Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Trump: Transgender bathrooms 'unbelievably expensive'

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/280995-trump-transgender-bathrooms-unbelievably-expensive

The Hill/ By Mark Hensch   05/23/2016

Donald Trump on Monday said building transgender restrooms nationwide would carry a high price tag.

""It would be unbelievably expensive nationwide," he told host Bill O'Reilly on Fox News's "The O'Reilly Factor." "It would be hundreds of billions of dollars. I think people would rather have us spending money on other things

Trump said his Trump Organization buildings nationwide typically lack bathroom facilities specifically for transgender individuals.
The GOP's presumptive presidential nominee said he believes in protecting transgender Americans from discrimination, however."

No more expensive than "Coloured Only" bathrooms, and we see what happened with those. Move along, folks, nothing to see here. We're just peeing.

Hugs, Devlyn

Another old thread but I can't resist to comment.

I think you folks are reading into Trump's comment the opposite as he meant. As a former conservative and current Libertarian, I get the impression he's very LGBT friendly

Trump let Kaitlin Jenner use the girls room. He's been talking about equal right for all. At a rally on 8/18/2016, there was someone up front with a big rainbow flag that they waved every now and then.

I think what he was getting at is gender neutral bathrooms are expensive. So, let's not build any but instead let people use the restroom of the gender they identify as/with.

  I get Trump's message. The difference from the "Coloreds" bathrooms of the early 1960's and earlier is that those bathrooms did not have government regulation attached to them besides the local health department, which was shoddy in most cases. The new Transgender restrooms are there by Federal law and are subject to new regulations that will up the cost of furnishing and up-keeping them as well as the nearby restrooms. Such as if you build onto an old room or structure that has 'grandfathered' codes in them, then you must upgrade the old part of that structure or room.

Joe

The last thing he said was to let the States decide.  If you live in a hostile State that doesn't help much.

It turns out that if we don't use solid gold plumbing and fixtures, that the bathrooms are actually not all that expensive.  Sometimes, we just have to lower our expectations a bit.

Quote from: Now Chloe on August 28, 2016, 10:23:38 PM
I think you folks are reading into Trump's comment the opposite as he meant. As a former conservative and current Libertarian, I get the impression he's very LGBT friendly

Trump let Kaitlin Jenner use the girls room. He's been talking about equal right for all. At a rally on 8/18/2016, there was someone up front with a big rainbow flag that they waved every now and then.

I think what he was getting at is gender neutral bathrooms are expensive. So, let's not build any but instead let people use the restroom of the gender they identify as/with.

I interpreted it as, "My party wants blah but I have no opinion on the matter so that I can dodge bullets from either side." The one that wins is the one he'll probably side with. And then, he throws down the occasional comment which doesn't give away his position to show that he cares about the situation.

We don't need expensive new construction of existing facilities.  Minor revisions will make most existing restrooms acceptable and satisfactory for everybody. New standards can be used when building new facilities or making major renovations of existing facilities.

He appears to be willing to let the practice evolve as it will without federal government intervention.

Women are currently able to use the men's public restrooms if they so desire. Why can't it be the same for men in the women's public restrooms?

http://www.anthonyseymourbrowne.com/unisex-bathrooms.html (http://www.anthonyseymourbrowne.com/unisex-bathrooms.html)

Pence is Vice President.  Sessions will be Attorney General, New Supreme Court Justices will vote in accordance with conservative evangelicals.   Trump's Chief Strategist is Bannon.

The majority of States have been trying to shut down all TG accommodation already.  Now the Federal Government will support them when challenged. 

There is nothing good for us here.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

Not to mention they've stated support for FADA. Which enables health care providers and businesses to discriminate against us.

Quote from: Deborah on November 24, 2016, 12:00:30 PM
Pence is Vice President.  Sessions will be Attorney General, New Supreme Court Justices will vote in accordance with conservative evangelicals.   Trump's Chief Strategist is Bannon.

The majority of States have been trying to shut down all TG accommodation already.  Now the Federal Government will support them when challenged. 

There is nothing good for us here.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

Be patient and remain hopeful. It is going to be better than think now.

