A common concern among us is "How do we know we are transsexual?" There are some who never question it but I've seen the question asked enough to know there are many who want definitive proof they are TS.
Having lived in deep denial for decades, I can appreciate this concern. Transitioning is nothing to be taken lightly and I have read a few accounts of people who began their transition only to return to their old life, sometimes after a year of more being full time. One MTF had SRS, lived successfully as a woman then had surgery to reverse everything possible to return to male life.
The thought of making a mistake can be scary.
Then there's the pressure we get from family and friends. Most of us have to stand alone in that arena, finding it hard to get support with our desire to transition.
So how do we really know without going through the entire process and living the life that this is the right decision?
I listen to some friends talk of their feelings and watch them in their mannerisms and actions and there's no question they are TS. But I'm not like any of them. Deep in my soul I want to live the rest of my life as a woman but I know it will be a lifelong job, a lot of work. It's a lot of work because I've lived so long as a man and I have so many learned habits to break. If I chose to remain a man it would be a breeze to pass as one but I'd be miserable inside. So I know I must continue on my chosen path.
One of the things that has me thinking is the vibes I get from the trans friends I have now. I call them all friends even though by definition most aren't. When we are together we are all polite and social but there are telltale signs I am not accepted by many of them. And that wall seemed to go up as soon as I said I wasn't interested in men.
So is that one of the validations? You have to be sexually attracted to the opposite sex? Many seem to think so.
Another validation I lack is being feminine. I am somewhat feminine but not to a high degree and I won't fake it. I can be somewhat of a tomboy at times even though I like to look feminine. Of course this can be construed as meaning I'm not transsexual but rather TG or CD. But when I look at my sisters, none of them is ultra feminine in their actions. They like to look feminine but they certainly aren't girly girls.
Something else that I see in others is their intense need to race through their transition because they HATE the life they are living. I don't hate my life and I don't hate my male body. I am bothered by it and it can cause me a lot of anxiety and depression, but I don't hate it. Again, is this another validation? I found some solace in reading that Donna Rose feels much the same as me and she seems perfectly happy having transitioned but she is the exception rather than the rule.
I know I talk about thinking vs. being. And I live the majority of my life in being. When I do I'm happiest. But thinking does creep in once in a while and gets me wondering. What if? What if maybe I could be making a mistake?
And I think about my kids, how they would accept me again if I would just be the dad they want. It might take some time but I feel they would come around more easily that way than if I stayed on my present path. And work? The problems I have with work would be gone.
Still, whenever I try to picture myself going back a dark cloud comes over me. I am so intensely happy right now and when I look past SRS and possibly FFS I see that happiness increasing. As a man, I was headed in the other direction.
Maybe that's the only validation one needs.
Julie
At least here liking girls sexually seems quite common amongst younger mtf transpeople.
Is it really important to validate ourselves against labels? That makes it quite hard to get to the final truth.
I think the real question should be "Can I live without transitioning? Are all the alternatives worse?" If the answer is that transitioning is the best way then finding the exact label does not seem so important to me.
Interesting word Julie,
Some times it is hard to validate, Im fortunate, I dont do that to myself but I know my friends and family will. I just have to wait and see. Im positive transition would be good for me but I have others to consider aswell
Ironic, I've been pondering the same thing lately.
There's a girl on here I chat with a lot who is struggling to answer this question, and I just had to laugh when she questioned her own femaleness... it's just that she's SO much more feminine that I am, it just seemed a ridiculous worry. I look around forum and how most M2Fs just exude this natural femininity, it just seems to come so easy and natural for many. It makes me SO jealous, but... I am what I am. And nothing short of an asteroid collision will stop me from transitioining. And even then, don't count me out, lol...
But Julie, you're ONE of those "naturally feminine" people I envy. To hear you question it just sounds so silly, though I understand we're all often our own worst critics.
Still, some habits do take time to unlearn. We were socialized as males, so we're bound to respond within that framework for awhile as we adjust to our new roles and place in society.
As for knowing if we're TS and if transition is right... I can only answer for myself. And to be honest, I don't really know HOW I know it's what I'm supposed to do, but I do. It just FEELS right. You know when you're on the right path, though I'd suggest that if someone needs "reasons" to support where they're heading, the danger becomes that those reasons may be proven wrong someday. THEN what?
For me, this IS an act of faith, and in the deepest way. There's this Truth that I know - but I can't prove it to you or even to myself - and yet I'm willing to risk EVERYTHING to LIVE that truth, not just know it. That leap of faith, that roll of the dice, surrendering to my fate and willingly allowing myself to become vulnerable to that path is, ironically, what gives me strength.
Kate
Quote from: Kate on February 19, 2007, 10:07:28 AM
Still, some habits do take time to unlearn. We were socialized as males, so we're bound to respond within that framework for awhile as we adjust to our new roles and place in society.
Kate
You touched on something Kate I hadn't considered. While I was totally full time I was becoming very comfortable in my new life. I had no doubts. Then I went back to work. Even though I carried with me many female markers, it wasn't enough to overcome working in such a male dominated field. Eventually I started becoming re-programmed, and I didn't see it happening.
I'm off work again, for how long I don't know, but I'll pay attention to how this affects me. If I see myself once again dropping the male habits, I'll know what is truly natural for me. And I'll be more aware of it when I return to work. Another social experiment!
Julie
Somewhere I read that the easiest person to fool is oneself. I have to keep that in mind, and keep myself moving slowly, and to keep asking for feedback. I have gone on wild-goose chases before! I have to keep questioning myself, keeping myself honest. Not sure that will prevent any but the most obvious of errors, though!
Quote from: Tara on February 19, 2007, 12:19:05 PM
Somewhere I read that the easiest person to fool is oneself.
Only because we try to FIND the truth rather than CREATE and LIVE it.
We look and search and calculate and reason and compare and gather evidence... always looking for a way to avoid responsibility for our beliefs, for ACTING on what we know.
I'm just ancient enough to know that The Truth is totally malleable... I've "known" for sure so many things in my life which I eventually tired of and found NEW things to "know for sure" that beliefs and truth are playthings for me now. I don't believe things because they're true or factual, I believe them because they work for me, are beautiful, and make this dream I'm having a more fun and loving place to play in.
Am I fooling myself? You BET I am! But in the bestest of ways, as an ART form - willingly, with love, and with heart.
Kate
Quote from: Kate on February 19, 2007, 10:07:28 AM
I look around forum and how most M2Fs just exude this natural femininity, it just seems to come so easy and natural for many. It makes me SO jealous, but... I am what I am.
Kate, you ARE one of those people. :eusa_doh:
Melissa
Kate, you are so incredibly beautiful!
My personable issues with what you say are that I have lied to myself for so long, beaten my truth within a millimeter of it's/my life, that I am leery of ANY idea or path. I will have to go slowly. I do understand what you say, and envy your confidence in yourself. And agree with your assessment of truth. Beliefs, I have abandoned.
It is a blessing to read your thoughts.
Julie;
I like to think we're kind of like cooking with tofu, in that we to various degrees take on the flavour of the environment we find ourselves in. So when you go into that hyper-male world, of course you're going to take on a male flavor. And so would a GG who enjoyed the work enough that she'd put up with the rations of **** she'd get from macho coworkers.
Of course, for you there's a danger of being perceived of as both male and effeminate. Girls, cripples and people wearing glasses are afforded societal protections, while effeminate males are self-selected targets to alpha-males. Of course you're going to 'hide' behind your created male persona.
My therapist has said that I will finish becoming Karen when I give up the care and feeding of #**** for good. He also says that with many of his clients he never knows who will walk in his door -- the man or the woman. And he's also seen clients change during sessions because after the session, 'the guy' had to be somewhere and do something.
Which tells me this is natural and a part of transitioning. I will have times I can choose to be either. I want to always choose to be Karen, but some times the guy will come out, and afterward I will kick myself and promise to not do that again in a similar situation.
But I only allow myself one kick -- actually I visualize how I would have liked to behave.
Julie, don't beat yourself up over 'lapses'. Work at it, and they'll diminish over time.
Karen
Interesting that my brother and I had a...discussion on this yesterday.
In his opinion, he has no doubt that I beleave that this is real. The fact i've put up with it for as long as I have shows that i'm serious about it. However he wonders what would happen if I waited longer to do more therapy and put tis off till i've thought it out more. One of the things he says is that I am changing my body so that in a materialistic world I can fit myself on the outside to comfort the inside, but what I should do is to change the inside to accept the outside. Maybe some of you are smarter than me, but I had a difficult time arguing against that viewpoint, but it is the viewpoint of most of my family.
I'm not femme, no desire for it either. I want to get in the thick of things and get the adrinaline pumping. The only thing that would really change about me would be my body and how I relate to people. A real tomboy if you will. But my main argument to my family isn't that I can't be a guy, but that it feels forced. One of the things I asked my brother was when he was growing up did he have to constently judge what would be the girl thing or the guy thing to do. Did he feel unconfterble in an intimate situation of anykind, or even just feel 'wrong' half the time. Not because he was ugly or unhappy about his body, but at the same time it feels wrong, incorrect.
In the end I asked him one final question, when he told me that nothing I had said had affected his opinion that this is the wrong course of action, I asked him to come from the other side and tell me what I would have to be saying to convince him. He thought for a moment and responded that nothing I could say would affect his decision.
Kate is right, its a leap of faith. But I think if you are serious enough to at the very least deal with the laser, and the human element, then perhaps you need to worry alittle less. My faith, my life, is based on my God, I don't think he would show me to so many supportive people if he was truly against what i'm doing.
Quote from: Elissa on February 19, 2007, 03:54:00 PM
In his opinion, he has no doubt that I beleave that this is real.
As soon as I read that I knew he didn't believe you.
Quote from: Elissa on February 19, 2007, 03:54:00 PM
One of the things he says is that I am changing my body so that in a materialistic world I can fit myself on the outside to comfort the inside, but what I should do is to change the inside to accept the outside. Maybe some of you are smarter than me, but I had a difficult time arguing against that viewpoint, but it is the viewpoint of most of my family.
Yet he is unwilling to change how he feels inside to accept how you look outside. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.
Melissa
"Validation"
As in achieving certitude or validity of the concept--?
That process for me, which I finally can say is permanently resolved [NO going back to the former detested state], induced yet another element of searing agony in the course of transition.
No doubts exist. Not anymore.
The EMPIRICAL and manifest evidence both of who I really am and of the NECESSITY to achieve FULL transition, is irrefutable and cannot be ignored.
"Deep denial for decades"
Not so, here. Since the proverbial "Day One", I knew that SOMETHING related to sexuality [but in reality, it was a GENDER issue] was deeply flawed, but I did not have a clue as to what it was.
I was relentlessly driven to do certain things, to function sexually in a certain way--but I had no idea as to why this was.
It was a living hell.
