Susan's Place Transgender Resources

The Transangelical Church is a religious based faith and once it satisfies the requirements as defined by the government it will qualify as a non-profit organization and its members will enjoy the same rights and protections as other religious beliefs.

The Transangelical Church is a circle where all are equal.  At its core are the Heavenly Parents.  The Heavenly Parents send their love outward to the members through angelic connections.  Thus trans+angelical and the name.

The Church is all about love and acceptance.  It encourages everyone to be who they are and judges no one.

Some of the Core Beliefs of the Transangelical Church:
1. We are all creations of the Heavenly Parents.
2. The Heavenly Parents have no human qualities. They are spiritual beings. They have no bodies. They have no gender. They don't get married and have sex. They don't get angry. They are not jealous or petty. They are filled with infinite love.
3. The Angels bring that love to us in whatever quantities we desire. There are no expectations we have to give them or our Heavenly Parents anything in return. In fact whatever love we get from the Heavenly Parents, they expect we pass it on to someone else.
4. The Church believes each one of is unique. The Church discourages conformity and sameness.  It believes the only way to be everything your Heavenly Parents made you is to allow complete freedom to be yourself.
5. The Church believes we should help one another and never cause another harm. In a variation of the Golden Rule, it believes we should not do unto others that which we do not want done to us.  (That takes care of the masochist loophole.)

Feel free to add, alter, delete as you wish.  This is a community effort.

BTW, there are no leaders who interpret for the members. There are no go betweens between members and the Heavenly Parents.  No person is closer to the Heavenly Parents than another or knows them better.  This will hopefully discourage opportunists.

And once this thing gets off the ground and satisfies all the requirements, you can go out into the world presenting as you wish and if you are discriminated against you can file suit for religious discrimination. Who needs ENDA!

Okay.  Since there have been no comments, alterations or additions made to the beliefs of the Transangelical Church, I guess it's perfect just as is so we can move on to the next step.

Does this religion satisfy the definition as determined by the government?

In the U.S., the Supreme Court has interpreted religion to mean a sincere and meaningful belief that occupies in the life of its possessor a place parallel to the place held by God in the lives of other persons. The religion or religious concept need not include belief in the existence of God or a supreme being to be within the scope of the First Amendment.

I'd say, YES.

Also: The Supreme Court must look to the sincerity of a person's beliefs to help decide if those beliefs constitute a religion that deserves constitutional protection.

I'm sincere about this.  I'd actually become a member of a church like the one described above.  PASSED.

Does it have to be traditional?

In addition, a belief does not need to be stated in traditional terms to fall within First Amendment protection. The Supreme Court has deliberately avoided establishing an exact or a narrow definition of religion because freedom of religion is a dynamic guarantee that was written in a manner to ensure flexibility and responsiveness to the passage of time and the development of the United States. Thus, religion is not limited to traditional denominations.

This Church has a mix of traditional and non-traditional beliefs.  We believe in a God but not just one and not just a male God.  Of course, ancient religions believed in many Gods.  Anyway, I see no problems here.  PASSED.

So now we move to the Establishment Clause.

This prohibits the government from interfering with individual religious beliefs. The government cannot enact laws aiding any religion or establishing an official state religion. The courts have interpreted the Establishment Clause to accomplish the separation of church and state on both the national and state levels of government.

This will have to be addressed as challenges to our religion are made.

Next is the Free Exercise Clause.

This guarantees a person the right to practice a religion and propagate it without government interference. This right is a liberty interest that cannot be deprived without due process of law.

No doubt there will be some phobes who challenge our religion.  So we'll need some funds to hire an attorney when that happens.  That will most likely happen after one of our members walks into work presenting in his or her identified gender and gets fired for it.  Then the fired employee sues and the media brings this to the attention of the general public.  A phobe reads it, is appalled and some phobe organization with the words 'family values' in it challenges our religion.

But this can't be interpreted as a cult, which is the major fear many have about new religions.  There are no similarities unless someone makes them up.  And no doubt, someone will.  But we'll be ready.