Quote from: mac1 on November 24, 2016, 02:35:30 PM
Be patient and remain hopeful. It is going to better than think now.

I sure hope so.  I just remember the county chair of my former party telling me about the camps she wanted to open.  Probably not to teach us macrame or basket weaving...

Quote from: Michelle_P on November 24, 2016, 03:06:25 PM
I sure hope so.  I just remember the county chair of my former party telling me about the camps she wanted to open.  Probably not to teach us macrame or basket weaving...

That will never happen.

Not only would they be expensive, but they would be pointless. Nobody would use them.

Mod Edit - No Bashing or ridiculing is against TOS 5.

 :police:

Okay folks. Lets keep it civil and not bash or ridicule anyone or any party. Please Keep in mind TOS 5, 10 and 15. Thanks
Mariah

Quote from: mac1 on November 24, 2016, 03:10:21 PM
That will never happen.

Why would it never happen?  It has happened in many places before and it happened here in the USA with the removal of Japanese Americans to internment camps 74 years ago.

So yes, it could very easily happen if the politicians want it.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

Quote from: Deborah on November 24, 2016, 03:40:50 PM
Why would it never happen?  It has happened in many places before and it happened here in the USA with the removal of Japanese Americans to internment camps 74 years ago.

So yes, it could very easily happen if the politicians want it.
.........................

A lot has changed since then.

Human nature has not changed and we now have an administration soon to take office that has publicly stated the intent to flout international law by reconstituting torture and deliberately bombing non combatants.  So, are we just to have faith in their good will and respect for the rule of law?


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

There has been more than one president in my lifetime with whom I have been in total disagreement.  However, I have always trusted and wished then success for the good of the country.  Our democracy, freedom, and way of life are dependent on that.

Some have even demonstrated complete disrespect for the Constitution.

I'm with Deborah. They control the entire US government. Control of the supreme court was given to the winner of the presidency. Republicans held on to the Senate and the house. They have the means to change everything in our country. Much of that rests with the president because of how often Obama had to use the executive orders - Trump can undo all of our progress with his signature.

The means is more than there, and the motive is the "whitelash" that we have been hearing about. For 8 years these people had to watch as their disgusting agenda got stopped in its tracks, all of Bush's mistakes undone, and the country go in the right direction. This is exactly how the Southern Stratagey works. Poor whites get pissed off when minorities like blacks, women, and LGBT make advances and become socially equal to men and WASPs. They're desperately looking to make an adjustment to fix all of the good that has been done in order to reclaim white male supremacy in society.

Quote from: mac1 on November 24, 2016, 04:08:10 PM
There has been more than one president in my lifetime with whom I have been in total disagreement.  However, I have always trusted and wished then success for the good of the country.  Our democracy, freedom, and way of life are dependent on that.

Some have even demonstrated complete disrespect for the Constitution.

I'm fine with that! Parts of the constitution infringe on an inalienable right to life (according to the Declaration of Independence). Particularly the second amendment which is being used to promote the gun violence epidemic which leads to the deaths of over 30,000 of your fellow countrymen every year - all in the name of firearm industry profits.

The Constitution is far from perfect.

Also if you value your personal freedom and way of life, I'd recommend not trusting or hoping for success of camps or those who champion them.

If the Republicans actually respected the constitution they would immediately shut down these freedom of religion bills that seek to give one specific religion a privileged position under the law.  But they are not shutting down that effort are they?

They only respect the constitution insofar as they can twist it to their own ends.

Camps are unlikely because the majority of Americans do not support the Republican agenda.  But they are not impossible given the current political climate and the positions of those that are now in charge.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

This thread has gone very much off-topic and will be locked if it doesn't get back on-topic.

Geez, how much does a sign cost?  $5?  Maybe less in quantity?
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fichef.bbci.co.uk%2Fnews%2F660%2Fcpsprodpb%2F47E2%2Fproduction%2F_90920481_bb093c51-b018-4e0e-ac17-8dd563ef4037.jpg&hash=1ff734ea137ecd3883b5d70790027bc1f1a43bab)

Cost isn't the issue anyway. 


