Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Let me preface this with the fact that I love my wife and she is more supportive of me in my transition than anybody I know, but there are other things popping up that are causing some major issues, issues that I'm not sure the marriage can survive.

The issue is that she's straight, not even a hint of liking women. This was all discussed awhile ago and she repeatedly stated that it wasn't an issue, but it is. It's like we're not actually married when there are other people around. She expects us to behave as married at home, but outside of the home is a completely different story. There's no more holding hands, no affection at all including hugs, no couples pictures, no romantic dinners. Date nights can only happen at home with takeout. Calling her anything that indicates we're married is an instant argument, which is really difficult to avoid when that's how I refer to her at home. She gets upset if I use her actual name at home.

I'm not really sure what to do here. There doesn't seem to be an end to it in sight. This is the only major issue in the marriage though.

Its difficult for anyone to tell you whats the right or wrong thing to do unfortunately we all have to figure the answers out ourselves.
I'm faced with the same dilemma though.
I love my wife more than simple words can say but I know that she will never accept who I am, the only option that I have is to divorce her which breaks my heart. I carn't do this right now because she is going through too much at this time but when is the right time, from her perspective never.
I will leave my wife before I come out in a vain attempt to save her from even more pain than she has already been through.
You and your wife decided to stay together and to try and make it work which many people on this forum appear to have succeeded your wife however may be of the same opinion as my wife and simply may not be able to tolerate it.
It's a very tough decision and one which you both can only resolve.
Try and have a frank conversation, it may be that you just need to resolve some personnel issues or that there are too many to resolve.
It may mean that you will have to split and just have a friendship.
You've chosen your path she now needs to choose hers and you need to try and respect that even if it breaks your heart.
Good luck and my thoughts and heart goes out to you.

Yeah I guess you're right. I think I really just needed to feel like I was talking to someone other than her. This discussion builds walls between us and and of the family that still talks to me, none of them are still in the area, so she's basically the only person I can talk to.

Quote from: Emileeeee on July 10, 2016, 02:51:48 PM
She expects us to behave as married at home, but outside of the home is a completely different story. There's no more holding hands, no affection at all including hugs, no couples pictures, no romantic dinners.

That is how it was originally with my spouse... but over time that has changed, but it took years. We have been married 32 years, and I transitioned 19 years ago.

- karen

You're still all better off than me. Two years into transition, still living together, she calls me her best friend. But her other friends get hugs and pecks on the cheek. I get nothing. The day after our 35th anniversary she asked for a divorce,then followed up with "I don't want anything else to change, I just can't be married to you." How can I live with woman I love so much as just a friend? I won't say "more than life itself," because I obviously decided that in the other direction.

At least you're still married in private, tough as that no doubt is.

I guess I'll give it more time and see how it pans out. It's tough being married to your best friend and going from all that hope and happiness, to basically being friends with benefits while still being married on paper.

I'm with ya sister.. it's hard.  My wife is not my wife.  We can cuddle, she will kiss me hello/goodbye when nobody else can see, and is my best friend.  That said, she is not a lesbian, doesn't want to be one and I can't help but think we are headed to an inevitable breakup.  That would suck a lot and really hurt the kids.  We have been together over half of our lives.  Still, life is short and I want her to be happy.  I will try to keep us together at least one more year to see if we can make it or not but I do worry. 
If you read Jenny Boylan's stuff it sounds like she went though this too, but they came out of it okay years after transition.
Good luck honey and know that you are definitely not alone in this predicament. 

We haven't been together for nearly that long, but there are a few kids involved. I'll give it another year or two and see if things get better. I have my doubts though. The idea of a straight woman with a lesbian didn't sound so bad at first, but thinking about it more rationally during transition, that's huge. Thanks for the input. Hope it works out for you as well.

Your situation is one of the most common problems I've heard from TG people over the years. There is no easy solution. Whether you stay together or part ways it will be very difficult.

While I have known of some marriages that well survived the husband becoming a crossdresser, a successful marriage between a straight woman and a fully transitioned transsexual must be quite rare. I'm sure they have happened, but I suppose it would no longer fit the usual description of a marriage. I'd like to hear from anyone on the forum who has such a situation and it is working well.

Quote from: Lyric on July 13, 2016, 10:44:42 AM
I'd like to hear from anyone on the forum who has such a situation and it is working well.

Me too

I wonder if there's resources among spouses of partners who came out as gay? Sometimes a gay person and a straight person will stay married to each other, but usually not. There are support groups for the spouses who often feel devastated that they didn't know/were lied to/start having self esteem issues around themselves as a woman/man.

