Susan's Place Transgender Resources

How do you build it and what makes you feel confident?

Also, if you could present physically as your ideal how would it look?

I can't figure out how I would like to present, or rather what I would like to look like. I know what makes me feel more comfortable, but not what I feel like could express fully how I feel.

Oddly enough, I have built my self-confidence by daring to do things that stretch me and are in line with my life goals. I have farmed, started my own business, written poetry, applied twice to rabbinic seminary, and married twice. Often, I fail, but have learned I am capable of more than I had thought possible. Reviewing what happened, I learn new strategies for managing the bundle of skin and bones, emotions, experiences, prejudices, and weird brain circuitry that constitute me. And I am able to adjust my goals.

Being told that others could see I was fully committed to the task at hand or that I did something well empowers me.

Among the best advice I've been given, was to avoid feeling guilty over my mistakes. Take responsibility, and move on. While I wallow in guilt, I fail to pay due attention to my current life, and make new or repeat old mistakes.

As to my presentation, form follows function and clothes should be fun to wear. I was always forgetting things I need during the day; carrying a purse (currently a brown canvas shoulder bag from LL Bean) solved most of that problem. I try to buy clothes of natural fibers that are easy to care for, meaning largely, machine wash and dry, no ironing. I generally buy simple clothes I can mix and match and wear most of the time, without a lot of decision making, except when I expect to get filthy or for special occasions. Colors and innovative necklines attract me; muddy, masculine drab is out, pink, purple, yellow, and various blues predominate. I'll layer different pinks, or, for Thanksgiving, wore a solid pink shirt and purple patterned necktie, tied in a double Windsor knot. My shoes are the suede slip-ons worn by both sexes. Red ones for special occasions. My only jewelry is a circular pendent on a delicate silver chain, with the Hebrew inscription meaning: I am my beloved's and my beloved is mine. My wife brought the pendent back from Israel; I chose the chain. My hair is as long as it will grow, washed and conditioned daily, and tied in a pony tail. I try to keep my beard from getting too shaggy, but not shaving allows me to ignore my facial hair most of the time. Having come of age during the 60s, I eschew deodorant.

I try to express the woman I am (taking the male body into consideration) without advertising it or attracting undue controversy. Suggestions, expressed civilly, are welcome; course corrections are made without warning. The ideal body is not possible in this lifetime, though the one I have is serviceable and works reasonably well.

S

Quote from: Simone Louise on December 21, 2010, 08:54:40 PM
Oddly enough, I have built my self-confidence by daring to do things that stretch me and are in line with my life goals. I have farmed, started my own business, written poetry, applied twice to rabbinic seminary, and married twice. Often, I fail, but have learned I am capable of more than I had thought possible. Reviewing what happened, I learn new strategies for managing the bundle of skin and bones, emotions, experiences, prejudices, and weird brain circuitry that constitute me. And I am able to adjust my goals.

Being told that others could see I was fully committed to the task at hand or that I did something well empowers me.

Among the best advice I've been given, was to avoid feeling guilty over my mistakes. Take responsibility, and move on. While I wallow in guilt, I fail to pay due attention to my current life, and make new or repeat old mistakes.

As to my presentation, form follows function and clothes should be fun to wear. I was always forgetting things I need during the day; carrying a purse (currently a brown canvas shoulder bag from LL Bean) solved most of that problem. I try to buy clothes of natural fibers that are easy to care for, meaning largely, machine wash and dry, no ironing. I generally buy simple clothes I can mix and match and wear most of the time, without a lot of decision making, except when I expect to get filthy or for special occasions. Colors and innovative necklines attract me; muddy, masculine drab is out, pink, purple, yellow, and various blues predominate. I'll layer different pinks, or, for Thanksgiving, wore a solid pink shirt and purple patterned necktie, tied in a double Windsor knot. My shoes are the suede slip-ons worn by both sexes. Red ones for special occasions. My only jewelry is a circular pendent on a delicate silver chain, with the Hebrew inscription meaning: I am my beloved's and my beloved is mine. My wife brought the pendent back from Israel; I chose the chain. My hair is as long as it will grow, washed and conditioned daily, and tied in a pony tail. I try to keep my beard from getting too shaggy, but not shaving allows me to ignore my facial hair most of the time. Having come of age during the 60s, I eschew deodorant.

I try to express the woman I am (taking the male body into consideration) without advertising it or attracting undue controversy. Suggestions, expressed civilly, are welcome; course corrections are made without warning. The ideal body is not possible in this lifetime, though the one I have is serviceable and works reasonably well.

S

So you're saying you focus more on your personality and less on your physical appearance?

QuoteHow do you build it and what makes you feel confident?

Hmmm... I'm feel my most confident when I know *exactly* what I want in any given moment and can articulate that to the nessesary people *and* not give a ->-bleeped-<- what other people think. So for me, building confidence has a lot to do with figuring out what I want and learning how to explain what's on my mind.

Seriously, it's like riding a tidal wave of awesome, because knowing what I want in life is sheer awesome.

QuoteAlso, if you could present physically as your ideal how would it look?

Ahhh jesus. Hmm.... Well, haha, in my mind I'm 6'2, have broad shoulders, long legs and hair that co operates in the morning and hands with long fingers.

But that's not who I am, and I'm okay with that. In reality I'm 5'4, have a tiny tiny body frame, and a killer smile. So for me, presenting myself physically in the most ideal way is working with what I have. I'm not ever going to be the super hero I secretely want to be, but looking in the mirror and seeing more of myself than I've seen in years, ->-bleeped-<- that feels pretty damn good too.

It sucks not being able to feel like you can express yourself, but give it time and paitence and don't try and fit yourself with a label that doesn't work. *hugs* I hope your self confidence grows, and it'll keep growing (slowly, but it will) if you keep expressing yourself in a way that feel comfortable.

Quote from: SidESlicker on December 22, 2010, 04:28:47 PM
Hmmm... I'm feel my most confident when I know *exactly* what I want in any given moment and can articulate that to the nessesary people *and* not give a ->-bleeped-<- what other people think. So for me, building confidence has a lot to do with figuring out what I want and learning how to explain what's on my mind.

Seriously, it's like riding a tidal wave of awesome, because knowing what I want in life is sheer awesome.

Ahhh jesus. Hmm.... Well, haha, in my mind I'm 6'2, have broad shoulders, long legs and hair that co operates in the morning and hands with long fingers.

But that's not who I am, and I'm okay with that. In reality I'm 5'4, have a tiny tiny body frame, and a killer smile. So for me, presenting myself physically in the most ideal way is working with what I have. I'm not ever going to be the super hero I secretely want to be, but looking in the mirror and seeing more of myself than I've seen in years, <not allowed> that feels pretty damn good too.

It sucks not being able to feel like you can express yourself, but give it time and paitence and don't try and fit yourself with a label that doesn't work. *hugs* I hope your self confidence grows, and it'll keep growing (slowly, but it will) if you keep expressing yourself in a way that feel comfortable.

As far as what I'd like to look like, I can never really define or express that. I'm not sure how. I don't think it would be physically possible to alter my body that way. Some days I can't even envision it. It's just the vague feeling that something isn't right, but while I know something is wrong I don't know how to fix it. Some days that really makes me feel awkward and broken. Some days I am so detached I really don't care.

You might not be the super hero you wanted to be, but you could still be a superhero.

------

Something somebody taught me once about self esteem was to practice expressing your likes and dislikes. So, I might have started to say things like, "I like vanilla ice cream, and not chocolate.  And I'm ok with that."  And build up from there as you grow. By doing this you are defining yourself and learning how you fit yourself into the world.

Another thing, is again, the idea of feeling accomplished and competent.  So for me I might start out learning one or two "advanced" english words per day (vitreous, truculent, ...).  It doesn't seem like a lot, and might feel like what's the point.  But over time you are demonstrating competence and growth to yourself.  Then I might decide to learn all the drum rudiments or something more challenging. 

