Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Let me preface this post by apologizing for my negativity as of late.  Usually, I'm positive, but I've been having some difficulties.

I wanted to know if anyone has any suggestions on getting over fears regarding rejection and ones "passibility".  I'm getting very close to coming out and should be starting hormones within the next two months.  As a result, I have been panicking about being rejected and caste aside by everyone.  While I worry most about my family, I also get scared about what everyone else might say (including strangers).  It's weird, but I really hate the idea of being judged and hated for living as who I am.  The worst part is I believe I will never be accepted as a women by anyone.  Even though it's healthy to not care about what others think, I really feel need to be accepted socially as a woman by others.  However, I don't see that ever happening.  It's as though I'm always going to be see as a man by society.  None of the other girls will see me as one.  No guy would ever want to have me as his girlfriend.   I fear that everyone else will write me off as a delusional man that thinks he is a girl.   Now, I have to transition, but I don't know how to deal with this type of rejection. 

Now, I know passing reduces the amount of societal rejection, but I really don't know if I ever will get there.  Sure, I am young enough for hormones to take effect, but I really can't see it working on me.  Everyday that I look at myself in the mirror, I feel like crying.  I've been told that I have lots of potential and that I will pass well enough, but I can't see it.  I look at others here and can't help but feel like I could never get to that stage.  I hate looking at other women knowing I will never be pretty and never get to look like them.  It hurts to know I probably won't ever pass. Yet, I know that passing isn't everything.  In the end, I need to transition and not worry so much about others.

Sometimes I feel like I should just give up and try really hard to be a boy; however, I know that won't work.  But I really don't know how I can handle the pressures of transitioning even though it's my only chance for happiness.  I just don't see how I can have a successful transition like others have had.  I really don't know.  Guess there isn't much point other than letting my scared emotions out.

Quote from: learningtolive on May 27, 2013, 12:53:56 PM
I wanted to know if anyone has any suggestions on getting over fears regarding rejection and ones "passibility".

Several suggestions:

* If you are out as a non-passing trans woman, remind yourself that it is helpful to all of us to put a face on transgender. Showing people that we're not deviants or lunatics, but intelligent, sensible, people who are proud of who we are.

* Ever spent time IRL around non-passing trans women? I have. Many of the ones I know are very happy with their transitions and do not carry the added stress of wondering whether they are being clocked or not. Nearly everyone accepts them as women,

* Remind yourself that, passing or not, you're a beautiful woman.

Good luck, LTL. Hope this helps.

Physical appearance isn't the only thing that makes someone beautiful.  You can have all the physical beauty in the world and yet if you have a nasty disposition or a not-so-nice attitude, it makes you seem less beautiful.  The same can be said for the opposite.  There are people that I know that some would call not attractive at all, but to me they are so beautiful because their heart shines through.  From the short time I have been here and read your posts, you seem like a really wonderful person and I feel that no matter what, you will still be beautiful.

60% of women are average and some may call them unattractive....I have only recently thought of myself as an average semi attractive woman....only because I have been told and treated as such. Inside I still feel like an ugly woman!! but at least its not a feeling of an ugly man as much!

I understand I will never be treated as just another women with people that know my past. Even though these people have accepted and treated me with respect....I still see (or feel) certain behaviors.

for example....I happen (accidentally) to live across a lesbian couple...I talk to them frequently and consider them friends....the other day they had a friend I never seen over....as I was doing some work in my front yard their friend was giving me some curius looks. The feeling I got is that my neighbors described me as someone that was once a man....I feel she was giving me that look of geezz she use to be a man hmmm I cant tell.  I have been told this before...yes it may seem like a compliment but not one I prefer to hear or "feel"

I always compare my situation to being on a sinking ship...I could go the whole time being accepted as just another women...up until the ship starts to sink and they tell people to get in the life boats. They announce women and children first...as I attempt to get in someone says "oh not you, your not an actual women"  This is just my weird way of describing how I feel that I'm not truly excepted by people that know my past.

I feel ya LTL.  OMG do I feel ya.

My best advice is wallow in and enjoy being yourself.  In my albeit brief experience most people see me, clock me, then after about 30 seconds of interacting with me have this little light go on in their head, "yup, she's a woman." and we have no problems.  It's like they see how happy and natural I am and they just "get" it.  No words necessary.  I get invited to girls times out at work.  Stores offer me the same oppertunities to spend money they would offet a cisgender woman. ;)

That Male Fail thread can get me down though.  When I dress andro, I know... I know my past shows. So I do wrestle with this still.

The key thing for me was to just start going out there as me.  I had to experience that life was better for me, even being clocked regularly.  I am optimistic you'll find the same.  Cause, sure there will be a cost to pay in coming out, but, you're paying a mighty price trying to force a male life.  The price of living that false life,  that's hard to top. 

Go get em' (when you're ready) girl.  You're going to do great!

I have had alot of the same fears you have. I am sure your family may be upset and confused for a while, but through time they will accept you for who you are. They are family, after all. As far as  friends go, I am waiting until I start on HRT before I tell them, I think. If they can not accept you for who you are, some probably won't, then time to get new friends. I think it is natural to feel the need to be socially accepted. Like wolves we live in packs, We are a community based animals. I believe you will do fine, your friends you lose will probably be replaced with friends you deserve.