One other thing, we do not require anyone to leave their old belief system, their church, their faith, to be a member.  We are open to all and in competition with none.  Look at this as a faith that fills in the gaps.  And another thing, amendments can be made to the original charter so long as a majority of the members vote them in.

Now we need some members. Who's in?

I'm in! What's not to love? In fact, that could be one of our pillar traditions or motto's.

I'm a little less okay about not needing a leader of sorts. I'd like to nominate myself as a minister, and write off all of my ministerial expenses. Gas is expensive these days, you know.
Our religion necessitates that I spend time in the community evangelizing the newly faithful. We like to meet in Mexican restaurants on 2 for 1 night!

Honestly, what in God's name, (I couldn't resist), is any different with this faith than their's?

I told Julie tonight that I was thinking this a.m. about starting a church which prays to certain billionaires. In our culture, they are God like anyway. We could write them, and ask them for donations-that way we could accomplish what the Occupy Wall Streeter's are trying to do. Oops. there I go hijacking a thread.

Anyway, I'm in. Tranangelicalism- I like it!

How much of my mony or anybody's monies do they want

Jen61

I wanna stay an atheist. Can I worship physics and math (and music as a function of these two concepts) as the embodiment of the Heavenly Parents?

I'm all for us getting rights and protections come hell or high water, by any means.

Quote from: Jen61 on October 26, 2011, 09:10:16 PM
How much of my mony or anybody's monies do they want

Jen61

If you're a billionaire or multi-millionaire, all of it.  Then we'll share what we get with the rest of the flock.

Quote from: Felix on October 27, 2011, 01:50:15 AM
I wanna stay an atheist. Can I worship physics and math (and music as a function of these two concepts) as the embodiment of the Heavenly Parents?

I'm all for us getting rights and protections come hell or high water, by any means.

The beauty of this is there are no expectations, requirements, or demands as to how you think or believe.  The core of this faith is be yourself, acceptance of self and others.  Our Heavenly Parents made each of us unique and we believe it is through this uniqueness we are best able to fulfill our potential and give back to humanity and pay forward for future generations.  Follow your heart, follow your dreams, so long as you bring harm to no one.   

At first I thought this was an offshoot of the Episcopal Church USA or the Church of England.

Quote from: SandraJane on October 27, 2011, 07:40:39 AM
At first I thought this was an offshoot of the Episcopal Church USA or the Church of England.

If you're a member of either of those churches and you present a "certain way" or are in a same sex relationship, does the church doctrine support you if you claim religious reasons for your presentation or choice of partner?

Well, love the concept! Any room for the inspired bible at all? I consider myself a "Heavenly Parent" much to the chagrin of all the "imperfect people" around here; those good 'ole folks that Southern Baptist "not-for-profit" Minister's otherwise love to cater toward so much!

Was gonna post this in response elsewhere, perhaps here is better, that way nobody can take HIGH OFFENCE at the suggestion most "transpeople" are missing their mission and calling in this life by trivializing our very "raison d'être".

Is this board even ready for this? lol We shall see!

a eunuch
[yo̅o̅′nək]
Etymology: Gk, eune, couch, echein, to guard
a male whose testicles have been destroyed or removed. If this occurs before puberty, secondary sex characteristics fail to develop, and symptoms such as a feminine voice and absence of facial hair can result from the reduced level of male hormones in the blood. See also:

Quote from: secondary sex characteristic.
n. Any of various characteristics specific to females or males but not directly concerned with reproduction at all.

Quote from: Rabbit on October 27, 2011, 03:57:38 AM. . . be ourselves and find someone who is interested in us.

And why is that? Because, sexually at least, your afraid of being alone?

Quote from: Rabbit on October 27, 2011, 03:57:38 AMIn the end, the only thing we can really do is  . . .

. . . selflessly devote ourselves to humanity in general like God intended ALL, not just "trans", to do. You have been given a great calling, but do not see it as such, and to simply content oneself with being that which you think will make you satisfied & happy "as female" is to miss the point of living the way we really should in the first place.

