Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I started taking hormones back in March on a daily regime, and just yesterday a friend asked me if I was taking hormones, and I asked him why, and he told me that I was starting to show some development.  :) I was very excited!!!


Gina Taylor

Oh that must be exciting, Congratulations Gina!

 :) congratulations gina, i am well jealous!

Hi Gina,

Awesome, great, congrats, bravo!! You should be very excited. You're on your way to womahood and loving every minute of it  :eusa_dance:

Thanks girls for your kind words. Yes I am starting to enjoy it. I can almost feel my breasts bounce in insignificant ways, and it makes me feel so wonderful!

Yes, I'm on a slow journey to womanhood and I am enjoying it so much. I guess the next step is to schedule my SRS.

Gina Taylor

I have the heart and soul of a woman
And am proud to be a T-girl

"Yes, I'm on a slow journey to womanhood and I am enjoying it so much"

We all have a slow journey so to speak, but never let that bother you and don't judge your progress by the physical development, you are there only when you sense there is no longer any conflict, with yourself and others, and you have earned your position in life among otherswithout questions.

It is not the size of your bust or the curve of your waistline that makes you what you are, it is the recognition of others that allows you to truely be, though that may sound contrary to a lot of views.  in the end, it is not conformity that we seek, but the acceptance by others as being what we believe we are.  After all, human beings are social animals and we need socialization of the type we crave to be complete.

From what I have found, each of us on the full oneway trip is in search of one thing, acceptance, and simple tolerance isn't the same.  We can't accept simple passing which is shallow and emotionally incomplete, we must actually integrate in the deepest most meaningful ways with never a doubt that we actually are what we represent ourselves to be.  Only then will the deamons leave us alone.

I am happy for yu Gina that yur  "developing."   Just bounce around and enjoy yurself.


Best wishes,
Michelle

Congratulations Gina, and I hope you are enjoying the new you.

I too am considering very much, taking the steps  to transition, and I hope that some day I will be able to also strart on my way to being a real lady.,

I hope you enjoy every minuet and all goes well for you

Denise01

Congratulations.  That's great news Gina.

yay wel;l done i am jealous now i wish i had boobs (or do i lol)

I wish I could give you mine :/

Dennis

Con grats Gina growth is wonderfull

hi gina, first of all i'd like to congratz for the development u got  ^-^
btw,i'd like to know what kind of hormone u're taking right now and how about the dosage?i'd really love to do the same thing as u do   ;D
and what if i take contraceptive pills,does it help??i mean,does contraceptive pills work as good as other hormone pills?plz give me a suggestion about it,thx a lot,u go girl  :)


*4years edit*
Perhaps it would be a good idea to review the site rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html): (in part)

Quote6. The discussion of hormone replacement therapy(HRT) and it's medications is permitted however, with the following limitations:

A. Advocating for or against a specific medication or combinations of medications is strictly prohibited.

B. Discussing the means to acquire HRT medications without a prescription, and self medication without a doctors care is prohibited.

C. Discussing dosages is strongly discouraged to prevent information obtained on this site from being used to self medicate.[/list]

We can not in good conscience condone the self administering of these medications. Not only may self medication be illegal but HRT medications can cause serious health problems and many have the potential for life-threatening side effects that can only be detected and prevented with proper medical supervision.

Hello Zoey.  Take to heart the advice from 4years.  It is the rules and it is the truth.  Different estrogen types are accepted by the body in different ways and different dosages, with different people. What is acceptable with one varient may be to little or all to much in another.  Never assume what you can take with one will work well with another or even with the same drugs at the same dose as another person.

If you take this route, do so only under a proper medical program and keep in mind that the drugs and even surgery can only address the original part of the problem.  There is so much more to it that acummulates over the years for the complete healing process to accomplish itself.

I like the way Leigh puts it.  "Look like a duck, act like a duck and quack like a duck, but until the ducks quack back, you are not a duck", or words to that effect.  I could tell you how important it is to hear that quack, and understand what it truely is and means, regardless any and all things else, but I won't, it's something you must find for yourself and may the ducks quack to you someday, but it won't be based upon your "physical attributes".  Thats more for the acceptance of men then women when you truely understand, or begin to.

Terri

Thanks again girls. Everyday I'm seeing small changes, and it excites me. It's definatelly like going through puberty . . . again.  :) I've taken a lot of time deliberating what to do, and I feel so good now that I've started to take control of my life. Some of the old members know what I've been through . . .  :(

Thanks Terri for your thoughtful words. Lately people have been seeing more of my feminine side, which is good. I agree with you that it's more about acceptence than anything else.

I'm really sorry to hear about your situation Dennis. It's a shame that they haven't got breast transfusions down well. If you wanna talk, e-mail me or send me a pm. Maybe I can help.


Gina

Since I last posted, I've been watching my breast development, and sometimes it looks like it's just stopped and then a day or so later it looks like it's back again. Has anyone ever experienced this?

Gina

Yes, i'm going thru the same thing now, it comes and goes but is steady growth over time.








beth

I am 30 years old.  I have read that after 28 or so that hormones have a very reduced effect.  Do I have any hope?

Jess

Jess,

         there's lots of hope, i'm in my fiftys and been on hrt for about 4 months and i am developing breasts and my skin is already smooth and my body fat is changing. 30 is very young jess, everything will be fine.





beth

Hope it all continues well Gina.  Afraid I've gone about as far I'm gonna get on HRT, the low dose I'm on now doesn't seem to have any physical "kick" to it.  Gotten to where I no longer feel much of anything in my breasts anymore, , no sensitivity, no buzzing, except for a little movement while walking or running, they seem lifeless these days, no new growth since April and no distributaion movements either. really starting to scratch, cut and bruise easily though in comparison to before.  Some times i feel like I'm going backwards.  I asked about upping it, at least for a while to kick start again, but docs say no.  Oh well, who wants to be barbie any way?  No .... don't answer that.  I could live with it too if I had to.

Just happy to have gotten as far as I did, and the Endo Department is being called in to check out the options, who knows?

Terri

Congrats Terri! I am four months and have been bouncing for about a month. I have a Trans log program I use to keep track of my progress. I think I got it here on Susans Page. If you don't have one check the home page. I'm pretty sure it's in one of those links and it's a free download. Also I took before pictures when I first started.  Recently I took some progress photos and WOW! I didn't realise how significant the changes are till I compared them.
I took them wearing just a pair of panties. front view left and right sides and back. I kept my feet just shoulder width apart and hands and arms out to the sides so I can see my shape easily. I take the photos from the exact same spot in my living room so I can use my computer imageing to superimpose them for better comparison. Very handy for seeing how your coming along.

It's all vey exciting and I know the joy you must be feeling. We seem to be on close to the same timeline. I've been advised that it takes 18months to 2 years to get the full feminization effects. So I will be waiting to see what my maximum results will be before decideing what surgeries other than SRS I may or may not need. I think that's a good idea for anybody doing HRT. Except for my face I'm not even planning electrolysis for other parts of my body. I want to let the hormones do their thing and see how that goes. I've noticed my chest hair is getting patchy and the hair that grows back is getting lighter and softer. My tummy hair has almost completley turned into vellum hairs and no longer requires shaving at all.

Hurray, now all those little red bumps will disappear. There's a lot to look forward to in changes besides the more obvious breasts. But I sure love seeing them, washing them in the shower and feeling them bounce when I run. Of course there is the morning tenderness
when you sleep on them the wrong way. or when you have to adjust your bra and accidently pinch one. Ouch!