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

Quote from: mac1 on November 24, 2016, 11:39:18 AM
We don't need expensive new construction of existing facilities.

  i really like your avatar.

  i can not help but think if i right now throw on a dress then go use a womens public restroom, i would not blame a "ciswoman" if she fears for her life. i look in the mirror and see nothing resembling a woman. however i can see at some point in my life, myself not comfortable to use a mens public restroom. if it means every business to add a third restroom to meet code compliance then so be it.

I will continue to live my life as I have done for the last decade. I'm not worried about what laws are passed. NO ONE will stop me from living my life. NO ONE!

Why would we need another bathroom? I use the women's restroom. I used to use the men's. I have enough translation stuff to worry about, I don't need a transition bathroom.
And if you do, isn't that what family bathrooms are for?

Quote from: StevieC9 on November 26, 2016, 03:54:21 AM
Why would we need another bathroom?

  i am not saying what the and or if there needs to be a solution. when i see this i think there needs to be one. i do not care what it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU3m9bgQqyk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU3m9bgQqyk)

What did people do...............?
Before public restrooms?
Before indoor bathrooms?
Before the outhouse?

What is so different and secretive about those basic bodily functions?

Separation exists only among some human societies.

Why is separation even necessary?

Separate will never be equal.

Quote from: mac1 on November 26, 2016, 10:57:12 AM
What did people do...............?
Before public restrooms?
Before indoor bathrooms?
Before the outhouse?

What is so different and secretive about those basic bodily functions?

Separation exists only among some human societies.

Why is separation even necessary?

Separate will never be equal.

They're an odd outgrowth of Western European culture and Victorian paternalism.  For a long time, women in that culture were expected to remain at home, and any public restrooms that existed (a chamberbox behind a door, really) were used exclusively by men when out and about.  With the coming of the industrial age and development of factories, women were employed outside the home in large numbers, and the Victorians decided that in order to protect the fairer sex in their factories that separate facilities should be built.

The separation was made formal in Massachusetts in 1887 with the passage of the first laws mandating separate facilities.  With that precedent, we've been legislating bathrooms ever since!

Quote from: Michelle_P on November 26, 2016, 03:47:55 PM
.............................
The separation was made formal in Massachusetts in 1887 with the passage of the first laws mandating separate facilities.  With that precedent, we've been legislating bathrooms ever since!

Politicians could spend their time to better good by legislating on more important matters.

Most restrooms for small business are single rooms or maybe two. Define them as unisex and put a lock on it. Problem solved. Larger corporations? Take their ability to give large bonuses to CEO's and divert to unisex restrooms. The thirty K per restroom will still leave the CEO $1.2 million for a bonus. If we have enough money to shut the government down for a week to the tune of $25 billion, without conscience. Why not

What did people do...............?
Before public restrooms?
Before indoor bathrooms?
Before the outhouse?

In days of old, when knights were bold and toilets weren't invented, They would drop their load, along the road and walk away contented

Unless they were single occupant restrooms, I would never use them. Been sexually assaulted once and I don't plan on letting a situation occur again that would allow that to happen. It's better to allow people access to the restroom that matches the gender they identify with then making special bathrooms regardless of the cost. I agree it doesn't cost that much to do and frankly if they truly wanted to do it the cost wouldn't matter anyways. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: DawnOday on November 26, 2016, 05:22:12 PM
Most restrooms for small business are single rooms or maybe two. Define them as unisex and put a lock on it. Problem solved. Larger corporations? Take their ability to give large bonuses to CEO's and divert to unisex restrooms. The thirty K per restroom will still leave the CEO $1.2 million for a bonus. If we have enough money to shut the government down for a week to the tune of $25 billion, without conscience. Why not

Quite honestly, Transgender bathrooms is a stupid idea ( In my opinion ) that states the person is a different Sex from the rest even though they aren't .....  in my store we have Male and female single restrooms, you can bet your A** that if I have to go then I'm going i don't care what restroom i use .... It's not like I spend a lot of time in there anyways just do my business wash my hands and I'm out .... I can understand those that are talking concerns of more public bathrooms however my thought on that is if a Male has his sex changed and thinks as a female ( in most part ) and had the entire sex change then that is safe to use the female restroom in public area without females worrying about being attacked by a male.  ( Just my Thoughts on the subject ) .....   :)

Analone, Are you suggesting that we should have to require surgery to use the ladies room?

