I fall into an atypical category in the transgender spectrum: I self identify as having ->-bleeped-<- (->-bleeped-<-). Some may dismiss that ->-bleeped-<- exists and that the the guy who coined the term is whack. The word certainly fits me in every way, so I will continue to use it.
->-bleeped-<- means that I get sexually aroused by imagining myself as a woman. Ever since my earliest memories, I would fantasize about becoming a woman and enjoyed wearing women's clothes. In kindergarten during nap time, I would day dream about turning into a woman. Women's clothings and cosmetics REALLY excites me.
As I got older, I never developed sexual feelings towards women (or men). I am romantically and emotionally attracted to women. However, the only thing that has ever sexually aroused me has been ->-bleeped-<- thoughts or wearing women's clothes.
It has gotten so severe and disruptive in my life that I decided to transition because it would be the only way I could ever be at peace. I was tired of living in a secret fantasy land. Now here I am almost a week into HRT and I'm very scared. Scared that I could be ruining my life. You see, there is both a huge chance of reward and a huge chance of failure. My life is now split into 4 branches and I do not know which way I am heading:
Branch 1: jdinatale transitions and everything is wonderful and all that he has dreamed of since he was 2. If this is the case, then the gamble pays off immensely.
Branch 2: jdinatale transitions and the cost outweighs the benefit. What if I transition, and while I'm sexually satisfied, the other aspects of my life are destroyed. If this happens, I miss out on: being a husband, having an prosperous career as a businessman, I lose my birth family (they told me they would never see me again).
Branch 3: jdinatale does not transition and lives a relatively happy life. He tries to do the same old thing he has always done, which is to suck it up and endure. He marries, and while he would have a loving wife and family, a dream job, a dream house, and externally happy, he would never be sexually fulfilled.
Branch 4: jdinatale does not transition and lives a regretful miserable life. This jdinatale tries to suck it up as a man and doesn't transition. Then at 30 he realizes that he probably should have transitioned at 20. So he sucks it up again. But then at 40/50, he has a full collapse because of something he should have done 20-30 years ago.
So which branch will jdinatale's life take? This is really, really killing me. Any of the 4 are real possibilities I suppose the best compromise would be to try it now and I can always go back to being a man later. At least then I wouldn't have the "What if's" regrets
you seriously need a new therapist. If I told my therapist the things you stated in this thread, she would have waited longer to give me HRT. YOu seem very unsure of yourself at the stage where HRT has been given to you.
Your therapist worries me. And I am worried that you are under his care.
And I fear you just opened the whole ->-bleeped-<- can of worms again :(
Quote from: Annah on January 08, 2012, 09:33:33 PM
you seriously need a new therapist. If I told my therapist the things you stated in this thread, she would have waited longer to give me HRT.
And I fear you just opened the whole ->-bleeped-<- can of worms again :(
But I've been to six different ones already in the span of two years. My psychiatrist finally recommended to start HRT after we couldn't resolve anything. This is the type of thing you have to plunge head first into. I can't just sit on the fence waiting any longer.
did you go to six different ones because you didn't like what they had to say or was it because they couldn't help you?
I totally understand you do not want to plunge head first into this but even after two years and you feel this way still, my therapist still wouldn't write letters. She probably would have referred me to other mental health counselors who are experts at various forms of mental illness. Now, I am not saying you have a mental illness..I am just saying what my doctor would have done.
Also, therapists wouldn't normally prescribe HRT because they cant figure you out. The reason being is because HRT permanently makes you sterile after 6 months. Based on the question you posted about your hrt, my therapist wouldn't have given them to you.
What if after 6 months you and your doctor realizes this was not the path to take? You will never have children again. Im shocked your doctor missed all of this.
Quote from: Annah on January 08, 2012, 09:40:07 PM
did you go to six different ones because you didn't like what they had to say or was it because they couldn't help you?
I totally understand you do not want to plunge head first into this but even after two years and you feel this way still, my therapist still wouldn't write letters. She probably would have referred me to other mental health counselors who are experts at various forms of mental illness. Now, I am not saying you have a mental illness..I am just saying what my doctor would have done.
Also, therapists wouldn't normally prescribe HRT because they cant figure you out. The reason being is because HRT permanently makes you sterile after 6 months. Based on the question you posted about your hrt, my therapist wouldn't have given them to you.
What if after 6 months you and your doctor realizes this was not the path to take? You will never have children again. Im shocked your doctor missed all of this.
I tried everything I could with my therapists to live life as a normal man. But nothing ever worked. We tried every possible therapy techniques and medications. It got to the point where my only option for happiness would be to transition. It's what we determined the next step to be.
It could be that your therapist isn't that far off track. In prescribing hormones it may be that he's getting you to Really think about transitioning and wether it is what you truly want or not. Once you start taking cross sex hormones it is no longer a fantasy, it very quickly becomes real and in some instances it can be the kick up the arse that some people need one way or the other to help them focus in on what it is that they really need to do.
You may find that your interest in female clothing will diminish as the hormones start taking affect and your arousal might as well when you imagine yourself as female. Whilst I was searching for my own solution to the total headache that was my GD I read absolutely everything I could find and more besides. This was helpful. http://www.avitale.com/TNote15Testosterone.htm (http://www.avitale.com/TNote15Testosterone.htm)
It may be that just swapping out your hormones will give you some peace, it will probably leave you impotent though so you do have some serious thinking to do. I don't personally think that you Need to transition as such just because you have started taking hormones, don't be pushed into it. I'm not convinced that full transition is the only answer for everyone. There are degrees of everything and you may find that just taking the edge off of your "maleness" does the trick. Best of luck in finding your comfortable place.....
Hi jdinatale,
to me the issue is more simple, if I may be excused.
Early HRT is often given (BELOW 6 MONTH IN DURATION!!!!! for the reasons Annah has mentioned already), to get EXACTLY the trepidation response that you have!
i.e. you are NOT transsexual but may be falling under some other description of the transgender umbrella, or some other issue(s)...
Honey, THAT IS MY TAKE. Period.
So be HAPPY you found out it (HRT) is NOT for you.
Get OFF the stuff and do your thing what ever that is.
Cross-dress be happy, get high being who you are in your fantasy - yet, if it gives you more problems then joy, go see a therapist - AND not necessarily one that is all transsexual oriented!
Therapists are also only human and go by their past learning - you obviously got 6 of them foxed already.
Axélle
I wouldn't necessarily get too caught up in the ->-bleeped-<- thing. If it is your sole reason for transitioning, perhaps you should ask yourself more questions, and the reduction in sex driver from the HRT might help you figure that out. However, if it's part of a bigger picture, then it doesn't necessarily mean transition isn't right for you. I know many people who are sexually aroused at the thought of being female and transitioned normally.
For me, while my transition was primarily about finding my identity, there was a significant sexual element as well, I got turned on by the thought of being 'trapped' in a male body, almost in the same way somebody might get off on being tied up or in bondage gear.