And Zoey, heres another thought with regards to caution with hormones. Too much estrogen does not speed or improve changes but does increase the risk of liver disease. too little and you'll get little or no change and you still run the risk of liver disease that is one of many reasons why a doctor needs to monitor your blood levels both to insure proper estrogen levels and to check for any signs of liver damage. doesn't always happen it's just a potential side effect, but if there is an indication the doctor needs to pull you off the hormones before too much damage occurs.  Spironolactone a.k.a Androgen, is a dieuretic and can cause kidney infections something else you don't want to mess with without a doctor. Anyone who self medicates is risking the possibility of serious health problems.

Also with self medicating there is the problem of bootleg pharmaceutical which can be anything. it may even be what it says it is except not the dosage it claims. It will be more costly than prescription and can land you in jail. Just some things you should be aware of.

Be safe, and be happy.

Cassie

Thanks Cassandra, for the congrats, but I don't know what for,  I hit a wall I couldn't get around and had to go the Orchie route to be able to get off the spiro and take a post menapausal type low dose just to hang in there, as it is, there probably won't be much more in the way of feminizing effects other then basically being a pure estrogen system with no testosterone to fight anymore and the natural consiquence of that. dosage isn't high enogh to kick the puberty effect though.  Its only been since march 28 since the orchie and about 10 days after that going back on the low dose estrogen after haveing been off of everything for 10 days before the operation, so It's really a little hard to know just how much will continue on though with feminizing effects.  It was a hell of ride though, coming off medication, Letting T back into my life then killing natural hormones then going back into the estrogen environment again, even the low dose.  Not for the faint of heart.

As far as time lines, dunno, I began Hrt in september of 03, though I had been fully identified 24/7 for several years before that and halfa** identified for a half dozen years prior.  the whole thing is getting a little old.  I've seen the better times in it.

I really have never documented development though.  i always figured it would end up what it ended up as so whatever it was inbetween was kind of irrelevant.  As it is, I don't quite pump up a B cup, but I know a lot of WBW that don't either, though usually they are smaller statured then I am, so anyway, I'm not alone with being an LT.

I don't know what joy I'm supposed to be feeling unless its just getting to go on another day at a time and hope I can avoid any more walls I can't break through or having to not be able to get up some morning.  I'm looking forward to SRS and hopefully I'll make it long enough to get to enjoy it for a while afterwards.  I'm not looking much past just making it right now.  Afterwards will take care of itself for whats left in the boile, but I'll go out with what I came in for, thats all that counts.

I lucked out on the body hair department.  My mother was native american and aside from some patchy face hair, and some in underarms and pubic area, I'm clean.  My electro tech and I got a little game going.  She trades work with another electrologist doing each others underarms and she works on her own legs and she occassionally shows me her underarms and legs to see the progress being made and I invaribly end up showing her my legs, which she doesn't think is fair.  I always get a kick out of it though.  I kept my hairless  butt out of a thread recently about bumps from shaving on inner thieghs and how to prevent that.  I was afraid of having to much fun with such a subject.

Your right about estrogen.  it only takes what it takes and more then that won't help, just kind of goes to waste in your system.  I don't worry about the medical end.  I work for a health care provider and they supply my insurance and supply all psychological and medical needs, including hormones and all other perscriptions and monitoring.  they even paid for the orchie.  No, medical care is the least of my worries. I pick up my estrodiol, which replaces the Premarin I was using, right at the pharmacy where I work, 3 months suppy at a time for a $5 perscription fee.  No, don't think I'm in the market for any bootleg drugs or self medication and i hope Zoey doesn't get stupid either, the kids got time to do it right if she has a little patience and gets real about jobs, savings and education and things in the meantime.

My MD suggested referring me to the Endo department to see if they could find a way to increase my dose to enough to put me in development mode, but they came back with there was nothing they could do, which is what I already knew, but the MD wanted to help out and not leave any stone unturned, so I agreed to let her make the referral.  I could push a little and perhaps get my present dosage doubled, but that would still possibly be short of accomplishing anything other then agrivating things and initially all the docs are saying it's a bad idea to stay on at all, so I'll not press anything, just go with the flow and be happy with what I got, and its possible, the little estrogen I got along with the orch might produce some effects, though in a slower manner.  Not gonna worry about it though, won't do me any good.


Terri

Hi Terri,

Actually I was having a blond moment. I meant congrats Gina. When I was writing up the caution about hormones I wrote "Spironolactone a.k.a. Estradiol" Then I posted it and when I went back to review it again I thought wait a minute that's not right. So I was having several blond moments, and I'm a redhead. I don't know how your name popped in my head. But, I do hope better days ahead for you. Some folks will never be able to get around the surgery option to achieve all of the desired effects but you seem to be keeping a stiff upper lip as they say in the u.k.

Good Luck,


Cassie

p.s. I don't really think blonds are dumb, just an expression. No cards and letters please.

Happy Birthday U.S.A.!

Gina,
That is great. I have just started the development. I am amazed at the sensitivity and the growth. You go girl

hah,"Blond moments" huh? I've been looking for that dasderdly blond root for  years and no luck ..... it's hiding somewhere in all the "Platnum" highlights I keep tinting out anymore.  I should just leave em alone, their not much yet, but I earned em, might as well enjoy them.  I prefer my natural brown color though, just not the way it's fading and losing shine.  but theres plenty to fix that with.

Terri

Thanks Cassie, no offence taken. We all have our moments  :) Y'know, if you wanted to , you could modify  it. Really nice to hear from you Terri, you should drop me a line some time. Beth; I guess the older we get the longer we take to develop. LOL

Gina

hiii cassandra thanks for ur information,but what i want to know is, is spironolactone an anti androgen?? because i used to read on annelawrence.com that spironolactone is an anti androgen which can help us to supress the androgen level in our body.i'm not really sure about it.does anyone know about htis or maybe does anyone use any anti androgen pills or something?
i really want to know about this because i'm really desparate to change especially breast enlargement and softer skin  :'(
and i'm taking contraceptive pills which contain ethynil estradiol mg and levonorgestrel mg i took the pills three times daily(each time i take two pills) so everyday i take six pills.girls, i really cant go to see a doctor or a therapist due to my family etc  :-[
but u girls are all my friends whom i consider can help me alot with information about hormones..please please help me with information about this.can i make any progress by taking contraceptive pills?coz as i read at annelawrence.com,ethynil estradiol is a strong estrogen.is it true?i have read a lot infomration about HRT on the internet but i also want to hear ur story.i really appreciate if u girls want to share ur experiences with me and of course with all of us.i'm sure that those information will help us all..u girls are the best,thanx a lot   :)
[edit](4years) Recall I mentioned something about site rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)?[/edit]

Zoey, the information is out there but it is NOT here. I trust I make myself clear.

That said, and a word of advice:
1. Stop the pills.
2. See a therapist. No really, this is a very good idea. I know it is hard, but it IS doable. "family etc." is not an acceptable excuse.

The human body is a remarkable machine, however it is astonishingly easy to break it beyond belief. I feel for you but I honestly cannot suggest you consider doing it yourself. Please talk to a therapist.

thank u so much,4years,i really appreciate if u tell me to go see a therapist.but would u mind telling me what should i say to the therapist??should i tell him that i'm a transgender and i'm desperate to be a girl?do u have any suggestion,coz i'm very confused and i dont know what to do  :-[
yes,it's been sooo hard for me coz i have nobody to talk to(thanx to Gina who have become one of my best sis)
and if u dont mind,can u share me ur experience with HRT, imean what medicine u take and then the dosage and of course the effect on ur body..please share me ur experience and i promise i'll go to a therapist

Nice Gina,
Having Breasts bud and fill out is major, I think. I cant wait till it happens to me. This time Puberty is a good thing. Female puberty. Its like feminine essence formed into physical form, bursting out.

