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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ark-encounter-rainbow_us_585d39efe4b0eb5864860974

The morally oppressed or is that repressed, have decided that our "Alternative lifestyle" use of the Rainbow was stolen from them. I can't make this up people.

I don't think their plan is going to work.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

We could always trade it back in exchange for being treated with respect like human beings. 

Oh my god, aren't they just so adorable?  Ha!  Oh, I love these wacky conspiracy nuts and their persistent persecution complex.. it is amazing how bad they think they actually have it in this society.  Oh I could go on for pages regarding these sort of people.. I'll leave it for yahoo news, instead of offending the good people of this sub forum.

The rainbow? "With different colors"?!??  I think they just described flags in general.  Damn those countries, appropriating the Chrstia (?!??) Rainbow with different colors!


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See how many people thanked them for their support...I certainly did.

;D
Liz

Apple 'stole' it before we did, maybe they should get on their case too.

The community actually did steal the rainbow from God.

LOL!

Ignore them. Rainbows occur in nature.
People can't copyright them unless they are used in a special trademark design, like the Apple symbol.

Much of Christianity was stolen from someone else.  For example, the ark was "borrowed" from the Babylonians, not to mention Christmas, which was a hijacked "pagan" festival.  Christianity has a long history of stealing from others.

So we stole the rainbow and they want it back?  Too bad!  The rainbow looks good on me!

Reminds me of the time a few years ago when vapid celebrity-for-no-reason Paris Hilton filed a petition with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office for a commercial trademark on the word "hot."  Application denied.  You don't hear much about Paris Hilton anymore, do you?

And some of you guys wonder why Christians have an issue with you. Stuff like that, personally it offends that the lgbt community took the rainbow, you took it and twisted the whole meaning.

Quote from: AnneK on May 26, 2017, 06:05:23 AM
Much of Christianity was stolen from someone else.  For example, the ark was "borrowed" from the Babylonians, not to mention Christmas, which was a hijacked "pagan" festival.  Christianity has a long history of stealing from others.

Let me clarify something, the lgbt community twisted the whole meaning, that was my point and this is why alot of Christians have an issue with you guys, I don't recall Christianity ever stealing something and changing meaning.

Well, you can start here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_controversies#History_2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_controversies#History_2)

There were prior "pagan" festivals prior to Christianity that were taken over.  I also mentioned the ark, which came from the Babylonians and there are others.

Sorry, Brandon..the Sumerians wrote the the same stories as the first part of the Old Testament 2000 years before the Bible was even written, using the same names-changed only for Babylonian spelling, and incidences except told from the viewpoint of aliens, or "gods" from another world that mixed their DNA with local ape human to genetically engineer workers for the gold mines. They also engineered domestic animals and crop plants in their garden of Aiden.

The origins of human beings according to ancient Sumerian texts http://www.ancient-origins.net/human-origins-folklore/origins-human-beings-according-ancient-sumerian-texts-0065?

Quote from: AnneK on May 27, 2017, 06:13:33 AM
Well, you can start here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_controversies#History_2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_controversies#History_2)

There were prior "pagan" festivals prior to Christianity that were taken over.  I also mentioned the ark, which came from the Babylonians and there are others.

And I am sure Christianity might have taken things but that's not the topic of discussion, the whole point was the rainbow has a whole different meaning and that is that Gods promise, that he would not flood the earth again, I mean come on even some of the lgbt community knows that. So you should understand why some Christians don't like the lgbt community. That's all I am saying

Well, I somehow doubt rainbows were first invented for the ark.  And as I mentioned, the biblical ark story was based on a Babylonian myth.  Given that the bible is so easily contradicted by history, archaeology and even within itself, why should any of it be believed?  Add that the fact that it has been edited a few times in the process.  A big edit came around the 3rd century, there were more changes with the King James vs Catholic bible and more.  The old testament can be traced to 3 groups who pretty much wrote the entire thing, none of whom had any connection to the actual events.  Of course, not a word of the new testament was written within 3 generations of the supposed events.  So, what can you possibly point to as absolute fact?  I'd say absolutely none of if.

Do Christians also dislike the US Army?

42d Infantry Div "Rainbow Division"
http://bit.ly/2quBoAy




Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Quote"Rainbow Division"

Given the context here, I could make a joke about that, but I'd better not.   ;)

Quote from: AnneK on May 27, 2017, 12:10:27 PM
Well, I somehow doubt rainbows were first invented for the ark.  And as I mentioned, the biblical ark story was based on a Babylonian myth.  Given that the bible is so easily contradicted by history, archaeology and even within itself, why should any of it be believed?  Add that the fact that it has been edited a few times in the process.  A big edit came around the 3rd century, there were more changes with the King James vs Catholic bible and more.  The old testament can be traced to 3 groups who pretty much wrote the entire thing, none of whom had any connection to the actual events.  Of course, not a word of the new testament was written within 3 generations of the supposed events.  So, what can you possibly point to as absolute fact?  I'd say absolutely none of if.

What's written in the bible should be believed because alot alot of things that were prophicided in the bible is starting to come to past and alot alot of people are noticing that and not just Christians and people are scared, all it takes is to read it and you will see matter fact I could post a picture on here of a bible scripture talking about the end of the world and how the people will act and its scary because its happening.