If I had paid too much attention to that, thinking that it was some sexually driven fantasy (and I had some doubts because of it, amongst other reasons) and let the thoughts cloud my judgement, I might have not transitioned, but I knew underneath, it was still the right thing to do. Sometimes we can look at established schools of thought or differing theories such as ->-bleeped-<- and label ourselves and therefore believe that we 'must' belong to that category. Don't bog yourself down in all that, just worry about what you know is right for you. Is it the sole reason or one reason? I would think it's normal to some extent to be sexually turned on at the thought of being a woman - you can finally express yourself sexually in the way you want to be, and in particular if you are attracted to women. I'm attracted to men, but even after my surgery, the realisation and the reality of me no longer having a penis and testicles and instead having a vagina is a turn-on for me, but I'd say my self perception in terms of gender was the main factor in my transition, personally.
QuoteHi jdinatale,
to me the issue is more simple, if I may be excused.
Early HRT is often given (BELOW 6 MONTH IN DURATION!!!!! for the reasons Annah has mentioned already), to get EXACTLY the trepidation response that you have!
i.e. you are NOT transsexual but may be falling under some other description of the transgender umbrella, or some other issue(s)...
Honey, THAT IS MY TAKE. Period.
So be HAPPY you found out it (HRT) is NOT for you.
Get OFF the stuff and do your thing what ever that is.
Cross-dress be happy, get high being who you are in your fantasy - yet, if it gives you more problems then joy, go see a therapist - AND not necessarily one that is all transsexual oriented!
Therapists are also only human and go by their past learning - you obviously got 6 of them foxed already.
Where does this all come from? Is it from another thread? I can't see how you can be so sure that jdinatale is not trans and does not need HRT. All that can be established now is that the situation is not certain. I was similarly very confused at the start of my transition, and while most people were supportive, one person stated that they didn't think I was trans, but here I am now, post-op and happier than ever. jdinatale may take the same path, or may not, no other person can decide that.
Quote from: Assoluta on January 09, 2012, 06:54:04 PM
[clipped]
Where does this all come from? Is it from another thread? I can't see how you can be so sure that jdinatale is not trans and does not need HRT. All that can be established now is that the situation is not certain. I was similarly very confused at the start of my transition, and while most people were supportive, one person stated that they didn't think I was trans, but here I am now, post-op and happier than ever. jdinatale may take the same path, or may not, no other person can decide that.
No, we are in the right place and thread for this my comment.
HRT in such cases is also used to find out where one really stand as far as being transsexual.
If the drop in sexual desire it will cause you, 'destroys' your place in the scheme of things i.e. no more sexual highs and all gets flat and awfully uninteresting etc. THEN, HRT is not for you, and you may be transgender as I mentioned, but not TRANSSEXUAL.
It is one of the ways that therapists get some insight as to what's going on.
I thought I made that clear. If you do not agree with that, that's fine but there's no need to go call me out on that with your comments.
Again if HRT takes you off your sexual high, if that is what you after, your motivation alone --------- if I be excused, WHY would you want to go on or insist with HRT?! Hello.
Axélle
Quote from: Assoluta on January 09, 2012, 06:54:04 PM
Where does this all come from? Is it from another thread? I can't see how you can be so sure that jdinatale is not trans and does not need HRT. All that can be established now is that the situation is not certain. I was similarly very confused at the start of my transition, and while most people were supportive, one person stated that they didn't think I was trans, but here I am now, post-op and happier than ever. jdinatale may take the same path, or may not, no other person can decide that.
I think what Axelle was stating: while HRT can be used to help someone immensely, I would not necessarily administer HRT as a litmus test to see how things "pan out." The main reason for me (and a reason for Axelle) is because of permanent sterility. That's a really big deal.
jd is in her early twenties and what would happen if she realized hrt wasn't for her after 6 months of HRT? She will have the rest of her life having to come to grips with the fact that she cannot have children naturally. Someone in their early twenties may not see the importance in that but as one gets older, many do have a desire to have children...even if that desire is not there right now.
So, as a litmus test to see if this will work out, HRT is a very big step and a gamble for someone so unsure of themselves.
My second visit to my therapist, I asked her when I was ready for HRT. She told me to "know thyself." When you are ready, you will know it....even after all the risks of HRT and transitioning has been laid out. If you do not know yourself, HRT may hurt you rather than help you.
Also, another point Axelle was getting at is the fact that JD has a strong sexual fantasy to be a girl. It's a very strong fetish and fantasy for her. When you're on HRT, your libido drops to the basement. If JD's main identity is to act out these sexual fantasies, it will be very hard to do since HRT will disrupt that. Some may see that as a cure, but growing breasts, feminine traits are a godsend for someone who sees this as a fetish but hardly the ability to act out those sexual fetishes because the libido is low is not really a cure. To me it's a band aid laced in arsenic.
I know that deep down that the only way to find sexual inner peace is to continue to transition. But the cost is SO great for me if I'm wrong. I'm losing my family members which are my literally best friends. I'm losing a prosperous career in business. I'm losing my good looks as a guy for a gamble at looking good as a female. I'll become marginalized in society.
But the sexual desire to be a woman is the most intense feeling I have ever experienced. And wearing women's clothes feels sooooo good. Just fantasizing is never enough.
One moment, I know in my heart it's right. The next moment I am filled with doubt, trepidation, and anxiety that I might be ruining my life.
Thanks Annah, for broadening out the rational, you have a way with settings things out well once more and clearer detail is called for.
(As a Gemini I often tend to go a bit too fast... sorry)
@jdinatale
There is this knowing: "... you can't ALWAYS get what you want..." and in your case that comes to mind. Wanting to have your cake AND eat it, is not ever going to happen, neither will it for you. Sorry.
Yet, it is VERY good you weight the importance between the different things you mentioned, and again if HRT very early on showed you - where it's NOT at - well it served a good purpose.
In fact that is what I was trying to get across.
As to how you move forward only you be able to tell.
And now the best of luck,
Axélle
Hi jdinatale,
I was in almost exactly the same place as you a few years ago. I was in my early 20's, felt the same way, had the same sort of good male looks and was on course to go to a top med school. I thought long and hard about what to do and decided I could just "suck it up" and just get on with life. I thought maybe I'm just a cross-dresser or something. Sure it mightn't be the best thing life but I had it pretty good compared to a lot of people. It worked for a year or two but then during my final year of pre-med I tanked hard. I Became severely depressed and attempted suicide. I would bring myself to the brink of committing suicide, then decide to transition. After deciding to transition I'd feel better about the world, and then decide life didn't suck so much and maybe I could just "suck it up" and thus the cycle would start again. I also went through the whole "I'm too ugly to pass thing" (I'm 6ft tall) but that's another story.
Eventually I bit the bullet and went to a psychiatrist who was a complete idiot. I lied through my teeth to get him to put me on HRT (I doubt he'd have let me if he thought there was anything sexual about it). The whole ->-bleeped-<- thing seemed to almost go away after a few months on hormones, but even without that driving me on I am still much happier on hormones and think it was absolutely the best decision I could make. I'm now 18 months into HRT, and even when I am in boy mode I still get ma'amed. I pass well enough that no one questions my gender in restrooms, restaurants or the like. In fact I pass so well that I even get the occasional guy trying to hit on me.
The whole ->-bleeped-<- thing is a crock of ->-bleeped-<-, if I had have listened to people saying that I wasn't a "true transsexual" or "HRT is not for you" I'd have never transitioned. I very nearly didn't because of my own doubts around it. I think you may find that a lot of trans people have some degree of ->-bleeped-<- (whether they'd like to admit it or not is another matter!!)