Another quick thing is to just practice making decisions.  So for me instead of being like "I don't care what shirt I wear today,"  I might say, "I don't care what shirt I wear today, but I'm going to pick this one on purpose and see how that plays out."

I guess the biggest magic trick was to stop comparing myself to others.  I might be worried because someone else plays the drums a lot better, and then give up even trying.  But by starting with things like "I like vanilla ice cream" - in which case I don't really care how that compares to somewhere else, I learned to establish a mental space for myself where these comparisons don't intrude.

I still haven't mastered the "no comparing" thing, and I wish I could drum better, but now I try to focus on playing drums because I want to and that it makes me happy, instead of using it to make me feel worse.  And I hope the people who are great at drums are doing it because it makes them happy as well, and not for comparison reasons.

I hope some of this makes sense.  I have found that for me, paradigm shifts have to hit me at the right time.  Tell me something 2 years ago, it might not have sunk in, but last week I was like "ohhhhhh...." and it clicked into place. 

Best wishes

QuoteYou might not be the super hero you wanted to be, but you could still be a superhero.

<3 That quote just made my day :D

Mrrr....

So there are things that you feel "aren't quite right" and then there are days where you're disconnected. First off, *hugs* that blows. Second off, what are things that make you feel connected? What are parts of your appearance that you like, and why do you like them?

It's okay to not know what you'd like to look like. It means you have an evolving sense of self, and that's an important thing to have in life. Try not to think about tomorrow too much, but focus on right now. What do you want right *now*? What's bringing you down now? What's making you happy?

Quote from: SidESlicker on December 22, 2010, 04:49:19 PM
Mrrr....

So there are things that you feel "aren't quite right" and then there are days where you're disconnected. First off, *hugs* that blows. Second off, what are things that make you feel connected? What are parts of your appearance that you like, and why do you like them?

It's okay to not know what you'd like to look like. It means you have an evolving sense of self, and that's an important thing to have in life. Try not to think about tomorrow too much, but focus on right now. What do you want right *now*? What's bringing you down now? What's making you happy?

The days I'm disconnected are more tolerable actually. I feel less shallow and less miserable in general. I still know something isn't right, I just don't care. The days I do care I am far more frustrated with my own psychology and not being able to think myself out of what I consider a ridiculous feeling. I think Melville said it best:

"..a speechlessly quick chaotic bundling of a man into Eternity. But what then? Methinks we have hugely mistaken this matter of Life and Death. Methinks that what they call my shadow here on earth is my true substance. Methinks that in looking at things spiritual, we are too much like oysters observing the sun through the water, and thinking that thick water the thinnest of air. Methinks my body is but the lees of my better being. In fact take my body who will, take it I say, it is not me."

Quote from: dustbunny on December 22, 2010, 04:01:32 PM
So you're saying you focus more on your personality and less on your physical appearance?

Always, surely.

I think that self confidence comes from a feeling of self-competance, that you feel that you can achieve the goals you set yourself. I guess the key to that is setting possible goals that are still a stretch and to think of the reasons it can be done rather than the reasons why not.

I find that it is easy to find the things you are good at, because they are the things that exhilarate you. Indulge in a bit of that and one'd feel on top of the world.

Quote from: Pica Pica on December 22, 2010, 05:14:15 PM
Always, surely.

I think that self confidence comes from a feeling of self-competance, that you feel that you can achieve the goals you set yourself. I guess the key to that is setting possible goals that are still a stretch and to think of the reasons it can be done rather than the reasons why not.

I find that it is easy to find the things you are good at, because they are the things that exhilarate you. Indulge in a bit of that and one'd feel on top of the world.

I really struggle with these things too, part of it because I don't really feel there's anything I'm terribly talented or skilled with. Likewise depression gets the best of me most days to where I just lack motivation. I don't know how to motivate myself either.

QuoteThe days I'm disconnected are more tolerable actually. I feel less shallow and less miserable in general. I still know something isn't right, I just don't care. The days I do care I am far more frustrated with my own psychology and not being able to think myself out of what I consider a ridiculous feeling.

Feelings are never ridiculous, they are just that, the way you feel about something. It's definately not something that you should put down or dismiss.

I agree with Pica Pica, working on your personality and helping that feeling of self competance does wonders. If there's no way you can be happy with your appearance and there's no way that you can think of what you want, then work on your personality and focus on setting goals for yourself and achieving them to raise your self esteem.

Quote from: SidESlicker on December 22, 2010, 05:21:42 PM


Feelings are never ridiculous, they are just that, the way you feel about something. It's definately not something that you should put down or dismiss.

I agree with Pica Pica, working on your personality and helping that feeling of self competance does wonders. If there's no way you can be happy with your appearance and there's no way that you can think of what you want, then work on your personality and focus on setting goals for yourself and achieving them to raise your self esteem.

I have a very well established love/hate relationship with my emotions. I understand they're important in experiencing life, I just dislike how they are so often negative and how despite their simplicity and vagueness I can neither shake their effect. It makes me feel like a horse in a bridal instead of a free mustang.

Quote from: dustbunny on December 22, 2010, 04:01:32 PM
So you're saying you focus more on your personality and less on your physical appearance?

My wife often refers to me as the Beast ( a reference to the Disney movie). The Beast did not free himself from the spell by focusing on his appearance, but by acting for the benefit of others. Rabbi Hillel had roughly the same idea in mind, 2000 years ago, when he said:  If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others, what am I? And if not now, when?

Do what interests you, and what you are good at (or could be good at, with work). And do it so that you make life better for others. Unfortunately our society promotes the idea that winning is everything. People used to play music for their own enjoyment and that of friends and family. Now unless we can be a commercial success, we tend to listen to someone else's music in our earphones, denying ourselves the pleasure of playing and isolating us from friends and family.

You speak of bridled horses. They are not all beaten, down trodden animals. The successful ones are doing what feels good to them, what exhilarates them. The winning racehorse has heart, and loves the race. The successful plowhorse is exhilarated by the physical exertion, the test of muscle versus load. We speak of horse and rider acting in unison, as one.

And most of us do not start out terribly skilled; skill requires training, practice, effort, and discipline. And to get through all that, you'd better be doing what excites you, what gives you joy, and what satisfies your soul. I, too, have practiced many trades: statistics, computer programming, dairy farming, writing, and graphic arts among them. And now I move packages at UPS, and I love that, too. And I love to cook, clean, sew, knit, and care for my wife and daughter (and the three grown kids from the first marriage).

I'll probably never cook for a restaurant nor win prizes, but people enjoy my cooking and keep coming back for more. My cooking benefits other, and leaves me feeling good and more self-confident. It lends to a closeness with all four kids that I treasure. It lets me feel like a wife to my wife. It gives me a reason to read all those women's magazines and to stay in the kitchen at parties, with all the other women, talking about cooking and children. And doing what I find exciting and satisfying mitigates my negative emotions (like, if I'm so good, how come I'm not rich and famous and why do I keep making the same mistakes and why am I not more of a social activist or as caring and effective as some of the genetic women I know?).  But the bottom line is more and more I love my life.

Finally, there's an Hasidic tale about two lost wanderers lost in a forest. The first asks: "Do you know the way out?" And the second replies, "No, but I know what I've tried that hasn't worked. And you know what you've tried. Together, we'll have a better chance of finding our way out." So keep writing; the unicorn forest is a good and safe place to wander.

A hug from me, too
S

Quote from: Simone Louise on December 22, 2010, 08:36:10 PM
My wife often refers to me as the Beast ( a reference to the Disney movie). The Beast did not free himself from the spell by focusing on his appearance, but by acting for the benefit of others. Rabbi Hillel had roughly the same idea in mind, 2000 years ago, when he said:  If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others, what am I? And if not now, when?

Do what interests you, and what you are good at (or could be good at, with work). And do it so that you make life better for others. Unfortunately our society promotes the idea that winning is everything. People used to play music for their own enjoyment and that of friends and family. Now unless we can be a commercial success, we tend to listen to someone else's music in our earphones, denying ourselves the pleasure of playing and isolating us from friends and family.