I hope I helped you, and in doing so helped myself. :)

The simple fact is except for a few rare exceptions you will, somewhere, sometime, somehow, get clocked. Hell, even cis women get accused of being T's. This is where attitude helps. Unfortunately attitude is often developed by lots of practice, self-confidence,  and building self-esteem. Which tends to require going out and having to experience the real world on it's terms.

I found that the overwhelming joy of being out in that real world as the real me more than tipped the scales in my favor and away from "The Fear Factor". I started with baby steps. First just going out to me group meetings, eventually to see my therapist. From there it was WTF, just go out and shop afterwards.

The important common thread here is choosing the venues wisely. All were relatively safe and readily controlled. For months it wasn't a true RLE which was OK since I am only part time. I've gone out to movies alone. I wouldn't dream of going to a red-neck bar.

Stopping fear like most things trans and getting to Carnegie Hall takes practice, practice, practice.

I would try not to worry about it too much because there are some things you juts have to do and there really isn't a choice involved. This is one of those things. Well you could choose not to transition but remember that line from Braveheart about you could go home and sure you will live and die in your bed many years from now and then on that day would you give everything in between that day and this just for one chance. (I actually think Braveheart stole that from the St. Crispin's Day speech in Shakespeare's Henry V).

The point is no matter what happens it is much better then shrinking back and settling for the joyless life you will live as a male even if it is uneventful and no one will question it. Imagine that you will pass. Imagine that everyone accepts you. Imagine your life after you transtion and how beautiful it will be!

Oh, and totally don't worry about being a little bit down. Just don't let it happen too often lol JK

As long as you end up passing, the vast majority of people will end up accepting you, even if they have trouble at first. To this I'd like to add that probably 90 % of people convinced they'll never pass properly and be pretty are completely wrong. And of the remaining 10 %, half are partly wrong, in that they might not exactly be pretty but they pass just fine, and/or they still don't think they pass but they do to the rest of the planet.

I haven't seen you with my own eyes, but if you've been told you have a lot of potential, I think I can safely bet you're among the 95 %.

And even if you're in the unlucky bunch, it's still a majority that'll accept you. You'd be surprised. As long as you have the right attitude about it (that is, just generally acting normal and not being an ass), things will go really smoothly. The only exception is maybe Bible Town, Texas (stereotypes, I know~). And even then! I've heard of people in very religious communities who were, surprisingly, widely accepted!

So far, I've had nothing but good surprises regarding people's reactions. Apart from my father, but we've never had a good relationship. And I'm far from living in a big city where people actually know transsexuals, oh no. Yet everyone I've come out to has been at the very least okay with it. Some are also pretty curious and ask bland questions, but it can't be helped. :p

You said you liked video games, right? Ever tried Dungeons and Dragons? Having a lot of people not accept you is a critical failure. 1/20 chance. And having people hate you for what you are is probably a critical failure on the second throw as well. 1/400. I'm not a statistician, but this sounds like a pretty advantageous lottery. Not to mention that contrary to a die, you can help your chances with your actions and how you do the coming-outs (letters are a great idea IMO by the way).

Unless doctors play with you like they did with me (and it would appear I'm a pretty rare case of bad luck), fighting the anxiety and gathering the courage to come out is by far the hardest step, and if not, it's close. After you do, it's all going to go more smoothly. You can just gradually be more yourself as you feel comfortable with it and before you know it you'll look like a girl.

Often you're accepted surprisingly well. Sometimes you have to work a bit to have them accept you. Rarely will acceptance be really hard to achieve.

Thanks everyone.  I have to transition and will do so, but I really don't want to be rejected by everyone and be unpassable.  I'm really hoping the hormones will work and help me (I'm under 25), but it's not a guarantee and hormones only do so much.   I can't help but feel sad that I'll never be like the other girls my age and will never be accepted amongst them.    It hurts to know I'll probably never meet a guy who could accept me.  And it hurts to know that almost everyone in general will see me as a delusional male.  Yes, I have the acceptance of my friends, but they are really cool and open people.  Not everyone is like them.  Yeah, I live in NY, but there are transphobic people here as well.  And I really don't know what my family will do or say.  There is really no guarantee that I won't be a society's reject. And while I have been told I will pass easily in time, I can't help but feel everyone that tells me that is just lying to me.  I'm not ugly, but I certainly don't look like a pretty girl and doubt I ever will.  I've been told I am handsome, but that means I look manly  and doesn't help me feel better.  If I don't ever pass, I really don't know how I could be happy. I respect those who were able to go through it all without passing, but it really saddens me to know I may never pass as female.  I'm just sick at looking at other girls my age and feeling jealous.  I wish I could be like any other girl my age and not worry about all of this. 

