Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi everyone. There seems to be this argument that we don't need to transition. I find that confusing simply because there have been people who committed suicide as a result of not being able to.

So, where do you think this argument comes from that we don't need to transition or that it's not "medically necessary?"

Well, as the saying goes, YMMV: your mileage may vary. 

It is true that some people don't feel the need to transition.  They are happy knowing their identity and maybe having a few trusted friends or family members know it.  For them, the down side of transitions outweighs the up side.

That is certainly not true for me.  I needed to transition, at least socially, and, as it turned out, physically as well.  Each of us has different needs.

For someone that has that need, not being able to act on it would be source of frustration.  I can see that, in some cases, it could build to the point of suicide.  For others that don't have that need, that level of frustration is unlikely.

If someone said that none of us needed to transition just because there are some people who don't, they would be dead wrong.  Some of us do need to transition.  But if someone said that we all need to transition or we aren't really trans, they would be just as wrong.

Quote from: CosmicJoke on December 03, 2024, 02:34:37 PMHi everyone. There seems to be this argument that we don't need to transition. I find that confusing simply because there have been people who committed suicide as a result of not being able to.

So, where do you think this argument comes from that we don't need to transition or that it's not "medically necessary?"

This argument originates from the conservative belief that gender dysphoria is imaginary, or that we pursue this path for erotic stimulation. Despite much scientific literature, there still isn't any robust official statement to dispel the conservative belief. With the general lack of understanding, it is easier for the general public to accept the conservative view.

I resisted transition with every ounce of my will, and fought dysphoria for 65 years. I was determined not to transition, but the lifelong conflict destroyed my health. I was not suicidal, I was physically overwhelmed by stress. Even when my doctor told me my only way to survive was to transition, I resisted. It was only when I realised I was close to the end that I agreed to start HRT, and it immediately cured my symptoms. The only choice I had was transition or death, which simply isn't a choice. I know very few trans people get to this stage, but I am very stubborn, and fought this for a lifetime, so I pushed this to its ultimate end. I now realise that transition, is not a 'want', but an absolute need.

Hugs,

Allie

Quote from: CosmicJoke on December 03, 2024, 02:34:37 PMHi everyone. There seems to be this argument that we don't need to transition. I find that confusing simply because there have been people who committed suicide as a result of not being able to.

So, where do you think this argument comes from that we don't need to transition or that it's not "medically necessary?"

I've debated this with a dearly-loved one before my wife came out. She is familiar with her own gender identity issues, but COULD NOT imagine EVER considering surgery or hormones as solutions. She has the idea of solving the problem by changing society to recognize and support all genders. My wife can't keep waiting for that to happen, and that doesn't address the whole matter, as you know.

I often read in certain forums that some people declare that no one needs to transition. They seem to be completely unaware of the suicide issue, and that the major medical societies agree that transition is medically necessary and works. Spread the word!

Quote from: Moonflower on December 03, 2024, 04:11:50 PMShe has the idea of solving the problem by changing society to recognize and support all genders.

That doesn't make the need to transition (for those of us who experience that need) go away.  It is all very well, for example, to say that society should accept feminine men.  And it should.  But that wouldn't have helped me.  I wasn't a feminine man. I was a woman.  No amount of change in society would have eliminated my need to transition.

I did, and do, need society to change to be more accepting, but that is quite independent of the need to transition.

Hi Everyone

CosmicJoke has certainly posed a thought provoking question: "How can some people say we don't need to do this?" One way to approach this is with another question: "How long is a piece of string?" The answer, of course, depends on measuring it, a process that involves directly measuring 'the piece of string' to determine its length.

Similarly, when people say, "we don't need to do this," the real answer lies in asking them why they believe that.  Their reasons might vary greatly, perhaps stemming from a lack of understanding, societies biases, or personal experiences.  Only by engaging with these individuals and understanding their perspectives can we uncover the root cause of such beliefs.