And knowing that, knowing the VAST GLOBAL improvements that were the direct result of transition and HRT, knowing how comfortable, natural and JOYFUL that I feel now,
How could I POSSIBLY revert or allow myself to be deterred from attaining the true??
Forced in a choice between reverting to a male role and death...I think that you know which would be chosen.
"Femininity"
By my writing style, perhaps nobody would even suspect it, but the feminine expression and speech to a lesser degree, require little effort for me in private or public.
In fact, as it was with trying to maintain an acceptable male presentation, it is now in trying to repress the natural feminine.
It's comfortable and feels natural. I'm continuously refining these, but the basic 'feminine instinctive movements and mannerisms" were always present.
Still, I'll wind up being something of odd homogeny of predominantly feminine characteristics and traits, with an admixture of decidedly masculine elements.
I'm saying this NOW, but as I have observed so many times during the course of transition these remnant masculine elements very possibly may reach points where they simply become intolerable to live with and ultimately are 'shed' or greatly modified.
"Disinhibition"
I am NOT going 'back'. The very concept is utterly abhorrent.
It would kill me.
"Sexuality"
I definitely and exclusively LOVE men. But I am not at all keen on the idea of using 'sexual preference' as a DETERMINANT as to who is TS and who is really just a poseur.
That constitutes a 'false balance' in my view and I won't accept nor utilize such a a standard.
It seems analogous to the ego centered 'caste system mentality' that some TS folks erect to differentiate and distance themselves from other TS folks whom they PERCEIVE to be inferior to themselves.
Welcome to humanity.
But IMHO, these dichotomies are purely artificial and find their ultimate etiologies in subjective human pettiness.
Welcome to humanity.
It seems to be a product largely of deficient self-esteem, self aggrandizement, small-mindedness and a lack of love.
The external validation doesn't concern me. It never really has.
I gave up trying to use such as a 'feedback mechanism' MANY years ago.
Over-reliance upon such, can be very dangerous.
"Racing"
I have a good life, no doubt about it and I have been blessed richly.
That isn't the issue with me, that which has been and is driving me mercilessly toward completion.
No, with me, it is a race to avoid more psychic pain or much worse.
It's purely a function of intense GID pressure and stress.
And I DO detest my male body. The sordid and gory history solidly attests to this.
But does my level of GID mean in my little mind that those who have GID to a lesser degree than I are not TS?
I think not.
There is NO going back for me, my good sister. I would rather die.
Rhonda
Julie....
S T A M P
There's your official stamp of validation. ;)
You're doing fine.
Cindi
Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 19, 2007, 07:12:06 PM
Julie....
S T A M P
There's your official stamp of validation. ;)
You're doing fine.
Cindi
Awww, Surly it is not that easy.
Alice
Quote from: Kate on February 19, 2007, 10:07:28 AM
As for knowing if we're TS and if transition is right... I can only answer for myself. And to be honest, I don't really know HOW I know it's what I'm supposed to do, but I do. It just FEELS right. You know when you're on the right path, though I'd suggest that if someone needs "reasons" to support where they're heading, the danger becomes that those reasons may be proven wrong someday. THEN what?
For me, this IS an act of faith, and in the deepest way. There's this Truth that I know - but I can't prove it to you or even to myself - and yet I'm willing to risk EVERYTHING to LIVE that truth, not just know it. That leap of faith, that roll of the dice, surrendering to my fate and willingly allowing myself to become vulnerable to that path is, ironically, what gives me strength.
Beautifully stated!
Julie, you are listening to that pesky little ego again, aren't you? Listen to your heart, it will never lie to you.
Kelly
validation? how about this link for [validation]?
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=transsexual
Quote from: Alice on February 19, 2007, 07:54:18 PM
Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 19, 2007, 07:12:06 PM
Julie....
S T A M P
There's your official stamp of validation. ;)
You're doing fine.
Cindi
Awww, Surly it is not that easy.
Alice
But it can be. Life is what you make out of it. Why do we make things more complicated than they need to be? Our lives are already pretty messed up as it is. Shouldn't we just make a simple decision and stick with it until we find something better? Why not?
Cindi
(shaking her head, trying to clear)
I pulled up that link and read the article...and while I read it I realized that I was...engaged in my now standard 'comfort reaction' of massaging a breast.
High emotional stress, brought on by...remembrance...knowledge and understanding of who I am and the 'why' behind my history.
I have a copy of "True Selves" and I have read it approximately 1.4 times...I've 'hi-lighted' so many pages in that book that it is almost completely fluorescent yellow now.
I stay away from it now; I couldn't finish the second reading of it.
It um.............evokes too much and too many, now.
Just as that link just did.My mind seems to be now 'locked back on' to this general subject for the moment...
"Validation"
My LORD....in May of 2005, I was pretty much emotionally dead, beaten to proverbial submission...
I tried everything that I could think of over the horrid years, to remediate an unknown, merciless demon in my mind.....
The last thing that I tried was sex, with men of course...MANY men,
High risk, unprotected...but after a while, while I loved it I realized that it was ineffective at silencing the the demon which permanently resided in my mind,
And would not by repressed nor silenced by ANYTHING tried.
So I sat down in my LazyGIRL (sorry for the 'militance', but I think that you understand), emotionally spent and leaving my intellect relatively free to coldly analyze and assess--life and history....
And strangely enough perhaps, the probable future which at that point somehow I intuitively knew would only unfold in ever increasing pain and agony, with no apparent hope of resolution....
Later on I learned that GID does indeed, worsen with age.
It has been said that one cannot arrive at a decicion to self-destruct on an exclusively, coldly rational basis, but that isn't true...
I did, on that day in May of 2005.
I sat there for a half hour or so, coldly analyzing and prognosticating and at the conclusion of this 'exercise in rational problem solving'??
"Nothing has worked; nothing apparently will. It is finally time to die."
But on that very same day, EVERYTHING became manifest, EVERYTHING became known and understood.
And life and healing began and continue to this day.
THAT is where I came from, utter failure at trying to maintain and sustain a diametrically opposite presentation and facade; I couldn't do it anymore.
THIS is what I would be returning to, if I de-transitioned--but that would only last for but a brief moment, before a 9mm hollowpoint would finally end it all.Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 19, 2007, 07:12:06 PM
Julie....
S T A M P
There's your official stamp of validation. ;)
You're doing fine.
Cindi
You know something, Cindi?
I am really beginning to like you it is indeed foreseeable that eventually, I may grow to LOVE you as a valued sister and friend.
As Cindi mentioned in her reply - Yes it can be that simple. There is no yard stick to measure yourself against, just as there is no yard stick to determine who is a man and who is a woman. Each and everyone has different trait's and to try and gauge yourself against them is folly. You may well want to start a topic entitled "So what makes a Transsexual" and see the great variety of answers you would get. Just because one person looks or acts more feminine doesn't mean they are more TS as that is impossible. It's whats between "YOUR" ears that matters, and what/drives causes the TS to be.
Sometimes it seems just as many find it hard to admit they are TS it's just as hard for some to admit they are not.
Steph
Interestingly I broke before it became unbearable. A few scant weeks away from my 30th birthday I sat on my bad and marveled that I made if half way, that I was half dead and could stop this before long. ... and then I realized I would probably not die at 60, and depression returned. *shrug* I think for the majority of us it takes climbing to the top of the proverbial rope and finally slipping and falling back. So close, yet so far. An good bloody riddance.
*shrug*
Cindy is exactly right, I think.
We already know what we are. It is integral and relentless, as we all already know.
Trust yourself. I know for certain society in general and humanity in particular is blind to so so many things. No one knows you like yourself. TRUST yourself. Your validation papers are already stamped, you need but look.
QuoteIt's whats between "YOUR" ears that matters, and what/drives causes the TS to be.
Sometimes it seems just as many find it hard to admit they are TS it's just as hard for some to admit they are not.
Yes Steph, that's the truth! Whether one is or isn't TS, either way it takes a significant amount of soul searching to discover the answer. I first awoke to an understanding of myself as transgendered in 1993, with various not so subtle hints before that :), and I'm still in an ever unfolding process of discovery and figuring out where I live in this glorious gender continuum.
zythyra
Quote from: zythyra on February 20, 2007, 06:46:33 AM
Yes Steph, that's the truth! Whether one is or isn't TS, either way it takes a significant amount of soul searching to discover the answer. I first awoke to an understanding of myself as transgendered in 1993, with various not so subtle hints before that :), and I'm still in an ever unfolding process of discovery and figuring out where I live in this glorious gender continuum.
zythyra
I agree, Zythyra!
I wonder why we see so much of the "all or nothing" on here. Where is the TS line drawn? And who gets to make that decision? I'm glad to walk with a fellow traveler on this road to discovery. And how much of what we are, and what we will eventually be, is determined by circumstances beyond our own control? Some argue that if one is really TS s/he will transition at all costs. But I know of those who just can't because of issues such as finances, family, illness, and other relational circumstances. Who are we to judge? These can be the most painful of all, when transition is not seen as an option. I hope that we will always choose the path of supporting all of those who walk this lonely road.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Quote from: Kristi on February 20, 2007, 07:08:18 AM
I wonder why we see so much of the "all or nothing" on here. Where is the TS line drawn? And who gets to make that decision? I'm glad to walk with a fellow traveler on this road to discovery. And how much of what we are, and what we will eventually be, is determined by circumstances beyond our own control? Some argue that if one is really TS s/he will transition at all costs. But I know of those who just can't because of issues such as finances, family, illness, and other relational circumstances. Who are we to judge? These can be the most painful of all, when transition is not seen as an option. I hope that we will always choose the path of supporting all of those who walk this lonely road.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Kirsty
I am one of those people you talk about, I consider myself TS but undiagnosed. I cant decide which path to follow. Should I not transition and live with my wife until the day I die, I know will lead to magor depression and theropy sessions. Or should I let my self be the woman and transition. This path is just as harm full to a persons well being, self confidence and of course finances. If I choose to do this I loose every thing and every one I ever loved.
My point is I dont need some doctor to tell me what I allreadry know, I am what I am but what I decide to do for health reasons is a choice I have to make, a very hard choice and it wont be an easy on.
Lucy Just Lucy
xxx xxx xxx xxx
A good question to ask yourself is "When I am in my last days and death is upon me, will I wish I would have transitioned or will I be glad I had not?"
Melissa
Not a fair question, Yes im sure that all TS people wish that they had transitioned but it is unrealistic and again funfair to assume that we all could do it. If I decide to stand by my obligations as a husband and forgo the possibility of being the true person I am thats my choice.
I only wish and hope I can join you all on this path but it just may not be possible
sorry for getting upset
LUCY
Quote from: Lucy on February 20, 2007, 12:30:33 PM
Not a fair question, Yes im sure that all TS people wish that they had transitioned but it is unrealistic and again funfair to assume that we all could do it. If I decide to stand by my obligations as a husband and forgo the possibility of being the true person I am thats my choice.
It's a fair question but put it in the full context of your life. At the end of your life will you wish you had transitioned or be glad you didn't and stood by your obligations.