You speak of bridled horses. They are not all beaten, down trodden animals. The successful ones are doing what feels good to them, what exhilarates them. The winning racehorse has heart, and loves the race. The successful plowhorse is exhilarated by the physical exertion, the test of muscle versus load. We speak of horse and rider acting in unison, as one.

And most of us do not start out terribly skilled; skill requires training, practice, effort, and discipline. And to get through all that, you'd better be doing what excites you, what gives you joy, and what satisfies your soul. I, too, have practiced many trades: statistics, computer programming, dairy farming, writing, and graphic arts among them. And now I move packages at UPS, and I love that, too. And I love to cook, clean, sew, knit, and care for my wife and daughter (and the three grown kids from the first marriage).

I'll probably never cook for a restaurant nor win prizes, but people enjoy my cooking and keep coming back for more. My cooking benefits other, and leaves me feeling good and more self-confident. It lends to a closeness with all four kids that I treasure. It lets me feel like a wife to my wife. It gives me a reason to read all those women's magazines and to stay in the kitchen at parties, with all the other women, talking about cooking and children. And doing what I find exciting and satisfying mitigates my negative emotions (like, if I'm so good, how come I'm not rich and famous and why do I keep making the same mistakes and why am I not more of a social activist or as caring and effective as some of the genetic women I know?).  But the bottom line is more and more I love my life.

Finally, there's an Hasidic tale about two lost wanderers lost in a forest. The first asks: "Do you know the way out?" And the second replies, "No, but I know what I've tried that hasn't worked. And you know what you've tried. Together, we'll have a better chance of finding our way out." So keep writing; the unicorn forest is a good and safe place to wander.

A hug from me, too
S

Over the years I've lost the enjoyment and passion for things. Nothing really holds my interest nor pleasure anymore. I feel distracted, frustrated and trapped. I honestly look forward to days when I'm totally apathetic. Though regardless no days do I manage to get things done. Everything is a task, a chore and I loathe it. I don't know how to return to having things I enjoy again. Everything frustrates me and it makes me feel like a worthless/useless person.

In my avatar on here I am wearing a mustang belt. I think if I got what I really wanted I would have the wind in my hair and the painted canyon and the rest of the world far out of sight. I envision this feeling of freedom, but my efforts literally feel like beating a dead horse to try to get it to drink the water I dragged it to.

Just out of curiousity-been to a shrink? Lack of motivation, self-dislike, feelings of pointlessness, feeling "useless," disorganized thinking, anhedonia... sounds like chronic, low grade, clinical depression...or at least it could be.

Quote from: rite_of_inversion on December 22, 2010, 11:21:51 PM
Just out of curiousity-been to a shrink? Lack of motivation, self-dislike, feelings of pointlessness, feeling "useless," disorganized thinking, anhedonia... sounds like chronic, low grade, clinical depression...or at least it could be.

Yes. I was diagnosed with depression, anxiety and obcessive-compulsive tendencies. The root cause of these though really has less to do with brain chemistry and more to do with how my worldview has changed over the years and my inability to deal with certain aspects of my life (my gender confusion being one of them). Likewise my adrenals and thyroid are both underfunctioning which can contribute to all of the above feelings. If I can find a way to have another paradigm shift I'll probably be able to manage, but I have to work that out with myself philosophically first which is why I asked how people cope, because it seems many of us base our sense of worth on accomplishment, the opinions of others, etc, all of which are faulty systems and have lead to my current state of unrest.

Quote from: dustbunny on December 21, 2010, 06:54:16 PM
How do you build it and what makes you feel confident?

By repeating things that make me feel good about myself.
If I can throw a glass in the air and make it land in my palm I'll do it again.
.. Probably I'll fail and the glass will break, but I still managed it once ;)

QuoteAlso, if you could present physically as your ideal how would it look?

Exactly the way I do now.
Over time I dropped my dream image and instead started working with what I have and finding my comfort zone in that.
Yes, that does mean that I sometimes wore the same outfit two weeks straight simply because of the feedback I got.
Point is: I got there.

QuoteI can't figure out how I would like to present, or rather what I would like to look like. I know what makes me feel more comfortable, but not what I feel like could express fully how I feel.

It takes time, effort, setbacks and achievements. And a lot of fun experiments that sometimes will also turn out not to be that much fun. It takes quite a backbone and growing one might also take time . Maybe you'll never be done, but you'll always be on the right track if you dare to try.

Oddly enough, I have built my self-confidence by daring to do things that stretch me and are in line with my life goals. I have farmed, started my own business, written poetry, applied twice to rabbinic seminary, and married twice. Often, I fail, but have learned I am capable of more than I had thought possible. Reviewing what happened, I learn new strategies for managing the bundle of skin and bones, emotions, experiences, prejudices, and weird brain circuitry that constitute me. And I am able to adjust my goals.

QFT

I'm reminded that Gandhi once said one of our most precious rights is the right to fail. 

Quote from: dustbunny on December 25, 2010, 01:09:11 PM
my adrenals and thyroid are both underfunctioning

When I was a child, doctors considered radiation treatment an effective alternative to tonsillectomy. Two of my cousins and I had the treatment. One of my cousins died in his 30s; the other had her thyroid removed. I simply have benign nodes on my thyroid, get regular letters from the hospital asking if I am still alive, and a regular checkup from an endocrinologist.

So your saying your thyroid tests low raised a red flag for me. I searched the National Institutes of Health website to find the symptoms of under-functioning (which I suppose you already know). Thyroid: "Too little thyroid hormone causes hypothyroidism, which slows down bodily functions and leads to fatigue, weight gain, cold intolerance, and related symptoms." Adrenal: " The most common symptoms are chronic, worsening fatigue, muscle weakness, loss of appetite, and weight loss." Either can kill you.

To build self-confidence, your first step must be to take care of your health. That is as directive as I can make it. If I could fly to Minnesota and take you by the hand to the Mayo Clinic (or its functional alternative), I would.

I suspect money is short, and I don't know how to get you help with the system there. My experience here leads me to believe that local, liberal clergy can help direct you and, possibly, advocate for you. Maybe others on this forum have had experience. Whatever it takes, get treated for what ails you. And keep in touch.

Be well,
S

Your mental/emotional abilities and physical health go hand in hand. You bounce one off the other as an excuse for not doing anything about either. Just an observation.

You need to get to a doctor and work out a med plan that you're comfortable with.
You need to see a therapist to help you get through as many emotional, and if needed mental problems your having. And you can't do just one or the other.

You also need to just stand up to the things that you feel are keeping you down.

Wild mustangs lead miserable lives, dealing with nothing but survival hardships their entire lives. I know, I deal with horses and I have done a fair amount of research on rescuing one or more. On the other hand, I have brought back abused and neglected horses to lead lives that are content and filled with anticipation of working with their owners each day.

Everyone wants that feeling of freedom, but you never get it for free. It takes getting your life in order and doing the work and putting in the effort to get there. And more of the same to stay there.

I live with clinical depression, some OCD stuff, and Borderline Personality (please look that up if you do not know exactly what it means). I live with cronic pain in my joints, and my nerves seem to just light up when ever they feel like it.
I take a handful of meds in the morning and again at night. Without most of them I would be dead. Some days I wish I was.

The point is, I suppose, is that I will never let anything negative stop me from doing what is positive in my life. Yes I have to wear a halters worth of meds and it hurts some days, but I can still let the winds of heaven blow past my ears and mane. But only because I refuse to stay in the barn.

Step off the edge, let go. That moment that time stands still and the world is tranquil, for just that moment, lives with you forever. Get started.

From the Mayo Clinic's web site:

Mayo Clinic has a long history of providing care to patients regardless of their ability to pay. Our primary value is "the needs of the patient come first."