Dear Learningtolive, 

And what an appropriate title for your situation?  Like your previous corespondents I urge you to put on your most confident smile and get out there.  I was so sure I could never do this.  I could never pass and people would hate and abuse me.  That awful self rejection cost me decades of hiding, denial and a chance to live free at a younger age.  There has never been a better time culturally and perhaps for you as an individual too.  Each step you take can ease those fears and build your strength.  I found strangers to be easiest of all.  People out shopping, for instances, seem much more intent on their own goals and we are just another interesting person with a special smile.  I say keep them guessing and intrigued.  Family and friends with a long history may have challenges and if you give them space to talk out loud about it you are helping them to learn and grow.  Please do not let fears rule your life---I waited a too long time to discover how being ourselves is so very empowering and what a relief!  Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder so start giving some love to that girl in the mirror, she's in there!

Hugs,
Tessa James

.

I don't think there's anyone trans out there who hasn't had these feelings.

Having worked in theatre for some years it's no different in any way from stage fright. The cisgendered suffer from it too. I'm currently working with professional actors to get some stuff onto video and sometimes it can be a pain.

'Can we do that again?'
'Can you try another angle?'
'Watch out for my double chin. I don't want anyone to see my double chin.'
'Can I try it again but this time from this side? Standing on that side makes me look fat.'

The only way round is is to develop attitude and to project it out.

Passing can of course be beneficial to acceptance, but the greater part of acceptance lies in being comfortable in your own skin and being able to project that outwards to others. Nobody really enjoys being around someone who's ill at ease with themselves and what's more, if you are ill at ease with yourself you'll only succeed in attracting more attention to yourself. 9 times out of 10 being comfortable in your own skin trumps everything else.

If people don't accept you.. well.. there's 7 billion or so others to work your way through. And I've yet to meet anyone who isn't accepted by anyone. In fact I don't think it's possible to achieve that sort of thing.

Another thing is that there's some standard comebacks if anyone says 'You're trans/a ->-bleeped-<-..etc'

'Yes I know..'
'And...?'
'Your point is...?'
'Are you talking to me?'

It takes a certain amount of stupidity to say or do something to throw someone's gender issues in their face.

Therefore look on the bright side. You'll spend less time wondering whether someone you're dealing with is an idiot or not because the idiots tend to do or say things which remove all doubt.

That's the payoff, you get more chance of living a life which is more likely to be idiot free. That's got to be worth something, right?

May I also suggest you go at it slow...let HRT do a little work....hair removal and being misgendered while still living male will help ones insecurities....although some do just jump right into it!!

You do seem a bit more fragile...like myself. I feared rejection so much that I didn't go fulltime until I was being gendered female almost regularly....the stage up to this point was very awkward since I still at times needed my born gender to be known. I can look back now and laugh at some of the situations...but at the time :(

You will know its time to go full time when children and senior citizens don't look at you weird!! Although come to think about it I still see seniors doing this to many people!!

I don't really have any comforting words I am afraid but I would like to share one of the things I worked through before I fully came out to myself. I had to imagine I was in the very worst post-transition situation I could think of. Rejected and shunned by everyone, most especially friends and family, sacked from my job and unable to find work and stuck in the vile sort of housing I lived in back when I was squatting.

Once I had the picture clear in my head so I could clearly see, hear and feel each excruciating detail I asked myself whether my current situation was worse and if transitioning would be worth it if that was the cost.

Rosie

Here again, it's almost the same.
I'm feeling that something isn't ok and I need to be more feminine... but I'm not feeling 100%as a girl so that make my transition not necessary to be happy. I'm thinking about partial transition.. but anyway.

I have my girlfriend and I chase her as a guy. And so, even if she tell me every-time that I've to be happy and do whatever is needed to be so... I feel like betraying her if I change. And she not lesbian (at that time -- I make her change while I'm changing too ^^)
I have my family too. Some say that the important point is to be happy... what ever others say. BUT being happy for me is also having good relationships with my parents and grand-parents. I love my family more than being a girl and I'll probably never have a single pill of E if my close family cannot handle this with me. And it's not just about them and me, cause they love me and I'm sure they could accept everything... but about then and the others. I don't want to have my parent facing social discomfort because of me. I can face it, I don't know if they can.

I'm planing to come out to them. Tell the truth about me and what I feel even what I just said. I want to face my transition with them and my girlfriend if I do it. So the decision of starting or not hrt will be a familial one... I hope.
But you seem much more feminine than I do and in that way our needs about transitioning are different and make you situation more struggling.

I really wish you to find your way to femininity =)
If you feel too ugly PM me, I'll send you pic of me and you'll find yourself top model  ;D


(and again, sorry for my english, it isn't my mother tong neither my father one... ^^)

I am scared about all this too. Its true passing isn't the be all and end all, but hey, sue me if I don't want people not wanting their children around me because the idiots think that trans people are some kinda perverts and to have to worry about being attacked just for being read.

I suppose the only way is to try it and see. Unlike you though, I don't think I could find it in me to stop. 

Quote from: Steph21 on May 27, 2013, 05:43:41 PM
I am scared about all this too. Its true passing isn't the be all and end all, but hey, sue me if I don't want people not wanting their children around me because the idiots think that trans people are some kinda perverts and to have to worry about being attacked just for being read.

I suppose the only way is to try it and see. Unlike you though, I don't think I could find it in me to stop. 