Just to prove my point that the prophecy is being fufilled, check out this passage, everything that it's saying is happening and I see it and if you don't there is an issue.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZQ1EUB1.jpg&hash=203bbd97e832267f094db5a51ed67eed39f3e60a)

Matthew 24:35-6 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. NO ONE knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Erin

This panic about the imminent end of the world has been rampant for 2000 years.  The world is still here.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

QuoteWhat's written in the bible should be believed because alot alot of things that were prophicided in the bible is starting to come to past and alot alot of people are noticing that and not just Christians and people are scared, all it takes is to read it and you will see matter fact I could post a picture on here of a bible scripture talking about the end of the world and how the people will act and its scary because its happening.

Well, the scariest thing at the moment is the Trump administration.  However, I don't think it's the end of the world (yet).  The mid terms are a time when things can start to turn around.


BTW, ever hear of a guy named "Harlold Camping"?  He was one of those end of the world types and told people to get ready for it.  Well, he apparently missed all the fun, because he kicked the bucket a couple of years back.  History has been filled with these prophecies and time after time, they have always proved to be nonsense.

Google the Millerites.  This is nothing new.

And there was the panic at the end of the first millennium.  http://bit.ly/2qvhmGn

And there was Hal Lindsey when I was in high school.

Etc. Etc. Etc.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

You guys should just agree to disagree and part friends.
Moni

Quotetalking about the end of the world

Here's a "prophecy" you can bet on.  In a few billion years, the sun will run out of fuel and turn into a red giant.  At that time, the earth will be incinerated and we'll have our end of the world.  Get your popcorn ready.

Please note, this is based on hard scientific fact, not belief.

There's nothing worse than a reformed fundamentalist and until fairly recently I was to the right of the right wingers.  Then I had an epiphany that cured me of a massive case of cognitive dissonance.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Quote from: Brandon on May 27, 2017, 12:47:18 PM
Just to prove my point that the prophecy is being fufilled, check out this passage, everything that it's saying is happening and I see it and if you don't there is an issue.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZQ1EUB1.jpg&hash=203bbd97e832267f094db5a51ed67eed39f3e60a)

Yup. You're right.  That is happening now.  But that passage is just a description of human nature and human society as it has existed as far back into the the mists of prehistory as you could care to go.  That's why that passage resonated so strongly with Bronze Age people. It was happening to them too back when it was written.  It was a description of what they saw around them in their own society.   In fact it was much more true of the brutal society they lived and wrote in.  Human nature is not all roses, and warm hugs, and soft, warm fuzzies from some dreamt of Arcadian, golden age fantasy.  And most likely it will describe human nature far into the future.  It has always been happening and will always be happening.  All you have proven is that those Bronze Age writers had a marvelous grasp of the obvious.

Quote from: Deborah on May 27, 2017, 01:58:31 PM
This panic about the imminent end of the world has been rampant for 2000 years.  The world is still here.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Read what the lady up top said, no one knows the day hour and I am not panicking lol but we are in the last days and the bible scripture I posted proves that.

Getting back to the original issue -wasn't it the Care Bears that stole the rainbow?

The silliness of people. There are those in Christianity that claim that the bible encompasses the entire history, present and future of the entire universe, so in a sense anything would be borrowed from "them".

I prefer to think of the scripture as an awesome source of ancient knowledge that described man's relationship to God. There are many other things that do that too. I'm a believer but not a fundamentalist but i know many of them, and some of them are always "itching for a fight"

I love the rainbow as used by the LGTB+, it portrays diversity quite nicely.

QuoteRead what the lady up top said, no one knows the day hour and I am not panicking lol but we are in the last days and the bible scripture I posted proves that.

Care to prove that???  Using the bible to prove itself is called circular logic and if you have to resort to that, all you're proving is you have no proof.

As has been pointed out before, there have been many claims of of impending end of the world.  Yet, time after time, we're still here regardless.  On the other hand, since you claim no one knows when, why are you so sure it's now???  A bit of contradiction perhaps???

Quote from: AnneK on May 28, 2017, 04:36:41 PM
Care to prove that???  Using the bible to prove itself is called circular logic and if you have to resort to that, all you're proving is you have no proof.

As has been pointed out before, there have been many claims of of impending end of the world.  Yet, time after time, we're still here regardless.  On the other hand, since you claim no one knows when, why are you so sure it's now???  A bit of contradiction perhaps???

Lol the bible literally says no one knows the day nor hour and I said that we are in the last days not that the world will end now, so I am confused on how you think I contradicted myself and I am sure of that because there is proof all around you all you have to do is open your eyes but you are not willing to do that so what's the point, there are more scriptures than that, that prove we are in the last days and it's funny because the that scripture says signs we are in the last days yet you still choose to dismiss it. So what's the use.

Quote from: Brandon on May 27, 2017, 03:57:55 AM
Let me clarify something, the lgbt community twisted the whole meaning, that was my point and this is why alot of Christians have an issue with you guys, I don't recall Christianity ever stealing something and changing meaning.

Suuuuurrrre, the rainbow is the reason why a lot of christian's have an issue with "us guys".....that MUST be the reason....we will go with that.  LOL

So I guess then that if we abandon the rainbow the Evangelicals will flock to our defense in supporting full non discrimination laws.

Do you truly believe that?