Feel free to email me if you want to talk about anything.
I tried not transitioning and hit branch 4 (almost committing suicide). I tried transitioning and hit branch 1. You may be a stronger person than I, but not transitioning would just have led to suicide for me, so I guess I really had nothing to lose. At least by attempting transition I gave myself the best possible chance of being happy (dead is not happy!)
Quote from: Axélle-Michélle on January 09, 2012, 09:54:27 PM
No, we are in the right place and thread for this my comment.
HRT in such cases is also used to find out where one really stand as far as being transsexual.
If the drop in sexual desire it will cause you, 'destroys' your place in the scheme of things i.e. no more sexual highs and all gets flat and awfully uninteresting etc. THEN, HRT is not for you, and you may be transgender as I mentioned, but not TRANSSEXUAL.
It is one of the ways that therapists get some insight as to what's going on.
I thought I made that clear. If you do not agree with that, that's fine but there's no need to go call me out on that with your comments.
Again if HRT takes you off your sexual high, if that is what you after, your motivation alone --------- if I be excused, WHY would you want to go on or insist with HRT?! Hello.
Axélle
That's all fair enough, the reason why I was confused was that you said "Be happy you FOUND out that HRT is not for you" and "cross dress and be happy" as if the OP had already discovered that transitioning wasn't right and was 'correct not to continue', when at the moment, the situation is not certain. I agree that if Estrogen reduces your sex drive and suddenly the sexual desire to be a woman disappears, then it probably isn't the right choice if that's the only factor, but one can't come to that conclusion 1 week into HRT, or 1 week into transition, or whatever. Like I said before, I still had doubts and 'trepidation' even 6 months into HRT and it made me feel terrible and reduced me to tears when I first took them, but for me it ended up the right choice.
QuoteThe whole ->-bleeped-<- thing is a crock of ->-bleeped-<-, if I had have listened to people saying that I wasn't a "true transsexual" or "HRT is not for you" I'd have never transitioned. I very nearly didn't because of my own doubts around it. I think you may find that a lot of trans people have some degree of ->-bleeped-<- (whether they'd like to admit it or not is another matter!!)
Thankyou, my views and experiences exactly. The ->-bleeped-<- theory may be valid for a few whose transition is driven SOLELY by sexual desire, but it need not be over-applied.
QuoteI think what Axelle was stating: while HRT can be used to help someone immensely, I would not necessarily administer HRT as a litmus test to see how things "pan out." The main reason for me (and a reason for Axelle) is because of permanent sterility. That's a really big deal.
I would agree, probably doing RLT without hormones for a while would be more advisable, to make things more clear, keeping an open mind to any possibility.
Quote from: Annah on January 09, 2012, 10:08:30 PM
Also, another point Axelle was getting at is the fact that JD has a strong sexual fantasy to be a girl. It's a very strong fetish and fantasy for her. When you're on HRT, your libido drops to the basement. If JD's main identity is to act out these sexual fantasies, it will be very hard to do since HRT will disrupt that. Some may see that as a cure, but growing breasts, feminine traits are a godsend for someone who sees this as a fetish but hardly the ability to act out those sexual fetishes because the libido is low is not really a cure. To me it's a band aid laced in arsenic.
That depends from Auto-fetishist to auto-fetishist. For
some people that transition because of these reasons, the drive is rather psychologicaly erotic rather than driven by Testosterone, or how to word it, so a person that has a full sex change because of the forementioned reasons, may very well turn out happy and living in a sort of constant "Turn on" ever on, something which has also happened in reality.
However, changing sex because of something like that, is much of a play with Russian Roulette; Either you get lucky or you get very unlucky.
In Jdinatale's case, I don't think there is any point to advice him on this and that as he simply do not listen to any advices given, but seems to be one of those that rather, as Axelle put it in another thread on another matter, almost "thrives on doubt".
He has been given loads of advices, yet he continuously asks; "What should I do?"
So the only way he can come to realization is to simply walk the path and do his own mistakes(Or fortunes) and learn from them.*shrugs*
Sorry if I sound blunt and careless, but sometimes there are simply no point in trying to take discuss with people and they have to make the important journeys and discoveries by themselves.
Quote from: reathia on January 10, 2012, 04:23:46 AM
The whole ->-bleeped-<- thing is a crock of ->-bleeped-<-, if I had have listened to people saying that I wasn't a "true transsexual" or "HRT is not for you" I'd have never transitioned. I very nearly didn't because of my own doubts around it. I think you may find that a lot of trans people have some degree of ->-bleeped-<- (whether they'd like to admit it or not is another matter!!)
No.....people don't have varying degrees of ->-bleeped-<-. Wrong.
Saying you have various elements of a emotional spikes and mental depression in the medival period could have pegged you as a witch. Today, we see that as a type of mental illness and not demon possession. The symptoms have not change, the understanding of how we see things has changed.
->-bleeped-<- is an archaic term to explain certain aspects of ->-bleeped-<-....also, would you tell a gg she has ->-bleeped-<- because she wants to dress sexy for her date? Well im female and if i dress sexy for my bf its not ->-bleeped-<-.
->-bleeped-<- is like calling someone with bipolar a witch or retarded. If you want to label yourself as ->-bleeped-<- be my guest but stop assuming everone has ->-bleeped-<- because i do not associate myself with a label made up by Richard Blanchard
Quote from: Annah on January 10, 2012, 09:08:10 AM
No.....people don't have varying degrees of ->-bleeped-<-. Wrong.
Saying you have various elements of a emotional spikes and mental depression in the medival period could have pegged you as a witch. Today, we see that as a type of mental illness and not demon possession. The symptoms have not change, the understanding of how we see things has changed.
->-bleeped-<- is an archaic term to explain certain aspects of ->-bleeped-<-....also, would you tell a gg she has ->-bleeped-<- because she wants to dress sexy for her date? Well im female and if i dress sexy for my bf its not ->-bleeped-<-.
->-bleeped-<- is like calling someone with bipolar a witch or retarded. If you want to label yourself as ->-bleeped-<- be my guest but stop assuming everone has ->-bleeped-<- because i do not associate myself with a label made up by Richard Blanchard
Whoa there. I only used the term because that's what the original poster wrote, I've never really come across it before (the first time I read about trans-theory stuff I came across Germaine Greer, I don't really need that kind of vitriolic hatred in my life so I didn't explore the subject further). If I've offended I apologise.
Quote from: Annah on January 10, 2012, 09:08:10 AM
No.....people don't have varying degrees of ->-bleeped-<-. Wrong.
Saying you have various elements of a emotional spikes and mental depression in the medival period could have pegged you as a witch. Today, we see that as a type of mental illness and not demon possession. The symptoms have not change, the understanding of how we see things has changed.
->-bleeped-<- is an archaic term to explain certain aspects of ->-bleeped-<-....also, would you tell a gg she has ->-bleeped-<- because she wants to dress sexy for her date? Well im female and if i dress sexy for my bf its not ->-bleeped-<-.
->-bleeped-<- is like calling someone with bipolar a witch or retarded. If you want to label yourself as ->-bleeped-<- be my guest but stop assuming everone has ->-bleeped-<- because i do not associate myself with a label made up by Richard Blanchard
I am sorry, but that is wrong yet again, as you can indeed have varying degrees of various "leanings", such as various degress of depression, various degress of Bisexuality, various degress of Transsexualism, to only mention a few examples.