No, there is no way I could stop either.  To be honest, I don't know if I can live without transitioning.  I imagine that this will be it for me if I stop.  It's that important to me, so I must continue.  I just really hope I get accepted and turn out to be passable, but I fear the worst.  I have spent the whole day crying about never passing and don't know how to get out of the mindset that I'll never have a successful transition like others have had here on this site.  Maybe, I'm too hard on myself and should just relax until I start hrt.

By the way, you pass quite well from your avatar and I love your hair!

This is a biggy for me as well,over the years I have gotten more comfortable with myself but in the beginning I was worried about being clocked all the time. As I became more and more comfortable I came to realize the thing that gets us clocked the easiest is we are not comfortable, which pretty much I believe is all of us. Even now I wonder occasionally if someone think's, guess's or even wonders. I suppose we never really get rid of that fear. But learning how to be ourselves and becoming comfortable with knowing that makes us far less noticeable to open the door to give people the opportunity to be curious.

Calico is so right. The more confident you are the better. Your so much less likely to get clocked

Fear of rejection, fear of not passing and self-loathing was what kept me from transitioning for the longest time. In the end though things got so bad that it no longer mattered. I was going to do it, and if I failed I would resort to plan B. (I didn't really expect to survive transition but I did at least expect to experience a few moments of life as my true self).

Rejection turned out to be a very small problem. No-one rejected me as far as I can remember. The passing-business was a whole lot tougher but I did eventually succeed in that department as well.

Some people are very patient with their transition. They do hrt for a prolonged period before they go full-time. I did not. I went full-time right off the bat. I went as fast as I possibly could at all times. I raced through it all with hrt, ffs and srs all completed in just over 2 years after first coming out. Though it cut down my total transition time I think it actually did some damage to me. Misgendering was rampant and the feedback from the spectators was bleak to say the least. I had my inability to pass hammered into my head, and when the time came when I did in fact start to pass I had a very hard time believing it. I couldn't tell if I was delusional or not the times I had experiences that confirmed to me that I was passing. I'm thinking that if I had waited longer going full-time then perhaps I would have passed better off the bat and would have had an easier time believing in it. It took me quiet some time to be fully convinced.

For me transitioning was very hard, but not always exactly in the ways I expected. What I thought would be the most difficult was being able to look my friends, family and myself in the eye after coming clean. As it turned out this was the least of my worries. After having come out and gotten started I felt pretty good about myself and my situation. It was the long and arduous path to passing that made life difficult for me. You just need to have faith in yourself and give it the time and effort that it takes.

Quote from: learningtolive on May 27, 2013, 02:40:19 PM
Thanks everyone.  I have to transition and will do so, but I really don't want to be rejected by everyone and be unpassable.  I'm really hoping the hormones will work and help me (I'm under 25), but it's not a guarantee and hormones only do so much.   I can't help but feel sad that I'll never be like the other girls my age and will never be accepted amongst them.    It hurts to know I'll probably never meet a guy who could accept me.  And it hurts to know that almost everyone in general will see me as a delusional male.  Yes, I have the acceptance of my friends, but they are really cool and open people.  Not everyone is like them.  Yeah, I live in NY, but there are transphobic people here as well.  And I really don't know what my family will do or say.  There is really no guarantee that I won't be a society's reject. And while I have been told I will pass easily in time, I can't help but feel everyone that tells me that is just lying to me.  I'm not ugly, but I certainly don't look like a pretty girl and doubt I ever will.  I've been told I am handsome, but that means I look manly  and doesn't help me feel better.  If I don't ever pass, I really don't know how I could be happy. I respect those who were able to go through it all without passing, but it really saddens me to know I may never pass as female.  I'm just sick at looking at other girls my age and feeling jealous.  I wish I could be like any other girl my age and not worry about all of this.

Saaaay. I think you have a misunderstanding about the meaning of the verb "to know". You don't "know" what you believe. You only think you do when you're in a negative state of mind (or very positive). Where's your proof that you'll never be accepted? That no guy will accept you? Nowhere, isn't it? You're smarter than this. You know you're convincing yourself about your beliefs to feel miserable. I know how your feel: I've done the very same thing long enough. But that's also why I can tell you you're only hurting yourself and making your path more difficult.

Quote from: A on May 29, 2013, 08:25:07 AM
Saaaay. I think you have a misunderstanding about the meaning of the verb "to know". You don't "know" what you believe. You only think you do when you're in a negative state of mind (or very positive). Where's your proof that you'll never be accepted? That no guy will accept you? Nowhere, isn't it? You're smarter than this. You know you're convincing yourself about your beliefs to feel miserable. I know how your feel: I've done the very same thing long enough. But that's also why I can tell you you're only hurting yourself and making your path more difficult.

A, you're right.  I was having a bad weekend and spent a lot of time looking in the mirror and crying.  I think I can be way too hard on myself at times.  I'm still in the very beginning of things, so I shouldn't judge myself as harshly as I have been.  All in all my situation isn't that bad even though it's hard for me to see it that way.  I don't know if I'll ever be accepted by others, but I can't let fear of others dictate my life.

I still have huge problems with this.  It's kept me from dating since I transitioned.  Everyone is right confidence helps a lot, but some days it's just not there for me.

