Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I've noticed that a lot, and other people have to. MtF tend to be feminine, and FtM masculine (or at least just stereotypically boyish). I know how girls tend to be, and boys will be boys, but it's a bit weird.
Plus, is it me or do quite a few transwoman like to wear feminine clothing.. A lot? I don't see girls wearing skirts or dresses much honestly; ever actually, unless it's a party or a part of the uniform. 

You don't see that many tomboyish MtF or feminine FtM, as you would with cisgendered people. I've heard people on another trans-related forum say that it seems like a lot of people play up the stereotypes rather then being themselves. 

I've noticed more of the opposite actually. A lot of ftms in particular seem a lot more comfortable expressing femininity than the average cis guy. When you've experienced forced femininity in body, there's just not much left to lose. Posturing just seems stupid at that point.

I am a feminine transguy. I paint my fingernails black and wear my hair in a scene cut. I wear skinny jeans and wear black studs in my ears. I also like to dye my hair funky colors.

*shrugs*
Why is it that a lot of cis people are rather into their gender roles?

Whoooo knows? (The Shadow knows)

What do you consider tomboyish? I love playing soccer, I love some violent video games, I plan to take Muay Thai when I go live in Thailand, I'd certainly like more guy friends, but I think I'm pretty feminine.  :angel:

This is something I've noticed also and have wanted to discuss... But I wasn't quite sure how to bring it up without insulting someone

It seems allot of this behavior takes place at the beginning of transition because folks are just dieing to express themselves and so it becomes very easy to go a bit overboard with acting out the perceived stereo type... Plus, there is allot of experimenting to do

As people become more comfortable with themselves and the gender they are representing the experimenting and acting begins to fall to the way side and the person they are begins to take precedence and a more realistic form

When the ride and the shows are over, guess what's left?  You... Just be yourself

I'll represent the Tomboy MTF's. I like dresses because they work a lot better to give me the shape I want but I also love tattoos and piercings, guitar and Doc Martens. My manner is very boyish and I never did voice therapy - I changed my inflections slightly but it's still read as masculine by most. I have more problems with being mislabeled for being this way instead of more feminine but I don't see the point in transitioning just to take on a new disguise, it's all about being who you are as has been said.

How many cis women won't leave the house without make up?

How many cis women will wear jeans and a t-shirt quite happily but when questioned (or indeed complimented about the t-shirt...it could be quite cool) reply that they're having a schlomp/bad hair/lazy day i.e. they don't feel particularly feminine?

How many cis women have hang ups about their body not being feminine enough and indeed, how many cis women have expensive and sometimes risky surgery in order to become closer to some mythological ideal of feminine?

In fact, how many cis women can be incredibly feminine and over girly?

The answer is quite a lot actually...and you never see girls wearing skirts or dresses? Really?

I could write a similar list for cis guys.

Why do people act over feminine or masculine? Well sometimes that's just how people are, sometimes it is playing a role and that is usually down to having insecurities and feeling you have to prove yourself for what ever reasons. Being trans doesn't give us a monopoly on being insecure and neurotic, if you're going to judge one part of the human race so harshly...judge them all.

Quote from: Helena on February 21, 2011, 03:39:22 AM
How many cis women won't leave the house without make up?

How many cis women will wear jeans and a t-shirt quite happily but when questioned (or indeed complimented about the t-shirt...it could be quite cool) reply that they're having a schlomp/bad hair/lazy day i.e. they don't feel particularly feminine?

How many cis women have hang ups about their body not being feminine enough and indeed, how many cis women have expensive and sometimes risky surgery in order to become closer to some mythological ideal of feminine?

In fact, how many cis women can be incredibly feminine and over girly?

The answer is quite a lot actually...and you never see girls wearing skirts or dresses? Really?

I could write a similar list for cis guys.

Why do people act over feminine or masculine? Well sometimes that's just how people are, sometimes it is playing a role and that is usually down to having insecurities and feeling you have to prove yourself for what ever reasons. Being trans doesn't give us a monopoly on being insecure and neurotic, if you're going to judge one part of the human race so harshly...judge them all.

What she said!! Good points, VERY well made

I agree with both Helena and Virginia Marie, but I also think it's partly about being disadvantaged by having a masculine body.

If I wore a simple pair of skinny jeans and t-shirt out without makeup people would interact with me as if I were a guy. Part of gender is how the world interacts with you, so I may need to give a nod to a few gender stereotypes to flag to others that it feels more natural for me to interact with you as a woman.