Quote from: CrysC on July 10, 2016, 07:46:45 PM
I'm with ya sister.. it's hard.  My wife is not my wife.  We can cuddle, she will kiss me hello/goodbye when nobody else can see, and is my best friend.  That said, she is not a lesbian, doesn't want to be one and I can't help but think we are headed to an inevitable breakup.  That would suck a lot and really hurt the kids.  We have been together over half of our lives.  Still, life is short and I want her to be happy.  I will try to keep us together at least one more year to see if we can make it or not but I do worry. 

If you read Jenny Boylan's stuff it sounds like she went though this too, but they came out of it okay years after transition.

This is perhaps THE single fundamental issue that blocks any further progress that I contemplate. My spouse has come a long way with me, and have been very supportive/accepting of me pushing my boundaries (clothing choice, grooming, hair, going out, androgyny). Recently we discussed my upcoming retirement, and whether I would transition and in the same breath said that "she could not stay married to me, as she is not lesbian". *SIGH*

Joanna

Quote from: Jocee on August 09, 2016, 11:32:38 AM
This is perhaps THE single fundamental issue that blocks any further progress that I contemplate. My spouse has come a long way with me, and have been very supportive/accepting of me pushing my boundaries (clothing choice, grooming, hair, going out, androgyny). Recently we discussed my upcoming retirement, and whether I would transition and in the same breath said that "she could stay married to me", as she is not lesbian. *SIGH*

Joanna

For a few years I said that I would live in the middle.  I would remain male in presentation but go out on occasion as a woman.  I'd take hormones and feminize but still try to live as a male.  So this is what I did and I lived like that for 1.5 years.  It wasn't easy.  I was spotted as trans more than a few times and multiple people thought I was a girl no matter what I wore.  Of course I rather liked that but that didn't help things.

In the end that strategy didn't last.  After about a year and a half, my wife didn't want physical relations and that was probably when I fell off the proverbial cliff that I was standing at the top of.  Full transition became planned along with figuring out when to do notification and transition.  I can't really even remember when I went from trying to live in the middle to planning to go all the way.

Here's the thing though, I have never been so happy to exist since I transitioned.  The first couple of months were choppy but then I gained confidence, a voice and everything settled out. Now I've been living full time for a year and am about to have SRS.  We are still together but by the skin of our teeth.  I don't know if she can handle me post SRS.  The lack of the physical is a real pain in the neck but I love her.  Do I love her enough to stay with her without any physical intimacy?  What about post-SRS when I would like to be physical with somebody that could love me?  Male or female even.  Jenny Boylan said it was like buying a sports car and never driving it but keeping it in a garage. 

My plan is to try to be the best person I can to her and if she decides to break us up, it won't be for lack of trying on my part.  I do try to push the intimacy thing as something of a problem and for her that's a deal breaker.  My worst part of that is if she was single she would likely do far more with somebody she recently met than me now who she has been together with for over 20 years.  It makes me fell less of myself than I should. 

Anyhow, I agree with the SIGH

Quote from: CrysC on August 09, 2016, 04:02:30 PM
For a few years I said that I would live in the middle.

"Live in the middle"..... I like that analogy.That is precisely what I'm doing today..... *Double Sigh*

I'm also nervous about SRS, which I'm in the process of scheduling, not because I think it'll change things, but because she does. Time will tell I suppose.

QuoteFor a few years I said that I would live in the middle.

Yup.  I don't think I'll last a year.

We're in an unpleasant "don't ask, don't tell" state now, where I am not permitted to present as myself at home.  I have to inform my wife when I will be living for appointments where I will present properly, and when I return.  She goes to a back room in the house and closes the door while I move from the master bath and closet to the garage and my car.  On return I am to text her, and will be texted back when I may enter, after she has sequestered herself.

I've offered joint therapy sessions.  "No, I can't handle that yet."  I've offered basic information brochures. "No, I can't see that."  I have one sitting out on my desk.  She now refuses to enter the office.

I say "I love you" at night and get nothing back.

Oh, and she says she IS being supportive.

Yeah, maybe staying married isn't such a great idea.  I have therapy tomorrow.  My wife will be the topic of discussion as usual.  I don't know if I'll be coming home.

I think the relationship my wife and I have will survive my full transition and well into the future, to think anything less, for me, would set us up for failure.