Quote from: Sadie on May 29, 2013, 10:29:56 AM
I still have huge problems with this.  It's kept me from dating since I transitioned.  Everyone is right confidence helps a lot, but some days it's just not there for me.

Well, I've never really dated throughout my life because it brings up too many issues.  I don't want to be a "boyfriend".  I'd like to start getting out, but I'm still not on hrt, so I think I should wait.  I don't want to be meet someone and be deceptive about my identity as I'm still really living in boy mode.  Who knows though, I'm sure there are bi guys out there who wouldn't mind my transition if they found out after we started dating.  But it's tough. 

Don't let confidence issues defeat you.  It's best to take things in stride.  While I was crying and feeling down a few days ago about my appearance, today I was having fun styling my hair and feeling pretty.  We all have our ups and downs.  Though, it's best to try to be as up as possible even if it's sometimes difficult.

That's the Spirit LTL :)

Quote from: learningtolive on May 29, 2013, 04:06:59 PM
Well, I've never really dated throughout my life because it brings up too many issues.  I don't want to be a "boyfriend".  I'd like to start getting out, but I'm still not on hrt, so I think I should wait.  I don't want to be meet someone and be deceptive about my identity as I'm still really living in boy mode.  Who knows though, I'm sure there are bi guys out there who wouldn't mind my transition if they found out after we started dating.  But it's tough. 

Don't let confidence issues defeat you.  It's best to take things in stride.  While I was crying and feeling down a few days ago about my appearance, today I was having fun styling my hair and feeling pretty.  We all have our ups and downs.  Though, it's best to try to be as up as possible even if it's sometimes difficult.

i can understand this worry. i know with guys i just tell them like its no big deal and make them comfortable which normally means sitting and eating. so far i have only had one guy say he didnt feel like dating me but the others were all ok thus far. well this football player is kind of a hommie G so i know he wont be so im not going to tell him in person. hes over the phone...and then im going to maybe dump him haha

Quote from: Tristan on May 29, 2013, 04:26:37 PM
i can understand this worry. i know with guys i just tell them like its no big deal and make them comfortable which normally means sitting and eating. so far i have only had one guy say he didnt feel like dating me but the others were all ok thus far. well this football player is kind of a hommie G so i know he wont be so im not going to tell him in person. hes over the phone...and then im going to maybe dump him haha

Yeah, if you worry about your safety telling him over the phone might be the best way.  It's better safe than sorry.   I've had plenty of negative experiences from jocks.  It wasn't uncommon for them to bully or  beat me up.  Because of all the past humiliation and bullying, I doubt I could ever go out with a stereotypical jock.  They're not all like that and I don't prejudge  individuals, but those past negative memories will always haunt me. 

Yeah jocks love to billy people. Even more so when they have secrecy crushes on you. To bad for him though. Little fact I'm still just as flexible as I was when I cheered. I still keep it up and can do a scorpion. Haha he missed out big time

Quote from: learningtolive on May 29, 2013, 10:15:42 AM
A, you're right.  I was having a bad weekend and spent a lot of time looking in the mirror and crying.  I think I can be way too hard on myself at times.  I'm still in the very beginning of things, so I shouldn't judge myself as harshly as I have been.  All in all my situation isn't that bad even though it's hard for me to see it that way.  I don't know if I'll ever be accepted by others, but I can't let fear of others dictate my life.

*Pat* Good girl. :D (Not laughing at you or putting your down, just my weird self trying to be funny and probably failing at it.

Quote from: learningtolive on May 29, 2013, 04:06:59 PM
Well, I've never really dated throughout my life because it brings up too many issues.  I don't want to be a "boyfriend".  I'd like to start getting out, but I'm still not on hrt, so I think I should wait.  I don't want to be meet someone and be deceptive about my identity as I'm still really living in boy mode.  Who knows though, I'm sure there are bi guys out there who wouldn't mind my transition if they found out after we started dating.  But it's tough.

I totally understand. It's because of that that I've only had two girlfriends, both trans and over the Internet. Because being a boyfriend would probably hurt much more than being alone. The affective side of my personality was completely locked up before I started transitioning, and is probably only starting to open up.

Hey Tristen, if you are worried about your safety and plan on breaking up with him anyways, I wouldn't even tell him. I would just break up with him and let that be the end of it.

Quote from: misschievous on May 30, 2013, 03:37:35 AM
Hey Tristen, if you are worried about your safety and plan on breaking up with him anyways, I wouldn't even tell him. I would just break up with him and let that be the end of it.

you know your right. why should i even tell him. i already know he is quite homophobic. and since he is a O.G. trans or gay is all the same to him. i dont think i will tell him. i have to be extra careful until the fall anyways and he wont be at our only other shoot. thank you for that tip. i cant believe i didnt even think about that.

With how critical I am of my self, what others can say or do is very mild in comparison, so its not such a big deal to me anymore. When I'm at work or out somewhere, I've gotten to where I don't even think about it unless a guy hits on me.

