"Use it or lose it?"

[Draculess]

So, this is something I've been curious about for a while now. Obviously, HRT does different things for everyone, but what truth, if any, is there to the whole "use it or lose it" thing? From what I've read (anecdotal, not scientific), it seems like shrinkage/loss of function in the penis has more to do with atrophy or disuse than being a direct consequence of feminization itself. Is that a complete mischaracterization? I had always kind of thought those effects were "part of the deal", so to speak.

Basically, is it possible to transition and still have a sexually functional penis? Can you maintain size and such through "regular use"? I know it feels quite different (I started HRT and had to stop for the time being for a variety of reasons) and it's definitely not a make or break thing to me, but as a woman who's sexual interest is in other women it's something I think about. I'm kind of leery of a neovaginoplasty, even though I would kind of prefer it, as it seems to be at kind of a primitive stage technologically at this point(which is in no way a judgement on people who've had one) for me personally and I don't hate my penis all that much considering what it is. lol and some seem to be alright with it

also, first post, so forgive me if this is in the wrong place or anything

[Cindy]

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Not sure what you mean. In some transgender women penile function is retained. But many don't want it. Many surgeons urge women to masturbate to keep brain networks intact and skin pliable. Is that what you mean?

[Draculess]

I guess the long and short of what I was asking is does your penis inevitably shrink and lose the ability to become sufficiently erect for penetrative sex on HRT? Or is that down to personal maintenance?

[Cindy]

Oh I think it is genetics, dose of HRT etc. YMMV seems to be the rule.

[Cindy]

I'll just expand on that (no pun intended!)

Prior to surgery I couldn't get an erection after a few weeks of HRT. Some women maintain the ability for ever.

[katrinaw]

A warm welcome to Susan's Draculess

FWIW I found that once on HRT definitely things started to shrink up... but then again, I suppose, it may have been heading that way anyways... personally, as Cindy mentioned I am one of those that is very happy with the result.

Look forward to seeing you about the forum's

L Katy 

[Mariah]

It was gone in a matter of weeks. As Cindy said several factors go into it, but generally HRT will eventually cause that type of function loss. Hugs
Mariah

[suzifrommd]

Mine never shrank. I never had erections except in the second or two before climax, so I tried to make the climax happen at least once a week. When my surgeon got a look at what I had she declared she had "plenty" to work with 

[kelly_aus]

I'm a happy non-op woman who still has function after 4+ years of hormones.. Yes, I've had some shrinkage, but not enough to be a concern. I suspect there is an element of truth to the 'use it or lose it' school of thought.

[KristinaM]

OK, let's take a look at this from a guy's perspective first, and I'll try not to be too vulgar.

In my experience, most guys want a bigger dick!  Even I looked into it a few times.  What I discovered was that the pumps and pills and exercises and frequent masturbation basically led to an artificially enhanced size.  Basically all you could do was stretch out what you had, say maybe 20-30%.  But you then had to MAINTAIN that size by frequently using it and/or exercising, pumping, whatever, or it would shrink back down to "normal" size again.  But you can't actually increase the amount of penile tissue present, only how far you can stretch it.

Now, with that being said, I imagine it goes the other way too.  With an increased LACK of use, it would probably shrink down a bit.  You're not losing any physical material, but you're losing the ability for it to stretch as far.

So in conclusion, "use it or lose it" is actually a pretty accurate description...

[Wednesday]

I'll just expand on that (no pun intended!)

ROFL

Basically, is it possible to transition and still have a sexually functional penis?

That's my case indeed.

* TMI WARNING *

I'm (Jesus realizing I need to count them) 6 years HRT (antiandrogen high dose + estrogen high dose) and I still retain the ability to get a full erection. On average I'd say I masturbate twice a month at the most. Even after years of being single (no sex) and mantaining this rate I was able to get erections. Now I'm not single, and doesn't take more than a couple of kisses/caresses from my boyfriend to get it "alive" again. Really quick indeed, can't help it.

Also I must say pre HRT I had a hell of a sex drive. It was not even funny.

Pre HRT: *very* high sex drive, "morning wood" everyday, normal ejaculation, involuntary erections.

Post HRT: very low sex drive, no "morning wood" anymore, no ejaculation, erections just triggered voluntarily by phyisical contact.

* END OF TMI WARNING *

[Carrie Liz]

It's very much a random thing.

Other trans women in my support group lost the ability to achieve erections completely, while at the same time some report no loss in function whatsoever, they can still both get and maintain one with ease even after multiple years on hormones. (Almost all of them report an increase in sensitivity, though.)

In my personal experience, erections are a serious dysphoria issue for me, so I've settled into a pattern where I barely ever do anything sexual, and on the rare occasion that I do I've found a way to orgasm without reaching full erection, so I NEVER get fully erect anymore. And atrophy and loss of function has definitely happened as a result.