I am not "religious" in the least, you probably hate the breed as much as I do for sure, but in our never ending search for "validation", why we even exist, there's no better source of inspiration than the old and new testaments as "trans-humans" have been around for thousands of years and indeed have an important purpose to serve. For me it's my 2 children and the struggle against the feminist biatch (sorry!) who bore them like so many other good father's these days have to endure . . .

•Isaiah 56:3 Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord say,
"The Lord will surely separate me from his people";
and let not the eunuch say,
"Behold, I am a dry tree."
4 For thus says the Lord:
"To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,
who choose the things that please me
and hold fast my covenant,
5 I will give in my house and within my walls
a monument and a name
better than sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
that shall not be cut off.
( lol no pun intended i think! )

Quote from: Julie Marie on October 25, 2011, 10:18:44 AM
In a variation of the Golden Rule, it believes we should not do unto others that which we do not want done to us.  (That takes care of the masochist loophole.)

Except that you are still leaving masochists out.  Since masochists like pain (to some extent, anyway) then it would actually be advantageous to cause them pain (to the extent that they want it, anyway)

A better rule would be:

Do unto others as they would have you do unto them

Quote from: Kiera on October 27, 2011, 08:04:46 AM
Well, love the concept! Any room for the inspired bible at all?

Acceptance is the foundation of this belief.  However, and I guess there will have to be some rules and regulations, we will not allow someone to take things from Holy Books or ancient writings out of context nor will we allow those writings to cited in such a way as to harm another.

And our doctrine will support you should you go to work presenting in a way deemed socially unacceptable provided you identify that as who you are.  That means you can't go to work dressed like Bozo the Clown just to piss your boss off then claim religious persecution when he fires you and expect Church doctrine to support that.

Quote from: VeryGnawty on October 27, 2011, 08:13:12 AM
Except that you are still leaving masochists out.  Since masochists like pain (to some extent, anyway) then it would actually be advantageous to cause them pain (to the extent that they want it, anyway)

A better rule would be:

Do unto others as they would have you do unto them

But what if I want you to give me all your money, wait on me hand and foot, or entertain me endlessly?  Damn loopholes!  How about we examine the "cause no one harm" concept?

Quote from: Julie Marie on October 27, 2011, 08:28:12 AM
Acceptance is the foundation of this belief.  However, and I guess there will have to be some rules and regulations, we will not allow . . .  those writings to cited in such a way as to harm another.

Touché'! In other words if ya gonna quote so-called authority, invoke the true intended Spirit of The Laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_of_the_Laws), then like mama always said:

The Pensées (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pens%C3%A9es), "an (attempted) Apology for the Christian Religion which was never completed" but is still solely needed, especially today! For all ye stubborn, wanna be "athiests" out there see Pascal's Wager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager)

Quote. . . "to live as though they had faith, which may subvert their irrational passions and lead them to genuine belief".

Idols Which Beset Man's Mind (http://www.deltaxchange.com/hosting/showpost.php?p=54&postcount=1) ( lol ok ok i'll shut up! stop posting as if computer & i've been LOCKED UP for the past 5 years! )

In 1751 the Catholic Church added L'esprit des lois (Spirit of the Law) to its Index Librorum Prohibitorum ("List of Prohibited Books")

Kiera, I think you're on to something.  Anything that the Catholic Church considered prohibitive in the 18th century is a must do in today's world.  So yes, we shall invoke L'esprit des lois.  I'm likin' it!

If you want the Transangelical church to be able to preform mariages then there must be some form of certification process for those who would be ordained.

Quote from: cynthialee on October 27, 2011, 11:28:59 PM
If you want the Transangelical church to be able to preform mariages then there must be some form of certification process for those who would be ordained.

That's an easy one...

Meh, I'm not feeling Pascal's wager. I'm really fired up by and spiritual-feeling about so many everyday things that I'd rather not bother with forcing myself to believe in any deities. I don't think the universe has a personality that correlates with the human mind in such a way that we could understand it as having words and desires.

I'm not stubborn though, and I love church sometimes. I grew up in the choir, listening to the gospel, reading psalms, and it's often religious organizations that give my family food and comfort. I've been baptist, messianic jew, and catholic (with touches of voodoo and superstition), and I've explored hinduism, buddhism, and animism. I like science best. It's beautiful and inspiring to me.