There are, for instance and according to Clanchard, also Partial ->-bleeped-<-, where the person only wants to feminize certain parts of the body for sexual/fetishistic reasons.
As for the eternal discussion of the ->-bleeped-<--theory and the retorts from the opponents that every Cis-female that enjoys dressing up, then must have it aswell, it, by that logic, rather discounts Transvestism than the ->-bleeped-<--theory, as ->-bleeped-<- is not about the clothes(Although clothing
may be a part of it) but about sexual arousement from the thought of having
a body of the opposite sex, for which reason I must counter with how Wonderdyke put it in the earlier ->-bleeped-<--thread;
QuoteIf jdinatale identifies as autogynephilic, that is, that they (I'm using they for lack of a marker for identified sex, but please tell me if you'd prefer another pronoun) feel sexually aroused by the thought of themselves as a woman (as categorically separate from "envisioning sex as a woman," you folks who resolutely claim that "everyone is ->-bleeped-<-, even cis women". Cis women don't pop ladyboners at the thought of putting on a hoodie and jeans to go buy milk at the local 7-Eleven, and that's what the perceived separation between ->-bleeped-<- and normal sexual arousal from sexual thoughts which are, sex-positivity mode go!, perfectly normal and nothing to be afraid of!), then so it is. Jdinatale, if you identify as autogynephilic, god bless you.
In other words, I highly doubt that all cis-females are constantly turned on by constantly imagening themselves as having male bodies, which would be the equivalent of ->-bleeped-<- in bio-females(but then called Auto-Androphilia).
Sure, I am absolutely certain as I know for a fact that there are
some cis-females that get turned on by constantly imagening themselves as having male bodies, but alow me to doubt that every cis-female does so on a daily basis, as the Autogynephile does, according to the theory.
Stretching the rules for the theory only because someone do not agree with it, is cheeting. Naughty naughty. ;D
However whether a person with ->-bleeped-<- gets happy with a sex change, is, as said, very individual. Some have been, and thrives on being "trapped" in a female body, while others, ofcourse, bitterly regrets having transitioned because of a fetish.
As said, Jdinataile simply has to do and learn from his own mistakes, as he do not want to listen to others advices.
Ok, so I've been on HRT for a week and I will just lay out the facts and hopefully we can extrapolate:
Pros:
-After starting HRT, my severe depression and anxiety began to lift
-Feeling the changes in my body (nipple sensations) feels really good and right
-wearing women's clothes and makeup has always been amazing to me, and this is WITHOUT including sexually motivated use (you aren't very sexual at age 3!)
Cons:
-Selfish (This decision is all about me and neglects my family's feelings)
-lost job opportunities
-socially marginilized
Quote from: Assoluta on January 10, 2012, 07:48:51 AM
That's all fair enough, the reason why I was confused was that you said "Be happy you FOUND out that HRT is not for you" and "cross dress and be happy" as if the OP had already discovered that transitioning wasn't right and was 'correct not to continue', when at the moment, the situation is not certain.
This is true. I have NOT yet discovered that transitioning was not for me.
Quote from: Bishounen on January 10, 2012, 08:55:27 AM
In Jdinatale's case, I don't think there is any point to advice him on this and that as he simply do not listen to any advices given, but seems to be one of those that rather, as Axelle put it in another thread on another matter, almost "thrives on doubt".
He has been given loads of advices, yet he continuously asks; "What should I do?"
I'm not sure what advice I'm not listening to. Is it so wrong that I feel uncertain about the most critical decision that I will ever make? There are so few things in life we know 100% to be correct.
My dear, you are fine, and have been fine. It is normal to question, and it is healthy to do so. As all of us have chimed in, it would be good to seek a good gender therapist who can help you with these emotions. But, from when we personally talked, you seem clear about what you want. These feeling of guilty are partially self-imposed, and you are using them as crutch, or a reason, for not transitioning.
For what it's worth, I was having second thoughts about transition because transitioning on my job was a complete non issue. It was such a non issues, that is was completely business as usual. I got scared that maybe I wasn't trans because I didn't feel some great moment when I gave up presenting male. But, business as usual is what we should all ask for by our jobs. The point being, is that sometimes we over-think things, and sometimes we try to match our experiences with others, and when they conflict, or don't go down the same way, then we feel like something is wrong. You seem more clear than what you let on sometimes; let go and learn to love yourself for the first time in your life.
Smooth and Annah,
While not wanting to deviate from the main topic of the post, your posts and references to ->-bleeped-<- interested me. So in my quest to have a better understanding I searched and found this paper:
http://www.genderpsychology.org/ ->-bleeped-<-/male_gender_dysphoria/index.html (http://www.genderpsychology.org/%20-%3E-bleeped-%3C-/male_gender_dysphoria/index.html)
Can anyone tell me - do I understand it correctly that all non-cross dressing TGs have been lumped into the same category as cross-dressing TGs, and prescribed the same mental illness? This doesn't seem plausible, but I suppose that the genius psychiatrists of the world will do what ever they please.
I am alarmed by the arm-chair therapy I am reading here. I cannot believe in the "absolutes" that some would put forward as fact, i.e. "there are no relative degrees of a condition, you either have it totally, or you don't have it at all".
Each respondent will tend to see things through their own lens of experience and you must consider their advice in that vein.
I believe it's normal for us to question the validity of our condition. I believe it's normal for all of us to have second thoughts at some point. I believe it's normal for us to vacillate to some degree at some time.
Our worlds would all be easier if we could just be told which course is correct when we face a difficult decision on a life direction. Life ain't that easy. :)
Consider this:
Each person posting with a problem they seek assistance with is generally not giving all the needed information to make an informed decision. It's quite likely they already know what's right for them, so they are shading the facts to support what they believe in their hearts.
Each respondent is likely to show that the course that was right for them is also right for others.
Having a therapist who has assisted many other transsexuals is important. A bad therapist is far worse than no therapist at all.
Giving bad advice can result in death, disfigurement or serious injury. If you don't have formal training in psychology, don't think you can give good advice to someone you've never met in person.
Asking for serious guidance from people on the Internet may be hazardous to your health.
In your case, I don't see any harm from seeing what a month or even two months trial run on hormones can do. You must agree to stop at 2 months to avoid serious long-term affects. At that point, a serious evaluation between you and a trained gender therapist might do you wonders.
I had to change therapists once. I can see someone doing it multiple times in order to get the right one. They are not all the same.
Quote from: jdinatale on January 10, 2012, 05:00:16 PMCons:
-Selfish (This decision is all about me and neglects my family's feelings)
Did you ever ask your parents and other family members just what it is about transsexuality that they find so undesirable? If so, what did they say?
For what little or much as it may be worth, I have experienced quite a bit of ->-bleeped-<- in my teens starting at around twelve or so. I doubted transition because of this at times... though I decided that I couldn't know the answers for sure unless I went to get them. I allowed myself the fantasizing I required from time to time, and transitioned as soon as the fates would have it.
