of people to have to determine right away if something is true or false, right or wrong, right or left, on or off, black or white.  It is like most people are only capable of binary thought and it is impossible for them to entertain an idea without either finding fault with it or determining it is correct.  In the United States we have two major political parties however since the death of John F. Kennedy all presidents, regardless of political affiliation are Hell bent on Collectivism.  And it seems as though that philosophical Collectivism is being applied to everything.  Everyone is a winner, better to send someone to the next grade than to ensure they have a good education.  Men are exactly the same thing as women.  Muslims are exactly the same as Christians.  Everyone is equal and no one is an individual but we accept everyone or the group consensus is that we need to accept everyone but no one is special, everyone is equal, everyone is the same.  Someone committed a criminal act with a weapon therefore we must outlaw all weapons because if he or she did it then you will probably do it too.

We have to stupid proof the entire world because Society is incapable of making good decisions. 

So my question is what is acceptance?  Do you accept that some people like to eat other people?  Honestly...  What I have found in my own life is that the people who were "accepting" of my transition...  The people for whom acceptance was something they consciously chose to do... They all accepted me as a man, as a man who wants to be a woman.  And in their minds I will always be a man who wants to be a woman and it doesn't matter that I had SRS in 2004 or that I have been living a female life now for roughly 14 years.  Because they accept me as a MAN who wants to be a woman.  Because their "acceptance" causes them to be incapable of experiencing me as a woman.

My Dad has been studying the Mexican form of Spanish off and on for some time now because he likes to think of himself as someone who accepts Mexicans.  My mother tends to have some issues with Mexicans which she occasionally expresses as a form of prejudice.  My Father is making a conscious effort to "accept" Mexicans whereas my Mother just says what she thinks.  But if my father really accepted Mexicans he wouldn't continue to see them as different and he wouldn't see them as a group of people who were dependent upon acceptance, would he?  If he really accepted Mexicans what would he accept them as?  Would he accept them for their differences or would he accept them for their similarities or would he just not care or would he accept them the way they are because he loves them?  Collectivism seems to originate out of a complete disregard for the individual.  I think the healthier acceptance is to realize that people are different and to consciously choose to "accept" them out of love and regard for their welfare.  To love someone is to do no harm.

Collectivism forgets that trans women are women and it forgets that trans men are men.  And most all of us are guilty.  Collectivism forgets that Mexicans are individuals and that every individual has varying needs.

When ordinary people accept me as a man who wants to be a woman it causes me harm.  And I have noticed that this happens with much more frequency around gays and lesbians who seem to project their own issues onto trans people and who use their own issues to understand the motivations of trans people.

Really the only way that we can love one another is by experiencing enlightenment because until we do even our desire to love one another will tend to fail or backfire.  I have had plenty of people who thought they were doing me a huge favor by accepting me as a MAN who wants to become a woman cause me to suffer.  Telling their friends that so and so isn't really a woman, he is a man because if other people didn't realize that I was a man then their "acceptance" of me would go unseen and unrewarded.

This is why in order to love one another we have to get out of ego space and into what is sometimes referred to as Christ Consciousness (not a specifically Christian terminology) but a terminology that begins to describe the heart or the heart chakra.  Ego space is my father creating a distinction between himself and Mexicans in order to allow him self the opportunity to accept them.  Ego space is people creating a distinction between me and real women in order to accept me as a trans woman.  Some distinctions are healthy, some are sick like Collectivism.  Deciding that everyone is equal (a buzz word for 'the same') in order to feel like everyone's needs are being met is sick because it ignores the individual out of laziness or ignorance/stupidity.  It is a process of reducing everyone down to being the same square peg so that people can feel like they are accepting others when painting everyone with the same broad brush and absolutely ignoring the individual and it is about the farthest thing from "acceptance" as anyone could ever possibly imagine.

Anyway... Christ Consciousness says that Love does no harm and that we should love one another as we love ourselves.  That means not "Accepting" someone in order to boost our own ego or to feel good about our self.  That means not reducing everyone to being a square peg in order to accept everyone and make everyone "equal" (i.e. the same).  And really it means that a lot of the stuff that we think is good for other people is actually serving another purpose other than the welfare of the individuals we are "accepting".