Transition isn't an isolated decision now or at the end of your life. Just as you are making the decision now whether or not to transition in the full context of your life, when looking at the decision from the perspective of life's end compare the choice to all the options you had in your life.
Quote from: Nikki_W on February 20, 2007, 01:15:49 PM
Transition isn't an isolated decision now or at the end of your life.
Precisely my point. The level of one's own happiness is something all of us put more or less value on. And there are pros and cons no matter which way this is argued. I would simply say that it an intensely personal choice that will affect many lives all around us. Some of us would rather die than live with the consequences of transitioning. And some of us would rather transition than die, and that ends up being the choice. Then there are some who are (I believe) truly TS who are able to make it work by doing so part-time, fully knowing the consequences it will have on his/her life.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Quote from: Lucy on February 20, 2007, 12:30:33 PM
If I decide to stand by my obligations as a husband and forgo the possibility of being the true person I am thats my choice.
If you truly feel that's a viable option, then it might be right for you. I know that option was no longer available for me once I had figured out what was wrong. It was more of a matter of hoping I could transition before I chose suicide. My life in general IS better than it was previously already, but I think that was due to embracing transition rather than resisting it. If you feel you could be happy living as male, I can tell you THAT option will be SO much easier. Transition takes it's toll on your soul and you either will be completely torn apart or you will grow stronger than you ever thought possible.
Melissa
Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 20, 2007, 04:26:27 AM
Quote from: Alice on February 19, 2007, 07:54:18 PM
Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 19, 2007, 07:12:06 PM
Julie....
S T A M P
There's your official stamp of validation. ;)
You're doing fine.
Cindi
Awww, Surly it is not that easy.
Alice
But it can be. Life is what you make out of it. Why do we make things more complicated than they need to be? Our lives are already pretty messed up as it is. Shouldn't we just make a simple decision and stick with it until we find something better? Why not?
Cindi
I have spent 36 years building up a life and getting comfortable with everything except my feminine side. I am not going to throw it away that easiy - just because I like to wear skirts. I need to ensure I am feminine enough before I transistion.
Alice
Quote from: Nikki_W on February 20, 2007, 01:15:49 PM
Transition isn't an isolated decision...
Given enough time, it usually becomes one. One by one, the
"I can't do this because..." protests become consumed by the GID until there's just nothing else, nowhere else to go.
Kate
Quote from: Kate on February 20, 2007, 02:51:53 PM
Quote from: Nikki_W on February 20, 2007, 01:15:49 PM
Transition isn't an isolated decision...
Given enough time, it usually becomes one. One by one, the "I can't do this because..." protests become consumed by the GID until there's just nothing else, nowhere else to go.
Kate
My life cae to a compleate standstill recently and I didnt know where to go, the GID took over and my head was willed with this stuff, through your help ive been able to surpess it move on for another day, I hope I can stand by my obligations. You are right where you say the GID gets stronger, Ive allready noticed that, I dont think I could cope if it got worst. Transition may be the only way. If I have tyo I hope I do it sooner rather than later.
You know what I mean.
lucy
Quote from: Lucy on February 20, 2007, 03:53:52 PM
My life cae to a compleate standstill recently and I didnt know where to go, the GID took over and my head was willed with this stuff, through your help ive been able to surpess it move on for another day, I hope I can stand by my obligations. You are right where you say the GID gets stronger, Ive allready noticed that, I dont think I could cope if it got worst. Transition may be the only way. If I have tyo I hope I do it sooner rather than later.
You know what I mean.
Sounds like me except it mine was was too intense to supress.
Melissa
Quote from: Kate on February 20, 2007, 02:51:53 PM
Quote from: Nikki_W on February 20, 2007, 01:15:49 PM
Transition isn't an isolated decision...
Given enough time, it usually becomes one. One by one, the "I can't do this because..." protests become consumed by the GID until there's just nothing else, nowhere else to go.
That doesn't make it an isolated decision just one that with time you value more compared to the alternatives. I won't get into economics but even at the transition or die choice the other alternatives still exist and the decision to transition still affects them all. Just at that point you value transition so much the only other option that gives even near as many utils(sorry) is death.
Quote from: Melissa on February 20, 2007, 11:38:00 AM
A good question to ask yourself is "When I am in my last days and death is upon me, will I wish I would have transitioned or will I be glad I had not?"
Melissa
*snicker*For me I would have been quite happy to have
NOT. As it happens that has nothing to do with being a girl or not.
*shrug*
Death is not an easy option. The body and brain has a strong will to live. Many have tried and failed. (Not like I've looked into it or anything. ::)) What it comes down to is that transition becomes the only choice that is viable.
Melissa
Quote from: Melissa on February 20, 2007, 04:26:16 PM
Death is not an easy option. The body and brain has a strong will to live. Many have tried and failed. (Not like I've looked into it or anything. ::)) What it comes down to is that transition becomes the only choice that is viable.
Melissa
Maybe not but so many TS youngpeople still decide that is is the easier option, why. Because of the world we live in, a world without care and consideration for our fellow human kind. If only it was easier and friendly out there, life wouldn't be so hard and people would look after them selves.
Quote from: Melissa on February 20, 2007, 04:26:16 PM
Death is not an easy option.
...
For me, it is.
Quote from: Melissa on February 20, 2007, 04:26:16 PM...
What it comes down to is that transition becomes the only choice that is viable.
Melissa
This is true, but it does not change that I would both have been happy to NOT do this, and that I do NOT want to do this (and again want to not do this even less).
*shrug**shrug* Oh well.
We manage as best we are able.
*shrug* Of course, I do wonder if this was not planed from the get-go and what I was doing was a purposeful illusion but, heh, such topics belong in the spirituality forum ;)
Quote from: Kimberly on February 20, 2007, 04:40:08 PM
Quote from: Melissa on February 20, 2007, 04:26:16 PM
Death is not an easy option.
...
For me, it is.
Then why are you still alive? It's easy to choose, but difficult to follow.
Melissa
There are always options. There's always another path. I admire someone who picks one based on the best information available to them and begins their journey. You need to chose to live your life. I've seen so many who sit on the fence and watch all the others walk on by.
I'm not encouraging anyone to transition. I would never push anyone down that road. But, there are always options. I know that it can seem impossible to give up so much to chase a dream that is seemingly so destructive. Some of us are driven to do it and I can't explain why.
So if you do not what to drive there - how do you go the other way as fast as possible? What plan can I out in place so that in say 12 months all there feelings leave me - I am a happy Male - and I no longer need the invaluable support of this site.
Alice
PS Gee - I am ranting a lot today - I guess I am not coping :'(. Sorry everyone - I know you are so valuable to me at this point in time. coming out of denile is just so hard.
Quote from: Alice on February 20, 2007, 05:35:44 PM
I am a happy Male
[...]
I guess I am not coping :'(
Hmm :eusa_think:
Melissa
sometimes, Alice, it is good to just let feelings, urges, etc, just rest. Let it be for a while. Take quiet time. Let the desperation pass. It becomes clearer. You are calmer. No hurry today, friend. Sit. Have some tea. Do something relaxing. Be good to yourself. No self-flogging for you today. Just let it be for a while.
Blessings, Tara
I have to ask why is there a need for validation? It's as if folks are waiting for someone to tell them that hey you're TS, it ain't going to happen.
It's like the young girl asking her mom "How will I know I'm in love?" and more often than not mom will say "When you have this uncontrollable urge/feeling inside to be with this person, and your heart will ache during those times you are separated, and soar when you are together".
Steph
Quote from: Steph on February 20, 2007, 06:12:36 PM
It's like the young girl asking her mom "How will I know I'm in love?" and more often than not mom will say "When you have this uncontrollable urge/feeling inside to be with this person, and your heart will ache during those times you are separated, and soar when you are together".
That's more definitive than the answer I was given. I was told "you'll just know when you meet the right person". Well, I knew (or felt I did) when I met my wife, but now we're getting divorced. It's just not that simple. It really is a leap of faith.
Melissa
Quote from: Melissa on February 20, 2007, 06:21:59 PM
Quote from: Steph on February 20, 2007, 06:12:36 PM
It's like the young girl asking her mom "How will I know I'm in love?" and more often than not mom will say "When you have this uncontrollable urge/feeling inside to be with this person, and your heart will ache during those times you are separated, and soar when you are together".
That's more definitive than the answer I was given. I was told "you'll just know when you meet the right person". Well, I knew (or felt I did) when I met my wife, but now we're getting divorced. It's just not that simple. It really is a leap of faith.
Melissa
But then as you said "
felt I did", I would have to say that may be she wasn't the right one MEW. But I'm veering off topic.
Steph
OK- I know I am not coping today. Just had a big rant to my boss that the whole office heard.
Quote from: Steph on February 20, 2007, 06:12:36 PM
I have to ask why is there a need for validation? It's as if folks are waiting for someone to tell them that hey you're TS, it ain't going to happen.
It's like the young girl asking her mom "How will I know I'm in love?" and more often than not mom will say "When you have this uncontrollable urge/feeling inside to be with this person, and your heart will ache during those times you are separated, and soar when you are together".
Steph
Because I am not changing without some more validation. If no one is going to say I am TS I will have to wait for my next breakdown which feels as if it it very close now.
:'(
Alice
Quote from: Alice on February 20, 2007, 06:50:40 PM
OK- I know I am not coping today. Just had a big rant to my boss that the whole office heard.
Quote from: Steph on February 20, 2007, 06:12:36 PM
I have to ask why is there a need for validation? It's as if folks are waiting for someone to tell them that hey you're TS, it ain't going to happen.
It's like the young girl asking her mom "How will I know I'm in love?" and more often than not mom will say "When you have this uncontrollable urge/feeling inside to be with this person, and your heart will ache during those times you are separated, and soar when you are together".
Steph
Because I am not changing without some more validation. If no one is going to say I am TS I will have to wait for my next breakdown which feels as if it it very close now.
:'(
Alice
Alice you can't change to become TS you either are or you're not.
Steph
Quote from: Melissa on February 20, 2007, 04:53:21 PM
Quote from: Kimberly on February 20, 2007, 04:40:08 PM
Quote from: Melissa on February 20, 2007, 04:26:16 PM
Death is not an easy option.
...
For me, it is.
Then why are you still alive? It's easy to choose, but difficult to follow.
Melissa
Two people in my life mean more to me than life itself. I am alive in the first place for them. I am alive still for them.
*shrug*
I do not view life 'normally'.
Quote from: Steph on February 20, 2007, 07:08:04 PM...
Alice you can't change to become TS you either are or you're not.
Steph
To expand on that:
If you are, you have been since birth.
If you are, there IS NO MALE.
If you are, you are just a girl trying her damnedest to cope in a situation the majority feels does not exist.
If you are, there is no running away from the hurt because you cannot run away from yourself.
Just sand in the wind.
Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 19, 2007, 07:12:06 PM
Julie....
