When I came to the term androgyne, I was in a low place. Many ideas and assumptions I had formulated about myself and my place in the world had been proved wrong; I was entering the adult world completely unprepared and unsure and my parents were lost to the grief of losing their parents - a grief I felt myself.
After wallowing for a while, I took a fortnight off by myself looking at things I had only seen in pictures and generally being silly and irresponsible, found the term androgyne, applied for an MA in creative writing and found a place in London to move into. I started to build a new life for myself and a new conception of who I was and my place in the world.
One of the key parts of this rebuilding was that of considering myself as androgyne rather than male (or female with need of srs).
I used the idea of androgyne as part of the solution of my problems, I used it to help me build my new vision of myself. Seeing myself as androgyne helped me, it was a positive thing. True, there were complications and problems to work out, when aren't there? But being androgyne was always part of the solution and seeing myself as one kept me going.
What I don't get are the people who just seem to use it as a problem...what's going on there? What's with all the angst and arrrrgh and aggro? If being andro is giving a person something to build on, or is just an area they want to explore, what's with all the stress?
I just don't get that.
What am I hoping to achieve? I would assume it's pretty much the same as for all people. Acceptance.
I'm with you, Pica. I think it's a positive thing for me. I don't know. I wonder if there's a difference in how a person's gender affects their everyday life? I don't think much about it, honestly, but there do seem to be people here who think about it all the time. I assume for those people, it's more in their face? I don't know.
It was a solution for me as well. :-\
Quote from: Pica Pica on November 21, 2011, 05:22:09 PM
What I don't get are the people who just seem to use it as a problem...what's going on there? What's with all the angst and arrrrgh and aggro? If being andro is giving a person something to build on, or is just an area they want to explore, what's with all the stress?
I just don't get that.
Hmmm maybe not the best comparison to make...but don't read too much into this. Ya know how there are endless, countless breeds of dogs? Yet they all are only one gene difference from eachother? The Great Dane, and the Chihuahua...the same. Just one gene difference.
I think it's the same with androgynes. We come from so many walks of life, with such different life experiences, with so many vast goals, needs, desires...and little to no road map.
Some start from a pain...an itch that can't be scratched. Without a name even!! Until you stumble on it like some long lost treasure.
I think the pain comes from being someone, something....that you can't put your finger on. A gender that you don't see anywhere. For so many years I walked around missing, or misunderstanding this *vital* part of myself. Walking around with the wrong hormones fueling my body. That leaves scars. Simply put.
Now I walk thorugh a world which wrongly labels me, with every word thrown in my direction. Expectations and assumptions about who I am because of what they see...it grates a person. It wears you down...if you're inclined to care...and I am. Is it my main focus? No. That'd make me crazy. I'd lose my mind daily if that was the most important thing to me...but it is *important*...and it carries weight, and that weight can hurt.
It doesn't hurt you? Then you are very very blessed. And perhaps you're just a different breed than me...and we can't see that we're only one gene difference.
Accepting my androgyn identity has meant the world. It's saved me. It's stabilized me and brought me a measure of peace. It does...as I say...leave scars thought. Or...it can.
Quote from: Jaimey on November 21, 2011, 11:57:35 PM
I'm with you, Pica. I think it's a positive thing for me. I don't know. I wonder if there's a difference in how a person's gender affects their everyday life? I don't think much about it, honestly, but there do seem to be people here who think about it all the time. I assume for those people, it's more in their face? I don't know.
It was a solution for me as well. :-\
Me too,finding out what i really am has taken all my stress and pain away.Its something i`m grateful for,though i really do feel for those who are`nt as fortunate.I guess it depends on whether you want to come out and tell people what you are and be accepted by them.Me ,i hav`nt told anybody,i just carry on being the new me.If someone does`nt like the way i look/act or do things,screw them.
Quote from: Jaimey on November 21, 2011, 11:57:35 PM
I'm with you, Pica. I think it's a positive thing for me. I don't know. I wonder if there's a difference in how a person's gender affects their everyday life? I don't think much about it, honestly, but there do seem to be people here who think about it all the time. I assume for those people, it's more in their face? I don't know.