I would join the Transangelical Church in a heartbeat.

The Transangelical Church really has no specific spiritual ideology and does not tell anyone what to believe about spirituality, the afterlife, or any of those other things many refer to as faith, belief and religion.  Whatever you believe is fine because the foundation of the Church is acceptance and support to be oneself. 

"We are all as unique as our fingerprints and the Church fully encourages growth of the individual spirit." 

In that statement, "spirit" is defined as that which makes us who we are.  Whether "that" comes from the personality we are born with or through life experiences, or both, depends on the individual.  No matter what "that" is, the Church accepts you for who you are and encourages your personal growth.

This isn't the first time the idea of creating a religion that allows for full freedom of expression has been discussed.  And maybe it's time a serious discussion begins to create a belief system that encourages individuality, provided no harm is caused to another.  And you can't claim your sensibilities have been harmed and expect that to qualify as personal harm.  If you use your sensibilities as a means to justify controlling someone else, maybe your sensibilities need an adjustment.   

Imagine a world where we are encouraged to focus on and grow our individual talents and reach our full potential rather than succumbing to conformity and being placed in a box.

lol this church sounds like a carbon copy of the Unitarian Universalist Church.

The Transangelical Church "doctrine"
1. We are all creations of the Heavenly Parents.
2. The Heavenly Parents have no human qualities. They are spiritual beings. They have no bodies. They have no gender. They don't get married and have sex. They don't get angry. They are not jealous or petty. They are filled with infinite love.
3. The Angels bring that love to us in whatever quantities we desire. There are no expectations we have to give them or our Heavenly Parents anything in return. In fact whatever love we get from the Heavenly Parents, they expect we pass it on to someone else.
4. The Church believes each one of is unique. The Church discourages conformity and sameness.  It believes the only way to be everything your Heavenly Parents made you is to allow complete freedom to be yourself.
5. The Church believes we should help one another and never cause another harm. In a variation of the Golden Rule, it believes we should not do unto others that which we do not want done to us.  (That takes care of the masochist loophole.)

The Unitarian Universalist "doctrine":
There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote:

    * The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
    * Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
    * Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
    * A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
    * The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
    * The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
    * Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

It may save you time and money if you just join the UU church :P (plus, they are pretty freakin awesome)

I'm in!

As far as books and or elements are concerned, I'd say go with the twelve-step doctrine.  Take what works and leave the rest.

I.E. if it helps you to connect with the spiritual and interpret your feelings, then go for it, regardless of it's source.

That would include the bible as well as the regulations for electrical engineering in commercial structures.  Whatever, works...

-Sandy

Sorry, but I'm just a little too busy with my various religious communities to join another.

I regularly attend my local Unitarian Universalist and Congregational (United Church of Christ) churches. At the UU, I just attend. But at the UCC church, I'm on the communion serving team and will be speaking to the congregation during worship one of the Sundays during Advent about being trans at that church.

I regularly sit zazen with my sangha, and in January will be beginning formal discipleship with a zen master.

Then, I've also got my solitary Pagan (Wiccan-Asatru-Eclectic) practice.

Sorry, I'm swamped.

Here's a question:

If a member of your church went to work presenting as himself or herself and was fired for doing so, would your church, church's doctrine and/or church's beliefs support them in a religious discrimination claim?

Quote from: Julie Marie on October 31, 2011, 09:19:32 AM
Here's a question:

If a member of your church went to work presenting as himself or herself and was fired for doing so, would your church, church's doctrine and/or church's beliefs support them in a religious discrimination claim?

They would do as much as they are allowed to under the Federal Guidelines of Separation of Church and State. They would help pay for a good lawyer, help you find a good counsel, provide you financially for any therapy that was required from the incident and to help with living needs until and after the courts made their decision.

The Transangelical Church would be forced under the same Federal legislation of Separation of Church and State as well and would not be directly involved in the legislation process just like any other religious church.

You would also be hard pressed to prove to the courts that your transgender status was a result and is a religious status versus the traditional medical and social status.....even if your church declared trans as a religious rite.