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Christianity & Catholocism have certainly been used to justify the theft of land all over the world. I urge you to read the doctrine of discovery if this sort of thing interests you. Just commenting before Cindy swoops in and locks the thread hahahahaha ;D

Quote from: staciM on May 30, 2017, 11:35:38 PM

Suuuuurrrre, the rainbow is the reason why a lot of christian's have an issue with "us guys".....that MUST be the reason....we will go with that.  LOL

In no way am I trying to be rude but the bible does speak against homosexuality, so that's the other issue, now I don't care who any one dates personally. I am gonna speak my mind considering I am Christian and this is what my bible teaches. Now I also don't agree with those Christians that pick and choose because I'm reality we all sin, just differently.

Quote from: Deborah on May 31, 2017, 05:59:22 AM
So I guess then that if we abandon the rainbow the Evangelicals will flock to our defense in supporting full non discrimination laws.

Do you truly believe that?


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Most Christians don't agree with the discrimination but that doesn't mean they will agree with you and how you live your life either especially when following the word.

The Thread is no Unlocked but please

I would like to take this opportunity to remind members of TOS 7

7. Leave moderating to the moderators! Susan and her staff are the only people who are authorized to deny anyone access to this website, including telling someone to leave, or to stop discussing a topic.  If someone wishes to discuss a subject that you are not interested in,  suggest a new subject; go to another of the many areas on this site; or ignore that person, topic, or discussion.
Members should immediately report any messages both public and private that they feel may possibly be abusive, inappropriate, unwelcome, or unsolicited contact attempts, to staff using the Report links in posts and personal messages.

And 15

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Attack the argument and not the poster. Let us try and keep the topic on track

Regards
ElizabethK

As Brandon correctly pointed out, this is the Christianity forum. If you have issues with Christianity please post elsewhere instead of stirring up trouble where it is not needed or warranted.

To be fair, in my opinion I think that ever since the rainbow was adopted by the LGBT movement it's been heavily co-opted to the point that a rainbow is immediately associated with something 'queer' and speaking from experience, before I came out (and even still) I loathe that I cant do anything thats associated with the rainbow for fear of people immediately thinking it has to be LGBT related, many of my hetero friends feel this way as well, and none of us are even homophobic or transphobic...idk just my 0.02 cents...

Darn, if we had only stolen the pot of gold too.  ;)

But seriously there are many Christians who take science seriously and understand how a rainbow works.  It's only a small minority of Christians that would worry about something like this. 

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3b/Dark_Side_of_the_Moon.png)


Peace,
Paige :)

You know.....Just how everyone is trying to take the Christ out of Christmas!!!

Lest we forget, the original celebration of Christmas was winter solstice and the pagan worship of trees...But no, it was Jesus's birthday, so that's why put up trees and spend copious amount of money on useless crap we don't need and stuff our faces to the point of gluttony. (Gluttony being a sin in the bible.)

Oh...And Easter...The worship of the Egyptian goddess of fertility...but no, that was the day Jesus was crucified...So we paint eggs and stuff our face with chocolate rabbits.

Not to mention, any religion who uses the torture device used on their savior as a religion wide symbol of peace is kind of waked out.

I was raised southern baptist, and to agree I do believe in a god (of some sort), but organized religion is just so frustrating, especially when they're constantly stating they're the ones who are oppressed while they're the ones oppressing others.

We should thank them for spreading the message of pride by having such a colorful display!  How swell!

To me it boggles the mind that transgender and gay people would defend white evangelical Christians at all, but I suppose a lifetime of religious conditioning does that.

Kind of like Caitlyn Jenner defending the Republican party. Weird.

Quote from: Raell on July 16, 2017, 12:16:44 PM
To me it boggles the mind that transgender and gay people would defend white evangelical Christians at all, but I suppose a lifetime of religious conditioning does that.

Kind of like Caitlyn Jenner defending the Republican party. Weird.

By that logic no sinner should defend Christians because no one is perfect lol? And I don't defend those Christians that like to pick and choose because its honestly annoying and for me it's not conditioning I know my God is real because he has done so much for me, no conditioning there lol. I don't see what's wrong with having faith in whatever you believe in. Why does it matter that  Caitlyn Jenner has conservative views as far as I am concerned if you are respectful about it what's the issue?

Quote from: Paige on July 11, 2017, 09:30:03 AM
Darn, if we had only stolen the pot of gold too.  ;)

But seriously there are many Christians who take science seriously and understand how a rainbow works.  It's only a small minority of Christians that would worry about something like this. 

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3b/Dark_Side_of_the_Moon.png)


Peace,
Paige :)

I have to respectfully disagree on that. I believe in some science and I do believe that there are genuine scientist out here trying to figure out the cause of things but the bible teaches something different as far as rainbows go.

From the Epic of Gilgamesh.

"Then Ishtar arrived. She lifted up the necklace of great jewels that her father, Anu, had created to please her and said, "Heavenly gods, as surely as this jewelled necklace hangs upon my neck, I will never forget these days of the great flood. Let all of the gods except Enlil come to the offering. Enlil may not come, for without reason he brought forth the flood that destroyed my people."

The Christians stole the rainbow from the Jews who stole it from the Babylonians.

So, you give it back.