Oh and before you strip away my agency and say I am a victim of gender constructs, I wear feminine clothes because I like them. Funnily enough the same reason my ex wore uber feminine clothes.

Now that's not to say I'd wear a ball gown to a Sunday brunch, and I agree many transgendered people make fashion faux pas, but to reprise Helena's argument, so do many teenage girls who are new to expressing themselves through fashion.

 Helena summed it up perfectly.  ;)

It's summer here, and a skirt is just so much cooler than even a pair of shorts.  I like the feeling of freedom it gives me too. Not overboard, but age and situation appropriate.

It seems to me that, in order to be taken seriously by the general public, trans people have to conform to the gender stereotypes of their target sex.  Otherwise it's like, "How can you be trans?  You're too feminine, you don't act like a boy" or whatever.

Quote from: Ribbons on February 20, 2011, 09:17:03 PM
I've noticed that a lot, and other people have to. MtF tend to be feminine, and FtM masculine (or at least just stereotypically boyish). I know how girls tend to be, and boys will be boys, but it's a bit weird.
Plus, is it me or do quite a few transwoman like to wear feminine clothing.. A lot? I don't see girls wearing skirts or dresses much honestly; ever actually, unless it's a party or a part of the uniform. 

You don't see that many tomboyish MtF or feminine FtM, as you would with cisgendered people. I've heard people on another trans-related forum say that it seems like a lot of people play up the stereotypes rather then being themselves.

I have to agree, to an extent. Few gfemales wear dresses or makup, habitually, though some do.

I know, when I was younger, my own preference would be to wear dresses, experiment with makeup and such. Thinking back, I would have been trying to affirm my identity. To myself as much as anyone else.

But appearance is more than showing off or attracting attention. It's about getting the feedback from society, that you feel comfortable with.

Think of two entirely different sets of clothing. Say, a boiler suit and a formal ensemble. The feedback you'll get from either is going to be different, in almost any social situation. I don't think it's gender stereotype as such. It's more about getting feedback that makes you feel comfortable.

During my time living as female, I went into shops and such. I was treated like a young woman, going shopping. The feedback was very different than would happen you a young man.

Now my only real ambition is to get the ugly bit removed.

I don't think it's just people like us, I've seen it in many others too. It is probably societal influence to fit stereotypes. Some people don't feel comfortable unless they fit them, and some people just happen to like the things so they'd do it anyway. It's probably those people that the stereotypes came from.

I was initially pressured to be like that too, all stereotypically feminine, but it didn't really stick. I'm just me. I'd have probably been a "tomboy" even if born without this condition. Maybe it's my experiences, or maybe my personality, but I'm just not willing to go to alot of effort to attempt to physically appear in the precise ways that other people want me to. Would they go to such extents to make me comfortable? Yeah, right...

I think we all go through various phases during our transitions very much like what teenagers experience while finding themselves

I've been going through my closet and sorting what's staying and what's going to go either on the free table or out to the bin... This started out mostly because I'd gained a few pounds
(oink, oink)  :laugh:

Anyway, I would come across stuff I'd forgotten about and think "Did I actually intend to wear this?"  :laugh:  and decide it was either too boppy or too cheesy

Now I feel like I have a fairly well balanced wardrobe that can be pulled from to suit any occasion from dressing up to go out or for the work place or for casual wear

It all says woman... But maybe I'm sorting out and defining that woman a bit...

Hecks, I got my thermal tops on sale for like 1/2 price from Victoria's Secret  :laugh:

We can't pass summary judgments on people and say they are taking on a disguise because we don't personally agree with how they like to dress.  Clothes make neither the man nor the woman.  By definition it is impossible for a woman to act "too feminine".  The very notion seems oxymoronic.  Any woman can act as feminine as she wants, unless one is somehow under the impression that women of transsexual history are something less than female.

Probably as Virginia said, in the early stages of transition some may tend to overcompensate for years of deprivation from being their true selves by exaggerating their appearance. But there comes a point when you are every bit as content and secure in your sex/gender identity as anyone ever was, and you really couldn't care less what other people think about it anymore.  My femininity lies in the simple fact that I'm a woman, not whether I wear women's or men's clothing, or happen to like the colour pink (I do, and I almost always wear dresses).

Celebrate who you are to the fullest extent you are able in whatever way makes you feel good about yourself, and if the gender police want to get their knickers in a twist over that then I would think that would be their problem.

I don't think this is true.  Watch "She's a boy I knew" to get a sense of how a transwoman might need to wear more feminine things early on in their transition to give people no doubts as to their gender identity and then it settles later.