I had a long conversation with my wife today about our future. We have not had sex for over 10 years and well before I dropped the final T-Bomb was the last time. So I asked her today how she sees our future and she remains adamant that she is not going anywhere and that our future is now bright . So I told her flat out that I can't live in a relationship without intimacy she feels exactly the same..phew!!!!. I don't care about the physical sex act but I still want to remain intimate. I miss the touching and the cuddling and the those lovely out of the blue kisses. She feels the same way so we are going to make more of an effort to be more intimate with each other. We talk about everything we share everything we no longer have secrets...we have a real future together. Going by the last 30 years the next 30 should be even better

I have had the SRS discussion and told her that yes I most likely would want to experiment after SRS but that I wouldn't because I was married and despite my changes I will honor my commitment because I love her. Having SRS is not about sex for me...I don't really care if I never have sex again....never could see what all the fuss is about. Don't get me wrong..its nice...but...Having the wrong equipment for so long has left me totally non-plussed about sex. Maybe I will feel different after SRS but at this stage, no sex required.

We talked for quite some time and I really do think we will be OK. It is not easy and will take plenty of compromise. We have been married many years and so far we have survived some very, very, tough times, both emotionally and financially. We are in good shape now. I know she is concerned about being labeled as a Lesbian but I said to her that in order to be in a lesbian relationship wouldn't we need to be having some kind of sex? So if we don't have sex does that we we are just a couple of old women sharing a house? Either way I think the only way out of this marriage for me is in a wooden box and you know what? That just sits fine with me.

Hugs Liz

PS My wife just walked into my "Girl Cave" and gave me a great big kiss, hug, intimate squeeze and told me she off to bed...First time she has done that in Months... :D :) :)

Quote from: ElizabethK on August 10, 2016, 07:10:30 AM
PS My wife just walked into my "Girl Cave" and gave me a great big kiss, hug, intimate squeeze and told me she off to bed...First time she has done that in Months... :D :) :)

I hope you quickly followed her :)

I'm happy for you Elizabeth. I hope that your future is just as you dream.

If it makes you feel better I'm in the same boat here. My relationship with my wife is very strained at the moment. I think the only reason she hasn't come right out and asked for a divorce is our kids.

Physically there is nothing going on between us. I think she finds my body repulsive. Our biggest fights have been whenever another transition milestone has been crossed. For example back in February when she came back from a trip and fully noticed how little facial hair I had left (after months of LHR). More recently the effects of HRT have been piling up and that is an issue.

Ultimately, she is not/cannot be attracted to a woman. I am not/cannot be a man. Something will eventually give.

Quote from: LucyNewport on August 10, 2016, 09:08:11 AM


Ultimately, she is not/cannot be attracted to a woman. I am not/cannot be a man. Something will eventually give.

I think this is a problem that for many couples and it is just too hard to get past. One of the things I think that has helped us is that I just don't care that much about sex. I gave up asking for sex well over 10 years ago, I never liked it much anyway so stopping was more of a relief than anything. So without the sex and the pressure to perform(for either of us) I think we just relaxed about it because it wasn't a big deal for either of us.

For many couples the wife or Husband just can't get past it. But imagine for a minute or two how you would feel if roles were reversed and it was your spouse /partner transitioning would you handle it any better?  For me I am not sure I would handle it as well as my wife has.

Liz

This has been a great discussion.   My wife and I have been working to stay together. A year and a half ago, I was halfway out the door.  A year ago, I was convinced we weren't going to last, but my wife was NOT letting us get divorced.  6 months, I was more willing to work on us. Now, things are better than ever.  Well, up until few days ago.  We're starting to fall into the same fights we used to.  She's back to reminding me of the things I did wrong in the past (anywhere from 6 months to 6 years!).  One day, she's encouraging me to "come all the way out" and or hide anything and the next she says everything is moving too fast.  It's frustrating and I'm trying to see it from her side, but when she accuses me of not caring about her feelings, it's hard.  It's like, all I do is consider your feelings. Doesn't mean I'm always going to do exactly what you want every time. 

It's funny that we have so many issues, but the trans issues are not that big compared to our other problems.


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It's actually not her that stopped the intimacy, but me. I just don't have a sex drive anymore and trying to do anything anyway results in an argument, so I don't even bother anymore. I'm sure that's a big part of our problems, but I don't think it's the biggest one.

I'm also tired of the arguments that get more and more frequent over time. It's like on the one hand she couldn't be more supportive of my transition and on the other hand, she's so afraid of it, she tries to block it from proceeding any further.

Like Emily, I've gotten bit by the "don't bother" bug as well.

I'd ask my spouse if she wanted to do something with me (walk, grocery store, check out the bookstore, grab lunch, etc), and she'd say no.  After a large enough number of "No" responses, with no positive feedback, we just tend to assume "No" as the default or only response and stop asking.  She eventually notices and accuses me of not wanting to do anything with her.