S T A M P
There's your official stamp of validation. ;)
You're doing fine.
Cindi
Thanks Cindi!
(https://home.comcast.net/~julimarie/image_files/fun/val_stamp.jpg)
Quote from: Nikki_W on February 20, 2007, 04:22:15 PM
That doesn't make it an isolated decision just one that with time you value more compared to the alternatives.
Not exactly. I'm suggesting that there comes a point where "alternatives" don't exist anymore. The context of the situation changes, and it's no longer a value choice amoungst options, it's the only path you can see anymore - aside from simply checking out of course.
It's not an easy thing to face. We say
"No, I'll never do it, there's too much to lose."But there's a silent
"and yet..." lurking, waiting to ruin everything.
Your wife sits down in front of you, takes your hands in hers, and asks,
"Can you tell me you'll NEVER transition?"Panic. Look for an escape. Temptation to lie or deceive. She holds on tight.
"Say it. Tell me you've given up any hope of EVER transitioning. Tell me your dream is DEAD. Tell me you'll NEVER, EVER be a girl."Look down at floor. Silence.
"That's what I thought."Tears from both.
Kate
Hey everyone,
Where are all the psuedo-transsexuals? There must be a lot of them since there is this ridiculous series of hoops we have to jump through to transition. Did you know that 1 in 200 gastric bypass patients will die from complications of the surgery? Yes, no psychological evalution is needed to have this surgery. In fact one can have virtually any kind of plastic, silocone, or saline implant one wants. In the nose, cheeks, chest, buttocks, breasts, hips, calves one can have implants or liposuction and one need not be psychologically evaluated. There are significant complications that arise and the results can be disfiguring and life threatening, yet no psychological test is needed to get these surgerys.
The reason for validation of our transsexualty, is simple. It's required. We must somehow convince a whole bunch of people, who can't imagine what it is like, that our minds do not match our bodies. Why? Why is it that no other major body altering surgery requires the approval of others? Again, where are all these alledged psuedo-transsexuals. I hear vague reference to them, but have yet to meet one. I mean, for all the money, time and resources dedicated to making sure no one makes the wrong decision, you would think this is a very common problem, yet other than hearing that someone once knew of someone that regretted transition, I personally do not know one.
I see other transsexuals telling people they may not be transsexual because they exhibit this behavior or they don't exhibit that behavior, but still I have not met anyone that has said, "you know what?, I made a mistake, I really don't want to be a girl after all".
I have read a lot of articles by a lot of so called psychologists over the years and the only thing that seems clear is that, based on their track record, they are probably wrong in their thinking about GID. A lot of them are clueless people putting forward theories based either created data, or no data at all, just best guesses. I have read theories that all transsexuals are really homosexuals who are too embarrassed to admit they are gay and becoming a woman is the only way they can live thier dream of being with a man. I have read that one can only be attracted to same biological sex to be transsexual. I have read that "true" transsexuals don't have a sex drive at all. I have read that "true" transsexuals don't have sex with opposite biological sex partners. I have read that fetishism is a contraindiction of transsexuality, yet the DSM-V will probably eliminate paraphallia's as as mental disorder, and have already changed their diagnosis criteria where a person can only be diagnosed if these behaviors interfere with thier lives.
Now, I figured out I was transsexual sometime around my 10th birthday. I was not a sexual person yet and had not even learned to masturbate. Still somehow, I remember being quite sure was born into the wrong body. I lived in a small town in Wyoming at the time. SRS had not come to the US yet. Crossdressing had only recently become legal through a Supreme Court ruling. Abortion was still illegal. This transsexuality thing looked to me to be a serious long shot. There were just not many people afflicted with it. For all intents and purposes, I was alone in the world. There was no chance I could ever become a girl. The few transsexuals I seen on TV were all freaks. Because of this, there was just no way I could ever really consider transitioning. I came from poor coal miners. My parents both had 9th grade educations and no accumulated wealth.
Just like all the transsexuals that came before me, my only recourse was to stay in the closet and maybe someday find a way to transition my life in stealth. You see, before surgery, and when crossdressing was illegal, transsexuals would secretly live as the opposite sex. The deal is though, one had to be 100% passable to live and work as the opposite sex without getting caught.
Also there is this crazy notion that all transsexuals transition. In fact, most transsexuals do not transition. Now those who do transition will say that those who do not, must not be "true" transsexuals, but that is simply not true. The truth is, there are a lot of transsexuals out that can not transition for a whole variety of reasons. This does not mean they are not transsexuals. In fact I have never heard anyone but other transsexuals say that.
In the end, the criteria is simple. If you think you are a transsexual, then you are. This is not something that anyone can tell you. Either way. No one can say if anyone but themselves are transsexual. There is just no way to know how someone feels about themselves. I personally am not really interested in what anyone else thinks of it. I will jump through the hoops they tell me to, but in the end, I will make the decision to transition. If it comes down to telling them what they want to hear, so I can get what I want, I am not afraid of that either.
Love always,
Elizabeth
Elizabeth.... you raise important points. There was a time when it was impossible to take hormones and obtain surgery. This has really only been an option for the last few decades. That doesn't mean that there haven't always been "transsexuals". (gawd I hate that term)
I can only say that in my situation, where all seemed totally impossible, I had no choice but to run the line straight to transition. When I started, I had no idea what that even was. I thought that I would likely live my life alone, pretending to be a woman in my privacy. I had no idea that I could live my life openly ... all the time... full time... as a woman. Elizabeth, I know that there are many who can't get the surgery. It is a very difficult thing to obtain for so many.
I remember a young FTM that I met somewhere along the way. I seem to remember that it was when I lived in Salt Lake City. This kid was working 4 jobs to earn enough money for his surgery. He lived very frugally (it's easy when you have no time to spend money) and had enough in just a couple of years to cover all of his expenses. He gave me great inspiration. He knew what had to be done and he did it, no matter the cost or expense. After meeting him, I then knew that I would be fine. All I had to do was to go do it.
I know that Steph says often that "transsexuals will transition". The keyword is "will". It is an effort of strong direction. It is a decision of focus and action. Does this mean surgery? Shoot, I don't know. It means that there is enough GID running around in your head that there is no other choice but to move forward. I know your situation and it seems to me that you have done just that.
Cindi
Quote from: elizabethAlso there is this crazy notion that all transsexuals transition. In fact, most transsexuals do not transition. Now those who do transition will say that those who do not, must not be "true" transsexuals, but that is simply not true. The truth is, there are a lot of transsexuals out that can not transition for a whole variety of reasons. This does not mean they are not transsexuals. In fact I have never heard anyone but other transsexuals say that.
??? i'm afraid i don't agree. if a "transexual" [doesn't transition], it's because they [don't] suffer from [gender dysphoria]; consequently they're [not] transexual.
http://www.geocities.com/danne_32225/gender.htmhttp://www.transsexual.org/whattodo.htmlmy own validation? [knowing] what i am and [proving] that [i'm transexual] by doing [everything] my doctors recommend.
http://www.transsexual.org/whattodo.html
There are lots of reasons why one might not transition. Here are a few:
- Dying before starting to transition
- Placing other people before one's own strong needs
- Not having a chance (this is a smaller issue than e.g. 50 years ago)
- Wrong diagnose + psych drugs
- medical conditions making transition too dangerous (e.g. blood clotting)
I don't think transitioning proves one is transsexual.
(edit - added medical conditions as suggested by Julie Marie)
"It can be that simple"
Yours induced a thought, a parallel.
A parallel with a certain basic human characteristic that was described in a certain theological context: conceptually I suppose, the knowledge and certitude that one is TS not so difficult to ascertain,
Or it is just innate and intuitively understood and granted and that perhaps, is the tough part.
Speaking from experience, very painful experience, the problem here is that the MIND (emotional self?) hovers between a state of disbelief in that reality and truth or the denial of the same, in the context of...knowing what the implications of REALLY being TS COULD have, upon one's life.
That's the way that it was with me for a while: endless 'cycling' between denial or disbelief of that reality about myself resulting in endless processes of intellectual re-validation or 're-certification' of my intense TS.
And this got to a point where it was driving me NUTS (well, MORE nuts).
Condensed, the truth is apparent and undeniable, but it is that which is within that makes it hard to grasp and finally to accept.Quote from: taru on February 21, 2007, 02:22:35 AM
There are lots of reasons why one might not transition. Here are a few:
- Dying before starting to transition
- Placing other people before one's own strong needs
- Not having a chance (this is a smaller issue than e.g. 50 years ago)
- Wrong diagnose + psych drugs
I don't think transitioning proves one is transsexual.
(bold)
Mis-diagnosing THIS condition in some cases of TS. like many other MEDICAL anomalies, could prove to be fatal.
This is not something to be taken lightly by the 'care' communities.
Quote from: Katia on February 21, 2007, 01:11:16 AM
http://www.transsexual.org/whattodo.html
Pretty sound advice. The only thing that ruffles my feathers is:
QuoteSometimes the suffering transsexual is totally hopeless, without enough information or understanding, or trapped by choices and is also unable to face suicide. The result is a massive purge and redoubled effort to conform, and the transsexual enters a stage of denial and repression that can last years...even decades... The solutions are essentially the same as for the 'Early Onset' transsexual, only later in life, and with consequently far more complications. This expression of transsexuality is sometimes referred to as 'Late Onset Transsexualism'.
This ''Late Onset Transsexualism" thing BUGS me, as even though I'm doing this at 42, in NO way did I EVER deny or repress this from ages 1-41. Throughout my entire life, I've been well aware that GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY, I would change my sex in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, I didn't understand the feasibility of my options until the internet came along and I realized what was possible. Until that point, I'd never heard of "transitioning," only "sex change," which to me meant genital surgery and throwing on a dress and being ridiculed and ostracized.
But in no way was my transsexualism "late onset." In no way was I ever in doubt, in denial, or repressing it. I simply didn't think it COULD be solved, so I tried to make the best of things within a (unsuccessfully) male life, but eternally doing so against the constant, relentless, incessant context of I NEED TO BE A GIRL. Heck, *before* I got married sixteen years ago, I TOLD my wife I NEED TO BE A GIRL... but added the qualifier BUT OF COURSE THATS IMPOSSIBLE, SO LETS MAKE THE BEST OF IT.
If I was growing up today, you can be darn sure I'd be finding a way to transition behind my parents back by age twelve or so, having access to information and resources via the internet since birth. I'm VERY resourceful, very spoiled, and very determined when it comes to getting what I want and need.
I sometimes think the younger TSs look down upon the older ones, suggesting that the reason for their delay was a lack of intensity or suffering. It's just not true, the difference is one of education, of when one learns of their options. This stuff is OUT THERE today, in your face, on talk shows, on sitcoms, in the theaters, on soaps, and on the net of course. When I was growing up, it wasn't talked about except on seedy talk shows now and then. I didn't know about hormones, I didn't know that this was actually an accepted, medical condition - I figured asking for help would just get me labelled a freak, pervert, nut-case.
