...ya can't pass with it? All ya get is acne, some unwanted hair in some places you don't want it, baldness, ect... what's the point of T if your not gunna pass as male with it? I've been on T for a little over 6 months now and I just got back from the store and while I was checking out, the girl kept calling me ma'm. I wanted to die when she was doing that. I didn't feel comfortable correcting her b/c she saw me as female and other people were around, it was so embarrassing. I thought at 6 months I would be passing. Apparently not. I was dressed in black jeans and a black shirt with writing and a black jacket. And of course I was all bind up. My chest is not as flat as I want it to be, but it does pass as being flat enough. How long do you have to be on T to pass as totally male?
If and when I'm able to grow facial hair I'm doing it. I know my mom will be upset, but it's so upsetting being seen as female, especially out in public. That whole experience put me in a really bad mood. I wonder what made her see female instead of male? Even when I spoke, I still got ma'm? My voice isn't girlie anymore. I thought my voice was male? My voice isn't real deep yet, but it should pass as male. Frustrating!
When people see you as female and use female pronouns in public, do you correct them or let it go?
Depends on who you are. I'm at 8.5 months, still seen as female around 90% of the time...granted, it's slightly more often than what I had before. My comfort with some parts of my body have gotten better.
That totally sucks your still seen as female being that many months on T. Isn't that so frustrating? I'd be ready to give up on T if I'm one year and not passing. I would say a year into T you should pass. Some are passing way before a year and I wish I was too.
Glad your comfort with some parts of the body has got'n better.
Well, passing and such aside, T helps if you plan on getting top and/or bottom surgery. Also it helps with your voice, which can only really be changed by T. Same with facial hair and such.
It's incredibly frustrating...mostly because I know there's nothing I can do to change how other people view me. I did a survey not too long ago asking people when were they read as male regularly and I think it was around 98% were read as male within the first year.
Dominick, everyone's bodies change with T in their own time. Some people get changes fast, others slower. and sometimes it depends on the amount they are taking, or the amount they took initially.
If I were you, I would try not to compare myself too much with others. Your body will change at its pace.
I remembered reading in a thread here that people say the voice doesn't really completely finish lowering until about 2 years being on T. If you've only been on for a little over 6 months, I'd say you got to be patient a little while longer.
T WILL change your body and it WILL allow you to pass with it. But it takes its sweet time to get there. Just hold out hope.
That's all I can say. I am pre-T and I got to keep holding out hope that I can get on T soon and then that the changes will happen for me as well.
We are obviously far more sensitive to misgendering than cisgendered people. I know, I was, and got hugely irritated even though I knew I didn't pass.
If you guys have been on T, have your voices changed? If so, stand up, be confident, laugh, and say, hey, I'm a guy! Lots of young cis-guys, esp. heavier guys, have more feminine features. Heck, my own son gets misgendered and there is nothing feminine about him. He just gives people an eye roll when they call him 'she.' Like they're so stupid they think I'm a girl.
I'm also assuming your documentation is changed that many months on T? That shuts up a lot of people when they see male name and M on your ID.
Jay
Quote from: Dominick_81 on August 04, 2011, 03:58:33 PM
...ya can't pass with it? All ya get is acne, some unwanted hair in some places you don't want it, baldness, ect... what's the point of T if your not gunna pass as male with it? I've been on T for a little over 6 months now and I just got back from the store and while I was checking out, the girl kept calling me ma'm. I wanted to die when she was doing that. I didn't feel comfortable correcting her b/c she saw me as female and other people were around, it was so embarrassing. I thought at 6 months I would be passing. Apparently not. I was dressed in black jeans and a black shirt with writing and a black jacket. And of course I was all bind up. My chest is not as flat as I want it to be, but it does pass as being flat enough. How long do you have to be on T to pass as totally male?
If and when I'm able to grow facial hair I'm doing it. I know my mom will be upset, but it's so upsetting being seen as female, especially out in public. That whole experience put me in a really bad mood. I wonder what made her see female instead of male? Even when I spoke, I still got ma'm? My voice isn't girlie anymore. I thought my voice was male? My voice isn't real deep yet, but it should pass as male. Frustrating!
When people see you as female and use female pronouns in public, do you correct them or let it go?
for the last question I must say sadly NO, I almost never correct people when they got me female pronoucing,
I hate to correct people because I feel like im the bad guy getting angry over something they dont understand.
if I correct them they might even point out why I look so femenine and it just make me more angry. I do say im a guy if they ask but sadly I tend to be a sissy and just ignoring it, and get me out of mess.
-
being on T or not is up to you and everyones choice,
I love the chance T have made for me so far but I can diffently see your point.
I think the world are pretty unfair and some just tend to pass way more easy than others.
I know this guy, even after meeting him the very first day he got T he still looked Way more boyish than me and after having T for 3 mounth you couldnt tell,
--
I really hate the fact when I dont pass, I had everything from very maculine clothes and short hair to very long hair and femenine clothes, but when people see my face they either see, a boyish girl/a very young looking guy.
its suchs and there really nothing I can do about it..
My documents haven't changed...no name change, no gender marker change. My voice has changed but some people think I just sound like somebody who smokes...a lot.
I think that having a friend around to call other people out has been a lot of help. I feel like when I'm alone and misgendered I'm the smaller person/opinion less wanted, etc. When I have a friend that corrects others for me, I feel better...and usually safer. I actually went to dinner with a friend of mine who is also trans and has the same problem with correcting people. I told him I would correct people for him if he did the same for me. Really, it's easier, I feel safer, and I know I have support in that kind of a situation.
