So one thing that makes me think I may not be trans* is the extent to which I follow lesbian content. I watch Sophie/Sian scenes from UKs Coronation Street on YouTube, watch Pretty Little Liars because of Emily, Greys Anatomy for Callie and Arizona, and of course Glee with Santana/Brittany (they're the only thing I like about that show anymore). I also check AfterEllen and Autostraddle all day everyday for any updates. Does anyone else do this?
I lived in the lesbian community for over twenty years --- it's the first place that I felt it was okay to be myself -- I could dress like a man and be butch and nobody said anything. I still follow lesbian news --- I sit on a board for nonprofit that fights for gay & lesbian rights.
I feel so more connected to the lesbian community than the hetrosexual community -- hence I don't saw I am a straight man I say I am queer. My wife still identifies as a lesbian.
I think it's hard to give up a community that is so accepting of folks
I don't but I followed the L Word (until Max was on). That was when I was really early in my transition.
The lesbian community here was not accepting of me and was really super trans misogynistic.
I used to do this well before I came out as trans and before I'd dated several lesbian girls & realized that their community was completely different than the one I actually identified with. I mean, I knew I felt more like a guy, but I think it takes actually being with lesbian girls to know that it doesn't feel right to be dated as a girl and that it probably never will.
Are you isolated from any sort of LGBT(QIA) community? If you are, perhaps seeking out lesbians could reflect on you being attracted to women (and them being attracted to women) and you're not able to relate to many people who were born female in that way. I dunno. Regardless, being trans has nothing to do with whether you follow lesbians or not, but more as if you feel as if you are born into the wrong body and feel like you can be more comfortably categorized as male. Transguys are still more than capable of liking lesbians, just as much as cisguys are.
:]
I still feel connected to the lesbian community although I wouldn't identify myself as a lesbian. I think, for me, having the experience of being female-bodied and liking women and taking all that comes with it (the good, like liberation, but also the bad, like homophobia) does create a sense of connection.
Hey guys thanks for the quick replies. I've never liked the word lesbian for myself and identified as gay and now as queer. I feel what you're saying Jason. I actually hooked up with this lesbian chick on a party bus a couple weeks ago. I was all for touching her everywhere but when she was trying to get her hand down my pants or up my binder (I wonder what she thought of that "extreme sports bra" lol), I would freeze up or pull her hand away. I never called her because I wasn't sure I was what she was looking for but didn't know how to say it. I live with 3 gay guys, 1 straight, and one who's kinda bi (but not at all my type). I do want to find some gay female friends though, at the very least to expand my queer social circle. But I live in orange county so.. Yea.. I mean I found the room I rent on Craig's and just got lucky finding a gay friendly space with really cool people.
I never been in the lesbian comunety only GLBTQ as in general. but I think lesbians are cute,
in someways im so jelous of lesbians because girl love for me seams more---- pure... where guys are more pervy..
I know girls can be perverted.
Kameron -
As much as I want girls to touch my chest, I know I have to pull them away. I honestly just want to feel a woman's touch on my bare flesh, but then I remember that I'm ashamed of that part of my body. As for me, it doesn't matter what a girl's sexuality is as long as she learns to like me and accept me for who I am. This has nothing to do with "lesbian sources", but more of the disdain towards labels...since their connotations aren't a "one size, fits all" anyway. I just like female identified femmes in general; I have a type and it seems you might too, so it's likely not that you think "lesbians" are pretty, but maybe the way certain types of people who happen to be lesbians dress or present themselves visually. I don't know. Everyone is different is basically what I'm saying. :]
:(
I want to follow and work with this conversation but it's upsetting me where I'm not able to piece together what I want to say. So...taking a break but want to talk.
There's a fairly large LGBT community where I live, but tragically it's mostly college-aged lesbians who have moved here to attend the local university on their parents dime. They seemed to have formed their own little cliche and are rather judgmental. They also are lacking in the personal hygiene department so I tend to stay away from them. Sometimes it's so bad you can still smell their body odor 5-7ft away. Most of them graduate within 5-6 years with a degree in gender or feminist studies and then continue to live on their parents dimes until they either A) get evicted for noise violations and property destruction by their landlord or B) their parents stop paying for them to live here, so they move back home.
It's really just a cycle here, every few years there's a new stinky batch.
Natkat, I know what you mean. Even though I can be a bit of a horn-dog I'm a romantic at heart and love how sweet some of the character couples I follow can be. And mostly it's because I think the actresses are hot as ->-bleeped-<- lol.