Mayo Clinic provides services to meet the needs of patients who are unable to pay for care. These services include:
Helping patients find sources to fund their care, including opportunities to work with outside agencies.
Using fair and consistent collection practices that are in the best interest of all parties involved.
Providing individualized payment plans, medical services at reduced rates or at no cost — based upon the patient's ability to pay.
Providing emergency care to stabilize patients, regardless of ability to pay.
Mayo Clinic has developed a process for directing patients to alternative sources of funding for their medical care. Mayo Clinic determines a patient's need for charity care based on financial information and the medical services needed. The financial information includes the patient's individual and family income, assets, employment status, family size and availability of alternative sources of payment. Mayo Clinic's charity care policy requires that the medical services must be extraordinary and unique to Mayo (i.e., services that are not readily available at medical centers closer to the patient's home).

Quote from: dustbunny on December 21, 2010, 06:54:16 PM
How do you build it and what makes you feel confident?

Also, if you could present physically as your ideal how would it look?

I can't figure out how I would like to present, or rather what I would like to look like. I know what makes me feel more comfortable, but not what I feel like could express fully how I feel.

confidence building can happen in a lot of different ways I've lived through some heavy crap medically and emotionally I've found having goals that I might never achieve that have lots of little steps each little step that I achieve builds my confidence.  With my apearence my ultimate goal is to be seen as a bearded Lady the early steps were very small because I didn't have the confidence to wear what I wanted so I started with just underwear and androgynous clothling I changed from just going to shops that cater for "both" genders to shops that only do female  clothes early days I'd shop with a female and get her to buy the items now I'm always presenting as a bearded man with breasts in female clothes and I buy everything for myself :) and often shop without a friend and when I do I make it clear that it is for me every time I push the limit I build confidence to do so even more next time, I was originally told that if I wear a dress with my beard I would get bashed
I now know that harsh words are the worst punishment most people use in a public place (for being different).   unfortunatily working toward one goal won't give confidence toward other goals but it can give confidence to try different things personly I think building confidence in being true to yourself it is a brings a major boost in happyness but when forced to be something your not It can be a Major Issue and feels like Hell.  always work toward doing something you enjoy or toward presenting as what feels right for you.  If unsure of how you wish to present I would only suggest tryng to work out how you can express who you are.  and to keep your eyes open as to what other genderqueer/androgynes do (youtube is your friend)  and try putting your own slant on what ever appeals
I hope there is something of use in what I have typed

I have Major Depressive Disorder....which gets a field promotion to General Disaster when not on properly working happy pills. :( I also have really spectacular allergies and fairly bad asthma.   I have a couple of inhalers and pop pills like a Pac-Man to support my oxygen habit; either asthma or suicidality could, in fact, take me out-I get that bad astonishingly fast.  Probably the depression is more dangerous these days-I'm on industrial-strength asthma meds.

Basically, I can't do the things which cause me to like myself, build a successful life unless my physical health and mood disorder are under control.  Challenges met build self-esteem...if you're chronically exhausted, you can't face those challenges successfully, if you face them at all.

So I'd tell you to get after your physical health first...and if you're still down on yourself after getting the physical issues taken care of, get meds AND at least a brief course of therapy, which work better than either alone.
Part of therapy ought to be help in setting some goals for, say, the next five years.

Being the busybody I am, I'll suggest a degree if you haven't already got one, and if you do, go get a master's.

I agree with most of what's been said on here (I've forgotten now what I just read, but anyway). 

First, I can tell you that I beat my depression by simply deciding that I was not going to be sad or angry or depressed anymore.  You always feel those things coming on, so what I did was figure out a few things that always make me happy (like puppies, kittens, etc) and when I felt all that depression mess coming on, I stopped and forced myself to think about those things and forced myself to feel happy.  We know what happy feels like.  You can force yourself to feel happy.  It took a LOT of work and a long time (we'll say 3-ish years), but now I am rarely bothered by those feelings and I know how to stop them.  You have to be a warrior, but it's worth it.  I literally sat down one day and said, "I'm tired of being depressed and by god, I'm not going to anymore."  I firmly believe that most anything can be overcome through a sheer force of will. 

Second, and this has been said, I think confidence comes from an acceptance of failure.  You have the right to try things and to fail at them.  You can't succeed if you don't try at all.  Once I allowed failure to be an acceptable thing within myself, a HUGE burden was lifted from me...not only that, but I think I'm much more successful now because I was able to find myself and what I wanted to do once I allowed myself to fail.

You have to learn to like yourself.  I like myself very much and if someone doesn't like me, then that's their loss.  That attitude might sound arrogant, but you'll drive yourself crazy if you try to be someone that other people like. 

As for finding things that you like or might want to do, that just takes some searching.  Stopping feelings of apathy will take some serious work, but you can do it, again, through will.  You just have to be determined to feel something.  I learned what I wanted to do while I was working at a job that I absolutely loathed.  I processed health care claims...it can pay the bills if you stick with it, but after a year, I realized I'd rather flip burgers for the rest of my life than spend another day at that place.  While I worked, I thought about all the things I could be doing (and I had a LOT of time to think...claims processing is mindless work).  After I considered many, many options, I determined what would make me happiest (writing fiction and teaching at a university).  It takes time, but you can do it.

The key is to not give up, no matter what setbacks you may have.  You won't stop being depressed overnight.  I've always heard that it takes 3 weeks to create a new habit (and something like 30 days to break a habit, so be patient and allow yourself to fail.  Your life is yours to live and do with it as you choose.  You only need to make yourself happy.  If you make yourself happy, others will be happy for you.


As for the physical stuff, the key is working with what you've got (I think this was said earlier too).  There are very few people in the world who have the bodies that they desire, no matter what their gender status (even the most beautiful models have body image issues).  Look at what you've got and be happy that you have it.  I was always told that there is always someone worse off and that's true.  This goes along with the deciding to be happy thing too.  If you are happy with what you have, then you'll be happier in general.  I'd love to be 6'1", but I'm happy with my 5'6.5" frame.  Never beat yourself up over what you don't have.  Celebrate what you do have.  :laugh:

Jaimey, I do sometimes think we are photocopies of each other.

Quote from: Pica Pica on December 31, 2010, 10:38:48 AM
Jaimey, I do sometimes think we are photocopies of each other.

Indeed, dear.  Indeed.  And might I say "beautiful" photocopies.  :laugh:

Quote from: dustbunny on December 21, 2010, 06:54:16 PM
How do you build it and what makes you feel confident?

Also, if you could present physically as your ideal how would it look?

You have received a lot of amazing answers to your question. To build upon these answers, here's something you can do which has helped me in the past.

To building your self-esteem, you could do this exercise. Take a piece of paper and start writing 25 things you like about yourself. They could be physical or behavioral. If you cannot think about 25, write as many as you can. When you can think about more, write them down. If you have more than 25, that would be even better.

Once you have written these down, ask some people who know you about what they think are your best qualities. See if you can add to your list.

After you have completed this exercise, which may take a few days (it is okay), write down on another piece of paper how you would like to be seen 5 years from now. Not only by others but also by yourself. Do not limit these to gender-specific things. Be sure to include other things - for example you academics or career or friendships or relationships or knowledge or accomplishments or awards or travel or hobbies or health or exercise, etc.

The difference between where you are at now (your first list of 25+ things you like about yourself) and where you want to be 5 years from now (your second list about how you would like to be seen 5 years from now) will help you set your goals for the future. As Simone pointed out previously, if you can meet or exceed some or all of your goals, you will begin to feel greater self-esteem.

Of course, your lists will change with time. So you could revisit and revise these lists and reset your goals. You goals should be your goals, not based on someone else's goals. Lasting self-esteem takes time to build.

It is important to never base your self-esteem on another person. In other words, do not let someone else's acceptance or non-acceptance of you become the sole determinant of your self-esteem. Acceptance or non-acceptance by others should only be seen as the reason for re-evaluating what you have done which caused their reactions, and that re-evaluation need not necessarily result in a change in how you do things.