Quote from: Nygeel on August 04, 2011, 05:14:19 PM
My documents haven't changed...no name change, no gender marker change. My voice has changed but some people think I just sound like somebody who smokes...a lot.
I think that having a friend around to call other people out has been a lot of help. I feel like when I'm alone and misgendered I'm the smaller person/opinion less wanted, etc. When I have a friend that corrects others for me, I feel better...and usually safer. I actually went to dinner with a friend of mine who is also trans and has the same problem with correcting people. I told him I would correct people for him if he did the same for me. Really, it's easier, I feel safer, and I know I have support in that kind of a situation.
its nice when people correct themself or for others,
it also show they got respect in your, and in themself enough to suport you.
friends are very important for me in my transdition and life generally, they put me up for all my ignorance, and the crap parrents can give,
and I love them very much
If I was on T for months with little changes I would be at the doctors getting my levels checked.
T eventually makes you pass, I think, I mean it takes cismales like 10 years. Is estrogen more effective?
Quote from: Sharky on August 04, 2011, 06:23:13 PM
If I was on T for months with little changes I would be at the doctors getting my levels checked.
I definitely second this.
most people have pretty significant changes even in the first 3 months. obviously everyone reacts differently but generally people notice changes pretty quickly. I wouldn't be so quick to believe that "it must just be taking longer, but it will definitely happen" especially when you get out to the point of 3/4 to a full year. almost everyone I've seen has a beard and a Morgan Freeman voice by then. do your guys blood levels read in the male range?
Quote from: Sharky on August 04, 2011, 06:23:13 PM
If I was on T for months with little changes I would be at the doctors getting my levels checked.
Yeah, checking levels is a good idea...expensive though. Just the T-level check is like $200 for me. My insurance covers it all, but a lot of people aren't so fortunate.
I think sometimes the changes are harder to see when A.) it's yourself and you're overly critical of yourself, B.) the people around you see you everyday and they're too close to it, or C.)the people around you stick their heads in the sand and refuse to see you as a man no matter what.
Periodic video logs are very helpful for perspective, I find. You don't have to upload them anywhere, or you can make them unlisted on Youtube if you don't want them floating in the ether(net). When I'm frustrated because I get mis-gendered or am just in a self-deprecating mood, I watch the differences in the videos.
Dominick, I don't know what your voice sounds like now or what it was like pre-T, but if at 6 months you've not had significant change, I'd consider taking inventory of your other changes (hair, muscle growth, downstairs growth) and if none of it seems to have changed that noticeably, I'd look into getting your levels checked, if possible. I know we're not supposed to talk dosage here, but did your doctor mention whether your dose was a fairly standard dose, or lower?
Quote from: RyanThomas on August 04, 2011, 06:52:39 PMalmost everyone I've seen has a beard and a Morgan Freeman voice by then. do your guys blood levels read in the male range?
Nope.
Decent beard but sucky moustache and sideburns, and beard is still mostly chinstrap. I hate it.
Voice is absolutely horrible. Deeper than it was, but not deep at all. Mostly raspy. Also hate it.
And I'm 3 years on T.
I did pass starting at the 3 month mark, but I blame that mostly on my age than anything else.
Jay
Quote from: JohnAlex on August 04, 2011, 04:48:14 PM
Dominick, everyone's bodies change with T in their own time. Some people get changes fast, others slower. and sometimes it depends on the amount they are taking, or the amount they took initially.
If I were you, I would try not to compare myself too much with others. Your body will change at its pace.
I remembered reading in a thread here that people say the voice doesn't really completely finish lowering until about 2 years being on T. If you've only been on for a little over 6 months, I'd say you got to be patient a little while longer.
T WILL change your body and it WILL allow you to pass with it. But it takes its sweet time to get there. Just hold out hope.
That's all I can say. I am pre-T and I got to keep holding out hope that I can get on T soon and then that the changes will happen for me as well.
Thanks. I hope you are able to get on T soon.
Quote from: sneakersjay on August 04, 2011, 05:07:03 PM
We are obviously far more sensitive to misgendering than cisgendered people. I know, I was, and got hugely irritated even though I knew I didn't pass.
If you guys have been on T, have your voices changed? If so, stand up, be confident, laugh, and say, hey, I'm a guy! Lots of young cis-guys, esp. heavier guys, have more feminine features. Heck, my own son gets misgendered and there is nothing feminine about him. He just gives people an eye roll when they call him 'she.' Like they're so stupid they think I'm a girl.
I'm also assuming your documentation is changed that many months on T? That shuts up a lot of people when they see male name and M on your ID.
Jay
Wow, that sucks that your son gets read as female sometimes, but that's good it doesn't bother him.
I haven't had anything changed over... no money. When you get your name change is that when everything changes over, like gender?
Quote from: Sharky on August 04, 2011, 06:23:13 PM
If I was on T for months with little changes I would be at the doctors getting my levels checked.
I had my last T levels checked in February and they were in the normal male range. My next T level check is in November. Should I ask to get my T levels checked sooner?
Quote from: Natkat on August 04, 2011, 05:10:58 PM
if I correct them they might even point out why I look so femenine and it just make me more angry.
That's what I was thinking too, so I didn't say anything.
