Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I was going to post this in what made me unhappy but then it would get buried and few would even notice it and since it has to do with all of us I decided to post it here. Over the last few weeks I've gotten PM's from people I know and generally like here who have been getting outrageously mean spirited hate notes from others who disagree with their political, religious, or their personal views on gender or sexuality. I encouraged them to report it to the administrator and they usually refused and took the high road and instead and have dropped their membership and left. I've been a member of Susan's off and on over the years ever since Susan created this website albeit under different names throughout my phases of transition, and I've never seen so much ugliness as exists here now. It's a real shame that this happens here and you can be assured that I will work to see you gone if you continue to act so childishly toward others.

That's sad and it's against the spirit of the site if the notes are indeed hateful with no other purpose than causing bad feelings. I hope some of these rifts can be healed in time and everyone can work to fix these problems. 

I've gotten critical pm's before, but never anything that I would declare as hateful or something that I felt required reporting.  Either way, I don't get why someone would feel the need to reach out to someone with only having the goal of tearing someone down.   I really hope people can come together and find a way to get along rather than fight each other. 

That's really upsetting to hear. It's one thing for disagreements to spring up on the forum, but for people to start letting it bleed over into PMs... Yeah, I imagine I'd feel pretty crappy if I woke up tomorrow morning and I was greeted with a hateful PM in my inbox. Luckily, I've not yet had this experience. Only positive PMs so far. Hope it stays that way.

I'd also encourage people to report this. It is not acceptable behavior.

PMs are for personal support, not personal attacks. Disgusting behaviour. :(

Report them to an Administrator. Honestly, that's the best way to get it taken care of. The site rules don't only apply to public posts, but the content of PM's too.

As a general notice to ANY member - If you've received a PM which you feel violates the rules of the site, upsets you, or is in some other way against the spirit of Susan's and what it stands for, use the Report to Admin link at the bottom right of the PM. No one should be the victim of abusive or hateful personal messages. It defies the purpose of what this site is for.

This is a support site, if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it. Things may get heated around differences in the politics thread and whatnot, but when you take it out of there and make it something personal that is crossing a line IMO.

I hope you can convince some of those people to bring it up to moderators because we don't need people being chased off the site due to some disagreement.

People have disagreements on the forum and everyone whines about it. People decide to keep the disagreements off the forums and take them to PM's as some staff has suggested they do in the past and people still complain.

Just because this is a "support" site, doesn't mean that people are going to get together in a hippie sing-a-long singing "Kumbaya". Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. People will have disagreements and that's the way that is. If you don't want people to argue over things, then ditch the discussion forums altogether. It is absurd to expect people to get along 24/7. Families don't even do that. So, how can you expect this from a bunch of people who only "know" them through text on a screen?

It isn't realistic at all.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on March 16, 2014, 01:12:29 PM
People have disagreements on the forum and everyone whines about it. People decide to keep the disagreements off the forums and take them to PM's as some staff has suggested they do in the past and people still complain.

Just because this is a "support" site, doesn't mean that people are going to get together in a hippie sing-a-long singing "Kumbaya". Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. People will have disagreements and that's the way that is. If you don't want people to argue over things, then ditch the discussion forums altogether. It is absurd to expect people to get along 24/7. Families don't even do that. So, how can you expect this from a bunch of people who only "know" them through text on a screen?

It isn't realistic at all.

Disagreements are fine.  No one can stop that from happening in either the forum or pms. However, disrespecting someone and not allowing them to have their own personal space is another thing.  There needs to be a fine line between people not getting along and not respecting each other's boundaries.  Some things that are said in the privacy of pms can get quite malicious and overly passive aggressive.

I should note that I have no knowledge of what is in these particular pms are who the members in question are.  Perhaps they don't cross the line at all.  In any case, I think people should be careful when writing to someone for critical purposes on a support site. 

Well, When you have people disagreeing about certain touchy subjects over and over and over, people are going to blow up. That's just human nature.

It's OK to disagree, but it's another thing to do it in an aggressive, disrespectful, rude or hateful way. If a person can't disagree in a civil manner - in public on the board or in a PM - then it's simply not on. Personally, this is why I stay out of certain discussions... they are frequently toxic and only have a passing, if any, connection to trans* issues anyway.

