Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi all

Just after a bit of help really as I'm new to all this. I've got a lot to learn and go through but if I'm going to do this, I'm the sort of person that wants to be the best that I can be. 

The reason I'm saying this is part of my job as a driving instructor is watching people and I've started noticing things about how ladies drive that men don't do, hence my thoughts that if I could replicate these it would make me appear more feminine. The two that I have noticed are that ladies tend to drive with both knees in contact with each other (very hard as a man to replicate) and ladies for some reason tend to drive with their elbows down at there sides.

Can anybody add extras. Doesn't have to be the same situations but things that only ladies do?


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Where else could elbows go when driving other than at your sides.  Any other place would seem to be anatomically very uncomfortable if both hands are on the wheel.


Sapere Aude

if your holding th steering wheel correctly, U.K. Anyway, your arms should be out reached on the wheel with a slight bend in the elbows, not arms straight down with elbows tucked in and forearms at a right angle to the body. 

Sorry for being so precise. But it's who I am lol

That's why I thought I'd ask this question has anyone else seen or noticed things that I could do to promote my feminine side?


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Quote from: Spookie on January 27, 2016, 04:02:23 PM
if your holding th steering wheel correctly, U.K. Anyway, your arms should be out reached on the wheel with a slight bend in the elbows, not arms straight down with elbows tucked in and forearms at a right angle to the body. 

Sorry for being so precise. But it's who I am lol

That may be anatomic and ergonomic, rather than a mannerism.  Women tend to have shorter legs than men, and therefore have their seat farther forward to reach the pedals.  That puts the torso closer to the wheel, therefore the elbows are lower.

I wonder if that's partially due to shorter legs requiring the seat to be pulled closer to the wheel?

My normal driving position is with my hands in my lap at the 5 and 7 o'clock position on the wheel with my upper arms and elbows tucked into my side.  It's not what our driving manuals teach but rather something I learned in an evasive driving course to provide maximum control of the wheel during violent maneuvers.  I'm not expecting that here but it's also a very relaxed and comfortable driving position.


Sapere Aude

What I'm actually looking at though is, are there any characteristics that I could use that could feminise  who I am, without having to wait for dr/therapists and hormones

As an instructor I assume you would already know and be teaching people correct driving positions.

I. Do,  but I can only comment about the rights and wrongs here,  different countries have different regulations

The only consistent mannerisms I have noticed is the way you cross your legs.  Other than that men and women both are all over the map and other than exaggerated stereotypes sit, gesture, etc. pretty similarly.

Some specific things are obvious in specific clothing like heels and dresses but largely absent in flat shoes and slacks.


Sapere Aude

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk or start any trouble, but in the greater scheme of things why does any of this even matter to us?

I think this is so silly. If we have to teach and constantly remind ourselves to sit, act and/or talk a certain way, doesn't this defeat the purpose of simply being ourselves?

Anyway, its really hard just being ourselves but even harder to be artificial....at least in my opinion it is.

Quote from: King Phoenix on January 27, 2016, 06:29:07 PM
I'm not trying to sound like a jerk or start any trouble, but in the greater scheme of things why does any of this even matter to us?

I think this is so silly. If we have to teach and constantly remind ourselves to sit, act and/or talk a certain way, doesn't this defeat the purpose of simply being ourselves?

Anyway, its really hard just being ourselves but even harder to be artificial....at least in my opinion it is.

I agree with you.  For me, I decided last year I wasn't going to make any efforts to act in any way that didn't just come naturally and comfortably.  I already spent a lifetime watching my every move to be sure it fit within certain narrow definitions.  And how well did that work out!  I'm done with all the acting.  It's time just to be myself for the first time since I was 13.


Sapere Aude

I'm not saying it would be easy though....

I just think that it makes more sense to be who we are than to be things people say we are or should be. Its never easy because humanity loves to scrutinize things, including other people. That's why we post threads like this. We really want to be accepted. What better way to be accepted than to look "normal?"

Quote from: Spookie on January 27, 2016, 03:08:01 PM
. . . I've started noticing things about how ladies drive that men don't do, hence my thoughts that if I could replicate these it would make me appear more feminine. . . .

Can anybody add extras. Doesn't have to be the same situations but things that only ladies do?

Honestly the only thing I've noticed that's different about the way women drive is that women stop and ask for directions when they're lost.  Men just drive on, hoping they'll get there somehow, even without knowing where they are going.