Quote from: Bahzi on August 04, 2011, 08:17:46 PM
Yeah, checking levels is a good idea...expensive though. Just the T-level check is like $200 for me. My insurance covers it all, but a lot of people aren't so fortunate.
I think sometimes the changes are harder to see when A.) it's yourself and you're overly critical of yourself, B.) the people around you see you everyday and they're too close to it, or C.)the people around you stick their heads in the sand and refuse to see you as a man no matter what.
Periodic video logs are very helpful for perspective, I find. You don't have to upload them anywhere, or you can make them unlisted on Youtube if you don't want them floating in the ether(net). When I'm frustrated because I get mis-gendered or am just in a self-deprecating mood, I watch the differences in the videos.
Dominick, I don't know what your voice sounds like now or what it was like pre-T, but if at 6 months you've not had significant change, I'd consider taking inventory of your other changes (hair, muscle growth, downstairs growth) and if none of it seems to have changed that noticeably, I'd look into getting your levels checked, if possible. I know we're not supposed to talk dosage here, but did your doctor mention whether your dose was a fairly standard dose, or lower?
As far as dosage goes, I'm not sure. She said I was in the normal male range, but I didn't need a lot of T b/c I'm small.
I don't take videos of myself, but I do takes pics so I can go back and see the changes. I don't see much b/c everyone says I look the same, only difference is my hair is shorter. My voice I think passes as male. I posted it once in the "do I pass thread" and people said it passed as a young male. I'll post another voice clip. I just got to get it onto my computer. I'll post it soon.
I keep wondering if I got read as female b/c I'm so short? But then again, I got read as male by the cashier at the pizza place like 2 months before. So, I'm really confused. Everyone is reading me differently. I didn't even think I looked female going into the store. The only things I can think of is that the cashier lady maybe thought I was a very butch lesbian. But my head isn't shaved. Maybe my hair is too short? Maybe it's bringing out some feminine features? Or my height? I'm not really sure what pegged me as female.
how tall are you?
Quote from: RyanThomas on August 04, 2011, 09:43:25 PM
how tall are you?
About 4'10
Quote from: Nygeel on August 04, 2011, 05:14:19 PM
My documents haven't changed...no name change, no gender marker change. My voice has changed but some people think I just sound like somebody who smokes...a lot.
I think that having a friend around to call other people out has been a lot of help. I feel like when I'm alone and misgendered I'm the smaller person/opinion less wanted, etc. When I have a friend that corrects others for me, I feel better...and usually safer. I actually went to dinner with a friend of mine who is also trans and has the same problem with correcting people. I told him I would correct people for him if he did the same for me. Really, it's easier, I feel safer, and I know I have support in that kind of a situation.
That's a good idea, have the friend correct the person, that way you don't have to feel uncomfortable correcting the person yourself.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on August 04, 2011, 10:02:17 PM
About 4'10
I don't mean to make you upset but I think your height may be the deal breaker. until you absolutely definitely looked like an adult male, I would either assume you are female or a primary school aged boy. if your doctor says your t levels are fine, then I suppose you do just have to be patient.
not everyone develops so fast, six months isnt that long, some people take a few years to fully pass
Quote from: RyanThomas on August 04, 2011, 10:15:11 PM
I don't mean to make you upset but I think your height may be the deal breaker. until you absolutely definitely looked like an adult male, I would either assume you are female or a primary school aged boy. if your doctor says your t levels are fine, then I suppose you do just have to be patient.
It's okay. I was thinking that too. It sucks to be short.
Quote from: Elijah on August 04, 2011, 10:18:55 PM
not everyone develops so fast, six months isnt that long, some people take a few years to fully pass
A few years, really? That sucks. I feel like I'm 50 -50 on passing. But I get really frustrated when someone see's me as female. I just ruins my whole day.
I would get them checked since its been so long since you have. I would also do it ASP. I agree that height is a deal breaker. I've seen a cis woman misgendered just because she was tall. They guy said that he just noticed they were tall and instantly thought guy and didn't even look at their face.
Quote from: Sharky on August 04, 2011, 11:39:22 PM
I would get them checked since its been so long since you have. I would also do it ASP. I agree that height is a deal breaker. I've seen a cis woman misgendered just because she was tall. They guy said that he just noticed they were tall and instantly thought guy and didn't even look at their face.
I can ask the nurse in 2 weeks when I get my shot if she can ask the doctor if I can get my T levels checked this month. How come asap?
It's ASAP because I would want to get the correct dose and the changes that go with it as soon as possible instead of wasting my time and money. This is your health. Don't ask, take charge. Demand and communicate. I would find no change unacceptable a month in. I don't know how much trans experience your doctor has, but it doesn't take much research to get an idea how fast the average FTM experiences changes and you are obviously not on track. . You need to communicate what's going on with your doctor. He needs to know if realistic expectations of your treatment aren't being met so he can adjust the approach.
Everybody passes...eventually. Some are more fortunate than others. Some sprout facial hair in a few months, others a few years. Same with every other change.
If you get your T levels checked make sure you do it between shots so you are not getting peaks and valleys. That would be important for your test results.
Quote from: Sharky on August 05, 2011, 12:43:10 AM
It's ASAP because I would want to get the correct dose and the changes that go with it as soon as possible instead of wasting my time and money. This is your health. Don't ask, take charge. Demand and communicate. I would find no change unacceptable a month in. I don't know how much trans experience your doctor has, but it doesn't take much research to get an idea how fast the average FTM experiences changes and you are obviously not on track. . You need to communicate what's going on with your doctor. He needs to know if realistic expectations of your treatment aren't being met so he can adjust the approach.
ic. I'm kinda shy when it comes to speaking up. I'll probably just wait until my next shot and ask the nurse about it.