I didn't experience worries though. I had already made up my mind five years prior to starting hormones that I was ready to lose everything for this opportunity. The point of difference in this case is that my reasons for transitioning were far greater than a desire for sexual fulfillment; the sexual desires were merely the precursor to a discovery about my person.
The ->-bleeped-<- faded long before I started hormones, but it never went away. It's with me to this day, though in a different form; the kind that it is said that cis women experience. Additionally, I appear to have gained some AAP - the two appear to play an equal role in my limited sexual expression, whether it is one, the other, or both at once. In any case, those tendancies play a greatly diminished and now minor role in my life.
It's possible that things might be similar with you, though displaced in when. Perhaps the ->-bleeped-<- will start to fade with hormones, and perhaps it was just a train to follow to a destination, as I have experienced. In any case it is necessary to evaluate the non-->-bleeped-<- reasons to transition. What if you lost all sexuality... would you still do it?
Based on your pros and cons alone, I would choose to transition. Being at peace with oneself is what everyone wants in life... for me, transition alone allowed that, so no matter what I do, I will be happy just beacuse of it. Some have to have important jobs, lots of money, tons of friends, or whatever-else-have-you. I transitioned because it meant that I could be happy even if I had nothing and no one.
I won't dare to offer more than my experiences. Suggestions are dangerous... so I hope what I have said can help in some way.
Quote from: jdinatale on January 10, 2012, 05:00:16 PM
I'm not sure what advice I'm not listening to. Is it so wrong that I feel uncertain about the most critical decision that I will ever make? There are so few things in life we know 100% to be correct.
No, it is absolutely not wrong of you to feel uncertain, and perhaps my wording came out a bit "Blunt".
I had no intention of seeming careless, and if I did, I apologize for that.
It is just that there seem to be so many people that decides- or thinks about- transitioning and asks other people for their opinions about it and then basically seems to ignore the answers and asks for opinions anew on things that have basically already been answered.
And not the least, asking for opinions on something that in the end only the person asking for advice can decide.
What I am saying is, that in this thread, you are asking for advice on things you have already recieved advices on. But the thing is, that no-one can make the final decission for you. I know and fully understand that it feels frightening and that you desperately wish that someone could lift this too heavy burden and desicion from your shoulders. However, people can only give you advices, they cannot make the final decission for you. The final decision on which road to take, must come from you and only you, with no thought of others or what they think is right or wrong for you, or whether they agree with the final decision or not.
As for that final decision, the only thing I can "Advice" you, is that none of the scenarios you describe in the starting post, is really 100% final and definite, as you are basically just describing gender roles in your futuristic scenarios. However, just because you have a certain body you do not have to confirm to a specific gender role.
There are Bio-males that have had either full sex changes including HRT, aswell as there are males that have only had Vaginoplasty and yet continue living as males in the everyday life, and/or lives as females when they want to do that, back and forth.
The only thing that really is definite, is the matter of biological children, however you could always store your Sperm, if you keep your trans-status secret, as I believe transitioners are not allowed to store Sperm, although that may perhaps be different where you live, I wouldn't know.
But in short: You decide your Gender and how to express that, however what Gender you have and what body you have, is two separate things.
If you consider your situation from that aspect, several of your problems will definitely come in another light.
Hope this post cleared out a few things on how I actually meant.
Quote from: Bishounen on January 11, 2012, 09:53:02 AM
No, it is absolutely not wrong of you to feel uncertain, and perhaps my wording came out a bit "Blunt".
I had no intention of seeming careless, and if I did, I apologize for that.
It is just that there seem to be so many people that decides- or thinks about- transitioning and asks other people for their opinions about it and then basically seems to ignore the answers and asks for opinions anew on things that have basically already been answered.
And not the least, asking for opinions on something that in the end only the person asking for advice can decide.
What I am saying is, that in this thread, you are asking for advice on things you have already recieved advices on. But the thing is, that no-one can make the final decission for you. I know and fully understand that it feels frightening and that you desperately wish that someone could lift this too heavy burden and desicion from your shoulders. However, people can only give you advices, they cannot make the final decission for you. The final decision on which road to take, must come from you and only you, with no thought of others or what they think is right or wrong for you, or whether they agree with the final decision or not.
As for that final decision, the only thing I can "Advice" you, is that none of the scenarios you describe in the starting post, is really 100% final and definite, as you are basically just describing gender roles in your futuristic scenarios. However, just because you have a certain body you do not have to confirm to a specific gender role.
There are Bio-males that have had either full sex changes including HRT, aswell as there are males that have only had Vaginoplasty and yet continue living as males in the everyday life, and/or lives as females when they want to do that, back and forth.
The only thing that really is definite, is the matter of biological children, however you could always store your Sperm, if you keep your trans-status secret, as I believe transitioners are not allowed to store Sperm, although that may perhaps be different where you live, I wouldn't know.
But in short: You decide your Gender and how to express that, however what Gender you have and what body you have, is two separate things.
If you consider your situation from that aspect, several of your problems will definitely come in another light.
Hope this post cleared out a few things on how I actually meant.
In a previous response to the OP, you misgendered a person who had started hormones, referring to that person repeatedly as "him". In the event you did not know, this can be interpreted as terribly insulting to some people.
Please don't think that, because someone has asked a question and received input from others on a topic, that it should be inappropriate to ask the same question again. The female mind solves problems by talking it out. In many cases, a female will talk to extremes and a male mind will want them to be quiet after telling them "the answer". It may be obvious to a male who wants it over, done and resolved, but the female may need to continue to talk it out. Just because a female is talking and asking questions doesn't mean that they will be helped by someone with assertive statements.
Females need to interact, commiserate and sympathize with each other. It is not necessarily of great importance to them that anything be promptly solved or anyone be declared "right" or "the winner of the argument". It is often more important that they received support and understanding from others rather than getting information. Males need to accomplish the goal and resolve the issue quickly. Females may often be less inclined to accomplish such things, as they are far more emotionally oriented than action oriented.
It appears to me that the original poster is simply working through things in her own mind, at her own pace, in a manner that makes sense to her.
If it irritates you, it is unfortunate. It is, after all, her own issue to work through.
Just go with the flow and if after a few months you don't like it you can always stop no biggie.
Quote from: Re: Joyce on January 11, 2012, 05:50:15 PM
In a previous response to the OP, you misgendered a person who had started hormones, referring to that person repeatedly as "him". In the event you did not know, this can be interpreted as terribly insulting to some people.
Firstly, Jdinatale had, as for the writing moment of the previous post of mine, and in fact still haven't, gendered his profile with an "F" as for "Female", which signals to the reader that while Jdinatale do not necessarily identify as male, he, nonetheless and obviously, do not identify as a female either. And, as Jdinatale have not put any other Gender symbol on the profile, it further gives the message that the reader self is free to gender Jdinatale as see fit.
And while on this very topic, Jdinatale have said himself that he is a Autogynophilic- Not a Transsexual.
This is important, for according to the ->-bleeped-<--theory, Autogynephiiles are not
females in males bodies as the TMTF-ranssexual are, but fetishistic
males trapped in males bodies, as the autogynephile do not selfidentify as a female, but as a male that want a female body for auto-fetishistic and sexual reasons.
As such, titling a Pre-Transitioned Autogynephile as "He" is not an insult nor incorrect.