It was a solution for me as well. :-\
Quote from: Teema on November 22, 2011, 03:45:20 AM
Me too,finding out what i really am has taken all my stress and pain away.Its something i`m grateful for,though i really do feel for those who are`nt as fortunate.I guess it depends on whether you want to come out and tell people what you are and be accepted by them.Me ,i hav`nt told anybody,i just carry on being the new me.If someone does`nt like the way i look/act or do things,screw them.
Me three :icon_exclaim:
It's always been very positive for me.
Count me on the positive side too. It took a while to settle into it -- and my family had an easier time adjusting to the idea than I did -- but it's helped me understand and accept myself.
I have a lot of inner, abstract, personal stuff I don't try to explain to the world but do express it through music, art etc. Gender is one of those, and that's a comfortable place for me.
I'm still inhibited enough not to wear or say certain things when I want to, but as personal problems go that's pretty mild. I don't have a need to dress up if I can express myself otherwise, or simply remember who I am. I don't have a need for a different body, even if I am occasionally wistful. I don't feel uncomfortable being called "sir" because the reasons people make that assumption are obvious. I would like society to recognize and respect nonbinary people, but I have never been personally threatened or harmed over it. I realize this makes me one of the lucky ones, and I'm not going to feel guilty for that.
I could be a little more outspoken on trans rights and social acceptance. I don't quite feel legit calling myself trans simply because I haven't shared in the suffering, but I don't know if that's a silly attitude or not. I am a silly person though so that's okay.
Quote from: Jaimey on November 21, 2011, 11:57:35 PM
but there do seem to be people here who think about it all the time. I assume for those people, it's more in their face? I don't know.
Most days i dont give it a moments thought, however only takes a "trigger" to set off a nuclear explosion, can spend days,weeks or months, with it in your face 24/7, both sides of me battling it out to gain superiority, torn between what i want to do and what i should do, ya wonder why anyone can possibly like you, when you dont even like yourself, go to bed half wishing not to wake up the next morning and on occasions things get so bad, that killing off both sides does look quite tempting. Dont help when you feel you have no one to turn to and even if you did what you want to say would confuse the most willing of listeners.After a while calmness restores and you clamber within, through the fall out looking for the pieces you need to pick yourself up to carry on till the next time "she" returns and the whole depressing process is repeated.
Must admit, prior to September i thought i was "cured" as its been quite a quiet year, then went into one of the biggest black holes ive ever been in. Things very much settled at the moment and just have one wish that this state of mind lasts for a very long time, as i dont want to go back "there" again.
It's largely a positive thing for me. It means knowing who I am, and accepting my differences as differences rather than brokenness. However, it's still painful. It means knowing why I've always felt so uncomfortable in my body, and needing to change that more than ever, and knowing that I can't do that yet. I guess the difference might be whether one experiences dysphoria? The identity isn't the source of my pain, the disconnect between mind and body is.
I'm not a label-user myself, but when I accepted even just my physical being as androgynous things got better for me. I look androgynous - almost always have (except for when I was a kid when I was always taken as male) - so it's just a fact of my life. It's part of the whole of who I am.
Am I trying to achieve anything other than just truly being myself and to be comfortable with myself? I'm not sure. I don't think so.
I lalways knew I was Different but never had the words to explain what was different about me as a teen I had worked out that it was a gender thing but because of my medical problems I didn't have the energy to expolor when the medical crap had eased and I found the word Androgyne it was very freeing for me then I found this forum and I know I'm not the only one and I've broken out of my shell and stopped trying to be what I know I'm not. Before finding Androgyne I was lost with no hope of being me. But the finding of the word was the start of me being me so it was a positive experience while other labels may fit a little better I have no intention of leaving the Androgyne label behind.