Heck YES I would have transitioned as a child. But I just didn't know.
And I'll forever regret and resent that.
(tries to smooth her feathers back down...)
Kate
QuoteI always new I was a TS woman because my soul (brain, essence, spirit, etc) knew it was female and my body would always disagree.
tinkerbell
Same here and for me the most important part was my essence, I just always new that my inner essence was female, and was born that way, and as you say, my body would disagree, and then when I grew older and realized that magic was not going to remove the defect, I learned how to accept the body thinking it was on my side, then when puberty hit, and all the other boys bodies were doing what they were supposed to, and mine was not, doing what the other girls were doing, so then I was betrayed by my body as well, but then the real stinker was that it did'nt exactly do what the other boy bodies were doing either, so I was just sort of left in never never land.
The only valdiation that I ever wanted was that I infact was born a girl, that I did suffer from transsexualism, and not some other mental illness like MPD, or schophrenia that can sometimes make people think that they are "transsexual". I know that we can either be born male or female, and i know I was born female, a girl that was afflicted with transsexualism.
-pass-
Kate, I had to suppress my feeling the best I could because I didn'y think I had any options. It took it's toll and I wish I had known about transition and what it was really about. In some ways I regret not doing this in my teenage years, but because my body refused to masculinize very much and the way that I coped (learning a lot of new things), I don't completely regret it.
Quote from: passiflora on February 21, 2007, 10:24:18 AM
...then I was betrayed by my body as well, but then the real stinker was that it did'nt exactly do what the other boy bodies were doing either, so I was just sort of left in never never land.
Yeah, I know what you mean. The same thing happened with me. My body was growing much more female than male (bone and muscle-wise) until pubert hit, which changed things. Now it's like I have some semi-masculinized female skeleton in my body and it's just weird.
Melissa
Quote from: Katia on February 21, 2007, 01:11:16 AM
??? i'm afraid i don't agree. if a "transexual" [doesn't transition], it's because they [don't] suffer from [gender dysphoria]; consequently they're [not] transexual.
Not necessarily.
I DO agree that as time marches on, the
I WON'T reasons ("I'm too tall, I don't want to ruin my marriage, everyone will laugh at me, what will the neighbors think? I'll lose my job...) are consumed by the GID one by one. They WILL fall, it just takes time.
But there are valid I CAN'T reasons which can delay things, such as medical and financial concerns. A TS is going to constantly be looking for ways to work through these roadblocks, but still... they do cause delays.
I'm only harping on all this because I want those of you who ARE stuck in I WON'T reasoning to seriously, honestly sit down and examine what you mean. Are you just buying time? TELL me you're not desperately trying to find a way to justify doing what you feel you must do... that everytime you post "I won't transition because..." you're really just praying someone will tell you why you CAN anyway?
Do what you feel is best for you, but don't make my mistake and pretend that I WON'T when you really mean NOT YET, NOT UNTIL I CAN JUSTIFY THIS TO MYSELF for decades, dragging yourself and a wife through your denial (not of what you are, but what you're going to DO).
Ask yourself: can you really, truly give up on transitioing? I mean make a pledge to God, you're going to burn in hell if you lie, swear to him I WILL NEVER TRANSITION.
If not, odds are you WILL. And if so, what more validation do you need?
Kate
Quote from: Katia on February 21, 2007, 01:11:16 AM
??? i'm afraid i don't agree. if a "transexual" [doesn't transition], it's because they [don't] suffer from [gender dysphoria]; consequently they're [not] transexual.
I would say I agree with the overall concept, but not the wording. I would say they do suffer from Gender Dysphoria, but it's just not intense enough to qualify them as a transsexual because by definition, a transsexual will be so uncomfortable in their birth gender they will effectively need to transition. I think there are people on here that suffer with *some* degree of gender dysphoria, but it's not strong enough where transisioning becomes the only viable option and they are able to list reasons as to why they can't. Perhaps with age (since it does get worse), it will intensify enough to qualify them as TS.
Melissa
Elizabeth, I have experienced this hyper critical attitude from other TSs. "You're not a TS unless..." and you have to then satisfy what THEY think makes one TS. It's a shame we can't just support each other.
And you make some very excellent points. I've asked many times why anyone can go and have elective surgeries of all kinds without psychological evaluation and approval. I know the reason we have to do it, because it's not socially acceptable. It doesn't matter that the mental and medical communities haven't seen that GRS is almost 100% effective in curing gender dysphoria. It still isn't socially acceptable and that's a wall that won't come down easily. I know common sense doesn't work. I've tried it.
Your statement about what you will do to get what you need from the medical community reflects my belief. I have been vary careful not to show any signs of transitioning not being 100% right for me. I've heard stories of others who find themselves begging for the HRT letter or the GRS letter and therapists telling them "I don't feel you're ready" even when the patient has talked suicide. So when I talk to my doctor and especially to my therapist, I make sure they know only the happiest of times I experience living full time. Deep inside I know this is right and that's all that matters. Very shortly I'll be setting up an appointment with my therapist to discuss the GRS letter and I don't want any problems getting it.
taru, one thing you might add to your list is some of us CAN'T have the surgeries or go on HRT because it's too risky, given our medical condition. If you have a family history of blood clotting you won't find a reputable doctor who will prescribe hormones for you.
Kate, by your definition I've never been in denial. Deep inside I've always wanted to be a girl/woman. But I believed I couldn't choose to transition because I'd hurt my family and friends. I also thought I could never pass and that I'd be an outcast if I transitioned.
However when I thought about being female it just seemed so right. I longed for something to happen, something which was out of my control, something that would MAKE me have to transition. I would have no choice. That way no one would fault me for making the decision. Of course, that was a silly daydream.
Denial for me was necessary because I didn't have the courage to lose everything. I couldn't stand alone and say to the world, "This is me! Take it or leave it!" I was frozen with fear every time I thought about transitioning. But more than anything in the world I wanted to be a woman. Every night when I went to bed I thought about different scenarios that would all end up be becoming female. This occupied all my idle hours and distracted me constantly from doing every day things. I could have accomplished so much more in this life if I had just been able to transition earlier. I didn't then but I am now and that's all that matters.
I used denial to help me through life. If I allowed myself to be, me I knew I would never want to go back and would live my life as a woman. Then I'd be abandoned by everyone I knew and be branded a freak, pervert, sicko, whatever. I wasn't in touch with the personal strength it would have taken to live as a woman in a time when it was almost unheard of. After I got married and had kids I felt I had an obligation to raise them the best I could. As soon as the youngest went off to college I began my transition. It was if I was planning this all along. Maybe I was.
This thread has gone in a very serious direction, obviously because a lot of us have very serious issues with the whole validation thing. When I posted my pic with Cindi's stamp I wasn't trying to make light of things. What I was saying is Cindi is right. All you need is that stamp. However you get it doesn't matter as long as it means you have been validated, you are at peace with who you are. Cindi's simple "S T A M P" spoke volumes to me (thank you Cindi). At that point I knew the criticism and bad vibes I received from fellow TSs didn't mean a thing. No matter what anyone says, I need to live the remainder of my life as a woman. I don't need any other validation or anyone's approval.
Julie
Quote from: Elizabeth on February 20, 2007, 10:58:51 PM
Hey everyone,
Where are all the psuedo-transsexuals? There must be a lot of them since there is this ridiculous series of hoops we have to jump through to transition. Did you know that 1 in 200 gastric bypass patients will die from complications of the surgery? Yes, no psychological evalution is needed to have this surgery. In fact one can have virtually any kind of plastic, silocone, or saline implant one wants. In the nose, cheeks, chest, buttocks, breasts, hips, calves one can have implants or liposuction and one need not be psychologically evaluated. There are significant complications that arise and the results can be disfiguring and life threatening, yet no psychological test is needed to get these surgerys.
Actually there are not that many TS in this world if there were we would have more of an impact on the medical community. To be honest I had the same notion that I would have to jump through hoops, but I didn't. Yes I had to see a therapist but that was no big deal and it cost a few bucks, but then I'm worth it. I had to get a letter for HRT, but whats the big deal, if a person is confident that they are TS then they should be confident that the therapists will see that too.
As far as the other forms of cosmetic surgery are concerned, most are reversible should mistakes be made, and Castro bypass is not in the same league as GRS. Lets face it, it is hard for the general public to get their collective heads around the notion that, in their eye's, a man would want to have their genitals removed, likewise a female having their breasts removed. What kind of wacko would want to do that.
Personally I'm probably one of those radical TS who see other TS moaning and crying the blues because things are not going their way, that they should be the ones who determines what they do, well I'm afraid that it doesn't work like that, there are far too few resources out there to be tied up by a few idiots who live under the misconception that they are a woman. Many many times we read here that we all know what's best for us, and we should be the ones who determines our future and I agree in a perfect world that be great. Cancer patients don't get to pick and choose their treatment schedule and the medical community determines who gets transplants etc. etc. etc. There are rules out there that cover pretty well every facet of our lives and I know that the anarchists really resent that but in the end they protect us.
I think that we need to be a little realistic. I can imagine what would happen to the system if we threw the rules out the window and said "Ya know something, why should we care, go out and get your hormones and determine for yourself how much to take, then when your boobs are big enough just give the surgeons a call, give them a valid credit card and be done with it". Yep that would work.
I would suggest that those out there who think as I once did that these hoops are a waste of our time and theirs, that they should start working with the medical community to get things changed. It's not hard, get involved, be proactive, stop complaining, do something about it. I did.
Steph
P.S. My words are not directed at any one in particular should there be any concer.
Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM
There are rules out there that cover pretty well every facet of our lives and I know that the anarchists really resent that but in the end they protect us.
To some extent, but I think the rules are mainly in place to protect the doctors and surgeons from lawsuits. They need that legal assurance of it being a "medical necessity" since the public thinks we're basically nuts otherwise.
The rules don't seem to be doing much to stop the deluded from getting what they want... at least I haven't noticed it on the forums I belong to. How often do you see posts of, "I asked for HRT but was told NO!"
Well... *aside* from me that is ;)
Still though, the system is what it is. If you need to transition, sooner or later you have to swallow your pride and decide where your priorities are.
Kate
The outright denying is perhaps not so common, but at least the "lets do therapy for a year more and then maybe we will give HRT" is used. And the current system in some places pressures people into lying - which makes therapy counterproductive.
Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM
I had to get a letter for HRT, but whats the big deal, if a person is confident that they are TS then they should be confident that the therapists will see that too.
That level of confidence requires faith in other people and esp when it comes to the medical community that is in pretty short supply.
Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AMPersonally I'm probably one of those radical TS who see other TS moaning and crying the blues because things are not going their way, that they should be the ones who determines what they do, well I'm afraid that it doesn't work like that, there are far too few resources out there to be tied up by a few idiots who live under the misconception that they are a woman.