If, however, Jdinatale explicitly says that he now wishes to be referred to as Female, than I will also title him as such with no hesitation whatsoever.
QuotePlease don't think that, because someone has asked a question and received input from others on a topic, that it should be inappropriate to ask the same question again.
Okay, then do you wish that I repost this full post I just one more time for you, then, by that reasoning?
QuoteThe female mind solves problems by talking it out. In many cases, a female will talk to extremes and a male mind will want them to be quiet after telling them "the answer".
Is that the ->-bleeped-<-r than thou-attitude at work again, that pops up its head?
Telling the person that gets your undies in a twist that the person is "obviously male" as soon as you find that person annoying, is, indeed that very ->-bleeped-<-r than thou-attitude.
Tsk tsk. Please, not at Susan's.
QuoteIt may be obvious to a male who wants it over, done and resolved, but the female may need to continue to talk it out. Just because a female is talking and asking questions doesn't mean that they will be helped by someone with assertive statements.
Talking something out and asking the same questions over and over is two completely different things.
QuoteFemales need to interact, commiserate and sympathize with each other. It is not necessarily of great importance to them that anything be promptly solved or anyone be declared "right" or "the winner of the argument". It is often more important that they received support and understanding from others rather than getting information. Males need to accomplish the goal and resolve the issue quickly. Females may often be less inclined to accomplish such things, as they are far more emotionally oriented than action oriented.
Oh, I know very well how females and males function Psychologically, as I am very interested in Gender Science. However, not to be confused with Feministic so called Gender "Science", mind you.
QuoteIt appears to me that the original poster is simply working through things in her own mind, at her own pace, in a manner that makes sense to her.
If it irritates you, it is unfortunate. It is, after all, her own issue to work through.
If Jdinatale is working things through in his own mind, than why not take it with the professional, that is, with the Therapist instead of a bunch of total strangers?
Asking questions is good, however, asking the same questions repeatedly,
may cause anyone a tad of irritation, no matter what hangs or not hangs between the legs.
Quote from: Bishounen on January 12, 2012, 09:59:18 AM
If Jdinatale is working things through in his own mind, than why not take it with the professional, that is, with the Therapist instead of a bunch of total strangers?
Asking questions is good, however, asking the same questions repeatedly, may cause anyone a tad of irritation, no matter what hangs or not hangs between the legs.
Listen, nobody is making you read my posts and threads. You seem to be the only one with the problem with them. If you don't like them, the solution is simple - don't read them.
:police:
I would very strongly suggest that the three of you read the TOS for this site. This is a support site not an attack site. I recognise you are new to the site, so I will be lenient.
If there is another post in this thread continuing this argument I will have to hand out penalties. Put the silly stuff to sleep please.
Cindy James
Global Moderator.
Quote from: jdinatale on January 08, 2012, 09:47:35 PM
I tried everything I could with my therapists to live life as a normal man. But nothing ever worked. We tried every possible therapy techniques and medications. It got to the point where my only option for happiness would be to transition. It's what we determined the next step to be.
"Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth."
Why are the vast majority of heterosexual men not even remotely aroused by the idea of having a female body, even temporarily? In fact, most find the idea horrifying, despite lust of the female form. This is a strong indication they possess an intrinsic male gender identity that informs them on their body preference. You do not seem to have this. Also, why did you feel this way when you were so young? ->-bleeped-<- is real, but it's a consequence, not the cause, of gender issues.
In my opinion, if you ever want peace in your life, you'll have to forget all these labels and see how HRT works out for you over the next few months. I hope your family would be a bit more understanding, since you didn't just casually succumb to your feelings, but rather fought your feelings vehemently for many years. After all, I never fought my feelings and gave into them immediately... and I still have my family. It's wrong and unfortunate that you'll lose yours after all of your resistance.
I wish the best for you, jdinatale; I hope you get this all sorted out and live a happy fulfilling life. : )
Quote from: Inanna on January 15, 2012, 06:30:13 AM
Why are the vast majority of heterosexual men not even remotely aroused by the idea of having a female body, even temporarily? In fact, most find the idea horrifying, despite lust of the female form. This is a strong indication they possess an intrinsic male gender identity that informs them on their body preference. You do not seem to have this. Also, why did you feel this way when you were so young? ->-bleeped-<- is real, but it's a consequence, not the cause, of gender issues.
In my opinion, if you ever want peace in your life, you'll have to forget all these labels and see how HRT works out for you over the next few months. I hope your family would be a bit more understanding, since you didn't just casually succumb to your feelings, but rather fought your feelings vehemently for many years. After all, I never fought my feelings and gave into them immediately... and I still have my family. It's wrong and unfortunate that you'll lose yours after all of your resistance.
I wish the best for you, jdinatale; I hope you get this all sorted out and live a happy fulfilling life. : )
My family just has a terrible attitude towards my gender identity disorder that stems from ignorance and the unwillingness to become educated. I told them how I tried so hard to be a man for 20 years and how I worked diligently in therapy for 2 years trying to extirpate these thoughts from my head. Their response? "Well keep on trying! If you pray hard enough, the lord and savior Jesus Christ will heal you! Don't ever give into these feelings, they are of Satan." My mom actually told me that a demon was inside of me giving me these thoughts.
Quote from: jdinatale on January 15, 2012, 11:31:02 AM
My family just has a terrible attitude towards my gender identity disorder that stems from ignorance and the unwillingness to become educated. I told them how I tried so hard to be a man for 20 years and how I worked diligently in therapy for 2 years trying to extirpate these thoughts from my head. Their response? "Well keep on trying! If you pray hard enough, the lord and savior Jesus Christ will heal you! Don't ever give into these feelings, they are of Satan." My mom actually told me that a demon was inside of me giving me these thoughts.
Isn't it odd how some Christians extrapolate that being trans is wrong, even though the Bible says absolutely nothing about it (only a mention of crossdressing)? They seem to think of it as an extreme form of gayness. Maybe you could stress the point that you only like girls. Or you could ask them to find a verse that condemns your desire to be a girl. You could also mention that it's wrong to lie, and that's how you see living as a boy.
Quote from: Inanna on January 15, 2012, 02:11:55 PM
Isn't it odd how some Christians extrapolate that being trans is wrong, even though the Bible says absolutely nothing about it (only a mention of crossdressing)? They seem to think of it as an extreme form of gayness. Maybe you could stress the point that you only like girls. Or you could ask them to find a verse that condemns your desire to be a girl. You could also mention that it's wrong to lie, and that's how you see living as a boy.
The bible might not have any references to being transgender, but my family is mormon and our church officially states, "All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose."
So I can never win no matter how much logic and reasoning I do. If I say one thing and God says the other, God wins in my family's eyes.
Quote from: jdinatale on January 15, 2012, 02:28:41 PM
The bible might not have any references to being transgender, but my family is mormon and our church officially states, "All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose."
Okay, so they view gender as existing separate of the physical body (premortal, eternal identity and purpose). In that case, shouldn't they accept that your physical body is only a part of your actual gender?
And if they believe God would never mix together male and female attributes in the same person, physical intersex conditions sort of blow that concept out of the water
Anyway, since gender is viewed as so important in their eyes, wouldn't it be that much worse to spend your whole life lying about it?