Renee i like your style. its a great way to drop the fear away

Quote from: Tristan on May 30, 2013, 08:26:41 AM
you know your right. why should i even tell him. i already know he is quite homophobic. and since he is a O.G. trans or gay is all the same to him. i dont think i will tell him. i have to be extra careful until the fall anyways and he wont be at our only other shoot. thank you for that tip. i cant believe i didnt even think about that.

I was going to say something, but miss beat me to it. I wouldn't share anything about trans stuff unless you plan on spending your life with them, and then I'd still wait for a while.

next time you are thinking about telling someone, ask yourself "what would this person think?" or do, than trust worst case scenario for safety, you try to see good in everything to the fault of putting yourself in danger. I am the same and time has taught me that 70-80% of the population are not supportive. so going with the worse case scenario is always the best bet. until you know more anyway

yeah your probably right. i guess telling people can be really dangerous

Quote from: calico on May 30, 2013, 07:29:56 PM
I was going to say something, but miss beat me to it. I wouldn't share anything about trans stuff unless you plan on spending your life with them, and then I'd still wait for a while.

next time you are thinking about telling someone, ask yourself "what would this person think?" or do, than trust worst case scenario for safety, you try to see good in everything to the fault of putting yourself in danger. I am the same and time has taught me that 70-80% of the population are not supportive. so going with the worse case scenario is always the best bet. until you know more anyway

Should have let you say it to begin with. That was exactly what I was thinking. I just didn't word it as well. :)

I think it depends on where you live and what area of the city. There are definitely certain areas that are much more supportive.

Like LA for example. In places like Santa Monica, Venice, the Palisades, Marina del Rey, Westwood, Beverly Hills, Culver City, West Hollywood, Hollywood, Silverlake, and Echo Park, I really wouldn't be worried at all telling ANYONE. But then I think about places like where I live in mid city (not as rich of a neighborhood), inglewood, and slummy areas around downtown I would go as stealth as possible.

It just depends on where you are. Most random people that I've told in the "safe" areas I mentioned are STOKED about it. I mean I really haven't had a single negative interaction to the smallest degree. And in the unsafe areas, I am extremely careful.

I feel the same way about San Francisco, like there are even more safe areas. I mean when I went there for my trach shave I was staying with a friend in a not so hot area. After meeting some people at the local walgreens getting my meds and obviously looking trans as HECK, I wasn't at all worried about being labelled as anything but just another person.

Quote from: Jennygirl on May 31, 2013, 05:01:37 AM
Like LA for example. In places like Santa Monica, Venice, the Palisades, Marina del Rey, Westwood, Beverly Hills, Culver City, West Hollywood, Hollywood, Silverlake, and Echo Park, I really wouldn't be worried at all telling ANYONE. But then I think about places like where I live in mid city (not as rich of a neighborhood), inglewood, and slummy areas around downtown I would go as stealth as possible.

I do agree its been the poorer areas that seem to go hand in hand with a higher I-could-have-a-problem-here potential.  Of course, these are also not so great spots for a woman to be alone either.

In the context of a relationship... That's tough.  I could see if the news wasn't shared at the start the subject becoming harder and harder to broach well.

Misato and Jennygirl your both so right. there are def more areas in the poor sides to have that fear in regards to not passing , rejection or being outed. i know in those types of areas om always extra careful myself. thugs especially seem to freak out that are of my darker complexion if you know what i mean.

Quote from: Tristan on May 31, 2013, 09:07:17 AM
Misato and Jennygirl your both so right. there are def more areas in the poor sides to have that fear in regards to not passing , rejection or being outed. i know in those types of areas om always extra careful myself. thugs especially seem to freak out that are of my darker complexion if you know what i mean.

Over reaction or response because they feel there heterosexuality is in danger, so they do the most homophobic response possible to prove there "straightness"  :eusa_eh: when in truth they are in fact uncertain of their own feelings and lack understanding. :icon_lol: and no offense when I say this Tristen, but they are basically acting like primitive primates.

None taken . They tend to want to been seen that way. The ghetto types

Some food for thought.  I have met some under privileged people who are very accepting of the LGBT community.  And I have met some bigoted upper class individuals as well.  I grew up in a middle to upper middle class area, and I can tell you that I've encountered a good share of bigoted jerks.  You can't really judge people based on their socio economic status.  It's good to take precautions when entering a particular neighborhood, but don't automatically make assumptions about all who inhabit the general region.  You might be surprised. 

Quote from: learningtolive on June 01, 2013, 12:52:34 AM
Some food for thought.  I have met some under privileged people who are very accepting of the LGBT community.  And I have met some bigoted upper class individuals as well.  I grew up in a middle to upper middle class area, and I can tell you that I've encountered a good share of bigoted jerks.  You can't really judge people based on their socio economic status.  It's good to take precautions when entering a particular neighborhood, but don't automatically make assumptions about all who inhabit the general region.  You might be surprised.

just like mentioned before, the best policy is to assume the worst ;) homophobes and ultra mega straight people can be in any town or economic structure.

I like to think that the main reason I haven't encountered negativity from any person anywhere is that I am a good judge of character. I feel like it's pretty easy to "read" someone who might be closed off to LGBT related things just by the look in their eye. Definitely after having a few words with someone, I know for sure.