Quote from: itsApril on January 27, 2016, 08:11:30 PM
Honestly the only thing I've noticed that's different about the way women drive is that women stop and ask for directions when they're lost.  Men just drive on, hoping they'll get there somehow, even without knowing where they are going.

I used to ask for directions before GPS and Siri came into my life   :laugh:

I must admit. I hate sat navs. I never get lost though, I just take detours


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The site is open to people to explore their gender identity however they chose, if learning mannerisms makes them feel better about themselves then it's perfectly valid for them to ask.

To answer your question Spookie there are many subtle and not so subtle differences between the postures, body language and mannerisms of men and women. I would recommend spending some time in a public place just casually observing the way women move and interact as a useful starting point. Keep in mind the spectrum is wide, women sometimes do things that are generally regarded to be masculine and vice versa.

The other thing is not to take on a mannerism just because someone else is doing it, it has to feel right and natural to you otherwise it won't look very normal. For me, once I was presenting as female, I just found myself more able to move in a way I had been holding myself back from all my life. It comes more easily than you expect once you are no longer pretending to be a gender you are not.

I totally agree with Grace.

As an aside last time I got lost with another female friend who was using Siri to navigate, she asked where are we, and Siri replied 'You are lost.' Useful that.

Yeah.. I understand what grace is saying, what makes it right for 1 person, doesn't make it right for everyone, it just seemed like an interesting topic though. I think I should have made the thread title "are there really any differences between masculinity and femininity?" Though

And don't you just hate it when technology gives up lol


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Things like this tend to be interconnected, from a young age society tries to tell girls to not stand out, dont take up too much space, be unassuming, exc. This is just more of that, even in a situation where a woman is in control (such as driving) Most women will instantly sit and move in a way that keeps them from taking up space. This is not genetic but rather learned behavior from years of being told to sit up straight, clean up after yourself, dont talk back, smile, dont act too forward or strong you might upset the boys.

ok rant over, stupid sexisim, stupid society.

Serena

Just be yourself, people who try come off as flamboyant and unnatural to me. Over the years I spent a lot of energy covering up what people perceive as feminine, how I sit, talk, hold a glass etc.

After coming out to my wife, mother and sisters what I heard was rather eye opening. My wife said there were a number of times throughout the years that she thought "okay then" when seeing my posture sitting but never thought too much into it. My sisters said that explains why you always came off so awkward.

Because that is what it truly is, if you try to do something that is not natural to you, it comes off awkward to others and makes you stand out. But if you just be you, then you will fit in and people will not question it.

I still struggle with this though, so many years of covering up who I am, makes it difficult to just be me. I was laying in bed with my wife watching TV. and out of no where she says look at you and your little legs and instantly I went ridged into guy mode.

I can't explain what it was that I was doing with my legs that came off so feminine but what I can say is that it came because I was becoming comfortable being myself around my wife and years of suppression caused a knee jerk reaction to stop when someone took notice.

In other words, as you become more comfortable with you, you will find yourself but don't force it otherwise it will come off unnatural and awkward.

Personally. I'd rather be myself rather then cater to every female stereotype in existence. The critical goal of a trans person is to be your true self is it not?
So why try to act like someone you're not?
Sure, some cis/trans girls are super femme and that's perfectly okay.
But even some cis girls are quite the opposite. And they still lead happy lives as women.
Most of us likely fall somewhere inbetween. And even if you're not. That doesn't deprive us of being women.
Others can judge all they want. They're likely more miserable then one can even fathom. Hence why they spend time ripping on stereotypes.
Do what feels right to you.

Kindly,
Nymph:icon_chick:

Some of these posts have made me less anxious about being a female in terms of mannerisms. I was concerned I'd never carry myself or have mannerisms consistent with a female. It is quite a lot of pressure to put on oneself, and as has been said, there is a broad spectrum of cisgirls in how flamboyant or reserved they can be.

By recognising my dysphoria and being honest enough to myself, I believe it has already opened myself to allowing more feminity into my life. I, like many eventually felt overwhelmed with the stress of coming across as masculine. I suppose the scope of female mannerisms will just naturally find their own natural level and I like the idea of not putting any pressure in that aspect of my behaviour.

But in saying that, it is quite fascinating people watching and noticing mannerisms and interactions from an anthropology point of view but perhaps the key is not to have strong expectations of myself :)