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Quote from: Brandon on August 05, 2017, 03:21:39 AM
I have to respectfully disagree on that. I believe in some science and I do believe that there are genuine scientist out here trying to figure out the cause of things but the bible teaches something different as far as rainbows go.

How can you believe in "some science"?  Science is science, that is investigating to uncover evidence and fact.  That's quite different from faith, where you are told to accept something, often something that's clearly nonsense, no questions asked.

Science will tell you much more about the real world, universe, etc., about reality than religion ever will.

Quote from: Brandon on August 05, 2017, 03:16:42 AM
...... and for me it's not conditioning I know my God is real because he has done so much for me, no conditioning there lol. I don't see what's wrong with having faith in whatever you believe in.

I believe in unicorns, and I can attribute all my success and all the good in my life to those unicorns, because I say so....therefore  they must be real.  Btw, stop the madness...we ALL know rainbows belong with unicorns!  The difference is I'm not going to be bothered that the LGBT community also uses my precious unicorns rainbow.

Quote from: Viktor on December 24, 2016, 07:00:31 PM
Apple 'stole' it before we did, maybe they should get on their case too.

Whoa.  That means we stole it from Apple?  Riling up the fundamentalists is bad enough, but those Apple lawyers play for keeps.   ;D

Why don't you Christians complain about the Irish and their leprechauns?  Oh yeah, this isn't about the rainbow at all.  It's simply another obvious manifestation of your blatant bigotry.


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Quote from: AnneK on August 05, 2017, 01:52:12 PM
How can you believe in "some science"?  Science is science, that is investigating to uncover evidence and fact.  That's quite different from faith, where you are told to accept something, often something that's clearly nonsense, no questions asked.

Science will tell you much more about the real world, universe, etc., about reality than religion ever will.

Why is what I believe in nonsense? Something that I have experience and has helped guide me through life? Rude much and I was never told to accept anything I experienced it for myself lol, for myself I prayed and asked God to show me he was real and you know what he did. Don't question my beliefs. The reason I said some science is because I don't believe we came from nowhere which is what science tells us, I don't believe in no big bang theory. I believe in God though. Lol. As far as I am concerned some science is bs which again is why I said I believe in both but more so God.

Quote from: Deborah on August 05, 2017, 04:42:38 PM
Why don't you Christians complain about the Irish and their leprechauns?  Oh yeah, this isn't about the rainbow at all.  It's simply another obvious manifestation of your blatant bigotry.


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It is about the bible and what it states and just because I have in oppinion doesn't mean I am bigot but see that that's the problem with some lgbt people, some of you can't take it if someone doesn't agree with you, well let me tell you something its life! Not everyone is gonna agree with you. Some of you can be to sensitive, I could care less about who accepts me and who doesn't, you will never last in the world caring about what other people think and again, I am not a bigot. Because I follow the word.

Quote from: staciM on August 05, 2017, 02:06:48 PM
I believe in unicorns, and I can attribute all my success and all the good in my life to those unicorns, because I say so....therefore  they must be real.  Btw, stop the madness...we ALL know rainbows belong with unicorns!  The difference is I'm not going to be bothered that the LGBT community also uses my precious unicorns rainbow.

All I am saying is That's not what it was for and then all you guys wanna jump down my throat, again this is a Christian forum, where we talk about Christian like things and if you can't handle that then leave this section and that goes for everyone who is jumping down my throat.

I think christians don't have any right to say someone stole from them. They've stolen from almot every religion. The ark's history is common to many cultures, in Europe, Asia, and even America. Most celebrations and symbols are stolen frm somewhere. Have you ever wonder what do rabbits and eggs have in common? Nothing, except being fertility symbols used in the spring equinox by pagan cultures. Jesus wasn't born on the 25th of december, that's when the pagans celebrated the winter solstice. Even the symbol of the goat, which originally represented fertility AND humanity, was turned by christianity into a representation of satan and pure evil for political reasons.

They should check their own history before complaining about stolen symbology.

Quote from: Brandon on August 05, 2017, 10:23:08 PM
The reason I said some science is because I don't believe we came from nowhere which is what science tells us,

That everything was created from nothing, ex nihilo, is basic Christian doctrine.  So you don't believe in some science because you don't believe in what the Bible says?  That doesn't even make any sense.  Think!



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Quote from: Lady Lisandra on August 06, 2017, 01:40:15 AM
I think christians don't have any right to say someone stole from them. They've stolen from almot every religion. The ark's history is common to many cultures, in Europe, Asia, and even America. Most celebrations and symbols are stolen frm somewhere. Have you ever wonder what do rabbits and eggs have in common? Nothing, except being fertility symbols used in the spring equinox by pagan cultures. Jesus wasn't born on the 25th of december, that's when the pagans celebrated the winter solstice. Even the symbol of the goat, which originally represented fertility AND humanity, was turned by christianity into a representation of satan and pure evil for political reasons.

They should check their own history before complaining about stolen symbology.

Funny thing is I know Jesus was not born on the 25th, another funny thing is, everything you just said is stuff I already knew and not every Christian agrees with that either, just like who said all Christians agree with, rabbits and Easter bunnys, or that the only reason for Christmas is gifts. Now as far as the goat head, I have to disagree the baphomet is what made people not like the goat head and consider it satanic because it was also making satanic hand gestures. Even with the flood of course that happened in other places because ir was a worldwide flood and if anything what you stated about the ark, is just more proof that it happened.

