Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I have read a ton on intersex issues and am seeing an edocrinologist right now because of my "differences". I just wanted to say that some of the intersexed web places feature people jumping on each other or making statements that just don't make sense. Anyway, some of the stuff I have read on here is very kind and accepting, some of it is very good and some of it is just plain brilliant, especially from Taylor.

Regardless of what label they ultimately put on me, I understand how so many just buckle under the pain of not quite fitting into male or female and being told lies their whole lives and being told by doctors or others; "you can't feel this way becuase you're a ....not a ...."

If you saw my picture you would understand in 1 second, what I mean by not fitting in.

A lot of people misconcieve that if you are intersexed you can go out in public as "either a man OR a woman" but for me it has been "neither a man nor a woman". It is tough because in my cabeza I feel like a girl, and about half my body is female, and I have monthly cramps that are right on schedule, but if I go out as a female, people will just think I have lost my mind. Too much man in the face + a lifetime of socialization as a male, yet I don't belong there, at least physically.

If I go out in public as a man, I have this female type of mannerisms, breasts to hide and just get percieved as a gay person or a transsexual, or a "what is that" person, lots of stares.

NO DISRESPECT  at all to gay people or transsexual, (believe me if there was an aversion, I wouldn't be here, ) but what I'm talking about is the right to be percieved as what you think you are in your head, which I think people on this site will readily relate to.

Anyway, I was particularily interested in the one post on here where the person has normal male genitalia, but has female insides, periods etc. You may just have one more sister out there who has the woman parts inside and the man parts outside, we should talk. I am having my cramps this weekend. I thought I was getting them and thought "no way it's just something I ate, or my nerves, then I checked the calendar and sure enough 21 days since the last ones. Somethimes they are 28 days sometimes 21 days, sometimes 30, but they are monthly, and yes from the neck down I look like a lady, with muscularish arms, and a "wackadoo". (some differences there, the outline of a vagina on my penis, with what looks like stretch marks or a scar  at the bottom, when I sit, my scrotum sticks out on the sides like a penis is coming out of vaginal lips, anyone ever hear of that, there are some differences between left and right testicles, and yet I get called a "normal man" by doctors and my mom swears to me that nothing was unusual about my birth and that no surgery was done, so I have no idea about the vagina shaped scar)

I would so like to find a girlfriend to talk with, although people I know are sympathetic, I think they are afraid that I will bite them or something. Shame and secrecy huh?

Anyway, hoping for a kind place to make a pleutonic friend here and for someone to be a good friend to.

I started this journey thinking my body would just eventually go male, and now have a wife who I love more than myself and 4 kids, but the intersex complications were just becoming more than a person could reasonably bear. I had to see a Dr. When he first saw me he almost sent me out the door saying "normal male, severe gynecomastia", but after seeing my hormone panels, his whole attitude got kinder and he knows I am not lying about feeling like a female. He wants to look inside my pevis which I will have done soon.

Anyway, here's to all those who don't wuite fit in but are valuable and special anyway.

Luv
M

No offense, but if you had kids, you are probably not IS.  Infertility is usually part of the package. 

Also if you were born primarily as male and have lived your life up to this point as such and transition to female, you are transsexual.  Intersex condition or not. 

It is common for people to misinterprate a hormonal condition for an intersex condition, but they are not always one in the same.  Did you get the gynecomastia when you were older...because that is not uncommon for males.  I could go on about incomplete and strange and delayed puberties.  Not to discount you entirely, but you should not jump to conclusions so quickly.

no offense taken.

Amy , no offense but Michelle came here looking for someone to speak with to make her feel better.   Until the doctor truly gets to poke around inside... let's assume she is intersexed.

Michelle I hope an IS person connects with you to help you.  I do not have that issue or know enough about it.

Good luck

Daisy

Hello Michelle,
  Sorry it took a while before I got around to answering you. I am IS. My MRI shows that I have one testi, one ovary, a uterus, breasts are B cup and I have a prtial opening behind the sack area and a highly sensitive area above it. My story mirrors yours so much. I presently have 3 kids and a fourth on the way. My doctor said it's 2 things that allowed this and I believe him. One is that with one testi that is healthy it was a hit and miss but I was fortunate enough to produce. Yes this is a rare thing in IS' but it is possible. the second reason he gave (though he isn't overly religious) is just by God's granting. People can say what they want to but I always believe God does grant things science tries but can't explain.
  I do understand your dilemma. You are woman with a malish body from shoulders on up being the most obvious to people. Trust me, once I realized I was not really male as I thought and starting living as the woman I am I felt happier and more at peace as has my wife. You will hear myths but you have to decide what to believe. One thing with me is a great hate for labels. I know people look at my situation and say I am IS. That's their entitlement I guess. I am woman and that is it. I feel labels are part of society being against groups. Marriage can work for us depending on the persons involved of course.
 If you wish to talk feel free to drop a line to me and I will respond.
                                                      Kim   :angel:

Quote from: daisybelle on November 19, 2007, 12:18:34 PM
Amy , no offense but Michelle came here looking for someone to speak with to make her feel better.   Until the doctor truly gets to poke around inside... let's assume she is intersexed.

Michelle I hope an IS person connects with you to help you.  I do not have that issue or know enough about it.

Good luck

Daisy

Amy was just trying to be helpful. A HUGE number of transpeople are convinced they are intersexed when in reality they simply have a perfectly normal, typical body of their birth sex.

Michelle, I pray you find the answers you seek.

I will just pop back in here and say that I don't remember ever stating that I am intersexed, I simply described my body and certain people made the inference.

I am seeing a doctor who will diagnose me.

I have seen a trans- thereapist who told me to see a doctor because I am not trans

I only tried to give a compliment to the level headiness of this site and I still believe that is true.

Question: please see the following article, and tell me are thee people trans just because they were raised as female and then live as men later?

http://www.usrf.org/news/010308-guevedoces.html

do their sister reject them and tell them I don't want anything to do with my brother?
do people tell them they are not intersexed when their bodies have obviously gone the other way
Do their parents tell them how disappointed they are that they "lost thieri daughters?"
Do they get fired from jobs if people find out that they once lived as another role?

