Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello people.

I remember doing searches three years ago for the price of SRS and it was usually 10k or greater.
Now it seems anywhere between 7-9k.

Also, I was looking at the prices for FFS.  I came across a few links.

http://www.chet-plasticsurgery.com/price.html
http://www.mtfsurgery.com/surgery_ffs.php

Big difference in price.

And based off of these:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/pixieluvsall/PIC_0006.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/pixieluvsall/100_2816_1176775384.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/pixieluvsall/PIC_0002.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/pixieluvsall/curly.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/pixieluvsall/toniatlanta002.jpg

What kind of work could I get done?
I was thinking that forhead thingy.  Whatever it is, get rid of the forhead bumps.

FFS prices depends on what you get done
where you get it done and how many operations you get done
at the same time
Operations with a lot of competition are usually the least expensive
Rhino's can be had in Canada, US for less than $5000, Brow bossing removal coupled with brow lift $6000, together, you can get both done for about $10K.

The jaw operations I feel are overpriced, since they're less frequently done in the normal population, considering they're relatively simple for an experienced surgeon.

I feel O's reputation is way way overdone and is using is reputation as pioneer to jack prices. There's plenty of surgeons who do reconstructive surgery on GG's that have a similar level of skill to him.

Quote from: Keira on October 05, 2007, 08:10:30 PM

FFS prices depends on what you get done
where you get it done and how many operations you get done
at the same time
Operations with a lot of competition are usually the least expensive
Rhino's can be had in Canada, US for less than $5000, Brow bossing removal coupled with brow lift $6000, together, you can get both done for about $10K.

The jaw operations I feel are overpriced, since they're less frequently done in the normal population, considering they're relatively simple for an experienced surgeon.

I feel O's reputation is way way overdone and is using is reputation as pioneer to jack prices. There's plenty of surgeons who do reconstructive surgery on GG's that have a similar level of skill to him.

So, a nose job, jaw reduction, and brow thingy would probably be around 10k?

How does one determine a good surgeon?

Quote from: kalt on October 05, 2007, 06:50:56 PM
Hello people.

I remember doing searches three years ago for the price of SRS and it was usually 10k or greater.
Now it seems anywhere between 7-9k.

Are these quotes from Thai surgeons?  I'm afraid that the prices in the US and Canada are much more expensive than 7 or 9K.

Dr. Marci Bower's fees:

http://www.marcibowers.com/grs/surgery4.html


I paid $24,000 for my SRS and breast augmentation with Dr. Toby Meltzer last January.  His fees are set for $19,500 + for SRS (first stage only) in 2008.  If patients want a labiaplasty (construction of the labia minora), the fees for this procedure are about $5,000.  I believe that Dr. Brassard's fees are one thousand to two thousand dollars less than Dr. Bower's but in Canadian currency.  Both Dr. Brassard and Dr. Bowers perform the one stage vaginoplasty procedure.

As far as FFS, well, I understand that the procedures are very expensive ranging from $15,000 to $60,000 (with Dr. Ousterhout in San Francisco or Dr. Zukowski in Illinois) depending on the type of operation (s) that are needed.


You may find this link helpful:

http://beginninglife.com/FFS.htm

There are several places where you can get virtual FFS.  They usually give you an idea of what to expect (results and fees).  It may be something worth considering.

tink :icon_chick:

Kalt,

Join the FFS support group on Yahoo.

Thats where I started and got to meet (and talk) to many people, who had used many surgeons.

There are many photos (before and after), details of surgical procedures and price lists.

Looking at your photos, its not easy to tell, as you need the hair tied back, full face, side angles and 3/4 oblique.

Most FFS surgeons will give you a consultation via photos.

My FFS cost me $30,000 and that was in 2000.

Take care!

I would like to mention this
Dr. Speigel in Boston is rarely mentioned and should be.  Many consider him to have surpassed Dr. O and Dr. Z who has been having ongoing issues with Malpractice, and have better (ie more natural) results than both Z and O. 

He is also SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than both.  $3500 for a contouring and scalp advance, a little over $4000 for rhinoplasty, etc.  There is also Dr. Cardanes in Mexico and Dr. Leis in Philly (who also does SRS).  Also Kalt, you need very little work just from looking at your photo, if any.  Just grow your hair out again, don't mess with your jaw, its very feminine, and well...that is the most difficult things to recover from.


It USED to be just Dr. O and Dr. Z, however, I highly suggest you look elsewhere.  They were popular at one point, but now they are overpriced, and Speigel has surpassed both (a younger talented surgeon who uses both of their methods). 

SRS, again there are several more doctors doing this than years past in both Thailand and the US.  SRS in the US/Canada you will pay $15,000-$25,000 depending on the Doctor,  Thailand you will pay $7000-$9000.  FFS...stick to North America, but there are several doing the procedures now, its not just Dr. O and Dr. Z.    Those days are over. 

