Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So, this is something I've been curious about for a while now. Obviously, HRT does different things for everyone, but what truth, if any, is there to the whole "use it or lose it" thing? From what I've read (anecdotal, not scientific), it seems like shrinkage/loss of function in the penis has more to do with atrophy or disuse than being a direct consequence of feminization itself. Is that a complete mischaracterization? I had always kind of thought those effects were "part of the deal", so to speak.

Basically, is it possible to transition and still have a sexually functional penis? Can you maintain size and such through "regular use"? I know it feels quite different (I started HRT and had to stop for the time being for a variety of reasons) and it's definitely not a make or break thing to me, but as a woman who's sexual interest is in other women it's something I think about. I'm kind of leery of a neovaginoplasty, even though I would kind of prefer it, as it seems to be at kind of a primitive stage technologically at this point(which is in no way a judgement on people who've had one) for me personally and I don't hate my penis all that much considering what it is. lol and some seem to be alright with it

also, first post, so forgive me if this is in the wrong place or anything

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Not sure what you mean. In some transgender women penile function is retained. But many don't want it. Many surgeons urge women to masturbate to keep brain networks intact and skin pliable. Is that what you mean?

I guess the long and short of what I was asking is does your penis inevitably shrink and lose the ability to become sufficiently erect for penetrative sex on HRT? Or is that down to personal maintenance?

Oh I think it is genetics, dose of HRT etc. YMMV seems to be the rule.

I'll just expand on that (no pun intended!)

Prior to surgery I couldn't get an erection after a few weeks of HRT. Some women maintain the ability for ever.

A warm welcome to Susan's Draculess

FWIW I found that once on HRT definitely things started to shrink up... but then again, I suppose, it may have been heading that way anyways... personally, as Cindy mentioned I am one of those that is very happy with the result.

Look forward to seeing you about the forum's

L Katy  :-*

It was gone in a matter of weeks. As Cindy said several factors go into it, but generally HRT will eventually cause that type of function loss. Hugs
Mariah

Mine never shrank. I never had erections except in the second or two before climax, so I tried to make the climax happen at least once a week. When my surgeon got a look at what I had she declared she had "plenty" to work with  ;)

I'm a happy non-op woman who still has function after 4+ years of hormones.. Yes, I've had some shrinkage, but not enough to be a concern. I suspect there is an element of truth to the 'use it or lose it' school of thought.

OK, let's take a look at this from a guy's perspective first, and I'll try not to be too vulgar.

In my experience, most guys want a bigger dick!  Even I looked into it a few times.  What I discovered was that the pumps and pills and exercises and frequent masturbation basically led to an artificially enhanced size.  Basically all you could do was stretch out what you had, say maybe 20-30%.  But you then had to MAINTAIN that size by frequently using it and/or exercising, pumping, whatever, or it would shrink back down to "normal" size again.  But you can't actually increase the amount of penile tissue present, only how far you can stretch it.

Now, with that being said, I imagine it goes the other way too.  With an increased LACK of use, it would probably shrink down a bit.  You're not losing any physical material, but you're losing the ability for it to stretch as far.

So in conclusion, "use it or lose it" is actually a pretty accurate description...

Quote from: Cindy on July 16, 2015, 04:05:06 AM
I'll just expand on that (no pun intended!)

ROFL :D :D :D

Quote from: Draculess on July 16, 2015, 03:49:54 AM
Basically, is it possible to transition and still have a sexually functional penis?

That's my case indeed.

* TMI WARNING *

I'm (Jesus realizing I need to count them) 6 years HRT (antiandrogen high dose + estrogen high dose) and I still retain the ability to get a full erection. On average I'd say I masturbate twice a month at the most. Even after years of being single (no sex) and mantaining this rate I was able to get erections. Now I'm not single, and doesn't take more than a couple of kisses/caresses from my boyfriend to get it "alive" again. Really quick indeed, can't help it.

Also I must say pre HRT I had a hell of a sex drive. It was not even funny.

Pre HRT: *very* high sex drive, "morning wood" everyday, normal ejaculation, involuntary erections.

Post HRT: very low sex drive, no "morning wood" anymore, no ejaculation, erections just triggered voluntarily by phyisical contact.

* END OF TMI WARNING * ;D

It's very much a random thing.

Other trans women in my support group lost the ability to achieve erections completely, while at the same time some report no loss in function whatsoever, they can still both get and maintain one with ease even after multiple years on hormones. (Almost all of them report an increase in sensitivity, though.)

In my personal experience, erections are a serious dysphoria issue for me, so I've settled into a pattern where I barely ever do anything sexual, and on the rare occasion that I do I've found a way to orgasm without reaching full erection, so I NEVER get fully erect anymore. And atrophy and loss of function has definitely happened as a result.