Zoey,

We really must insist that you stop asking about HRT dosages and such. There are plenty of medical sites out there were you can learn all about it on your own if you insist. However your doctor will discuss all of this with you and then some. Just be patient. As far as HRT see rule #6 of the site rules. I wrote my caution to you because it is ill advised to self medicate. From your insistance I get the feeling your inclined to try anyway. You will not get such information from any of us! You will be taking your life into your own hands and we certainly can't stop you. All we can do is advise you as strongly as we can to not do that.

I here you when you say you are impatient to begin, but you must remember it is a long process that cannot be done over night. Take everything in it's own time. My favorite math professor in college had a saying. "Little by little, the robin builds it's nest". Please take these words to heart and don't do anything that would endanger your health and well being.

As to what to say to a therapist, say what is in your heart. It is that simple. If the therapist doesn't understand you or were you're coming from, if they are not helpful, just get another therapist. The therapist is there to help you not to judge you. You don't need to worry about what you will say. Just talk about whatever comes into your head. I think that's about the best advice anybody can give you on the subject. Just be yourself. Each person is different.

The therapist will be unable to help you if you just go in and parrot what other people have said to thier therapist. Not only that, what we say to our therapists is a very personal and private matter. I don't think it really appropriate to be asking such a question.

I don't mean to be discouraging and I don't want to sound like I'm on your case. I speak out of love and concern for a fellow travaler on this voyage of rebirth and discovery. I hope your journey is a safe and happy one


Cassie

Quote from: zoey22982 on July 14, 2005, 04:20:15 AM...but would u mind telling me what should i say to the therapist??should i tell him that i'm a transgender and i'm desperate to be a girl?...

To be quite honest that is a very good place to start.

The only precaution is to make sure the therapist is experienced in Transgendered (Transsexual in particular if that is what you believe yourself to be) issues.

Also to reiterate, I think Cassie's advice is really quite good:

Quote from: Cassandra on July 14, 2005, 12:55:19 PM...As to what to say to a therapist, say what is in your heart. It is that simple. If the therapist doesn't understand you or were you're coming from, if they are not helpful, just get another therapist. The therapist is there to help you not to judge you. You don't need to worry about what you will say. Just talk about whatever comes into your head. I think that's about the best advice anybody can give you on the subject. Just be yourself. Each person is different.

The therapist will be unable to help you if you just go in and parrot what other people have said to thier therapist....

Quote from: zoey22982 on July 14, 2005, 04:20:15 AM...yes,it's been sooo hard for me coz i have nobody to talk to(thanx to Gina who have become one of my best sis)...

You can talk to us (= We are normally quite chatty after all, and as long as you abide by the same site rules as everyone else we will get along just fine (= :icon_flower:

Quote from: zoey22982 on July 14, 2005, 04:20:15 AM...and if u dont mind,can u share me ur experience with HRT...

I do mind, terribly much so.

I goofed.

I was hopping that by taking estrogen (which is a hormone form) that I could start breast development, but not much had happened except for some very shallow shadows and some flabby muscle tissue. Three days ago, I ordered a thirty day supply of Spiro and it should help. Sorry for misleading y'all.  :'(  :-[

Gina

Gina, it could possibly take as much as a year to grow enough breasts to result in what you might call development.  Don't get all that worked up over those that talk about nice breasts in a matter of months.  It's relative, especially in older types, sides, personally i see the issue as more being skin and re-distrubution, not to mention mental function, but yeah, if you haven't been using spiro or some other blocker, chances are you just been running medical risk for little or not gain.  Now how did your perscribing doctor miss that?

and remember, little is said about it, but spiro has significant liver impact also, and watch your diet for potassium.  Spiro retains potassium so you don't want to take in to much.  Know what is in the food you take in.  some might be potassium rich and could be bad news.

At first, frequent blood work may be necessary to check free estrogen and testosterone levels to adjust the amount of spiro and estrogen levels,  Trial and error can work, but can also put a lot of unnessary stress on the body.  Best to work with blood levels to arrive at optimum, thats where the skill and experience of the doctor or endo comes in.  Most of the better ones can pretty well hit it into the ball park by rule of thumb, but blood work can pretty well knock a home run.

Terri

Quote...but would u mind telling me what should i say to the therapist??should i tell him that i'm a transgender and i'm desperate to be a girl?...

Not exactly, but how about explaining why and what it means to you and how it will help you live a better life?  if you can explain these things, the therapyst will be on your side a lot quicker then if you just give the "always been a woman" garbage he or she has heard perhaps to many times and is unimpressed with it at all.  Talk about what it means to you and how it will improve your life and the way you relate to others and the world about you, it will take you further, much faster.

If it's about how to fool or trick the therapyst, have fun with the results and good luck, you'll need it.  If it's about bulding a better life and relations, thats all you have to talk about, forget the wanna be girl crap, you can't be anything other then you are or have the potentual for being.

Terri

Teri, thanks as always for your kind words. If you check back a few months ago, I put in a post about my doctor and how I had approached him about starting HRT and he told me that he had not much knowledge about transsexualism and had suggested that I talk with my psychiatrist. So I did, and I got the same reply, so I started to take the estrogen myself, and that is why I missed the spiro.

Gina, it could possibly take as much as a year to grow enough breasts to result in what you might call development.  Don't get all that worked up over those that talk about nice breasts in a matter of months.

A TS friend that started the same time as I did has more growth than I do and she's older than me, so her metabulism must be working differently. But over all I felt a little jealous.  So I then figgured that it had to be that I wasn't blocking my testosterone and that was the problem.

Since I've been losing wieght, my blood pressure has been good, and I just had some blood work done last month and it came out good, but I will definately watch my potassium intake

As for an endo, I saw one last year, and after the examination I got the feeling that she didn't want to see me again from her comments. Unfortunately, I live in a conservative town, and nobody knows too much about transsexualism here.

Gina

Quote from: gina_taylor on August 16, 2005, 03:35:23 AM
If you check back a few months ago, I put in a post about my doctor and how I had approached him about starting HRT and he told me that he had not much knowledge about transsexualism and had suggested that I talk with my psychiatrist. So I did, and I got the same reply, so I started to take the estrogen myself, and that is why I missed the spiro.

But over all I felt a little jealous. So I then figured that it had to be that I wasn't blocking my testosterone and that was the problem.

Since I've been losing weight, my blood pressure has been good, and I just had some blood work done last month and it came out good, but I will definitely watch my potassium intake

As for an endo, I saw one last year, and after the examination I got the feeling that she didn't want to see me again from her comments. Unfortunately, I live in a conservative town, and nobody knows too much about transsexualism here.

Gina

GINA !

I'm just not clear whether you are seeing a doctor or not.  If not get yourself to one quickly lady, if nothing else but to monitor your health.  You said you missed the spiro and figuered that is what you needed, but who is setting the dosage, as Terri said it can have bad effects on the liver.  And you just can add medications here and there to get the results you want.  Developement is different for everyone.  The rule of thumb most often quoted is that you will develope a proximately 2 cup sizes smaller than you mother.  I'm not sure how scientific this is though.  :)

You seem to be taking precautions by getting  blood work done, but how often, and who is reading, interpreting the results for you.