Before establishing the church, you should read Pastor, Church, and Law by Richard Hammar. It was required reading for me. Thicker than three front doors stacked side by side but will answer you every question regarding Federal/state/and local law and legislation with regards to religious institutions.

http://www.amazon.com/Pastor-Church-Law-Richard-Hammar/dp/1880562421/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320072669&sr=1-8 (http://www.amazon.com/Pastor-Church-Law-Richard-Hammar/dp/1880562421/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320072669&sr=1-8)
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I don't go to church. Too many ego's and personalities.

To me
God is Love
and
Love is God
and
we make a resting place in our hearts for Love/God

However, the tax write off thing is tempting but then again thats why we are in so much trouble in this world, with everyone powerful, writing off their taxes and leaving the poor in the dirt.

Where does your church help the poor or those who can't help themselves ??

Annah,

The question was more along the lines with something like this:

A transgender person who is still living and working in their birth gender role comes to the point where he/she can't live like this anymore and needs to transition.  This person goes to work and comes out to the boss.  The boss fires him/her.  There is no federal protection for trans people and in something like 80% of the states there is no state protection for trans people.  The employer is within their legal rights to fire this person on the grounds he/she is trans and exercises those rights.

The trans person wants to file a transgender discrimination claim but can't because he/she lives in a state where there is no trans protection from discrimination. 

However, this person is a member of the Transangelical Church which has explicitly stated in it's list of beliefs the need to be true to the person Our Heavenly Parents created.  In this case, that person happens to be transgender and as such is expected to follow church teachings and transition, if that is who they believe themselves to be.

So this person files a religious discrimination claim against the former employer as there is both federal and state protections for religion.

Of course, all legal fees incurred by this person would be their own responsibility.  The Church, however, would support the religious discrimination claim and provide supporting documentation, if necessary.

I really don't know of any religious organization, at the moment, that would qualify.

Yes, that is what I read out of your earlier comment.

What I am saying is you would be hard pressed to convince a judge or a jury that transsexualism is a religious rite...even if you did signed up through the states for ordination. The simple fact that not every trans will follow your religion would be enough evidence for the Judge to dismiss the case. For example, if you say you are a Christian, then chances are you identify as Christian. If you say you re a Muslim, then you are a Muslim. If you say you are an Atheist then you are an atheist. Not every trans person would be a Transangelican.  And since you developed your doctrine around trans and dressing in their gender identification as a religious expression, many trans people will disagree with that.

A group of people founded the Church of the Jedi 6 years ago. They tried to wear Jedi Robes to work and said it was protected under their religion. The judge dismissed the case and the Jedi remained fired.

Also the church would be built on a very weak foundation too in terms of practical questions under doctrine.

How would you explain to your congregants who has extreme gender dysphoria because of the way they were born that it was ordained through their Gods that this not only was suppose to happen but it is blessed by your creators to have this happen?

How would you explain to your congregants...

Like any other - and every other - church does.  I'd call it either a) a miracle (if it's good), or b) a test from god (if it sucks donkey balls).  Then I would chastise those who didn't agree as having a lack of faith or, being the spawn of Satan, or both.

It was determined a long time ago that the U.S. Government doesn't want to get in the business of deciding what is legit and what isn't when it comes to religion.  The Supreme Court has established some pretty loose ground rules for what is a religion (see the earlier posts).  As long as you satisfy those requirements, you're good to go.

On convincing the congregants, I hear that done all the time.  Kat pretty much nailed it. 

We are who we are.  What's the sense in griping about it?  Why not accept it and make the best of it.  That's the kind of talk that is commonly heard when someone faces a challenge.  And those who make the best of it are usually deemed heroes.

It isn't being trans that is our biggest challenge, it's dealing with an ignorant public who wants to deny us our rights, keep us stuffed in a hole or simply wipe us off the face of the earth.  God is not the problem, people are.

Imagine a world where you're not persecuted for who you are, where you're not pressured to conform and be someone you're not.