Quote from: Deborah on August 06, 2017, 02:00:17 AM
That everything was created from nothing, ex nihilo, is basic Christian doctrine.  So you don't believe in some science because you don't believe in what the Bible says?  That doesn't even make any sense.  Think!



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But all of our lives were still pre destined before we were actually born though so while God did come from out of no where he still created us, which is what I believe and that's different than what science tells us. Perhaps you should think.

Quote from: Brandon on August 06, 2017, 03:01:18 AM
Funny thing is I know Jesus was not born on the 25th, another funny thing is, everything you just said is stuff I already knew and not every Christian agrees with that either, just like who said all Christians agree with, rabbits and Easter bunnys, or that the only reason for Christmas is gifts. Now as far as the goat head, I have to disagree the baphomet is what made people not like the goat head and consider it satanic because it was also making satanic hand gestures. Even with the flood of course that happened in other places because ir was a worldwide flood and if anything what you stated about the ark, is just more proof that it happened.

So you recognize that the church has taken symbols from other religions and adapten them for their own benefit?

Quote from: Brandon on August 05, 2017, 03:21:39 AM
I have to respectfully disagree on that. I believe in some science and I do believe that there are genuine scientist out here trying to figure out the cause of things but the bible teaches something different as far as rainbows go.

You can't just believe in some science. That claim shows you do not understand what science is about. It's about investigating evidence and drawing conclusion based on that evidence.  For example, if a scientist wants to investigate something they'll set up and fully document an experiment.  That documentation will include:
1) Purpose of the experiment
2) Full description of the experiment, including methods, materials and equipment.
3) Detailed observations
4) Conclusions based on the observations

Because the experiment is fully documented, someone else can examine the experiment and even run it again, to verify the results.  Because of this, science is self correcting.  Errors, even deliberate ones, will be uncovered sooner or later.

So, when someone says they don't believe in science, even some science, they're saying they don't believe in demonstratable evidence and fact.

QuoteWhy is what I believe in nonsense?

One example already mentioned is Noah's flood.  History shows that story was borrowed from Babylon, a region that had annual floods.  Also, there is simply not enough water on the planet to create the flood as described.  It's physically impossible.

Quoteagain this is a Christian forum, where we talk about Christian like things and if you can't handle that then leave this section

Perhaps you should be asking why religion is so fragile that it can't withstand a bit of scrutiny.

QuoteBut all of our lives were still pre destined before we were actually born though so while God did come from out of no where he still created us, which is what I believe and that's different than what science tells us. Perhaps you should think.

This is another example of the nonsense.  If this "god" came out of nothing, then why is it so improbable that life managed to form on it's own?  Seems to me such a god is much more unlikely than life resulting from chemical reactions.  Incidentally, some of the basic building blocks of life, such as amino acids and proteins have been created in the lab, through chemical reaction.  That first happened back in the '50s.

Science requires evidence and proof.  Where are they for religion?

Incidentally, some things may always be beyond our understanding.  That does not imply "God" did it.  It just means we don't (yet) know enough.

Quote from: Brandon on August 06, 2017, 03:04:10 AM
But all of our lives were still pre destined before we were actually born though so while God did come from out of no where he still created us, which is what I believe and that's different than what science tells us. Perhaps you should think.

Ex Nihilo doesn't have anything to do with God's origin.  It refers to the creation of the cosmos and contends that it was created from nothing.  That's what you said you don't believe in.


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Here's an example of what science can do:
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/08/06/a-whole-new-universe-1919-eclipse-confirmed-einsteins-theory-of-general-relatively.html

Einstein took established science of the day, based on Newton, and found some problems.  He investigated, including the experiment described in the article, and described how gravity interacted with the universe, including time.  Now, you may think that doesn't have much effect on is, but it's this understanding that makes the GPS system so accurate.  That provides a lot of benefit for humanity.

Another example would be how Edwin Hubble discovered the expanding universe, through observing red shift.  He was later challenged by Fred Hoyle, who advocated a steady state universe.  However, research since has shown Hubble to be correct.

Then there's Darwin, who challenged how life evolved on our planet.  The established belief was that god created everything on earth, exactly as it is and would always be.  Darwin demonstrated the basics of evolution, despite so much opposition that he was afraid to reveal his findings until late in his life.  Then in the 50s, research in England found DNA as the mechanism for evolution.

All these examples show how science establishes fact and advances knowledge.  Please show something in religious books that demonstrate something comparable.  Evidence will be required.

Quote from: Lady Lisandra on August 06, 2017, 04:22:38 AM
So you recognize that the church has taken symbols from other religions and adapten them for their own benefit?

Yes and I never said I agreed with it, I am more of the person to where as I believe in God and love God but I don't get to involved with how some pastors or bishops do things. I enjoy having a personal relatrelationship with God.

Quote from: AnneK on August 06, 2017, 08:14:06 AM
You can't just believe in some science. That claim shows you do not understand what science is about. It's about investigating evidence and drawing conclusion based on that evidence.  For example, if a scientist wants to investigate something they'll set up and fully document an experiment.  That documentation will include:
1) Purpose of the experiment
2) Full description of the experiment, including methods, materials and equipment.
3) Detailed observations
4) Conclusions based on the observations

Because the experiment is fully documented, someone else can examine the experiment and even run it again, to verify the results.  Because of this, science is self correcting.  Errors, even deliberate ones, will be uncovered sooner or later.