Regardless of how you feel about someone or their beliefs there is no room for this kind of incivility especially if you decry the hatred by the world at large for what they perceive as weirdness and then become a hypocrite yourself, come on we can all do better. Got this from one of the MtF members here.....

"There are some vile people at Susan's, I didn't know people talked to others like what I received yesterday via PMs. I responded with reason and they reported me? There's no making friends with these people, we won't even be seen as okay in their twisted minds, we shouldn't be alive in their view and that was expressed to me yesterday in a PM. The shocking thing was, I've felt this person was somewhat friendly to us. I can't help but imagine the evil these people's mindset is capable of if they had absolute power. I'd say they'd likely put us to death. I mean that in all honesty. That is who a good number of these people are IMO. People like you and I, we have a life, we have accomplishments, I'm not spending another second at Susan's, not even to "lurk". I don't want to even see any of that any longer. FA told me yesterday that Jaime's ban is for one month. I don't think she's returning, personally I hope she doesn't. I know you're trying to help some, and that's commendable. I think you do a good job of it. But I'm sure I don't have to tell you, even some of the 'better' ones aren't what they seem, and there's nothing anyone can do to change that."

Kia Ora,

::) Now what's that saying again ? ? ? 

::) Oh yeah... "Unless one is prepared(having a teflon non-stick mind) for the inevitable "personal attacks", tis wise not to discuss politics or religion!"

Einstein's definition of insanity "Continuing to do the same thing over and over again each time hoping for a different outcome/result !" I think he's got a good point....

Metta Anatta :)

Quote from: Ms Grace on March 16, 2014, 01:59:22 PM
It's OK to disagree, but it's another thing to do it in an aggressive, disrespectful, rude or hateful way. If a person can't disagree in a civil manner - in public on the board or in a PM - then it's simply not on. Personally, this is why I stay out of certain discussions... they are frequently toxic and only have a passing, if any, connection to trans* issues anyway.

I appreciate your thoughts Ms. Grace and you're right they can get toxic but shouldn't because some of these issues in this country have everything in the world to do with trans issues whether we like it or not because we're stuck with what the powers that be decree for us and some of it might not be good in the long run, so it does deserve a place to be discussed as adults in a civil manner.

Okay, I'm going to step in here because I think I know more of the specifics of this. And I don't think it's appropriate to be aired in a public forum, with people who may or may not be here to defend themselves. That's why we have staff who regulate what goes on around here.

Before this gets into the realms of attacking specific members, or groups of members, I'm going to reiterate what I said before. In every PM anyone receives, there is the option to report that PM to an Administrator. That means it will be looked at and, if felt appropriate, dealt with in whatever manner deemed necessary.

Use that as a first course of action. I assure you, it WILL be looked into. I would advise against posting specific PM's in a public thread, as they are meant to be private and should be respected as such.

Quote from: Anatta on March 16, 2014, 02:08:49 PM
Kia Ora,

::) Now what's that saying again ? ? ? 

::) Oh yeah... "Unless one is prepared(having a teflon non-stick mind) for the inevitable "personal attacks", tis wise not to discuss politics or religion!"

Einstein's definition of insanity "Continuing to do the same thing over and over again each time hoping for a different outcome/result !" I think he's got a good point....

Metta Anatta :)

No we don't need personal attacks, I'm not particularly religious but do have spiritual beliefs that contrast with your own, and I've never made any negative comments or attacked you. That's how mature civil people conduct themselves.

Quote from: Shantel on March 16, 2014, 02:03:22 PM
Regardless of how you feel about someone or their beliefs there is no room for this kind of incivility especially if you decry the hatred by the world at large for what they perceive as weirdness and then become a hypocrite yourself, come on we can all do better. Got this from one of the MtF members here.....

"There are some vile people at Susan's, I didn't know people talked to others like what I received yesterday via PMs. I responded with reason and they reported me? There's no making friends with these people, we won't even be seen as okay in their twisted minds, we shouldn't be alive in their view and that was expressed to me yesterday in a PM. The shocking thing was, I've felt this person was somewhat friendly to us. I can't help but imagine the evil these people's mindset is capable of if they had absolute power. I'd say they'd likely put us to death. I mean that in all honesty. That is who a good number of these people are IMO. People like you and I, we have a life, we have accomplishments, I'm not spending another second at Susan's, not even to "lurk". I don't want to even see any of that any longer. FA told me yesterday that Jaime's ban is for one month. I don't think she's returning, personally I hope she doesn't. I know you're trying to help some, and that's commendable. I think you do a good job of it. But I'm sure I don't have to tell you, even some of the 'better' ones aren't what they seem, and there's nothing anyone can do to change that."