"Hey honey!  I was just talking to Johnny and he says he's a girl."
"Hmmm... Maybe he's transgender."
"Yeah, I was thinking the same thing."
"I'll make an appointment with the doctor so we know for sure."
"Great idea honey.  BTW, I have to pick some things up at the store, do you need anything?"

And life goes on.  That's the idea here.  Accept yourself for who you are.  Accept others for who they are.  Harm no one.  And you make this a religion simply by adding spirituality to it, which, when you view it from the perspective that we are the children of our Heavenly Parents and it is our duty to be true to them by being true to ourselves, is easy.

Before establishing the church, you should read Pastor, Church, and Law by Richard Hammar the Federal Tax Code sections on religious exemptions, that'll get ya belivin' you bet your roots Toots.  Whether your personal god is Hairy Thunderer or Cosmic Muffin let me tell you that reading that Code will convince you that the Lord Your God had the old divine hand of guidance on Congress' rod of power they day they wrote that thing. 

Hell by virtue of the State of Iowa I was granted a PhD after almost a decade of stupid intellectual gymnastic tricks, and the same State of Iowa also - because I had a piece of paper that cost me $25 bucks from some mail-order ministry and oil lube shop - granted me the right to marry my friends as a reverend of some church that never really existed, I am the Reverend Dr. Kat (thus paying homage to my two favorite preachers, Reverend Ike and Dr. Gene Scott).  So we could file the papers (with the IRS, you don't have to file anything with god, I checked) and become The First Church of the Presumptuousness Assumption of the Blinding Light anytime we want to.

And because our chief tenent is that god helps those what helps themselves (I'm thinking God Bless the Child by Billy Holiday as the opening hymn) we will always be successful.  And because we believe that in order to become one with the creator and creation you need to either a) listen to a hella lotta John Coltrane, or b) get out to the beach, forest, mountain top, sylvan meadow, or beside the Rivers of Babylon and just shut up and sit there - "No.  Shut up and sit there." - we won't have to worry about guiding anyone's spiritual progress either.

And the congregation there at The First Church of the Presumptuousness Assumption of the Blinding Light will be secure in their knowledge that when the Saint's come marchin' in, their very own Reverend Dr. Kat will NOT be in their number because the lord provided Kat with an eight-hundred mph, $65 million tax-free dollars Gulfstream G650.  Bitches.

Reverend Ike: "You Deserve the Best!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE-dXg5fChI#)

Rev. Ike makes me think, "I'm looking for a religion that won't make me feel guilty about myself."
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Quote from: tekla on November 01, 2011, 01:05:02 PM
Before establishing the church, you should read Pastor, Church, and Law by Richard Hammar the Federal Tax Code sections on religious exemptions, that'll get ya belivin' you bet your roots Toots. 

The book, Pastor, Church, and Law has the Federal Tax Code section on religious exemptions in there plus the origins and why it was created plus everything else one needs to know to create and operate a church (temple, mosque, coven, etc) within the laws of the United States.

Why ask 'why'?  The obvious answer (and I could get a hundred million people or so to chime in, is: Because the United States of America was divinely ordained by God to be the Shining City on the Hill, and a part of that luster is tax-free religion.

I wonder how many religious figures are part of the 47% of US citizens who don't pay any taxes?

Quote from: Julie Marie on November 05, 2011, 07:50:30 AM
I wonder how many religious figures are part of the 47% of US citizens who don't pay any taxes?

oh, every US religious minister has to pay taxes and I assume the percentage of them not paying taxes is very low since they are involved in organizations that do not have to pay certain taxes. They get audited fairly often.

When I was a minister for 10 years I was audited about 75% of the time. Before and after i claimed pastoral status I had never been audited.

But I am sure there are some who try to get away with it.

This is not a smart-alec comment so please make no mistake, I am just a bit confused.  The Heavenly Parents can be whomever we want them to be (Isis and Osiris, Cernunnos and Brighid, etc.)?  And who are the angels and what do they do?

This is beginning to sound like Billy Connelly's movie "The Man Who Sued God."  Connelly sues the Churches, as God's agent, when his fishing boat's loss is ruled an "Act of God" by his insurance company. The only way the Churches can win is by proving the non-existence of God. Very funny movie.