So, when someone says they don't believe in science, even some science, they're saying they don't believe in demonstratable evidence and fact.

One example already mentioned is Noah's flood.  History shows that story was borrowed from Babylon, a region that had annual floods.  Also, there is simply not enough water on the planet to create the flood as described.  It's physically impossible.

Perhaps you should be asking why religion is so fragile that it can't withstand a bit of scrutiny.

This is another example of the nonsense.  If this "god" came out of nothing, then why is it so improbable that life managed to form on it's own?  Seems to me such a god is much more unlikely than life resulting from chemical reactions.  Incidentally, some of the basic building blocks of life, such as amino acids and proteins have been created in the lab, through chemical reaction.  That first happened back in the '50s.

Science requires evidence and proof.  Where are they for religion?

Incidentally, some things may always be beyond our understanding.  That does not imply "God" did it.  It just means we don't (yet) know enough.

I can believe it what ever I want to believe in, just like you choose not to believe in God, so again I do believe in some science and Imma leave it at that. Just because you don't believe in God does not make my beliefs nonsense you have no idea what I have been through and why I have so much faith in God, now I am trying to be respectful but you are making that hard, you ain't gotta believe in God, cool ,good for you but don't disrespect my beliefs, do that the atheist section. Now as far as the flood goes, with God all things are possible and the population was small at the time so a flood was very much possible lol and the reason you. About the flood in different regions is because it did happen lmaoo, that again proves that it happened because other regions are saying it. Everything that God has done for me is more than enough proof for me that he exist, you say where's the proof have some faith, thats what its . I can go on and on about why I know God exist but its not gonna change your closeminded view. It's not religion that can't take scrutiny its part of the lgbt community, you can't take someone disagreeing with you, when in reality no one has to like how you live your life.

Quote from: AnneK on August 06, 2017, 09:19:13 AM
Here's an example of what science can do:
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/08/06/a-whole-new-universe-1919-eclipse-confirmed-einsteins-theory-of-general-relatively.html

Einstein took established science of the day, based on Newton, and found some problems.  He investigated, including the experiment described in the article, and described how gravity interacted with the universe, including time.  Now, you may think that doesn't have much effect on is, but it's this understanding that makes the GPS system so accurate.  That provides a lot of benefit for humanity.

Another example would be how Edwin Hubble discovered the expanding universe, through observing red shift.  He was later challenged by Fred Hoyle, who advocated a steady state universe.  However, research since has shown Hubble to be correct.

Then there's Darwin, who challenged how life evolved on our planet.  The established belief was that god created everything on earth, exactly as it is and would always be.  Darwin demonstrated the basics of evolution, despite so much opposition that he was afraid to reveal his findings until late in his life.  Then in the 50s, research in England found DNA as the mechanism for evolution.

All these examples show how science establishes fact and advances knowledge.  Please show something in religious books that demonstrate something comparable.  Evidence will be required.

And just because you read it in a science book doesn't make it true but that is another story that I won't even speak on. Again believing in God takes faith again, I have seen what God can do, maybe seek him and he will show you, I did, I use to question my beliefs all the time as a teen but I asked him to show me he is real and he did just that. My question to you is, why are you in this section if you don't believe in God? Nothing I can say will make you believe and honestly I don't have the time and patience.

I believe in science and In god(a god/gods and any and/or ess prefixes).

do i Belive in the law of god (the covenant i made with god) Yes i do, my faith and that covenant would not exsist if i didnt.

Do i belive in the law of the land? yes i do, science amongst other things is one of those laws.

If their is a conflict between the law of the land, a law we are bound to follow, and the law of god then that is due to humanities imperfection and a miss-understanding in the law of god. (Sorry if anyone is offended by that)

I just get iritated with argument concerning science and religion.

Quote from: Brandon on August 06, 2017, 01:15:24 PM
And just because you read it in a science book doesn't make it true but that is another story that I won't even speak on. Again believing in God takes faith again, I have seen what God can do, maybe seek him and he will show you, I did, I use to question my beliefs all the time as a teen but I asked him to show me he is real and he did just that. My question to you is, why are you in this section if you don't believe in God? Nothing I can say will make you believe and honestly I don't have the time and patience.

As I mentioned, science is self correcting.  If there's an error somewhere, it will be corrected sooner or later.  Same can't be said about religion, even though we have centuries of proof that things that were claimed were indeed false.  Let me ask you, why do you believe in something for which there is not only no proof, but plenty that contradicts it?  Provide some evidence of something that could only have been done by some god, with no other possible explanation.  If religion is real, then you shouldn't have much problem coming up with verifiable examples.  Again, evidence is required.

Quote from: AnneK on August 06, 2017, 02:03:17 PM
As I mentioned, science is self correcting.  If there's an error somewhere, it will be corrected sooner or later.  Same can't be said about religion, even though we have centuries of proof that things that were claimed were indeed false.  Let me ask you, why do you believe in something for which there is not only no proof, but plenty that contradicts it?  Provide some evidence of something that could only have been done by some god, with no other possible explanation.  If religion is real, then you shouldn't have much problem coming up with verifiable examples.  Again, evidence is required.