Quote from: learningtolive on June 01, 2013, 12:52:34 AM
Some food for thought.  I have met some under privileged people who are very accepting of the LGBT community.  And I have met some bigoted upper class individuals as well.  I grew up in a middle to upper middle class area, and I can tell you that I've encountered a good share of bigoted jerks.  You can't really judge people based on their socio economic status.  It's good to take precautions when entering a particular neighborhood, but don't automatically make assumptions about all who inhabit the general region.  You might be surprised.

I do agree with this.  Doing otherwise would go against my philosophy too.  Indeed, bigotry and coolness know no class. 

My earlier post is probably me still reacting to some times I was worried things were going to get physically violent.  Women in those parts of town where they happened would have had to be extra cautious too so, even if I were cis, a threat would have been there just for a different reason.

Given that I went to a job site in a bad part of Chicago once (one day people came to work and there was a dead body on the property bad) and at that plant I found some really nice people, I would do well to remember that experience too.

Quote from: calico on June 01, 2013, 01:04:39 AM
just like mentioned before, the best policy is to assume the worst ;) homophobes and ultra mega straight people can be in any town or economic structure.

I agree.

Quote from: Jennygirl on June 01, 2013, 02:03:39 AM
I like to think that the main reason I haven't encountered negativity from any person anywhere is that I am a good judge of character. I feel like it's pretty easy to "read" someone who might be closed off to LGBT related things just by the look in their eye. Definitely after having a few words with someone, I know for sure.

Generally, that is good advice, but it's not full proof.  While I agree that you want to read somebody before you tell them, sometimes that really doesn't matter.  When you are a kid and go to school with bullies who don't like "gays", there's little one could do to avoid them.  Sure, if you pass as female and no one knows, it's easier to avoid lgbt hostility by not disclosing it to jerks.  But when you have difficulty hiding your differences, those people will find you.  Throughout my life, I've had people whisper "is he gay".  That's fine, but the bullies aren't as nice about it.  I've been beaten up quite a few times and went through some other things I don't wish to discuss.  It wasn't uncommon for me to be called a F** and someone even went as far as finding my car and  writing it on my windshield with their fingers.  Even in environments where the LGBT community should be accepted, I was discriminated against at times.  I've had a superior at work come into my office and give me a dead flower and said this is for the prettiest girl in the office. It was an insult. I've also been brought to his office and had him ask if he was sexier than the other guys in the office.  I won't say what my position was, but this should have been a very pro LGBT office given many different factors. All this occurred without me being out as gay or trans.  Even though I feel I have a good masculine shield, I have been detected throughout my life.  Sometimes people can figure things out and there is no avoiding these people.

I share this because I want everyone to be safe and realize there are potential predators out there.  It doesn't matter if you are in NY or Alabama, they exist.  And despite the experiences of others here, you can find plenty of bigotry in more well to do areas.  I have seen and experienced it first hand.  Just make sure you are all safe out there regardless of where you live.  It's better to be safe than sorry. 

All in all, it could have been much worse and I'm grateful that I had a good childhood.  I know there are others who had things much worse, and I sympathize with them wholeheartedly. 

Quote from: Misato on June 01, 2013, 07:14:21 AM
I do agree with this.  Doing otherwise would go against my philosophy too.  Indeed, bigotry and coolness know no class. 

My earlier post is probably me still reacting to some times I was worried things were going to get physically violent.  Women in those parts of town where they happened would have had to be extra cautious too so, even if I were cis, a threat would have been there just for a different reason.

Given that I went to a job site in a bad part of Chicago once (one day people came to work and there was a dead body on the property bad) and at that plant I found some really nice people, I would do well to remember that experience too.

I would understand having some caution in Chicago.  It makes sense to be more aware of your surroundings when in a bad town.  I just don't want people to feel they are totally safe in a more wealthy liberal area.  Sometimes, you will be surprised by what you find.  It's best to be safe.

Yeah I'm careful. I know people who are in the lower bracket of money making example ghetto fab people. They have nothing to loose and don't mind going to jail for stomping someone. Wealthy people normally do mind jail. They want to protect there way of life haha. So I just go with that small fear that may pop up if I feel they are LBGT non friendly. It's better than regretting it later

Quote from: learningtolive on June 01, 2013, 10:34:43 AM
I've had a superior at work come into my office and give me a dead flower and said this is for the prettiest girl in the office. It was an insult. I've also been brought to his office and had him ask if he was sexier than the other guys in the office.  I won't say what my position was, but this should have been a very pro LGBT office given many different factors. All this occurred without me being out as gay or trans.  Even though I feel I have a good masculine shield, I have been detected throughout my life.  Sometimes people can figure things out and there is no avoiding these people.

To be honest, at least in my workplace, both of those incidents would lead to a complaint to our HR diversity representative, and probably resulted in a major admonishment or career termination for the gentleman. Any retaliatory behaviour from his side would be met by similar consequences, and also mean that I'd end up reporting to someone else asap. If your office really is LGBT friendly, it can be worth having a look at the diversity rules and regulations from HR and how their enforcement works. Harassment is never okay.