The question raises important points about the perception of transitioning and its necessity.  Below are some possible answers:

• Some argue that gender affirming care isn't "medically necessary" because they fail to understand the profound psychological and emotional distress caused by gender dysphoria, This distress can lead to severe mental health issues like depression or suicidal ideation, which can result from being unable to transition.
• People unfamiliar with the lived experiences of transgender individuals may not recognize the serious implications of such distress. This distress often stems from societies refusal to accept that some people do not conform to traditional gender norms, demanding that others follow their perceived view of the world.
• Some may believe that gender dysphoria can be managed through therapy alone, without medical intervention, like transitioning.  However, this view overlooks that for many individuals, transitioning is the most effective and sometimes the only way to alleviate their gender dysphoria.
• The argument may also stem from societies bias against transgender people, where transitioning is viewed as a choice rather than a necessity, dismissing the medical and psychological evidence that supports the benefits of transition related care.
• In some cases, claims that transitioning is unnecessary are driven by financial or political agendas, such as insurance companies or policymakers attempting to justify limiting coverage for gender affirming care.
• Some people might hold philosophical or religious beliefs that reject transitioning as a solution, advocating instead for acceptance of one's assigned gender at birth, regardless of the individual's needs or experiences.
• In the past, gender affirming care was less understood and harder to access, reinforcing the belief that transitioning is optional or unnecessary. While medical advances and stories from transgender individuals have changed this view, some people still hold onto these outdated ideas.
• Some individuals with gender dysphoria may not feel the need to transition or may manage dysphoria without medical interventions. While this leads to generalizations that transitioning is not necessary for everyone, even though it is essential for many.
• Finally, They don't care. They don't care what other people's experiences are. They don't care about anyone else but themselves.

The struggle to understand and accept gender identity is deeply rooted in fear, uncertainty, and ignorance, elements that have been manipulated by those in power for centuries.  This isn't just about politics, it's about how individuals and society cope with things that challenge their preconceived notions.  Many fail to realize that gender dysphoria is not a choice, but a condition one is born with, regardless of the mechanisms involved.

The difficulty some people face in accepting this stems from the disruption it causes to their own worldview.  Take, for instance, a wife's reaction to her partner's transition.  Her reaction isn't necessarily about her partner, but about how the transition challenges her sense of normalcy, which is often rooted in traditional views of male/female relationships.  Her reliance on these concepts for her own sense of stability and identity can make any deviation seem like a threat.  Rather than seeking understanding, some may resort to defence mechanisms to protect their way of life, even at the expense of the happiness of those around them.

Ultimately, as hard as it may be, sometimes it's necessary to acknowledge that people may not understand or accept what they are not experiencing themselves.  For a partner, family, or loved one, the transition can feel like an attack on their own identity and that is often difficult to process.

It's crucial, then, to recognize when it might be healthier for everyone involved to step away and find the love and understanding they truly need, rather than staying in a relationship or situation where resentment and misunderstanding grow.  This is not a failure, but a recognition of the need for personal and emotional growth for both individuals.

Ultimately, much like measuring the string to understand its length, understanding the necessity of transitioning requires stepping beyond assumptions and engaging with the lived experiences of transgender individuals.

So long story short, people or groups of people feel threatened because we do not conform to their world views and in our society there is always someone who want to control others and in particular us, because we are vulnerable.

Best Wishes Always
Sarah B
Global Moderator
PS  It must be noted that some of the concluding paragraphs are based on a post made by Sephirah in MsLeigh's Story (https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,249373.msg2286320.html#msg2286320)
@Sephirah

@Sarah B

I would add to that list...

9. They don't care. They don't care what other people's experiences are. They don't care about anyone else but themselves.

As you pointed out, in relationships (marriage, sibling, or parent/child), it threatens them. They don't care about the anguish felt by others. And because they don't experience it themselves, they shake their head and drink their beer. There are exceptions, of course. When true love is involved, it is natural to want to try and understand. Sadly, most people seem to be too self-absorbed, or too phone-absorbed to bother with exercising their brain. Trying to learn and really understand requires work. It requires thinking, and as Wallace Wattles once said...