In Montreal, Brassard can do all the light FFS,
Rhino, scalp advance, browlift, type I brow bossing shave, burring mandibular angle and light chin work (burrring and implants, not sliding genioplasty).
Bensimon (in the same office) can do Type II-III, jaw cutting and the heavy chin work. He also does reconstructive work at a local hospital for GG's.

As I said. I think O is WAY WAY WAY overpriced.
All the techniques he does are not that difficult for an experienced surgeon.
The most difficult operation and the one with the where errors of mm can have big consequences is the Rhino, and I really don't like his rhino's and I would sugest going elsewhere for them. More people are unsatisfied about their rhino than any other plastic surgery even when the doctor did exactly what he was supposed to do, because how the nose heals makes it hard to predict exact results (especially if your not conservative). Overesection is one of the main problems (rebuilding a nose is much harder than making it smaller).

I had a brow bossing type I shave, brow lift and Rhino done by Brassard a year ago for 9700$ Canadian dollars (which now are worth MORE than US dollars, which is funny in a sense).

i dont need ffs but if i did, i'd go with either dr.o, dr.z, or dr.b.  since they have been known in the community for years.  this is the thing, when you are "messing" with your face, you want the best of the best, not some doctor on the other side of the world or someone who is not known.

Quote from: Katia on October 07, 2007, 07:10:29 AM... you want the best of the best, not some doctor on the other side of the world ...

"Some" doctor on the other side of the world is not necessarily inferior to an "American" doctor simply because he practices on the other side of the world. We have to be a bit careful how we express ourselves sometimes, remember the TS community is an international one.

Quote from: tarasita on October 07, 2007, 07:59:30 AM

Quote from: Katia on October 07, 2007, 07:10:29 AM... you want the best of the best, not some doctor on the other side of the world ...

"Some" doctor on the other side of the world is not necessarily inferior to an "American" doctor simply because he practices on the other side of the world. We have to be a bit careful how we express ourselves sometimes, remember the TS community is an international one.

i'm not sure what you mean by this. logically, there are a few fallacies in linking the two statements [ignoratio elenchi and false analogy].  plus, you inserted the word [inferior] which wasn't part of my initial statement.  i said [some].  i don't recall having mentioned the words [inferior] or [american].  tsk tsk tsk

Quotesome    (sm) KEY 

ADJECTIVE:

Being an unspecified number or quantity: Some people came into the room. Would you like some sugar?
Being a portion or an unspecified number or quantity of a whole or group: He likes some modern scupture but not all.
Being a considerable number or quantity: She has been directing films for some years now.
Unknown or unspecified by name: Some man called.
Logic Being part and perhaps all of a class.
Informal Remarkable: She is some skier.
PRONOUN:

An indefinite or unspecified number or portion: We took some of the books to the auction. See Usage Note at every.
An indefinite additional quantity: did the assigned work and then some.
ADVERB:

Approximately; about: Some 40 people attended the rally.
Informal Somewhat: some tired.

Hi Kalt

Thanks for letting me play around with your picture. Here are a few pictures compiled using Virtual Makeover. The only thing I have changed physically is the eyebrows. As you can see I have tried to stick to the curly hair look, except for 1, just to see how you look with straight hair. My personal favorite is the bottom right one.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg505.imageshack.us%2Fimg505%2F693%2Fkaltseriesln9.jpg&hash=13f66d61230f5019701d86b041ef1e5a83c1c1c0)

As per your request I'll se if I can give you a more "teenagie" look :)
Stay tuned!  :D

Quote from: tarasita on October 08, 2007, 08:53:39 AM
Hi Kalt

Thanks for letting me play around with your picture. Here are a few pictures compiled using Virtual Makeover. The only thing I have changed physically is the eyebrows. As you can see I have tried to stick to the curly hair look, except for 1, just to see how you look with straight hair. My personal favorite is the bottom right one.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg505.imageshack.us%2Fimg505%2F693%2Fkaltseriesln9.jpg&hash=13f66d61230f5019701d86b041ef1e5a83c1c1c0)

As per your request I'll se if I can give you a more "teenagie" look :)
Stay tuned!  :D

I look like an old lady...

-dies-

Hey Kalt,
First, welcome to Susan's, I hadn't had a chance to welcome you yet :)  I don't typically recommend commercial sites on here or anything, but I found this site on Susan's and it's pretty much widely accepted that it's a good site to go to see what you'd look like after FFS and the owner of the site gives you feedback on what you'd need. The site is http://www.virtualffs.co.uk and you basically take the pictures EXACTLY like she says and send them in. I think I got the 6 picture deal for like $90 or something. It gives you a pretty decent example of what you might look like after FFS.