Just a thought, maybe our definitions are screwed up not the poor people who scratch their heads and go: " what did I do wrong?"

and yes many tans people are convinced they are intersexed and are incorrect, who cares, they are human and deserve to be treated with total freedom and respect.

Good enough for now and thanks for the level headedness here

I apologize I jumped to that conclusion based on your posting in the Intersex talk forum, and your description.

You life does sound similar to KIM though.   Let us know what the doctors come up with.

Good Luck

Daisy

well, looking back at the post I guess I did infer that I was, but I didn't mean to, I'll only say that my doctor has gone from "totally normal male, severe gyncomastia" to " the size of the breasts and the estrogen levels are very uncommon, not the usual reason for gynecomastia, I want to take some pictures of your insides".

This guy is a really experienced intersex doctor out of Harbor UCLA research facility, so I'm sorry if I made it a forgone conclusion.

still want to make friends,

KIM, wow I will find out how to contact you because regardless of my "condition" we are pretty much in the same circumstances. respect to you, and apologies for any misunderstanding.

M

Michelle,
  I didn't find any misunderstanding in your posts anywhere. I am always happy to help out where I can. Even if they do the tests and find you are not IS you are still woman none the less.
                          Kim   :angel:

Back at ya sis ;)

Thank you, and hang in there. society doesn't seem to have a pigeon hole for the intersexed, but I know my redeemer lives and doesn't make mistakes.

Hugs
Chelle

Question, more for Kim, just want to understand.

You stated you had children, so being intersexed and being able to produce Children is possible as you said you had a viable testes....

What about the ovary?  It seems it is somewhat functioning based upon the hormone level so does it produce eggs?

Please ignore if it is inappropriate to ask... just curious.

Daisy

Hello Daisy,
  My ovary and uterus are both healthy and acoording to the medical doctor, If I had a full opening (vagina) I would have a 65-70% chance of producing. My vagina is only partially open, it is only so deep then it's like there's a wall-I have long fingers and can insert up to middle knuckle. In same aspect, I can orgasm both internally as a woman does basically and also through my penis obviously. If I am intimate through the penis I cannot control which type of orgasm I will have, but if I am intimate with my clitorial area/vagina area I will have internal orgasm,which is the best for me to be honest in terms of satisfaction. I am not shy to talk about my situation because I seem to knock a lot of scientific theories out of the ball park as myths and I love it  :laugh: and by sharing I can help people who are hung up on science as being the whole truth and feel there's no other option but what science says is real. Sure, I admit I may be on the rare side but I am still proof it can happen too so I feel balanced.
        Kim   :angel:

Hey, scientists at one point said the earth was flat....  go knock them all you want.  My brain is boggled over this -- wicked cool!!

I presume you would have to an in-vitro ensemination and then give birth via c-section, but the so did my wife(the c-section part) .   

Anway I will let the other girls and boys ask questions.

Daisy

Funny you mentioned the en-vitro and c section because there is a lab that is going to try that with IS that have the peoper organs to carry such as uterus etc. I stumbled across it last month on a pop up ad and haven't figured out where the dang thing came from before my blocker shut it down on me- they were looking for volunteers to go. Oh well, I am sure it'll surface again.
                                                               Kim   :angel:

Quote from: Michelle F on November 19, 2007, 01:16:19 PM
and yes many tans people are convinced they are intersexed and are incorrect, who cares, they are human and deserve to be treated with total freedom and respect.

No one insinuated otherwise. ???

Well it seems I may have been percieved as "petting the cat backwards?"

I have seen transsexuals put down transvestites
I have seen intersexed people put down transsexuals
I have seen straight people put down gay people

I'm sick of it all.

I merely wanted to clarify my views that I don't care what anyone "is" except whether or not they are kind and as intelligent as they can be. OK?

Now on to another subject if I may, It says on your post that;

" Maribelle Reyes succumbed to AIDS on August 30, 2007 in Houston, TX, after being turned away from several treatment centers due to her transgender status"

Can they really do that? Is it the same in every state? Is there any wonder that I am trying to work with a doctor to show a paper trail for the way I look, when I haven't contributed to my appearance (other than having shoulder length hair and pierced ears) in any way?

I am absolutely terrified that no matter how smart I am or how hard I work I can be refused medical treatment or fired from a job because of the ways the laws are currently written?

I am SOLEY HERE to get an education from people who have been through this before, I am trying to find my own little place of safety in the world.

Last week while totally dressed as a man two women walked by me and said "can you imagine being married to that? You would come home and he would be wearing your clothes".

So I come here to find a little friendship and some people seem to be "grilling" me, telling me not to jump to conclusions and asking what I mean in my posts.

Sorry, I'm usually not so sensitive, but I didn't expect this.

M

Michelle ,

You can talk to me about anything.  I may not understand everything from your point of view, but  I will be honest and compassionate from my point of view.

You need a few hugs so here ---  OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ( Virtual hugs from Daisy  :angel: )

Not sure what to say about those women  >:D who commented on you ---

Let me know if there is anything I can do.

Daisy

BTW --- I like back brushing the kitties --- gets them riled up.

Quote from: Michelle F on November 19, 2007, 09:45:50 PM
Well it seems I may have been percieved as "petting the cat backwards?"

I have seen transsexuals put down transvestites
I have seen intersexed people put down transsexuals
I have seen straight people put down gay people

I'm sick of it all.

I merely wanted to clarify my views that I don't care what anyone "is" except whether or not they are kind and as intelligent as they can be. OK?

Now on to another subject if I may, It says on your post that;

" Maribelle Reyes succumbed to AIDS on August 30, 2007 in Houston, TX, after being turned away from several treatment centers due to her transgender status"

Can they really do that? Is it the same in every state? Is there any wonder that I am trying to work with a doctor to show a paper trail for the way I look, when I haven't contributed to my appearance (other than having shoulder length hair and pierced ears) in any way?

I am absolutely terrified that no matter how smart I am or how hard I work I can be refused medical treatment or fired from a job because of the ways the laws are currently written?

I am SOLEY HERE to get an education from people who have been through this before, I am trying to find my own little place of safety in the world.