There is no labor from which most people shrink as they do from that of sustained and consecutive thought; it is the hardest work in the world.

~ Wallace D. Wattles, The Science of Getting Rich (1910)

Hi Lori

Very good point so I have added yours to the list.

Hugs
Sarah B
@Lori Dee

Quote from: CosmicJoke on December 03, 2024, 02:34:37 PMHi everyone. There seems to be this argument that we don't need to transition. I find that confusing simply because there have been people who committed suicide as a result of not being able to.

So, where do you think this argument comes from that we don't need to transition or that it's not "medically necessary?"

The answer to this is really very simple. It's not confusing, it's just a case of understanding how people work. When someone talks about what you can or can't do, they're basing it entirely on what they can or can't do. People see everyone around them as mirrors of themselves. And because they cannot understand what would drive someone to reach a point in their lives which would cause them to seek to transition... these people believe it is an impossibility. Who we are... is only ever a projection of what people around us see. At least as far as they are concerned.

Because you don't understand something means it doesn't exist. That's the predominant way of thinking. That and "I don't want it to exist because I'm happy in my own little bubble and I don't want to have to think outside of that."

As long as you understand that how people treat you is not based on you whatsoever, it's based on them, and how they see the world, then what they think ceases to matter in the grand scheme of things. Because there's very little you can do to change that. You just have to see yourself, and live accordingly. Something quite rare, but precious. :)

Quote from: CosmicJoke on December 03, 2024, 02:34:37 PMSo, where do you think this argument comes from that we don't need to transition or that it's not "medically necessary?"

Once upon a time I didn't think that I needed to transition and I had no idea of any sort of medically necessary need. Which is pretty ridiculous considering where my life was at that point. What changed it for me was a bunch of education about gender.

So I would say that the argument stems out of ignorance. Sadly many ignorant people, such as I was, don't understand their level of ignorance, and actually think they understand things pretty well.

Some people are idiots.. 'nuf said!..

Before the internet, people believed that stupidity was due to a lack of information.

Yeah, it wasn't that.

We are a small misunderstand target progress is very slow, but it does occur. I find that this life can be very lonely, I'm afraid of someone hurting me. I almost feel like I've isolated myself more.

Quote from: SoupSarah on December 07, 2024, 08:14:53 PMSome people are idiots.. 'nuf said!..

No, that's really not a fair thing to say. And that's what a lot of people say about us. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You have to understand why people feel the way they do. Not just write them off as being less than.

Quote from: Nadine Spirit on December 07, 2024, 06:29:53 PMSo I would say that the argument stems out of ignorance. Sadly many ignorant people, such as I was, don't understand their level of ignorance, and actually think they understand things pretty well.

Wilful ignorance is a thing. Some people bury their heads in the sand because it's just easier for them. They don't want to get it. Some people don't understand because it's outside their scope of experience. Some people don't want to understand because it's outside their comfort zone. They are not idiots. They are different. Understanding these differences and trying to work through them is how we all benefit.

^this 100

QuoteThey are not idiots.

I can sympathize with this.I remember being in a circle of computer programers in my college days, and those exact words "they are idiots" were their sentiments about doctor's, lawyer's, scientist, and any other exceptional profession known to men. Just because those that they were referencing didn't know or cared about how to code.

Quote from: Sephirah on December 08, 2024, 03:53:37 PMNo

I reject your reality and replace it with my own.. Some people ARE idiots...

As a general and very gentle point, can we try not to use the phrase 'committing suicide'?

That phrase goes back to the idea that it's a sin. People commit a crime.

In the awful instance that someone takes that desperate step, and I know this all too close to home, they 'take their life' or an equivalent.

xx

Quote from: Tills on December 19, 2024, 12:52:16 AMAs a general and very gentle point, can we try not to use the phrase 'committing suicide'?

That phrase goes back to the idea that it's a sin. People commit a crime.

In the awful instance that someone takes that desperate step, and I know this all too close to home, they 'take their life' or an equivalent.

xx

I don't think it's usually treated as an appropriate topic. I just said "some people have committed suicide" because "killed themselves" might have been too bold for some people.