I do have some changes, like my voice and hair. My voice is not as deep as I want it, but people here are saying I still got time for it to get deeper. It's hard to tell since I see myself all the time and people who don't see me all the time don't say anything so I'm not sure if they notice or not, and they don't know I'm trans either. My counselor keeps telling me my is voice is getting deeper every time I see her and that's like once a month. I get the peach fuzz on my face, so I've been shaving that off. It's hard to tell if changes are coming. I look at pics to compare, but it's still hard for me to tell. I think maybe fat distribution has changed a little bit. But can't tell if it's weight gain or fat distribution?
There's one guy on youtube, that looks exactly the same pre T and 1 year later on T.. The only thing I noticed about him was his voice was deeper. I think it's all about haircuts and hairstyle change too.
Quote from: Jigsaw on August 05, 2011, 03:40:07 PM
If you get your T levels checked make sure you do it between shots so you are not getting peaks and valleys. That would be important for your test results.
Thanks. Like 2 or 3 days after the shot or a week? I get my shot every other week.
I have a friend who says he took something like a year and a half. I think it's because he had other characteristics that people read as feminine. Even now, more than five years in, he has a lot of qualities in his speech and hand gestures that people tend to interpret as "feminine," so they read him as gay. He complains about it sometimes but doesn't make any effort to change his patterns. I figure that it isn't important enough to him; he is obviously male (the beard helps), so why bother?
I guess my point is that if you do have such characteristics and want a better chance of being read as male, you might think it's worth your while to change those features. Then again, maybe not. But if you do work on those features, don't be surprised if it turns out to be wasted effort six months from now. T alone can work wonders if you wait long enough.
But some guys need more than just T; another thing that can help is attitude and confidence level. T might be the cake, but attitude can be the icing. If people call you she and you get embarrassed and sink into yourself, or if you are unsure of yourself, people can often read that--and they will tend to read it as female more often than not. And if someone calls you she and you don't correct that person, most people (including bystanders) will go along with that. The self-confidence should come over time, but you can help it along, too, with some positive self-talk.
I know it's hard to hear--believe me, I wanted my changes to come as soon as possible--but you have to give it time. And sometimes the inner work is as important (or almost as important) as the outer work.
Quote from: Arch on August 05, 2011, 08:34:34 PM
I have a friend who says he took something like a year and a half. I think it's because he had other characteristics that people read as feminine. Even now, more than five years in, he has a lot of qualities in his speech and hand gestures that people tend to interpret as "feminine," so they read him as gay. He complains about it sometimes but doesn't make any effort to change his patterns. I figure that it isn't important enough to him; he is obviously male (the beard helps), so why bother?
I guess my point is that if you do have such characteristics and want a better chance of being read as male, you might think it's worth your while to change those features. Then again, maybe not. But if you do work on those features, don't be surprised if it turns out to be wasted effort six months from now. T alone can work wonders if you wait long enough.
But some guys need more than just T; another thing that can help is attitude and confidence level. T might be the cake, but attitude can be the icing. If people call you she and you get embarrassed and sink into yourself, or if you are unsure of yourself, people can often read that--and they will tend to read it as female more often than not. And if someone calls you she and you don't correct that person, most people (including bystanders) will go along with that. The self-confidence should come over time, but you can help it along, too, with some positive self-talk.
I know it's hard to hear--believe me, I wanted my changes to come as soon as possible--but you have to give it time. And sometimes the inner work is as important (or almost as important) as the outer work.
Yeah, facial hair will definitely make it easier for passing. I'm not girlie in anyway. So I don't think that's what gave me away. I'm thinking it was my height. The cashier just saw a short person in the other line and said, " I can help you over here ma'm" before I even turned around, but still kept calling me ma'm after seeing my face. I really don't think I have a famine face, but the height thing might have killed it for me, and possibly the voice afterwards.
I do agree about the attitude thing. People will go alone with whatever someone calls you. I believe if you say you are male, people will believe you as long as you have confidence and don't doubt yourself for a minute.
Dominick, I know a couple of really short trans guys. One of them is early in transition--about two years in--and he is still misread occasionally, even though he has obvious facial hair. Then again, he has very dark skin, so the facial hair isn't as obvious until you're up close. I think his height is a major factor.
But the other guy transitioned late in life, maybe eight years ago. He is now in his fifties. NOBODY questions him. In fact, I know of one gay guy who was ready to duke it out when someone said that the trans guy was in fact trans. The gay guy found it that unbelievable. The height just isn't a factor, although it might have been at one time.
Adolescence is a slow process, and we FTMs have a number of disadvantages that young cis boys don't have. We have to overcome/reverse years or even decades of feminization. They don't. It's not just T, though--you'll "grow into yourself" and get more and more confident and comfortable. But you'll get there, believe me. Maybe quite soon.
They all have great advice so I've got nothing to add there but Elijah and a couple others I believe mentioned that it takes longer for some guys and I'm one of them.
Around 6 months my voice had only dropped a small amount and other than a little muscle mass there wasn't any real obvious change but doing videos for myself and pictures has helped. In the last month and a half or so (7 1/2 months on T) has been when my voice has really shown change & other changes have become obvious.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on August 04, 2011, 03:58:33 PM
How long do you have to be on T to pass as totally male?