Last week while totally dressed as a man two women walked by me and said "can you imagine being married to that? You would come home and he would be wearing your clothes".

So I come here to find a little friendship and some people seem to be "grilling" me, telling me not to jump to conclusions and asking what I mean in my posts.

Sorry, I'm usually not so sensitive, but I didn't expect this.

M

I don't know. I know about Maribelle, Robert Eads, and Tyra Hunter.
Robert Eads was a transman who died of ovarian cancer because no doctor would treat him.
Tyra Hunter was a transwoman who was in a car accident. When her male genitalia was discovered, the paramedics stopped working on her and stood around making jokes.

I don't know about the different state laws. Just that some medical 'professionals' have a problem treating transgendered people.


Please don't feel judged. We've just seen a lot of people here confused about the intersexed thing, that's all. Some hope they are intersexed to justify transition. Nobody's saying that's you, but we've seen it a million times before.

Michelle,
    As I stated before, you are woman no matter what. This is the very reason I hate labels. My advice is to just know you are woman and wait until you get your tests done to find out what you have or haven't got inside you. But as I said at the very least you have the brain of a woman so therefore you are woman. Your body is not what defines your gender, it's your brain. Just be at peace with yourself dear and enjoy the journey forward.
                                                                   Kim   :angel:

First,
Thank you to Daisy, you are a sweetie and I appreciate your hug. Back at ya babe. Second, to Kim, yes I am female, but I am male too. I hope that makes sense.

My dilema is that if I act as a girl with a man body, people's "nut radar" goes up, or them marginalize me. Whereas if I look like a woman, I can still do a lot of masculine things and basically wear ANYTHING I want to.

I already have a body that will pass as quite female, and my mind is right down the middle.

If I let them "fix me" to look male, I will not really be able to be at ease being myself in public, but if I look female, I can be myself all the time. Whether i feel masculine or feminine, it will "fly", provided I don't punch some guy for calling me "honey" . You know what I mean, a little outward, but not too agressive.

I don't have that "If I have to live as a man one day longer I'll kill myself thing", being a man has a LOT of priveledges.

Problem is; I don't really pass as male, or always act like one, and the harassment is getting to me. I am getting too old to just keep ignoring that my body is not a male body, I look like my mom, not my dad. Then there's the monthly cramps, and other things that totally unseat me from my "male" reality.

It's a lot to wrap your brain around.

If it was just about changing some body parts and taking some pills, fine, but i have my personality to think about too.

Anyway, hope that wasn't too hard to understand, and yes it is really nice to be called a "her", and similar to what Kim said, When I finally admitted that there was a female between these ears, life became a lot easier, like I didn't have to pretend I was a man anymore. It became OK, and I quit aging so fast and tearing myself up for not being man enough.

that's all the ranting from my backwards world today, thank you again Daisy-Bell,
Hugs
Michelle

I know exactly what you are saying Michelle and what you find the hard part is the hard part for a lot of us. Funny part for me was when my voice pitched up to where it always should have been, people suddenly pass comments about my posture, my stride, my mannerisms etc etc. They didn't change, just my voice and that sent everyone into a tizzy. The thing you have to figure out is can you let go of your birth gender and live in the role of your actual gender. You already said it felt better for you and if you can pass as the woman you are then that may be where you should be. My situation is hard and I have to be subtle due to my job and my in-laws who don't yet know. So yes, letting go is scary and difficult but I know from my perspective it was the only choice to stop living a lie and be the woman I am, and the day is coming to tell my in-laws too as I find having to hide myself harder and harder to do. I wish you the best on your journey.
  In terms of figuring out your inside body you need to talk to a doctor who understands us. You will then be scheduled for an MRI, a battery of blood tests, and in my case they did a saliva test for hormones. But still, no matter what the results it should not change your journey and destination.
Good luck to you,
                     Kim   :angel:

Hey Ms Kim,

Thanks for the good words. The thing about being honest is so true. It's kind of funny, I (thought) I had some good family members who would understand this, but I haven't talked to a couple of people for almost a year now. It seems that "they don't like those kind of people", and didn't know that I was one for all those years they liked me. Kind of like that line from the song ;

and the sign said long hair creepy people need not apply
so I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
he said; " you look like a fine upstandin young man I think you do"
so I took off my hat, said imagine that, huh, me workin for you.

as to passing for a woman, I think I would need facial feminization. Big bucks, so gotta finish school first. Otherwise yah I would pass. I went to a halloween party as female, and some people didn't know I was dressed up. They just thought I was a lady crashing the party with no costume. Two women actually argued for 10 minutes as to whether I was a woman or not.

The thing is I want to be invisible. If I am to be female, them I darn well better look like one. My life has been hard enough, I want to make it easier not harder yet.

Looks like you are going to need a place to land when you finally tell your in laws. Keep my name in mind. When I told people, I thought they would look at my body and it would be a no brainer, but they said things like, who cares if this is biological or not, why can't you just be a man anyway?

Please keep me in mind if you need to talk when it's time to tackle this one it can be so different than you expect. Then again, it could go really well. You gotta let people have their own thoughts and realize that those may not include acceptance, whether they are right or not.

I do hope it goes so well for you, and I hope I haven't wasted your time stating the obvious.

Luv
M

Luv
M

Posted on: November 20, 2007, 10:09:51 PM

---

Hey Kim,

wanted to show you my pisture so you can see what I mean in the other posts, but need to have 15 posts first, soon I will show you why I am so stressed out,

In the meantime, thanks for the blind faith you have offered.

Hugs
Chelle

No problem Michelle and thank you. Once my mom and brother turned on me I stopped explaining it to people which is why I haven't told my in-laws yet. As for passing, one thing I found is that we are definitely our own worse critic. I am lucky in that from what people say my face passes but I have to cover the dark remnants of shaving mu upper lip real good-it's alwys smooth but dark after I shave. Then again, the women on my dad's side have a bit of shadow too so it could be genetic. I am always here to help out a sister (or in other cases a brother). Ears wide open,
                                          Kim   :angel:

Hey Kim,

Sorry to hear about your mom and brother. Sometimes I wonder if people think "well that's kind of weird that that happened, but what we really care about is how it affects US".