Yeah, but that little bit that was quoted from whomever further proves my point. You don't really know someone when all you have to go by is text. I've had a couple of whiners claim that I'm a  horrible, evil person just because I told them how I really felt about their whining.

Look...I don't put up with whiny crybabies on the net or in person. If someone argues with me over and over in an attempt to strong-arm me into going with their way of thinking, that will just make me fight back that much more.

Is it stubborn? You bet it is. But at least I own up to that fact.

Does that make me a "horrible and evil person"? Hell no, it doesn't.

It just comes down to a lot of people that have this "my way or the highway" mentality and it's pathetic. I've disagreed with people many times. But there has also been just as many times when I felt that even though I didn't agree with what they said, I could respect their opinion because they had the right to that AND it wasn't hurting anyone in the process.

Some people on here act as if there is a disagreement with them, it is tantamount to committing a capital offense. It's absurd.

Quote from: Shantel on March 16, 2014, 02:03:22 PM
I'm not spending another second at Susan's, not even to "lurk" .

Auntie Shan please don't leave! More of us love you than don't here. Please reconsider this, please? :(
I love to read your post's and replies to others post's. If all of the great one's leave this will turn into the wild west and there will be no place for people hurting to turn to. Please stay!!  :)

Well, not knowing all the specifics, I do have to say what was said in the defending pm was quite insulting as well.  It seems like two sides love to straw man each other and paint the devil everywhere..  Reading that pm, I see how I'm viewed by certain members regardless of my words and actions.  All because I don't see eye to eye or fit into their group.  That's the sad thing.  Doesn't make it right for them to be insulted either nor do I think anyone deserves such treatment.  But again the reaction is to cast stones at everyone else.  I'm tired of guilt by association and all the crap that comes from both sides of these debates.  And yeah all that other pm does is prove that bigotry is a two way street. 

I don't know what the latest turmoil is all about, so I won't comment on that.  But the bottom line is - you can't please all of the people all of the time.  People will disagree.  You can't control the manner in which they disagree. You can't make everyone happy. There's a lot of drama and whining on Susan's.  But you have that on almost every trans forum.  Someone saying 'I'm leaving and I'm not coming back' - that's drama.  The people who say that 'always' come back.  It's like a child on a school playground.  If people would cut back on the drama and whining and put forth an effort to act like an adult, this would be a better place for everyone.

Quote from: Shantel on March 16, 2014, 02:15:13 PM
No we don't need personal attacks, I'm not particularly religious but do have spiritual beliefs that contrast with your own, and I've never made any negative comments or attacked you. That's how mature civil people conduct themselves.

Kia Ora Shan,

That's true...However, sadly it would seem personal attacks are the nature of the beast when it comes to political and religious discussions...One has just to look through the political forum at the two opposing sides comments "Tit for tat - snide remarks - point scoring...

Mature, civil people would in my opinion just agree to disagree and not antagonise one and other....

Metta Anatta :)

Quote from: Shantel on March 16, 2014, 12:24:46 PM
I was going to post this in what made me unhappy but then it would get buried and few would even notice it and since it has to do with all of us I decided to post it here. Over the last few weeks I've gotten PM's from people I know and generally like here who have been getting outrageously mean spirited hate notes from others who disagree with their political, religious, or their personal views on gender or sexuality. I encouraged them to report it to the administrator and they usually refused and took the high road and instead and have dropped their membership and left. I've been a member of Susan's off and on over the years ever since Susan created this website albeit under different names throughout my phases of transition, and I've never seen so much ugliness as exists here now. It's a real shame that this happens here and you can be assured that I will work to see you gone if you continue to act so childishly toward others.

Hummm....letters or messages of any kind, insulting or praising, should not be taking too personally...

Now, I have know a bully or two who "run-out-of-dodge" one to many good girls, and guess what... said bully just got his/her "can kick"... Like my Papi used to say... every dog has to eat his "S&%# sandwich someday.