Remember that you are young and hormones will have a pretty big impact on your appearance, don't discount that! Because you haven't had the huge burst of T yet, you'd probably be surprised by what hormones can do to your appearance. Take care, Meghan

Quote from: Amy T. on October 07, 2007, 04:21:22 AM
Dr. Speigel in Boston is rarely mentioned and should be.  Many consider him to have surpassed Dr. O and Dr. Z who has been having ongoing issues with Malpractice, and have better (ie more natural) results than both Z and O.

I've delved into the various FFS lists and stuff a bit, and you can pretty much find good and bad opinions for every doctor. And they each seem to have their particular talents and techniques which should be considered too. For example, I *believe* Dr. O and Spiegal can both remove bone, reshape it, and reset it in place... where Z I think only shaves it down in place, so he can only go so far. And yet, Z. people I've spoken with are usually *ecstatic* with their results.

~Kate~

You are right about Z, also for Z the recovery time is less.
Cardenas in Mexico also does the bone surgeries.  (I am not sure about Leis in Philly.)

Every doctor has a different technique and is better at different things.

Quote from: MeghanAndrews on October 08, 2007, 10:17:57 AM
Hey Kalt,
First, welcome to Susan's, I hadn't had a chance to welcome you yet :)  I don't typically recommend commercial sites on here or anything, but I found this site on Susan's and it's pretty much widely accepted that it's a good site to go to see what you'd look like after FFS and the owner of the site gives you feedback on what you'd need. The site is http://www.virtualffs.co.uk and you basically take the pictures EXACTLY like she says and send them in. I think I got the 6 picture deal for like $90 or something. It gives you a pretty decent example of what you might look like after FFS.

Remember that you are young and hormones will have a pretty big impact on your appearance, don't discount that! Because you haven't had the huge burst of T yet, you'd probably be surprised by what hormones can do to your appearance. Take care, Meghan

Woah... when exactly is this, "big burst of T" supposed to hit?
I mean, jeez, I'm pretty sure I've gotten all I'm going to get.

Quote from: kalt on October 08, 2007, 02:08:41 PM
Woah... when exactly is this, "big burst of T" supposed to hit?
I mean, jeez, I'm pretty sure I've gotten all I'm going to get.

I think you said you did HRT once before, so it's hard to say. But from what I've read (and it could be totally inaccurate for all I know), most changes (aside from breasts) occur during the first two years, with the effects gradually diminishing after that. You still keep changing for many years if not forever, but just at a slower and slower rate after those first two years.

Or so I read ;)

~Kate~

Oh Kate, I was talking about the boost of Testosterone, the second big boost between, from what I've seen in my research, like 26 and 28. Kalt, surely you are younger than that. My point, Kalt, was that the hormones, both male and female, do a lot to your appearance, but that you haven't gone through a second major wave of Testosterone yet so you have that going for you. And for the E (Estrogen), I agree 100% with Kate, that's what I've read also, first two years = big changes, then subtle after that.

Quote from: MeghanAndrews on October 09, 2007, 10:04:43 AM
Oh Kate, I was talking about the boost of Testosterone, the second big boost between, from what I've seen in my research, like 26 and 28. Kalt, surely you are younger than that. My point, Kalt, was that the hormones, both male and female, do a lot to your appearance, but that you haven't gone through a second major wave of Testosterone yet so you have that going for you. And for the E (Estrogen), I agree 100% with Kate, that's what I've read also, first two years = big changes, then subtle after that.

Thanks.  I'm glad to know that.
-sigh-
I think I had a wave of T already hit me.  I haven't changed much in the face or anything, but from a year and a half ago I've gone from 70 pounds to 140 pounds, granted I've been working out and all... still, I think I have a much denser skeleton now though.  I can only hope that I'll be able to drop down again, I might try going anorexic:-P

I had all my operations done at the same time with Dr. Ousterhout around five years ago.

Scalp advance
brow lift
Forehead reconstruction
Rhinoplasty
Cheek implants
Tracheal Shave
Chin recontouring (known as sliding genioplasty)
Top lip lengthening

It took me 12 hrs on the operating table.  Almost ten months to recover entirely.  My fees were over U$45,000 including air fares, hotel, room and board (I'm European) for three months following my FFS.  Definitely the best investment I've ever made.  Couldn't have transitioned without FFS.  I was horrid looking.

Quote from: Butterfly on October 09, 2007, 04:01:39 PM
I had all my operations done at the same time with Dr. Ousterhout around five years ago.

Scalp advance
brow lift
Forehead reconstruction
Rhinoplasty
Cheek implants
Tracheal Shave
Chin recontouring (known as sliding genioplasty)
Top lip lengthening

It took me 12 hrs on the operating table.  Almost ten months to recover entirely.  My fees were over U$45,000 including air fares, hotel, room and board (I'm European) for three months following my FFS.  Definitely the best investment I've ever made.  Couldn't have transitioned without FFS.  I was horrid looking.