Okay like the fact that not to long ago my check didn't come so I had no money for food, it wasn't be here for another week because I get paid biweekly, now I am a party host and gameroom attendant where I work, I was taken off parties for a while and my manager wanted to test me again, well the night before I prayed to God and said you know I gotta get food and I have nothing and I know you will make a way out of no way, next day both of my parties have me a 20 dollar tip, I came home with 40 dollars. So I know my God is real, or for an example for the longest I had no job, has no idea how I was gonna pay for hrt, buy a car, again I prayed to God and I cried because I really needed the job and I hadn't been called back, I thought oh they don't want me, well that next morning I called, they said oh we have you down for a second interview and I got the job and been there for almost a year today. The fact God wiped away all my suicidal tboughts, I use to contemplate suicide daily, I got marks all on my arm but through prayer,  here I am today by the Grace of God doing better like I never dreamed of. My eyes use to be  lazy as hell at 5 years old, they were trying to do laser eye surgery but she felt I was way to young for that, so my mom prayed and prayed and today if you looked at me, you would not be able to tell, I had a lazy eye and I know I didn't have surgery because I remember all my eye doctor appointments as a child. The fact that I can go to church and they could be talking about that very thing I am going though, or just asking God for answers, like I did recently and he gave me one, right then and there, or what bout the fact I should be dead because I hot a damn artery in my head but by the Grace of God I am still here, it goes on and on and on but no matter what I tell you, you still won't believe and I'll state it again, you don't know my story and what I been through so do not question my beliefs.

And AnneK, you really think l science is correct? You are in for a rude awakening because we been lied to all of our life's but that's for another time and for another story cuz see I am also a conspiracy theorist but this is not what this is about.

Quote from: Brandon on August 06, 2017, 08:22:11 PM

Okay like the fact that not to long ago my check didn't come so I had no money for food, it wasn't be here for another week because I get paid biweekly, now I am a party host and gameroom attendant where I work, I was taken off parties for a while and my manager wanted to test me again, well the night before I prayed to God and said you know I gotta get food and I have nothing and I know you will make a way out of no way, next day both of my parties have me a 20 dollar tip, I came home with 40 dollars. So I know my God is real, or for an example for the longest I had no job, has no idea how I was gonna pay for hrt, buy a car, again I prayed to God and I cried because I really needed the job and I hadn't been called back, I thought oh they don't want me, well that next morning I called, they said oh we have you down for a second interview and I got the job and been there for almost a year today. The fact God wiped away all my suicidal tboughts, I use to contemplate suicide daily, I got marks all on my arm but through prayer,  here I am today by the Grace of God doing better like I never dreamed of. My eyes use to be  lazy as hell at 5 years old, they were trying to do laser eye surgery but she felt I was way to young for that, so my mom prayed and prayed and today if you looked at me, you would not be able to tell, I had a lazy eye and I know I didn't have surgery because I remember all my eye doctor appointments as a child. The fact that I can go to church and they could be talking about that very thing I am going though, or just asking God for answers, like I did recently and he gave me one, right then and there, or what bout the fact I should be dead because I hot a damn artery in my head but by the Grace of God I am still here, it goes on and on and on but no matter what I tell you, you still won't believe and I'll state it again, you don't know my story and what I been through so do not question my beliefs.

And how do you know that those things wouldn't have happened if you hadn't prayed?  You don't.  You just make a claim, without evidence to support it.

As for being lied to all our lives, well religion has been a major factor in that regard.  Any yes, I know science is correct, because it is based on evidence & fact, not unsubstantiated claims.  For example, take a look at medicine.  It was science and nothing but, that allows the various treatments, cures, etc., that simply weren't available not that many years ago.  They didn't just happen, because someone prayed.  It took research and hard work to advance medicine over the years.

Quote from: AnneK on August 06, 2017, 08:37:47 PM
And how do you know that those things wouldn't have happened if you hadn't prayed?  You don't.  You just make a claim, without evidence to support it.

As for being lied to all our lives, well religion has been a major factor in that regard.  Any yes, I know science is correct, because it is based on evidence & fact, not unsubstantiated claims.  For example, take a look at medicine.  It was science and nothing but, that allows the various treatments, cures, etc., that simply weren't available not that many years ago.  They didn't just happen, because someone prayed.  It took research and hard work to advance medicine over the years.

The evidence is called having faith which you still seem to miss lol, you want evidence then seek him and no none of that would have happened had I not prayed, again you don't know my story, nor what I been through, you don't and you are kind of being disrespectful right now. Again you want evidence seek him for yourself. Not all science is correct lol, you keep thinking that though. Btw prayer does work and it changes things.

Quote from: HoneyStrums on August 06, 2017, 01:24:48 PM


If their is a conflict between the law of the land, a law we are bound to follow, and the law of god then that is due to humanities imperfection and a miss-understanding in the law of god. (Sorry if anyone is offended by that)

I'm not offended by it.  It just frightens me.  The historical litany of psychopaths who have cited the law of God to justify their atrocities is seemingly endless.  Appealing to a higher power is the cheapest way to end a discussion.

LOL!
People are indoctrinated into their parents' religions and beliefs from birth. Usually, nothing you say or do will make a difference, as they will only feel "attacked."