You have a loving relationship with your wife and kids. That covers a ton of other people's ill- actions.

Getting ready for Turkey day tommorow, forgive if I'm out of it for a while. Been studying HARD at school (anatomy and physiology, medical calculations and equations, I'm a nursing student) I need this little vacation. Will catch up soon though

If thats you...you don't look male.  I believe you now...in fact I don't think you can pass as male.  Sorry for the skepticism. 

The truth is I am on the minor side of IS conditions. That does not seem to be the case with you. 

Well it takes a lot of breast binding and creative dressing.
As I said I don't always pass as male, but when I don't, I am percieved as trans, not female, because of the face.

I know I could have 'em cut off, but it wouldn't change my personality.

I don't want to put my family through it, but I FEEL like a girl between the ears.

The doctors never checked my hormones, or my genes, just kept passing me off as
"normal male, severe gynecomastia, excersice and lose weight"

THAT'S  why I'm here, I think I'm going to need some girlfriends to help me with what I never expected to happen to my body.

and yes that is me, no photoshop enhancements or tricks, although I am a little bit skinnier right now.

I look like this but if I dress as female, people just think man with boobs..freak

Thanks for the friendship, yes it is hard to pass as male when you can't grow a beard, have a high voice and don't feel like a man, and you look like this.

Hugs to you and have a very happy thanksgiving
Michelle

You look great Michelle. My pic is 11/2 yrs old now, when I first started my journey and before the body developed as it should (my doc feels my mind was able to block the body from developing right until this time of my life). I find this time of year easiest to be subtle as I can wear baggy sweaters to hide my breasts (now in B cup) and not look out of place. I also find darker colors show less than light colors. I understand what you are saying about a beard as I can't grow one as I have hair growth only to the point of showing but one couldn't do anything. Once I tries to grow a moustache to feel more male but had to comb it over and over to make it look at least close to full. I kind of looked like Wilma in the Flintstones the time she infiltrated thebuffalo club, only with a much smaller stache. I doubt I could ever get a beard no matter how much comb over I do. And body hair is nil. And yes I have had women tell me they would kill for a figure like mine, their words not mine.
    As I said before though, at first I didn't mind being stealth, but slowly it bothered me to the point I just went subtle, which is now causing discomfort too. By subtle I wear light or transparent make-up,slacks and unisex top. I find hair does a lot to the face as to whether you look male or female too.
    One thing I was wondering is how is your wife doing through this, if I'm not being to personal here. Hopefully she's holding in with you.
                                                                Kim   :angel:

Hi Kim,

I will be "out" for a few days for Thanksgiving, but wanted to reply to you before I left. I do relate to what you said aboutfeeling more comfortable in sweaters as they can hide things.

For me this isn't a gender struggle. I just am what I am, some parts of me are male to the point of being a cliche. Other parts of me are so female that it is uncomfortable in public with a male face. Some of that is training, some of that is biology, some of it is a mystery to me.

For me it's more about not hiding things about myself anymore. I go out in public with breasts bound, wearing really loose shirts or a jacket even when it's 70 F outside. I wear two shirts even in summer.I can't even imagine what would happen if I let the "girls" out at one of my college classes like the picture shows. I would definately be the center of attention, but I don't think it would be negative attention, I don't want that.

Back to the honesty thing. I do not want to go back to being 1/2 a person anymore. I am sick of hiding my body, sick of hiding my beauty, sick of hiding my generous kind personality. I just want to be me. For me, that is part female/part male.

I do not want to get rid of "him". but "he" has ruled the roost for 43 years. "he" can still exist in a girl body, but "she" can never exist in a male body. I can't go back into hiding/pretending ever again.

"I" can no longer exist in this body. It has to be fixed one way or the other, either toward male or female 100%. The mind will still be androgenous, but the body/face has to be 100% male or female.

Did that sound like the most skitzophrenic entry ever?

Believe me I am of sound mind, most people just can't imagine having both sexes live under the same roof. It scares the living crud out of me to think that one day people may call me "m'am" instead of sir, but I think pronouns are useless for people like us anyway, yet the world can't live without them.

So much pain to have to bind, disguise, (like I am some kind of dirty little freak) and pretend that I am just like any other man, when it is as plain as my picture that I am not. I especially have a hard time when I am having my monthly pains. I just want to rip open my sweatshirt and reveal my "secret", but I know that is not in my ultimate best intersests. If I go female, it will be by having my face fully feminized and taking anti androgens to get rid of what little muscle I do have. It will be the first time since I was 11 that I will no look like an amalgum of male/female. I wonder what that will be like, then again, I can't wait for the dirty looks, rude comments, and confused looks to stop.

My wife has seen me like this from day one. I never had a child with my first wife (and I practiced a lot). When I married the second time, someone from my church prayed for me (specifically for my testicles, HOW EMBARRASING),  but , the next month my wife was pregnant. My wife and I love each other in our souls, body parts are just embellishment. She loves 100% of me. I am so concerned of doing the best thing for her and she is concerned about doing the best thing for me. It just plays out day to day.

No disrespect to those who are still having trouble with fertility, that's just the way it worked for me.

anyway enough ranting and explaining, gonna eat turkey and let it all go for two days.

Hang in there doll

Chelle

Quote" can no longer exist in this body. It has to be fixed one way or the other, either toward male or female 100%. The mind will still be androgenous, but the body/face has to be 100% male or female.

Michelle,
    Sorry about misunderstanding you but I thought you already knew what gender you really are. First thing you have to do is decide what your gender is. In other words, what gender your brain is. This is only way to be sure for yourself. Once you figure that out then you will know how to 'correct' your body. If you believe you are male then that should be your goal, but if you believe you are woman then that should be your goal. I hope I am not misreading your last entry but I got the impression from it you still aren't sure and are trying to figure it out based on your body. I wish you the best, and as I said, if I misunderstood then I am sorry. I am not trying to be harsh on you, just want to be sure you travel the right direction so you are at peace with yourself.
                Kim   :angel:

Well Kim,

I believe there are more than two genders. I think nature proves that there is physically more than male/female, and I beleive it encompasses the gender aspect of our natures as well. I think that if society acknowledged that we would have a lot less people go through transition and just be themselves without altering their bodies. Nature creates diversity, society creates transsexuals. What I mean by that is that they tell people;"you can't wear makeup unless you are a woman, you can't wear a dress unless you are a woman, you can't do this unless you are a man. So transpeople, men and women, jump through the hoops and then society turns around and says "ewww" you can't work here, you weren't born that way. Poor trans people just can't get a break. Where's the humanity? Now I know that saying that, somewhere a transperson is going to feel like I am taking shots, but if you read what I said carefully I am totally on your side, so try not to get angry. I don't think transpeople are wrong I thing society is wrong.