Yeesh.
That's a lot of money.
Jeez, did you get all that on loan or did you just save up?
I mean, I'm a college kid>.>

Quote from: Amy T. on October 08, 2007, 12:10:25 PM
You are right about Z, also for Z the recovery time is less.
Cardenas in Mexico also does the bone surgeries.  (I am not sure about Leis in Philly.)
Every doctor has a different technique and is better at different things.

Talk to Kassandra.  She had the works with Dr. Z and is just now settling in.  I got to go to her pre-op visit with her.  He is a real charmer!

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Quote from: kalt on October 09, 2007, 07:36:51 PM

Quote from: Butterfly on October 09, 2007, 04:01:39 PM
I had all my operations done at the same time with Dr. Ousterhout around five years ago.

Scalp advance
brow lift
Forehead reconstruction
Rhinoplasty
Cheek implants
Tracheal Shave
Chin recontouring (known as sliding genioplasty)
Top lip lengthening

It took me 12 hrs on the operating table.  Almost ten months to recover entirely.  My fees were over U$45,000 including air fares, hotel, room and board (I'm European) for three months following my FFS.  Definitely the best investment I've ever made.  Couldn't have transitioned without FFS.  I was horrid looking.

Yeesh.
That's a lot of money.
Jeez, did you get all that on loan or did you just save up?
I mean, I'm a college kid>.>

I've came to the conclusion that it's going to take a lot of time as well as I am a college kid as well.  I have a fund for "trans" issues right now such a therapy, doctor visits, FFS, etc etc.  So far I have been lucky and my parents have paid for all the visits with exception to like 5 therapy visits.  I only have like ~15k in it right now, sadly enough, but if the time ever came for me to decide FFS or anything, I was probably going to end up taking a loan.  For the time being, just have to keep on saving.

Also it is important to know that FFS is performed only when HRT has "failed" to produce the feminization that was expected (usually after two years of HRT).  I have met plenty of people who thought they couldn't pass without FFS, and after two years on HRT, they really didn't need to have it, so yeah...

tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: Tink on October 09, 2007, 10:30:06 PM
Also it is important to know that FFS is performed only when HRT has "failed" to produce the feminization that was expected (usually after two years of HRT).  I have met plenty of people who thought they couldn't pass without FFS, and after two years on HRT, they really didn't need to have it, so yeah...

tink :icon_chick:

Yes, so I still technically have like a year and 10 months left :P 

Either way, I figured there was probably something I would want done eventually so I started saving years and years ago in hope that I would eventually come to this point.  Well, still not even close to there, but getting there slowly I guess.

Quote from: Tink on October 09, 2007, 10:30:06 PM
Also it is important to know that FFS is performed only when HRT has "failed" to produce the feminization that was expected (usually after two years of HRT).  I have met plenty of people who thought they couldn't pass without FFS, and after two years on HRT, they really didn't need to have it, so yeah...

tink :icon_chick:

Some degree of truth in the HRT does make an effect with fat redistribution and softening of the skin yes. But to say that FFS is only performed when HRT has "failed " is incorrect in general.

The majority of FFS when done as Maxillo Cranial Facial surgery, which involves altering the bone structure structure by shaving, removing or reducing the typical male markers (Square jaw, wider jaw, brow bossing, larger forehead).

There are fundemental differences bewteen Male and Female skull structures (Dr O on his web site has a great pictorial representation of this), which HRT will have no effect on, the older and longer you are exposed to the ravages of T.

Having a face like a Neanderthal Man will not be made feminine by HRT alone.

The chances of a higher level degree of feminization on HRT (of the face) improves the younger you start for sure and any plastic surgeon can undertake the soft tissue / muscle work (face lift, neck lift, Bletheroplasty etc), but you need that Maxillo Cranial surgeon to alter the bone structure.

XXX

Quote from: BCL on October 09, 2007, 10:51:09 PM

But to say that FFS is only performed when HRT has "failed " is incorrect in general.

Alas the

Quote" "

;)


tink :icon_chick:

Generally speaking if you need FFS you will know pretty early on and people will tell you very quickly. 
Also, do not expect the $45,000 Ousterhouse type prices of five years ago.  There are ALOT more surgeons doing this surgery skillfully, and prices have come down CONSIDERABLY.  Its no longer a unique plastic surgery, and several plastic surgeons perform these techniques now (I can list over a dozen worldwide). Ousterhouse is no longer unique, and I would even argue no longer in the top tier.  He is getting too old, spends to much time with operations, is making more mistakes, he is in his seventies, and honestly should retire at this point.