QuoteSo I can never win no matter how much logic and reasoning I do. If I say one thing and God says the other, God wins in my family's eyes.
They're interpreting, extrapolating, and commandeering God's message for their own purposes, which to me seems much worse.
Quote from: jdinatale on January 15, 2012, 02:28:41 PM
The bible might not have any references to being transgender, but my family is mormon and our church officially states, "All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose."
So I can never win no matter how much logic and reasoning I do. If I say one thing and God says the other, God wins in my family's eyes.
I don't know whether you'll be able to change your parents' minds, but you can at least win credibility by stating how contradictory the bible is and use their own arguments against them.
For example:
In Deuteronomy 23.1 it states "He whose testicles are crushed or whose male member is cut off shall not enter the assembly of the LORD." - that doesn't sound good for anyone considering SRS, but then take the passage from Isiah 56:4-5:
"For thus says the Lord: to the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths, who choose the things that please me and hold fast to my covenant, I will give, in my house and within my walls, a monument better than sons and daughters, I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off."
Despite the slightly amusing pun, it rather flies in the face of the previous statement, doesn't it?
From Corinthians 5:19 - People may argue that body modification is wrong:
"If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you yourselves are his temple"
But from Mark 9:43-47:
"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell."
There are many ways to interpret this, but it can be easily interpreted as God still accepting you if you modify your body.
You may have heard this:
"A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God."
but in Galatians 3:28:
"there is neither male nor female, for we are all one in Christ Jesus."
and John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that
whosover believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Also, if your parents where clothes combining cloth and linen, the Bible doesn't allow that either!
I am not anti religion, and while I don't strictly practise a religion, I do believe in the possibility of a higher presence, and do respect the positive elements of the human spirit that religion can bring about. However, religion can often be misused as a tool to oppress, particularly by quoting from the bible using select information. However, with the above quotes, you can at least argue back and give them something to think about.
Also, you seem to be close to your twin sister as mentioned in other threads - what does she think of it all?
Quote from: jdinatale on January 15, 2012, 02:28:41 PM
The bible might not have any references to being transgender, but my family is mormon and our church officially states, "All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose."
So I can never win no matter how much logic and reasoning I do. If I say one thing and God says the other, God wins in my family's eyes.
According to my LDS friends, the Bible and the Book of Mormon are the "word of God" ...
so long as they are translated correctlyI suppose "so long as thet are understood correctly" might apply, a well.
Quote from: Beverley on January 15, 2012, 02:31:51 PM
OK, so let me ask the unthinkable - would you leave home if it meant you could transition? What would the outcomes of such an action be? You know your parents, we do not.
As a thought experiment, what would happen?
Beverley
There are costs and benefits to every decision. By living at home I really am getting a killer deal - free room, board, utilities, laundry, a car, etc. I haven't had to take out ANY loans throughout college. I actually get paid ~$2,000 a semester by my school, just to go to school. Let that sink in...I get paid to go to school. If I moved out, I would lose all of those aforementioned benefits plus the $2000 (it would go towards living expenses). I would probably have to take out a loan.
Sure, I would LOVE to be able to get out of this guy mode. But you have to make wise decisions in life. I think the smartest move is to save money and endure guy mode as best as possible for the next 1.5 years until I graduate.
Of course, the cost to staying at home is...enduring guy mode for 1.5 years. Plus the stress of hiding all of my physical changes. Plus the strain of not being able to express my true self.
Costs and benefits.
Quote from: Inanna on January 15, 2012, 02:43:30 PM
Okay, so they view gender as existing separate of the physical body (premortal, eternal identity and purpose). In that case, shouldn't they accept that your physical body is only a part of your actual gender?
And if they believe God would never mix together male and female attributes in the same person, physical intersex conditions sort of blow that concept out of the water
Anyway, since gender is viewed as so important in their eyes, wouldn't it be that much worse to spend your whole life lying about it?
They're interpreting, extrapolating, and commandeering God's message for their own purposes, which to me seems much worse.
Here's what my bishop told me: "You are a male spirit in a male body. You were a male before you were born and you will be a male after you die." He said I just have been natured and nurtured to THINK I am a girl, but I'm not REALLY a girl. How do you argue with that?
Quote from: Assoluta on January 15, 2012, 02:54:21 PM
I don't know whether you'll be able to change your parents' minds, but you can at least win credibility by stating how contradictory the bible is and use their own arguments against them.
For example:
In Deuteronomy 23.1 it states "He whose testicles are crushed or whose male member is cut off shall not enter the assembly of the LORD." - that doesn't sound good for anyone considering SRS, but then take the passage from Isiah 56:4-5:
"For thus says the Lord: to the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths, who choose the things that please me and hold fast to my covenant, I will give, in my house and within my walls, a monument better than sons and daughters, I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off."
Despite the slightly amusing pun, it rather flies in the face of the previous statement, doesn't it?
From Corinthians 5:19 - People may argue that body modification is wrong:
"If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you yourselves are his temple"
But from Mark 9:43-47:
"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell."
There are many ways to interpret this, but it can be easily interpreted as God still accepting you if you modify your body.
You may have heard this:
"A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God."
but in Galatians 3:28:
"there is neither male nor female, for we are all one in Christ Jesus."
and John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosover believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Also, if your parents where clothes combining cloth and linen, the Bible doesn't allow that either!
I am not anti religion, and while I don't strictly practise a religion, I do believe in the possibility of a higher presence, and do respect the positive elements of the human spirit that religion can bring about. However, religion can often be misused as a tool to oppress, particularly by quoting from the bible using select information. However, with the above quotes, you can at least argue back and give them something to think about.
Also, you seem to be close to your twin sister as mentioned in other threads - what does she think of it all?
Here's the thing about my church (LDS/Mormon): We believe in modern day prophets who receive revelation from God. Unfortunately for transgender members of the church, these "modern day prophets" have "revealed from God" that being transgender is immoral and against God's plan. You can read more about the official stance here:
http://lds.org/family/proclamation?lang=eng (http://lds.org/family/proclamation?lang=eng)
Ah, my twin sister is my best friend in the whole world. We are super close and do everything together. Unfortunately, she is tied with my mom as being my biggest opponent. She tells me that I'm a guy, that I'm doing wrong, and that I should try harder to make things work as a man.
Quote from: jdinatale on January 15, 2012, 10:14:14 PM
There are costs and benefits to every decision. By living at home I really am getting a killer deal - free room, board, utilities, laundry, a car, etc. I haven't had to take out ANY loans throughout college. I actually get paid ~$2,000 a semester by my school, just to go to school. Let that sink in...I get paid to go to school. If I moved out, I would lose all of those aforementioned benefits plus the $2000 (it would go towards living expenses). I would probably have to take out a loan.
I left my home, lived on campus and received an additional 8,000 dollars in scholarships for being an "out of the closet" fulltime transgender person in college. The scholarship would not have applied if I was a dependent or had not transition.
Also, I received a 6,000 scholarship from my school under the Johnson LGBT scholarship fund plus another 6,000 scholarship for academics. I have a surplus of 15,000 dollars a year in pure scholarships (no pay back). After rent and utilities I have 10,000 dollars left. I have I would not have received this if I stayed at home, stayed a dependent, and did not transition.