No worries Nygeel whenever you find the words jump right in :)
Jason I'm with you on the female id'd femmes. I haven't been with anyone since my first girlfriend when I was 19 (I'm 23) so it's been hard for me to gauge what I'm really comfortable with. Back then I wasnt vocal about what I was okay with but did what I could to relax regardless of what she was doing to me, I just wanted to get off. Topping her always made me feel incredible, though.
Epi, when I first tried college a lot of the lesbian community was like that which sucked just because we had nothing in common and the attraction wasn't there.
Whenever I've been in a situation where I should be trying to meet girls like at a bar or Pride or whatever, there always this voice in the back of my head that holds me back wondering if she's even into girls that look like boys and would she let me woo her like guys woo girls in movies and on tv? and would she be okay if I kept my briefs on and maybe even a shirt if we hooked up or could I handle taking my shirt off? Maybe yes no maybe I don't know. Ugh either my life is complicated or I over complacate my life.
I know a few transitioned people IRL who still seem to be very emotionally invested in the lesbian communities here. Some folks go to concerts by bands popular with lesbians, they sometimes go to the women's festival (maybe to promote trans awareness?), and they sometimes eat at principally lesbian hangouts (but other people go there, too).
I have never really understood this, but people do what they are comfortable with--I have my own little quirks. An investment in the lesbian community doesn't necessarily mean that you aren't trans. That would mean that my acquaintances have transitioned by mistake! But after five or ten years, this seems unlikely.
Arch, yea I was gonna say for example I like the band Sick of Sarah and really want to see them live. But I'm not really invested in the lesbian community in that I'm not involved in the lgbt community at all. I hang out with my straight male roomie and my straight brother mostly. And then we go to gay bars (usually with all men) with our other roommates cause he has a girlfriend anyways. Sometimes I think my problem is that I'm so binary minded in regards to gender when maybe I'm genderqueer (though some T effects are appealing).
Quote from: Kameron on December 21, 2011, 07:11:12 PM
Epi, when I first tried college a lot of the lesbian community was like that which sucked just because we had nothing in common and the attraction wasn't there.
Whenever I've been in a situation where I should be trying to meet girls like at a bar or Pride or whatever, there always this voice in the back of my head that holds me back wondering if she's even into girls that look like boys and would she let me woo her like guys woo girls in movies and on tv? and would she be okay if I kept my briefs on and maybe even a shirt if we hooked up or could I handle taking my shirt off? Maybe yes no maybe I don't know. Ugh either my life is complicated or I over complacate my life.
It seems the lesbians change every few years but how they act doesn't. It's really just one big party to them and it's a huge annoyance to me that my towns queer community seems as if it was scripted from the L-Word (+hepatitis). There's some older gay men and a fairly good size transgender population, but it seems the MtF's are shunned and the FtM's associated with the University just hang out with the college lesbians.
The main reason I never watched the L-Word is because I can just go downtown and see it live myself. (Yes, I take hand sanitizer with me.)
Quote from: Epi on December 21, 2011, 08:39:20 PM
There's some older gay men and a fairly good size transgender population, but it seems the MtF's are shunned and the FtM's associated with the University just hang out with the college lesbians.
The number 1 reason why I disliked the lesbian community was the trans misogyny and seeing trans men as butch + or some type of hot type of person while trans women are seen as super conservative and perverts.
There's also problems I have with trans men who are attracted to women as identifying as queer. It sounds like not validating your gender or wanting "it all."
I do! I watch shows like Pretty Little Liars and Glee for the queer women (though I'm also interested in the gay guys :D) and Autostraddle is basically the best website ever. Like you, I wondered if this was a sign; but I really don't think that's the case anymore. By following lesbian culture I could finally fit in and be masculine without anyone judging me for it. :)
Quote from: Nygeel on December 21, 2011, 08:59:19 PM
There's also problems I have with trans men who are attracted to women as identifying as queer. It sounds like not validating your gender or wanting "it all."
This actually doesn't bother me. I can understand and respect that some people don't fall into or identify with the gender binary system or prefer to use the umbrella term "queer" to identify themselves. (It's like saying, I enjoy apples, without specifying if you prefer Fuji or Granny Smith.) I also don't think dating a queer woman makes a trans (or cis man for that matter) less of a man because of their choice in partner. But I do think it creates some separation; whether intentional or not, between transmen who don't identify as such or socialize in those "cliches" and "communities".
Quote from: Epi on December 21, 2011, 09:09:32 PM
This actually doesn't bother me. I can understand and respect that some people don't fall into or identify with the gender binary system or prefer to use the umbrella term "queer" to identify themselves. (It's like saying, I enjoy apples, without specifying if you prefer Fuji or Granny Smith.) I also don't think dating a queer woman makes a trans (or cis man for that matter) less of a man because of their choice in partner. But I do think it creates some separation; whether intentional or not, between transmen who don't identify as such or socialize in those "cliches" and "communities".