My advice is ignore the Ousterhouse prices, because he should not be the one you go to, as good as Ousterhouse was, there are about 6 surgeons in North America alone who have adopted his procedures and methods, and some like Speigel who have artfully adopted both his and Dr. Z's techniques.  Look into what the other surgeons are charging, Dr. O is no longer a good barometer in terms of skill or price.  You can now get the "works" by a very good surgeon for under 30k.  Falt though, you do not need that at all.

Quote from: kalt on October 09, 2007, 07:36:51 PM

Quote from: Butterfly on October 09, 2007, 04:01:39 PM
I had all my operations done at the same time with Dr. Ousterhout around five years ago.

Scalp advance
brow lift
Forehead reconstruction
Rhinoplasty
Cheek implants
Tracheal Shave
Chin recontouring (known as sliding genioplasty)
Top lip lengthening

It took me 12 hrs on the operating table.  Almost ten months to recover entirely.  My fees were over U$45,000 including air fares, hotel, room and board (I'm European) for three months following my FFS.  Definitely the best investment I've ever made.  Couldn't have transitioned without FFS.  I was horrid looking.

Yeesh.
That's a lot of money.
Jeez, did you get all that on loan or did you just save up?
I mean, I'm a college kid>.>

You can start saving now or go to different surgeons like some peeps have mentioned.  I, myself, had the money for it but still I see it as the greatest investment because it's opened many doors for me.

Quote from: Katia on October 07, 2007, 07:10:29 AM
i dont need ffs but if i did, i'd go with either dr.o, dr.z, or dr.b.  since they have been known in the community for years.  this is the thing, when you are "messing" with your face, you want the best of the best, not some doctor on the other side of the world or someone who is not known.

Wow awesome! .....I wouldn't need FFS if I looked like you Katia........

how much does a nose job and cheek augmentation thingy usually cost?

Posted on: October 13, 2007, 11:45:30 AM

---

Quote from: Suzie on October 13, 2007, 10:30:11 AM
And I am putting my money where my mouth is.  I will be visiting him shortly for a little, shall we say, credit card workout?  among other things...

Best of luck...
None of us wanna see you w/ bad credit:(

I used to think Id need a huge amount of FFS... but after HRT and some minor things <Like going through laser at the moment>, and a better diet when I can eat has done wonders....

Heres my "Scarry" Pic...  me when I was 19....  I thought Id need the jawline, scalp advance, My hair line had receeded 5 or 6 in on both sides of my head, brow bossing, trach shave and yeah...  pretty much the whole shabang...  Now look at me  :) <My avitar is really me, from back in march I believe>

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi4.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy146%2FLynn_E_R%2FJunk%2Fc849d424.jpg&hash=76339c1ac0693120cb46b783f5ba82f1eb181b1b)

I apologize everybody.  I was on vacation.  Here is the link for Dr. Marcelo DiMaggio (in Buenos Aires, Argentina) from Genderways:

http://www.hospitalbritanico.org.ar/sitio/esp/secciones/especialidades/cv.php?servID=10&medico=109


Press the [contacto] option to leave a message.  They speak English so you shouldnt have any problems communicating with them.  My roommate had the works with him.  She paid the equivalent of $11,000 US dollars.  She had gotten virtual FFSs from several US surgeons, but the prices were outrageous.  Dr. O. and Dr. Z gave her an estimate of almost $40,000 US dollars.  Big difference.  She is 3 months post op.  Doing wonderfully well and pretty, very pretty.  A miracle imho. :)

Quote from: Katia on October 07, 2007, 07:10:29 AM
i dont need ffs but if i did, i'd go with either dr.o, dr.z, or dr.b.  since they have been known in the community for years.  this is the thing, when you are "messing" with your face, you want the best of the best, not some doctor on the other side of the world or someone who is not known.

I spent 30k on my face and it was the best investment I ever made. People spend far more money on cars to improve their image and you are only seen in your car a few hours a day at most. Yes, I didn't want anyone but the best when my face is concerned.

Still, 30k is serious money and denial is pretty much free.

Posted on: October 17, 2007, 02:41:04 PM

---

Quote from: kalt on October 05, 2007, 11:05:21 PM

Quote from: Keira on October 05, 2007, 08:10:30 PM

FFS prices depends on what you get done
where you get it done and how many operations you get done
at the same time
Operations with a lot of competition are usually the least expensive
Rhino's can be had in Canada, US for less than $5000, Brow bossing removal coupled with brow lift $6000, together, you can get both done for about $10K.

The jaw operations I feel are overpriced, since they're less frequently done in the normal population, considering they're relatively simple for an experienced surgeon.

I feel O's reputation is way way overdone and is using is reputation as pioneer to jack prices. There's plenty of surgeons who do reconstructive surgery on GG's that have a similar level of skill to him.

So, a nose job, jaw reduction, and brow thingy would probably be around 10k?

How does one determine a good surgeon?