That is why I say that I feel BOTH male and female, but I feel like if I look like a man, I won't get to excersise any of my femaleness (in public at least). It isn't a gender issue for me. I am just both male and female, physically and genderwise.

I have never touched a hormone in my life, with the exception of soy suppliments for about 6 months. I have heard that they actually help control estrogen. It has helped with some of my mood swings. I definately know it has not affected my breast size as I have measured carefully and they haven't increased one bit.

I have only 2 reasons for thinking about going female full time
1. To make the public staring and mockery stop
2. To be able to be a full person, not 1/2 a person. I am currently living as female at home all the time. But when I go out in public I dress as a man and take off the makeup. It feels like such a ripoff that I can't just be myself, but society doesn't have a slot for people that look like me, so I play the game. I want to stop playing the game. Sure it means that they have "won", by making me fit into their paradigm, but in the end I win because I can be myself, instead of hiding myself.

Someone on here called me trans a few posts back. I guess I see the connection, but unlike a transwoman, I am not laying down my maleness to become female. I never had a maleness to lay down. Most transpeople are not intersexed, and a lot of intersexed people stay in the gender of their upbringing. For me, however, it is too hard to live as male any more. The only way I could do it would be to fake my personality and have my body butchered up and live with scars and be on medication for the rest of my life. I don't want that even if it does mean "giving up my manhood".

Does that make sense to you? As a woman, I can still fix my car, or wear a flannel shirt, or ride a motorcycle, or do just about anything, but as a "man"  I can't talk about a touching moment, wear makeup, wear a dress, talk about sewing cooking, admire a cute blouse in the store or do anything female without paying a huge social price. (And people think it's a "man's world", hah)
It is women who have the right to act just about any way they want to. Who ever heard of men fighting for their "equal rights"? If a man fights for the right to be effiminate, he is seen as a candidate for the DSM, whereas if a woman fights for the right to do masculine things, she is hailed as a modern woman, progressive and a visionary.

Now is my position clear? I just want to be myself. I am not confused about who I am, I am disappointed that it means I have to jump through the hoops to be able to retain a job. I am disappointed that because fo the way my body looks I can be fired from my job without recourse.  Since part of me is feminine, without the help of hormones, then I am considering looking that way (passibly) full time so that I don't have to go through life as a fake or phony anymore.

Hugs to you
Michelle

I understand you Michelle. As I stated I have been living as the woman I am even though I haven't altered my body. I, like you, have a natural female body. With me I have all the inners too and my brain is female. Ok, so someone stuck a twig on me between my legs and used permanent krazy glue so it won't fall off.  As I stated, I am very subtle when around my in-laws or at work (we do contract work so it's not my employer but those we serve that I worry about). However, living duo for me has become extremely wearisome and I and my wife are talking about how to handle things now with her family. I have no intention to have GRS as I have my body etc. but living duo to satisfy others is too much. If one feels they are both genders and can live in the middle I commend them for they are stronger than I. If this is what you are saying Michelle then I commend you as well. This is a new concept to me to hear one say they are both but I am always open to learning. Thank you,
      Kim   :angel:

Kim Said:

"However, living duo for me has become extremely wearisome "

Now you got me girlfriend. You see I knew I could actually communicate if I kept at it, even as blond as I am.  :P

It's like going 60 miles an hour and then throwing your car in reverse GRIND!!!

Oh yah, if I didn't mention this as a reason for going over the fence to full time female, that is it.

I feel so comfortable in girl mode, and then gotta "take myself apart" to go get my kids from school, go to the store, etc.

It is really really old.

Like you I don't intend to get my plumbing changed, but let me tell you I have thought about it just for the psycological part of it. I have lived one half of my life "concealing things" and wonder if I'm just going to trade one kind of hiding for another.

They do a pretty good job

had a link here, but not sure if I could have posted it. Better safe than sorry. If you want it I would be happy to private e-mail it to you.

surprisingly, when I talked to my sife about it and showed her the pictures, and told her I don't know if I could ever do that, she said, "let's just see how it all works out"....hmmmm. I always knew she was kind of a tom-boy but.... :P

Anyway, once again, my overiding motivation is not a gender conflict, but a somatic conflict coupled with an extreme comfort living in the female role.

I'm sure this will all work out.

As to your in-laws, life is short and I've considered these things. I am worried about people who may not be here in 5 years, but ( God forbiding a tragedy) I have about 30 to 40 more years  here. That's too long to live in torment and the weird stares of others.

Thank you sis
Chelle

Okie dokie, Now I am on the same topic as you. I should've been blonde. But I do have a pilot's license for flying off in the wrong direction at times!!   :laugh:.. The reason I am keeping that twig thingy is for my wife, at least it saves on the debate of who wears the strap-on!!  :laugh: Oh, and it does great for a hat rack too of course!! Seriously, even if I wanted surgery I'd have to travel at least 2 provinces over to just find an MD, then I'd have to do same for therapist, which is 12 months of travelling and then surgery in said province etc etc-my province is too liberal minded for them folks to be found in!!And as for relocating there myself to save travel, well the cost of living is wayyyyyyyy higher than it is here. For example, our house here we paid 100 grand for is worth at least 300 or 400 grand there. But since that twig is the only male part I own I just learned to ignore it and be the woman I am. I do believe keeping it helps keep a marriage as well since it makes the wife feel she's also with a man when being intimate. But I have never felt like a man,even before I realized what I am and accepted it. I just thought I was loonie toons for sure until my mind let go and it flooded in to me and us of course. As I said before, I have no quams with people e-mailing me in private. I always like helping others and sharing with them. Take care and keep in touch, best of luck,
                         Kim  :angel:

Hey Kim,

Quick question for you, I think I read a few posts back that you have a vagina too?