Because that would put a huge number of transwomen in a dangerous situation where they would be forced to use the men's room. Many transwomen never even get bottom surgery.

Lets remember to be respectful and polite please, thank you :police:

Quote from: analone1966 on December 13, 2016, 08:50:05 AM
Quite honestly, Transgender bathrooms is a stupid idea ( In my opinion ) that states the person is a different Sex from the rest even though they aren't .....  in my store we have Male and female single restrooms, you can bet your A** that if I have to go then I'm going i don't care what restroom i use .... It's not like I spend a lot of time in there anyways just do my business wash my hands and I'm out .... I can understand those that are talking concerns of more public bathrooms however my thought on that is if a Male has his sex changed and thinks as a female ( in most part ) and had the entire sex change then that is safe to use the female restroom in public area without females worrying about being attacked by a male.  ( Just my Thoughts on the subject ) .....   :)

bzzzzzzz...

Quote from: CatBlack on December 13, 2016, 11:15:46 AM
Analone, Are you suggesting that we should have to require surgery to use the ladies room?

Because that would put a huge number of transwomen in a dangerous situation where they would be forced to use the men's room. Many transwomen never even get bottom surgery.

DING!

Analone, using genitals as a guideline is the absolute worst option. Presentation comes in a close second worst option. The only reasonable solution is for people to use the bathroom they're comfortable in, and to not worry about where other people are going to the bathroom. You may have meant no harm, but your comments are terribly transphobic. I am disappointed to see someone within the community making these suggestions.

Hugs, Devlyn

Exactly, so spot on with this. So many times I was self conscious going in before SRS and it was all because of what was down below, but no matter what I used the bathroom I was comfortable in. The last time I used the men's I knew I didn't belong in there. It didn't feel right so I stopped using it. it was slightly before being full time. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 14, 2016, 10:19:52 AM
The only reasonable solution is for people to use the bathroom they're comfortable in, and to not worry about where other people are going to the bathroom.

"There has been more than one president in my lifetime with whom I have been in total disagreement.  However, I have always trusted and wished then success for the good of the country.  Our democracy, freedom, and way of life are dependent on that.

Some have even demonstrated complete disrespect for the Constitution."

Blindly supporting someone who would ignore you're constitutional rights isn't patriotism in any good sense, it's one of the key elements of an authoritarian personality. Trump can already be measured in his actions, he has chosen several individuals for his cabinet that have founded their careers on anti women's rights, anti lgbt right's, and anti environmental legislation. Supporting someone whose actions will have a devastating effect on the country (and the world) isn't something to be proud of, and it doesn't make you a better American.

CatBlack we still owe him our support and the opportunity to see what he does.  His position. on many issues looks different than what we might have thought.

I think we owe our allegiance to the Constitution and to the country.  We don't owe it to a man, no matter what his position.  At least that's what I took an oath to 39 years ago.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

I support the Office of the President of the United States.  I reserve the right to criticize the person elected to that office, and to communicate that criticism with other persons, elected officials, and representatives, as part of my exercise of my First Amendment rights.  I am quite willing to give a person in that office a chance to do well, and will point out to them, other elected officials and representatives, any actions I see as putting their performance in that office or the safety of this country at risk, as part of the exercise of my First Amendment rights.

As part of my exercise of my First Amendment rights, I reserve the right to resist efforts to use various populist mechanisms to rally loyal supporters of the officeholder to coerce my silence or cooperation in violation of my Constitutional rights.

I firmly believe in the Constitution of the Unites States as a set of guiding principles for our republic.  I took an oath to that effect, to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic.  I take that oath seriously, as does Deborah.

I do not believe in honoring some 'Good Parts' version of the Constitution of the United States, ignoring the ideologically inconvenient bits.  I'm sorry that some persons find my exercise of my Constitutional rights to be "Sad, so sad."


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Why dont we do uni-sex bathrooms, then he wouldn't have to worry about it?

Quote from: mac1 on December 14, 2016, 09:07:05 PM
CatBlack we still owe him our support and the opportunity to see what he does.  His position. on many issues looks different than what we might have thought.