No...I'm talking about a trans man who dates women and only women being queer. It just seems like a guy that likes only women is pretty straight. Plus there are queer trans men who are attracted to men...which IMO makes sense. Plus being a trans man is binary.
There is also trans men that know they're trans, identify as men, but still think they should still be allowed in women's only spaces. There was a "women only" event where it was only for people AFAB...and really a cis guy could go in and pretend to be a trans man.
Quote from: Nygeel on December 21, 2011, 09:21:18 PM
No...I'm talking about a trans man who dates women and only women being queer. It just seems like a guy that likes only women is pretty straight. Plus there are queer trans men who are attracted to men...which IMO makes sense. Plus being a trans man is binary.
There is also trans men that know they're trans, identify as men, but still think they should still be allowed in women's only spaces. There was a "women only" event where it was only for people AFAB...and really a cis guy could go in and pretend to be a trans man.
Sometimes things aren't really a matter of understanding, but more so accepting. While you and I may not completely get or be able to relate to other individuals, it's not really our place to project an "identity" onto someone if they fall within these "certain parameters" regardless of how they identify personally.
Transmen identifying as men but still wanting access to womyn only events is an each his own thing to me; example: Mich. Womyn's Festival. I think it's a great thing and also a sad thing these types of segregated spaces exist. A lot of individuals are too concerned with race, religion, ethnicity, sex, gender, orientation, etc; that they fail to see that all problems are human problems that affect everyone; directly and indirectly.
Even if I don't completely agree with a person, I'm going to accept them for who they are (queer, bi, trans, cis, unicorns, furry) because I wish to receive the same treatment in return without judgment or prejudice.
->-bleeped-<- Mich Fest and trans misogynist bull sh*t.
Quote from: Nygeel on December 21, 2011, 09:50:26 PM
->-bleeped-<- Mich Fest and trans misogynist bull sh*t.
Some people would agree with you, some would disagree. But I do believe you are above this petty comment and have just made it out of anger towards what you see as inequalities.
Now, I'm quite curious and must ask, do you think the Mich. Fest needs more specific/rigid guidelines or a more liberal attendee policy? What would you do differently Nygeel?
Quote from: Epi on December 21, 2011, 09:55:51 PM
Some people would agree with you, some would disagree. But I do believe you are above this petty comment and have just made it out of anger towards what you see as inequalities.
Now, I'm quite curious and must ask, do you think the Mich. Fest needs more specific/rigid guidelines or a more liberal attendee policy? What would you do differently Nygeel?
I would end it. There have been trans women outed, and overall treated like crap by cis women. It's a horrible event.
Quote from: Nygeel on December 21, 2011, 10:11:19 PM
I would end it. There have been trans women outed, and overall treated like crap by cis women. It's a horrible event.
I'm aware of the festivals history and past issues. In a lot of situations while something maybe have some negatives to it, sometimes the positives so greatly outweigh the negatives that most people are willing to overlook that. (Examples: Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Salvation Army)
What would you replace it with Nygeel? An event open to all people featuring LGBT artists or ...? It'd be a pity to be -1 for LGBT events, even if it wasn't that great of an event to start with. While the directors may be prejudice it doesn't necessarily imply that the attendees share that sentiment.
Quote from: Epi on December 21, 2011, 10:18:58 PM
I'm aware of the festivals history and past issues. In a lot of situations while something maybe have some negatives to it, sometimes the positives so greatly outweigh the negatives that most people are willing to overlook that. (Examples: Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Salvation Army)
What would you replace it with Nygeel? An event open to all people featuring LGBT artists or ...? It'd be a pity to be -1 for LGBT events, even if it wasn't that great of an event to start with. While the directors may be prejudice it doesn't necessarily imply that the attendees share that sentiment.
Salvation Army says gays should be celibate, girl scouts has accepted trans girls. There's been a whole lot of negatives and violence against trans women due to Mich fest.
It isn't an LGBT event. It's a trans misogynistic, cissexist event that claims to be feminist but isn't for all women. It serves cis lesbians MAYBE. The attendees have been a-holes. There have been websites with names, pictures, and other information about trans women who have attended. Not. Cool.
Quote from: Nygeel on December 21, 2011, 10:27:18 PM
Salvation Army says gays should be celibate, girl scouts has accepted trans girls. There's been a whole lot of negatives and violence against trans women due to Mich fest.