Regarding how to create your ideal physical look ... it takes time. People evolve. If you watch most common celebrities redesign their physical look over time. So do most non-celebrities. The physical is constantly changing, even if only gradually. It is important to be realistic with your goals for your physical look.

Start with a look that feels comfortable. Experiment a bit. And over time, you can incorporate your successful experiments into your look. 

Quote from: tekla on December 25, 2010, 11:06:43 PM
From the Mayo Clinic's web site:

Mayo Clinic has a long history of providing care to patients regardless of their ability to pay. Our primary value is "the needs of the patient come first."

Mayo Clinic provides services to meet the needs of patients who are unable to pay for care. These services include:
Helping patients find sources to fund their care, including opportunities to work with outside agencies.
Using fair and consistent collection practices that are in the best interest of all parties involved.
Providing individualized payment plans, medical services at reduced rates or at no cost — based upon the patient's ability to pay.
Providing emergency care to stabilize patients, regardless of ability to pay.
Mayo Clinic has developed a process for directing patients to alternative sources of funding for their medical care. Mayo Clinic determines a patient's need for charity care based on financial information and the medical services needed. The financial information includes the patient's individual and family income, assets, employment status, family size and availability of alternative sources of payment. Mayo Clinic's charity care policy requires that the medical services must be extraordinary and unique to Mayo (i.e., services that are not readily available at medical centers closer to the patient's home).

Mayo is in Rochester which is quite a ways from here.

Quote from: rite_of_inversion on December 27, 2010, 03:04:13 AM
I have Major Depressive Disorder....which gets a field promotion to General Disaster when not on properly working happy pills. :( I also have really spectacular allergies and fairly bad asthma.   I have a couple of inhalers and pop pills like a Pac-Man to support my oxygen habit; either asthma or suicidality could, in fact, take me out-I get that bad astonishingly fast.  Probably the depression is more dangerous these days-I'm on industrial-strength asthma meds.

Basically, I can't do the things which cause me to like myself, build a successful life unless my physical health and mood disorder are under control.  Challenges met build self-esteem...if you're chronically exhausted, you can't face those challenges successfully, if you face them at all.

So I'd tell you to get after your physical health first...and if you're still down on yourself after getting the physical issues taken care of, get meds AND at least a brief course of therapy, which work better than either alone.
Part of therapy ought to be help in setting some goals for, say, the next five years.

Being the busybody I am, I'll suggest a degree if you haven't already got one, and if you do, go get a master's.

Finishing my Master's and hating it.

Quote from: Jaimey on December 30, 2010, 11:56:17 PM
I agree with most of what's been said on here (I've forgotten now what I just read, but anyway). 

First, I can tell you that I beat my depression by simply deciding that I was not going to be sad or angry or depressed anymore.  You always feel those things coming on, so what I did was figure out a few things that always make me happy (like puppies, kittens, etc) and when I felt all that depression mess coming on, I stopped and forced myself to think about those things and forced myself to feel happy.  We know what happy feels like.  You can force yourself to feel happy.  It took a LOT of work and a long time (we'll say 3-ish years), but now I am rarely bothered by those feelings and I know how to stop them.  You have to be a warrior, but it's worth it.  I literally sat down one day and said, "I'm tired of being depressed and by god, I'm not going to anymore."  I firmly believe that most anything can be overcome through a sheer force of will. 

Second, and this has been said, I think confidence comes from an acceptance of failure.  You have the right to try things and to fail at them.  You can't succeed if you don't try at all.  Once I allowed failure to be an acceptable thing within myself, a HUGE burden was lifted from me...not only that, but I think I'm much more successful now because I was able to find myself and what I wanted to do once I allowed myself to fail.

You have to learn to like yourself.  I like myself very much and if someone doesn't like me, then that's their loss.  That attitude might sound arrogant, but you'll drive yourself crazy if you try to be someone that other people like. 

As for finding things that you like or might want to do, that just takes some searching.  Stopping feelings of apathy will take some serious work, but you can do it, again, through will.  You just have to be determined to feel something.  I learned what I wanted to do while I was working at a job that I absolutely loathed.  I processed health care claims...it can pay the bills if you stick with it, but after a year, I realized I'd rather flip burgers for the rest of my life than spend another day at that place.  While I worked, I thought about all the things I could be doing (and I had a LOT of time to think...claims processing is mindless work).  After I considered many, many options, I determined what would make me happiest (writing fiction and teaching at a university).  It takes time, but you can do it.

The key is to not give up, no matter what setbacks you may have.  You won't stop being depressed overnight.  I've always heard that it takes 3 weeks to create a new habit (and something like 30 days to break a habit, so be patient and allow yourself to fail.  Your life is yours to live and do with it as you choose.  You only need to make yourself happy.  If you make yourself happy, others will be happy for you.


As for the physical stuff, the key is working with what you've got (I think this was said earlier too).  There are very few people in the world who have the bodies that they desire, no matter what their gender status (even the most beautiful models have body image issues).  Look at what you've got and be happy that you have it.  I was always told that there is always someone worse off and that's true.  This goes along with the deciding to be happy thing too.  If you are happy with what you have, then you'll be happier in general.  I'd love to be 6'1", but I'm happy with my 5'6.5" frame.  Never beat yourself up over what you don't have.  Celebrate what you do have.  :laugh:

I somehow feel like I'm speaking an entirely different language here. If I could choose to feel better I would choose to change a lot of things upsetting me. I would choose to feel comfortable as a cisgendered person instead of feeling confused because I am an androgyne all the time. Does this make sense? If I could will and rationalize all my emotions and things were something simple it would have been done. I'm not lazy nor self defeating. Thinking about people being worse off does NOT comfort me. It makes me feel bad for them and frustrated and my lack of ability to improve their lives as well as my own. I had asked people on here because I figured there might be something I hadn't tried or thought of that people who were suffering with the frustrations that come from not being "normal" cause. If I could will myself out of these feelings I would and then I would will myself into being a "normal" girl who doesn't "normal" things "normally". That's not who I am and I hate it. It this that hard to understand?

Quote from: marissak on January 01, 2011, 04:18:55 AM
You have received a lot of amazing answers to your question. To build upon these answers, here's something you can do which has helped me in the past.

To building your self-esteem, you could do this exercise. Take a piece of paper and start writing 25 things you like about yourself. They could be physical or behavioral. If you cannot think about 25, write as many as you can. When you can think about more, write them down. If you have more than 25, that would be even better.

Once you have written these down, ask some people who know you about what they think are your best qualities. See if you can add to your list.

After you have completed this exercise, which may take a few days (it is okay), write down on another piece of paper how you would like to be seen 5 years from now. Not only by others but also by yourself. Do not limit these to gender-specific things. Be sure to include other things - for example you academics or career or friendships or relationships or knowledge or accomplishments or awards or travel or hobbies or health or exercise, etc.

The difference between where you are at now (your first list of 25+ things you like about yourself) and where you want to be 5 years from now (your second list about how you would like to be seen 5 years from now) will help you set your goals for the future. As Simone pointed out previously, if you can meet or exceed some or all of your goals, you will begin to feel greater self-esteem.

Of course, your lists will change with time. So you could revisit and revise these lists and reset your goals. You goals should be your goals, not based on someone else's goals. Lasting self-esteem takes time to build.

It is important to never base your self-esteem on another person. In other words, do not let someone else's acceptance or non-acceptance of you become the sole determinant of your self-esteem. Acceptance or non-acceptance by others should only be seen as the reason for re-evaluating what you have done which caused their reactions, and that re-evaluation need not necessarily result in a change in how you do things.

Regarding how to create your ideal physical look ... it takes time. People evolve. If you watch most common celebrities redesign their physical look over time. So do most non-celebrities. The physical is constantly changing, even if only gradually. It is important to be realistic with your goals for your physical look.

Start with a look that feels comfortable. Experiment a bit. And over time, you can incorporate your successful experiments into your look.

In experimentation nothing feels right. I almost feel like I shouldn't have a body, if that makes any sense at all.