I, in a heated moment, have had posted "hateful thing," and the Mods appropriately enough have given me a "do better talk." Now, being that I am very smart... I realized I have done wrong, so, I apologized to the offended parties, and moved on...

So, we all may need a bit of more tolerance and maturity, right?

Quote from: Shantel on March 16, 2014, 02:03:22 PM
Regardless of how you feel about someone or their beliefs there is no room for this kind of incivility especially if you decry the hatred by the world at large for what they perceive as weirdness and then become a hypocrite yourself, come on we can all do better. Got this from one of the MtF members here.....

"There are some vile people at Susan's, I didn't know people talked to others like what I received yesterday via PMs. I responded with reason and they reported me? There's no making friends with these people, we won't even be seen as okay in their twisted minds, we shouldn't be alive in their view and that was expressed to me yesterday in a PM. The shocking thing was, I've felt this person was somewhat friendly to us. I can't help but imagine the evil these people's mindset is capable of if they had absolute power. I'd say they'd likely put us to death. I mean that in all honesty. That is who a good number of these people are IMO. People like you and I, we have a life, we have accomplishments, I'm not spending another second at Susan's, not even to "lurk". I don't want to even see any of that any longer. FA told me yesterday that Jaime's ban is for one month. I don't think she's returning, personally I hope she doesn't. I know you're trying to help some, and that's commendable. I think you do a good job of it. But I'm sure I don't have to tell you, even some of the 'better' ones aren't what they seem, and there's nothing anyone can do to change that."

Well, as far as Jamie goes, she is technically banned for a month. However, there is a lot more to this and it doesn't have anything to do with any disagreements on the forum. I'm only even acknowledging the ban in public because she said it was okay to do so. Jamie is one of ours, one of our best. But like all of us, has her moments. Most of our long term members have been banned at one time or another. I have. I don't think Cindy will mind if I mention that she has. Jamie is going through a difficult time and needs her friends. Jamie is one of the most loved people here. She will be back, so please be here for her when she does. If you love Jamie, stick around and support her. She needs it.

I hate to be so candid, but I think I must. Jamie suffered some very severe blows during her time as mod. If you know Jamie, you know this is a very passionate individual. During Jamie's time as mod, they did a lot for our youth here. Jamie's main fault is getting too involved. Thinking of her own teenage and young adult children, Jamie did everything she could to reach out and mentor our youth here. Jamie is like a mother hen sheltering her young under her wings and angrily pecking at anyone that gets near. This is Jamie.

One of the young people Jamie tried so much to help became angry with her, threatened suicide and left the forum. Jamie was left scouring obituaries in the young person's city, looking for them. This took a toll on Jamie more than I can say. She sent me videos where she was just sobbing over this young person and the fear they took their life.

Eventually this young person came back to the forum. But the damage was done. Suicide is a big trigger for our Jamie. Our Jamie is in pain, has health problems, and needs us. Jamie is having problems and has become almost exasperating for me to deal with now. But Jamie has been a very good friend to me and I will never give up on her. Let's please all be there for her.

And please report any abusive pms to me. They are dealt with and if severe, the culprit loses their ability to pm. I will not have anyone abusing others by pm.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on March 16, 2014, 02:20:57 PM
Auntie Shan please don't leave! More of us love you than don't here. Please reconsider this, please? :(
I love to read your post's and replies to others post's. If all of the great one's leave this will turn into the wild west and there will be no place for people hurting to turn to. Please stay!!  :)

These weren't Shantel's sentiments. She was quoting.

I've been banned in the past back around 2005, having made a snarky remark about MtF's not having any mother instincts whatsoever there was a swarm of angry replies, and here's the teachable moment. If I hadn't reacted and allowed myself to be drawn into a completely insipid bitch-fest and took the liberty to insult everyone, all would have been fine in a day or two, but I succumbed to my instinct to put up a battle and all civility went out the window. Susan herself put her boot in my keister and it was well deserved. I hope we can all grow up and if we disagree with something, resist the temptation and just back away and visit a different thread for awhile and cool off. Count me with FA concerning our sister Jamie, she's a gem and I miss her wisdom and loving kindness here as well.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fv2%2Fxq90%2F23%2Fc4id.jpg&hash=e354db0cf46e44182ada7240c8e09dcc75895115) (https://imageshack.com/i/0nc4idj)