*SIGH*

Oh, and I sigh too much.  (Last night's complaint...)

Some days I just can't win.  But it's the only game in town, so I keep on playing.               

My wife would have never described herself as a lesbian or even bisexual. About the most she ever said is that she found some women attractive and maybe if she were on a desert island, she could make it work. Well i seemed to have made her set sail for that island.

Two yrs past the transition decision and through all the physical changes we have remained close. We plan the future together, parent, pursue business interests etc. I would not have thought that is was going to happen for us for sure, but like many i knew it was either transition or death spiral. There were lots of hard moments.

In public we are showing more affection but it went largely away for a time, and i knew it would take time. I'm a super affectionate person. Sex has continued pretty much uninterrupted but we have had to learn new things and ways to make that happen and enjoyable for both, and the amount of it is probably half, mainly i think because i just don't have the same drive as before.

We have no vow of monogamy in this relationship either and she could find a boyfriend at any point if she wanted to but, she has been saying for years the effect of " Why would i do that? - the reward would not be worth the headaches "

Since i am an overall happier person, we joke and laugh more than we ever did. She has noticed this and she recognizes other positive changes. She defends me and talks me up to everyone that.

This really does sound like I'm bragging as i write this, but i really want to encourage people to hang in there and not give up on someone you love, because of change. What comes out the other side can be better.

Hi,

I started transition March of 2012. I went full tome, with name change June 2014.  I recognize a lot of what we went through it this thread.  However...

We now hold hands in public.  She calls me her wife.  She steals my clothes, jewelry and I steal hers.  It's all good... It just took a long time and it was HARD for both of us.

She needed to know, in no uncertain terms, that I  loved her.  THAT meant more than my gender.

Hugs

Jen

...from my reading of this thread, it would be easy to deduce, there doesn't seem to be any way to make this work long term, unless both people are on the same page and committed to the transition as much as they are committed to the relationship ...

Just an observation

Liz

Quote from: JLT1 on August 11, 2016, 07:49:02 PM

She needed to know, in no uncertain terms, that I  loved her.  THAT meant more than my gender.

Jen,

That is very sweet and also very wise!

Quote from: ElizabethK on August 11, 2016, 08:15:20 PM
...from my reading of this thread, it would be easy to deduce, there doesn't seem to be any way to make this work long term, unless both people are on the same page and committed to the transition as much as they are committed to the relationship ...

Just an observation

Liz

Good observation but i'm not sure I agree. What i see is a commitment to the relationship that overrides the transition, and then often, realization that the transition was the best for their spouse. That is a huge demonstration of selflessness too.

I might be just having a semantics exercise in my head.

I lean to what Robyn said. 
Continued love and understanding by both parties is the path to staying together.  Obviously this is easier for some than others depending on how open minded the other person is.  Also for us who are transitioning, we need to find the balance between moving forward but not moving too fast. 

Lots of love is needed.  Good luck girls.  I hope we all can pull it off.

Quote from: RobynD on August 12, 2016, 01:53:55 PM



I might be just having a semantics exercise in my head.

:icon_chuckel: :icon_chuckel:

Liz

Fun thread. Not too sure what to make of it all beyond "The Human Condition"

My wife and I have been together, one way or another for nearly 40 years, officially married for almost 20, Living In Sin, for about 30. The first 10 was on/off, seeing others, non-exclusive, etc.. The 'Off' part came from me in search of being "Normal" with a woman far from that. An amazing person, full of love and life, a totally free spirit. In other words, my opposite. One I was attracted to before, during and after my 'Practice' marriage, as well as before, some during, and after, my almost marriage.

Like ANY couple, we have our.... moments. At the end of the day we both don't let things get carried away because it generally is over silly stuff, or things we both knew all to well what we were getting ourselves into many moons ago. While we try not to live in the past, we are human.

And I have heard a BIG earful 'Of the past', transgressions that is, after dropping the T-Bomb on her. Some days I still do. I cannot blame her. Decades ago I 'Settled' on being "Just a CD", which she knew of as well as my failed transition experiments. But having the T-Bomb dropped is not something she signed up for. Well, neither did I! I avoided dealing with my transness for decades.

But dealing with it has led to a lot of personal growth for me, and even some for a much more evolved her. Our love for each other is probably stronger then it ever has been. Today, she cannot think of me as her husband, not with boobs nicer then hers. I still occasionally hear "I did not marry a woman. I like how men make me feel....." As well as plenty of talk of some sort of a future together.