Dustbunny,

People are just sharing what works for them.

Quote from: ativan on December 25, 2010, 11:02:06 PM
Your mental/emotional abilities and physical health go hand in hand. You bounce one off the other as an excuse for not doing anything about either. Just an observation.

You need to get to a doctor and work out a med plan that you're comfortable with.
You need to see a therapist to help you get through as many emotional, and if needed mental problems your having. And you can't do just one or the other.

You also need to just stand up to the things that you feel are keeping you down.

Wild mustangs lead miserable lives, dealing with nothing but survival hardships their entire lives. I know, I deal with horses and I have done a fair amount of research on rescuing one or more. On the other hand, I have brought back abused and neglected horses to lead lives that are content and filled with anticipation of working with their owners each day.

Everyone wants that feeling of freedom, but you never get it for free. It takes getting your life in order and doing the work and putting in the effort to get there. And more of the same to stay there.

I live with clinical depression, some OCD stuff, and Borderline Personality (please look that up if you do not know exactly what it means). I live with cronic pain in my joints, and my nerves seem to just light up when ever they feel like it.
I take a handful of meds in the morning and again at night. Without most of them I would be dead. Some days I wish I was.

The point is, I suppose, is that I will never let anything negative stop me from doing what is positive in my life. Yes I have to wear a halters worth of meds and it hurts some days, but I can still let the winds of heaven blow past my ears and mane. But only because I refuse to stay in the barn.

Step off the edge, let go. That moment that time stands still and the world is tranquil, for just that moment, lives with you forever. Get started.

I've been through the gauntlet with the state and insurance. They recently informed me I cannot be covered seeing the doctor I was. They sent me a book with a list of doctors I can see. And with as many doctors as I've seen in the past I'd really rather die than waste more time with their flaming hoops of false hope. I'm allergic to the thyroid meds and I had been fighting for over a year to get to see an endocrinologist finally. I would rather die than keep dealing with social workers who skirt me around and doctors who write me a script for meds I'm allergic to despite me repeatedly telling them my allergies and shooing me out of their office. I am really out of steam with all of this. I'd rather spend my time doing things I don't hate.

Dustbunny

QuoteI had asked people on here because I figured there might be something I hadn't tried or thought of that people who were suffering with the frustrations that come from not being "normal" cause.

I want to say you've come to the right place. Being androgyne we are a minority within a minority within a minority. And most of us have co-existing conditions of various kinds. I, for example, have ADD (the dreamy kind, usually associated with females) which wasn't diagnosed until I was 60. I am susceptible to migraines, though I seem to have outlived the worst of them. I have processing problems (people can see the gears grinding when they talk to me, and often assume I didn't hear them). We have or have had personal problems stop us in our tracks.

Like you, we are compassionate. Did someone ask why androgynes are mild-mannered? I am not sure we are nor do I know why. We are acquainted with sorrow. We are all of us here seeking a better life.

If we knew the solutions to all life's problems, we would give you an immediate answer. We don't. Please, be patient with us, for this clearly will take some back and forth. Be patient: we are not experts, not professionals, and many of us lack some social skills and graces.

You are the judge here. No one knows who you are and what you have been through better than you. Feel free to shoot down all our suggestions, what do we know? But, maybe among the wreckage, you can find something usable if you keep an open mind.

Since, we must start somewhere, what are your bachelor and master fields, and what is it about the master's program you hate?

And, since you say you'd rather do something you don't hate, name some things or actions, you don't hate.

That is all I can come up with now, but I will keep the percolator bubbling.

S

Quote from: Simone Louise on January 01, 2011, 06:54:27 PM
Dustbunny

I want to say you've come to the right place. Being androgyne we are a minority within a minority within a minority. And most of us have co-existing conditions of various kinds. I, for example, have ADD (the dreamy kind, usually associated with females) which wasn't diagnosed until I was 60. I am susceptible to migraines, though I seem to have outlived the worst of them. I have processing problems (people can see the gears grinding when they talk to me, and often assume I didn't hear them). We have or have had personal problems stop us in our tracks.

Like you, we are compassionate. Did someone ask why androgynes are mild-mannered? I am not sure we are nor do I know why. We are acquainted with sorrow. We are all of us here seeking a better life.

If we knew the solutions to all life's problems, we would give you an immediate answer. We don't. Please, be patient with us, for this clearly will take some back and forth. Be patient: we are not experts, not professionals, and many of us lack some social skills and graces.

You are the judge here. No one knows who you are and what you have been through better than you. Feel free to shoot down all our suggestions, what do we know? But, maybe among the wreckage, you can find something usable if you keep an open mind.

Since, we must start somewhere, what are your bachelor and master fields, and what is it about the master's program you hate?

And, since you say you'd rather do something you don't hate, name some things or actions, you don't hate.

That is all I can come up with now, but I will keep the percolator bubbling.

S

My undergrad major was English with a double minor in humanities and music and a concentration in arts and Native American studies. My rushed typing and lack of editing often belies this original field. I also hated English after studying it for so many years. Every habit seems to breed avarice in me. It may have been the way it was taught too. I used to have an interest in linguistics, however, having to read so much literature before they would let me pursue the linguists I lost interest. During the end of the 2nd year of my undergrad I was bedridden because the hypothyroidism kept getting worse despite treatment. After I found out I was allergic to the meds I was able to slow my steady decline and after that year I was able to get back out of bed. In the process I gained 60 lbs and lost 2/3 of my hair. I was fairly certain at that point I wouldn't make it to 22. Tbh a part of me really wishes I hadn't. One of my doctors insisted trying acupuncture (which he had learned through several seminars). I was completely opposed to the idea, but he said it would be free if it didn't work. It successfully rid me of several allergies I had and alleviated a number of the symptoms I had, which of course is what sent me in pursuit of my MS and OMD which I am currently getting. I was, again, greatly interested to start, but the stress of not making ends meet, being at school now 50 hours a week (40 of those in clinic) so I have no time to work to get any sort of income to remedy this problem coupled with the fact that now my debt is so huge I could never drop out and work without all my income being poured into just the minimum payments on my loans, and the pitfalls of life (my grandpa having a stroke, my aunt wrecking my car, 2 tooth abcesses, an eye infection that almost cost me my right eye and resulted in 3.5 months of heavy corticosteroids which caused a cascade of side effects..) have made it impossible to pay attention enough to learn. I just want it to be over now, I'm so tired.

Quote from: dustbunny on January 01, 2011, 04:07:26 PM
I somehow feel like I'm speaking an entirely different language here. If I could choose to feel better I would choose to change a lot of things upsetting me. I would choose to feel comfortable as a cisgendered person instead of feeling confused because I am an androgyne all the time. Does this make sense? If I could will and rationalize all my emotions and things were something simple it would have been done. I'm not lazy nor self defeating. Thinking about people being worse off does NOT comfort me. It makes me feel bad for them and frustrated and my lack of ability to improve their lives as well as my own. I had asked people on here because I figured there might be something I hadn't tried or thought of that people who were suffering with the frustrations that come from not being "normal" cause. If I could will myself out of these feelings I would and then I would will myself into being a "normal" girl who doesn't "normal" things "normally". That's not who I am and I hate it. It this that hard to understand?

No offense, but you've already decided that you can't be happy because you're depressed.  That IS self defeating.  You've accepted depression as the only option.  And I'm a little irritated with the whole "I can't chose to be cisgendered" as though you seem to think I have.  I'm androgyne too, sweetheart.  Who even suggested such a thing?  Call it tough love, but no one can make you happy but yourself.  We've all given you our best advice and our own experiences and you're throwing it back in our faces without even trying.  Even if you think it won't work, just smile, say thanks, and go about your business.  We don't have all the answers. 

I have $100,000 in student loans.  I lost the two people who raised me within two years of each other.  When I first graduated college, I couldn't find a decent job and only made about $600 a month.  When I finally did get a decent job, the vast majority of my paycheck went to student loans that had defaulted.  I've gone back to school to give myself the opportunity to find a better job.  When I went back, I spent so much time working and in school, that I lost my best friend of eight years.  Everyone goes through bad things.