A few weeks ago, I had a full erection for the first time in 6 months or so after reading an internet article for some reason triggered a response, and dear God, OW!!!!! After all of those months of not being used, getting a full erection again was as painful as being stabbed in the crotch with a knife. I do not want that to ever happen again if I can avoid it.

It was a long slow process that got me to this point. Early in hormones, for the first 6 months or so, there was barely any change at all. Over the next 6 months sensitivity increased vastly which made it a lot more difficult. It wasn't until about the end of year 2 that I started getting to the point where erections were painful.

Well,

3 years hrt, one year post orhci and it still works.  It takes a little work to get back into full operation and I still have orgasms. 

Jen

11 years HRT, makes me uncomfortable thinking about it, but it haunted me till the end.

When I started HRT I was on a high dose of Premarin and my penis just wilted after a couple of weeks which suited me just fine.  After around 20 months though I started to have worrying side effects from my HRT (My eyesight started to fail among other things) so I ended up being roughly checked out by a bigotted, rude and impatient endo at the public hospital.  Much blood was draw for testing and my Premarin dose was cut down to a quarter of what it was.  I really would have liked to know what the result of all those blood tests was, but their attitude towards '->-bleeped-<-s' back then was poor to say the least and they told me virtually nothing (this was two decades ago by the way).

Inside of a week my erection painfully came back with a rush and a roar in the form of morning wood on waking and my flatmate at the time had to restrain me from cutting it off with the carving knife from the kitchen drawer.  My beard had suddenly woken up too and I had a face full of hideous black sticks poking out of my skin just to really help with pushing me over the edge.
Faced with the possibility of me seriously wanting to harm myself the endos at the hospital changed their cr@p attitude becoming almost sympathetic and my HRT dose was increased to around half of what I was on originally.  My penis wilted once more and my joy knew now bounds.  After my orchi a year later things just got better and the only thing that would have made me more happy was if it dropped off completely.

After all these years the skin on my penis has become quite delicate and fragile and splits very easily.  Dysphoria apart I wouldn't trust anybody whom I permitted to be intimate with me to touch it.  I have no interest in masturbation and besides after all these years the majority of the nerve endings have disappeared anyway so it's no more than a loose piece of skin I pee out of.

As Cindy has said though your experience may vary.

I heard from another girl after the initial period of T blockers and E, she complained she'd like her sex drive back. They changed her regiment and she was able to do it again. Those were progynova and finasteride combination if my records are right. So it is another kind of T blocker.

Ask the doc or do a good research in any case, because I don't care to keep the function so didn't do my own. The only reason I'd keep the package is if I still thought I might need to work in the sex industry* in the Netherlands. But other than that, I want it all just gone anyway.

* - moderation warn: prostitution is legal in the Netherlands

Quote from: Lady Smith on July 19, 2015, 12:11:22 AM
When I started HRT I was on a high dose of Premarin and my penis just wilted after a couple of weeks which suited me just fine.  After around 20 months though I started to have worrying side effects from my HRT (My eyesight started to fail among other things) so I ended up being roughly checked out by a bigotted, rude and impatient endo at the public hospital.  Much blood was draw for testing and my Premarin dose was cut down to a quarter of what it was.  I really would have liked to know what the result of all those blood tests was, but their attitude towards '->-bleeped-<-s' back then was poor to say the least and they told me virtually nothing (this was two decades ago by the way).

Inside of a week my erection painfully came back with a rush and a roar in the form of morning wood on waking and my flatmate at the time had to restrain me from cutting it off with the carving knife from the kitchen drawer.  My beard had suddenly woken up too and I had a face full of hideous black sticks poking out of my skin just to really help with pushing me over the edge.
Faced with the possibility of me seriously wanting to harm myself the endos at the hospital changed their cr@p attitude becoming almost sympathetic and my HRT dose was increased to around half of what I was on originally.  My penis wilted once more and my joy knew now bounds.  After my orchi a year later things just got better and the only thing that would have made me more happy was if it dropped off completely.

After all these years the skin on my penis has become quite delicate and fragile and splits very easily.  Dysphoria apart I wouldn't trust anybody whom I permitted to be intimate with me to touch it.  I have no interest in masturbation and besides after all these years the majority of the nerve endings have disappeared anyway so it's no more than a loose piece of skin I pee out of.

As Cindy has said though your experience may vary.

I had the same issue with splitting, every time a medical person, or first few times with electrolysis (until she just let me apply the swabs and creams). I was seriously concerned about it , going into srs. Hasn't been a problem, was also on premarin until it got taken off pbs

I have been told that skin splitting is a problem with Premarin, but I can't really confirm that with references to research literature.