Quote from: Shantel on March 16, 2014, 03:10:29 PM
I've been banned in the past back around 2005, having made a snarky remark about MtF's not having any mother instincts whatsoever there was a swarm of angry replies, and here's the teachable moment. If I hadn't reacted and allowed myself to be drawn into a completely insipid bitch-fest and took the liberty to insult everyone, all would have been fine in a day or two, but I succumbed to my instinct to put up a battle and all civility went out the window. Susan herself put her boot in my keister and it was well deserved. I hope we can all grow up and if we disagree with something, resist the temptation and just back away and visit a different thread for awhile and cool off. Count me with FA concerning our sister Jamie, she's a gem and I miss her wisdom and loving kindness here as well.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fv2%2Fxq90%2F23%2Fc4id.jpg&hash=e354db0cf46e44182ada7240c8e09dcc75895115) (https://imageshack.com/i/0nc4idj)

I do see your point in this and it is important for us to learn from our mistakes. But is this really the right way to learn from them?
I would absolutely encourage everyone that receives any kind of hatemail to contact the staff here at Susans.

Quote from: 930310 on March 16, 2014, 03:36:34 PM
I do see your point in this and it is important for us to learn from our mistakes. But is this really the right way to learn from them?
I would absolutely encourage everyone that receives any kind of hatemail to contact the staff here at Susans.

Who gets to define what 'hate mail' really is?

Quote from: JordanBlue on March 16, 2014, 03:54:23 PM
Who gets to define what 'hate mail' really is?

I kinda think hate mail is self defining.   You can disagree respectfully, without tearing someone down or purposely attacking them or hurting them.  When you get hateful in your message, when you demean and attack and belittle and fill your message with spite, that's hate mail. 

Quote from: Colleen♡Callie on March 16, 2014, 03:59:41 PM
I kinda think hate mail is self defining.   You can disagree respectfully, without tearing someone down or purposely attacking them or hurting them.  When you get hateful in your message, when you demean and attack and belittle and fill your message with spite, that's hate mail.

I think it probably should be self defining, but here? I don't think so. 
People need to just accept the fact that that control the behavior of others.

It's not about controlling others and about showing respect and support on a support forum.

If you can't accept what the site is about, and behave accordingly, then disciplinary actions will be taken.  Those are the terms and rules you agreed to when you signed up here. 

The Cambridge dictionary definition for hate mail is: "Unpleasant or cruel letters from someone who dislikes you". So that's what I go by.

Quote from: Colleen♡Callie on March 16, 2014, 04:15:36 PM
It's not about controlling others and about showing respect and support on a support forum.

If you can't accept what the site is about, and behave accordingly, then disciplinary actions will be taken.  Those are the terms and rules you agreed to when you signed up here.

I don't really have a dog in this fight but...different people have different definitions of what 'showing respect' means.  you'll never get people to universally agree on one definition. getting people to take responsibility for their own actions, especially the younger ones here?   good luck with that one.

I've noticed that relations between trans people are getting a lot more heated and tense, not just here but on other sites. Now, I will admit, there are certain views on trans issues that actually make my blood boil (anyone who knows me will have an idea of what they are). But I don't go around and send hate mail to people. And I don't go around starting fights. Because the chance of me actually changing someone's mind is pretty small and all it does is increase problems.

Getting people to take responsibility isn't easy and that's why there are rules on this forum. If you can't live by them, then you shouldn't be here. And the rules are mostly about common decency and something that most people already know before coming here.

Quote from: 930310 on March 16, 2014, 04:26:45 PM
Getting people to take responsibility isn't easy and that's why there are rules on this forum. If you can't live by them, then you shouldn't be here. And the rules are mostly about common decency and something that most people already know before coming here.

You keep repeating yourself.  everyone here knows there is a TOS. 
Can't you see how effective it's been so far?

Quote from: 930310 on March 16, 2014, 04:16:00 PM
The Cambridge dictionary definition for hate mail is: "Unpleasant or cruel letters from someone who dislikes you". So that's what I go by.

A good definition.