One thing you need to keep in mind: a lot of us gave very similar advice and those things worked for us.  It might do you well to go over this forum again and keep in mind that we've all been where you are.  We've gone through what you're going through.  Every single one of us has gender issues.  We're all androgyne.  We've all gone through depression and we are getting or have gotten through it.  You asked for advice and we gave it.  If you don't like what we have to say, fine, but we took our time to carefully consider what you had to say and answered to the best of our abilities. 

When it comes down to it, we have two choices in life.  We can give up or get on with it, NOT MATTER HOW BAD THINGS GET.  It's a choice and it's entirely up to us.  Sorry if that seems harsh, but sometimes it has to be.

Dustbunny

Quote from: dustbunny on January 01, 2011, 07:16:24 PM
My undergrad major was English with a double minor in humanities and music and a concentration in arts and Native American studies. My rushed typing and lack of editing often belies this original field. I also hated English after studying it for so many years. Every habit seems to breed avarice in me. It may have been the way it was taught too. I used to have an interest in linguistics, however, having to read so much literature before they would let me pursue the linguists I lost interest. During the end of the 2nd year of my undergrad I was bedridden because the hypothyroidism kept getting worse despite treatment. After I found out I was allergic to the meds I was able to slow my steady decline and after that year I was able to get back out of bed. In the process I gained 60 lbs and lost 2/3 of my hair. I was fairly certain at that point I wouldn't make it to 22. Tbh a part of me really wishes I hadn't. One of my doctors insisted trying acupuncture (which he had learned through several seminars). I was completely opposed to the idea, but he said it would be free if it didn't work. It successfully rid me of several allergies I had and alleviated a number of the symptoms I had, which of course is what sent me in pursuit of my MS and OMD which I am currently getting. I was, again, greatly interested to start, but the stress of not making ends meet, being at school now 50 hours a week (40 of those in clinic) so I have no time to work to get any sort of income to remedy this problem coupled with the fact that now my debt is so huge I could never drop out and work without all my income being poured into just the minimum payments on my loans, and the pitfalls of life (my grandpa having a stroke, my aunt wrecking my car, 2 tooth abcesses, an eye infection that almost cost me my right eye and resulted in 3.5 months of heavy corticosteroids which caused a cascade of side effects..) have made it impossible to pay attention enough to learn. I just want it to be over now, I'm so tired.

I remember writing a letter with a line very like your last line. That was after three years of engineering (science engineering, aeronautical engineering, and civil engineering). Grades for my last semester were 2 Es and 2 Ds, and the school didn't want me back (I was asked to leave three separate occasions). Somehow, I talked my way into the Literary College (my first semester there I was on the good Dean's list--one feature of ADD is that it is really hard to keep focused on a course if it is a requirement, and not a desire). Two years later, I lacked only the second year of Japanese for my BA. I got married, and took it during the summer session, but finished with a D. That should have been the end of my college career, but one day reading the newspaper, I spotted my name in a list of graduates. Timidly and quickly, I went the administration office and, to my amazement, collected my degree.

My only job for six months was re-shelving newspapers at the college library ten hours a week. The country was in a bad recession. I submitted lots of applications unsuccessfully, until I was finally hired as a statistician because I had worked summers as a statistical clerk. Within another six months, my father was dead.

There are times, we can only put one foot in front of the other. Long range planning goes out the window. Each thing has to be broken into little steps, and we must force ourselves to do that step, and then the next. It helps to list some things for which you are thankful each night. Each morning, to say or write out the focus for the day. Spend some time along the river or in the woods. At times, I have posted affirmations around the room; one I remember was "I am a writer." I have found scheduling helped: put x hours of concentrated effort on my studies, and then stop, forget about them until the next day. If I don't get enough sleep and decent food and some exercise on a regular basis, I can sit at my desk, but I just spin my wheel and nothing happens. Do as much as you can each day, and that will have to be enough; don't feel guilty and don't whine. Do be positive.

I can be like a dog wrestling a rag. I would get the damned OMD, and then take another look at what I wanted to do with my life. Please, keep posting, either in forum, or send me a personal message. You can do this. You can live life more fully.

S

Quote from: Jaimey on January 01, 2011, 08:21:43 PM
No offense, but you've already decided that you can't be happy because you're depressed.  That IS self defeating.  You've accepted depression as the only option.  And I'm a little irritated with the whole "I can't chose to be cisgendered" as though you seem to think I have.  I'm androgyne too, sweetheart.  Who even suggested such a thing?  Call it tough love, but no one can make you happy but yourself.  We've all given you our best advice and our own experiences and you're throwing it back in our faces without even trying.  Even if you think it won't work, just smile, say thanks, and go about your business.  We don't have all the answers. 

I have $100,000 in student loans.  I lost the two people who raised me within two years of each other.  When I first graduated college, I couldn't find a decent job and only made about $600 a month.  When I finally did get a decent job, the vast majority of my paycheck went to student loans that had defaulted.  I've gone back to school to give myself the opportunity to find a better job.  When I went back, I spent so much time working and in school, that I lost my best friend of eight years.  Everyone goes through bad things.

One thing you need to keep in mind: a lot of us gave very similar advice and those things worked for us.  It might do you well to go over this forum again and keep in mind that we've all been where you are.  We've gone through what you're going through.  Every single one of us has gender issues.  We're all androgyne.  We've all gone through depression and we are getting or have gotten through it.  You asked for advice and we gave it.  If you don't like what we have to say, fine, but we took our time to carefully consider what you had to say and answered to the best of our abilities. 

When it comes down to it, we have two choices in life.  We can give up or get on with it, NOT MATTER HOW BAD THINGS GET.  It's a choice and it's entirely up to us.  Sorry if that seems harsh, but sometimes it has to be.

I disagree that happiness is entirely a choice as I would choose at this very moment to be happy if I could. I also wasn't saying anyone could choose to be cisgendered, I was stating it's impossible to choose these types of feelings and if I could just decide one day to feel a certain way I'd make myself feel like a woman. I think the difference in my perspective as opposed to yours is that I fail to see a reason to continue why someone would press on no matter how miserable they are. Is it the faith that things will change, loyalty to the ones we love or duty to an invisible being? If my only option here is to pretend my feelings away I may as well just start pretending to be a woman, and I've already tried that unsuccessfully. I didn't expect a forum would essentially have all the answers, I just expected more empathy. Things like choose to be happy offend me. You may as well just say "you're only depressed/angrogyne/in a bad situation because you want to be". I understand your surmounted your problems with success, but me not having the same success as you is not because I want happiness any less. If I had accepted depression as my only option I wouldn't bother writing on a forum, I'd be plotting a way to make my death look like an accident so people who cared about me wouldn't be hurt thinking I killed myself. Maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but there has to be a way I can feel comfortable with life, because living it gets more unbearable by the hour.

Quote from: Simone Louise on January 02, 2011, 10:10:54 AM
Dustbunny

I remember writing a letter with a line very like your last line. That was after three years of engineering (science engineering, aeronautical engineering, and civil engineering). Grades for my last semester were 2 Es and 2 Ds, and the school didn't want me back (I was asked to leave three separate occasions). Somehow, I talked my way into the Literary College (my first semester there I was on the good Dean's list--one feature of ADD is that it is really hard to keep focused on a course if it is a requirement, and not a desire). Two years later, I lacked only the second year of Japanese for my BA. I got married, and took it during the summer session, but finished with a D. That should have been the end of my college career, but one day reading the newspaper, I spotted my name in a list of graduates. Timidly and quickly, I went the administration office and, to my amazement, collected my degree.

My only job for six months was re-shelving newspapers at the college library ten hours a week. The country was in a bad recession. I submitted lots of applications unsuccessfully, until I was finally hired as a statistician because I had worked summers as a statistical clerk. Within another six months, my father was dead.