Just concerned about your health hon.  :)

Take care

Steph

Thanks for your concern Stephanie. I'll be taking a small doseage of spiro, but I will be checking with my doctor periodically. I'll be seeing him next week. As said my blood pressure has been good since I've been loosing weight, and if there were any problems with the last blood test it would have been flagged red. I really don't expect any problem though, and I'll be taking it all slowly.

Gina

Gina, I know very well how hard it can be when all doors seem to be locked, but hang in there and do it by the numbers.  It can take what seems to be forever, but "short cuts" all to often take longer or lead nowhere.  Small town or not, I would venture there is someone out there who could help you.  Just keep in mind that if you truely do have a surgery goal, then stepping outside the system to save time or whatever will get you nowhere in the end.

Do it right and get it done!

Terri

Teri,

I'm not really taking any "short cuts". I thought that by getting the anti-androgen, that I'd be doing it right. Just recently I saw a  neropsychologist and he told me that he feels that 20% of my problem is nerololigical and 80% is behavioral, but anything past that and I'd have to speak with my psychatrist. But as I've said before, he seems to be uneducated about transsexuaism. maybe I may have to go to the big city to find someone and get out of my conservative town.

Gina



[edit]removed HRT dosage by beth[/edit]

So far 1094 views on this thread.  If you want to be read you need a catchy title!

having something to say, and being willing to say it might work also .....

Terri

I have to say when I first came here I thought my life was a little complicated and recently even more so but HRT sounds down right scary.

I like your explanations and comments Terri I think your right this is a no holds barred subject that needs to be clearly stated.

Shelley

It is a no holds barred subject Shelley, not only in nice safe forums, but in the reality of life, and nothing to play with because you can or want to add a little diminsion to your life.  To become involved in them for any other reason then that they are necessary to make your life worth living is the ultimate insanity.

Those that would self medicate do not understand what they do not understand.  If not of the "proper" psychology to need them in the first place, even if they use them and develop perfectly, it will cause them problems and concerns that may foul up thier lives forever and make any problems they had in life so very much worse, even to the point of taking their own life as the newly created problems increase in intensity.

This is hard to put into words as it is a touchy subject which can easily be misunderstood by some, but consider the ramifications to a male identified crossdresser who would use hormones to make themselves more "feminine" when dressed. Before, it is simply a matter of going home, removing enhancements and aids, cleaning themselves up and they can return to the male live as if nothing were different.  This is not the case when Hormones have done their work.  One could never again do simple things like removing thier shirt in the presence of other people, they may incur jokes or hardships because of he thinner skin, which buises, cuts etc. so much easier, the loss of physical strenth and mass, and even their attitudes and emotional states may be adversely affected for their particular environment, and of course, there is always the possibility of medical risk they will have to live with.

If a person does not want to accept being a true woman, living and identifying as one at all times, under all circumstances, and able to deal with the public outrage of what they have done to themselves, loss of friends and family which WILL happen in most cases, less job ability for their present skills, and possibly lower pay when they do find a job they can do, they will find no happiness in the achievement of feminisation.

Those who have accepted what it truely means to give up male privilage and truely be a woman in the real world sense and not just the sexual/sensual ones and do so for life and for life, need hormones, but others without this particular mind set, do not and should not use them under any circumstances at all other then what a doctor may use them for in relation to serious illnesses which may require their use.

Your right Shelley, HRT is scary, hold that thought and dwell on it anytime you feel an attraction to them.

Terri

Besides the health risks there is a psychological risk as well. For a person who does not truly identify as female taking hormones will only cause the same problem a true TS is trying to fix. You will end up with a body that does not match the mind. In a sense, they will actually be turning themselves into a TS. Why would you want to do that to yourself on purpose? It's not exactly all sunshine and roses, ya know?

QuoteI'd have to speak with my psychatrist. But as I've said before, he seems to be uneducated about transsexuaism. maybe I may have to go to the big city to find someone and get out of my conservative town.

Gina, I realize that a lot of focus goes on in forums about how qualified a therapyst is about Gender problems, specifically with Gender Dysphoria, but I'm gonna have to say this right out front:

Most any qualified, licenced therapyst can help you to a great degree, and find and identify specific problems.  When they get into an area they know little about (there are many such areas) they can recommend someone with more experience, or familiarize themselves with the subject.

You seem to be to focused on someone clinically identifying you as having G.I.D. rather then wanting to explore other issues which in fact Have to be explored and ruled out in order to make a G.I.D. diagnosis that has any credibility at all.

I see and hear it all the time, if a therapyst isn't in agreement with your own feelings well, just ditch the S.O.B. and find another one.  in other words, find a rubber stamp that will give you a rubber stamp rather then persue your best interest.

You would do much better then you presently are to just allow the therapyst to work through your personality and see what help they can be to you, and if they find problems that they do not feel comfortable with addressing, then and only then go looking for another.

I can tell you by personal experience that GID may only be the tip of the iceburg regarding your emotional and mental health and other problems must be addressed seperate and aside from the GID issue if you are to make it through as a confident, healthy individual once you have seen the GID issue through.  After all, GID can be diagnosed, but there is little a therapyst can do for it but help you to face the truth about yourself and how it affects your relations and your feelings about yourself.  Other problems though can worked out directly and most do in fact need to be addressed if you are to live a healthy, happy life.

Just see a therapyst, keep the GID issue to yourself and let them work to make their own determinations and suggestions.  You have mentioned many times about seeing different therapysts and doctors and that each and every one of them has been uncomfortable with you and you always attribute it to thier lack of understanding and education about Transsexualism.  Has it ever occurred to you that your own over compensation and defensiveness/insistance about GID might be part of the equasion in their relatoinships to you?

Simply let a therapyst do thier job rather then demanding they simply take your word for it and you will get a lot further a lot faster, Sometimes what some think of as a "gatekeeper" is simply an ethical and responsible Professional working for your best interest as a person, and when you don't cooperate and work with them, they can't obtain the information they need, or you don't have it in yourself to give.  Be less pushy and more cooperative.

Understand that getting a psychiatrist to perscribe HRT for you is not actually all that hard these days, as perscribing such is viewed as a diagnostic tool to help determine GID rather then a conviction that you actually are.  Under the latest definitions of DSM and HBSOC it is simply a tool used to find out if the actual experience and acceptance of hormone influence, and living as a female in the female invironment, is in agreement with previous desires and expectations.  If the subject actually improves in a relational way with the world and themselves, then surgery can be recommended with more confidence, but if doubts persist or if no relatoinal improvement is noted, then a recommendatoin for surgery is probably not warrented.  A professional who has at least familiarised themselves with the HBSOC, could easily recommend HRT and reference you to an Endo and give you what you want, even without having in depth knowledge of Transsexual issues.  The therapyst could then monitor your emotional health issues while on HRT just as easily as they could anyone else with other issues, though they may not ever feel comfortable enough to recommend surgery, in which case you would then need to find a professional who has more indepth experience and education.

I've said it before, but different people in identical circumstances will get different results, and I at least would have no doubt of obtaining goals of HRT in your very same invironment, given my very different mentality, it is just a matter of knowing yourself and the way you approach situations.

Terri

Terri,

Yeah I guess I was in a spot where I was faced with thrapist that knew very little or nothing about transsexualism. I've been though two so far, and the first therapist seemed more concerned about consequences more than anything, which I guess ia part of everything, but unfortunately I was reading too much and it seemed like I was educating my second thearpist instead of the reverse. But unfortunately they couldn't recommend me to anyone with more experience.

I personally feel that I do suffer from some form of G.I.D., so naturally I would look for some therapist who could give me a proper diagnosis that I do suffer from it.