If I am wrong, then my next question will seem odd, but if I am right my question is; since your mom knows about this ( as I assume you would have to know about your child) how can she be giving you trouble? (you said your brother was too.) What rejection!!

I have heard about people born with ambiguous genitalia getting trouble from the parents when they announce that their gender does not match the assignment, but I've never understood it. I have an aquantance who has a vagina and a very small penis, got hair on the chest and grew a beard at puberty. raised female, but looked like a man in drag. When she got sick of it and decided to live as male the mother said "my daughter is going through a stage", the other sister accosted her. I'm thinking; what's wrong with these people? While they're calling us "nuts", do they realize how crazy their actions are? (rhetorical question of course)

At least with me, my parts outside appear male, but inside appear to be female (cat scan soon to confirm this). So I can see my family being confused by me saying "surprise, it's a girl".

I showed them pictures of my body ( I sent them the one in my avatar) and explained my conflict to which some of them replied; "you are my brother and I don't want anything to do with you as a sister". my thought is; since I didn't have a choice in the matter, what gives YOU ONE?

Anyway, wanted to clarify if your family knew about your intersex condition all along, or as with me you hid things in shame and secrecy so it was a bit of a surprise to them?

Here's to deciding for ourselves what to do with this...

Thanks
M

Yes it is true I have a partial vagina behind the sack. It only goes in so deep but does not go all the way. In other words, I can insert a finger up to the middle knuckle. And yes there are nerve endings inside it too. As for my mom not knowing I don't know if it's more denial than truth or what. I mean I didn't buy this at the garden center and plant it there or something, it was there all my life. Maybe she thinks it's a magical tatoo or something  :laugh: . Who knows what went on back when I was born. As for hiding my IS from them, I didn't do so intentionally. My mind took over and hid things even from me after I was raped by an uncle at age 20. I had TG friends before and I think looking back I was about to deal with myself being TG in some manner but at time not sure. The rape threw everything into a tither obviously. My mind working through the subconcious supressed and supressed some more, so even I didn't know as per se. Since then I always thought I was just nuts and a sex addict. I could make love and want to make love again and again, as good as it could be I was never satisfied. I lost memories of my childhood from age 16 back, and the more my mind supressed my true self it inadvertantly supressed my characteristics and personality since they were attached to that true self. So I aped other 'men' around me and tried to be like them to pass, but I didn't actually realize what I was doing. I just knew of course I had changed but didn't understand why. Same thing too, some things the mind couldn't supress such as my cramps and mood swings, but I didn't know what was going on and I was confused. Ok, thaat's my condensed version of why I felt I can honestly say I didn't intentionally hide my being IS from family members. :)
                                                        Kim  :angel:

Hey Kimster,

I didn't so much wonder if you hid it from them as that they hid it from you.

I am truly sorry for the difficulties you have had getting your mind wrapped around this, and believe me I understand. It looks like you are getting ahold of it now. Good for you. go go go!

My boobs did not fully develop until I was 19, being that I started puberty at 14, 5 years is about right.But I left home at 17, so no one knew about my condition, as I hid it in shame. I did tell my mom that I felt like a girl when I was 4, and my dad was forever telling me "boys dont do/dress/act like that".

Still, I don't know how they missed it since everyone at school seemed to notice and called me a faggot and told me to get a bra, etc, you can imagine.

Yay anyway!

When you are told your whole life that you are a man, you just kind of believe it. Even when you have monthly cramps, you tell yourself it's ulcers. When you get boobs, you tell yourself you can work out enough till it goes away. When you do things that are girlish, you rationalize "every man has a feminine side." Still, when lesbians are attracted to you, maybe one should have a little clue, but like you, I kept trying to be what I was told I was.

Once again, you seem to be getting it together and seem very clear about what you need to do. That is worth a million bucks. I know "regular" people who don't have that gift yet.

And yes thank God for our wives who love us, I know "regular" people who don't have that gift. I am also grateful for my children. I couldn't have kids for a long time (9 yrs), but one day a lady at my church prayed for us (without being asked she came up and prayed for my wife and I specifically for my testicles to produce, HOW EMBARASSING) but the next moth my wife got pregnant. Hmm. Little micracle kids I think. And yes, I am a good mom AND dad.

Anyway, chow for now
M

Hey Chelle,
   Yes, we seem to be on the same plaine. My childhood memories are flooding back since all this started. The docs stated that one's mind can only go so long working the way mine did to keep it all in line so to speak and then it has to release it's hold and everything comes flooding in. I now realize that from age 6 (at least) I knew I was a girl and got caught a few times. As for our treasures (AKA our kids  :) ), I have said all along that there's one scientist whom nobody fully knows the power of, God. And what he desires us to have we shall have - we just have to open our arms and aceept His gift, not to sound too relgious there. My breasts have been developing for about 10 months, and I am not sure how long it takes for them to finish growing. If thye wanna keep growing I'll keep celebrating it. I don't know how much my parents knew of my IS when I was born, but I know there was never any mention of it all my life and my mom (the dominate one) always tried to stop me from being a girl as I grew up and got caught dressing or acting fem,and wouldn't entertain my getting a doll for Christmas either. She's a black and white world type of person - in other words you are either male or female and there's nothing in between. I don't hold it against them, I just feel pity for people like that. An open mind is a great blessing I always say. And thank you for your words of support, and anything I can do for you to help feel free to load. Oh, I meant to mention that the IS I converse with a lot (I mentioned her earlier to you I believe) also has a partial vagina- but it's so narrow she can't get a finger in without a great amount of pain, even with lube. So I am not the only one in existence. Talk to you soon,
                                                   Kim   :angel:
(Know that my prayers are with you and your wife and children for a peaceful journey through all this)

Hey Kim,

You can "sound too religious" with me anytime you want to. Although I think there  is another forum for that, it's sad that people feel like they might offend someone talking about good things like God.