One would have to be devoid of sight, sound, feeling, awareness, education, compassion, empathy, and a real understanding of God's word. To ignore the words Trump has used along with his supporters during his speech's. When you are walking on railroad tracks and a train is bearing down on you. What do you do? Lay down and accept your fate. Or do you get out of the way and live to fight another day?  We should not be acceptive with what they want to hand out. We should only accept our God given right to equality if that makes one uneasy, that's their problem. Why make it mine.

Quote from: mac1 on November 26, 2016, 05:04:46 PM

Politicians could spend their time to better good by legislating on more important matters.
Funny how you arrived at your come to Jesus moment after eight years of obstructing every one of Obama's proposals. I know. It's do what I say, not, do as I do. Let's see. Currently, one state – North Carolina – has enacted this type of legislation. South Dakota's bill passed in both chambers, but was vetoed by the governor. Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Mississippi, New York, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, Washington and Wisconsin have also considered similar legislation this year.
A handful of states considered bathroom bills in 2015, including: Colorado, Florida, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, Texas and Wisconsin. None of these bills were enacted. Arizona also introduced a bathroom bill that failed to pass in 2013.

It does appear they have absolutely nothing else to legislate.

I still say that a workable solution would be multi-user unisex restrooms with private stalls and a common sink area. That would make everybody equal while proving for their privacy and safety.

Yeah I have been sexually assaulted so and do to how comfortable I feel as a result I wouldn't and couldn't use a bathroom like your proposing. I would wt myself first if necessary. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: mac1 on December 18, 2016, 09:57:29 AM
I still say that a workable solution would be multi-user unisex restrooms with private stalls and a common sink area. That would make everybody equal while proving for their privacy and safety.

Unisex restrooms in the USA are not a workable solution at all because the vast majority of people of both political persuasions would not accept it.  It's too far outside our cultural norms and doesn't really benefit anyone enough to make it an issue.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

Quote from: Deborah on December 18, 2016, 12:09:12 PM
Unisex restrooms in the USA are not a workable solution at all because the vast majority of people of both political persuasions would not accept it.  It's too far outside our cultural norms and doesn't really benefit anyone enough to make it an issue.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

I have seen where unisex restrooms and even showers are becoming common place on some college campuses.  The restrooms have been incorporated in a few other areas. It has to start somewhere.  People will gradually adjust to the concept.

Quote from: Deborah on December 14, 2016, 09:17:29 PM
I think we owe our allegiance to the Constitution and to the country.  We don't owe it to a man, no matter what his position.  At least that's what I took an oath to 39 years ago.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

the order of my allegiance is first and foremost to my beloved Lord Jesus and secondly due to the fact the I am an American Citizen goes the  Constitution which  seems quite reasonable given the pledge of allegiance . I'm leery of Trump , but as to the fact he hasn't done anything yet we'll see what happens . Worse case , he'll just follow in the steps of Nixon.

Quote from: mac1 on December 14, 2016, 09:07:05 PM
CatBlack we still owe him our support and the opportunity to see what he does.  His position. on many issues looks different than what we might have thought.

Let's wait and see , but if you were to only read the LGBTQ... news print they are in an 180 degrees pivot in comparison to the news outlets such as Fox news and others.As far as his positions , he is loading most if not all offices with anti LGBTQ... staff.

Quote from: stephaniec on December 18, 2016, 01:25:14 PM
Let's wait and see , but if you were to only read the LGBTQ... news print they are in an 180 degrees pivot in comparison to the news outlets such as Fox news and others.As far as his positions , he is loading most if not all offices with anti LGBTQ... staff.

He is picking successful people in their areas. Most are not politicians.  They will be sacrificing their income potential in order to serve the country.

Trump won the required electoral vote and without California he won the national popular vote.  He also won a substantial majority of the counties nationwide.  Without the electoral college system just a few large urban areas would control the election and most of the country would not have any influence.  We have had other recent elections where a large percent of the people have disagreed but reluctantly accepted the outcome without the recent negative activity.

I'll just say with God's guidance whoever steers the ship God's eternal light will shine and we will stay clear of any submerged rocks.

I think this topic has wandered off into the sunset.

Locked