I was very very small pre HRT and I have peronei's disease from damage. So erections pre-hrt was very painful, yet I had them several times a day. I had a very active sex drive pre-hrt, lets scale it to 100. I am 2 years in and my sex drive is a 1, erections are 2 or 3 times an IM cycle with much caressing and thought ( an O is much more intense). I do not get hard now, just hardish.

Mines completely dead

TMI Warning:

I am married and was having sex or masterbating several times a week prior to starting HRT.  Losing the involuntary wood was a wonderful thing....I felt like "it" no longer control my sex interest.  I erections within 3 to 4 weeks and was so very happy it was gone.  I would still masterbate, but started doing so differntly than before, as stimulating my breasts was so much more arousing than that stupid thing.  It quicky became just clear ejaculate, but it still happened. 

No unwanted probelms, then I stopped HRT over health concerns: I have gained a lot of weight, I sit all day at work and those two factors were raising high concerns about developing DVT and cancer.  Add that to the some other issues and I am now thinking I may never be able to transition without paying relationship costs I'm not sure I can handle.

All that said, I stopped HRT about 4-5 months ago.  Erections returned for several weeks but then disappeared again.  Ejaculate appears to look just as it did pre-HRT.  However, in the past two months, erections have become painful.  Like a stained muscle.  I was thinking it was abnormal, but I guess the inactivity has led to atrophy (since being off HRT, I may masterbate every other week, if then).   Not sure if this is normal considering my story or if I should be concerned.

nope, takes a helluva a lot too get me up. only stays up for a second literally. this was all after a day on low dose spiro. as of right now, its physically impossible for  e to get an erection voluntarily or involuntarily

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

On my normal dose and having it stuffed in my panties all the time, it's shrunk a bit and has curved from being pulled back a lot. Libido has decreased considerably, erections are possible but difficult to achieve and maintain, no spontaneous erections, and erection from visual stimulation is nothing more than a slight twitch. Semen is slightly yellow, clear, and sometimes watery.

But when I was off my t-blocker for a month (about a year and a quarter after starting HRT), most of that changed. My size mostly returned, libido went back up, spontaneous erections and morning wood returned, erections were stronger, ejaculation more forceful though semen consistency hadn't changed much, and I was more visually stimulated. Erections were painful for a week or two though. Even before that on the odd occasion when I got rather hard, it'd be painful. I really do think it's from lack of use. During that month, the pain decreased until it went away altogether and things were more or less back to pre-HRT standards. I've been back on my t-blocker for a few months and my libido has gradually nose-dived again and all of that. I don't masturbate too often, and when I do it's not always hard, but when I got hard recently it hurt again.

Basically, I don't think HRT itself really affects it much, but rather the huge decrease in testosterone can lead to deceased libido and leads to decreased use and that's where the changes occur. Only thing HRT probably changes is semen consistency.

Quote from: Draculess on July 16, 2015, 03:49:54 AM
So, this is something I've been curious about for a while now. Obviously, HRT does different things for everyone, but what truth, if any, is there to the whole "use it or lose it" thing? From what I've read (anecdotal, not scientific), it seems like shrinkage/loss of function in the penis has more to do with atrophy or disuse than being a direct consequence of feminization itself. Is that a complete mischaracterization? I had always kind of thought those effects were "part of the deal", so to speak.

Basically, is it possible to transition and still have a sexually functional penis? Can you maintain size and such through "regular use"? I know it feels quite different (I started HRT and had to stop for the time being for a variety of reasons) and it's definitely not a make or break thing to me, but as a woman who's sexual interest is in other women it's something I think about. I'm kind of leery of a neovaginoplasty, even though I would kind of prefer it, as it seems to be at kind of a primitive stage technologically at this point(which is in no way a judgement on people who've had one) for me personally and I don't hate my penis all that much considering what it is. lol and some seem to be alright with it

also, first post, so forgive me if this is in the wrong place or anything

Well, I didn't use mine for around two months, and didn't seem to lose any size. So, that's pretty cool -- and I've been on estrogen for months. I personally wouldn't worry too much about it. :)

Hello, 'use it or lose it' also applies to SRS, correct?  If the parts shrink there's less to work with?  I wanted good depth in order to experience intercourse with a 'wide range' of men.  Told that would depend on what I had left to work with.  Could be one of the many reasons I was allowed to undergo SRS well under 1 year on HRT.  In my opinion it did make a difference.  Very thankful I made it priority one.

Thank you,
Anne

Added Clarification: I was closely monitored by therapist and doctors leading up to SRS.  Had to meet many conditions to undergo expedited SRS.

I use to have an exceptionally high seux drive and a T count well over 1000. Prior to starring HRT I would masturbate 3 plus times a day. When I started HRT I lost interest in females but I did masturbate once a day and still do so. The size has become a little smaller and the erections and organs are different.