Quote from: Theo on June 01, 2013, 01:56:06 PM
To be honest, at least in my workplace, both of those incidents would lead to a complaint to our HR diversity representative, and probably resulted in a major admonishment or career termination for the gentleman. Any retaliatory behaviour from his side would be met by similar consequences, and also mean that I'd end up reporting to someone else asap. If your office really is LGBT friendly, it can be worth having a look at the diversity rules and regulations from HR and how their enforcement works. Harassment is never okay.

Well that was at an old job where I no longer work.   So, it's water under the bridge.

Quote from: Jennygirl on June 01, 2013, 02:03:39 AM
I like to think that the main reason I haven't encountered negativity from any person anywhere is that I am a good judge of character. I feel like it's pretty easy to "read" someone who might be closed off to LGBT related things just by the look in their eye. Definitely after having a few words with someone, I know for sure.

I will say I'm also good at this! but you can't pick your coworkers or other business relationships.

What do you do though when you here comments or the bigotry toward all people that are different and you are not out as trans??

I know darn well I work with some that would treat me 110% differently if they knew what my born gender was....I will admit I am making presumptions....but I can guarantee a good analogy would be someone that is pro NRA wouldn't think much of someone from PETA.

This is the same with being prejudiced for being a woman.....Sometimes I would just like to tell some of these men.... You know something sweety!!...I do know what I'm talking about..... cause I USED to be a man!!

The ONLY time I've ever experienced this was this past holiday season and my uncle made a very homophobic comment. I was not out to my family yet and still presenting as ever so slightly feminine guy. Nobody had a clue at that point.

I am out everywhere now though, and I do not care at all about being stealth- at least at the moment. Right now since I am basically not supposed to talk (voice surgery), I have been outing myself to strangers if I find myself needing to communicate with them (only if I read them as trans accepting) and I've had no problem whatsoever. Most of the time, people's eyes light up and they smile genuinely when I tell them I'm transgendered. I really like that reaction. It gives me hope of a more globally accepting society.

Quote from: Jennygirl on June 01, 2013, 11:21:47 PM
The ONLY time I've ever experienced this was this past holiday season and my uncle made a very homophobic comment. I was not out to my family yet and still presenting as ever so slightly feminine guy. Nobody had a clue at that point.

I am out everywhere now though, and I do not care at all about being stealth- at least at the moment. Right now since I am basically not supposed to talk (voice surgery), I have been outing myself to strangers if I find myself needing to communicate with them (only if I read them as trans accepting) and I've had no problem whatsoever. Most of the time, people's eyes light up and they smile genuinely when I tell them I'm transgendered. I really like that reaction. It gives me hope of a more globally accepting society.

Perhaps things get easier when one passes.  I'm still in the beginning stages, so I can't really relate with the stage that you are currently in.  I do know, however, that having feminine traits or being perceived as a fem guy can be harmful.  I guess people are more open to trans people than a fem guy.   That  gives me a lot of hope. However, it's might also come down to where you live.  I'm sure other areas people may be quite different.  Then again, I still don't have the experience to qualify, but I'm getting there!

Quote from: learningtolive on June 01, 2013, 11:56:33 PM
Perhaps things get easier when one passes.  I'm still in the beginning stages, so I can't really relate with the stage that you are currently in.  I do know, however, that having feminine traits or being perceived as a fem guy can be harmful.  I guess people are more open to trans people than a fem guy.   That  gives me a lot of hope. However, it's might also come down to where you live.  I'm sure other areas people may be quite different.  Then again, I still don't have the experience to qualify, but I'm getting there!

Very rarely do I really worry that much about passing. I like to feel like I am when I'm walking down the street or in crowded areas full of random people where everyone is people watching. But when I am one on one with anyone, it hasn't really mattered to me if they know I'm trans. Maybe when my voice recovers and I'm able to pass face to face with people that will change.

Quote from: Jennygirl on June 01, 2013, 11:21:47 PM
Most of the time, people's eyes light up and they smile genuinely when I tell them I'm transgendered. I really like that reaction. It gives me hope of a more globally accepting society.

I can, and do, second having this experience.

Quote from: Jennygirl on June 02, 2013, 12:32:58 AM
Very rarely do I really worry that much about passing. I like to feel like I am when I'm walking down the street or in crowded areas full of random people where everyone is people watching. But when I am one on one with anyone, it hasn't really mattered to me if they know I'm trans. Maybe when my voice recovers and I'm able to pass face to face with people that will change.

Quote from: Misato on June 02, 2013, 04:45:47 PM
I can, and do, second having this experience.

This gives me some hope.   I always think back about the times of been bullied, beaten,  and verbally harassed.  Much of this, not all, had to do with suspicion of my sexuality.   I'm not overly flamboyant, but it's noticeable.  For this reason I always fear people will give me a harder time with transitioning.   Hence, why I am very sensitive about rejection.  Though it seems like this isn't the case for most here.  I'm still living in boy mode, so I can't really comment much on how people will read me.  But I have my first endo appointment tomorrow morning, so hopefully I will be on hormones soon and can start feeling comfortable getting out there.

I'm excited for you :)

Just the act of starting hormones is an extremely gender euphoric experience to say the least. Get ready for the ride of your life!