While the process bugs me and the idea of going to see a therapist and being told nothings wrong go home seems all too real too me.(I'm glad you have faith in the medical community but I've known something was physically wrong gone to the doctor been told nothings wrong its just stress or your just dehydrated, they wouldn't look for a problem till i couldn't get out of bed.) Doctors do however have the right to say what assurances they need before performing a procedure.
What annoys the heck out of me is the way some long term members of this community don't consider you a woman until a therapist validates your claims. Ok we need validation from the medical community to receive treatment from the medical community. But we shouldn't need it to be called a woman or to receive acceptance as such from the TG community. I've never seen anyone call for GG's to go to therapy to confirm they they are female before they are accepted as women. But I have seen members here question someone calling themselves a woman without a diagnosis.
Quote from: Kate on February 23, 2007, 08:55:00 AM
Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM
There are rules out there that cover pretty well every facet of our lives and I know that the anarchists really resent that but in the end they protect us.
To some extent, but I think the rules are mainly in place to protect the doctors and surgeons from lawsuits. They need that legal assurance of it being a "medical necessity" since the public thinks we're basically nuts otherwise.
Kate
You're right Kate. Many of the rules are in place to protect the doctors and hospitals. A friend who is a plastic surgeon has told me many times about the fear within the medical community regarding being sued. When they make a mistake, they begin to sweat the consequences. So they have to establish rules to minimize mistakes in order to protect them from the lawsuit crazed individuals and lawyers. Lawyers advertise in hopes they will hit a button and make you think you may have case. It didn't used to be that way. The American Bar Association at one time forbade advertising. When they started to allow it is when the frivolous lawsuits began and the medical community began to establish rules to protect themselves. (I'm not against lawyers. My father, grandfather and great grandfather were all attorneys at law.)
Another obstacle the medical community had to overcome was operating on a healthy patient. When you consider only the physical health of the patient, this is against the Hippocratic Oath. They need to know that the overall well being, physical as well as mental, will improve in order to justify operating on a healthy patient. I know most plastic surgeons no longer worry about that part of their oath but at one time they all did. The SOC gave them justification to perform GRS. And I'm sure for some allowed them to overcome their own phobias about removing the genitals of a man who is healthy. A lot of these rules stem from personal objections.
However, it does seem suspect that FFS requires no therapy, no psychological evaluation and/or no documentation verifying an individual needs this elective surgery. I'm sure that is in part, if not all, because society thinks it's insane to want healthy genitals or breasts removed. If you want to change your face, okay. But the other things? We need to have something in writing because only a certifiable nut would want that done! And yet FFS will change how society reacts to you far more than GRS. Unless you live in a nudist colony. So it's pretty clear what the motivation for psychological evaluation is for those wanting GRS.
I still believe that sane adults who want elective surgery performed on them should be able to have it, so long as they can pay for it, without psychological evaluation. (I know, how do you know they are sane?) I don't believe in laws that are in place affecting all for the protection of a few. If a small percentage of drivers just kept getting in accidents I wouldn't want them to outlaw cars. But I also believe that if one wants or expects insurance to cover "elective" surgeries, psychological evaluation should be required.
Julie
Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM
Quote from: Elizabeth on February 20, 2007, 10:58:51 PM
Hey everyone,
Where are all the psuedo-transsexuals? There must be a lot of them since there is this ridiculous series of hoops we have to jump through to transition. Did you know that 1 in 200 gastric bypass patients will die from complications of the surgery? Yes, no psychological evalution is needed to have this surgery. In fact one can have virtually any kind of plastic, silocone, or saline implant one wants. In the nose, cheeks, chest, buttocks, breasts, hips, calves one can have implants or liposuction and one need not be psychologically evaluated. There are significant complications that arise and the results can be disfiguring and life threatening, yet no psychological test is needed to get these surgerys.
Personally I'm probably one of those radical TS who see other TS moaning and crying the blues because things are not going their way, that they should be the ones who determines what they do, well I'm afraid that it doesn't work like that, there are far too few resources out there to be tied up by a few idiots who live under the misconception that they are a woman. Many many times we read here that we all know what's best for us, and we should be the ones who determines our future and I agree in a perfect world that be great. Cancer patients don't get to pick and choose their treatment schedule and the medical community determines who gets transplants etc. etc. etc. There are rules out there that cover pretty well every facet of our lives and I know that the anarchists really resent that but in the end they protect us.
I think that we need to be a little realistic. I can imagine what would happen to the system if we threw the rules out the window and said "Ya know something, why should we care, go out and get your hormones and determine for yourself how much to take, then when your boobs are big enough just give the surgeons a call, give them a valid credit card and be done with it". Yep that would work.
I would suggest that those out there who think as I once did that these hoops are a waste of our time and theirs, that they should start working with the medical community to get things changed. It's not hard, get involved, be proactive, stop complaining, do something about it. I did.
Steph
P.S. My words are not directed at any one in particular should there be any concer.
(bold 1)
I am aware of abuses and petty ego games perpetrated by psychiatric and medical 'professionals' upon sisters and brothers, thereby inducing unnecessary stress and anguish in them, while they were trying to fight their way through the protocols.
These served to reinforce my contempt for the same, insofar as my own case is concerned.
(bold 2)
Moaning and groaning and dying.
I wonder how many of these ultimately suicided, because their GID was of such intensity where they gave up trying to "play by the rules" and just ended it all, to end their pain and agony-?
Just a rhetorical question.
(bold 3)
I never countenanced the discarding of HBIGDA/SOC, nor universal inapplicability of the same, nor would I favor the abandonment of these protocols.
That would be foolish and untenable. It's a safe and regulated pathway to completion.
But as applicable to ME, I repudiate these. They do not apply to me, nor is the proscribed transitional sequence even possible for me to comply with, given my employment situation and characteristics of my GID.
I am essentially controlling my own transition, not by desire, but of NECESSITY. I have no choice.
And as I stated elsewhere, 40 years of suffering and agony inflicted by intense GID, gives me the RIGHT to execute my own transitional sequencing and event flow.
I KNOW what I NEED and want and I have paid my dues, SEVERAL times over.
no one is going to give you a "sex change" a therapist-patient relationship when dealing with GID HAS to be two way, if the therapist essentially sees someone who acts like a man talks like a man moves like a man and is a man they're not just going to hand hormones over because they say they feel like a woman in an instant, it's entirely warrented for them to want to get to know a patient for a while first.
I mean heck, I'm only going to see my current doc three more times before she gives me my SRS letter and sends me off for the second one and I've only seen her once before and I was already FT, my two other therapists knew me as male, one for a long time and one for a short time, with both I essentially walked them through my life, my experiences and how I feel about it and unless you're obviously lying they'll have no reason to contest you unless their concern is valid.
You cannot expect someone to accept you're a woman just because you say so.
In my experience over the past year and a half, I have yet to see somebody go to a therapist and be turned away to go home. The 2 routes I've seen is they are either given the green light or they discover they have far more exploration to do about themselves before taking action and end up realizing that themselves that they may not be TS. However, I have yet to see somebody who is genuinely TS being told they are delusional by a therapist.
Melissa
Quote from: Mawd on February 25, 2007, 08:36:07 AM
if the therapist essentially sees someone who acts like a man talks like a man moves like a man and is a man they're not just going to hand hormones over because they say they feel like a woman in an instant...
Maybe not in an instant, but it should be noted that passability, dressing enfemme, and acting feminine are not requirements for an HRT letter or a GID diagnosis.
Lucky for me ;)
My therapist withheld my HRT letter for months, but only because she felt I had not fully accepted or committed to the consequences of the journey I was about to embark on.
Kate
Quote from: Kate on February 25, 2007, 10:28:48 AM
Quote from: Mawd on February 25, 2007, 08:36:07 AM
if the therapist essentially sees someone who acts like a man talks like a man moves like a man and is a man they're not just going to hand hormones over because they say they feel like a woman in an instant...
Maybe not in an instant, but it should be noted that passability, dressing enfemme, and acting feminine are not requirements for an HRT letter or a GID diagnosis.
Lucky for me ;)
My therapist withheld my HRT letter for months, but only because she felt I had not fully accepted or committed to the consequences of the journey I was about to embark on.
Kate
....and also, well, if someone was born male, was raised as a male, socialized his entire life as a man, etc, etc, etc, it is "very normal" that that person looks, talks, dresses, behaves, laughs, walks as a man, isn't it? I agree that in some instances the patient may sound or behave a bit feminine, but not to the point of being confused for a woman, not on the first day of therapy at least.
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 23, 2007, 09:18:16 PM
Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM
Quote from: Elizabeth on February 20, 2007, 10:58:51 PM
Hey everyone,
Where are all the psuedo-transsexuals? There must be a lot of them since there is this ridiculous series of hoops we have to jump through to transition. Did you know that 1 in 200 gastric bypass patients will die from complications of the surgery? Yes, no psychological evalution is needed to have this surgery. In fact one can have virtually any kind of plastic, silocone, or saline implant one wants. In the nose, cheeks, chest, buttocks, breasts, hips, calves one can have implants or liposuction and one need not be psychologically evaluated. There are significant complications that arise and the results can be disfiguring and life threatening, yet no psychological test is needed to get these surgerys.
Personally I'm probably one of those radical TS who see other TS moaning and crying the blues because things are not going their way, that they should be the ones who determines what they do, well I'm afraid that it doesn't work like that, there are far too few resources out there to be tied up by a few idiots who live under the misconception that they are a woman. Many many times we read here that we all know what's best for us, and we should be the ones who determines our future and I agree in a perfect world that be great. Cancer patients don't get to pick and choose their treatment schedule and the medical community determines who gets transplants etc. etc. etc. There are rules out there that cover pretty well every facet of our lives and I know that the anarchists really resent that but in the end they protect us.
I think that we need to be a little realistic. I can imagine what would happen to the system if we threw the rules out the window and said "Ya know something, why should we care, go out and get your hormones and determine for yourself how much to take, then when your boobs are big enough just give the surgeons a call, give them a valid credit card and be done with it". Yep that would work.
I would suggest that those out there who think as I once did that these hoops are a waste of our time and theirs, that they should start working with the medical community to get things changed. It's not hard, get involved, be proactive, stop complaining, do something about it. I did.
Steph
P.S. My words are not directed at any one in particular should there be any concer.
(bold 1)
I am aware of abuses and petty ego games perpetrated by psychiatric and medical 'professionals' upon sisters and brothers, thereby inducing unnecessary stress and anguish in them, while they were trying to fight their way through the protocols.
These served to reinforce my contempt for the same, insofar as my own case is concerned.
(bold 2)
Moaning and groaning and dying.
I wonder how many of these ultimately suicided, because their GID was of such intensity where they gave up trying to "play by the rules" and just ended it all, to end their pain and agony-?
Just a rhetorical question.
You make it sound as though the rules are insurmountable. If this little girl can do it then anyone should be able to. What are you scared of? Perhaps that someone will tell you that you're not TS. What's the big deal with being TS, it seems as though you have convinced yourself that you are, and are afraid of someone telling you different.