What I think you need, scalp advance, brow lift, forehead contour, rhino would run around 30K with Dr O, Dr O would probably say you need jaw work too. The jawline makes a dramatic difference, I had mine done afterwards and it made a big difference and my jaw wasn't "that bad" You can get a consultation with Dr O for $100 either in SF or at the different conventions. IMO DR O is the master and what he says you need, you need.

Posted on: October 17, 2007, 02:51:11 PM

---

Quote from: Butterfly on October 09, 2007, 04:01:39 PM
I had all my operations done at the same time with Dr. Ousterhout around five years ago.

Scalp advance
brow lift
Forehead reconstruction
Rhinoplasty
Cheek implants
Tracheal Shave
Chin recontouring (known as sliding genioplasty)
Top lip lengthening

It took me 12 hrs on the operating table.  Almost ten months to recover entirely.  My fees were over U$45,000 including air fares, hotel, room and board (I'm European) for three months following my FFS.  Definitely the best investment I've ever made.  Couldn't have transitioned without FFS.  I was horrid looking.

Really nice work, who did it? If you looked horrid before, whoever did that work should be credited with a great job. It doesn't look like Doug's work, it looks better! Even Doug can't make horrid men look pretty, that is not what he does.

On second thought people, just taking the time to look at myself in the mirror without judgement has shwon me what I knew years ago; My face hardly, in any way at all, displays manliness.  It might eb hansome, but it's as beautiful as it is handsome.  I might not be a Tyra Banks or a Peta Wilson, but I'm me.  So, the only operations I have to anticipate are some teeth stuff, SRS, boob thingy, and rib removal.

Quote from: Berliegh on October 10, 2007, 05:37:17 AM

Quote from: Katia on October 07, 2007, 07:10:29 AM
i dont need ffs but if i did, i'd go with either dr.o, dr.z, or dr.b.  since they have been known in the community for years.  this is the thing, when you are "messing" with your face, you want the best of the best, not some doctor on the other side of the world or someone who is not known.

Wow awesome! .....I wouldn't need FFS if I looked like you Katia........

thanks.  ya i don't need ffs, yet i need more blood to calm my hunger.  my poor arm is so bruised lately.. ::)

What I think you need, scalp advance, brow lift, forehead contour, rhino would run around 30K with Dr O, Dr O would probably say you need jaw work too. The jawline makes a dramatic difference, I had mine done afterwards and it made a big difference and my jaw wasn't "that bad" You can get a consultation with Dr O for $100 either in SF or at the different conventions. IMO DR O is the master and what he says you need, you need.

I completely dis agree with this.  Largely because as it stands Dr. O recommends EVERYTHING no matter who you are.  There are several surgeons now who know O's techniques and learned from O, who are VERY critical of O and how recommends everything and takes to long in surgery to boot.  Dr. O may at one point be the master, but at this point I would not recommend ANYBODY to go to him.  O is NOT the master, and I would not take his recommendations, and what he says you need, you may or may not need.  I personally will be staying a long way from Dr. O and his "you need this attitude".  I will be outright with the surgeon, I will go to for forehead work and a scalp advance, the minute you say I need ANYTHING I will walk out.  I know what I need...not you.  For all the stuff they can throw at me, there is ALOT of variation in the female skull (as well as the male skull). 

I have got down the opinion its not that I dislike FFS, I just hate Dr. O and the cult of O.  O's opinion of what you need is not necessarily the case.  I recommend going to Spegiel first or one of the other east coast "natural approach" surgeons first, they do not  go over the top like O.  They will recommend stuff, but not say its needed, differentiate between cosmetic and feminization, and don't keep you on the operating table for too long, and actually charge a reasonable amount (by the way they ARE reconstructive surgeons and do the boney work too).  Dr. O on the other hand recommends EVERYTHING for EVERYBODY, has overly long surgery and charges far to much.  Dr. O should be the last person you go to.   

The very fact Ousterhousian proportions has become a negative term in some trans circles is good sign of how RIGHTFULLY divisive O has become. 

Quote from: Amy T. on October 21, 2007, 06:21:15 PM

I completely dis agree with this.  Largely because as it stands Dr. O recommends EVERYTHING no matter who you are.  There are several surgeons now who know O's techniques and learned from O, who are VERY critical of O and how recommends everything and takes to long in surgery to boot.  Dr. O may at one point be the master, but at this point I would not recommend ANYBODY to go to him.  O is NOT the master, and I would not take his recommendations, and what he says you need, you may or may not need.  I personally will be staying a long way from Dr. O and his "you need this attitude".  I will be outright with the surgeon, I will go to for forehead work and a scalp advance, the minute you say I need ANYTHING I will walk out.  I know what I need...not you.  For all the stuff they can throw at me, there is ALOT of variation in the female skull (as well as the male skull).