It's different for everyone. There is no set amount of time.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on August 04, 2011, 03:58:33 PM
When people see you as female and use female pronouns in public, do you correct them or let it go?
If I know them and they still aren't getting it right (this is mostly coworkers that I never interact with) I correct them.
I think I pass most of the time (Don't know because I don't get people using pronouns with me) and I'm a year and a month on T. If there is one thing that helps me pass it's constantly wearing shorts with hairy legs, it and I think it's safer for people to assume I'm a guy even if they aren't sure rather than thinking about woman actually having hairy legs. My endo said give your voice at least 5 years to change. I think we all expect to see changes so quickly but honestly at 6 months things started standing still for me, I didn't start getting facial hair until 9 months on T. I also know how you feel about being short, the last time I went with my mum to the store and there was a self checkout the woman said treated me like a child asking if I was having fun. I spend a lot of time avoiding going out right now because of this and still feeling like I don't pass 100% even if it is a possible 60%. Also I never correct anyone, it just makes me too uncomfortable and if they are strangers I couldn't care less since chances are I probably won't see them again.
how well you pass also got alot to say about where you are.
ex, I just been to comic conventions where many girls where dressing up as guys,
and it very VERY hard to pass because many also had binded there chest and so on..
I told a trans man that was upset about their beard growth 5 years into T that it took me from the time I started puberty to the time I was 25 to be able to develop a respectable beard (if I wanted one). My T levels were around 470 when I started transition. That's at least 10 to 12 years. It also took that long for it to (as a trans woman) begin altering me in the most unacceptable and irreversible manners: finalizing the setting of my masculine features, contributing to hair loss, and destroying my complexion... (I started HRT just in time!)
So, a full puberty takes a decade or more. A few months is enough to see some results, I'm sure, but probably nothing astronomical. Gotta keep trying hard to do it yourself, even with a little T relief.
For the love of ....
All right I don't want to get into an argument. I'm just going to state the obvious for the record once again. Going on T so you will pass to other people is NOT a good reason to go on T. In my humble opinion.
Goodnight and Good Luck
That being said I've been on T for 14 or 15 months and still don't pass 100%. I pass 99.9%. I was misgendered the other day because I was upset. I was at a Calver's with my cousin and I was discussing my messed up family situation with her. This caused me to lose my appetite so I went to the counter to ask for a take away box. The cashier refereed to me as 'her'. That was the first time in a long time. However I understand why because confidence is key. Since I looked like I was about to burst into tears it wasn't my manliest moment.
Usually it's getting better and better in that regard. Service personal are beginning to refer to me as 'Sir' quite often which tells me I completely pass to them. Before they wouldn't refer to me at all because they didn't want to get it wrong.
I made a commitment to myself to ALWAYS correct people who get it wrong. I do it out of personal respect for MYSELF. I deserve to be seen for who I am. If someone gets it wrong I correct them firmly and make sure they understand.
squirrel while i understand and respect what you're trying to say, you have to remember that some people's social dysphoria is worse than their physical dysphoria, and that doesn't mean that they deserve any less access to medication that will help them with that than others.
Quote from: RyanThomas on August 08, 2011, 01:13:44 PM
squirrel while i understand and respect what you're trying to say, you have to remember that some people's social dysphoria is worse than their physical dysphoria, and that doesn't mean that they deserve any less access to medication that will help them with that than others.
Seconded. I was pretty okay with my body but absolutely hated never being seen as male. I waited about 6 years in an attempt to do other things to help my situation but it didn't work so I went with T.
My opinion is only my opinion and should only be taken as my opinion even if it's not your opinion.
The reason I went on T in the first place is because I realized to myself that I was in fact living for others. I was more concerned with my mother's image before the family than I was with my own personal happiness. Once I started living for myself than I was able to have a much more fulfilling life. It's nice that I pass as male to others. It is however much more powerful that I pass to myself.
I personally don't think Dominick should be risking his health, hair and longevity just so others will view him a certain way. I think that is a one way road to major disappointment and depression. For a major life change like this you should do it for yourself or else you are counting on others to vindicate your decision. That will never work out well because they don't care about you as much as they care about themselves.
I told him this before he went on T when he was so concerned about the side effects he is experiencing and complaining about right now. If he can't see what the point of T is if you only get acne he shouldn't be on it.
again, I understand and respect what you're saying but I highly doubt Dominic feels completely like what he conveyed in the original post. I think he is probably on t for just as "right" of a reason as any of us, but is simply feeling frustrated and disappointed right now. he is allowed to feel both and express that as he wishes.
I think I understand what squirrel is saying. If he doesn't want the changes that comes with T then he shouldn't be on it. If the cons for him out weigh the pros and he isn't happy then it's probably not the best idea. In a few months he could be an acne ridden wookie and if that's worse for him then his current state and he doesn't want the changes for him self then he should probably hold off the T.
Quote from: RyanThomas on August 08, 2011, 01:51:11 PM
again, I understand and respect what you're saying but I highly doubt Dominic feels completely like what he conveyed in the original post. I think he is probably on t for just as "right" of a reason as any of us, but is simply feeling frustrated and disappointed right now. he is allowed to feel both and express that as he wishes.
Agreed. Thanks Ryan.
Quote from: Squirrel698 on August 08, 2011, 01:32:35 PM
My opinion is only my opinion and should only be taken as my opinion even if it's not your opinion.