Quote(bold 3)
I never countenanced the discarding of HBIGDA/SOC, nor universal inapplicability of the same, nor would I favor the abandonment of these protocols.
That would be foolish and untenable. It's a safe and regulated pathway to completion.
But as applicable to ME, I repudiate these. They do not apply to me, nor is the proscribed transitional sequence even possible for me to comply with, given my employment situation and characteristics of my GID.
I am essentially controlling my own transition, not by desire, but of NECESSITY. I have no choice.
And as I stated elsewhere, 40 years of suffering and agony inflicted by intense GID, gives me the RIGHT to execute my own transitional sequencing and event flow.
I KNOW what I NEED and want and I have paid my dues, SEVERAL times over.
[/color][/font][/size][/i]
You are not unique in these thoughts, I too have paid my dues several times over, in fact I still pay my dues, I too knew what was best for me, I too thought that the process was nothing short of quackery, but here I am, within two years of deciding what was best for me I went through the "system", and you know something it was easy as pie (the process that is, consequences are a different story), it's the $ value that hurt, but as I have said before, I'm worth it. I now have peace of mind, freedoms, and happiness to live the ramainder of my life as it should have been.
You can beat yourself up, and scream bloody murder, but short of breaking the law you're going to have to go though the system hon.
Steph
Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM
Personally I'm probably one of those radical TS who see other TS moaning and crying the blues because things are not going their way, that they should be the ones who determines what they do, well I'm afraid that it doesn't work like that, there are far too few resources out there to be tied up by a few idiots who live under the misconception that they are a woman.
Quoted for truth.
There's a system and path there for a reason; if you fit the bill, you'll find it straightforward. People who think they're somehow exceptional — thinking the rules don't apply to them — and wanting to take shortcuts are misguided. Like others here, I once also thought those rules didn't apply to me, but now at the other end, I see the value of the discipline and structure they impose, as well as the essential objectivity bought by therapy.
Timely comment too, personally speaking. I was in a session with my psychiatrist the other day, talking about whether I should be discharged for good from the clinic, and I mentioned that I was considering some FFS procedures, doing my research, saving up, planning things out...
And he said something along the lines of:
"This is why we (meaning the clinical team at the GIC) have been pleased with you, you've taken your time, socialised yourself, stabilised yourself, postponed surgery
twice to fit it in around your career, haven't rushed into anything.
The people we worry about are the ones who say they need everything now."
Quote from: Melissa on February 25, 2007, 10:11:15 AM
In my experience over the past year and a half, I have yet to see somebody go to a therapist and be turned away to go home. The 2 routes I've seen is they are either given the green light or they discover they have far more exploration to do about themselves before taking action and end up realizing that themselves that they may not be TS. However, I have yet to see somebody who is genuinely TS being told they are delusional by a therapist.
Melissa
Being 'turned away' by a therapist is not a concern, nor a factor.Quote from: Steph on February 25, 2007, 04:22:49 PM
Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 23, 2007, 09:18:16 PM
Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM
Quote from: Elizabeth on February 20, 2007, 10:58:51 PM
Hey everyone,
Where are all the psuedo-transsexuals? There must be a lot of them since there is this ridiculous series of hoops we have to jump through to transition. Did you know that 1 in 200 gastric bypass patients will die from complications of the surgery? Yes, no psychological evalution is needed to have this surgery. In fact one can have virtually any kind of plastic, silocone, or saline implant one wants. In the nose, cheeks, chest, buttocks, breasts, hips, calves one can have implants or liposuction and one need not be psychologically evaluated. There are significant complications that arise and the results can be disfiguring and life threatening, yet no psychological test is needed to get these surgerys.
Personally I'm probably one of those radical TS who see other TS moaning and crying the blues because things are not going their way, that they should be the ones who determines what they do, well I'm afraid that it doesn't work like that, there are far too few resources out there to be tied up by a few idiots who live under the misconception that they are a woman. Many many times we read here that we all know what's best for us, and we should be the ones who determines our future and I agree in a perfect world that be great. Cancer patients don't get to pick and choose their treatment schedule and the medical community determines who gets transplants etc. etc. etc. There are rules out there that cover pretty well every facet of our lives and I know that the anarchists really resent that but in the end they protect us.
I think that we need to be a little realistic. I can imagine what would happen to the system if we threw the rules out the window and said "Ya know something, why should we care, go out and get your hormones and determine for yourself how much to take, then when your boobs are big enough just give the surgeons a call, give them a valid credit card and be done with it". Yep that would work.
I would suggest that those out there who think as I once did that these hoops are a waste of our time and theirs, that they should start working with the medical community to get things changed. It's not hard, get involved, be proactive, stop complaining, do something about it. I did.
Steph
P.S. My words are not directed at any one in particular should there be any concer.
(bold 1)
I am aware of abuses and petty ego games perpetrated by psychiatric and medical 'professionals' upon sisters and brothers, thereby inducing unnecessary stress and anguish in them, while they were trying to fight their way through the protocols.
These served to reinforce my contempt for the same, insofar as my own case is concerned.
(bold 2)
Moaning and groaning and dying.
I wonder how many of these ultimately suicided, because their GID was of such intensity where they gave up trying to "play by the rules" and just ended it all, to end their pain and agony-?
Just a rhetorical question.
You make it sound as though the rules are insurmountable. If this little girl can do it then anyone should be able to. What are you scared of? Perhaps that someone will tell you that you're not TS. What's the big deal with being TS, it seems as though you have convinced yourself that you are, and are afraid of someone telling you different.
Quote(bold 3)
I never countenanced the discarding of HBIGDA/SOC, nor universal inapplicability of the same, nor would I favor the abandonment of these protocols.
That would be foolish and untenable. It's a safe and regulated pathway to completion.
But as applicable to ME, I repudiate these. They do not apply to me, nor is the proscribed transitional sequence even possible for me to comply with, given my employment situation and characteristics of my GID.
I am essentially controlling my own transition, not by desire, but of NECESSITY. I have no choice.
And as I stated elsewhere, 40 years of suffering and agony inflicted by intense GID, gives me the RIGHT to execute my own transitional sequencing and event flow.
I KNOW what I NEED and want and I have paid my dues, SEVERAL times over.
[/color][/font][/size][/i]
You are not unique in these thoughts, I too have paid my dues several times over, in fact I still pay my dues, I too knew what was best for me, I too thought that the process was nothing short of quackery, but here I am, within two years of deciding what was best for me I went through the "system", and you know something it was easy as pie (the process that is, consequences are a different story), it's the $ value that hurt, but as I have said before, I'm worth it. I now have peace of mind, freedoms, and happiness to live the ramainder of my life as it should have been.
You can beat yourself up, and scream bloody murder, but short of breaking the law you're going to have to go though the system hon.
Steph
(bold 1)
Insurmountable?
I conveyed no such sentiment, nor was it my intention to.
How do you know that I am 'scared of' something?
I neither conveyed fear. I hardly need an 'objective' external certification to validate my GID.
Oh no, dear; no fear exists.
"It seems as though..."
It's worth noting that what seems to be the case in a given situation, is not necessarily concordant with what constitutes that which is extant.
(bold 2)
I did make it manifest that the sequencing dictated by HBIGDA was impossible for me to comply with, for several reasons.
It is also a financial impossibility to process through that 'transitional syllabus.
(bold 3)
That is untrue. So far, I have not and have had no problem starting HRT very early in my transition, my HRT is now prescribed and I have been in therapy for 15 or so, months.
My body is feminizing much better than expected, for an 'old girl' and certain surgeries have been acquired for a mere fraction of what they normally would have cost me.
As for SRS, my sister? I will have no problem in acquiring is, when the time comes and without 'letters', as was the case with my HRT.
"No worries".
Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 23, 2007, 09:18:16 PM
I wonder how many of these ultimately suicided, because their GID was of such intensity where they gave up trying to "play by the rules" and just ended it all, to end their pain and agony-?
I came very, very close.
But then I decided that it was time to grow up and stop begging for permission, to accept *complete* responsibility for what I was doing and the consequences, and to never again look to someone else to tell me who I was, and where I needed to go.
The system is fine. The interpreters of that system... are sometimes another story.
Kate
Quote from: Stormy Weather on February 25, 2007, 04:59:59 PM
Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM
Personally I'm probably one of those radical TS who see other TS moaning and crying the blues because things are not going their way, that they should be the ones who determines what they do, well I'm afraid that it doesn't work like that, there are far too few resources out there to be tied up by a few idiots who live under the misconception that they are a woman.
Quoted for truth.
There's a system and path there for a reason; if you fit the bill, you'll find it straightforward. People who think they're somehow exceptional — thinking the rules don't apply to them — and wanting to take shortcuts are misguided. Like others here, I once also thought those rules didn't apply to me, but now at the other end, I see the value of the discipline and structure they impose, as well as the essential objectivity bought by therapy.
Timely comment too, personally speaking. I was in a session with my psychiatrist the other day, talking about whether I should be discharged for good from the clinic, and I mentioned that I was considering some FFS procedures, doing my research, saving up, planning things out...
And he said something along the lines of:
"This is why we (meaning the clinical team at the GIC) have been pleased with you, you've taken your time, socialised yourself, stabilised yourself, postponed surgery twice to fit it in around your career, haven't rushed into anything. The people we worry about are the ones who say they need everything now."
(bold 1)
In ALL cases ALL of the time?
This is a universalization and as such, is rationally untenable.
You cannot possibly assert universally that anyone who 'does not follow the rules' is 'misguided'.
It's a universalization which cannot possibly proven to be true and it does injustice to those who by circumstance cannot 'follow the rules' and must transition, as a function of the level of their GID.
What is beneficial and suitable for you, is not such for everybody and every life situation that one may be existing in.
Quote from: Kate on February 25, 2007, 06:00:36 PM
Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 23, 2007, 09:18:16 PM
I wonder how many of these ultimately suicided, because their GID was of such intensity where they gave up trying to "play by the rules" and just ended it all, to end their pain and agony-?
I came very, very close.
But then I decided that it was time to grow up and stop begging for permission, to accept *complete* responsibility for what I was doing and the consequences, and to never again look to someone else to tell me who I was, and where I needed to go.
The system is fine. The interpreters of that system... are sometimes another story.
Kate
Again sweetie, I am in no way asserting that these protocols be scrapped--but not everybody can execute them, for one reason or another.
For me to adamantly desire the total abandonment of HBIGDA would be a manifestation of hate and rank selfishness.
Then I would be universalizing. I don't work that way.
Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 25, 2007, 06:15:33 PM
In ALL cases ALL of the time?
This is a universalization and as such, is rationally untenable.
You cannot possibly assert universally that anyone who 'does not follow the rules' is 'misguided'.
It's a universalization which cannot possibly proven to be true and it does injustice to those who by circumstance cannot 'follow the rules' and must transition, as a function of the level of their GID.
What is beneficial and suitable for you, is not such for everybody and every life situation that one may be existing in.