Important question re the Angels, who does their dresses?  Versace, Coco Chanel? they are both in the afterlife. 

Karen. 

Quote from: Julie Marie on November 05, 2011, 07:50:30 AM
I wonder how many religious figures are part of the 47% of US citizens who don't pay any taxes?

My soon-to-be-ex-wife is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ and I can assure you she pays taxes.

Quote from: justmeinoz on November 10, 2011, 07:18:07 AM
Important question re the Angels, who does their dresses?  Versace, Coco Chanel? they are both in the afterlife.

We could hire Bruno's mom and her gay friend (from the movie The Dress Code).  They did a great job on Bruno's angel outfit.

As far as the Church, just look at as a religious belief that supports your right to be whoever you are, and that means religious protection in the workplace and elsewhere.  The rest will take care of itself.

We believe that the lord helps them whats helps themselves, so you have to go out and do it first, then god will help you out.

Well said Reverend Kat.  Halleluiah!

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on November 10, 2011, 12:20:46 AM
This is not a smart-alec comment so please make no mistake, I am just a bit confused.  The Heavenly Parents can be whomever we want them to be (Isis and Osiris, Cernunnos and Brighid, etc.)?  And who are the angels and what do they do?

Even if you were to be a little flippant, I don't think that would be a problem. We're just kicking around ideas right now.

Hi, I think my questions were overlooked unfortunately.

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on November 10, 2011, 12:20:46 AM
The Heavenly Parents can be whomever we want them to be (Isis and Osiris, Cernunnos and Brighid, etc.)?  And who are the angels and what do they do?

Every person who believes in a "higher power", a "creator" or some other form of god has their own vision of who/what that entity is.  This is no different except there isn't just one you are required to believe in.

As I said in the OP, the angels are like messengers.  The Heavenly Parents have a lot of kids, more than the even the Duggar family (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/08/duggar-family-expecting-20-child-michelle-pregnant_n_1081530.html).  So they kinda need a nanny of sorts to help them with the kids.  In this case, a whole bunch of nannies. 

So Kreuzfidel, did I answer your questions?  If not, fire away.

The Heavenly Parents have a lot of kids, more than the even the Duggar family

But that in no way should be taken as an endorsement on the part of The First Church of the Presumptuousness Assumption of the Blinding Light for going out and whelping a litter of humans - what are they up to now?  20?^*  Really, we like to think that the vagina is not a clown car and should not be used like one.

* - look up 'Quiverfull movement ' and try to get a grip on what these people believe and why.  There, I did it for you.
http://www.google.com/search?gcx=c&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=quiverfull+movement (http://www.google.com/search?gcx=c&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=quiverfull+movement)

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on November 10, 2011, 07:31:52 PM
Hi, I think my questions were overlooked unfortunately.

Hi Kreuzfidel, I overlooked your questions because I have no idea what's going on and I don't feel comfortable driving this bus. xD

QuoteReally, we like to think that the vagina is not a clown car and should not be used like one.

I tried so hard not to laugh at that. I am such a failure.  :laugh:

Quote from: Felix on November 12, 2011, 09:13:31 PM
I have no idea what's going on and I don't feel comfortable driving this bus.

I think you're doing as good as anyone driving.  In fact the Heavenly Parents told my you should be now and forever referred to as Reverend Felix.  Can I put you on the schedule for saying mass?

I tried so hard not to laugh at that.
Wish I could take credit for it, but I see that reference in every article I read on that family.

Can I put you on the schedule for saying mass?
We stopped 'saying' mass a few years ago and switched over to 'doing' mass.  But we've even stopped that.  We wrote a Mass App for the iPhone (Droid Mass App due out next month).  We are remodeling the church now, the sacristy is going to be the new 'Bank inside a Starbucks', the rest of the ground floor is retail space - check out the new CD shop.  And the choir loft is now a brew pub with drink specials anytime any game is on anywhere, and also in months that have letters in their name.

After further review, Reverend Kat will now be referred to as Archbishop Kat.  Until we can establish a Transvatican City, I'm asking everyone to refrain from any campaigning for a Pope Kat.