I have got down the opinion its not that I dislike FFS, I just hate Dr. O and the cult of O.  O's opinion of what you need is not necessarily the case.  I recommend going to Spegiel first or one of the other east coast "natural approach" surgeons first, they do not  go over the top like O.  They will recommend stuff, but not say its needed, differentiate between cosmetic and feminization, and don't keep you on the operating table for too long, and actually charge a reasonable amount (by the way they ARE reconstructive surgeons and do the boney work too).  Dr. O on the other hand recommends EVERYTHING for EVERYBODY, has overly long surgery and charges far to much.  Dr. O should be the last person you go to.   

The very fact Ousterhousian proportions has become a negative term in some trans circles is good sign of how RIGHTFULLY divisive O has become. 

Well, he didn't recommend "EVERYTHING" with me.  I guess I must be extremely cute to begin with, but of course I knew that ;)  I've had consults with Dr Z and Dr O, and Z actually recommended more procedures than Dr O.  Stuff I knew I didn't need...he's big on soft tissue work.  As for Dr. O, I agreed with everything he said, I thought he was right on.

I'm not exactly sure why you are so angry with Dr. O, (the cap letters sort of give it away).  And as far as "Ousterhousian proportions has become a negative term in some trans circles..."  I'm curious what trans circles you are talking about?  I've never heard of this before.  I googled that phrase and some other spelling variations and never got a hit.  I'm aware of a couple people who weren't satisfied with their results and one person who went out of their way to slander him online.  But, by and large, the vast majority of testimony I've read have nothing but positive things to say about their results.  Frequently you see "best money I ever spent".  This man has helped hundreds of transwomen live a life they could have only hoped to have lived.

Did you even bother consulting with Speigel, or Leis, or one of the other 5 or 6 now doing boney surgery.  Or was this done years ago, when Z and O were the only ones out there?  Back when O was NOT taking naps and having several meals during surgery and taking HOURS less on each surgery.  Back when he was younger and in his prime and the best. Those days are over.  His surgery practices are putting his patients at risk, he really should retire.   
Alot of what is said on O is on private boards where you will not find anything regarding google searches, and tales of his malpractice in recent years is starting to get around.  For as many fans that he has, there is are people who are very critical, and its not a small number.  Once you find out the details of his problems in recent years, you will realize the criticism. 

Since you went to O, I will chalk you up to the Cult of O group.  Too blinded to really see his very real problems.  To unaware to realize his surgery times are twice as much as any other surgeon.  And honestly, somebody who did not know there are alot of great surgeons outside of O and Z doing boney FFS, who have fewer problems than either of them. 

As many as people THINK O and Z are it as far as FFS, that is no longer the case.  There is over a half dozen surgeons in North America doing similar surgeries at this point, all who are excellent, yet lack the cult like mentality of O. 

You only consulted with two...thus my critique.  People think its just Z and O, Maybe ten years ago that was the case, but that is no longer the case. 

These days he DOES recommend everything.  And you do not regular the private boards, which WILL NOT come up on a google search.  But O does have some of the worst instances of Malpractice...just ask trinity rose.

For every Trinity Rose there are 100's of very satisfied people. No human is perfect especially when dealing with people who are on hormones and in many cases drama queens.

Quote from: Amy T. on October 23, 2007, 10:46:45 AM
Did you even bother consulting with Speigel, or Leis, or one of the other 5 or 6 now doing boney surgery.  Or was this done years ago, when Z and O were the only ones out there?  Back when O was NOT taking naps and having several meals during surgery and taking HOURS less on each surgery.  Back when he was younger and in his prime and the best. Those days are over.  His surgery practices are putting his patients at risk, he really should retire.   
Alot of what is said on O is on private boards where you will not find anything regarding google searches, and tales of his malpractice in recent years is starting to get around.  For as many fans that he has, there is are people who are very critical, and its not a small number.  Once you find out the details of his problems in recent years, you will realize the criticism. 

Since you went to O, I will chalk you up to the Cult of O group.  Too blinded to really see his very real problems.  To unaware to realize his surgery times are twice as much as any other surgeon.  And honestly, somebody who did not know there are alot of great surgeons outside of O and Z doing boney FFS, who have fewer problems than either of them. 

As many as people THINK O and Z are it as far as FFS, that is no longer the case.  There is over a half dozen surgeons in North America doing similar surgeries at this point, all who are excellent, yet lack the cult like mentality of O. 

You only consulted with two...thus my critique.  People think its just Z and O, Maybe ten years ago that was the case, but that is no longer the case. 

These days he DOES recommend everything.  And you do not regular the private boards, which WILL NOT come up on a google search.  But O does have some of the worst instances of Malpractice...just ask trinity rose.