Collectivism is a way to make everyone a slave.  Women are equal to men therefore a nine year old girl should be able to carry an equally heavy burden as a male twice her age.  A 220 pound male bodybuilder should have a 70 pound female bodyguard because we are all equal. On guildwars 2 a tiny Asuran can jump just as high and run just as fast and fight just as hard as a giant Charr because we have to accept that everyone is equal at the cost of individualism.

Essentially we are all the same if you were to break each of us down into consciousness except even then some of us are more conscious than others.  But what makes us human is our human condition and everyone's condition is not the same.  My condition is that I am female and I have always been female but people who like to feel good about accepting me tend to feel that I am a man who wants to be a woman.  They can't see that I am a female who was born with a screwed up body because they believe that people are screwed up bodies.  In order for someone to "accept" me he or she would have to be capable of suspension of disbelief, in other words a willingness to suspend one's critical faculties and believe the unbelievable; sacrifice of realism and logic for the sake of acceptance and human beings to my knowledge are not capable of suspension of belief for this purpose.  If someone came up to you and told you that you are really just a brain in a tank that is wired up to a computer and that you are experiencing a virtual reality, would you believe them?

Anyway... I guess what I am attempting to say is that conscious acceptance of others requires that the one doing the accepting be fully conscious as in like some sort of Zen awakening.  Or you can rely on the heart chakra and Christ consciousness (heart consciousness) and ask the one you are accepting questions in order to better understand him or her.  The important thing is to accept others not for ideas because the ego is ideas, ideas about who we are and why we are so amazing for accepting so and so.  If you can't know everything then learn to understand with your heart.  As women and men who transition or are trans it isn't our accomplishments that allow us to be better able to understand and accept others, it is our suffering.  Suffering teaches us compassion and gives us empathy.

Often times on the road to self discovery we apply labels to ourselves. It is like a process of narrowing down who we are, except labels tend to be fairly broad descriptions.  At some point we may determine that the label 'Trans' is a pretty good fit, but as we narrow ourselves down we may begin to find that the label has become too loose and it no longer fits comfortably.

There is something called Maslow's Pyramid which begins to explain the human condition pretty well.  I never learned about it in school, I got it from the Internet.  School barely taught me anything.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg/450px-Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg.png)

Most of us are struggling with the yellow and red layers on a daily basis, we are struggling just to survive and protect ourselves.  a "Trans" person experiences Maslow's Pyramid on a whole nuther level.  When the sexual identity of the individual needs to be established through transition he or she has real difficulty getting past the first three lower layers of the pyramid, though he or she may feel like he or she accomplished the entire pyramid but as a false representation of self or as a facade from behind a mask, never being recognized or experienced (screw acceptance) for who he or she really was or is.  To be accepted is more or less something that happens between the ears of the one doing the so-called accepting but to be experienced as one truly is, well that generates an interaction that combines the truth of two people rather than ignoring the reality of an individual for the purpose of intercourse (the non sexual variety, most of the time). 

And really that is important, acceptance is something that tends to happen between the ears of the one doing the accepting and typically to say to someone that you accept them can be pretty insulting.  As if anyone needs your acceptance, how dare you Sir or Madame!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjqsB1huDxg&feature=player_detailpage#t=694
Bad Question #11 i.e, "I "accept" you as a woman." 

I would much rather be experienced as a woman than accepted as a woman, especially when that acceptance primarily translates into lip service rather than actions.  When was the last time you made a conscious effort to accept a woman as a woman or a man as a man and if you did were you projecting your own needs onto them because you identified with them as trans or were you experiencing them as an individual female or male?  Usually acceptance amounts to an idea between the ears of the one doing the supposed acceptance but really acceptance is recognizing that someone else is different which tends to generate exception and interferes with one's ability to interact with another person normally. 

Which further illustrates the point I am trying to make that loving other people is way better than this supposed acceptance thing.  Love incorporates the individual whereas acceptance in my experience tends to look past the individual.  And the suffering that I had to experience as a woman who needed to transition (and the suffering I continue to experience) can either make me bitter and mean or cause me to become empathetic towards others.  Today I choose love.