Say what you like, dress it up in language, attempt to rationalise it until the cows come home without taking protocol and procedure into account...
that is what is untenable. I've walked the path, know the ropes, and speak from my and others' experience. I've seen others fall by the wayside due to their own lack of self-analysis, planning and realism. This is not something you can rationalise, anyway. However, I wish you luck on your journey, regardless of where it takes you.
Quote from: Stormy Weather on February 25, 2007, 06:27:02 PM
Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 25, 2007, 06:15:33 PM
In ALL cases ALL of the time?
This is a universalization and as such, is rationally untenable.
You cannot possibly assert universally that anyone who 'does not follow the rules' is 'misguided'.
It's a universalization which cannot possibly proven to be true and it does injustice to those who by circumstance cannot 'follow the rules' and must transition, as a function of the level of their GID.
What is beneficial and suitable for you, is not such for everybody and every life situation that one may be existing in.
Say what you like, dress it up in language, attempt to rationalise it until the cows come home without taking protocol and procedure into account... that is what is untenable. I've walked the path, know the ropes, and speak from my and others' experience. I've seen others fall by the wayside due to their own lack of self-analysis, planning and realism. This is not something you can rationalise, anyway. However, I wish you luck on your journey, regardless of where it takes you.
That constitutes a mere dismissal and as such, is a non-response.
I think that I'll go cook some chicken; my trackball is looking mighty tasty, right now.
OK. After a few minutes googling around I know exactly what place you are coming from... peace and best wishes to you.
I mean you no malice, sis.
We do not concur with each other, but somehow that seems to be insufficient grounds to execute a duel at two paces, with RPGs.
Or even a rubber-band gun.
I'm the last dragon perhaps.... :angel:
QuoteI would say they do suffer from Gender Dysphoria, but it's just not intense enough to qualify them as a transsexual because by definition, a transsexual will be so uncomfortable in their birth gender they will effectively need to transition. I think there are people on here that suffer with *some* degree of gender dysphoria, but it's not strong enough where transisioning becomes the only viable option
The H Benjamin doctrines all say this and that and transition is marketed because it is the only option. Medicine has not provided another one (cure) or another way.
I do not have another option but because of my own convictions refuse to believe this is the only option for me. I am stronger than this, and if right now as stated in many texts its either transition or die, then some day i may die. This is me..... :icon_archery:
but my genderism or feelings are not negotiable based on text or a yardstick of transitioning. Scores-successes- literary posts of successful transitions and those successful transitions touting that if they can do it everyone can do it or should...
We should be mindful of each others expectations and limitations
If one cancer patient survives how come all do not? If one person survives a 90 foot fall how come 1100 others have not?
Our very own peoples in this small civilization we live in should be mindful of this and not create to much separation.I do not define anyones gender or pretend to think i can tell them at what threshold they should be at. often times in posts the statements or comments are made that "once" you transition you'll this or that. I do not know but because some have fought the battle and have attained that others may not be able to, we should be considerate of these folks and not automatically put them on a graduating scale...
sorry but because i do not transition does not mean anything less i have just found ways to survive and perhaps put off the inevitable... :-\
dearest luv.... :-*
I'm feeling a little free spirited tonight (no not alcohol induced :P) so bear with me and not take my post any way but just as my own feelings...
Ricki
Quote from: Stormy Weather on February 25, 2007, 06:55:08 PM
OK. After a few minutes googling around I know exactly what place you are coming from... peace and best wishes to you.
Actually that is not necessarily true.
Can people change?
Can people improve?
Can people HEAL?
I have nothing to hide.
Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 25, 2007, 07:11:08 PM
I have nothing to hide.
Out of interest and this is no way ment to me provcational what exactly cant you comply with in the SOC? personally I've found it a doddle.
Money and career.
Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 26, 2007, 10:38:57 AM
Money and career.
Yes.... should you pursue transition, you'll likely lose both. But this is true whether you follow the standards of care or not. Pretty overwhelming isn't it?
Cindi
Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 26, 2007, 03:49:46 PM
Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 26, 2007, 10:38:57 AM
Money and career.
Yes.... should you pursue transition, you'll likely lose both. But this is true whether you follow the standards of care or not. Pretty overwhelming isn't it?
But this is not
always the case as I have demonstrated. And yes, I have followed the SOC.
Melissa
Quote from: Melissa on February 26, 2007, 04:16:49 PM
But this is not always the case as I have demonstrated. And yes, I have followed the SOC.
Likewise.
And in fact, both my career, income, degree and variety of professional contacts and freelance clients have flourished beyond anything I could have imagined 10 years ago.
Perhaps because I work in a creative field (graphic designer and studio manager), perhaps because I'm at peace with myself, perhaps because I wouldn't accept the barriers before me, perhaps because I pass OK, and perhaps because I worked and do work extremely hard with long hours... but transitioning has, without a single shred of doubt, been the making of me. And the money I work hard for will go towards paying for my FFS next year...
Not one part of this is luck... 10 years ago I was homeless. On the streets. With an opiate habit. So no-one can tell me that challenges can't be overcome.
I would just like to jump in here and add my 2¢ if I may :)
All this doom and gloom. Embarking on transition should never be taken lightly, in fact if it is not planned it can end in miserable failure. We always recommend erring on the side of caution, plan for the worst etc. but often this is not the case.
Money and careers are often listed as barriers to transition, but the truth is all it takes is a little intestinal fortitude to over come this. If you are TS you will do anything to reach your goal. Sell your stuff, adjust your lifestyle, move to cheaper accommodation, cash in bonds, life insurance etc find more work, I worked three jobs myself. I gave up a 30 year military career and I survived, folks often say, I can't, I can't I can't, when in actual fact they mean I won't... A big difference.
Steph
Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 26, 2007, 03:49:46 PM
Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 26, 2007, 10:38:57 AM
Money and career.
Yes.... should you pursue transition, you'll likely lose both. But this is true whether you follow the standards of care or not. Pretty overwhelming isn't it?
Cindi
I'm trying to discern the tone of yours, but in any case it would be nothing more than speculation and therefore unworthy of voicing.
The probability suggested is suspect.
It is necessarily contingent upon a number of variables.
It isn't possible to prognosticate what will happen and what happens to one girl will not by necessity, happen to another.Quote from: Steph on February 26, 2007, 09:03:28 PM
I would just like to jump in here and add my 2¢ if I may :)
All this doom and gloom. Embarking on transition should never be taken lightly, in fact if it is not planned it can end in miserable failure. We always recommend erring on the side of caution, plan for the worst etc. but often this is not the case.
Money and careers are often listed as barriers to transition, but the truth is all it takes is a little intestinal fortitude to over come this. If you are TS you will do anything to reach your goal. Sell your stuff, adjust your lifestyle, move to cheaper accommodation, cash in bonds, life insurance etc find more work, I worked three jobs myself. I gave up a 30 year military career and I survived, folks often say, I can't, I can't I can't, when in actual fact they mean I won't... A big difference.
Steph
Life is a little more complex than that, my sister.
Rhonda,
You're a kick. The bottom line is that you can get what you really want. I see kids who work at McDonalds who drive new four wheel drive trucks. Certainly, most of us have more on the ball than they do.
Cindi
Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 26, 2007, 09:53:56 PM
Rhonda,
You're a kick. The bottom line is that you can get what you really want. I see kids who work at McDonalds who drive new four wheel drive trucks. Certainly, most of us have more on the ball than they do.
Cindi
Pejorative?
"Whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you're right." --Henry Ford
Melissa
Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 26, 2007, 10:00:12 PM
Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 26, 2007, 09:53:56 PM
Rhonda,
You're a kick. The bottom line is that you can get what you really want. I see kids who work at McDonalds who drive new four wheel drive trucks. Certainly, most of us have more on the ball than they do.
Cindi
Pejorative?
Nope...My comment about "You're a kick" is purely friendly. Excellent vocuabulary and deep thinker. The truck thang.... it's ....
impetus
Cindi
Quote from: Steph on February 26, 2007, 09:03:28 PMfolks often say, I can't, I can't I can't, when in actual fact they mean I won't... A big difference.
Steph
:eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap:
Thank you Steph! Perfectly stated!
Many years ago I was talking "can'ts" about crossdressing and being out in public. I was asked to replace "can't" with "won't" then asked which sounded more accurate. I had to be honest, "won't" was more accurate.
Life is a series of choices. We can make compromises or damn the torpedoes. If we want something badly enough there is a way. The "can't" argument is just an excuse not to act. I feared rejection the deeply. But I feared loss of the will to live even more. I made my choice and I lost a lot but I gained an inner peace I never thought I'd have.
Our lives take place in the space between our ears. We are in control if we want to be. The choice is ours to make.
Julie
Quote from: Julie Marie on February 27, 2007, 10:19:54 AM
Quote from: Steph on February 26, 2007, 09:03:28 PMfolks often say, I can't, I can't I can't, when in actual fact they mean I won't... A big difference.
Steph
:eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap:
Thank you Steph! Perfectly stated!
Many years ago I was talking "can'ts" about crossdressing and being out in public. I was asked to replace "can't" with "won't" then asked which sounded more accurate. I had to be honest, "won't" was more accurate.
Life is a series of choices. We can make compromises or damn the torpedoes. If we want something badly enough there is a way. The "can't" argument is just an excuse not to act. I feared rejection the deeply. But I feared loss of the will to live even more. I made my choice and I lost a lot but I gained an inner peace I never thought I'd have.
Our lives take place in the space between our ears. We are in control if we want to be. The choice is ours to make.
Julie
Hmmmm...partially inapplicable.
Has it ever been observed how life often 'gets in the way' and tends to complicate or exacerbate an already difficult and stressful 'event' or process?
Things are more often than not perhaps, not so simple and straightforward as they seem.
If all was simply a matter of pure volitional impetus and control, it would truly be a never ending "beautiful day in the neighborhood", would it not?
But it isn't and one has out of both duty and love, obligations and responsibilities to others.
None of your loved ones want you to be miserable, even if they don't understand what it takes for you to not be.
One of the first things my sister told me after I told her was that it was pretty obvious how utterly miserable I was "people do notice you know when you're utterly miserable", you can't live your life in servitude of others because of their prejudice and misunderstanding, as a good friend once told them while I was obsessing over this "f***'em" (if they can't deal with it).
Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 26, 2007, 11:50:39 PM
Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 26, 2007, 10:00:12 PM
Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 26, 2007, 09:53:56 PM
Rhonda,
You're a kick. The bottom line is that you can get what you really want. I see kids who work at McDonalds who drive new four wheel drive trucks. Certainly, most of us have more on the ball than they do.
Cindi
Pejorative?
Nope...My comment about "You're a kick" is purely friendly. Excellent vocuabulary and deep thinker. The truck thang.... it's ....
impetus
Cindi
(cried out)
It's been a rather horrible day; emotionally devastating.
Thanx for that, Cindi. Words such as yours really help.