There are times, we can only put one foot in front of the other. Long range planning goes out the window. Each thing has to be broken into little steps, and we must force ourselves to do that step, and then the next. It helps to list some things for which you are thankful each night. Each morning, to say or write out the focus for the day. Spend some time along the river or in the woods. At times, I have posted affirmations around the room; one I remember was "I am a writer." I have found scheduling helped: put x hours of concentrated effort on my studies, and then stop, forget about them until the next day. If I don't get enough sleep and decent food and some exercise on a regular basis, I can sit at my desk, but I just spin my wheel and nothing happens. Do as much as you can each day, and that will have to be enough; don't feel guilty and don't whine. Do be positive.

I can be like a dog wrestling a rag. I would get the damned OMD, and then take another look at what I wanted to do with my life. Please, keep posting, either in forum, or send me a personal message. You can do this. You can live life more fully.

S

I am getting the OMD. I'm at school 50 hrs a week between clinic and classes. I didn't quit and my feelings didn't change, I'm just busier now, but I feel as pointless and worthless as ever.

Dustbunny, you clearly don't understand what I said if that's what you got from it. 

We ARE empathizing with you precisely because we have been in your shoes.  We've ALL suffered from depression.  I don't know what else to tell you.  We've tried our best to give you advice and that's all we can do.

QuoteI'd be plotting a way to make my death look like an accident so people who cared about me wouldn't be hurt thinking I killed myself.

I've done that.  I thought about it every day for about five years until one day, I just said, to hell with it, I'm going to do what I want.  Screw everything else and screw everyone else.  I don't care what they think.  It's your life and no one else's.  You have to decide that you want to live and what will make you happy.  Just try out stuff until something strikes your fancy.  I don't have any suggestions for you other than you certainly deserve to live.  Saying "f*** it" to other peoples' and society's expectations is probably what helped me most.  I don't know if it will help you or not.

It's still up to you whether or not you want to do anything about your depression.  I can tell you that there is no quick fix and you will not feel better tomorrow.  It takes time and work and you have to want it.  I got through depression by actively monitoring my thoughts and changing them, every moment of every day.  That's what I did and that's why I suggested it.  It can work.  Some people may have had more success with medication, but I never took any, so I don't know.  If nothing else, go to bed tonight and get up tomorrow.  Then go to bed tomorrow night and get up the next day.  And do it again and again.  Make it a goal if you have to.

As for the gender thing, I would suggest not fighting it.  The more you try to become something you aren't, the more miserable you'll be. 

If what we've given you isn't enough, then see a counselor.  There are many who work on an income based sliding scale.  That's all I've got. 

A thing which helped me, was to kill my self.

as in, the thing which makes me "me". It involved substance abuse.

Anyway, another way to say it is, "you're still unhappy because you haven't started doing things to stop being unhappy"
It seems to  be a very common "obstacle", just to feel bad and "nothing will work" so you don't do anything.
The trick is to do something, anything at all. Sometimes it won't work, sometimes it will help.

But if you are defeated before attempting something, then you won't change.

I say this because that is what I struggle with every day.

   Today I woke up feeling the usual depressed and all the other bull->-bleeped-<- stuff that seems to make my life miserable unless I fight back at it.
   Then I got a phone call I had been hoping to get concerning my disabilities.

I won. I really won, I just got the confirmation. What the f**k! It happened!

   So the rest of my day just was happy, happy, happy. I went out and about, did some shopping, even caught myself several times smiling for no apparent reason (at the moment).

   This is what I live for. Days like today. The harder I work at myself, the more of these days I seem to have. Even for no apparent reason. just happy. I smile.

   These are the days that my self esteem will boil over and it takes more than a few days to settle back down. This is what living is supposed to be, I remember it being like this so many years ago......

Dustbunny... look for those moments, sometimes they will come in days worth of time.
Eventually they will be there a lot. (I don't think if it was every day I could stand it, it seems so far away and impossible).
   When it seems like your life is over and there is nothing left, you have to look for those moments. It's all there is left to do. I did kill myself. They brought me back, twice. I guess somebody does care.

   This is my life. This is all I can do. Everything else is secondary. None of it matters. Except for the moments and the longer times that you smile for no apparent reason. Everyone does this, there are no exceptions to this.
Nobody is excluded.
Not you.

Choose to do it...

Quote from: dustbunny on January 16, 2011, 10:52:25 PM
I am getting the OMD. I'm at school 50 hrs a week between clinic and classes. I didn't quit and my feelings didn't change, I'm just busier now, but I feel as pointless and worthless as ever.

In the last 24 hours, I count 3 lengthy replies from earnest online friends, telling you their experiences, and urging you onward. Go Dustbunny! Nobody here has swept you out with the trash. You are running a marathon, and we are standing on the curb, offering you cups of water, telling you you've made a brave start. Keep it up! Those I know who have run marathons tell me that it's not fun while you're doing it. Your body hurts; your mind fills with voices telling you it can't be done. Yet you keep running, putting one foot down, then the next. And why? For that sense of personal accomplishment. The race is just a game, it doesn't matter by itself. What matters is setting a difficult goal and crossing the finish line.

Fifty hour weeks are hard work. Make sure you get enough sleep. Eat well. Take some moments for yourself. Celebrate your accomplishment each week. And, as ativan says: Choose to do it. And as ZaidaZadkiel says: do something, anything at all. And as Jaimey says: Go to bed tonight, and get up tomorrow. We know you can do it. As a union boss once advised me: Show up everyday, and do the best you can.

S

As someone who suffered from Depression for over 40 years,  I would like to offer that we don't fail, we just try a technique that didn't work as well as we had hoped.
Also the cheapest therapy, free in fact, that really works is exercise, just going for a walk can lift my mood.
There is light in the dark, just keep slogging on. It's worth it.
Sandra.

Right now I'm dealing with chronic sinusitis-just got an ethmoidectomy from the county hospital district...and because the intern of the month club that treats us po'folks didn't bother to find out my medical history-specifically what antibiotics had already been used on the crud up my nose...the surgeon handed me a post-surgery antibiotic that I knew it was immune to and ignored me when I protested.
So the life-wrecking, chronic-fatigue causing, infection from hell's recurring...
I reported post-surgery green crud to the latest intern, as well as the odor, and she said she thought it was just the bacteria in the surgical scabs.  That was two weeks ago, now getting lots more green crud, stink and pain.
SO
In order to try to not get ignored anymore, I'm going to try something I recommend you do also: type up your medical history in a synopsis...which does mean going to all your old docs and getting as many of your medical records copied that you can...take in multiple copies and make sure the doctor(s) read it.
Staple on top a cover letter with your current symptoms that need addressed.

And don't just talk to a social worker, because they know nada about allergies...you need to finagle and keep finagling until you know for certain the doctor knows you have these allergies. Even if you have to be underhanded and go stick a copy of your case synopsis under his/her/their office door or something...do anything including dirty tricks to get the prescriber to read your case history. Communication through lackeys will not work.

That's what I'll be trying to do Monday...I want the head doctor to get a look at a synopsis of my case history-that the interns didn't bother to take. I also want the head doc to hear about the green crud. I'm taking my attack wife along with me to the clinic >:-). You won't like her when she's angry ;D

As for depression- for me it's either pills or evaluating every freeway bridge I drive over as to whether the fall will kill me reliably or not.  That's sans gender, sexuality or anything else, that's how haywire my unaltered chemistry is.

My life's too short (and would get a lot shorter fast, no?) to live in the level of agony I feel when my depression's not under control.  Chemically.  Not that exercise, good diet, and positive thoughts don't help...but they won't ameliorate major depressive disorder, any more than a positive attitude can control schizophrenia or bipolar disorder.
Depression is a less florid illness, but it has thought distortions of its' own, particularly self-loathing thoughts.
Drugs are a crutch.  Without which I fall over and can't get back up again.  I take my happy pills.
But, as always, your mileage may vary.
I'd suggest a support group, OP, but it doesn't seem like you have time.