The reason I went on T in the first place is because I realized to myself that I was in fact living for others. I was more concerned with my mother's image before the family than I was with my own personal happiness. Once I started living for myself than I was able to have a much more fulfilling life. It's nice that I pass as male to others. It is however much more powerful that I pass to myself.
I personally don't think Dominick should be risking his health, hair and longevity just so others will view him a certain way. I think that is a one way road to major disappointment and depression. For a major life change like this you should do it for yourself or else you are counting on others to vindicate your decision. That will never work out well because they don't care about you as much as they care about themselves.
I told him this before he went on T when he was so concerned about the side effects he is experiencing and complaining about right now. If he can't see what the point of T is if you only get acne he shouldn't be on it.
I understand what your saying. Getting on T wasn't an easy decision for me. I saw a priest before I got on T. I waited months after I got my first script to start it. What I was waiting for was my mom's approval or acceptance, but I knew I was never gunna get it. I did this for me and so everyone will see me for who I really am. The thought of being trapped in a female body kills me. This was something I had to do to move forward in life. I can't see myself living as female. That's just not me. Although, I feel right now ( b/c of my situation... no money) I'm living a double life in way. Around my family I'm female, not presenting as female, but to them I'm female. (with the exception of my cousins and friends who are trying and using correct pronouns and name/nickname) Around my families friends and out in public they refer to me as she and my real name. I absolutely hate it, but there's nothing I can do right now, not everyone knows I'm trans and if anyone of my mom's friends or grandmother's friends found out they would be embarrassed. Although, my mom did tell one of her friends b/c she was afraid of the side effects of T and what it would do to me. My family is not accepting or un-accepting... they accept me, but not as male. I mean, they will always love me no matter what even if I'm Dominick, they just can't deal/accept it right now. But their not gunna disown me.
I was really upset when the lady called me ma'm, and I thought I was on my way to passing since everyone in the "do I pass thread" kept telling me I passed pretty well. It was just frustrating for me to hear that. Of course I don't want to risk my health, lose my hair and I'm frustrated with acne, but I'm taking steps to treat the acne b/c I want to be seen for who I really am. When I notice my hair falling out I will take a pill to keep it from falling out. I will take the steps I need to take to make this work for me. Unfortunately, I have no job and no money so I'm stuck at home. But I feel so much better being on T, aside from the acne. I know someday I will pass 100%. The changes are just coming a little slower than most people.
A question: Don't most people take T so they can pass to others? I'm not understanding what you mean that I'm only taking T to pass to others? Isn't that the point of taking T? So you can pass as male? Other than that, I'm confused what other reasons are there for an FtM to take T besides passing as male?
Quote from: Sharky on August 08, 2011, 02:49:19 PM
I think I understand what squirrel is saying. If he doesn't want the changes that comes with T then he shouldn't be on it. If the cons for him out weigh the pros and he isn't happy then it's probably not the best idea. In a few months he could be an acne ridden wookie and if that's worse for him then his current state and he doesn't want the changes for him self then he should probably hold off the T.
I do want the changes. I'm waiting for changes that's why I'm frustrated, I'm not seeing any changes. My changes are coming a lot slower than others, but that could be due to my dosage.
Quote from: CB on August 08, 2011, 03:40:40 PM
I think some people benefit from T because it seems more natural to them, so it would be good even if they never passed.
That could be true. My reason to get on T was to help me pass and get some of the effects. Like a deeper voice, facial hair, more muscle, fat distribution.
I think my original post was taken wrong by some.
Dom- I think squirrel views the ultimate reason for going on t is to be comfortable with your own body, rather than just having OTHERS be comfortable with your body. he's right, that you shouldn't make drastic life changes simply for others, but I don't think you're doing that. you're simply disappointed right now that what you expected and wanted so much to happen hasn't happened yet, and that's perfectly normal. I think it's quite clear that you're not shallow from your posts, but squirrel is right that ultimately you have to be happy in your own skin no matter what others may think, even if that's difficult and frustrating.
Quote from: RyanThomas on August 08, 2011, 04:23:54 PM
Dom- I think squirrel views the ultimate reason for going on t is to be comfortable with your own body, rather than just having OTHERS be comfortable with your body. he's right, that you shouldn't make drastic life changes simply for others, but I don't think you're doing that. you're simply disappointed right now that what you expected and wanted so much to happen hasn't happened yet, and that's perfectly normal. I think it's quite clear that you're not shallow from your posts, but squirrel is right that ultimately you have to be happy in your own skin no matter what others may think, even if that's difficult and frustrating.
I see. Okay, I understand now. I agree. That's all part of it for me too, to feel comfortable in my own body. I'm extremely uncomfortable in my body. Especially with these tumors on my chest. I want my surgery so bad. I feel I'll never get it cause I have no job and no money. Am I the only one who feels like they will never get their surgery?
Yes, that's VERY true, I'm not shallow at all. I'm picky when it comes to myself. Not about others.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on August 08, 2011, 04:16:24 PM
A question: Don't most people take T so they can pass to others? I'm not understanding what you mean that I'm only taking T to pass to others? Isn't that the point of taking T? So you can pass as male? Other than that, I'm confused what other reasons are there for an FtM to take T besides passing as male?
I take T..