Of course, I am not saying you should transition and move out because you can get more money...i am just showing you can benefit better than what you think.
QuoteSure, I would LOVE to be able to get out of this guy mode. But you have to make wise decisions in life. I think the smartest move is to save money and endure guy mode as best as possible for the next 1.5 years until I graduate.
Only you need to make your own decision and only you know what is best. I tried your way and I didn't get to transition until I was 35....and even then I took a chance. I find transitioning a lot like planning for pregnancy...no time is a good time. You just need to make that decision.
QuoteHere's what my bishop told me: "You are a male spirit in a male body. You were a male before you were born and you will be a male after you die." He said I just have been natured and nurtured to THINK I am a girl, but I'm not REALLY a girl. How do you argue with that?
How would i argue that? I would punch holes all over his fragile and misogynistic theology. I would quote many passages and then break them down.
However, the truth is, I would leave his church because he is a Bishop....he wont be changing his mind anytime soon. I wouldn't stay in a church where anyone would belittle me and try to use the Bible as a weapon.
Invite him over to my church.
The LDS is a lot like my formal denomination I worked for. I left it and went to a more loving church.
I'd imagine if your motivations are what you say they are then you won't find transition very fufilling or appealing.
Firstly, My sex drive immediately fell through the floor and dissapeared for 6 months it returned later but was much reduced.
Secondly my body or even my mind isn't even close to attributes that I find attractive, Good chance yours won't either. You have an idealized image and that's just not how your body works.
Thirdly... Is jacking off to a mirror really gonna keep you going when things get tough? It wouldn't me... Electrolysis is painful, Rejection from pepole you love hurts, Stigma and hate hurt, Jamming that needle into my leg is painful, isolation and begin misunderstood continually is painful. As most can tell I'm not a ball of giddy joy.
What keeps me going is when I see my arms and legs covered in scars I know I have to go forward because I remeber how before it was so painful I tried to kill myself.
I'm telling you this to warn you. The only real benifit to this whole process is the loss of gender dysphora. Whitch in my story was certainly worth it.
There is a time in life that we accept ourselves.
It may not be easy.
There will be losses and joys. We accept our decision because we make that decision with thought and preparation.
What is important to you? Not what is important to your twin, your Mum, your friends. What is important to you.
Make it simple.
If you see a child about to be run over and you can dive in front of the car and save it. Will you?
I would try and save the child, not a doubt in my mind.
You in fact face exactly the same decision.
Do you own you or does someone else own you?
Simple but tough.
Cindy
Quote from: pebbles on January 16, 2012, 03:25:35 AM
I'd imagine if your motivations are what you say they are then you won't find transition very fufilling or appealing.
Firstly, My sex drive immediately fell through the floor and dissapeared for 6 months it returned later but was much reduced.
Secondly my body or even my mind isn't even close to attributes that I find attractive, Good chance yours won't either. You have an idealized image and that's just not how your body works.
Thirdly... Is jacking off to a mirror really gonna keep you going when things get tough? It wouldn't me... Electrolysis is painful, Rejection from pepole you love hurts, Stigma and hate hurt, Jamming that needle into my leg is painful, isolation and begin misunderstood continually is painful. As most can tell I'm not a ball of giddy joy.
What keeps me going is when I see my arms and legs covered in scars I know I have to go forward because I remeber how before it was so painful I tried to kill myself.
I'm telling you this to warn you. The only real benifit to this whole process is the loss of gender dysphora. Whitch in my story was certainly worth it.
What are my motivations? That's something I ask myself everyday. The only sexually stimulating thought that exists for me is imagining myself as a woman, which is why I get so caught up on the term ->-bleeped-<-. Other than that, I am asexual. Ever since I was 3 at my earliest memories, I have enjoyed wearing women's clothes and have been fascinated by the idea of a boy turning into a girl. For whatever reason, I'd prefer a female's body and clothes to that of a man's. That's just how I am wired. But it's beyond just a sexual thing. I have felt these feelings 1.) when I was a toddler and obviously not sexual and 2.) currently while I have been on SSRI's that have killed my sex drive for the past year.
Quote from: jdinatale on January 16, 2012, 06:31:02 PM
... currently while I have been on SSRI's that have killed my sex drive for the past year.
You need to be careful with that whole class of antidepressants. You might find you moods pick up with the introduction of estrogen. Mine did. It was like a new day.
Quote from: jdinatale on January 15, 2012, 10:14:14 PM
snip
Here's what my bishop told me: "You are a male spirit in a male body. You were a male before you were born and you will be a male after you die." He said I just have been natured and nurtured to THINK I am a girl, but I'm not REALLY a girl. How do you argue with that?
You have posted nothing that would cause anyone to conclude you were raised to think you were a girl. In fact, it seems your family is dead set against it.
Your bishop seems off base.
You are in a tough situation and my heart goes out to you.
Quote from: Annah on January 15, 2012, 11:15:15 PM
I left my home, lived on campus and received an additional 8,000 dollars in scholarships for being an "out of the closet" fulltime transgender person in college. The scholarship would not have applied if I was a dependent or had not transition.
Also, I received a 6,000 scholarship from my school under the Johnson LGBT scholarship fund plus another 6,000 scholarship for academics. I have a surplus of 15,000 dollars a year in pure scholarships (no pay back). After rent and utilities I have 10,000 dollars left. I have I would not have received this if I stayed at home, stayed a dependent, and did not transition.
Of course, I am not saying you should transition and move out because you can get more money...i am just showing you can benefit better than what you think.
Only you need to make your own decision and only you know what is best. I tried your way and I didn't get to transition until I was 35....and even then I took a chance. I find transitioning a lot like planning for pregnancy...no time is a good time. You just need to make that decision.
How would i argue that? I would punch holes all over his fragile and misogynistic theology. I would quote many passages and then break them down.
However, the truth is, I would leave his church because he is a Bishop....he wont be changing his mind anytime soon. I wouldn't stay in a church where anyone would belittle me and try to use the Bible as a weapon.
Invite him over to my church.
The LDS is a lot like my formal denomination I worked for. I left it and went to a more loving church.
Annah, you probably know that LDS bishops are, in reality, lay pastors who have limited formal religious training.
jdinatale is not equipped at this time to face disfellowship or excommunication, with the loss of family and friends that may result. He's in a tough situation.
Quote from: jdinatale on January 08, 2012, 09:25:30 PM
It has gotten so severe and disruptive in my life that I decided to transition because it would be the only way I could ever be at peace. I was tired of living in a secret fantasy land. Now here I am almost a week into HRT and I'm very scared. Scared that I could be ruining my life. You see, there is both a huge chance of reward and a huge chance of failure. My life is now split into 4 branches and I do not know which way I am heading:
Just take the anti-androgen (no estrogen) for a while and see how you feel. This alone WILL lower your sex drive. If your interest in being a woman diminishes, then likely HRT is a bad idea for you.
If it stays the same or becomes stronger, your self diagnosis was wrong.
You can stop taking spiro after being on it a while and you should return to your former state. not sure how long you can be on E and not cause permanent changes.
Quote from: Jamie D on January 16, 2012, 10:26:21 PM
Annah, you probably know that LDS bishops are, in reality, lay pastors who have limited formal religious training.
Sadly, I agree. It's sad when people take such high religious offices with very little related education.