I'm not talking labels, I'm talking tools.
finding this term on this forum really was a great relief to me. there is only one thing i hate more than making decisions, and that is being unable to make a decision. i was starting to freak out for real trying to decide on ftm or not, when i found the answer i needed, and the acceptance i found here has meant a lot to me. actually some few words i got from Ativan can be said to have saved my soul (i'll be forever grateful to them) by showing me the way to self acceptance, which no person before had been able to show me
having figured it out, i don't really feel like "achieving" much. i already got the answer, now i just need time to see if adjustments need to be made, or not. i'm lucky to have gotten started on my life as myself already three years before this last piece of the puzzle was found. got a friend who sees me as the person i am, and after that i've been feeling more alive than in a far too long time
my current problems have mostly to do with my mother, but those have to do with so much other than just the trans issues which i haven't mentioned to her yet. knowing who i am has made me more confident, i'm not as easily hurt or offended by her as i used to be, and i haven't even broken any dishes since...
Quote from: Pica Pica on November 24, 2011, 12:10:50 PM
I'm not talking labels, I'm talking tools.
What tools do you speak of
for me the knowledge that there are others like me has enabled me to break out of the social prision cell that is being male.
without being put into the cell of Female but escaping the whole social binary Prison system
sounds like a tool well used then.
The fact you find their were others like you hasn't straight-jacketed and padded celled you into some tiny box you can't get out of then?
the most important thing i found here was acceptance for the person i am. so even if i'm not exactly like any of you other people in this place, it feels really good to be with other people who are not like "everybody else" (binary). i've still not decided if "androgyne" really is the right label for me, but it is good to use in order to not feel all alone in the world, and i like the people who gather around this label here
so for me i could say that the label is a good tool which has helped me a lot. but the reason why i need this tool still hasn't gone away completely, so i might have to complain about things being difficult once in a while
Quote from: Julian on November 23, 2011, 02:38:16 PM
It's largely a positive thing for me. It means knowing who I am, and accepting my differences as differences rather than brokenness. However, it's still painful.
I think this pretty much sums it up for me. Some days are better than others.
Two months ago I had a great job, was studying at night on a renowed college, was living with my father in a huge condo and driving my beloved car (may it rest in pieces now).
And almost every weekend I drove about five hours to another city to spend two days with my most beloved friends.
I was happy per say. I lead a good life, was starting to build a carreer but I felt that itch, like I was doing it all for nothing. I simply worked my ass off, studied my ass off but in the core of all this "happy life" I felt like I was rotten.
I couldnt be myself at home, couldnt be spontaneous at work. I delivered, that was good enough for them, but my position demanded a bit of social engineering in order to be productive, so I had to wear masks all the time, and I didn't like that at all.
And in the college I couldnt find a single sould with which I could identify myself with and attempt to start a friendship.
I had to lie to almost everyone I spent my day with, putting up masks and saying I was ok even when I wanted to just stay at home and sleep.
I felt empty.
And one day, driving back from my friend's place, I almost hit a dog while going at 60mph. I dodged it, lost control of the car and flipped it twice. I almost died, the car was totaled. All I got was a bruised ankle and a black eye (miraculously).
When I got back home, I kept asking myself why I was still living with my father and pretending to be someone I'm not just for his sake.
I was alive, practically given another opportunity to start again.
I decided to quit my job and move closer to those two friends, who gave me so much support. I love them dearly, they are the family I wish I had born into.
I just finished moving in, I'm allready looking for a job and I'm planning on starting german classes. But what makes me happier is that I am learning to lose all those masks and act as myself.
I feel like I'm a new person, sometimes I get confused and don't know what to do because I'm not very used to being spontaneous in public, and those two friends notice it and help me out whenever they can.
I feel happier now, and a bit wiser as well. I learned alot these past few months. I'm far from being an accomplished person, but I feel happy with the decisions I made. I feel like I have more energy to pursue my plans now.
And I'm also getting to know myself better, learn what I like and dislike about myself, about my concepts, ideas and behaviour and trying to become a better person.
I learned to value my life after almost losing it. I wish I could post some pictures of the state of the car so you guys could see how bad the crash was. I really was born again after that.
I'm now comfortable with saying I'm bisexual/androginous and defining myself as that as well. I met new people and it felt so great to say that I was bi instead of wearing any masks and steering away from the subject..