Sometimes, when people grow up, they come to their own, different conclusions, usually after a crisis that opens their eyes, such as having a near death experience, taking psychedelic mushrooms or drugs that exposes them to their subconscious sides, or even from traveling abroad and being exposed to alternate beliefs.

If you don't believe me, try telling a Trump follower why transgender people should have legal protections, using science and logic. Waste of time.

But studies show that people stay in denial to protect themselves from uncomfortable ideas.

5 Reasons Why People Stick to Their Beliefs, No Matter What | Psychology Today https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/true-believers/201603/5-reasons-why-people-stick-their-beliefs-no-matter-what

Quote from: rmaddy on August 06, 2017, 10:11:56 PM
I'm not offended by it.  It just frightens me.  The historical litany of psychopaths who have cited the law of God to justify their atrocities is seemingly endless.  Appealing to a higher power is the cheapest way to end a discussion.

So we are psychopaths now?

Quote from: Raell on August 06, 2017, 10:18:27 PM
LOL!
People are indoctrinated into their parents' religions and beliefs from birth. Usually, nothing you say or do will make a difference, as they will only feel "attacked."

Sometimes, when people grow up, they come to their own, different conclusions, usually after a crisis that opens their eyes, such as having a near death experience, taking psychedelic mushrooms or drugs that exposes them to their subconscious sides, or even from traveling abroad and being exposed to alternate beliefs.

If you don't believe me, try telling a Trump follower why transgender people should have legal protections, using science and logic. Waste of time.

But studies show that people stay in denial to protect themselves from uncomfortable ideas.

5 Reasons Why People Stick to Their Beliefs, No Matter What | Psychology Today https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/true-believers/201603/5-reasons-why-people-stick-their-beliefs-no-matter-what

My mom never forced religion on me or my sister, I went to church from and child till now which I still do but my mom didn't really explain all that to me because she knew I wouldn't understand it. I didn't start fully believing in God until I was 18, when I seen him do things for me and seeked him for myself. Trump isn't a real Christian, ge preaches hate. That's not of God and I highly doubt he will make it in to the kingdom of heaven.

Quote from: Brandon on August 06, 2017, 11:14:31 PM
So we are psychopaths now?

I don't believe Maddy was calling you a psychopath, but rather suggesting that psychopaths might make the same sorts of claims, and therefore could be less easy to distinguish.  There is a social contract that we have all accepted either explicitly or not, that mathematics and science are believed to be true.  If we all did not accept this, there would be no way to police financial transactions, no way to determine the value of things, etc...  So, we all have to accept the basic tenets of math and science, and then all of the higher-level research and study builds upon this.  If we allowed people to believe only those things that they wanted to believe, one could go ahead and punch someone in the face, not accepting the physics of that action.  A medical technician could modify the results of someone's blood test, since they "believed" that the results weren't correct. 

We do have room for disagreement in what action ought to be taken on the basis of the projections, for example.  One might be skeptical of the assumptions in a study, and that criticism ought to encourage researchers to improve their work.  But the thinking that we can just "opt out" of science is flawed, and with that as a standard, we could not realistically sustain a society. 

Regarding the "proof" of God, I believe that it's totally possible that one day God may be proven.  On the other hand, we can never ever absolutely disprove the existence of God.  That's just how science works.  It's why I tend to think that to deny the existence of God is itself an act of faith.  But that's a topic for another day, I think. 

Hugs,

Erin

I used to really like rainbows as a kid and was clueless that it was a gay symbol. So were my parents, actually. I had a lot of issues because of this, though didn't realize until quite a bit later.

That said, rainbows are for everyone. They can't be owned by anyone, thus cannot be stolen.

Religion, however, can be stolen by those who want to put a political or personal hateful message to it. I'm agnostic, and not sure if there really was a Jesus, though the Jesus in the Bible seemed like a really cool guy that healed people and was kind to others. Most Preachers and Priests, on the other hand, seem nothing like him...

Quote from: VeronicaLynn on August 07, 2017, 12:52:16 AM
I used to really like rainbows as a kid and was clueless that it was a gay symbol. So were my parents, actually. I had a lot of issues because of this, though didn't realize until quite a bit later.

That said, rainbows are for everyone. They can't be owned by anyone, thus cannot be stolen.

Religion, however, can be stolen by those who want to put a political or personal hateful message to it. I'm agnostic, and not sure if there really was a Jesus, though the Jesus in the Bible seemed like a really cool guy that healed people and was kind to others. Most Preachers and Priests, on the other hand, seem nothing like him...

That's because those are false prophets, not every pastor or bishop or priest is preaching the right thing.

Quote from: Brandon on August 06, 2017, 10:02:11 PM
The evidence is called having faith which you still seem to miss

You seem to have a funny idea about what evidence is.  Belief isn't evidence.

Quote from: Brandon on August 06, 2017, 11:19:51 PM
My mom never forced religion on me or my sister, I went to church from and child till now which I still do but my mom didn't really explain all that to me because she knew I wouldn't understand it.

So, how did you wind up going to church, if your parents didn't take you?  I was dragged to church long before I even knew what it was.  It was only when I was older that I realized what a scam it was.

Locked.

I think this has gone around the Mulberry Tree as long as needs be.

The Christianity Section is for the discussion of Christianity. Let us keep it that way.


Cindy