Hi Amy,

Actually my consult with Dr. Ousterhout was this summer.  And I do visit private boards as I am very interested in this topic, I just don't always post.  Do you have any evidence of malpractice besides Trinity Rose?  Also, I am very interested about these tales of taking naps and eating several meals, that is very interesting.  I've read Trinity's complaints, could you provide anything else besides her testimony?  Women going back for revisions and face-lifts are well-documented, but your specific complaints are not.

Sorry hon, I just question your authority.  You don't seem to have any.  I'm serious enough to have personally visited with more than one surgeon in different parts of the country.  Have you ever stepped foot into a FFS surgeon's office?







 

I am sticking to the east coast.  Dr. Z and Dr. O are going to be avoided completely.
The private boards, the message is clear...there is always a couple of people who know somebody who went to O who had problems.  As much as you may question my authority on this, thats fine.  But O is the subject of scrutiny, and I do not give YOU much credibility because you are part of his cult.
There used to be a site that was taken down that was posted by people who had problems with him.
By the way I have talked to Dr. Leis and Cardanes, and may see Dr. Speigel.  Have not decided entirely yet.  But my facial issues I know are minor, and I know what O would say, he would recommend the works. 
The nap and lunch thing is pretty well known in the field.  You do realize other surgeons do the same surgeries in half the time as O right?  How long were you under 10 hours, 14 hours? 

This is a well known thing in the profession.  O for all of his inovations, takes far too long and SHOULD retire.  He was practicing for 25 years before he started doing FFS and is now is in his seventies.  As much as experience matters in medicine, in surgery there is such a thing as too old, and O is getting too old.  Mistakes increase, problems become more frequent, and the time it takes to do a surgery increases significantly. 

Also the longer you are under the opperating table, the higher the risks.  It is surgeons who can do things effectively and quickly that are sought after.  Speigel performs very similar surgeries to O in 8  hours or less, even when its the works.  Fewer cases of problems too with Speigel.  Did you even see him, or was it just the typical thing of O and Z, because you know...that is all you thought was out there.  Which is a very typical mistake, and yes it is a mistake.

I could go on, but all O cultists are the same.  Pretty ignorant of all the problems the man has.  For everybody else...you were warned.  The man is getting older and should retire, he may be forced too...when somebody ends up in a body bag.

(PS From both that I have spoken too the same thing was said, for me its a hair issue, since I have no problems, so its best I wait a year to 18 months on HRT before seeking anything.  Anything else I do would be cosmetic.  Its not that I look great...just passing is not a huge deal.)

OK Amy, best of luck with your transition!

Suzie
-- self-appointed leader of the Dr O cultists  :laugh:

Quote from: Suzie on October 24, 2007, 07:36:51 PM
OK Amy, best of luck with your transition!

Suzie
-- self-appointed leader of the Dr O cultists  :laugh:

Another Dr O cultist here!

Posted on: November 13, 2007, 01:12:16 AM

---

Quote from: Amy T. on October 24, 2007, 01:52:54 AM
  But my facial issues I know are minor, and I know what O would say, he would recommend the works. 

Of course, because that is most likely what you know deep down you need. I know a lot of girls (me included) who Doug doesn't recommend "the works."

I am glad I stopped living in denial and saw to it to get what I needed.

Taking breaks during surgeries is pretty irresponsible.
But having a surgeon who's been doing this since before many of us were born has its benefits too.

What I'm trying to say is, there's always a good side and a bad side!

Quote from: kalt on November 13, 2007, 08:14:16 AM
Taking breaks during surgeries is pretty irresponsible.
But having a surgeon who's been doing this since before many of us were born has its benefits too.

What I'm trying to say is, there's always a good side and a bad side!

There is aways some working on the patient. Doing stitches or other things. It is a team of professionals. For a doctor to take a break or eat is common while the others work especially in a 10 hour procedure.

All surgeons who are able to do facial reconstruction of GG's who had car crashes (which is a very hard job, because nerves and bones are all messed up) are able to do a great job on us. There are plenty of those.

So, I don't get why people think O's has some magical skills ? It defies logic. There's plenty of surgeon with similar or better skills and esthetics.

Quote from: Keira on November 15, 2007, 03:54:43 PM
All surgeons who are able to do facial reconstruction of GG's who had car crashes (which is a very hard job, because nerves and bones are all messed up) are able to do a great job on us. There are plenty of those.

So, I don't get why people think O's has some magical skills ? It defies logic. There's plenty of surgeon with similar or better skills and esthetics.

Anyone can do a nose job, etc.  For some of the heavier work, I might consider a specialist, but alot of the lesser FFS procedures can be done by anyone.  There are lists online of non-FFS plastic surgeons that have worked well with TSs in the past.

An old roommate of mine (also MtF) got her nose done locally and it looked amazing and was a fraction of what an FFS surgeon would have charged.