Honestly, I believe the doubt about our need would have stopped if the mentioned suicides had also stopped after transition. It's a sad fact that not everyone avoids the urge to kill themselves after transition. I wish it were 100% "happily ever after" but we continue to live in the real world and continue to face imperfections in life. Honestly, I have met some sisters who seem to have very unrealistic expectations about things, and I worry about them.

     {moderated and edited by the Forum Administrator}

I agree that it is not 100% "happily ever after". But when you have bad actors take a tiny minority of the population, or even a single incident, and blow it up out of proportion, it is clear that the motivation is mostly political.

The transgender people of the entire world are estimated to be less than 1% of the population. Of those, only a percentage elect to have surgery, and of those that do, less than 1% are dissatisfied or detransition. I'll let you do the math and figure out how much is 1% of 1% of the population.

"Rate of regret after GAS is approximately 1%. Other life decisions, such as having children and getting a tattoo have regret rates of 7% and 16.2%, respectively.

... [of patients having plastic surgery] The percentage of patients reporting regret ranged from 0 to 47.1% in breast reconstruction, 5.1 – 9.1% in breast augmentation, and 10.82 – 33.3% in body contouring. In other surgical subspecialties, 30% of patients experience regret following prostatectomy and up to 19.5% following bariatric surgery."

Source: A systematic review of patient regret after surgery- A common phenomenon in many specialties but rare within gender-affirmation surgery by Sarah M. Thornton ∙ Armin Edalatpour ∙ Katherine M. Gast, The American Journal of Surgery, August 2024.
 
https://www.americanjournalofsurgery.com/article/S0002-9610(24)00238-1/abstract

They do not understand.

Precisely. I will also added that another piece comes to mind is they people live x number of years without doing something and assume if people can do that, then can do that for the rest of their life. It's a false assumption, but part of that world view thought. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Sephirah on December 07, 2024, 05:22:43 PMThe answer to this is really very simple. It's not confusing, it's just a case of understanding how people work. When someone talks about what you can or can't do, they're basing it entirely on what they can or can't do. People see everyone around them as mirrors of themselves. And because they cannot understand what would drive someone to reach a point in their lives which would cause them to seek to transition... these people believe it is an impossibility. Who we are... is only ever a projection of what people around us see. At least as far as they are concerned.

Because you don't understand something means it doesn't exist. That's the predominant way of thinking. That and "I don't want it to exist because I'm happy in my own little bubble and I don't want to have to think outside of that."

As long as you understand that how people treat you is not based on you whatsoever, it's based on them, and how they see the world, then what they think ceases to matter in the grand scheme of things. Because there's very little you can do to change that. You just have to see yourself, and live accordingly. Something quite rare, but precious. :)

Quote from: RuthAnn on December 19, 2024, 01:37:47 PMHonestly, I believe the doubt about our need would have stopped if the mentioned suicides had also stopped after transition. It's a sad fact that not everyone avoids the urge to kill themselves after transition. I wish it were 100% "happily ever after" but we continue to live in the real world and continue to face imperfections in life. Honestly, I have met some sisters who seem to have very unrealistic expectations about things, and I worry about them.

The thing is, for some people it's not even a case of an "ever after". And the issues they have... have only a small part of how they feel about themselves in terms of identity. Although they think at the time, that's literally all it's about.

It's a lot more complicated than that. They go into transition from a place they shouldn't have gone into it. It's a nuance which is lost on most. It doesn't make anyone else more or less legitimate. You just have to understand each person as they are, and not as a statistic. Treat each person as an individual. Understand why they are who they are. That's too much work for most, sadly. And it leads to generalisations.

This is why therapy is important. Why some of the hoops are a good thing. Because the mind is a deeply messy place.

They would prefer that being transgender is not something that could exist, it is something in their minds as too unnatural for them to grasp, as the world should be binary, male or female.

Why gay and straight are accepted and not transgender as much seems odd to me.  But maybe because it still fits the binary sex/gender scenario.