As to whether someone is more open-minded or not I feel that this question sort of creates a false sense of reality, because whether or not we experience someone as being open-minded tends to be a judgment on our part.  And how can we be open-minded if we experience others upon the basis of a personal judgment? Does my personal judgment equal open-mindedness on my part?  If I am failing in my open-mindedness how capable am I of determining whether someone else is open-minded or not? 

It is believed by many that parallel worlds exist one upon another but that each parallel world exists at a different frequency.  I believe it was Ghandi who said, "If you want to change the world, change yourself."  In my own personal experience transition is a means to experience this on a profound level.  Adapting a famous quote by Yogi Berra I get, "Ninety percent of transition is half mental."  Transition is like Maslow's Pyramid, in the beginning we are just seeking to survive and protect ourselves and we don't take the upper layers of the pyramid into perspective, because a house is built from the ground up, a journey starts at the beginning, not the end.

So what if what we believe creates the world around us.  I would submit that it does.  And that you don't change other people by changing other people, you change other people by changing yourself.  It is Psychologically, Scientifically true that as human beings we tend to hate in others what we recognize from ourselves.  Spiritual people have been telling us for years that at our core we are spiritual beings having a physical experience, that basically we are all consciousness and that we are one.  People don't believe in reality as it is, people believe in their ideas about what they think reality is. The ego isn't pride, the ego isn't thinking you are better than you are.  The ego is your ideas.

The Christ said that if you want to enter the Kingdom of Heaven that you have to be as little children.  Little children have little egos.  Little children therefore tend to experience the world as it is rather than their ideas about the world.  The older a person is typically, the less he or she experiences the world as it is and the more he or she experiences his or her accumulated and reinforced ideas about what they world is. Little children tend to live outside of themselves whereas older people tend to live between their ears, experiencing life as preconceived notions and prejudice.  This is why little children experience acceptance as love but it is why adults experience acceptance as an idea.

Children may not always say things you want to hear but children experience the world as it is.  Do you want to go around saying the darnedest things or is love a better bandaid than open-mindedness?  But really, you can change worlds by changing your frequency.  You will inhabit the parallel universe that you are in tune with.  So for the sake of open-mindedness it is imperative that you begin to realize that whatever you believe or think about, you will get more of.  If you believe in a half empty cup then you will live in an world of empty cups.  It sounds trivial or like a surface experience but I assure you, it runs all the way to the core and fills every corner given time.  The Christ said that he was not of this world but that he came here to save us so that we could enter into the Kingdom of Heaven which he said was not up in the sky somewhere but already existed here on earth.  Step out of binary think if you can and begin to realize that everything is connected.

I'm extremely open minded but also very skeptical.  Some people might think that open minded is the opposite of skeptical.  In my mind its not and you can be open minded and skeptical.  Open minded doesn't mean believing everything, it just means that you are receptive to new ideas, not that you will accept them, just that you will not reject them.  I believe ANYTHING is possible as long as it is logically possible(in the purest sense of logic, meaning as long as you aren't saying that A=B and A<>B at the same time), for example it is logically possible that the empty jar of peanut butter in my room is God.  Its not reasonable or probable but it does make sense using first order logic, therefore it's possible.  My level of belief that something may be true is relative to the probability that it is true.  Of course that probability is all in my head and based on inherently flawed observations using a brain that has remained unproven to be perfect in its reasoning.  I'm choosing to live my life mostly believing that my brain has the ability to interpret life around me correctly.  That in itself could end up being possibly the most dangerous thing I could choose to do. 

There is one thing on that list of attributes of open minded people that I don't agree with and that's optimism.  It doesn't have anything to do with how open you are.  You can be extremely closed minded and extremely optimistic and you can be completely open minded and extremely pessimistic.  In fact if you look at some of the more closed minded people in the world (people that are a part of certain organized religions) they tend to be really optimistic, sometimes overly optimistic.  Someone who is more open-minded may end up being extremely pessimistic about life because its entirely possible that there is no meaning to life, it might not even be real, etc

Just my $0.02

Just so people know, I edited my post fifty thousand times fifty one thousand times and I just finished my last edit.  And perhaps it's a little ironic that Maslow's Pyramid is often expressed as a rainbow triangle  :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH04OsNuvcw

Also the peak of Maslow's pyramid is Self Actualization and men and women who transition tend to be the most self-actualized people on the planet.