1) to pass, body hair, muscle, etc
2) because the way the hormone reacts with my body and spirit and make everything click together, in other words its the right "fuel" for my body
3) the mental effects it has, aggression, confidence, less emotion, more control over what i am thinking and feeling
Quote from: RyanThomas on August 08, 2011, 04:23:54 PM
Dom- I think squirrel views the ultimate reason for going on t is to be comfortable with your own body, rather than just having OTHERS be comfortable with your body. he's right, that you shouldn't make drastic life changes simply for others, but I don't think you're doing that. you're simply disappointed right now that what you expected and wanted so much to happen hasn't happened yet, and that's perfectly normal. I think it's quite clear that you're not shallow from your posts, but squirrel is right that ultimately you have to be happy in your own skin no matter what others may think, even if that's difficult and frustrating.
Yes exactly Ryan. :) You Rock.
I don't think you are shallow Dom. If I did I wouldn't be spending so much time typing up messages to you. I just care about you because you are posting here and asking for help. I want you to have the best outcome possible for you.
Another thing to remember is that Right Now is Not Forever. Even if you can't afford top surgery right now it doesn't mean you never will be able to. The next corner of your life could hold amazing surprises.
Wonderful things can happen if you are open to them. That's how it works for me at least. Elijah is right. It's all about finding the harmony within yourself.
Umm ... so ... your doctor told you you didn't need a lot of T because your short?? Did anyone else catch that? ... I'm 5'7" but because my normal levels are so high, I only required .50 dosage (and that's of the 100mg/ml liquid, not the normal 200mg/ml stuff ... which would mean my dosage would be .25 on that) ... and my levels are actually a little high after my first check. I'm not really sure how much height has an affect on how much you get ... I would ask for a recheck, and ask for the ACTUALLY level, not just the dr's opinion if it's good or not...
I take T because estrogen and progesterone made me crazy. Literally. That stuff is toxic sh*t! Unless you are a woman, of course. Which I am not.
Jay
Quote from: Squirrel698 on August 08, 2011, 05:42:36 PM
Yes exactly Ryan. :) You Rock.
I don't think you are shallow Dom. If I did I wouldn't be spending so much time typing up messages to you. I just care about you because you are posting here and asking for help. I want you to have the best outcome possible for you.
Another thing to remember is that Right Now is Not Forever. Even if you can't afford top surgery right now it doesn't mean you never will be able to. The next corner of your life could hold amazing surprises.
Wonderful things can happen if you are open to them. That's how it works for me at least. Elijah is right. It's all about finding the harmony within yourself.
Thanks Squirrel698. :)
Quote from: Elijah on August 08, 2011, 05:03:45 PM
I take T..
1) to pass, body hair, muscle, etc
2) because the way the hormone reacts with my body and spirit and make everything click together, in other words its the right "fuel" for my body
3) the mental effects it has, aggression, confidence, less emotion, more control over what i am thinking and feeling
Agreed. I haven't really experienced the mental effects... I don't think.
Quote from: Logan on August 08, 2011, 05:51:58 PM
Umm ... so ... your doctor told you you didn't need a lot of T because your short?? Did anyone else catch that? ... I'm 5'7" but because my normal levels are so high, I only required .50 dosage (and that's of the 100mg/ml liquid, not the normal 200mg/ml stuff ... which would mean my dosage would be .25 on that) ... and my levels are actually a little high after my first check. I'm not really sure how much height has an affect on how much you get ... I would ask for a recheck, and ask for the ACTUALLY level, not just the dr's opinion if it's good or not...
Yep. That's what she said. Also, I think b/c I told her how concern I was about the acne, that maybe she wanted to get my body use to the T so acne wouldn't be so out of control? Not sure. My 1st T level check was too high. My 2nd T level check she told me it was in the normal male range. I don't even know what the normal male range is so I wouldn't know if it's good or not. I just trust that the doctor knows what she is doing and go with it. Who would I ask besides my doctor if my T levels are good or not?
Hang in there, I feel your pain. It's aggravating having to stick yourself in the thigh with a long ass needle 2-4 times a month for months and to not see results you're expecting.
I'm 5 months and 3 weeks on T and I pass 50/50. Recently I've started passing 100% on the phone. Hopefully by a year, I'll start passing 100%. Even if I still don't pass, I'll keep taking T because it just feels right and it'll happen eventually... :3
Maybe you should consider going to weekly instead of bi-weekly ... it should help keep your levels ... well ... consistent. I can't imagine doing bi-weekly ... I'm a miserable jerkoff the day before I'm do ... and I'm on weekly.
I do mine bi-weekly and I couldn't imagine doing it every week. Maybe because I've been on T for almost 2 years that just seems more of a hassle to do it every week.
When I first started T I was irritable a day or two before my shots as well but I also found that my changes were more noticeable right before the next shot so it does stay in your system for 14 days consistently enough with the right dose.
Puberty is a slow process. Guys age at different rates, and this applies to transmen too.
I honestly don't care about passing. I just want my voice to deepen, and I want to grow a Soul Patch.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on August 04, 2011, 03:58:33 PM
...ya can't pass with it? All ya get is acne, some unwanted hair in some places you don't want it, baldness, ect... what's the point of T if your not gunna pass as male with it? I've been on T for a little over 6 months now and I just got back from the store and while I was checking out, the girl kept calling me ma'm. I wanted to die when she was doing that. I didn't feel comfortable correcting her b/c she saw me as female and other people were around, it was so embarrassing. I thought at 6 months I would be passing. Apparently not. I was dressed in black jeans and a black shirt with writing and a black jacket. And of course I was all bind up. My chest is not as flat as I want it to be, but it does pass as being flat enough. How long do you have to be on T to pass as totally male?
If and when I'm able to grow facial hair I'm doing it. I know my mom will be upset, but it's so upsetting being seen as female, especially out in public. That whole experience put me in a really bad mood. I wonder what made her see female instead of male? Even when I spoke, I still got ma'm? My voice isn't girlie anymore. I thought my voice was male? My voice isn't real deep yet, but it should pass as male. Frustrating!
When people see you as female and use female pronouns in public, do you correct them or let it go?
I understand your frustration.
I've been on T for three months. I'm doing it because I want to be seen as male by other people. I am starting to pass in some situations, but not others. It really depends. I am patient on most days, and sometimes I am not, and I need to remind myself that like everything else in life, this is a process and it takes time (and it depends on my genes, which I cannot control). I know FTMs who still get called 'Ma'm' occasionally after years on T. So, I'm trying not to fret too much for now. It'll take however long it takes, and the most important thing for me right now is that my partner and my friends see me as male.
I do not correct strangers right now. I really believe in being gracious and compassionate towards those who perceive me as female. Not judging other FTMs who might feel differently, but this is just the way I handle these things in my own life. I will probably start correcting people when it feels important to me once I get my legal name change.
Quote from: Caseyy on August 10, 2011, 08:16:05 PM
I have a male friend who I used to work with, he had really long hair and wore pink shirts. People always said "oh, excuse me young lady..." and one guy even spanked his ass in the store. Trust me, totally priceless when he turns around and says "yes, how can I help you?" Used to be running jokes between us as I was sometimes "mistaken" for male from the back. :)
haha! im growing out my hair, i wonder if that will happen to me
Quote from: sneakersjay on August 08, 2011, 06:07:15 PM
I take T because estrogen and progesterone made me crazy. Literally. That stuff is toxic sh*t! Unless you are a woman, of course. Which I am not.
Jay
Men have measurable levels of estrogen and imbalances in those levels can lead to disease, etc. but if they're in balance, you're healthy and fine. I truly believe it's hormone imbalances that cause a lot of problems. For plenty of trans guys, bringing up their testosterone levels is what makes them feel more in balance. But whether you're male or female you've got both types of hormones. For me, more testosterone put me way out of balance. There may be an "average" out there that medical people subscribe to, but I think each body is different. What may be toxic to one person, another person might be ok with. The real issue is discovering what the balance is.
As for what's the point of it, well it's personalized obviously. It's mental and it effects your body. If it helps you to live a happier life and it isn't super detrimental to your overall health, then that is the benefit you get from it. It won't magically transform you as if you were born into a perfect male body, but if you can't live with the rest of society dealing with you as if you were a women and have no chance of "passing" with out, again it might benefit you.
Quote from: Caseyy on August 11, 2011, 12:49:48 AM
Maybe Elijah! Wouldn't it be totally validating though, when people stumble over themselves to correct their mistake. :)
totally! haha
Hmm well for me personally the 'point' of T is to stop having periods, stop sounding like a girl and get the correct muscle and fat distribution for my identity. It's not really about passing when out and about (though that would be nice too). It's more about being comfortable looking in a mirror and inhabiting your own form.
Quote from: Alessandro on August 11, 2011, 03:56:51 AM
Hmm well for me personally the 'point' of T is to stop having periods, stop sounding like a girl and get the correct muscle and fat distribution for my identity. It's not really about passing when out and about (though that would be nice too). It's more about being comfortable looking in a mirror and inhabiting your own form.
This is how I feel too.
So true Alessandro, my thoughts, to get rid on my red tide every month would be the greatest. Then having the correct voice would make talking with others so much easier. And having the correct contours on your body to be a true guy.
Quote from: mm on August 11, 2011, 09:54:33 AM
So true Alessandro, my thoughts, to get rid on my red tide every month would be the greatest. Then having the correct voice would make talking with others so much easier. And having the correct contours on your body to be a true guy.
ok i understand the sentiment and also what you were trying to say, but the way you said it was just DUMB. you're telling me that any man with a curve in his waist or wider than average hips is fake, despite him (sometimes) having not only a penis and testicles, but most importantly a male gender identity.
anyone who says they are a man or identifies as male is a man/male despite whatever shape their torso is. a man is a man if he says so, even if he has webbed duck feet and purple skin. you, as a trans* person, of all people should know that.
Quote from: vega on August 08, 2011, 10:03:57 PM
Hang in there, I feel your pain. It's aggravating having to stick yourself in the thigh with a long ass needle 2-4 times a month for months and to not see results you're expecting.
I'm 5 months and 3 weeks on T and I pass 50/50. Recently I've started passing 100% on the phone. Hopefully by a year, I'll start passing 100%. Even if I still don't pass, I'll keep taking T because it just feels right and it'll happen eventually... :3
Yeah, it's very aggravating. I just can't wait to grow facial hair sometimes, cause I know that will help me pass better.
That's great your passing 100% on the phone. :) I feel I'm passing 50/50 too. It really does depend on the person.
Quote from: Logan on August 09, 2011, 04:03:42 PM
Maybe you should consider going to weekly instead of bi-weekly ... it should help keep your levels ... well ... consistent. I can't imagine doing bi-weekly ... I'm a miserable jerkoff the day before I'm do ... and I'm on weekly.
I like getting it done every other week b/c I'm terrified of needles and it gives me a break of not having to get nervous about getting my shot.