As to your breasts growing, I have heard it takes about 4 years or maybe a little more for them to fully mature, I only know about me. Then I have heard of women growing a full cup or more after menopause.

When people accuse me of taking HRT to look this way I say 1. My arms are still muscular so I didn't take any anti androgens, and 2.my mom is a triple H cup, My sister is a G cup (and both of them had reductions) They say that if you are on full HRT, your boobs will get within about a cup size of of your mom or sister, and I'm not quite that big....ouch.

Anyway, yes to the blessing of children, but I remember considering adoption.I remember the pain of trying for so long and getting no response. I remember the pain of people asking if I was shooting blanks, and I remember how people use it as a way of one-upping childless couples, I don't want to come across that way. I simply say that I am thankful. Not better, not worse than anyone else, just thankful for what I have.

Too bad about your mom. my sister hasn't spoken to me for a year now and my birth father has not returned a call or a letter in a year either. It's like everything goes into a black hole and never comes out.

The truth is that most people do the very best they can and they just think they are right. I cannot control how people feel. I do, however, feel less human, being castigated for something that I did not create. My mom did apoligize that she didn't take me to the dr. or something when I was young, which kind of makes me wonder since I do have some scars "down there". But I told her: some people are men, some people are women, and some people are hermaphrodites. You wouldn't feel guilty that I was born a man, or a woman, why feel guilty that I was born a hermaphrodite. (and yes I know people hate the "H" word, I apologize) My mom and I get along great, and one of my sisters and I get along great. My brother cried, because he used to make fun of my boobs. I finally revealed myself to an aunt when I told her why I wouldn't come for Thanksgiving, I just need a year or so to work through things for myself. She was really nice, and said "quite a good trick a girl getting another girl pregnant. I don't make the rules, evidently I just break them  :-\

The way I look at this, revealing this about yourself gives you a magic window into people's souls. You find out real quick who is shallow, who is true, who is kind and who is cold. They think that I am telling them something about me, but the truth is that they tell me far more about themselves. After all, I'm talking anatomy, but they are showing their souls. End the end everyone around you is very kind and the cold people go away. Nice.

Enough for today, I gotta get ready for school in the morning. I got all my shots for my nursing program today and they stuck me so full of holes I'll leak when I drink a glass of water.  :P

Take care of yourself and yours
Luv
M

The dopiness on my part was thinking that since it's all there in full view (looks, breasts etc)and it's all on my MRI nobody could say it's all in my mind and not real and therefore there should be no problem with acceptance. As I said before, I have my pilot's licence for flyin in the wrong direction and this was one of those times. I've heard them say that the tests were mixed up, I've heard them say it's impossible because my body is fully grown and there's no room to grow new organs (like that's what I did) etc. As a famous philosopher has declared and I agree whole heartedly, "D'OH" . I just learn to live and let live, life is too short to do otherwise.
                                                           Kim   :angel:

Kim Said:

"The dopiness on my part was thinking that since it's all there in full view (looks, breasts etc)and it's all on my MRI nobody could say it's all in my mind and not real and therefore there should be no problem with acceptance."

Yup, yup yup.

I showed the picture in this avatar to my family and explained all the emotions and physical stuff that I had been hiding, to which my sister replied: "so what if it's biological, why can't you just be a man?"

Funny logic, if I have breasts removed, go on testosterone to promote masculine characteristics, and deny my true personality, thats NOT TRANS, but if I have my face feminized, cut off my testoterone, and wear MY OWN boobs in a bra that IS TRANS?

So much for those who think that being intersexed will give you some kind of acceptance from the critics, it usually doesn't becuase most people are more concerned about how your situation affects them and not really concerned with the way it has made the recipient live a lifetime of confusion and self depreciation.

Just a thought before I take off my pink t-shirt and earings and go out and pretend I'm a dude one  more time today.

Hugs

Chelle

QuoteI showed the picture in this avatar to my family and explained all the emotions and physical stuff that I had been hiding, to which my sister replied: "so what if it's biological, why can't you just be a man?"

I would reply, " And how would you have me do this?"

Any response, to that would be, "Why don't you do the same?"

Expected response from her would be, "Because I am a woman!"

And your response should be: "Apparently my body is telling me the same thing."

I feel for you both --- wish I knew how to make you feel better.

HUGS

Daisy

Well, as Kim said, life is just too short. You start reasoning with these people and you suddenly realize; even if they accept you, it's just going to be as damaged goods anyway. Who needs that?

In the end you find yourself surrounded by only kind people because the jerks went away, oh , and if you have a nieghbor that kind of bugs and you wish they would go away, tell them about this...it does WONDERS for your privacy ;D

Thank you Daisy, hope those around you treat you well.

hugs

Chelle

LOL. Never thought about it being used to get rid of all those pesky people you just can't shake. As for feelings Daisy, I am happy being who I am and ecstatic my wife stayed and even promotes my growth through this. I have no bad feelings, even when people turn against me. As I said, if they don't want to be a part of my life with me being the woman I am then it's their closeness of mind and it's a waste to try to convert them, and wastes far too much time if I feel bad about their decision. I just feel sorry for them and move on. It's the best way I feel. I think after 3 years of counselling for my rape during which time I took a life skills program I learned a whole new world which is beautiful. I believe in everyone's road a fork appears every so often and most times we can choose whether to travel beside beauty on a semi- smooth road or on the other where its all beat up fields with no trees, just bleakness and the road is full of dips and potholes. Only difference between me and other people is that I learned how to control my life so I stay on the better road (or as a famous poet said, the road less traveled). Just my opinion, not trying to condemn anyone here. God bless you and you too Chelle and may you have a good journey in your transitioning,
                                  Kim  :angel:

Hey Ms Kim.

I thought I would change my avatar for one day so you could see the whole me. As you can see, close but not close enough to just be left alone in public.

Well, that's it for one day. I just thought since you were bold enough to post your pic, I would return the respect. I have tried to go out in public like this, but people pick up real quick that something is not quite right.

That's the bummer of intersex, a little bit of one, a little bit of the other, nothing of just one. Oh well, at least our spouses understand anyway

Hugs
Michelle

Posted on: November 27, 2007, 10:04:47 PM

---

By the way, Daisy, the picture was meant for you too. I had some "liquid courage tonight" and no slight was intended by not mentioning your name. I just slipped.