To get this free-spirited hippie chick who swore never again to get married there were conditions. One was a somewhat bitter yet simple one to agree to because we both put the others happiness on par or above our own. That provision was if the other other wanted out, no fighting, no arguing, we split as friends, if not even lovers. People grow, sometimes in different directions. Just the way life is.

The other condition hearkens back to our early years of non-exclusivity. In essence the open-marriage option. "Sex is sex"  This one was a also somewhat bitter for me, being a helpless romantic and having difficulty with having sex with someone who you are not in love with after being your BFF. TBH - My sex drive was FAR from that of a typical person, and I knew it.

Today there is a lot of talk dancing around this option. After dropping the T-Bomb an option for her. But today I see it was her way of projecting what was truly on her mind. That as I grow and learn what it is to be the real me, on and the years of HRT, I'd be the one wanting to experience being a woman sexually. At first, thanks to my betrayal, she had a lot of fear over me just "Walking Away" leaving her high and dry, without support or resources to fend for herself. Today she does not see that happening, only me continuing to grow as a woman. No doubt she has picked up on me often saying one guy or another is good looking, even very attractive. I haven't told her of the too arousing dreams I've had.

We have a good partnership. We compliment each other well relying on the strength of the other to shore up a weakness. We both learn from the other and grow as people. So far in generally the same direction. Yes, my life would be a lot different if we did split back when things were dicey. Just as it would be if we split today. Or tomorrow.

Will she want to live with a woman? Will I? Can we deal with it emotionally? Or, will the day come that I will go full-time, not that it matters at home?

Would our lives be better if we had split, or do? I guess we both answered with our feet by choosing to stay together, for now. Still, she asks for assurances I will see to her needs if we do. Living in separate states, or on the same street, or in the same home.

One day at a time

I think my marriage is in the same place. Super supportive SO, but she is not gay and doesn't want to be seen as such. We are holding on for now, but in the future...

I came out to myself, my wife, family, friends, and workplace six weeks ago. Three days ago our marriage disintegrated. I left, realizing my wife's verbal abuse was not going to stop.  She has been clear that she would not tolerate my body changing. Fortunately I have supportive friends and family.

Put yourself in her shoes and think what would you will be doing if its happen to you.its natural..she married you with a reason and every woman does the same.

I am divorced but not because of wanting to transition. I do think if we were still married and I approached her with this she would have divorced me due to that. Living together married is not the same as being married and having a relationship. I think it is the rare marriage that can survive a partner transitioning. But I do know that I am much happier being single than I ever was being married. I was married 15 years and we do not interfere in each others lives.

Heather

Quote from: sid104 on August 13, 2016, 10:52:41 AM
Put yourself in her shoes and think what would you will be doing if its happen to you.its natural..she married you with a reason and every woman does the same.

We discussed my transition before getting married, so she was well aware of what was coming.

Quote from: sid104 on August 13, 2016, 10:52:41 AM
Put yourself in her shoes and think what would you will be doing if its happen to you.its natural..she married you with a reason and every woman does the same.

I only partially agree. If gender and the physicality of all of that is one of the most important things to a person, then yep staying together is going to be really hard. If the sum of the friendship, family, shared experiences, spiritual beliefs and other factors over ride that, then it may not.

It would be wrong to call one set of values shallow and the other not, they are just different. We all marry for different reasons. It is hard to paint everyone with the same brush.

Quote from: RobynD on August 11, 2016, 06:48:22 PM

This really does sound like I'm bragging as i write this, but i really want to encourage people to hang in there and not give up on someone you love, because of change. What comes out the other side can be better.

No Robyn it was really helpful for me.  I was getting quite depressed with a lot of the other posts.  I doubt it but maybe my wife and I could make things work.

Thanks,
Paige :)

This has been good info for me. My wife and I initially decided to try to make it work. She asked for the divorce a couple of weeks ago. She just can't get around her old ideas. She still sees it as a choice and wrong and I'm going to hell. She had already become verbally abusive also. When I started shaving my legs and pits it was too much. She started timing how long my showers were and bitching about it. I was actually relieved when she asked for a divorce. I am not taking it as hard, but I don't think in hind site that I was ever really capable of loving her in the same way.

The other thing i would add is that physicality and sex specifically vary widely between couples.

Some people say "there is no way i could be married to someone i was not sexually attracted to". In my opinion, that ignores the simple fact that sexual attraction changes, ebbs, and flows. Almost anyone married for a long time sees this. But, you often keep having sex in spite of this. Intimacy becomes a confirmation of the rest of your love and connection together.