Hi Khan
It certainly sounds as though you've found your happy place, there's not many things more difficult in life than living a lie. This will make perfect sense to anyone suffering from gender issues. Unless it's a car wreck of course ;) I have discovered to my cost that I am a little allergic to car and bike crashes, I also struggle with fire and sharp objects but so far none of them came even close to making me a miserable and confused as did my gender conflict did. I'm not a fan of labels either but realising that gender isn't black and white as was first thought has helped me get happy in my skin. I consider myself quite lucky in some ways to be in the middle. Once I realised I didn't fit any moulds and didn't need to my existence became quite comfortable, it's easy being in the middle from the outside my appearance isn't too different from before.... well maybe a bit ;) but the only people who comment are the ones who haven't seen me for a few years and they are just amazed at how young I look these days, it's a pleasure :)
Hi Khan,really glad for you.The only way is up! :)
Well, i was definitely not in a good place at all when i found this forum, but just the first few replies here made a feel a lot less alone.
I think what i want to achieve is to feel more in balance with my life, not trying to live a lie, because that was okay for a while, but it wasn't sustainable. I'm still in an "angsty" place with a lot of anger that's been building up for years, but i don't want to keep that, i want to let that all go and be more... me, lol. So i hope actually allowing myself to be will help me with all this pent up frustration and will help me fight depression, because I don't want to be depressed again. I think i'm beating it though. But i think the stress i'm currently under at work and at home really aren't helping.
androgyne is a lable and i'm not one for these lables, but as things go, it's better than me describing myself as male. that would really put me in a bad place worrying endlessly about how i'll never manage to pass, can't put nature right, etc. It's more chilled out if I don't put pressures like that on myself. and hell, I really don't think i'm 100% male anyway. Knowing that trans* is a spectrum is increadibly comforting because yeah, I could never be 100% or the other, even in an ideal world in which I could just switch my body to be how I want it to be with the snip of my fingers, lol.
I want to chat about this side of me online so i can get my head around it more, as i keep finding layers to my gender identity the more i can explore it online. and hear about other people's experiences to compare to my own and to feel less alone. and i think just knowing there are 'safe' places i can chat about it without worrying about being judged.
there's more, but this is long and rambly as it is.
Well, as with many things it's a double edged sword. There is pain associated with dysphoria, coming out, trying to find a place in a world where someone can hate you just for this. But at the same time, finding the forest has given me a lot of comfort. Reminding myself that I am androgyne, and that it is valid and there are others, gives me comfort that I had lost for a number of years trying to fit into a binary. Sometimes when I feel like I'm losing my mind, just stepping on here can make it better.
Teema, smooth.. thanks alot.
Another thing that I noticed since I moved is that I don't put up masks when people ask me what I think about something. I used to try and say as close as what I thought they wanted to hear, now I just speak my mind out. Of course I try to be nice and avoid hurting people, and I allways learned to ask what they wanted to hear: if it was my honest opinion or what they "hope to hear". I learned that I can be completely honest with those I love and, if the feeling is mutual, they will accept and understand. (By love I mean something closer to a very close friendship, as I don't have a lover/mate right now and I feel like I don't need it to be happy).
I also realised that I don't need to fit in any mould like Smooth said. I am me, I don't need to fit in any group, the group must understand that I am that way and that I will evolve the way I want to evolve, not the way they expect me to.
That is the best part of a true friendship: not building up any expectations, learning to just enjoy the current moment the best you can with those you love and look forward for those moments.
I'm still dealing with what I am, learning to break my masks and be truly hones with myself and those around me, but I know now that the friends I hold dear were and still are essential to that. A willing shoulder and an honest mind to tell what they think is essential to help you going through any obstacles you might find.
I might be sounding a bit confusing right now... I'll probably explain it better as soon as I think of a better and simpler way to say what I mean XD
I like the descriptor gender fluid.
Like Pica, I love writing, a I usually end up in a creative writing or literature class or two every semester. In fact, my English degree will be wrapped this go around.
Asides aside, being suffocated by the binary harms my understanding of how the world works. I like this corner of the gender world because I can easily change genders multiple times in a single conversation, and as long as they go with female, or they just give up and be nice, I'm okay. No box is optimal.