I guess I also had a little liquid "insensitivity" too.

Sometimes it helps, for a while at least.

Thanks
M

Chelle,
    I'd say you could pass as female and I don't do liquid intensifiers!! LOL
Honestly, you do look fem. You are lucky in that you can grow your hair. For me, my job deems me male and my hair must be military style if you know what I mean. Same thing as piercing my ears, you have to leave the studs in so long and males aren't allowed to wear earrings while on duty (by-law enforcement/security detail). But you do look good girl. I know confidence is hard to build up in all this. And yes it does seem that when trying to pass in public that everyone who is looking at that guy falling off the ladder behind you while his paint can lands over his head are actually looking at you and pointing. You have it going for you girl.  :icon_bunch:
                                                                     Kim   :angel:

PS watch this commercial for a good laugh    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U92-IxNB1Y  and you'll see how people can be too!!LOL

Hey Kim

First of all thank you. I don't know, when you're in the line at Starbucks and the lady in front of you says to the guy she's with "is that a GUY" (pronouned ewwww) You gotta problem no matter what the guy falling off the ladder might be doing (relating to your post)

Like I said, some people never even look some people just don't care, and there are some people who do care, will be able to tell, and are willing to put on some serious harm to "different" people like me. Some people call me mam, some people act like I'm invisible and minimize me, and some people are ready to start WW3.

That's why I am looking into having my face worked on,  want to be invisible. I am sending my pics to the guy this week for a free consultation. Then there's that little issue of $ :-\

By the way, I understand about the job thing. That's why I am going to school, gotta get away.

The reason I posted the pic was because someone said in an earlier post "If that is you", and I wanted to show that yah, lot of feminine there, but not going to pass every day. I'll change the picture back tommorow because I like my anonymity. >:D

Canadian security firms huh? I'm sure there's a Eugene Levy movie in there somewhere!!

Hugs
M

Hey Michelle,
   I know what you mean about people, there are those like my Mom who aren't happy unless they can cause trouble for someone. I don't know, if I were in a bar and saw you I'd buy you a drink thinking you are female and ask for a dance or 2 or 3 etc etc. You are photo genic (I think that's how it's spelled). But alas, I agree there will be people out there that may notice or suspect. But if you seen some of the women I met who are gentic female I tell you these judges out there must be in overdrive debating who's who. We just have to trudge through it all. As long as we and our wives are happy is all that really matters.
                      Kim  :angel:

Buy me a drink huh?

That's how I got into trouble posting my picture last night. There were a little Thanksgiving leftovers and there went the inhibitions. (BTW, thanks for the compliment)

Sorry to hear your mom is like that. I know a person who was raised as a woman, but everyone thought she was just a man in drag so she began living as male. Grew a nice beard and everything (I am talking about an IS person), no breasts, hair on the chest, tiny penis, and went "she" went to "he" the sister and mom disowned them. When the mom recently died, the sister refused to let this person visit the deathbed.

That, Daisy, is why I don't fight it anymore. Sometimes the best punishment you can give a difficult person is to let them be with themselves. The best punishment you can give yourself is to try to change them and accomidate them.

Hey Kim one more thing, I don't dance...

Cheers
Chelle

Ok Chelle,
  If Thanksgiving leftovers tossed out your inhibitions I have but one question. What the heck do you cook your turkey in girl?? :icon_lol:

QuoteThat, Daisy, is why I don't fight it anymore. Sometimes the best punishment you can give a difficult person is to let them be with themselves. The best punishment you can give yourself is to try to change them and accomidate them.

--- EXACTLY
    :icon_wave:  for now
                           Kim   :angel:   :icon_hug:
 

 

QuoteThat, Daisy, is why I don't fight it anymore. Sometimes the best punishment you can give a difficult person is to let them be with themselves. The best punishment you can give yourself is to try to change them and accomidate them.

:angel: I can kinda relate in the opposite too...

I had a best-friend that the first time I met his girlfriend --- I said, "You better watch it or you will be engaged in 6 months!"  I was wrong it was only two.

Then when he divorced her he was married in six months again.

Divorced a few years later..... he is also my business partner...  I told him you do it again and I will come after you with a TWO by FOUR.   

You see those women interfere ( especially when divorcing ) in his judgment for business----- So I did I won't fight it any more --- next time he mentions marriage  --- :police: I will KNOCK some SENSE into him.... :police:

Do not take this wrong... No matter what you do or not do --- someone will disapprove?  Your stance seems to be : Forget them - They are not worth the effort.

That should work.   :angel:

In my case above... It is worth the effort not to have to have him deal with another wife.

LOL  ;D

Daisy

Daisy-girl,


Well, in that it is a business partner and the girls tend to go for the wallet in a divorce, I think you have a real reason to step in.

In my case I was married 5 weeks after I met my wife, and we have only fought about 3 times in 13 years. And yes we fought fairly. Sometimes you just know.

However, I would talk to a good $400.00 an hour lawyer about how to protect yourself in case your partner does this again, and I would consider plan B after this event. (I had my own business for 12 years, it was easier to make my own money than to wait for someone else to see past my skin and realize I was worth something)

just a thought
M

and PS, it wasn't what I cooked in the Turkey that was left over, it was what I washed it down with. d'oh

Me -- I knew my wife was a gem from the moment I saw her.  What I failed to realize is the environment she grew up in.  At one point she was taking Graphic Design and doing great.  Her mother said, "Who would have ever thought she would be good with computers?"

I was livid, at every turn her parents demoralize her, and knock out every bit of confidence.  Now as they are getting older instead of her working, she plays chaffeur and nursemaid to them.  It is really quite annoying.

And then this gets me --- her father goes out of the country on his own for his hobby - birdwatching.  So her mother who lives only 20 minutes away moves in.   ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!  And then she pays expenses to have my wife go on trips with her wherever(when her husband is out of the country).  However,  the focus on anyplace she is at is to shop, and she gets mad at my wife when my wife  does not go into  stores with her ( we do not have the money to frivously shop ).

Going to have to put my foot down soon.

Daisy