We are all different but there is a change in how I feel about sex but I still love it.

I had a much weirder issue...  I saw a lot of shrinkage fairly early on (though I was still able to function to some degree right up to the day of GRS), but when I had to go off estrogen for surgery, it *came back.* Within 2 weeks - I was off for 3 - the damned thing was back to its original size. Which did mean I had plenty of material, I guess, but that was still pretty obnoxious.

It didn't take long before I had decreased interest in sex. Not long after that, it had shrunk and actually became painful every time it came up. My interest has increased after about the 3rd month and has been going back up. The pain I experienced is gone. Either it adjusted to being smaller or its gotten bigger. I really don't want to know because I don't want to look at it or touch it.

Thanks for all the responses, guys! I feel welcome here and it's good to hear so many different perspectives on something that seems to be quite different for everyone.

I have also been doing research on this topic. Unfortunately for many of us the world is not just girl or boy. Like Draculess, in my perfect world I would like to be a girl with a functional penis. I am married and love my sex drive and having sex with my wife. She is ok with me presenting as a girl but also doesn't want our sex life to change. So where does this leave me? From what I have researched crossdressing and cosmetic surgery for breast and a more female face combined with laser hair treatment are my options. I would love to get all the benefits of HRT but I'm not willing to give up having sex with my wife. If there are other options any info would help. It sucks being stuck in the middle.

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Possibly try taking Estrogen without blocking Testosterone?

Quote from: KristinaM on July 29, 2015, 11:46:38 AM
Possibly try taking Estrogen without blocking Testosterone?

That would probably work but I don't recommend it. I tried that and turned into a huge bitch, was on edge all the time, and just didn't feel balanced at all.

Quote from: Ashey on July 29, 2015, 02:51:11 PM
That would probably work but I don't recommend it. I tried that and turned into a huge bitch, was on edge all the time, and just didn't feel balanced at all.

Phytos work on me in sense they provide emotional relief (read mood flattener and aggression remover) and have other 'benefits' like increased sense of smell. Except that thing down there is both numb and a painful bomb. That is why I wouldn't try real E without T blockers. If I had choice, that is. It is likely I'd gain access to some form of E but not T blockers...

Hi,

as I am rather new to this I have a question.

I myself am not on hormones (yet), but have a condition of very low T and therefor do not have any morning wood or unwanted erections. I can achieve a slight erection by direct Stimulation, however it does not last very Long.

Now when you look at porn Videos the transsexual starlets mostly sport erections that are double the size mine has ever been when I still had normal T and are very long lasting.

I am just curious how this is achieved - are they all taking Viagra in high amounts?

 Maybe Viagra... maybe cocaine maybe they cut their e off completely for a few weeks prior to shooting....(lol.....pun) You shouldn't compare yourself to professional porn stars. They are quite literally athletes. There's a reason they're in movies.

Quote from: transjoe on October 01, 2015, 03:01:27 AM
Hi,

as I am rather new to this I have a question.

I myself am not on hormones (yet), but have a condition of very low T and therefor do not have any morning wood or unwanted erections. I can achieve a slight erection by direct Stimulation, however it does not last very Long.

Now when you look at porn Videos the transsexual starlets mostly sport erections that are double the size mine has ever been when I still had normal T and are very long lasting.

I am just curious how this is achieved - are they all taking Viagra in high amounts?

I have 3 theories on this, 1 is what isabelle said. Second one and I know this one is true to some extent is just get surgeries boobs, shaping etc and lasers and don't have hrt at all. I know of one porn star that decided to transition and was raising money to have all the silicone shaping in her body removed because she had gone one HRT afterwards and it was causing serious problems.

and third hrt just doesnt affect erections in some people. Only thing that stopped it for me was srs.

So while I think some are trans girls doing porn to pay for transition or whatever, some are specifically built for it and are happy that way.

Yes, I too developed erectile dysfunction after SRS.

HRT definitely lowered my libido, shrank me a little bit, and reduced the intensity of my erections, but things stayed more or less functional. I could penetrate a partner vaginally but not anally (at least not without a lot of prep - lube, fingering to loosen, etc). I also stopped ejaculating after a while, my orgasms were dry. But they remained satisfying and good experiences.

As for the "use it or lose it" thing, I've never seen any scientific data to back that up, but logically, it sort of makes sense that the pelvic and penile muscles would become weaker from lack of use, but I'm not a doctor.

Quote from: Serenation on October 01, 2015, 06:01:02 AM
Only thing that stopped it for me was srs.

Quote from: Isabelle on October 01, 2015, 06:04:39 AM
Yes, I too developed erectile dysfunction after SRS.

This made me LOL, like for realz yo.   :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: