Just wondering if you guys have seen the riots in Tottenham, just down the road from me here.
They were rioting because the police shot a man in a taxi cab as part of some anti-gun thing...I think a large part of it was people enjoying rioting though.
Some rather dramatic pictures
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftherapidnews.com%2Fimagess%2F2011%2F08%2F07%2Friotsum_1965965i.jpg&hash=eeefaad42f995725fe2c2542b4957b9b94f0ae53)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.wn.com%2Fph%2Fimg%2Fb7%2F7a%2F7e5c900283cb8f8487ea54e3fd87-grande.jpg&hash=7adfe0148dbefbb3c4f45145f70a7c39ea978ce8)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-ScUaKimgs3w%2FTj5l7BVF1kI%2FAAAAAAAAHA8%2FRM_kiRtqCUc%2Fs1600%2FTottenham%252Briots%252B5.jpg&hash=6b02cda6435e9614148b7854a1cab486f12447c4)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftherapidnews.com%2Fimagess%2F2011%2F08%2F07%2FTottenham-1_1965925i.jpg&hash=9c0732b5325ec4c9835b9a6da29bbbbe298017f1)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-RN1GAiUSQVY%2FTj5mKOTuGuI%2FAAAAAAAAHBM%2Fu3y7w2sFfBE%2Fs1600%2FTottenham%252Briots%252B4.jpg&hash=5082ad35853cba1d59bccefdd82b832f30645034)
Kia Ora Pica,
::) I caught the tail end of the riot on our local news, luckily nobody was kill in the actual riot...Was there anything racial to it ?
Metta Zenda :)
Only to the extent that the original cause was something to do with a police operation to reduce afro-carribbean gun crime.
Kia Ora Pica,
::) Thanks... Information surrounding the incident seems to be pretty sparse at the moment...
Metta Zenda :)
Now, groups of people throughout London have seen how easy a bit of chaos and looting is, there are incidents throughout the city. In Brixton, a few shops have been looted (especially mobile phone and sports clothes). In Walthamstow and Enfield there have been windows smashed and such and in Islington a police car was attacked. Wouldn't be too surprised of Harlesden or Elephant (where my parents live) doesn't get in on the act soon.
(That's why we gonna be)
Burnin' and a-lootin' tonight;
(Say we gonna burn and loot)
Burnin' and a-lootin' tonight;
(One more thing)
Burnin' all pollution tonight;
(Oh, yeah, yeah)
Burnin' all illusion tonight.
Or
'Let's loot the supermarket again (like we did last summer)' by the Deviants
Mick Farren/Deviants - Let's loot the supermarket again (77) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rfCQ87kHGE#)
That's great.
It's particularly fun to get drunk to and sing along, cos everyone has their own version of the lyrics.
Classic case of too much time on their hands, and not enough brain cells left.
I think it's fair to say that he was a baddie when there was a bullet lodged in the Police radio.
everyone has their own version of the lyrics.
So it's kinda like religion then ain't it?
I think the rest of the UK is looking on with bemusement. OK the family were upset at the shooting but as far as I am aware, the man in question was armed. It is pretty likely that he was involved in criminal activity or gang violence. The IPCC, the independent police complaints body is to investigate, as is required in all such cases and most reasonable people would expect such an investigation to take time. They were never going to get answers the day after the shooting. Then what happens, groups of thugs, some as young a 10 I believe, decide to wreck their own high street and pinch everything in sight. Now areas of London completely detached from the incident are hit by hooligans after expensive hoodies and trainers.
In the 80's, the riots in Toxteth, Brixton, etc, were the result of long standing tensions in communities and widespread anger at the police and local polititians. These do not seem to be there on anything like the same level. These riots seem to be using the shooting as an excuse to cause chaos and to go on the rob.
This is why I could never live in London. It is a very schizophrenic city. Areas of extreme poverty and high crime next to areas of extreme wealth. I just looked at a job in the city, £250,000 for an identical house to my own (worth £145,000). Ex social housing on a sink estate upwards of £180,000. A two bed flat, over £1000 a month in rent. Yet there is high gun and knife crime and areas of the city which are little more than gettos. Never mind the Olympics next year. London has far bigger problems to solve.
All this started because the police shot a man and the community thought the man had not been given the chance. However, seeing the way London police work, especially after de Mendez, the police know that the British public (especially London) are enormously against the police shooting anyone.
Adding to that the usual police tactics, which involve overwhelming a suspect with police to make any chance to fight back pointless, the police would have done everything in their power not to shoot the guy.
However, there is a terminal case of 'wasn't me guv, did nuttin wrong, you're just picking on me' - no responsibility for actions.
Quote from: tekla on August 08, 2011, 04:34:07 AM
everyone has their own version of the lyrics.
So it's kinda like religion then ain't it?
Not really, because I know the right lyrics and I will defend them to my dying breath.
Quote from: Pippa on August 08, 2011, 04:39:15 AM
I think the rest of the UK is looking on with bemusement.
Business as usual then.
I'm in one of them poor ghettos, but I still wouldn't want to be anywhere else, I love this city.
(Oh, and the Olympics was supposed to sort out the East End - and so far, no riots in the East, all Norf and Saf)
Sounds grim,
Caught up with it tonight (Oz time, you OK?)
I was caught up in race riots in Liverpool 40 years ago. Terrifying. A riot is what they say, nothing and no one is safe.
Hope you are all safe
Cindy
Classic case of criminals not obeying the law, if they can still get a pistol despite the UK's stringent firearms laws.
I bet a lot of people would love to grab a politician and point out that is what criminals do, that's why they are criminals for crying out loud! You need to actually DO something!!
Quote from: justmeinoz on August 08, 2011, 04:47:56 AM
Classic case of criminals not obeying the law, if they can still get a pistol despite the UK's stringent firearms laws.
I bet a lot of people would love to grab a politician and point out that is what criminals do, that's why they are criminals for crying out loud! You need to actually DO something!!
This whole thing started because they are doing something - the spark of it was 'Operation Trident', which is about removing guns from the street, they went to a man to frisk him for a gun and he shot at them (something like that, it's all a bit confusing still).
Also, this thing is not all that dangerous to people, no one has died, because there have been no guns used in the rioting or containing it- just bricks and petrol bombs.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.londonraynet.org.uk%2Fimages%2Flondon-map.gif&hash=1c5103bd7271f5209a4cbe0faa61de3feddb0d80)
I'm in Brent, most of the trouble is in Harringey.
The UK has had strict firearms laws for many years and the powers that be have just woken up to the fact that criminals are getting their hands on them?
I guess I am just being a cynical retired copper. ;)
Karen
Nottingham is oddly enough the easiest place to get a gun (known sometimes as Shottingham).
However, deaths by gun in the whole country (including suicide) have rarely exceeded 200 per year and most of our gun crimes involve people waving fake guns around.
It's spread to Lewisham (where my family are from) - three or four cars burnt up, loads of debris.
A bus has been set fire in Peckham
Fights in Hackney with the police - cars burnt out, man had epileptic fit on an attacked bus.
Something in Streatham - busses not going to hackney, peckham or streatham.
And my housemates just got the taxi back from a five minute walk away because of 60 masked people smashing in a jewellery shop. All the shops of the parade have pulled their shutters down - lots of sirens and shouting from just up the road.
Peckham got worse, ten minutes walk from my parents house, shops been set alight. The shop in Peckham was one I have been too a few times, weird to see stuff you see all the time on fire.
Violence in Croydon -
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbcimg.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F54493000%2Fjpg%2F_54493969_012621538-1.jpg&hash=9a4128f5d87308fb285eb888dd9a2cc39748ac90)
Three or four shops on fire and a bus - must be a few busses now.
So far, only the raid on the 'sell-your-gold' shop here, everything closed though, we went to pick up some milk and every shop was shut (unheard of) lot's of people out and about, sirens everywhere.
Reports of shops being looted and smashed into on my mum's road - she must be in bed though, she's not answering.
This video from her street.
UK RIOTS LONDON : 8 august 2011 Elephant and castle walworth road (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4LO7PBjmmQ&NR=1#)
Quote from: Pica Pica on August 08, 2011, 04:44:12 PM
Reports of shops being looted and smashed into on my mum's road - she must be in bed though, she's not answering.
Kia Ora Pica,
::) I hope your mother's OK, I just rang my sister who lives in Bermondsey,[That's where I'm originally from] she said things were pretty quite where she lives business as usual, so to speak...She was under the impression the police would have it all under control soon[perhaps wishful thinking on her part but I hope she's right]...
Metta Zenda :)
She'll be fine - ring 'er in the morning.
Getting some hair raising stories from my mates in Peckham.
The story in Dalston -
"We've detoured to Dalston where a bus was set on fire in shacklewell lane earlier. The single deck bus is now cordoned off and there doesn't seem to be much damage, but the incident has clearly shaken the large Turkish community here. Many shopkeepers are on the street talking about how they chased away the gang of youths behind the bus fire.
"We beat up four of them quite badly and they ran off," one man, who wouldn't give his name, said. Another said: "this is not justice, coming here and trying to attack us." Notably several businesses are still open ascot usual here, unlike other violence hit areas.
We've just watched a mob of locals chase a gang of hoodies down the main road, with police vans on full siren in pursuit." - Guardian website.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Ftwitpic%2Fphotos%2Flarge%2F368089185.jpg%3FAWSAccessKeyId%3DAKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA%26amp%3BExpires%3D1312848485%26amp%3BSignature%3DY97gYA%252Bvfo77CvsBAsMcS8gLPME%253D&hash=3bb5bf73acc759e33b662187ccea7f91c00a3511)
Photo of the Turkish guys standing down rioters.
Also interestingly - the next chapter in my book culminates in a large violent mob.
Police car on fire, looting &c...in Woolwich now.
Top retweet: "The Youth of the Middle East rise up for basic freedoms.The Youth of London rise up for a HD ready 42" Plasma TV #londonriots"
Top video
Truly extraordinary speech by fearless Black Woman in face of Hackney London rioters - A MUST SEE. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SHKhvVjLIc&feature=player_embedded#)
Looting in Clapham now, it's been widely reported that they ransacked curry's and debenham's but left the bookshop alone. This being my old stomping ground - rather well to do nowadays.
London Riots Hit Clapham (Debenhams) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rIgzUDS4B5s#)
Clapham Junction, Europe's busiest train station shut. No fires just looting - police don't have the gear.
This video has a reporter asking looters whether they are proud of what they are doing...looks like it's down clapham to get a new camcorder.
Clapham Junction looting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXcI-NL3Tro&feature=player_embedded#)
"Madness of today summed up by a looter in Clapham who waited for the green man at crossing with a TV & laptop under his arms #londonriots"
Rioting in Ealing - just down the road, restaurants and shops smashed, more cars on fire. Sirens filling the ear.
Possibly Camden, unsure - the tweets are saying so.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Ftwitpic%2Fphotos%2Ffull%2F368071787.jpg%3FAWSAccessKeyId%3DAKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA%26amp%3BExpires%3D1312844583%26amp%3BSignature%3DJMtiFe46LxiGDwELAgGqoLVjAIY%253D&hash=c85510e4dd27ef54d677d60b8b1e89c307e4f259)
This picture from Camden.
Also Tower Bridge and Old Kent road, probably the same people from my mum's road.
The BBC are unable to keep track of everything, they won't sent out cars because one of them got smashed up. BBC crews being attacked.
Colliers wood now, chalk farm - seems like here is almost only place untouched, very surprising.
- My mates ' am indoors but I am on the main road as well :(, the police station is just a couple of metres from my place and everything is happening there... Laying on bed, awake, just in case I hear shouts or screams so I can do sth... Xxx'
-'there was black smoke billowing from behind our house moment ago, now there's a sunshine and a rainbow falling on the same spot.'
Feels crazy.
The shop in Clapham where I bought my three corned hat is on fire now - possible flats upstairs - reporter nearly crying.
On Twitter, Lord Voldemort is calling for calm.
They're rioting for freedom of consumer goods.
I hope this ends soon.
This is a dreadful Tabloid thread.
I don't understand
I was once told on a largely American website that as I wasn't an American I had absolutely no say in anything that went on there. I was accused of being 'anti-American' for writing that the British media were boring us all silly with hours and hours and hours of in-depth coverage of the 2008 Presidential election.
Quote from: Princess of Hearts on August 08, 2011, 06:15:25 PM
This is a dreadful Tabloid thread.
I'm sitting here writing me novel and hearing all sorts of reports and things from mates and some tweets and news - these are all places I spend time in, it feels like the world I know is being torn apart...and I have to admit, I'm gripped by the story - guessing it's not being heavily reported up your way though - PicaNews, it's confused but it's as fair as I can make it.
The fancy dress shop in Clapham, the one where I bought my (beloved) three corner hat, on fire with canisters of helium - the gangs stole masks to hide faces from CCTV, the queen just smashed a starbucks.
(Oh, just had me reputation downed for 'Dreadful pro-Authority, pro-State comments!!' didn't know that was a crime. I'm not all that pro-state, but if I had to choose between looters and police...I'd chose the shopkeepers of Dalston).
News media makes too much of american politics. Even in america where the media has nothing useful to say.
Rioting is terrible anywhere it happens. It's an act of violence whether or not anyone is hurt. Rioters are the people we have to watch our backs for in any bad time.
How can you be pro-state if you just want some order?
Quote from: Pica Pica on August 08, 2011, 04:23:55 AM
It's particularly fun to get drunk to and sing along, cos everyone has their own version of the lyrics.
Just like Nero while Rome burned. Yes, I know it is not historically correct, but can be used to exemplify the "anarchists" who delight and profit form this type of tragedies.
I am sorry this kind of rioting is happing in you "neck of the woods," and I hope you and your family would stay safe. I also heard that there some home invasions were reported.
All the best,
Kate D
Quote from: kate durcal on August 08, 2011, 06:33:16 PM
Just like Nero while Rome burned. Yes, I know it is not historically correcct, but can be used to examplify the "anarchists" who delight and profit form this type of tragedies.
Funny how the tone changes throughout the thread, from flippancy to confusion and dismay.
The news people being astonished how very different these riots are to other riots before. The way the people are being dispersed, springing up in strange and unpredicted areas, how the police and the news can't get there. I was born the year of the last riots in London.
Perhaps having a shot gun is not such a bad idea after all.
The news here (Virginia, USA) claims that the rioters are but drug dealers, thieves, pimps, and prostitutes, joined by opportunistic looters.
Stay safe man!
Kate D
I think it's a given that a looter is a thief. :)
Quote from: kate durcal on August 08, 2011, 06:43:30 PM
Perhaps having a shot gun is not such a bad idea after all.
But they would have more guns.
Lots of stuff in Birmingham as well, there is an unmanned police station on fire, and lots of looting - again all the looting is luxury sports goods and electronics. Oddly though, one of the most emailed pictures is a man who has looted some basmati rice.
Now a big fire in Enfield (north London) at a Sony warehouse.
Portabello Road is being looted now - and a scooter set on fire. Can never walk down that road without thinking of the song from Bedknobs and Broomsticks.
Sorry, forgot to mention the best home defense weapon, a flamethrower :laugh:
Can be made with readily available materials.
In a serious note, until you face this kind of situation you do not have a clue as just how scaring they can be. I sincerely hope no harm would come you way, stay frosty
Kate D
Liverpool is joining in on the act, cars and such set on fire then, when will this end...
Something happening closer, the sirens are increasing.
Canning Town now, guys with hammers smashing McDonalds.
Quote from: Rebis on August 08, 2011, 06:45:02 PM
I think it's a given that a looter is a thief. :)
Waht I meant was that a thief is someboy who steals on an ongoing basis, looter is an opportunistic thief. Both are despicable criminals.
Kate D
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Ftwitpic%2Fphotos%2Ffull%2F368025733.jpg%3FAWSAccessKeyId%3DAKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA%26amp%3BExpires%3D1312850262%26amp%3BSignature%3DPhrKWBbkNSspI%252Fwcj5Vd6Q0Gof0%253D&hash=c48546496b3f7c8f87956af4a64ec44d5ad9a46a)
Looking a bit out of place.
Clapham Junc violence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqj1N9qeWXI&feature=share#)
Quote from: Pica Pica on August 08, 2011, 07:22:04 PM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Ftwitpic%2Fphotos%2Ffull%2F368025733.jpg%3FAWSAccessKeyId%3DAKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA%26amp%3BExpires%3D1312850262%26amp%3BSignature%3DPhrKWBbkNSspI%252Fwcj5Vd6Q0Gof0%253D&hash=c48546496b3f7c8f87956af4a64ec44d5ad9a46a)
Looking a bit out of place.
Unexcusable!!! Shame on them!
Ity's starting to look like the rioting competitions they had in France a couple of years ago. People were boasting of how many cars got burnt in their city.
Have you thought about a few days in the Lake District, Pica?
Karen.
Looting and smashing stuff up in the city of Bristol now...
and a huge fire in Buckinghamshire, some Sainsbury's distribution centre on fire, where 750 people work.
I'm off to bed, who knows where else'll be smashed up when I wake.
Sounds like I was right then.
Sad.
Live @ Victoria Park. Still my favorite punk band.
The Clash - London's Burning and White Riot (Live at Victoria Park) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g0P7AX0j4s&feature#)
Morning all, too true.
More cities joined in, more places burnt, politicians decidedly absent (except the always fanatastic Diane Abbot).
Turns out people in London started using home made weapons to defend themselves against the mob.
Reports from friends.
"3am and the police barricade it's still fighting in Ealing. I can see it from my building. Helicopters over flying Ealing and I cam sleep! What does this country needs to change the way they manage these kids?"
""Where to?" says the man at the taxi kiosk at Gatwick. "Clapham Junction" says I. "Hah", replies the driver, turning to the next in the queue, "we don't do war zones". I guess a lot can change in three days..."
"Woke up to find his town on fire. There was a massive fire in Enfield lock. They burnt down the Sony warehouse. It's been on the news this morning."
"Feels sick."
London Woolwich Riots - 8 August 2011 - @jelvesie Original (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uep5t6-auYA&feature=youtu.be#)
More expected tonight.
Oh do keep safe Pica Pica.
It sounds terrible
Love
Cindy
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wbtimes.co.uk%2Fpolopoly_fs%2Fharlesden_3977_1_988260%21image%2F3277335836.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Flandscape_225%2F3277335836.jpg&hash=c7e16bb1bb4e17ad2ff6d94d47bbea85b4678e37)
This happened at the end of my road -
"Harlesden shopkeepers were attacked trying to defend their businesses as looters carrying makeshift weapons ran riot down a busy high road.
Workers at Best Buy on Harlesden High Street fought off attempts to enter their shop from a gang of around 20 thieves, alleged to be aged 13-26, carrying bits of wood from nearby shop fronts and stolen wooden mops.
One employee was seen with cuts and bruises on his face and forehead whilst another had blood coming from his nose.
According to a nearby shop keeper, police, who were attending an incident at a pawn brokers further up the high street, were on to the incident in a flash.
He said; "They were on top of it within five minutes but considering they are all over the place you would expect that.
"They grabbed wooden mops from outside my shop and tried to get into Best Buy but let me tell you them boys were not having it.
"There was only a few of them at first but they fought back no doubt about it.
"A bunch more came round the corner but by the time it got to serious the police were on top of it.
As the rampage took hold worried traders started closing up their shops, pulling down metal shutters for extra protection, and by 6.30pm almost every shop on Harlesden High Street was closed.
Lacrcio Da Silva owner of Café Brasil, on station road, Harlesden, said: "I was talking to a friend at a nearby shop when I heard that the riots had started.
"I rushed back to my shop to close everything up and make sure all the staff was safe.
"I don't know why this is happening in London but I don't feel safe."
- we were out at 7.00 trying to buy some food and the places was locked down. Some flatemates of mine were having something to eat opposite the pawnbrokers when it was raided. Hopefully that's all we'll see.
Now, I need to go out and buy some flea bombs, them little monsters are killing me itchily.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm208%2Fphairrose%2Fflea.jpg%3Ft%3D1312877021&hash=10e89b8e721e066f30d506de08673383b7adb5ac)
Sounds like it's nearly time to read the Riot Act.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm208%2Fphairrose%2Fbigsociety.jpg%3Ft%3D1312881138&hash=be21d5c362d29928421a8a5b12154ecc3f049ce7)
The police seem to have been ineffectual at controlling things. Is that a true perspective? Or has it just been too overwhelming? The track you showed yesterday were I think it was 6-8 police facing a mob is nuts.
Cindy
http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=london%20riots&tnr=21&vid=1185654571012&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fvideos%2Fthumbnail.aspx%3Fq%3D1185654571012%26id%3D779d15a88c8b2c4c8a36b6dcff145974%26bid%3D%252fTPgNI7LM99NqA%26bn%3DThumb%26url%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.bbc.co.uk%252fgo%252frss%252fint%252fnews%252f-%252fnews%252fuk-14455089&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fgo%2Frss%2Fint%2Fnews%2F-%2Fnews%2Fuk-14455089&sigr=11n4udgss&newfp=1&tit=London+riots+rage+for+third+night (http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=london%20riots&tnr=21&vid=1185654571012&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fvideos%2Fthumbnail.aspx%3Fq%3D1185654571012%26id%3D779d15a88c8b2c4c8a36b6dcff145974%26bid%3D%252fTPgNI7LM99NqA%26bn%3DThumb%26url%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.bbc.co.uk%252fgo%252frss%252fint%252fnews%252f-%252fnews%252fuk-14455089&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fgo%2Frss%2Fint%2Fnews%2F-%2Fnews%2Fuk-14455089&sigr=11n4udgss&newfp=1&tit=London+riots+rage+for+third+night)
It has been another night of violence and chaos in London and other parts of Britain.
Buildings were set on fire, shops have been looted and police struggled to cope with the enormous scale of the unrest in the capital.
There was also trouble in Birmingham, Bristol, and Liverpool.
Andy Moore reports.
http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=london%20riots&tnr=21&vid=1185654571012&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fvideos%2Fthumbnail.aspx%3Fq%3D1185654571012%26id%3D779d15a88c8b2c4c8a36b6dcff145974%26bid%3D%252fTPgNI7LM99NqA%26bn%3DThumb%26url%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.bbc.co.uk%252fgo%252frss%252fint%252fnews%252f-%252fnews%252fuk-14455089&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fgo%2Frss%2Fint%2Fnews%2F-%2Fnews%2Fuk-14455089&sigr=11n4udgss&newfp=1&tit=London+riots+rage+for+third+night (http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=london%20riots&tnr=21&vid=1185654571012&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fvideos%2Fthumbnail.aspx%3Fq%3D1185654571012%26id%3D779d15a88c8b2c4c8a36b6dcff145974%26bid%3D%252fTPgNI7LM99NqA%26bn%3DThumb%26url%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.bbc.co.uk%252fgo%252frss%252fint%252fnews%252f-%252fnews%252fuk-14455089&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fgo%2Frss%2Fint%2Fnews%2F-%2Fnews%2Fuk-14455089&sigr=11n4udgss&newfp=1&tit=London+riots+rage+for+third+night)
Rioting has spread across London on a third night of violence, with unrest flaring in other English cities.
An extra 1,700 police officers were deployed in London, where shops were looted and buildings were set alight.
Birmingham, Liverpool, Nottingham and Bristol also saw violence.
Speaking to BBC Breakfast, Theresa May would not be drawn on the option of calling in the army, saying that the UK is policed "by consent".
The home secretary said that unrest needed to stop, but cited "robust policing and good use of intelligence" as the means to this end.
This video has disgusted many people.
London Riots 2011 - Man Helped and Then Robbed. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNh-fTv1Gm8#)
Police are having trouble, police numbers were cut last year so they are being overwhelmed - especially because the police always work by using huge numbers of people but moderate force - it's considered a mark of national pride that the police are not are weapon of force wielded by the government, but there to help the populace. Because of this, they are very wary of using water cannon etc...especially because the riots originally started because of a police action in shooting a man (the details of which are still hazy).
Adding to that, the rioters were using blackberry messengers and such to quickly change locations, the large infrastructure of the police made it impossible for the police to turn up organised and prepared. Police went out without training or equipment and were expected to contain problems far bigger than they were used to.
Adding to that, the metropolitan police to not have a commissioner, only an acting one because he was fired recently about because of the news of the world stuff - he is saying 'we have images and we will arrest you'. Every police cell in London is currently full.
Tonight police coming from throughout the country - the army will not be involved (partly cos they are all in other countries and partly because it is not part of British culture, it is considered the very, very last resort to use force to keep public order - and calling in the army was considered the ruin of the whole Northern Ireland thing)
Keep safe.
I wasn't going to go to the Olympics and I wouldn't now take a free ticket.
I fail to see humans in some of this.
Just garbage on legs.
Cindy
No police could handle this. There simply are not enough officers trained in riot control. This is very different from the rioting in the early 1980's. Unfortunately, I am old enough to remember it! This is criminal gangs organising via social media going out with the deliberate intention to loot. Reports of rioters using cars to move from area to area to keep one step ahead of the police. Some shops being wrecked for fun but others are being deliberately targeted aminly electrical goods stores, sports clothing shops and pharmacies. They attacked a party shop to get masks and pubs and hairdressers are being attacked to get flammable liquids. Fires are being set to divert the emergency services and to cover up evidence.
The riots in the ealy 80's followed months of local tension and were demonstrations which collapsed into violence. This is just criminal opportunism.
We have a real problem in the UK with a social underclass. They don't vote, they don't work, the are ill educated and have had no parental guidance. Local authorities have thrown millions of pounds at the areas where these people live but it seems that they respect for what they are being given and cannot see that they are effectively leaching off the rest of community. The influence of american rap and gang culture can also be blamed. These idiots idolise american gang culture and look at the LA riots in the 90's as good fun. Apparently, children as young as 8 have been involved.
Water Cannon are only licensed for use in Northern Ireland not in the rest of the UK. Same with baton rounds. Tear Gas is not permitted in the UK. The biggest thing we need to do in these areas is crack down hard on gang culture, boy racers and Chav's.
One of the more stupid stories going around last night was that London zoo had been broken into and that the lions were roaring round Regent's park.
Also, in the areas affected, hundreds of people are taking bin bags and brooms and sweeping the debris caused last night... I popped to Ealing this morning with my broom - all done by the council during the night - bought my flea bomb and went home.
Last night we needed batman. This morning we need The Wombles. #londonriots #riotcleanup
I particularly like this one of people in Camden making tea for the police (who have had 30 hr shifts) and using a riot shield as a tea-tray.
00:38 9/8/2011: Camden Town, London (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pixel-eight/6024429000/#)
Riot clean up in Clapham Junction (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCsrcnUy8ao&feature=youtu.be#)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fyfrog.com%2Fh423jlbj%3Aiphone&hash=a6be3524c40bec4d0f84227b71f7c322b0719b49)
Supermarket giving free water to clearer-uppers
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fyfrog.com%2Fh77ogxnmj%3Aiphone&hash=0ea43020efcc05c429680955abc75758a2dd8325)
Crowds come to tidy.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitpic.com%2Fshow%2Flarge%2F63d9wv&hash=4cc3fb664c44eccd1a798c719c71fe4084ce58c9)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbcimg.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F54504000%2Fjpg%2F_54504616_cleanup.jpg&hash=5c47d2adfb94c8be443aa51cb44000030962f4ef)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitpic.com%2Fshow%2Flarge%2F63d339&hash=ad5f7528351a08c72d95f4de8eca96986d40b672)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fyfrog.com%2Fhs1s3qtj%3Aiphone&hash=5150c82e6d6e004d02dc5324debffe0147558d4f)
Just behind Mum's house (and she's fine).
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitpic.com%2Fshow%2Flarge%2F63db3y&hash=778cf207a3f3ec99a1335bff8ace319914668c92)
I haven't followed this but I do know when a single incident is the catalyst for a violent mass eruption, things have been brewing for a while. It could be the economy. It could be race. It could be politics. But whatever it is, it's been gradually building under the surface for a while.
Nothing like a nice cuppa to help make things right. :angel: Good on 'em.
Karen.
Quote from: Pica Pica on August 09, 2011, 07:34:59 AM
Also, in the areas affected, hundreds of people are taking bin bags and brooms and sweeping the debris caused last night... I popped to Ealing this morning with my broom - all done by the council during the night - bought my flea bomb and went home.
That is the British spirit I -and the rest of the world- so admire, the same spirit that kept the Nazis from sinking the Island. Churchill would be so proud.
I hope rioting stops. Courage,
Kate D
Thank goodness, the politicians have returned from holiday. :-\
David Cameron boring the crowds, Nick Clegg being run out of Peckham and London's Finest joke, Boris Johnson waving a broom around Clapham.
Boris Johnson London Riot Epic Speech Clapham (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fgapIFUTVI#)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprofile.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhprofile-ak-snc4%2F276671_261568193854371_5090546_n.jpg&hash=6b7796029ca73fc1005232c364a2ca1106bf9a7d)
It could be the economy.
Economic inequality fuels most of this stuff, most of the time, in most places in the world.
It starts again - stories of shops smashed in West Bromwich - let's hope that is it.
I saw the riot on the news yesterday. I would like to know more than what they're reporting. Gennee
When I read about it in the paper at work last night, it sounded like the police were going to sting this guy in a taxi, but other locals who don't like police took some shots at them, and in response the police shot the guy in the taxi. Is that anything like what you're hearing over there in London?
Tonight's stories are just weird...
Rioters fought off by Milwall fans (I thought Millwall fans loved a riot).
A man dressed as wolverine stalking the streets of Enfield.
Sales of baseball bats on Amazon.co.uk up 5,000%
-And even the seagulls are in on the act.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc3%2F29301_442976909814_310716489814_5773694_3162803_s.jpg&hash=c5017c27113f33c835db6a3e7c31ff3ba4c31fb7)
Oh, and lots of ironic videos...my fave being this one, where now deputy PM (and Cameron's puppydog) warns people if Cameron gets in, their will be riots.
Nick Clegg "warns" of riots if Tories are elected (11Apr10) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItK1izQIwo#)
London quiet, many parts of London have impromptu armies of local people with home made weapons ready to 'defend' their patches.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Ftwitpic%2Fphotos%2Ffull%2F368777860.jpg%3FAWSAccessKeyId%3DAKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA%26amp%3BExpires%3D1312924710%26amp%3BSignature%3Ds5OkRy4sw1o080oychJFLOmNbLk%253D&hash=1f9f023cb7352778a6566edf3ecc616f14e3e658)
Millwall fans defending Eltham High Street- they are Millwall, no one likes them, they don't care.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesmond.yfrog.com%2FHimg734%2Fscaled.php%3Ftn%3D0%26amp%3Bserver%3D734%26amp%3Bfilename%3Dv67rs.jpg%26amp%3Bxsize%3D640%26amp%3Bysize%3D640&hash=37c4bebe37f0f98eac82b05d2a414a3b7628b8ec)
Sikhs defending temple.
I went for a little walk, very tense, locked down, very quiet.
However, in Manchester - crazy scenes, lots of fire and looting and craziness. The big mall there has been looted and then set fire to. It's thought that things are much more organised there, that the Manchester gangs are working in clearly operated groups - unlike London which was pretty free-for-all. Apparently it turned suddenly at 5:30, as if a pre-arranged time. It is less manic than London, but far more focussed.
There are riots in Wolverhampton, and West Bromwich as well in the Midlands, also in the midlands Birmingham having problems and some rumbles in Walsall.
A fire where my sister lives in Portsmouth, but that considered not to be arson.
One of the companies that have had at least five shops looted is footlocker - they are going to have some real losses over these few days.
As always, Britain keeps joking...
This sign on a Subway's sandwich shop.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Ftwitpic%2Fphotos%2Flarge%2F368733394.jpg%3FAWSAccessKeyId%3DAKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA%26amp%3BExpires%3D1312921619%26amp%3BSignature%3D1yo0wEPIxiaKeTVCYJsO7iCyLB8%253D&hash=d12e04bd87db44c19500436b04b7dcb65f0b652b)
A Waterstones in Manchester says it is staying open because 'We'll stay open, if they steal some books they might learn something'.
I'm thinking that the authorities will create a plan based on what they learn from the massmedia coordinations that the rioters are using.
This is tiny compared to the topic of this thread, but Verizon workers are on strike here and apparently there was some sabotage of equipment in and around Tewksbury which caused an outage. Everyone is automatically blaming the strikers, except me. I haven't caught up on the news yet, but I prefer facts to speculation.
I wish everyone would just shut up and sit down.
I am disturbed and dismayed by the right-wing knee jerk responses made in this thread.
Knee jerk reactions inevitable, as it's a sort of rolling update as I pootle along with me novel.
The right wingy bits are probably the Millwall people - Millwall fans are not the most open or tolerant people in the world it is true, but I have a soft spot for Millwall - my great grandad played for them and a lot of my family are Millwall fans - as long as the guys stand outside their pub and tell themselves they are defending the street - it's a good symbol. If they went vigilante mobbing as I hear other people planning to do, not up for that at all.
As for other stuff, what other elements of the thread have shocked and dismayed?
To anyone out there within proximity of the troubled areas, this Yankee's heart goes out to you. (Unless you're causing it, of course)
What these people are doing is downright despicable. These people are taking a shooting incidient and turning it into an excuse to steal and/or break and/or burn stuff. Unfortunately, I do agree that with the current very subpar economic situation, all it took for people to go berserk was this one event.
Also, I understand the temptation to say that the authorities should read the Riot Act, and use tougher measures. At worst, though, you will have a severe backlash that'll make the current riots look pitiful. At best, you'll get people to stop, for now, but the current tensions will still be there, and still simmering. All I'm sure of, is that this sh*t needs to stop.
I don't buy the poverty argument.
I'm poor - I've been skimming above and below the poverty line for five years. I've had to sell me stuff, I've had to borrow money off friends to avoid homelessness, I've been out of work for eight months watching all the rejections pile in. I've been denied a place on housing lists because I haven't been in one place long enough...and I've got to this end despite getting a good education and being prepared to take any job that came to me. I feel ignored, at the bottom of the pile, trod and shat upon by most other people in the pack - but I haven't smashed anything up recently, I haven't firebombed a bus or someone's car that they saved up for,
My TV is ten years old, my phone so naff I was mugged and they gave it back and I have no camera (or camcorder anymore, it broke)...But I haven't smashed any shops up recently, nor raided some poor guy's cornershop.
The reason people are doing this is because they've realised they can get away with it, that's all.
Well, Pica, it would seem like you are actually a decent human being. :)
I wouldn't say that it is purely poverty though, but I'd still argue that it is a large part of it. Group mentality is a very dangerous thing. If just one person goes around and starts breaking stuff randomly, they'll most likely be arrested on the spot. However, if these ill-tempered youth suddenly realise that as a group they can get away with anything, they will get away with anything.
It's a bunch of factors coming together to create some chaos.
Quote from: Pica Pica on August 09, 2011, 05:26:36 PM
I don't buy the poverty argument.
I'm poor - I've been skimming above and below the poverty line for five years. I've had to sell me stuff, I've had to borrow money off friends to avoid homelessness, I've been out of work for eight months watching all the rejections pile in. I've been denied a place on housing lists because I haven't been in one place long enough...and I've got to this end despite getting a good education and being prepared to take any job that came to me. I feel ignored, at the bottom of the pile, trod and shat upon by most other people in the pack - but I haven't smashed anything up recently, I haven't firebombed a bus or someone's car that they saved up for,
My TV is ten years old, my phone so naff I was mugged and they gave it back and I have no camera (or camcorder anymore, it broke)...But I haven't smashed any shops up recently, nor raided some poor guy's cornershop.
The reason people are doing this is because they've realised they can get away with it, that's all.
Hat off to you Pica Pica, you are truly a goood man.
All th best,
Katen D
A good person, for not rioting? A normal person surely.
Quote from: Pica Pica on August 09, 2011, 06:24:03 PM
A good person, for not rioting? A normal person surely.
Now you're getting just a bit carried away :laugh:
There are lots of TS/TG people looking for help/advice or just wanting to say 'hi' and this thread is sucking up all this forum's energy. Let us get back to helping people. Wadda ya say?
I say it's a big site - and if I have to hear every time an American politician so much as sneezes, I am sure the website can cope with me talking about the largest 4 nights of civil unrest in my country since I was born. Especially as it is all contained in one thread.
Incidentally, some wonderful stories about Sikhs standing around and guarding places of worship - even places of worship belonging to other religions, and an interview with some.
http://audioboo.fm/boos/435074 (http://audioboo.fm/boos/435074)
I say that there are probably a number of people from the LGBT community who could quite possibly be directly affected by such behavior and may need help and it is important that people are informed of such occurrences and the issues be discussed :) Just my opinion
- Virginia
I am not sure what to think about all this rioting. One thing I want to make clear is that I am a Scot and it is only the English that are rioting. On the other hand as an Anarcho-->-bleeped-<- I love to see ordinary people kicking the State's and their paid goons - the police - backside. This incident has shown just how much the mainstream media is in the hands of the 'masters'. The British media have gone out of their way to portray the original rioters as being 'Criminal', 'unemployed', 'lower-class', and yes black. I see jobs here being advertised as 'Temporary', and increasingly part time. There are jobs that don't even pay £10,000 per annum, yet they expect 08.30am - 17.30/18.00pm work hours, plus a 3 hour+ round trip commute. If I didn't have a rich mother, I would be expected to get up at 04.30am each day and be away from the house from 06.00am until 18.30-19.00pm each day, all for £170.00 ($277.00) per week before taxes and transporation costs. Over here the stupidest, part-time jobs are treated as if they were hugely important. I know of someone who has been to three interviews for a temporary job paying £9,694($15,654) per annum. I can sympathise with the very angry youth who cannot get any sort of half-way decent job that comes even close to paying a decent salary. NO-ONE can live on £10,000 per year, and expect to live in a decent home in a respectable neighbourhood. And you can forget about having a wife and children on that meagre salary: or even a car! Can the Americans imagine working and not being able to afford a car?!
Stop siding with the oppressors!
Babylon A Fall - The Maytones (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lkn5ojqqqO8&list=FLg09uFlmApWk&index=30#)
TheAntiTerrorist on the REAL 'prison without bars' Pt3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnldHvoDWIk&feature=related#)
http://www.france24.com/en/20110809-uk-riots-london-looting-cameron-police-manchester-crime?ns_campaign=nl_quot_en&ns_mchannel=email_marketing&ns_source=NLQ_20110810&f24_member_id=&ns_linkname=node_5231019&ns_fee=0 (http://www.france24.com/en/20110809-uk-riots-london-looting-cameron-police-manchester-crime?ns_campaign=nl_quot_en&ns_mchannel=email_marketing&ns_source=NLQ_20110810&f24_member_id=&ns_linkname=node_5231019&ns_fee=0)
More than 16,000 police were deployed across Britain Tuesday in an attempt to contain a fourth night of riots that have spread beyond the capital. Prime Minister David Cameron has vowed to restore order and recalled parliament from recess.
By News Wires (text)
REUTERS - Riots flared in English cities and towns on Tuesday night as London waited anxiously to see if thousands of police deployed on its streets could head off the youths who had rampaged across the capital virtually unchecked for three nights.
In Salford, part of greater Manchester in northwest England, rioters threw bricks at police and set fire to buildings. A BBC cameraman was assaulted.
Television pictures showed flames leaping from shops and cars in Salford and Manchester, and plumes of thick black smoke billowing across roads.
In central Manchester, police said a clothes shop was set alight. "I can confirm a shop is on fire and 200 youths that gathered in the city centre have been chased by riot police and dispersed. Seven arrests have been made so far," a spokesman for Greater Manchester Police said.
Further south in West Bromwich and Wolverhampton, cars were burned and stores raided.
In London, commuters hurried home early, shops shut and many shopkeepers boarded their windows as the city prepared nervously for more of the violence that had erupted in neighbourhoods across London and spread to other cities. Police promised to nearly triple their deployment on the streets.
The way I see it Princess is that an anarchist point of view will only work if you are a nice person. Will you object if someone kicks in your front door, steals your CD player and sets fire to your house?
Theory is all very well, but someone about to throw a petrol bomb at another person is attempting to commit murder in my book, and deserves all they get.
The people who deserve praise are those who spent time cleaning up afterwards, as Pica pointed out. How does burning out a shop and depriving people of a job help the "oppressed?"
Karen.
Quote from: Princess of Hearts on August 09, 2011, 08:04:00 PM
Stop siding with the oppressors!
Who are the oppressors; the people trying to get on with things or the people smashing everything up?
I am from a council estate in Crawley, I was born to a factory worker and a cigarette machine refiller, I was born prematurely because of the chemicals my mum handled in the factory. I'm too poor to have even considered driving lessons. I have done the jobs that are less than £10,000 per annum (until this year, when I managed to get a job at the unheard of 11,000. My Dad has worked his whole life, he is on 13,000). I have done dozens of temporary jobs, or jobs with no real contract so I could be(and was) fired on the spot if I wasn't needed. When I worked at the pub, I would work 40 hours a week and never earn more than £170. I lived in a house falling apart raped over by a rich landlady because I had no choice. I spent 8 months being turned down from these rubbish jobs without even the courtesy of a rejection letter. I
have got up at 4.30 to get a bus and slave away as a hotel waiter, I
have slaved away for pittance and I expect very little better for the future.
I'm not boasting, I'm making it clear that I know what I am talking about because I
am one of the people you are talking about.
I don't have a rich mother - AND I AM NOT RIOTING.
Quote from: Princess of Hearts on August 09, 2011, 08:04:00 PM
Over here the stupidest, part-time jobs are treated as if they were hugely important.
They are hugely important if you have nothing else. You may look at these jobs and think 'who wants to do that?' but you will never understand those that do those jobs until you realise that nobody wants to do them, but they'd rather do them then nothing.
I understand the desperation and irritation, I was struggling before the recession. I have always struggled and as far as I see it, I always will struggle. I live in an area of London that the government has put on it's 'most deprived list' - I work in a school as an assistant and see the sorts of kids that are rioting at a younger age than the rioters. The problem is not deprivation of money, it's deprivation of time and attention. The children are angry and desperate but not for money - for attention. They don't need new trainers, they need parents who pay attention. It's so common to see parents on phones who don't even look at their kids except to tell them off - and so these skills pass to their children.
More than that is the attitude. We had a bright kid in the school. Very intelligent, very eloquent and very peaceful. Suddenly he started beating people up, his grades dropped and he would no longer look people in the eye; why? Because his mum had told him to batter anyone that looked at him funny. When she was brought in and told us this, she added, 'it's a ghetto town, a ghetto school, he's got to learn the rules." When asked whether it might be better to teach her kid ways
out of the ghetto, she got loud and abusive.
Besides, it's not just poor kids rioting. How can you accuse people in brand name clothes, organising themselves on expensive smart phones of being poor? The convictions I have heard have been of students (from rich families), a graphic designer (on a very good wage) - it's not just the poor, but it is the lawless.
Now the police, especially in London, are arrogant bastards but we are lucky that the police are not tools of oppression - and the extent that the government have restrained from harder measures, that people are calling for, is a clear sign that the police are not a hammer to hit poor people with.
So I ask again, who are the oppressors? The people getting by or the people destroying things?
You talk about people without cars - what about the people who's cars have been set alight?
You talk about people without jobs - what about the jobs of the people in the looted and torched businesses?
- You may now argue that it's 'corporations' that the 'big businesses' are the ones hit. It doesn't work like that. Misery will always trickle down quicker than anything else. It's the ordinary people who will loose jobs, loose days of work without pay - the businesses will never feel a thing, it's the ordinary people trying to make ends meet doing the ->-bleeped-<-ty jobs inside that'll get the brunt of it. And that's not to mention all the family businesses hit.
You talk about people not being able to afford homes - what about the people who's homes have been burnt to the ground?
Quote from: Princess of Hearts on August 09, 2011, 08:04:00 PM
I love to see ordinary people kicking the State's and their paid goons - the police - backside.
The state has barely been touched - it's the normal people being affected here and it is the state and the police trying to secure their freedoms.
Pica Pica,
Thank you
One of the best posts I have seen at this site.
Cindy
Quote from: Princess of Hearts on August 09, 2011, 08:04:00 PM
I can sympathise with the very angry youth who cannot get any sort of half-way decent job that comes even close to paying a decent salary. NO-ONE can live on £10,000 per year, and expect to live in a decent home in a respectable neighbourhood. And you can forget about having a wife and children on that meagre salary: or even a car! Can the Americans imagine working and not being able to afford a car?!
Stop siding with the oppressors!
Exactly
As Pica has said,
How does destroying the homes, lives, and business of the poor help this? I bet there hasn't been a single Rolls Royce burned out. But some poor families only car on repayments has.
It is very sad.
Cindy
Quote from: Cindy James on August 10, 2011, 04:00:04 AM
As Pica has said,
How does destroying the homes, lives, and business of the poor help this? I bet there hasn't been a single Rolls Royce burned out. But some poor families only car on repayments has.
It is very sad.
Cindy
Yes, there have been idiots, but not all
Name one
They are thieves pure and simple.
Police from Scotland are being sent to Manchester Liverpool and Birmingham to boost numbers. Courts are sitting overnight and looters are being remanded in custody. Police are using CCTV and media photos to pick up those still on the loose. I doubt it will take them long as it appears that many of the looters are well known to the police.
These riots have had nothing to do with the shooting in London. It is just gangs of crooks after a quick buck. Many of these idiots have had millions in Government support thrown at them to improve their lot. There has been something wrong in British society for many years. An underclass has grown. Some of these looters come from families where 3 generations do not work. They expect social services and benefits to provide them with a lifestyle rather than emergency support. They don't respect authority whether it be a policeman, a teacher or anyone else. They have no interests in politics. They are generally illerterate and by choice skipped school. In most towns they can be seen on street corners drinking. Most are habitual drug takers and black or white they are obsessed with American gang culture. What is clear is that they have been organised. Little of what has gone on has been spontanious and there have been reports of older gang members directing kids to cause trouble to divert police from the looting.
Having worked along side the police, it is interesting to note how many faces keep reappearing. Quite often the custody sergeant is on first name terms with those before him. They are charged and bailed. A few weeks later they appear before the Court, get a small fine for the offence several other offences are written off as 'taken into consideration' and they walk free to carry on. A couple of days later they are back in the police cell. It can take years of this before they receive a tag or community service, which they then skip. Simple answer, lock them up.
If i could do anything i would surely lock up every kid walking around, because they are there causing the problem by their very presence. they should all be put in reform school and made to work in chain gangs to learn what its like to work. Those kids are hoolums and should be dealt with strongly. I am sure parents wouldn't mind seeing their kids get punished and forced to walk in chains cleaning up streets as people spit on them and call them crooks like they are. Let me tell you when i was younger i would be with those kids but i have grown and matured. So if i had done things like they are doing or if it was my sons i still would want them locked up and made to work in chain gangs. What they are doing is sick and crazy and well basic humainity is being lost today with many youth. Its a shame. i feel so bad for those who are suffering from these crums. grrrr
Now i am all for the takedown of corporations and their power over the hardworking people and yet many times i worked for people for a place to stay and food to eat. I then proved myself and finally got a paycheck. All this negative energy wasted could be used to better the poor neighborhoods.
I am so mad i would castrate one testes from every male involved. Every woman would be made steril so they couldn't produce any more kids.
Times are tough but when the world falls into anarchy its time for drastic measures. I tell you i am ready out here where i live and people will be shot if they tried that stuff here.
I'm sorry for the people who suffer. But the attitude that life owes me a living, or that the world need to support me is not true. You owe society and you owe the world. Or you die.
Your choice, always has been. Always will be. Nothing is fair in life, nothing. If you can breathe you have a chance.
Cindy
Quote from: Princess of Hearts on August 09, 2011, 08:04:00 PM
Can the Americans imagine working and not being able to afford a car?!
Yes, many of us can and have direct experience of it.
Quote from: Renate on August 10, 2011, 05:54:02 AM
Yes, many of us can and have direct experience of it.
My family didn't have a car after my drunk dad had to leave and mom took the bus everywhere to work etc etc. Yes many many even today can not afford a car.. Thats is silly to think we are all rich. I have no running water in my house. I have to wash my clothes by hand. That was all i could afford to buy and be around good hard working people. Kids today want too much and this society of promoting consumerism is sick and needs to be stopped. Thats a lot of whats wrong with cities its all about what you have and not what you do. However, there are some good people in cities helping their neighbors and living a simple life. Many youth are doing things like being a WOOFER = willing worker on organic farms for the experience and food and sometimes a weekly stipend. thats what kids need to do and not think that the government owes them. However, we still need a government or else corporations would enslave people who think buying stuff is what life is about..
I just posted on Facebook. If they want to protest against "the Government oppressing the people", maybe they should go and join the common people of Syria who facing the tanks of a dictatorship.
Karen.
Quote from: justmeinoz on August 10, 2011, 04:11:21 AM
They are thieves pure and simple.
Hopefully they robbed Apple Stores :D , apple is the true thief XD
because they sell ->-bleeped-<- with the price of gold >:-)
Quote from: Narela on August 10, 2011, 06:48:48 AM
Hopefully they robbed Apple Stores :D , apple is the true thief XD
because they sell ->-bleeped-<- with the price of gold >:-)
No one needs those phones. Thats the problem with people today they all think they need to have every modern convience. I have no TV and my cell phone is 5 yrs old and doesn't take pics and i only pay if i use it.
You youth have been sold a negative lifestyle and you will never ever be happy which is a shame..
stop buying apple stuff and making them rich.. just live a simple life and be happy..
Quote from: M2MtF2FtM on August 10, 2011, 06:53:47 AM
No one needs those phones.
Exactly, Samsung is better
Quote from: M2MtF2FtM on August 10, 2011, 06:53:47 AM
I have no TV
television is going to die
Quote from: M2MtF2FtM on August 10, 2011, 06:53:47 AM
stop buying apple stuff and making them rich..
This is what i say, alot of problems with their stuff
(I just wanted to make a joke) XD
So, you don't like the looters and are proving it by hoping they steal Apple gear which will fail. I get it!
I'm not sure how to put this politely but I will try.
If you want something work for it. If there is no work go and find it. I travelled the world to find it. My parents starved to send me to school, I did not grow up a rioter. I grew up to take control of my life.
I have cleaned toilets, I have done everything, strangest job was working in a strip joint. I won't go into details, but it paid. I have never taken a days dole. I pay you f*wits to receive it. Suck your dummy and grow up.
Sorry sort of.
Cindy
Nothing to apologise for Cindy.
Despite being a Liberal voter I have never liked Malcolm Fraser. But he was right when he said "Life wasn't meant to be easy."
I have never willingly been unemployed for any longer than it took to get a job, and object to my taxes paying someone to sit on their backside bludging, instead of spending it on things like schools or hospitals. And when I did get a job it was through my own efforts, not by sitting around waiting for someone to give me something.
Karen.
I just saw the news 15 minuts ago..
A pakistani killed three teens, trying to defend the mosque
I am not a Muslim, but anyone trying to burn down a house of worship ( and I presume they had arson in mind) is a particularly nasty piece of work. 3-1 sounds like a pretty grim situation to be in, been there done that in a soccer riot.
Karen.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9560000/9560646.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9560000/9560646.stm)
Weirdest report ever.
Also..from this article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-psychology-of-looting (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-psychology-of-looting)
"How can you cease to believe in law and order, a moral universe, co-operation, the purpose of existence, and yet still believe in sportswear? How can you despise culture but still want the flatscreen TV from the bookies? Alex Hiller, a marketing and consumer expert at Nottingham Business School, points out that there is no conflict between anomie and consumption: "If you look at Baudrillard and other people writing in sociology about consumption, it's a falsification of social life. Adverts promote a fantasy land. Consumerism relies upon people feeling disconnected from the world."
Quote from: Narela on August 10, 2011, 08:00:18 AM
I just saw the news 15 minuts ago..
A pakistani killed three teens, trying to defend the mosque
i think its great and its about time these kids are put out. They are not worth a damn. They are not even worth putting in jails. They need to be exterminated and laws need to be changed where vigilanties are allowed to kill the rioters.
Quote from: justmeinoz on August 10, 2011, 08:08:16 AM
I am not a Muslim, but anyone trying to burn down a house of worship ( and I presume they had arson in mind) is a particularly nasty piece of work. 3-1 sounds like a pretty grim situation to be in, been there done that in a soccer riot.
Karen.
Thats another crazy thing. Sports need to be outlawed because they promote a few gaing super riches while many others getting nothing. Then there is all the riots at games. People need to join groups that help rebuild peoples homes etc for free with all that energy wasted on sports.. I HATE SPORTS... IT'S SICK .. people need to learn to grow their own food and help their neighbors and not have free time to play stupid games while others suffer who have real needs..
tell you the truth if i had my way i would castrate every male because we have too many people in the world and people should be made to do clean up and helping their neighbors etc etc then after a 30 yrs we could rexamine the need for allowing males to have testes and women have babies
Thats the problem with people today they all think they need to have every modern convience
He said, typing on a computer, and posting it on the internet.
Quote from: tekla on August 10, 2011, 09:11:17 AM
Thats the problem with people today they all think they need to have every modern convience
He said, typing on a computer, and posting it on the internet.
learn to read
EVERY word
The fact is, there are very few economically deprived people in the whole of 'the first world'. I was banging on about my economic position, but here I am typing on my computer drinking tea - that is the reason that the riots are not about economic deprivation, it's not about the howl of an underclass - not financially at least.
This is a social and cultural deprivation that drives this, and the government will be able to do nothing to change it, the communities themselves will have to change it...just look at places like Southall. It's a poor area, lots of people working horrid hours in convenience stores and the like - no riots there, and last night members of different faiths were standing on guard outside of each other's places of worship. This has nothing to do with money at all, greed maybe, but not money.
http://grubstreetlodger.blogspot.com/2011/08/its-not-economic-poverty-its-cultural.html (http://grubstreetlodger.blogspot.com/2011/08/its-not-economic-poverty-its-cultural.html)
Quote from: M2MtF2FtM on August 10, 2011, 09:00:30 AM
They need to be exterminated and laws need to be changed where vigilanties are allowed to kill the rioters.
Quote from: M2MtF2FtM on August 10, 2011, 09:05:07 AM
tell you the truth if i had my way i would castrate every male because we have too many people in the world and people should be made to do clean up and helping their neighbors etc etc then after a 30 yrs we could rexamine the need for allowing males to have testes and women have babies
Are you kiddin?
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.betisweb.com%2Fattachments%2Freal-betis-balompie%2F6779d1310718193-que-aburrimiento-con-los-descartes-facepalm_picard.jpg&hash=d5248bed01533705c0ba2a68f4d5fa1fd48f4483)
Quote from: Narela on August 10, 2011, 09:55:13 AM
Are you kiddin?
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.betisweb.com%2Fattachments%2Freal-betis-balompie%2F6779d1310718193-que-aburrimiento-con-los-descartes-facepalm_picard.jpg&hash=d5248bed01533705c0ba2a68f4d5fa1fd48f4483)
No i am not. We have way too many people on this planet as it is. Did you know we have almost 7 billion people. Our planet can only support 8 billion people. In just 6 short years we will have 8 billion people. google "crash course" read the truth..
heck here it is see it yourself and see what is in our future ==> http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse (http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse)
Quote from: M2MtF2FtM on August 10, 2011, 10:17:05 AM
No i am not. We have way too many people on this planet as it is. Did you know we have almost 7 billion people. Our planet can only support 8 billion people. In just 6 short years we will have 8 billion people. google "crash course" read the truth..
heck here it is see it yourself and see what is in our future ==> http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse (http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse)
This is CRAP, The new generations don't want children, they want party and be young forever
and if that happens, they will put a law like China
:police:
Can we please get this thread back on track? In my opinion, this has been an amazing firsthand chronicle of the human side of this event and I've deeply appreciated Pica's efforts in bringing it to us. I know this is in the politics section, but some of these comments advocating murder, sterilization, and further violence are getting rather out of hand. Stifling opinion is not in my nature, nor is it my aim here, but I'd deeply regret having to close this thread because of unsettling extraneous commentary.
Thanks all! :)
Forgive me Zoe i respect your views.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_YrFi5cMwTa4%2FTU8E0YkmA4I%2FAAAAAAAAABQ%2FH2fNFcXol0I%2Fs1600%2Fblackberry-messenger.jpg&hash=70577cc07776a34799681f33b95af08d32ae3a7e)
-Blackberry Messenger will be blocked in UK, this is what protesters use to organize riots
-Police shoud pay the cost of the riots, according to British law O-M-G
more than 100 millon, Pound sterling
I am taking an indefinite leave of absence from Susan's. Some of the opinions and attitudes expressed here have shocked and disturbed me to such an extent that I cannot and will not remain at the same forum as these people.
Quote from: Narela on August 10, 2011, 08:00:18 AM
I just saw the news 15 minuts ago..
A pakistani killed three teens, trying to defend the mosque
Where did you hear this? It's completely wrong.
The true story is that three pakistani muslims were killed when a car ran into a crowd of young muslim men standing outside a mosque. The mosque wasn't even being attacked.
Things do have a habit of getting mangled as they come out.
Like the cute story about Millwall supporters turning into an alarming story about the EDL turning into a daft story about the police kettling the NF on a roundabout. Trying to follow/track chaos is harder than trying to follow normal stuff, and that is hard enough.
Well, been out and had a chinese, saw a film and went to the place that gives away free books (how cool is that? You can take 3 - I also brought some old books to them to give out to someone else). A few more police around (saw some Welsh police of all places). Would appear that in NW London at least, this is all over for now. Time to see what can be done to make things better.
Can't say I agree with any extermination/castration etc... we are all equally people after all.
Quote from: Siren on August 10, 2011, 04:47:08 PM
Where did you hear this? It's completely wrong.
The true story is that three pakistani muslims were killed when a car ran into a crowd of young muslim men standing outside a mosque. The mosque wasn't even being attacked.
In spanish television, but i see the information was wrong €_€
And (I think) finally from me...
This is how Brits really deal with unrest and such - rubbish jokes.
This one subtitled, 'grab the lute'
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F29.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lppsk2gGhi1r1qajlo1_400.png&hash=1b6c73b324f7943487a83c047b51c82185ab2589)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lpq5f2vneg1r1qajlo1_500.png&hash=657c5a779dad74be3634c766ad5414eacf39004d)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F26.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lpphsgdR9t1r1qajlo1_500.png&hash=c4a8ddbf7ecc16874997b3633a9ea8ecb37de7c8)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F28.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lpq0koZ8AQ1r1qajlo1_500.png&hash=614289029e024012ceeda7d8df3079fa74cb53f4)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F28.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lppvcgZBzb1r1qajlo1_500.png&hash=28bf34708845b703ce2164c43288f64b7a756086)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lppp7qQKCz1r1qajlo1_500.png&hash=9d7fde8b58d2c2f3c21558802571c04ff2fdaddf)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F30.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lpobsvzgJW1r1qajlo1_500.png&hash=88e741e7d0fb03689d182eacb06ae8471a94de1b)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lpo3a2R3IA1r1qajlo1_500.png&hash=099ba1cacbd260db1560d7ff050afc9f88079725)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F27.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lpo2nx0aNT1r1qajlo1_400.png&hash=9187886f7fed25a36807977529deb537e19c1665)
How are things now Pica? Hope they have settled down a bit.
Karen.
Forgive me for my thoughts i just can't see how kids can go this wild and police be told to hold back when lives are being destroyed. Personally my two sons are believers in christ and hard work and do not seek silly stuff but seek true hearts and desire spiritual connection over superficial gain.
Forgive me God for my thoughts and feelings which are not towards your ways. I know i must not worry for all things here on earth.
Those pic.s are epically funny Pica :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: Narela on August 10, 2011, 07:04:01 AM
television is going to die
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*weep*
Sorry. I missed some posts but I've been travelling 60 miles each way to work some temp thing almost daily. I'm not bragging, just explaining my time is beaing eaten by excess travel.
I think once the cops bag a few people, they can search their electronics to see who they communicated with and then track down even more troublemakers. They need to understand exactly how communications worked in favor of the rioters so those channels of communication can be controlled during the next uprising.
I'm sure that some of these people joined only because of a mob mentality. If enough people are punished, maybe it'll inhibit some followers.
Maybe
Quote from: Pica Pica on August 10, 2011, 05:03:53 PM
And (I think) finally from me...
This is how Brits really deal with unrest and such - rubbish jokes.
Ah, much needed humour in an otherwise not so humourous situation. And besides, who can blame them for stealing cats?
(Sorry for the derailment, our topic will resume shortly).
No question the riots are disturbing. No question this affects members here. And no question this subject has ruffled a few feathers.
Maybe we need to chill for a bit. That something like this is compelling members to walk away is not in line with the purpose of this forum. And if a post or a thread is creating turmoil amongst the members, maybe we need to focus on the goal of Susans - to support our community.
So, if you will, let's let this rest for a while. I know for some it's very real, but Susans is global. We don't need anything that will alienate our family and it seems this subject, unrelated to transgender issues, has.
Can we do that?
Quote from: Julie Marie on August 10, 2011, 10:20:29 PM
No question the riots are disturbing. No question this affects members here. And no question this subject has ruffled a few feathers.
Maybe we need to chill for a bit. That something like this is compelling members to walk away is not in line with the purpose of this forum. And if a post or a thread is creating turmoil amongst the members, maybe we need to focus on the goal of Susans - to support our community.
So, if you will, let's let this rest for a while. I know for some it's very real, but Susans is global. We don't need anything that will alienate our family and it seems this subject, unrelated to transgender issues, has.
Can we do that?
Yes, PLEASE! This thread subject has been locked, blocked or deleted on my other forums. Joelene.
Yeah, that's right. Let's all ignore it. If we don't talk about it, it's not really happening is it? We have a lot of problems, some large enough to seriously weaken the social structure (as we are seeing), and about 95% of how those came about is because everyone was too busy 'realizing' themselves to care much (or do anything) about the communities and political systems they were living in. People became docile consumers of life, and not active participants.
If you can't handle dissent (a critically essential element in a democratic society), and if, when you find you can't silence it you just quit you are letting the forces of control and restriction win. It's a hell of a lesson to be teaching our opponents - just ignore them, and if you ignore trans stuff, if you never cover it, never report on it, never mention it at all, it ceases to exist. Hell, I ought to forward this to Focus on the Family, they'll love it.
I think the person left because we did not hail four days of pointless, consumarist destruction as the harbinger of a bright new era.
---Breaking news----
Alas, why do people have to be so human?
While the police were sorting the protests out in proscribed ways, breaking up groups but no breaking heads we could present this ideally, but now videos are on youtube of police beating up a looter. Things are never simple.
Manchester Riot Police Serve Up Some Cold, Hard Justice [HD] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1b74BdPfSQ&feature=aso#)
Dear goddess,
Mindless thuggery from the police. Lets all descend to the lowest denominator. The police involved should get double the sentence of the other thugs.
IMO
Cindy
Quote from: tekla on August 11, 2011, 12:21:56 AM
Yeah, that's right. Let's all ignore it. If we don't talk about it, it's not really happening is it? We have a lot of problems, some large enough to seriously weaken the social structure (as we are seeing), and about 95% of how those came about is because everyone was too busy 'realizing' themselves to care much (or do anything) about the communities and political systems they were living in. People became docile consumers of life, and not active participants.
If you can't handle dissent (a critically essential element in a democratic society), and if, when you find you can't silence it you just quit you are letting the forces of control and restriction win. It's a hell of a lesson to be teaching our opponents - just ignore them, and if you ignore trans stuff, if you never cover it, never report on it, never mention it at all, it ceases to exist. Hell, I ought to forward this to Focus on the Family, they'll love it.
Then why not have a thread for each and every human hell happening throughout the world! We could post endless pictures of people being hung, shot in the head, of starving kids, beaten women, the list goes on and on.
There's plenty of social and political forums out there in Internet land, where you can find just the kind of stuff you're advocating we have here. Sure, get pissed at what's happening in London and do something about it, but when we get pissed at each other, what does continuing to discuss this subject accomplish?
There's been a lot of complaints about this thread. I don't see anything being discussed here having any effect on the riots but it sure is having an effect here, a negative one. That's why it's time to cool it.
How is a thread any different than a TV show. You don't have to watch/read it. It's clearly labeled "London Riots" so it's not like someone stuck it in, that's pretty much on the money as descriptive. So no one was fooled or lured into it.
And here we have a long standing member in it. And unlike a lot of the 'support stuff' in here, which is people blowing a gasket because someone got a pronoun wrong, or bought them the wrong color underwear - this is real serious stuff. Serious damage. This is not someone whining about what a 10 year old thought of them, this is one of our own people in the middle of riot - which - (if you'r paying attention, which I doubt) doesn't seem to be stopping, but rather, spreading. A riot in one of the major capitols of the Western World.
Humm, on one hand we have 'I'm afraid to go into a department store and buy a pair of boxers' and on the other hand we have 'they are burning down the department store down the street and looting it.'
BTW, aren't the next Olympics there? Good times.
And something to keep in mind, well two things really... One, people worry about the 'spark' that sets this stuff off, but I'd be much more worried about the fuel that keeps it going. Two, last time we had real riots in the USA, they had to send in the Army. And that was before a huge proliferation of military grade weapons, most of which went to criminal elements, gangs and inner city activities. (ie. people are not hunting with M-16s/AKs/Tech9s) The next time we are going to have to send in the Army to one of our cities, its' going to be very bad.
http://www.aoltv.com/2011/08/10/jon-stewart-london-riots-daily-show-video/ (http://www.aoltv.com/2011/08/10/jon-stewart-london-riots-daily-show-video/)
Jon Stewart made me laugh. Especially about the queuing looters.
As for still going on - it's hard to say while we still have half the country's police in the capital. (I saw a few Cumbrian police vans). I hear Liverpool, Manchester and Midlands were fairly quiet last night - we shall see.
There are loads of interesting blogs and posts about explanations for the riots, but I thought that'd bore most people because it is just each individual person going on their own hobbyhorse.
and as for US riots - eesh, if this thing goes there and spreads as it has here with the high levels of participation and organisation but with the added excitement of live rounds of ammunition on both sides. If I was a praying andro, I'd pray this doesn't come your way and if I were a betting one I'd bet it might.
The olympics might be a welcome relief.
Some good quotes from the BBC
"The level of ignorance of many of those rioting was plain to see...they were looting Tesco in Tottenham for bottles of champagne which they then used as missiles to throw at buses. Even those with a modicum of class know that you have red wine with the bus course."
"There's been a lot of talk about the rioters/looters rejecting the values of society. It seems to me they've embraced them."
More funny not-quite-real looting photos from photoshoplooter.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F29.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lpr64s0E9z1r1qajlo1_500.jpg&hash=1f5c2c2d12b5cea480ec9ac599e2daff3a2a4321)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F26.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lprhdnRq521r1qajlo1_500.jpg&hash=314047c64d9271da9d3e94841e6fbdfac5656e02)
and I submitted one to them that I made about queuing looters - added some bus pass looters on.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm208%2Fphairrose%2Flootersqueing.png&hash=0451219ec435ae67b99f9588dab543fa2eed6b68)
Personally i think its sick to make jokes about what happened. Thats the problem with people these days they make light of this stuff.
Oh our goverment politicians are robbing us ha ha ha on comedy TV ha ha ha
Oh look at that those poor kids (looters) are finally getting some free sneakers ha ha ha
You can do many things, but you can't stop is queuing or joking.
Pica, Thanks for sharing this with us. I am glad you did as it was the first I heard if it, but not the last by any means. I'm not sure what anyone has against news that affects those around us.
The British media have shown themselves to be the shameless and spineless mouthpieces of the 'Masters'. I have always believed that the BBC was secretly the government's creature, but I couldn't prove it. However, the BBC's coverage of these disturbances wouldn't have looked out of place in the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and Maoist China.
Both the Soviets and the Chinese would have called these people: Counter-revolutionaries, strike leaders and factory sabateurs . The Nazis would have called them 'Jews, Communists, homosexuals and untermensch'. Here the poodle media calls them 'Criminal, sick, workshy, Underclass, and non-white.'
What do you mean 'secretly' it's partially state funded TV. Nothing secret about it.
Please tell us the real story then - because as far as I can see, your version is about the brave people that looted people's workplaces and burnt out 40 families' houses in the name of 'petulantly getting stuff I want now'.
And besides - the media are not calling them 'non-white', one thing they all agree on is the mixture of people who looted. I think criminal is a good word - doing the stuff they have done is criminal...only those wanting to change things for the better and invest in those community are calling them the underclass - it's being revealed (in the media) that many of them are not workshy and they either have jobs or are too young for jobs - and only Cameron said 'sick' and who listens to him?
Did you watch Question Time, the 'masters' can't even agree with each other.
Quote from: Pica Pica on August 11, 2011, 11:13:33 AM
More funny not-quite-real looting photos from photoshoplooter.
and I submitted one to them that I made about queuing looters - added some bus pass looters on.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm208%2Fphairrose%2Flootersqueing.png&hash=0451219ec435ae67b99f9588dab543fa2eed6b68)
The four Seniors in the lower left corner, onlookers? Looks like they're standing in line! :laugh:
They are standing line.
Perhaps I can look at these disturbances coolly and politically because there are no disturbances in my part of the world. We Scots pride ourselves on being fun, friendly, good-natured, with the ability to laugh at ourselves. It is the English who are always letting the good name of Britain down. David Mitchell has said that the English are fundamentally a conservative, inward looking people, with quasi- fascist views.* According to Mitchell if it wasn't for the Scots and the Welsh voting Labour Britain would have had to wait until 1997 for its first Labour government. The English have always been Tories to a large degree. I suppose it is their Teutonic blood showing itself.
:laugh:
* We had a visit from the English side of the family last weekend. They live in the Surrey 'Stockbroker belt' area. They were going on about 'those bl***y foreigners/immigrants/coloured persons'. And that we need to bring back hanging/the Birch and the 'short, sharp, shock'. 'Flog 'em within an inch of their lives...that is the only language these people understand.' Although my cousins have Scottish parents born and bred, they are English through and through.
Quote from: Princess of Hearts on August 11, 2011, 07:45:16 PM
Perhaps I can look at these disturbances coolly and politically because there are no disturbances in my part of the world. We Scots pride ourselves on being fun, friendly, good-natured, with the ability to laugh at ourselves. It is the English who are always letting the good name of Britain down. David Mitchell has said that the English are fundamentally a conservative, inward looking people, with quasi- fascist views.* According to Mitchell if it wasn't for the Scots and the Welsh voting Labour Britain would have had to wait until 1997 for its first Labour government. The English have always been Tories to a large degree. I suppose it is their Teutonic blood showing itself.
:laugh:
* We had a visit from the English side of the family last weekend. They live in the Surrey 'Stockbroker belt' area. They were going on about 'those bl***y foreigners/immigrants/coloured persons'. And that we need to bring back hanging/the Birch and the 'short, sharp, shock'. 'Flog 'em within an inch of their lives...that is the only language these people understand.' Although my cousins have Scottish parents born and bred, they are English through and through.
Need to take that language to the parking lot, not here. We've finally stopped fighting the Civil War over here.
Quote from: Princess of Hearts on August 11, 2011, 07:45:16 PM
It is the English who are always letting the good name of Britain down.
This seems like a rather sweeping generalization.
We've finally stopped fighting the Civil War over here.
You're kidding right? Seems to me that a few years ago a whole lot of people when to bed and when they woke up a black man was President of the United States, and their heads promptly exploded. The amount of sheer insanity that escaped all those heads has truly been epic.
Quote from: Princess of Hearts on August 11, 2011, 07:45:16 PM
Perhaps I can look at these disturbances coolly and politically because there are no disturbances in my part of the world. We Scots pride ourselves on being fun, friendly, good-natured, with the ability to laugh at ourselves.
Hehehe, I wouldn't say you've been very cool or detached, and I certainly wouldn't regard fun, friendly or good natured as parts of the Scottish national stereotype that presides over here. That said, I work with 8 Scots in my school, and my Dad's mentor (who helped our family out of the bad times) is a Scot, as is my grandad - and excepting my grandad, they are good humoured people, if still not exactly friendly.
I think it's the duty of a person's family to be racist and reactionary and to not seem to thought any of their views few. I have a great many family members in the beautiful Sussex town of Crawley and they all just spout these strange and offensive views without even thinking through what is is they are actually saying. The weirdest one they said is how much they think thieves should have their hands cut off.
Of course, the Labour party is an English party, and has a great many voters up north - indeed, tory voters are mostly in the home counties, but seeing as that is where the concentration of w/bankers live, it's not all that surprising. And you do know David Mitchell is a comedian right? A comedian that plays on his 'middle-england, minor public school' persona.
Rioters strike in Edinburgh 10th August 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW0356brnrE&feature=player_embedded#)
Nice one. Poms (and Scots) and Aussies have the same sense of humour. I get it even if the American members of Susan's sometimes miss the point.
How have things been overnight? The cleaning-up has received a bit of coverage here too.
Karen.
http://www.france24.com/en/20110811-british-pm-david-cameron-vows-make-rioters-pay-london-police?ns_campaign=nl_bo_en&ns_mchannel=email_marketing&ns_source=NLBO_32_20110812&ns_linkname=20110811_british_pm_david_cameron_vows_make&ns_fee=0&f24_member_id=1004586686845 (http://www.france24.com/en/20110811-british-pm-david-cameron-vows-make-rioters-pay-london-police?ns_campaign=nl_bo_en&ns_mchannel=email_marketing&ns_source=NLBO_32_20110812&ns_linkname=20110811_british_pm_david_cameron_vows_make&ns_fee=0&f24_member_id=1004586686845)
REUTERS - Prime Minister David Cameron, grappling with what could prove a defining crisis of his premiership, told parliament on Thursday rioters behind Britain's worst violence in decades would be tracked down and punished.
"The fightback has well and truly begun," he said in a statement to an emergency session of parliament, telling rioters: "You will pay for what you have done."
Cameron is under pressure to soften austerity plans, toughen policing and do more for inner-city communities, even as economic malaise grips a nation whose social and perhaps racial tensions have exploded in four nights of bewildering mayhem.
IN PICTURES: AFTERMATH OF THE MANCHESTER RIOTS
The British leader said he would keep a higher police presence of 16,000 officers on London streets through the weekend and would consider calling in troops for secondary roles in future unrest to free up frontline police.
Among other measures, he said he would give police powers to demand the removal of face masks or other coverings if their wearers were suspected of crime, and pledged to crack down on criminal "street gangs" to "help mend our broken society".
Quote from: tekla on August 12, 2011, 12:22:46 AM
We've finally stopped fighting the Civil War over here.
You're kidding right? Seems to me that a few years ago a whole lot of people when to bed and when they woke up a black man was President of the United States, and their heads promptly exploded. The amount of sheer insanity that escaped all those heads has truly been epic.
Though that is what occured amongst the Republicans, and if you include South Carolina's flag...But you're out in California, not the Deep South or Southwest. Remember.."brewery down the street, best vineyards and winery's in the world"... Besides it makes "The Colonies" seem a little more civil in comparison. :laugh:
Princess, an article we can both agree on.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100100708/the-moral-decay-of-our-society-is-as-bad-at-the-top-as-the-bottom/ (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100100708/the-moral-decay-of-our-society-is-as-bad-at-the-top-as-the-bottom/)
I have visited the UK and after a couple of months spent there a few years ago, felt that I was observing a nation starting to fray at the edges and unravel. No other part of Europe seemed to be drowning in a sea of drugs and alcohol quite the way the UK was.
It looks like it has only got worse.A nihilistic culture seemed to be common to a lot of young people, with a lack of individual enterprise. Lots of people asking why they weren't being given a job, rather than bemoaning the fact that they couldn't find one. Thers is a world of difference between the two.
Perhaps the spontaneous cleaning up, and local people patrolling their streets, even though it could be regarded as vigilanteism, are a sign that people are just going to do things for themselves rather than wait on the Govt.
Karen.
A stunning article,
A couple of points and a few comments, and dare I say it some apologies.
I was born and brought up in Toxteth area in Liverpool, to hard working parents who sacrificed their life to raise their children. They knew at the time that education was everything. The had come out of a war with little. They paid every penny for our education. Myself and two sisters. I was the bright one. The golden boy. Except I wasn't and am not a boy.
It broke their hearts.
I now teach at a University level in Australia, I fled the 'UK' for many reasons but one was living through the Toxteth race riots. Fuelled by racial hate.
I could not live in that environment. I work. I have never taken the dole, or social security. I'm lucky and blessed that Mum and Dad taught me that cleaning puke filled toilets in pubs in areas of Liverpool that rats would not live in was worthwhile work. It was, I had to pay my student loans, no one else could.
Being close to young people at Uni, they are a joy. But they are educated and motivated, yes there are dead heads, always will be. But the majority want to live and advance, and yes drink, party, do some drugs and be normal kids.
What is the difference? Why are kids and adults in the 'UK' getting into rioting? Princess suggested it was social reaction against oppressive governments. I find that strange you have one of the most ineffectual governments I have seen. I'm sorry but I do not see the oppression, I do not see the bias reporting. I just see mobs robbing places. I see people who have no training or education in why a family is abandoning their parental responsibility, and unable to spell either. Why has this happened?
My I suggest the underlying factor that is driving these situations is greed. Greed has a profound effect on the psyche. It allows the rich to justify their role and the poor to be subjected. It also allows the poor to retaliate against the rich, hints of the French Revolution?
But it also justifies anarchy. But anarchy is fundamentally flawed. The strong win, the weak are used, As Pete Townsend said, 'We don't get Fooled Again' but you will. Anarchy does that, because the weak will never be protected, we saw that in the riots, the weak, were robbed and killed. The mob ruled, do we want to be ruled by the Mob?
The Cultural Revolution in China was controlled Mob rule. It was evil (IMO), And it wasn't true anarchy.
What is anarchy? You can go through heaps of definitions. Some profound, few educational. It is mob rule..
Princes you have presented your opinions openly and discussed your feelings.
Thank you, I apologise if I have been rude in any way.
I spent some glorious times in Scotland.
Hugs
Cindy
Quote from: justmeinoz on August 12, 2011, 06:36:14 AM
I have visited the UK and after a couple of months spent there a few years ago, felt that I was observing a nation starting to fray at the edges and unravel. No other part of Europe seemed to be drowning in a sea of drugs and alcohol quite the way the UK was.
And some would say that is because we are culturally closer to America than Sweden.
The book 'Affluenza' by Oliver James states a wonderful case that there is a culture of extrinsic goals that has grown up - starting in America - that values things from 'outside', that yearns for praise, fame, the status that money and possessions give and that it made people feel powerless and unhappy. He also claims that countries like Sweden and Denmark, which are run less on the individualistic 'grab what you can' ideals are less likely to feel this. He might be talking bollocks, but I think he has a point.
My favourite claim is that the culture that has created this wants misery, strives to create misery, because people then try and buy themselves out of it. I went to a lecture by an advertising man (who's name has gone from my memory) who talked about 'creating needs' in people. He often goes too far in his claims, and some of his beliefs on how to right the wrongs of the world are often a bit nutty - but I think he hits upon a lot of interesting points on the way.
(A fairly simplistic rendering of what he says here)
http://www.redpepper.org.uk/Selfish-capitalism-is-making-us/ (http://www.redpepper.org.uk/Selfish-capitalism-is-making-us/)
Quote from: Cindy James on August 12, 2011, 07:04:31 AM
My I suggest the underlying factor that is driving these situations is greed. Greed has a profound effect on the psyche. It allows the rich to justify their role and the poor to be subjected. It also allows the poor to retaliate against the rich, hints of the French Revolution?
I'd agree - Greed and the unfairness that those who went to the right schools get away with it.
You could be right there.
There was a feeling that the USA was lurking just over the horizon, everpresent in a way which I don't feel here in Australia, even though we are far more like the US than the UK is.
It wasn't that there was more media coverage or anything like that, more a feeling that the US had usurped Britain's place in the world and reduced it to a minor partner in a lop-sided relationship. That feeling seemed to have infected all parts of society with a slight dose of Depression.
Karen.
History very adequately demonstrates in a most casual manner all over the globe and through all known historical time that: no one is safe when civil order breaks down. It's never 'good' in any way. Perhaps the Storming of the Bastille brought about a democratic France, still, I'll bet that was a rough time in old Paris those nights. And people are crazy enough all over as it is.
So yeah, it's swell up here in the midst of living in one of the most liberal areas of the nation, and the nation truly is mostly large urban areas that are pretty liberal. I've got my Russian River Brewery and vineyards true enough, but as my pal reminded me the other day he walks out and gets coffee across the street and sits and watches the boats go out of the Marina Del Rey harbor. Yet, between his latte sipping land sailors and my pals swilling their Pliny the Elder, there's a lot of people who are not so liberal. Portland is pretty liberal, and most of the Willamette Valley (Eugene ect) are, but the rest of Oregon, not so much. Most of the Coasts in the US are, inland not so much. And when you look at the area between NYC and LA, that's a lot of area.
And it seems in real bad situations that crazy starts to spread, and people who normally would not go burning and lootin' do. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, you know? For sure you're not going to be able to get out there and stop a mob all by yourself, right? So faced with this large mass of humans in the process of going all rabid and all, basic self-preservation kicks in and tells you to join that mob right away least it go all rabid on you.
Its extremism at both ends that cause the problems. I have lived in so called liberal areas (cities) and they have too much liberality that makes them think they can do whatever they want. Then i have seen areas near them that are bastions of conservatism (suburban) where they got it and and want to keep it and don't want liberals anywhere near their kids. Then there are simple country folk who are very calm and not all hyped up into either side. I have seen a country gay man talk to an amish man about how cute he is and the amish man say but i am married and my wife would get jelous. I think its about people living too close to one another. Too much time on their hands and too many others around them who won't keep their trash picked up and so they won't either. At least out here in the country if someone has trash it can't be seen by their neighbor. people in the country are more inclined to realize that, that person is related to a neighbor and they can overlook many things. On the otherhand the tensions from city to suburb is strong and powerful and filled with many middle class who only want their kids to go to cities for college or to run big offices or control hundreds of rental properties that are rented to the city dwelers. Oh there are some rich who realize that the cities are going to be the place to use less energy and so many poor in cities are being pushed aside with gentrification projects.
If you want true peace come to the country where people are not trying to live like city folks and where hard work keeps them too busy to fight their neighbors who they wouldn't fight anyway because most of them are them (neighbors). Yes the conflict from city to suburban is very extreme. Much stronger than any simple country people have except for that one crazed church in kansas that hates everyone.
This world has way too many people in it. Its also getting more populated as we speak. 7 billion people by october 2011 and in 6 more yrs another billion where the earth will be at its limit with regards to resources. Think about that!
This thread is amazing. I think I'll share it later. A-maz-ing.
I always remember my high school social studies teacher saying "Happy people don't riot". It's true. When people are too busy to riot (they're working, etc) - well there are no riots.
Sign o the times I guess...
Quote from: regan on August 12, 2011, 02:06:34 PM
I always remember my high school social studies teacher saying "Happy people don't riot". It's true. When people are too busy to riot (they're working, etc) - well there are no riots.
Sign o the times I guess...
very very true .. and i do hope the UK and many countries create jobs for their people
and here in the USA we need CETA jobs again like we had after vietnam .. comprehensive employment training act = service jobs to help people and government positions such as parks and recreation and solid waste and health etc etc etc I got one of those jobs (because i was a veterans who got in trouble for stealing a turkey from an outside freezer) and was able to turn a newly built container site into a recycling center in N. Calif. in 1974
Anyone want to take a practice UK citizenship test?
http://www.ukcitizenshiptest.co.uk/ (http://www.ukcitizenshiptest.co.uk/)
I failed. It's all dates and statistics and I have a black hole rather than a memory for numbers.
This is the word from Dr David Starkey.
David Starkey On Newsnight (Whites Have Become Blacks) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU5TcTSa9kk#)
I know, those comments have caused a little discussion I can tell yer.
Oliver Goldsmith (resurrected and well and living in Peckham) had this to say about Starkey onTwitter.
"David Starkey, if the WHITES have become BLACK, you must be looking at the NEGATIVE and not the TRUE PICTURE."
why can't we just toss all troublemakers onto some island far away where they won't bother us? Maybe some island in the pacific?
They are already on an island!
I got the joke...Australia being the punch line... :)
I was worried that he wanted to send them to Tahiti.
Right on.
They tried that with
Australia,by sending the trouble makers there. ::) ::) ::) ::)
Convicts won. And we have a happy place
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:Cindy
Quote from: Rebis on August 13, 2011, 12:16:03 PM
why can't we just toss all troublemakers onto some island far away where they won't bother us? Maybe some island in the pacific?
Be at Leso.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theforestatnight.com%2Fsusans%2FLeso.jpg&hash=b661589edd331232b507b03911436ed3d379e56e)
Quote from: Pica Pica on August 13, 2011, 09:17:59 AM
I know, those comments have caused a little discussion I can tell yer.
Oliver Goldsmith (resurrected and well and living in Peckham) had this to say about Starkey onTwitter.
"David Starkey, if the WHITES have become BLACK, you must be looking at the NEGATIVE and not the TRUE PICTURE."
That man should have been addressing people by culture/subculture. Like 'some
British have become
gangster'.
They have become disenfranchised. One possible solution is to make an effort to increase eduction in those areas and introduce national history and values to as many people as possible. To encourage, teach, and train residents to start their own legit businesses, or have large companies com in and recruit. A lot of people like to learn and to strive toward something but simply don't know how to or don't understand the process. (that's me).
Quote from: tekla on August 13, 2011, 12:18:20 PM
They are already on an island!
but it's iin the Atlantic. Too close to Europe, proper.
Thank you all for knowing I was joking.
Could send them all to Tasmania, Karen could be head prefect :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Cindy
Quote from: tekla on August 13, 2011, 12:18:20 PM
They are already on an island!
Gitmo? (Guantanamo Bay)
I don't know about Gitmo. It's where I'm planning on spending my retirement. I'm waiting at my home to be transported there. I don't want to spend my life (sentence) with gangsters. I'm sure the other inhabitants will agree.
Quote from: Rebis on August 13, 2011, 03:20:05 PM
I don't know about Gitmo. It's where I'm planning on spending my retirement. I'm waiting at my home to be transported there. I don't want to spend my life (sentence) with gangsters. I'm sure the other inhabitants will agree.
Oh come on. Pelican bay is in a beautiful location :) We got tons of room here.
London Riots - Scottish Falsetto Sock Puppet Theatre (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iviX2x19zC0&feature=featured#)
Head Prefect? That means Spanking!! >:-)
Karen.
Lot of problems here in the UK right now of which the riots are just one. Rampant corruption demonstrated by the New International story. Journalists, editors, Police and politicians involved. Then we have economic meltdown, unemployment, a right wing government with a front bench of posh multi millionaires, the second highest wealth gap in the developed world, a growing racist far right Islamophobic party in the EDL and more, much, more.
Where will it all end is of course what we all ask ourselves. Frankly I fear the worst, this has been a long time coming and whatever government we have they will sacrifice the population for their own survival. History tells us that is always the case.
The solution? Wish I knew, could be a working class revolution but that cannot work on a national level or alternatively the Universal Caliphate! (Joke)
Quote from: mimpi on September 07, 2011, 02:33:56 PM
Frankly I fear the worst, this has been a long time coming and whatever government we have they will sacrifice the population for their own survival. History tells us that is always the case.
According to every educational consultant/practitioner I've talked to, the kids have already been sacrificed.
Quote from: Princess of Hearts on September 06, 2011, 08:22:11 PM
London Riots - Scottish Falsetto Sock Puppet Theatre (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iviX2x19zC0&feature=featured#)
Princess you have a very good point here with this video. I know i was angry at the stealing when if they had just been protesting i would have been on their side. I will give you a positive point for this video. It did make me think. thanks sis
Quote from: Pica Pica on September 07, 2011, 03:47:56 PM
According to every educational consultant/practitioner I've talked to, the kids have already been sacrificed.
Very true, the results of that stupid decision will be paid for by us all in the near future. Heaven alone knows what's coming.
What does Pica Pica mean, is it Malay? Hope you don't mind me asking :)
Pica Pica is the Scientific Latin name for the Common M->-bleeped-<-ie.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Iu1mntw73Z4/Swyn82spObI/AAAAAAAAAQU/3uMQy43USL0/s1600/pica_pica_071108__mg_7082.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Iu1mntw73Z4/Swyn82spObI/AAAAAAAAAQU/3uMQy43USL0/s1600/pica_pica_071108__mg_7082.jpg)
I don't know about common m->-bleeped-<-ies, but I do a thieving m->-bleeped-<-ie - and it's scary how much of what Burgess wrote, and Kubrick filmed seemed to be prophecy and not fiction.
A Clockwork Orange: Alex puts his Droogs in place (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v90KPJ6n4Ew&feature=related#)
The Simpsons-A Clockwork Orange Parody (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpXbOOHOoJE&NR=1#)
That's what I saw when I visited in 2001, for three months and again for two weeks in 2003 Tekla. I felt like I was watching a society fray around the edges prior to unravelling.
Probably time to suggest restoration of Hadrian's Wall, Princess. To keep the Poms out this time!
Karen.
Clockwork Orange was of course filmed in Thamesmead (South East London) which does have a bit of a reputation to be honest! As a South Londoner who lives in what is considered a high crime area and where we had a bit of minor rioting I feel perfectly safe. Always best to be street wise and check what's going on around one and of course avoid catching the eye of obvious trouble and then all will be fine. We get shootings, even one ON the ice in the local ice rink, stabbings and so on but it's confined to kids and doesn't feel like a threat.
Of course it's wrong and terrible but it's the price we are paying for a messed up society, high unemployment, massive wealth inequality, poor education, lack of opportunity, racial prejudice, Islamophobia and more. As I previously mentioned elsewhere on this site it's the fault of the policies enacted by a succession of governments since 1979 that have punished the poor and disadvantaged in favour of corporations and the well off.
The question is: why did people vote them in? The answer is in my personal opinion ignorance, selfishness, greed and the delusion that they could drag themselves up the ladder. The ladder of property and that of social class.
Karl Marx may, and it's a big may, have got things wrong as far as Communism goes but he hit the nail on the head as regards economics. Capitalism in it's present form has no future and what we will have to endure in its death throws doesn't bear thinking about. Hard times are with us now and worse, far worse is coming. In my opinion we are heading towards a form of Neo Fascism where corporations will run nations and there will be perpetual war and the demonisation of the "other". In recent times that has been the "communists" and now it has become Islam. Of course all of us here are in one way or another "others" in the eyes of the majority whether or not we accept that reality. As such we should try to be tolerant and strive against oppression of minorities and for greater social justice. Insha'Allah ;) we will find the strength to make this a better world.
Quote from: justmeinoz on September 09, 2011, 02:40:14 AM
That's what I saw when I visited in 2001, for three months and again for two weeks in 2003 Tekla. I felt like I was watching a society fray around the edges prior to unravelling.
Probably time to suggest restoration of Hadrian's Wall, Princess. To keep the Poms out this time!
Karen.
Lol! Is that unravelling like Australian Cricket ;)
As a South Londoner who lives in what is considered a high crime area and where we had a bit of minor rioting I feel perfectly safe. Always best to be street wise and check what's going on around one and of course avoid catching the eye of obvious trouble and then all will be fine. We get shootings, even one ON the ice in the local ice rink, stabbings and so on but it's confined to kids and doesn't feel like a threat.
That's some mighty diminished expectations going down there. I never have to 'look' or 'check around' or worry about who I make eye contact with. When I lived in Iowa we never took the keys out of the cars and in 10 years never once locked the door, even when we went on vacation.
Quote from: tekla on September 09, 2011, 12:17:44 PM
As a South Londoner who lives in what is considered a high crime area and where we had a bit of minor rioting I feel perfectly safe. Always best to be street wise and check what's going on around one and of course avoid catching the eye of obvious trouble and then all will be fine. We get shootings, even one ON the ice in the local ice rink, stabbings and so on but it's confined to kids and doesn't feel like a threat.
That's some mighty diminished expectations going down there. I never have to 'look' or 'check around' or worry about who I make eye contact with. When I lived in Iowa we never took the keys out of the cars and in 10 years never once locked the door, even when we went on vacation.
It has it's good side, very multicultural, beautiful park close by, good transport links to Central London and friends nearby. Apart from having motorcycle stolen have never had any problems ever in London. If one is any one of LGBTQI London is the safest and best place to be in the UK, Brighton bores me tbh, full of clones.
Forgive me but is Iowa in the middle of the US?
Middle of nowhere. And FTR I never worry about that in Santa Rosa either.
I never worry, though people tell me I should. Only place I've ever had trouble was a very 'nice' part of London full of rich people.
As for Pica Pica, it does mean m->-bleeped-<-ie.
That'd be right Pica. The Chelsea fans who gave the club such a bad name a few years ago certainly weren't short of a quid!
Let's not talk about Chelsea. QPR are playing Newcastle on Monday btw... ;D
Joking aside I've had trouble in London in Dagenham, Barking and Upney. Lived there for six months once, seriously scary places at times.
The thread necromancer strikes.....
Though more to say that it has been very cold recently, and all the children have been rocking up to school swaddled in big coats and scarves and an interesting game was observed amongst the year threes (7-8 year olds). They were tying scarves around their faces, running around the playground in groups and making threatening gestures at the air. When asked what they were doing, the answer was 'we're playing rioters'.
It takes a while, but the whole world trickles down to the playground eventually.
Quote from: Pica Pica on December 10, 2011, 06:40:02 PM
The thread necromancer strikes.....
Though more to say that it has been very cold recently, and all the children have been rocking up to school swaddled in big coats and scarves and an interesting game was observed amongst the year threes (7-8 year olds). They were tying scarves around their faces, running around the playground in groups and making threatening gestures at the air. When asked what they were doing, the answer was 'we're playing rioters'.
It takes a while, but the whole world trickles down to the playground eventually.
Kia Ora Pica,
::) It's sad really...Little undiscriminating brains, like sponges absorbing the wholesome along with the unwholesome...
Metta Zenda :)
bloody youths! :laugh:
Quote from: Zenda on December 10, 2011, 07:47:49 PM
Kia Ora Pica,
::) It's sad really...Little undiscriminating brains, like sponges absorbing the wholesome along with the unwholesome...
Metta Zenda :)
I'm not so sure about that. In my experience, children are very discriminating and play is their way of processing and understanding something the way that discussion is for adults.
Quote from: Pica Pica on December 11, 2011, 02:07:24 AM
I'm not so sure about that. In my experience, children are very discriminating and play is their way of processing and understanding something the way that discussion is for adults.
True, children will act out whatever they observe, whether they feel good or bad about what happened is often a separate but relative issue
Hopefully the way people came out for the clean up will have defused any likelihood of them thinking rioting was a good thing.
next time the police should bring flame throwers and clean up the mess before it's made. :)
next time the police should bring flame throwers and clean up the mess before it's made.
Missing the Third Reich much? I mean they didn't have any problem with civil disturbances back then, and hey, the trains ran on time too.
Quote from: tekla on December 25, 2011, 02:56:56 PM
next time the police should bring flame throwers and clean up the mess before it's made.
Missing the Third Reich much? I mean they didn't have any problem with civil disturbances back then, and hey, the trains ran on time too.
ROFLMAO :laugh:
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive."
"Every generation needs a new revolution."
Thomas Jefferson
(1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President
Quote from: tekla on December 25, 2011, 03:14:09 PM
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive."
"Every generation needs a new revolution."
Thomas Jefferson
(1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President
Wow you are a lunatic. You believe rioters were righteous? You're a knob mate. Those people are killers, rapists and social degenerates.
Quote from: tekla on December 25, 2011, 02:56:56 PM
next time the police should bring flame throwers and clean up the mess before it's made.
Missing the Third Reich much? I mean they didn't have any problem with civil disturbances back then, and hey, the trains ran on time too.
I miss people being civil, gentle and polite.
Hey, I didn't come out on the side of making protesters flambe & before the trouble begins even. I just pointed out some people who also would have shared that point of view.
Quote from: tekla on December 27, 2011, 10:09:52 PM
Hey, I didn't come out on the side of making protesters flambe & before the trouble begins even. I just pointed out some people who also would have shared that point of view.
You accused me of missing the third Reich, presumably because I discussed the third Reich on another thread.
As if the Nazis would have flame throwered a mob anyway. They would have just beat them up like the USA police do today. You are just ignorant.
:police:
A happy civilised thread to discuss our problems.
Ah why the poison?
Any chance of rational thought, acceptance and discussion?
Difficult concepts that they may be.
Mmm
Cindy
In the past year we've had London. Athens. New York (on Wall Street even). Cairo. Libya. Moscow. Albania. Syria. Spain. ...and the beat goes on...
In all, 24 countries (big ones, 'stable' ones) had civil protests last year over domestic policies, many ended in riots. (and when asking who causes a riot, ask which side came dressed for one) On October 15, people in 950 different cities in different 82 countries had protests to support "Occupy" and the Spanish movement, many ended with arrests and police actions.
People from all over, from all walks of life, from all kinds of backgrounds and political orientations seem to be doing the Howard Beale and going to the window and yelling: "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore." That's how it starts. It does not have to be focused, or specific, or based on universally supported notions/grievances. All it has to do is be a vague but steady discontent. Issues will form around the anger, and they are beginning...
There is increasing agreement that:
-the basic structure of the financial system is out of whack, and if not exactly in free-fall yet (though in some areas it seems to be), it's definitively reeling like a drunken sailor, it's out of it's own control, and seemingly out of human/governmental/financial and systematic control - all at the same time.
-governments are not exactly responding to problems, and in many cases (see: U.S. Congress for perhaps the best example) appear to be totally broken and non-functional. Government spending is at an all time high (everywhere), yet the more money that is poured out, the more diminished the returns.
-corporations (and not just in the US, but world-wide) have far too much power (and far too much access to the power they don't directly have), far too much control over the money and resources, and zero responsibility beyond making more money, and as a result have become a distinct liability and a serious impediment to basic change, much less real progress.
-there is a basic inequality in the system larger than people are willing to accept, and seemingly larger than the system itself can handle. It's a basic inequality that threatens the stability and sustainability of the most fundamental social structures (the ones that stand between us and anarchy, and it's not all that much), and, as a result, even people who don't know exactly why, feel frightened and threatened. People who know why are simply scared ->-bleeped-<-less. Because it's real bad, and it's real deep, and it's far past it's tipping point and is now seriously out of balance. And nature, the very universe itself, does not seem to like out of balance things, they seem to prefer balance, but the only way sometimes to gain balance back is to let it spin out of control and expend its' momentum in that way. And no one wants to see that. I promise you.
Everywhere I look I see police looking not like police, but like para-military units deployed on domestic soil. But you can't blame them too much, after all two of those countries had their governments fall as a result of those protests. So the stakes are high. Now Syria shot it's demonstrators (special bonus points for doing with attack aircraft, soon our cops will want F-16s too), so did lots of other places, you just didn't hear about it. In Davis, California they only soaked them in pepper spray.
That' the response of the government to something that is EXACTLY the kind of protest the 1st Amendment specifically protects.
That's bad too. I mean its' pretty obvious that the people of the US have been looking to the government to do something, but not much happens. We should be having an election based on these issues one would think, it being an election year and all. But no. One party pretty much has run out of ideas, "no" seems to be the only thing it can say, and it allowed it's Presidential Nomination Process degenerate into a moron rodeo where a bunch of people who had absolutely zero intention of ever being President of the US 'ran' kind of as a book tour, kind of as a reality show, and kind of as an audition of Fox News.
It's pathetic really. They are not even trying. Pizza makers? Washed up congressmen who resigned in disgrace? A frothy one term senator who couldn't win re-election? A couple of bat-->-bleeped-<- crazy congresspeople from weird districts? Donald Trump? You're ->-bleeped-<-ing ->-bleeped-<-ting me Donald Trump!? But, but...he's nothing but a financial gangster. He somehow went 'broke' running a casino (twice!) - how in the hell do you do that? He's 'popular' (celebrity is a better word) because he's the closest thing we got to a Mafia Don going on anymore. Oh yeah, and a guy determined to prove that by Texas political standards George Bush #43 is indeed a gifted intellectual.
So they are going to nominate Mitt. The one person guaranteed to ensure a rebellion and boycott by the base (in USA who doesn't vote is just as important as who does - most people don't vote for the other party when they are mad at theirs, they sit it out) who regard him as a RINO (Republican In Name Only, cute eh?) and a Mormon to boot. So...back of the pack, and more of the same.
And, not that we laugh (and we do) at the American political system, for lots of other political systems around the world seem to be pretty dysfunctional all on their own. Matter of fact it's hard to find a single government anywhere that's really managing well. The over-reaction to domestic protests is part and parcel of that.
And, as generally increasing standards of living and economic expansion cover up a lot of age-old, but deeply held, bad-ideas, a declining economy brings those things out in a much starker contrast. Racism. Class conflict. Sexism. Casual brutality. Authoritarian levels of control. And knowing that (as an American) that there are number of people who deeply and sincerely believe that we ought to tear into the Occupy crowds with bullets and bayonets, and knowing that (as a historian) such levels of violent suppression are not exactly unknown in other times and places, I have to believe that statements about use of extreme levels of violence are sincere and true. And dangerous. And inflammatory.
Kia Ora,
::) For some people London's always a riot[in a fun entertainment kind of way]... ;) ;D
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: tekla on December 28, 2011, 12:26:33 PM
In the past year we've had London. Athens. New York (on Wall Street even). Cairo. Libya. Moscow. Albania. Syria. Spain. ...and the beat goes on...
In all, 24 countries (big ones, 'stable' ones) had civil protests last year over domestic policies, many ended in riots. (and when asking who causes a riot, ask which side came dressed for one) On October 15, people in 950 different cities in different 82 countries had protests to support "Occupy" and the Spanish movement, many ended with arrests and police actions.
People from all over, from all walks of life, from all kinds of backgrounds and political orientations seem to be doing the Howard Beale and going to the window and yelling: "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore." That's how it starts. It does not have to be focused, or specific, or based on universally supported notions/grievances. All it has to do is be a vague but steady discontent. Issues will form around the anger, and they are beginning...
There is increasing agreement that:
-the basic structure of the financial system is out of whack, and if not exactly in free-fall yet (though in some areas it seems to be), it's definitively reeling like a drunken sailor, it's out of it's own control, and seemingly out of human/governmental/financial and systematic control - all at the same time.
-governments are not exactly responding to problems, and in many cases (see: U.S. Congress for perhaps the best example) appear to be totally broken and non-functional. Government spending is at an all time high (everywhere), yet the more money that is poured out, the more diminished the returns.
-corporations (and not just in the US, but world-wide) have far too much power (and far too much access to the power they don't directly have), far too much control over the money and resources, and zero responsibility beyond making more money, and as a result have become a distinct liability and a serious impediment to basic change, much less real progress.
-there is a basic inequality in the system larger than people are willing to accept, and seemingly larger than the system itself can handle. It's a basic inequality that threatens the stability and sustainability of the most fundamental social structures (the ones that stand between us and anarchy, and it's not all that much), and, as a result, even people who don't know exactly why, feel frightened and threatened. People who know why are simply scared ->-bleeped-<-less. Because it's real bad, and it's real deep, and it's far past it's tipping point and is now seriously out of balance. And nature, the very universe itself, does not seem to like out of balance things, they seem to prefer balance, but the only way sometimes to gain balance back is to let it spin out of control and expend its' momentum in that way. And no one wants to see that. I promise you.
Everywhere I look I see police looking not like police, but like para-military units deployed on domestic soil. But you can't blame them too much, after all two of those countries had their governments fall as a result of those protests. So the stakes are high. Now Syria shot it's demonstrators (special bonus points for doing with attack aircraft, soon our cops will want F-16s too), so did lots of other places, you just didn't hear about it. In Davis, California they only soaked them in pepper spray.
That' the response of the government to something that is EXACTLY the kind of protest the 1st Amendment specifically protects.
That's bad too. I mean its' pretty obvious that the people of the US have been looking to the government to do something, but not much happens. We should be having an election based on these issues one would think, it being an election year and all. But no. One party pretty much has run out of ideas, "no" seems to be the only thing it can say, and it allowed it's Presidential Nomination Process degenerate into a moron rodeo where a bunch of people who had absolutely zero intention of ever being President of the US 'ran' kind of as a book tour, kind of as a reality show, and kind of as an audition of Fox News.
It's pathetic really. They are not even trying. Pizza makers? Washed up congressmen who resigned in disgrace? A frothy one term senator who couldn't win re-election? A couple of bat-->-bleeped-<- crazy congresspeople from weird districts? Donald Trump? You're ->-bleeped-<-ing ->-bleeped-<-ting me Donald Trump!? But, but...he's nothing but a financial gangster. He somehow went 'broke' running a casino (twice!) - how in the hell do you do that? He's 'popular' (celebrity is a better word) because he's the closest thing we got to a Mafia Don going on anymore. Oh yeah, and a guy determined to prove that by Texas political standards George Bush #43 is indeed a gifted intellectual.
So they are going to nominate Mitt. The one person guaranteed to ensure a rebellion and boycott by the base (in USA who doesn't vote is just as important as who does - most people don't vote for the other party when they are mad at theirs, they sit it out) who regard him as a RINO (Republican In Name Only, cute eh?) and a Mormon to boot. So...back of the pack, and more of the same.
And, not that we laugh (and we do) at the American political system, for lots of other political systems around the world seem to be pretty dysfunctional all on their own. Matter of fact it's hard to find a single government anywhere that's really managing well. The over-reaction to domestic protests is part and parcel of that.
And, as generally increasing standards of living and economic expansion cover up a lot of age-old, but deeply held, bad-ideas, a declining economy brings those things out in a much starker contrast. Racism. Class conflict. Sexism. Casual brutality. Authoritarian levels of control. And knowing that (as an American) that there are number of people who deeply and sincerely believe that we ought to tear into the Occupy crowds with bullets and bayonets, and knowing that (as a historian) such levels of violent suppression are not exactly unknown in other times and places, I have to believe that statements about use of extreme levels of violence are sincere and true. And dangerous. And inflammatory.
The London riots were not part of the 1% protests. To suggest such a thing is deceitful.