It isn't an LGBT event. It's a trans misogynistic, cissexist event that claims to be feminist but isn't for all women. It serves cis lesbians MAYBE. The attendees have been a-holes. There have been websites with names, pictures, and other information about trans women who have attended. Not. Cool.
So you would replace it with absolutely nothing? You have very strong opinions about this event. Did you attend one year and experience any discrimination?
Quote from: Epi on December 21, 2011, 10:37:08 PM
So you would replace it with absolutely nothing? You have very strong opinions about this event. Did you attend one year and experience any discrimination?
I was forced to attend a fund raising event for them, and think trans misogyny is unacceptable.
Pertaining to the OP, I have never identified as a lesbian nor participated in the lesbian community, so I don't follow events specific to lesbians per se. However I am invested in GLBTTIQ rights and news and I identify as a heterosexual man - does that then make me gay, bi, lesbian, etc? As has already been said, you can be trans and still be invested in lesbian news and events.
Quote from: Nygeel on December 21, 2011, 10:42:26 PM
I was forced to attend a fund raising event for them, and think trans misogyny is unacceptable.
I believe the consensus on the forums is that any type of misogyny or prejudice is unacceptable. But if given the opportunity to cancel the festival and start a different one, what would you do?
Completely ridding of something without offering an acceptable substitute doesn't seem to be more or less positive and/or negative when weighing in all the factors than if it would remain. There aren't many venues featuring female artists at such a large scale, removing that would in an essence keep most of them performing small shows at bars and dance halls, less accessible to the public at large. But please don't take this as if I'm disagreeing with your opinion of the Mich. Festival (there's no denying the misogyny), I just think the main premise of having a festival for female artists shouldn't be completely tossed aside because of poor management; the ones who "dictate" what "type" of individual
may attend and who may not.
I mean really, where will Le Tigre play? ???
Quote from: Epi on December 21, 2011, 11:03:59 PM
I believe the consensus on the forums is that any type of misogyny or prejudice is unacceptable. But if given the opportunity to cancel the festival and start a different one, what would you do?
Completely ridding of something without offering an acceptable substitute doesn't seem to be more or less positive and/or negative when weighing in all the factors than if it would remain. There aren't many venues featuring female artists at such a large scale, removing that would in an essence keep most of them performing small shows at bars and dance halls, less accessible to the public at large. But please don't take this as if I'm disagreeing with your opinion of the Mich. Festival (there's no denying the misogyny), I just think the main premise of having a festival for female artists shouldn't be completely tossed aside because of poor management; the ones who "dictate" what "type" of individual may attend and who may not.
I mean really, where will Le Tigre play? ???
Le Tiger isn't around any more.
Bring back Lilith Fair, get rid if Mich Fest. The issue is that the groups that perform might not realize it but they are supporting trans misogyny as are almost all of the festival goers. It's not something that can be changed because the a-holes attending are the problem as well as the management and others.
Ugh, Le Tigre is such a touchy subject for me.
Quote from: Nygeel on December 21, 2011, 11:09:58 PM
Le Tiger isn't around any more.
Bring back Lilith Fair, get rid if Mich Fest. The issue is that the groups that perform might not realize it but they are supporting trans misogyny as are almost all of the festival goers. It's not something that can be changed because the a-holes attending are the problem as well as the management and others.
Ugh, Le Tigre is such a touchy subject for me.
How are the festival goers just as misogynistic as the management if they do not dictate the festivals policies and are subject to them as well? (I understand
some people may share the same prejudice as management, but isn't assuming that almost all of the attendees do a hasty generalization?)
Le Tigre played a show in the UK back in October says their tour date list. From what I can see they're still performing, but not very often and only in dive bars and concert halls. :'(
Also, Lilith Fair was revived in 2010. :D But unable to come back in 2011 because of bad ticket sales. :'(
I was talking to one of the counsellors at my local LGBTIQ group on Tuesday. One of his friends has just returned from the Michigan Fest. and apparently there were a lot of workshops and discussions on trans issues. It appears it may be changing. Someone commented to her that 20 years ago all the talk was about whether Bisexual women should be allowed to attend. ???
Back to the OP. It makes sense to me that you would stay in touch with a part of the community that you belonged to for an important period of your life. I still read news items about place I haven't lived in for years.
Karen.
Why does this happen to threads? I just wanted to know who likes to follow lesbian news and entertainment, that's it. I wasn't talking about women only spaces, I have no interest in these places I'm just talking about the stuff I look up online. Thank you to everyone sticking with the topic I started and trying to help me out.
Kameron, it's because people are jaded and can't get over "personal connotations" with a particular topic. It's really ridiculous, because it has nothing to do with what you were asking at all...nor did you mention any of those organizations. Weird, huh?