Also the media tends to pick up on the late transitioner who might get dressed up to be on the news.

It's hard to feel comfortable in jeans when you don't like your ass or your crotch isn't flat enough but if you look around this site....most of the photos of women who've transitioned are wearing what any woman would wear.

It actually mentally held any thoughts of transition back.  I am not a super feminine person but I held on to the stereotypes that I wouldn't need to be...it's just not true.

I consider myself a tomboyish mtf who likes eye makeup, playing footy, romantic movies, cute hoodies and playing video games. I hate catiness and a room full only of women scares me. I like getting dressed up but I would rather hang out in jeans and jumpers. I am submissive but I like to control other areas of my life. I don't like other people doing things for me that I can do myself, such as opening the door or taking my coat.

We only have to be ourselves. Regardless of being trans or cis, never let anyone put you in a box.

I think your observation applies to pre-op and non-op people more than those who are done and dusted.

There are, I believe, two reasons. Historically the gatekeepers used to insist that we behaved in such a way or they would not approve us for surgery, although happily that is now a lot less common than it was. Secondly when you are pre surgery I think sometimes the dysphoria makes you reach for more stereotypical behaviours in order to reinforce your own feelings of belonging to that gender despite the physical limitations.

Since my surgery I have definitely been a gender chameleon, which is just a fancy way of saying I do what I like. I can go drinking with the boys or have an emotional film night with the girls.

That said I am a practical down to earth low maintenance, no makeup, no frills, tunic and jeans kind of girl. So actually I am pretty gender neutral and a long way from any stereotype.

Quote from: Sylvester on February 21, 2011, 11:31:58 AM
It seems to me that, in order to be taken seriously by the general public, trans people have to conform to the gender stereotypes of their target sex.  Otherwise it's like, "How can you be trans?  You're too feminine, you don't act like a boy" or whatever.

You all make very good points...
If I was a normal girl... I would not have to prove anything... and I would probably wear more masculine clothes because I could get away with them....Masculine clothes accent masculinity.... and that is something you cant always get away with as a M2F. while well chosen feminine clothes hide masculine features of the body.

Also I have a very feminine character, sensitive etc, it always saddens me when people think I wear clothes to be a stereotype instead of myself...

I am always just me...
just like anyone else...
with the difference that I always seem to have to explain why I act a certain way or wear certain clothes...

No normal woman gets these kind of questions....

I am just trying to be who I really am, as hard as I can....and it just does not all come naturally for me so you make different choices in clothes. Transwoman always seem to have to prove over and over again that they are woman... and no matter what you do, there will always be someone thinking you are going about it the wrong way,
and that is only because they dont understand.

Birgitta

Quote from: Rabbit on February 20, 2011, 10:35:56 PM
My suggestion, is to sit around naked. No makeup, no nothing, no one around but yourself. And THEN ask yourself how you feel. Do you feel feminine (or masculine for ftm)? Or do you NEED all those "uniform extra's" in order to make you feel that way?

I think this right here as been one of the things that has weighed so heavily on my mind when considering to transition or not to. I'll admit that I have had my days where I've gotten all dressed up and I've even spent a lot of time with fake breasts when I'm at home cleaning or what ever. But in the end I don't feel I have to be like that every day. I'm sitting here right now in jeans, a t-shirt and hoodie smoking a cigarette. I haven't shaved in a few days and my hair is just tied back in a tail. I don't feel any different now then I would be if I spent all morning cleaning myself up and wearing different clothes.

I would love nothing more then to have been born a female. But it's daunting to think about how much change I would have to make, not only to my body but to my social environment in order to feel comfortable in my own skin, let alone be able to feel comfortable leaving my house and being viewed and accepted by others in society as a woman.

I understand the draw some people feel for making themselves as comfortable as possible. I know a lot of cis women that wont even answer the door unless they feel comfortable in how they look (my mother is one of them). For myself, I could see insecurity (not saying anyone who works hard at looking the role is insecure) being one of the things that would drive me to wear makeup every day and making sure I have some borderline obsessively (just shy of explosively) cute purse or shirt on to help drive the image into people's minds on how I view myself. I don't think I would ever be able to just get out of bed, rake a brush through my hair and leave the house to be able to hit the first woman's public restroom I could find and not be able to lose my nerve to barge right in to use it.

Could I transition and leave the house wearing jeans, a shirt and shoes meant for women (granted at least some kind of purse would be a must)? I just couldn't say. That would all depend on how well the transition went.