Quote from: JordanBlue on March 16, 2014, 04:23:08 PM
I don't really have a dog in this fight but...different people have different definitions of what 'showing respect' means.  you'll never get people to universally agree on one definition. getting people to take responsibility for their own actions, especially the younger ones here?   good luck with that one.

That be why there are mods. 

Quote from: Colleen♡Callie on March 16, 2014, 04:30:38 PM
That be why there are mods.

Think about it.  If that was the answer, would we even be having this discussion in this thread?
No. 

And why wouldn't we be having this discussion? This isn't an Orwellian forum where every single thing you do is monitored by others. Of course things that aren't supposed to happen will happen and that's why there are questions like this being asked.

Quote from: JordanBlue on March 16, 2014, 02:29:24 PMThere's a lot of drama and whining on Susan's.  But you have that on almost every trans forum.  Someone saying 'I'm leaving and I'm not coming back' - that's drama.  The people who say that 'always' come back.

That seems true on any forum; not just trans ones. I think it's the nature of people online. "I'm taking my ball and going home!"

This thread is kind of timely for me. I recently got placed on ignore by two people in another forum (NOT Susan's). It all started with someone making statements that I thought were hurtful to men and disrespectful of women. I was quite offended and I said so. I have no doubt I could have been more tactful than I was but I'm not convinced more tact was necessarily called for. He was upset by some of the things I was saying, but the whole reason I said them was because he had already said things that upset me.

The whole thing just seemed chock full of hypocrisy. He was saying things like let's agree to disagree which was pretty much a thinly-veiled "let me preach sexist things from my soap box and just sit down and shut up about how you feel about that."

He was upset that I was calling him sexist and I was upset that he was being sexist. To be clear, I was addressing specific things he said. "Sexist" was his interpretation of my critique, but I'd say it wasn't a reach. That's how I feel. In the end, I was just trying to have a conversation about it. He ended up reporting me (resulted in the mods telling him he was advertising which wasn't allowed but they did nothing to me) and then ignoring me. Then someone else who took his side essentially called me a Nazi and put me on ignore as well.

If you bring up a controversial subject, it seems almost inevitable that it's going to get heated. People have strong feelings about some things and you can't really blame them for having strong words to express those feelings. I think it's as civil as it needs to be as long as it just involves communication and not violence or censorship.

However, that forum is more for debate whereas I see this forum as having a primary purpose of support first and foremost. I think that changes the dynamic of how the forum is moderated. I think people should be more tactful here than, for instance, on a forum with a purpose for discussing certain political subjects.

Quote from: 930310 on March 16, 2014, 04:39:20 PM
And why wouldn't we be having this discussion? This isn't an Orwellian forum where every single thing you do is monitored by others. Of course things that aren't supposed to happen will happen and that's why there are questions like this being asked.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhbnbm.com%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2Fwhatwehaveherecoolhandlukede2.jpg&hash=ea21dc8547beae58ff239d5bfae2040f29b765f4)

Quote from: JordanBlue on March 16, 2014, 04:45:22 PM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhbnbm.com%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2Fwhatwehaveherecoolhandlukede2.jpg&hash=ea21dc8547beae58ff239d5bfae2040f29b765f4)

Huh?

I firmly believe that if you don't have anything good to say to a person then leave it to yourself since your just hurting others with hurtful words and hate. as for me I haven't had any hateful pms yet but if I get any I simply wont write them back since I'm not gonna take that kind of abuse, I am a very nice person and would never say anything bad to anyone, actually ive had all positive feedback on here.

Quote from: JordanBlue on March 16, 2014, 04:35:00 PM
Think about it.  If that was the answer, would we even be having this discussion in this thread?
No. 

Better than what it seems like you're saying.

It's impossible to keep the peace so why even bother trying?  Let this forum just descend into hatred and vitriol, and not even try to keep it a helpful and supportive place.

But it does work.  You think the world isn't a better place because we have laws and jails and a police force to prevent and punish?  It is.  Yes, for some those laws aren't going to stop them from committing crime, but the laws and police effort do greatly reduce the rates of crime by both removing criminals from the public, and preventing those that might be tempted to commit one from actually doing so.

Mods work the same way.  They enforce the rules, remove those that refuse to follow, and keep the place a safe and supportive site.  Yes there will be those that just don't care and don't follow, and the mods handle them. 