I'm sorry this had to happen to your thread though.
Quote from: Kameron on December 22, 2011, 12:52:43 PM
Why does this happen to threads? I just wanted to know who likes to follow lesbian news and entertainment, that's it. I wasn't talking about women only spaces, I have no interest in these places I'm just talking about the stuff I look up online. Thank you to everyone sticking with the topic I started and trying to help me out.
Tends to happen a lot on the internet.
Thanks Jason and yup Darrin it definitely does. Oh well lol.
Quote from: Kameron on December 21, 2011, 08:34:15 PM
Arch, yea I was gonna say for example I like the band Sick of Sarah and really want to see them live. But I'm not really invested in the lesbian community in that I'm not involved in the lgbt community at all. I hang out with my straight male roomie and my straight brother mostly. And then we go to gay bars (usually with all men) with our other roommates cause he has a girlfriend anyways. Sometimes I think my problem is that I'm so binary minded in regards to gender when maybe I'm genderqueer (though some T effects are appealing).
Dare I say it...you seem perfectly "normal" to me. :laugh:
Quote from: Nygeel on December 21, 2011, 09:21:18 PM
Plus being a trans man is binary.
I didn't know you were the identity police.
Quote from: Kameron on December 22, 2011, 12:52:43 PM
Why does this happen to threads? I just wanted to know who likes to follow lesbian news and entertainment, that's it. I wasn't talking about women only spaces, I have no interest in these places I'm just talking about the stuff I look up online. Thank you to everyone sticking with the topic I started and trying to help me out.
That's how discussions tend to work, both online and irl.
But on the subject of the OP, I never really followed news sites or things like that. I read fanfic but when I started working and going to school all the time I really just didn't have time for it though sometimes I will try to read a little, I usually don't get too far though. :/
I ID'd as a lesbian for a very short period of time, so I was never involved with the community, but I still read some lesbian news. But it's about the same rate I read any other news, which is rarely. Many of my "OTPs" (one true pairing) are lesbian couples: Alex and Paige from Degrassi, Emily and Naomi from Skins, Santana and Brittany from Glee (close second to Kurt/Blaine), among others.
To be honest, I don't think about it that much. I don't think it makes me any less male, trans, or gay to read news or watch shows about lesbians. If it's interesting and enjoyable, I don't care whether it's LGBT or not.
Also, it's the internet.
Never identified lesbians, don't like lesbians due to bad experiences, never will be interested in women. Most of them were feminists, too, in the awful way.
Also, should you guys really take some festival seriously that doesn't even spell women properly? Seriously, womyn? Is this some kind of feminist circle that goes "I HATE MEN SO BADLY"?
God, feminists make me want to puke.
Quote from: Kameron on December 22, 2011, 12:52:43 PM
Why does this happen to threads? I just wanted to know who likes to follow lesbian news and entertainment, that's it. I wasn't talking about women only spaces, I have no interest in these places I'm just talking about the stuff I look up online. Thank you to everyone sticking with the topic I started and trying to help me out.
I think this is just a generational difference we have, I know who Rachel Maddow is and what the L-Word is, I'm just not very glued to a TV. Now, I do follow news pertaining to lesbian music artists. If you didn't want events that host lesbian artists discussed maybe you should have specified you didn't want people discussing events or news involving lesbians who are born womyn.
I think I was pretty clear what I wanted out of this topic. It certainly wasn't to argue the pros and cons of the michigan womyns festival. But next time you think about being antagonizing, remember this is a support forum. Thank you to everyone staying on topic, like Adio with the OTPs and Andy about the fanfics. I tend to over-think everything and I'm really into the entertainment industry and tv production as a career, plus I thought I was a girl into girls for almost a decade so those interests aren't going to go away quickly I suppose.
Getting back to the OP, I've always found the lesbian community to be warm, welcoming, and comfortable. But I've never felt like a part of it, even when I was more into women. Being a lesbian is all about being female, which is something I can't relate to.
Re: the question about following lesbian entertainment - I don't think what you watch or read necessarily says anything about who you are, so don't over-think it.
Quote from: Brian on December 21, 2011, 09:03:20 PM
I do! I watch shows like Pretty Little Liars and Glee for the queer women (though I'm also interested in the gay guys :D) and Autostraddle is basically the best website ever. Like you, I wondered if this was a sign; but I really don't think that's the case anymore. By following lesbian culture I could finally fit in and be masculine without anyone judging me for it. :)
I just realized I think I forgot to acknowledge your response before! But thank you this is exactly what I was looking for lol. PLL is an awesome mystery all by itself and Autostraddle really covers a wide variety of Queer :)