A few weeks ago, I had a full erection for the first time in 6 months or so after reading an internet article for some reason triggered a response, and dear God, OW!!!!! After all of those months of not being used, getting a full erection again was as painful as being stabbed in the crotch with a knife. I do not want that to ever happen again if I can avoid it.

It was a long slow process that got me to this point. Early in hormones, for the first 6 months or so, there was barely any change at all. Over the next 6 months sensitivity increased vastly which made it a lot more difficult. It wasn't until about the end of year 2 that I started getting to the point where erections were painful.

[JLT1]

Well,

3 years hrt, one year post orhci and it still works.  It takes a little work to get back into full operation and I still have orgasms. 

Jen

[Serenation]

11 years HRT, makes me uncomfortable thinking about it, but it haunted me till the end.

[Lady Smith]

When I started HRT I was on a high dose of Premarin and my penis just wilted after a couple of weeks which suited me just fine.  After around 20 months though I started to have worrying side effects from my HRT (My eyesight started to fail among other things) so I ended up being roughly checked out by a bigotted, rude and impatient endo at the public hospital.  Much blood was draw for testing and my Premarin dose was cut down to a quarter of what it was.  I really would have liked to know what the result of all those blood tests was, but their attitude towards 'trannies' back then was poor to say the least and they told me virtually nothing (this was two decades ago by the way).

Inside of a week my erection painfully came back with a rush and a roar in the form of morning wood on waking and my flatmate at the time had to restrain me from cutting it off with the carving knife from the kitchen drawer.  My beard had suddenly woken up too and I had a face full of hideous black sticks poking out of my skin just to really help with pushing me over the edge.
Faced with the possibility of me seriously wanting to harm myself the endos at the hospital changed their cr@p attitude becoming almost sympathetic and my HRT dose was increased to around half of what I was on originally.  My penis wilted once more and my joy knew now bounds.  After my orchi a year later things just got better and the only thing that would have made me more happy was if it dropped off completely.

After all these years the skin on my penis has become quite delicate and fragile and splits very easily.  Dysphoria apart I wouldn't trust anybody whom I permitted to be intimate with me to touch it.  I have no interest in masturbation and besides after all these years the majority of the nerve endings have disappeared anyway so it's no more than a loose piece of skin I pee out of.

As Cindy has said though your experience may vary.

[Martine A.]

I heard from another girl after the initial period of T blockers and E, she complained she'd like her sex drive back. They changed her regiment and she was able to do it again. Those were progynova and finasteride combination if my records are right. So it is another kind of T blocker.

Ask the doc or do a good research in any case, because I don't care to keep the function so didn't do my own. The only reason I'd keep the package is if I still thought I might need to work in the sex industry* in the Netherlands. But other than that, I want it all just gone anyway.

* - moderation warn: prostitution is legal in the Netherlands

[Serenation]

When I started HRT I was on a high dose of Premarin and my penis just wilted after a couple of weeks which suited me just fine.  After around 20 months though I started to have worrying side effects from my HRT (My eyesight started to fail among other things) so I ended up being roughly checked out by a bigotted, rude and impatient endo at the public hospital.  Much blood was draw for testing and my Premarin dose was cut down to a quarter of what it was.  I really would have liked to know what the result of all those blood tests was, but their attitude towards 'trannies' back then was poor to say the least and they told me virtually nothing (this was two decades ago by the way).

Inside of a week my erection painfully came back with a rush and a roar in the form of morning wood on waking and my flatmate at the time had to restrain me from cutting it off with the carving knife from the kitchen drawer.  My beard had suddenly woken up too and I had a face full of hideous black sticks poking out of my skin just to really help with pushing me over the edge.
Faced with the possibility of me seriously wanting to harm myself the endos at the hospital changed their cr@p attitude becoming almost sympathetic and my HRT dose was increased to around half of what I was on originally.  My penis wilted once more and my joy knew now bounds.  After my orchi a year later things just got better and the only thing that would have made me more happy was if it dropped off completely.

After all these years the skin on my penis has become quite delicate and fragile and splits very easily.  Dysphoria apart I wouldn't trust anybody whom I permitted to be intimate with me to touch it.  I have no interest in masturbation and besides after all these years the majority of the nerve endings have disappeared anyway so it's no more than a loose piece of skin I pee out of.

As Cindy has said though your experience may vary.

I had the same issue with splitting, every time a medical person, or first few times with electrolysis (until she just let me apply the swabs and creams). I was seriously concerned about it , going into srs. Hasn't been a problem, was also on premarin until it got taken off pbs

[Lady Smith]

I have been told that skin splitting is a problem with Premarin, but I can't really confirm that with references to research literature.

[Rachel]

I was very very small pre HRT and I have peronei's disease from damage. So erections pre-hrt was very painful, yet I had them several times a day. I had a very active sex drive pre-hrt, lets scale it to 100. I am 2 years in and my sex drive is a 1, erections are 2 or 3 times an IM cycle with much caressing and thought ( an O is much more intense). I do not get hard now, just hardish.

[Yenneffer]

Mines completely dead