Quote from: 930310 on March 16, 2014, 04:51:09 PM
Could you come with something a bit more constructive and actually belonging to this thread?

No.   If you wish to speak to me, use a PM.

Quote from: Colleen♡Callie on March 16, 2014, 04:49:15 PM
Better than what it seems like you're saying.

It's impossible to keep the peace so why even bother trying?  Let this forum just descend into hatred and vitriol, and not even try to keep it a helpful and supportive place.

But it does work.  You think the world isn't a better place because we have laws and jails and a police force to prevent and punish?  It is.  Yes, for some those laws aren't going to stop them from committing crime, but the laws and police effort do greatly reduce the rates of crime by both removing criminals from the public, and preventing those that might be tempted to commit one from actually doing so.

Mods work the same way.  They enforce the rules, remove those that refuse to follow, and keep the place a safe and supportive site.  Yes there will be those that just don't care and don't follow, and the mods handle them.

That's a good point.

A hate-pm?

We were discussing about why we were against hateful comments and PM:s and you just start using a bunch of memes.
That's exactly the behaviour I consider disrespectful.

hate pms shouldn't be tolerated on this website at all, I don't really understand why people could even be that mean, this is supposed to help people not degrade them or hurt them in anyway possible. I myself will defiantly contact a mod if I get any since its considered hateful, disrespectful and degradable to the person who is looking for help for what they are going through,

Quote from: 930310 on March 16, 2014, 04:57:32 PM
A hate-pm?

We were discussing about why we were against hateful comments and PM:s and you just start using a bunch of memes.
That's exactly the behaviour I consider disrespectful.

That's fine.  I consider YOU disrespectful toward me.  See? The door swings both ways.  This thread is a PRIME example of the problem. 

Sadly, even in a thread that is attempting to diminish arguing, it leads to more arguments.  I don't see why treating other people with respect on a support site is such a difficult concept.  Everyone makes mistakes and arguments can get the better of people, but the goal should be self improvement and admitting when we were at fault.  No one is perfect and both sides in the debates that led to this fiasco might desire to look at their own actions. I don't know why people can't mend relationships and stop unfairly judging them for not sharing your perspective.  No one should be seen as an "evil fascist that desires to oppress everyone here" nor should the other be considered a fool who lacks a college education that desires to put conservatives to death.  If neither side can see the errors of their ways or how they are being unfair to other people here, this will only continue in an endless cycle. 

Quote from: JordanBlue on March 16, 2014, 05:00:33 PM
That's fine.  I consider YOU disrespectful toward me.  See? The door swings both ways.  This thread is a PRIME example of the problem. 

I'm sorry, but it's not.  930310 has been nothing but respectful towards you, where you haven't exactly been the same back in my honest opinion.

Jordan, I've tried to be respectful towards you and I've tried to steer the conversation back to it's original purpose, but it seems like you aren't really interested in discussing this subject since you show an apparent lack of respect for the people that actually do want to have a meaningful dialogue here.

Quote from: Colleen♡Callie on March 16, 2014, 05:11:27 PM
Oh no, we get the point you're trying to force here. 

Manufacturing an argument to prove your point so you can call the first person to point out how disrespectful you're being as disrespectful themselves, doesn't prove your point at all.  And your posts here are becoming increasingly troll-like.  So this is where I stop feeding you and go about the rest of my day.

I agree with you Coleen. There's no reason to try reasoning with the unreasonable.

Quote from: 930310 on March 16, 2014, 05:07:04 PM
Jordan, I've tried to be respectful towards you and I've tried to steer the conversation back to it's original purpose, but it seems like you aren't really interested in discussing this subject since you show an apparent lack of respect for the people that actually do want to have a meaningful dialogue here.

That's your opinion.  Here's mine.
You show an apparent lack of respect for what everyone who disagrees with you posts.
What is your age?

Enough is enough.

This thread has degraded into attacks on each other.

Thread locked.

The thread has been locked. But as to the subject, please report hateful pms. You can remain anonymous. Maybe you will prevent someone else being targeted.

Shantel and anyone else please always report abusive pm's. The person sending them will be dealt with. Jordan has been smited with a firm warning for their posts here and elsewhere on the site. If she continues as she has I will ban her.