Unfortunately I do fall into that category that if the therapist doesn't agree with my train of thinking, then dump them. I'm going to have to change that if I am going to allow the therapsit to do her/his work properly.

My company is with Blue Cross/ Blue Shield so I have to follow a set plan, but my neropsycholgist told me recently that I may have to step out of the plan if I want to get the right treament. Recently I found a Behavioral Clinic that might be the place for me to start and they're not under the BC/BS plan.

I'll see what happens

Gina

yes Gina, it would seem that you are simply impatent with delays and most including myself can understand that, it is just that you have to rationalize it all out and work with what you have until you have exausted the particular course of action.  As said before though, even if the therapyst available to you isn't familiar with GID, use them to complete advantage in understanding and addressing any other problems you may have.  There is no doubt that GID is your primary concern and you would rather just hold off on messing with anything else until that is suffiently on it's way, but like you say, your options are limited, so take advantage of them for what you can while you have them. 

There is nothing stopping you from going outside the plan you presently have, so yes, persue any course that seems reasonable to you along with what you have, but if it is perceived that you are honestly working with these people, they will likely do all they can for you.  This has been my own experience, though I specifically moved into an area where the proper therapy was available and took a job where the insurance would pay for it, but I had to tough out a year and a half of on call status, without insurance, to take full advantage of the system and then had to go through numerous stalls and seeming dead ends thereafter to keep progress in motion.

It's hard to have patience Gina, I know that all to well, but when you are in a stall, continue doing what you can in any applicable areas even if they do not directly address what you want to address.  Things you can do in the mean time, if you arn't allready are electrolysis, financial security, and building your support structure.  These are all things you will need and can do without anyones agreement or "permission" and will be needed throughout transition.  Transition is a lot more then just hormones, though I well know the necessity of them, but I also know I could go all the way without hormones if I had to.  I wouldn't like it, but I could and would do it and consider myself a better person, to myself and others, just to make the table, hormones or not.

All I'm saying is that while you have the insurance you do, use it for all it's worth and what it can do for you.  That doesn't stop you from looking for other options, or even from plainning a move to another location where you can obtain a job and insurance that will help you if you can't afford the cost yourself, consider it a test of your ability to adapt, research, and follow through and strive for an "A" on that test.  And don't forget the out of pocket expenses that will have to be planned for and spent over and above HRT, such as electro, which in many ways can be as important as HRT itself.  In some ways, I would just as soon have electro completely done and be without HRT as to be completely done with HRT without having had electro, especially during werewolf week.

Terri

Terri,

Yeah I guess I'm somewhat of being an impatient creature, but most times I do  rationalize things out and work with what I have until I have exausted the particular course of action.  But I do plan on using a therapist to my full advantage when I find one. And I will address other problems that I have. 

Thanks for agreeing with me that going outside of my network is a good idea. Sometimes you have to do that if you want to achiebve things.

Patience is one thing that I've learnt in the last four years and I've learnt that attimes it does pay to be patient with things.

Electroylissi is a long process but it will be something that I will be undertaking soon. Doesn't hormones aleviate some of the hair growth though? I realize that hormones are a small part of transitioning, and I feel that it can make a better woman out of me , but that's my opinion.

I will be looking for other options but I will be taking it all one step at a time.

Gina

I've been a subscriber to a magazine called TRANSFORMATION and I've seen some of the products that they've advertised in the magazine. I've recently been in touch with a TG sister who has been using a product caled the breast enhancement cream and she's been using it for a year and has already developed a 42 B size bust. So I am thinking about going a different route and trying out the breast enhancement cream and see how well it works.

I'll let you all know how things develop.

Gina

Gina, have a care with "enhancement" creams and such.  while it is true that they can interact with actual breast tissue, in some indivuduals, which differrs somewhat from male body fat on the chest, they may have little if any actual effect on male anatomy for just that reason.  Despite the ads and claims of these products, for the most part they would just be sales pitch and wishful thinking.  If it were all that easy, A lot of TS individuals would have a lot fatter pocket book.

Terri

Hi Gina,

Teri has given you some good advice there. Magazines make money by selling advertising. They will sell advertising to just about anybody and they do not check the validity of any products advertisers are selling. There is no scientific data to prove nor disprove the efficacy of these creams. caveat emptor(buyer beware).

Good Journey,

Cassie

Hi Gina,

I suppose this doesn't work for everyone but as I read this thread I had this thought.

A medical doctor gives diagnoses, as does a psychiatrist but my understanding of psychology and therapy is that it is process designed to assist selfdiscovery. A therapist aims to open your thinking to possibilities and help you to work through problems. One important part of this is to challenge your beliefs and through this challenge to open your mind. Often the solution to our problems comes from within. Acceptance is one of those such instances.

Think for a moment, what if you are confirmed GID what will change in your life? Will you find acceptance from within then or do you have that already and you just want confirmation that you are right? How will you know if that person that you seek confirmation from is right? Right for you comes from inside and therefore you need someone to help you find your path. That person will need to challenge your thinking to help you confirm within that which you feel.

You are on a path of self discovery Gina and the only person you have to justify anything to is yourself. If by that process of self justification a therapist challenges your thinking aren't they assisting the process.

I think we are all on this journey.

Gina I wish you only good luck and as straight a road to travel as possible.

Shelley

P.S. If I were to choose someone to discuss something that I was unsure of I would choose Terri as I know she would challenge my thinking and not let me get too melancholy. Surrounding yourself with people who agree with you all the time will not asssit your personal development. If you read Terris posts they often, as they have done this time, provide you with ways to challenge your thinking and reading your responses she has achieved that.

Shelley

Quotemy understanding of psychology and therapy is that it is process designed to assist selfdiscovery. A therapist aims to open your thinking to possibilities and help you to work through problems. One important part of this is to challenge your beliefs and through this challenge to open your mind. Often the solution to our problems comes from within.

I like that thinking Shelley, as it has been my experience with them is just that.  They can have a focus on particular morality and ethics and some will try to imprint you with these, but for the most part, all they are doing is as you said, making you face your problems, understand what they are, how the relate to and affect your life and focus you to making a decision on what to do about them in a realistic, doable manner.  They don't and can't tell you what is right, only help you understand what mainstream considers right and how your own thinking varies from that, but anything you actually do can only come from a desire from within to do so.  They only get you to the point of thinking things out, taking responsibility for your own life, and making decisions based upon what you believe is best for you.

Just watch it you don't get to analytical and therefore freeze yourself up from making any decisions by making to many possibilitities to decide between.

Terri

Thanks for your advice girls, but as I said in my post I have spoken with an actual person that has used this breast enhancement cream for a year and has had success with it. So it's not like some advertisment that was written up promising that it would develop breasts. This cream does actually work.

Very good point Shelly about us being on a journey of self discovery and that we only have ourselves to justify to.

My journey has just begun and I'm starting to enjoy it. :)

Gina

 ??? funny i must be losing it! i could have sworn i already posted this!
anyway, congrats to you gina on your new boobs!
I have been taking 'mones myself for 9 months & am really pleased with the size ive got (38B) just remember that hormones can give nasty side effects too.
...
more info the better!
love,
angel xx :angel:

[edit](Kimberly)Please read the site rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html).[/edit]

Hi angelallen,

I'm really excited for you that you've achieved such a large size in such a short time. But I'm sure that you've been taking Spiro from day one. I just started to take estrogen and never bothered with the Spiro until I realized that maybe I should be blocking my testosterone. I was going to start taking the Spiro, but my order was delayed. Maybe I'll just hold off and keep up with the breast enhancement cream and I'll see what happens there.

Send me a PM I'd love to talk with you sometime.

Gina

MY BREAST ENHANCEMENT CREAM ARRIVED TODAY AND I'LL START APPLYING IT TOMORROW AND I'LL SEE HOW WELL IT WORKS! I'M VERY EXCITTED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES!!!  :) :) :)

Gina

I always found it better when estrogen works over the entire body instead of just one area. hips, bust, softer skin, etc. the whole kit and kaboodle. (do people still say that?)

Must do you just did ;D

Shelley

Quote from: AllisonY2K on September 24, 2005, 11:03:41 AM
... the whole kit and kaboodle. (do people still say that?)

Allison,

I say that!  I also use "the whole nine yards, lets go downtown, itsie-bitsie, biggie-wiggie and a whole slew of other arcain (sic) phrases I've learned over 3.7 billion years.

Chaunte

Terri,

Did you study psychology?  You seem to have the wonderful gift of asking the right question at the right time to shake up our preconceived notions about our worlds.

Chaunte

Quote from: Terri-Gene on August 21, 2005, 04:03:32 PM

I can tell you by personal experience that GID may only be the tip of the iceburg regarding your emotional and mental health and other problems must be addressed seperate and aside from the GID issue if you are to make it through as a confident, healthy individual once you have seen the GID issue through. 

I know that my therapist is asking more and more questions about me and not focusing so much on GID.  She asks a lot of hard questions that can be tough to answer, and that is good.  In the long run, it will make me more of a complete and unified person.

Chaunte

I

Quoteknow that my therapist is asking more and more questions about me and not focusing so much on GID. 

there is only so much that can be done with GID once you have accepted it and decided what responisible decisions you want to make about it, once you are somewhat comfotable about it and understand your realistic options what more can be said about it?

All the pent up stuff that may just be normal or as a result of the GID issue though can be pretty unhealthy though and if not delt with, can take its toll on you, even to the point of making you an unhappy camper no matter what you do or don't do about transition.

Terri

QuoteTerri,

Did you study psychology?

No Chaunte, I don't believe I ever did, not in an acedemic way at least.  I just have an idea or two about what runs around in my own head and i've associated with more then my share the professional set and talk to many of them as friends and aquintences at work for a few years now, about a dozen or so on the compound I work on and I guess I kind of get into thier type of thinking sometimes, though one should never try to diagnose or analyse themselves, to hard to be objective about such things and to easy to let yourself off to easily, sides, I believe in doing what I do best and leave what I don't do best to professionals.

Terri

Terri, I guess my delusion state of mind must have been working and I must have thought I had seen something. The only time that I actually do see some development is when I'm sitting down and when I lean forward. LOL  ;D


Maybe we should talk. Why don't you send me a PM.

Gina

Bobbie, my best girlfriend neglected to tell me to order some Feminant pills which is a low doseage of hormones when Ii had started taking the breast enhancement cream, so I have just placed an order for it, and I'll be starting on that when it comes in and I should see a difference.  :)

Gina

Are you refering to this:

http://www.crossdresser.com/product_page_detail.asp?ProductID=6&ProductCatID=10&ProductSubCatID=&Search=

If you are don't waste you money Gina,  also what is this breast enhancement cream that you are using.  What are the results, what is it called and how long have you been using it.

If it is over the counter stuff I have my doubts that you will get the results promosed or what you are looking for.  See your doctor about HRT, ask him/her questions...

Steph

I have an excess bridge I am looking to get rid of also.

Quote
In practical terms, this means that raw ovarian concentrate, for instance, contains a variety of known and unknown intrinsic factors that support ovarian functions in the recipient.

Well that certain explains everything to me.  Just what I always wanted in my body--known factors much less unknown ones.

This stuff is horse apples

Sorry Stephanie, but I couldn't open the link, but the breast enhancement cream I get from a magazine called TRANSFORMATION, a magazine for men that like to be women, and the Feminant pills is also coming from the same place.  My best girlfriend Bobbie started using the breast enhancement cream and the Feminant pills a year ago and she was succesfully able to develop a 42 B size bust.

I'll be seeing my doctor in a few weeks and I'll be asking him a few questions, but I really doubt that he'll be able to give me any answers. But he may surprise me  :-\

Gina

Gina, Steph and Leigh were using some discretion in not talking about self enhancement at just this point, but we are getting awful close aren't we? after all, this is the gist of what this thread is getting into, do counter bought drugs work or not in non medical treatment?

As to the widest range of rather expert or near so experience, no, they do not work without estrogen type forms that are illegal by law in most places to sell across the counter if they contain estrogens in any amount or form to be useful in male to female body changes or for any use without a doctors care and supervision, such things will get pharmacists thrown into prison if they knowingly and habitually sell such things, though they may have some effect on born females or those with existing female organs and such things are universally throughout the world known to be dangerous to human beings who have particular health problems..... and no, there is NO certified tests which show they do work, at least NONE that have made any kind of non commercial news in the scientific community unless they have to do with fish, rodents or RATS etc.  It might be best to steer away from such redundant and non intellectual chatter as there are those that WILL try out dangerous drugs that can permanently disable them for life just because someone said it MIGHT work.  Castration at very young ages to some extent, if you have a lifetime to wait for "quick and easy" results, but how many will go that route?  especially with most likely results being possible if before puberty starts and it is also likely nothing useful or satisfying will occur other then growing up with a frilly voice and no beard if done before they grow one or their voice hormonally changes by having enough T during puberty.

As to taking female estrogens at female dosages, there are only certain physical characteristics in a male that will make it work without many, many years in born male form, again, useless information in the real scientific world though there are those who said it would work.  Like your friend did, first she said she was taking ONLY the store bought stuff then admitted she was taking someone's estrogen pills, which again is self medication if you didn't mention anything about doctors or the need for them.  Altogether a bad subject to be discussing unless you want to talk about valid scientific research other then what people say without validity, scientific fact about these products other then what they want to tell you.  For general scientific knowledge, NONE of it works without Estrogen or possibly some other forms not talked about in any public forum, and that would have nothing to do with pharmacy developers as they could sell you enough XXX crap to fill their bank if they could which they can't by documented REAL studies

And yes Gina, I'll talk to you in PM if you have any legit treatment questions about who and how to get help, but there is enough of that kind of information not only in the forums but the Wiki and a lot that is said right here in the forums and the forums and Wiki is where legit and expectation does the best for everybody and all concerned what with all this "LEGIT" redefinition going on all the time on other boards and among those who can't spell D O C T O R on the streets and give all the crap about non therapy drugs to everyone, I know more personally about the problems with HRT/RLT and such then many other medically defined clinical TS's. I'm not for that cowpattie stuff about hormones which most clinical TS's have never used or seen work, that no doctors, therapists or private enterprises have any scientists, legitimately able to prove works, or have no belief in at all.  I've had my own shell shocks before, during, afterwards and again last year with nowhere to go but where I must to have it all done in the medical zone only, and even then without any guarantee of no risk.  My medical record suggests another stroke within 3 or 4 years from now due to what they call the Estrogen Stroke last November.  When i make SRS I can't even think about how long I'll last afterwards, how's that for you and BS drugs without any scientific proof that they really can and do work, regardless of what the devil said.  HRT can and will kill some people or give them conditions that will no longer allow them to work or make a living, Believe it.

Chaunte wrote: 

QuoteI know that my therapist is asking more and more questions about me and not focusing so much on GID.  She asks a lot of hard questions that can be tough to answer, and that is good.  In the long run, it will make me more of a complete and unified person.

I believe you.  Same here, in my case I became a rather endangered and endangerment to others due to some career choices I made in the early 70's to escape all gender related estrangements and suspicions, I spent some years kill or be killed for some years just to confirm myself as male and really wasn't handling it on an internal basis and worked myself into a kind of person, few would want to be around much unless they knew me very, very well and I knew them for being real. 

I finally allowed some treatment on my real feelings about those things which I did for all my life in the company of therapists; not for anyone else's real good, but for my own frame of mind and linked with becoming suicidal due to being taken off estrogens over a stroke last November and conducting myself badly for some time before they found a way to put me back on at much lower doses then before .... much more then birth control pills or such which Gina was giving which have been proven not to do the job in any kind of  timely manner if anything at all other then possible medical defects in the male body, or female body also.   I'm not really into what some people on the street might say about them working or not.  There is no scientific proof even by the people who make them that they really do work on any but a very few people if any at all.  No scientific tests by scientific standards has been shown to science or public by the ones who say thier products work, not in any workable, realistic manner that would give them any credibility at all or you would be watching the tests on 69 minutes don't ya think?

That's why I mentioned about non medical care in what Gina has been discussing.  Any talk about store bought drugs, or internet drugs really are not the kind of thing we should categorically talk about here in a safe, medical and cognizant way, it is just that when not talked about in a congenial and medical way, such methods are dangerous and I have had some good experience what can happen even with some of the best medical programs available to me, or anyone for that matter and I have met and talked a lot with other TS's I can trust for truth and programs that I know for a fact or as close as possible to me that tell me what they have seen happen in many areas and I have no reason to doubt them just as I have no reason to doubt Dr.'s, Psychologists and Psychiatrist who I have talked to almost every day of the week for years at work.

I don't get everything right all the time, but I know what the medical professionals have told me, Pharmacists have told me, and some post ops have told me and what people on the street have told me.  I prefer to take it from the scientific people and people who were there about what's legit or not and what effects they have had with non prescription drugs.  Notice that you will find few if ANY actual clinical TS types, who are in legit transition under medical care who have any logic at all in store bought drugs that actually work, as most are in sever financial condition due to their constant expenses for medical care and drugs. and might possibly use the drugs under medical care if they worked at all as good as estrogen, which is NOT all that expensive when you have a source for a medical prescription. I HATE all that BS about use this cream or that cream to grow BIG breasts, it is just so much COWPATTI by any scientific tests done in a realistic way without preconceived lies and multiple untruths about how good it works when talking to a sales pitching bunch of trying to get there for nothing.  YOU CAN find a doctor that will work for you if you really try.  It is work and friends that are the hard part but you can find friends and you can find work, you simply have to go DO IT.

Sorry about all that, I have a very personal issue about the supposed safety of HRT, even though I know that medically used HRT is most generally safe for most that use it, though I have heard legitimate accounts of some medically supervised persons who have had up to death in the results of it, and I've had my own criteria I have been slowly clawing out of just over this last year over should have transitioned years ago and didn't and waited almost to long to actually no longer able to not do it under the best of medical care, I have never taken a pill that wasn't prescribed to me of anything since as a teenager, and that was more then 40 years ago and already deeply in the rough over the TS problem that I didn't have the nerve for back in those years and tried to live without it.

Terri

Thanks as always Terri for your valid point of view. I guess the cream would be considered an over the counter medictaion since it isn't a perscription type medictaion.

I have seen pictures of Bobby, my best girlfriend and she definately has  a 42 B size bust which is the reulsts of using the aforementoned cream and Feminant. So I do have some proof that it does work.

Now I do realize that there has been a lot of BS out there on things that will make your breasts get bigger, and the only thing that gets bigger is their wallet size.


I appreciate the fact that you'll PM me when I have any legit treatment questions about who and how to get helpand I realize that there is alot of information available through the Wiki forum. But I will keep your offer in mind.

So for what little I'm spending on this treatment, I'm hoping that it will work for me as well as it's worked for my girlfriend Bobby, and if not, then so be  it. Right now I don't have much to lose.

Gina

No Gina, you have money to lose. Money that could be better spent on legitimate meds prescribed by your doctor. You only have your friends word for it on her breast size. This is totally anecdotal. You're not stupid! Don't fall for false claims. Maybe there are other reasons your friend experienced breast enlargement. I have seen the ads for these creams. For some odd reason I received a magazine from transforms and after reading it I can assure you this companies materials are full of false or unprovable claims. Please get a ddoctor who will prescribe a proper HRT regimine. You have a good job, this should not be a problem for you. Why do you insist on spending good money you could use to transition from reputible doctors? I don't understand your insistance on these obscure measures.

Cassie

Thanks Melissa. You're probably right there. I'm very desperate to make some changes in my life, and I'm very impatient. ::)

As I've said before, back in February, I spoke with my doctor about starting HRT,and he told me that he wasn't too knowledgeable about it,and had suggested that I talk with my psychitarist. So I talked with my psychiatrist the following week, and he told me the same  thing. I found a pharmacy that I could get hormones from, but I would require a perscription, so I asked my doctor for a perscription,and I didn't get it, so I had to find other means, and so Bobby told me about the breast enhancement cream and what it had done for her, and so for $39.00, I decided to give it a try. But as said,she neglected to tell me about the Feminant pills, which is the hormones. If anything, I may just forget about it and become a non-op transsexual. :(



Gina

Quoteyou shouldn't be the one that is defeated.  You should get back on your feet and pursue your dreams.

I have to second this Gina. I don't generally reccommend shopping doctors but in your case I think you really need to find some other doctors. If you are determined enough you will do this and get the proper HRT and doctors to montior your therapy. Don't give up the ship.

Cassie

I don't know. I'm just feeling a bit defeated.Like I'm swimming against the tide and I'm not getting anywhere, and it's very frustrating.  :(

I realize that being a non-op is a choice, but I'm not sure which way I want to go. My head is too much in a jumble right now.  ???  ???  ???

Gina

Thanks Melissa for your thoughtful words.

I went out last night and I really had a good time.  :)  I spoke with a pre-op transsexual for a length of time and she was able to clear my head on alot of things, so now I have a much better idea of where I'm going  :) :) :).

Gina  

Is is quite interesting to note that there are genetic male TS's that have had facial surgery and not SRS and vice versa and both groups are very happy.  Therefore we can be pleased with the journey even though we may take a different path than we expected.

What do you think would be easier with respect to genetic male TS's: 1. to look like a female and have male genitals or 2. to look like a male and have female genitals?  Both groups can feel very comfortable with their decisions.  However if you could only chose one group which would it be? (That is a rhetorical question.)

This whole thread started with "Three months and I'm developing!".  That sounds neat for a MTF!  I can relate.

You will be successful in your journey.  However it will meander along the way.

Thanks Wendy for your kind words of wisdom.

Yes, everyone does take a different journey, and every journey does take a different path than we expected.

I would feel a lot better to look like a female with male genitals than to look like a male with female genitals. But that's my opinion. Interesting fact there: Things have changes so much in the last year tell me though, Wendy, how do you relate to all this?  ??? If you want , send me a PM, and we'll talk.

Thanks to all for your continued support for my journey . . .

Gina

Quote1. to look like a female and have male genitals or 2. to look like a male and have female genitals?

Perfectly simple question with a perfectly simple answer.

If I had no choice but one or the other I'd look at it in this respect.  I am a lifelong Transsexual.  I not only prefer the company and association of other women rather then that of men but I truely want to be a woman and experience life as one.  Then two, I have a lifelong hatred of my own body, specifically the genitals. 

Read the above again and you can see that looking like a woman but not sharing a general simularity, specifically genitals with them would do nothing at all for my peace of mind or happiness in life, no matter how good I could manage to look as a woman.  The issue for me is the genitals, and the life, not at all the looks.  I have a definate fem appearance for a person of my age but I put no great effort into enhancing that look with makeup, hairdo's and fancy clothing.  Rather I basically look like how my environment and life experience have raised me to look and I don't do much at all to add any artificiallity to that look.

If I could have the surgery but could not do HRT or style myself in a more fem manner I would still be happy in life as my body would feel right, even without breasts and I know and have seen enough maleish looking women coping with the world despite it that I would just look at myself as being what I am, a woman, and live out my life with the knowledge that I could be myself no matter what my appearance was.

To be granted perfect female looks but still retaining male organs would do little more then drive me totally crazy as there would be nowhere I could go and escape the basic root of the problem I have due to my condition.

Each can have thier own opinion and be perfectly happy with whichever choice they would make, but I could never consider a person to be a woman who would deliberately choose a penis over a vagina to be happy in life, especially just to project an image rather then a fact.

Terri

QuoteI am seeing a psychologist who has decades of experience with GID.  There's no way she'd ever tell me I was a TS

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Many would.  On my very first visit to the psychiatrist who placed me on HRT and has gone far beyond her obligations to me since.  We talked for a while.  She asked me some very hard and disturbing questions I really did not want to answer, then she talked to me about commitment and if I could see it through to the end regardless of what it would take or the possible harm it could do to my life in personal matters, I told her I could do nothing else regardless.

I had been referred to this psych by my psychologist because of her exerience and knowledge in dealing with Transsexuals with chronic illnesses that were not generally acceptable as HRT patients.  It was to be up to her to do her own diagnoses of me, determine if in her own opinion I was a truely full blown Transsexual who actually had to transition to live a normal life in a normal manner.

Before leaving that appointment with her, she told me straight out that she would be hard on me because of the life risk I would be taking in order to begin estrogen, and that if she in anyway felt I were anything other then Transsexual she would note on that and I'd never see estrogen.  She was very clear on that.

This was through my insurance on Kaiser Permanente and this particular psych was the head of thier Transsexual program in the Bay Area.  She is also Chief of Psychiatry in Redwood City and ChairWoman of the Board of Psychiatry for the Bay Area.  She told me that if she believed I were truely Transsexual and actually willing and wanting to go all the way she would be behind me all the way, but if I weren't she wouldn't deal with me as she treated only Transsexuals and did not have time to waste on prople who could be helped in Standard therapy.

Anyway, she was absolutely clear about it.  She would determine from 17 years of dealing with the transsexual element if I was TS or not and slam the door on my rosy lilly white if I weren't.  This was an important program to her and she truely believes in the needs of the most critically affected people.

Trust me, the ones who deal in the field of Transsexual treatment as a specialty absolutely will tell you if you are or simply someone who needs help of a different nature.  Those that will give you a few interviews and slap a script on you are not at all the same as an experienced specialist.

Your post was fine Gracie, like you noted, I was just responding to the idea that a qualified psych would not tell you what they thought of your condition.  You are totally right that they would not do so at the start of therapy with you and that it is through this therapy that you come to terms with yourself about what you are and are not.

I tend to lean a little or more on topics of therapy and transition and most often am not actually trying to dismantle a particular post but particular ideas which many have come to believe as gospel which are many times wrong.

Often enough those just starting on thier own journeys spend time on  many boards and circles which emphasise that if any therapyst that doesn't get right to the trans issue and qualifies you and writes you scripts for hormones then one should leave and find a new psych, but like you seem to agree, it is a time consuming process to make such a justification before granting hormones which could litterally ruin the life of a person that has simply misread other causes for persuing feminine life and body.

I feel it is important to understand that many of the so called specialists do make oppinions about thier patients and don't write scripts unless it "feels right" to them.  It would be irresponsible to do otherwise.  I just like to keep issues straight, it's not that i'm disagreeing with all areas of a post, just ideas I see displayed at times that reinforce expectations of those who are new to all this and don't always get both sides of a story.

There was nothing wrong with anything you said and I'm truely sorry if I misunderstood how you ment that phraise.  I can be prone to that as I am one of those that are basically insomnic and I'm not always clear minded enough to sort things out in what I read as clearly as I should in the context of how and why it is written, I sometimes only see the direct verbal connection.  It's one of the things I work on, but as an entirety I liked your post and had nothing against it other then a statement I took as what a qualified specialist would or would not do.  Again, I oppologise if I read that statement wrong and I'll try to be more careful about such things.

Never worry about what you have to say here as long as it adhears to the rules.  Issues are often disagreed with and discussed, but we do so as ladies and gentlemen and even in disagreement, things are focused and learned from.  Myself, I'm always ready for a discussion on any issue regardless of my stand on it as I constantly learn things I may not have thought of or encountered.

Keep posting, you have a reasonable and clear projection in your writing and I would imagine have a lot to say, so always say it as you see it.

It's not so much that you need to clarify anything you said as it is to me to better understand what I thought you said.  Again sorry for misreading it, I should not have posted an objection.

Terri

I wanted to respond to the idea that the therapist would give a letter on the first time. I think that any therapist that does that, you should get up and run out as fast as you can. I was in therapy for about 4 years and I did have other problems, but we talked about my Trans situation a lot in that 4 years. I did go to one other therapist on my own therapist idea. They had talked before I had seen her and they talked after I had gone twice. She did write me a letter also.
  Another post came up that ask the questions would you rather look fem and not have SRS or would you have SRS and look a little masculine. I took the SRS as I'm very happy at not looking at what I was seeing in the mirror every morning. Now, you might say that no one else sees that, but I do. This is for me and not anyone else. I'm older and the hormones have soften my features a little, but no they can't do it all. I'm lucky as I don't have an adams apple and not a big brow. I do have a prominant jaw though. Oh well. Have a nice day to all.
Love Sheila

You look perfectly feminine to me, Sheila.

And, FtM's generally only have the choice of appearing masculine to the outside world (largely without question after sufficient time on T), yet retaining the original equipment down below. I don't think I'd trade it for daily difficulty passing and the proper equipment, but I sure wish I could have both.

Dennis

Hi Gracie,

Thanks for reading through this entire post. I hope that you're not blurry eyed.  ;D It has been an interesting journey that I've been on though, and  yes I have definately learned to be patient and I definately have grown wiser. In March my GP has requested that I have an ultra sound done on my kidney. My last blood test showed that there was a small problem, and he just wants to make sure that there is absolutely nothing wrong, and I'm going to ask him if it's safe for me to start taking a proper treatment of hormones.

I'm really glad that you're seeing a well experienced psychologist, but it's up to you to know if you're a TS or not. I'm sure that you're looking forward to getting your letter for starting HRT and then your SRS letter. Be patient though. 8)

I thought about just getting BA surgery myself, but I've read alot of bad reports about it, and I'd rather develop my own and risk less chances.

Thanks for your support Gracie, and I hope that all goes well with you.

Terri, my friend,I've known about your situation for  along time,a nd I do sympathize with you, but I'm a little different. I'm not all that bothered by my male genitals as you are. So either way it doesn't matter. As long as I can look feminine is all that really matters to me. What's between my legs is of less concern to me.  ;D

Gina