I realize this could blow back in my face but it bears serious consideration. In the States, there's a big debate about abortion and attempts to get it banned even in the case of rape or incest. Now, some of you have already had kids but I and probably others are absolutely terrified of carrying a...parasite in me. In fact, it kind of moves hysterectomy up on top of the list. What do you gentlemen think?
I'm always against abortion. Even thought I am terrified of children and even more of getting pregnant, I would rather commit suicide so both me and my child died than having killed somebody. And even though the person may not have a personality yet It still have a potential personality. Why would you want to kill a person that can't even think yet? Would you really kill a person because you have been raped? Would you want to kill 'Miles' that have a boyfriend named Andrew. He have several friends and dreams of being a teacher. Would you deny him his life because his father was stupid? I wouldn't. If you would do that. Should we also allow killing of children under a year old? Because they hardly have a personality too? Most people wouldn't. Why? I don't know. I don't understand it at all.
Well, I have believed that it's a woman's choice to do what she wants with her body, but I don't want to get into a debate, so I'll leave any other opinions on abortion out. If you really don't want to risk having kids, you can either never have sex with a male or get a hysterectomy. It's your decision what you want to do with your reproductive system, so I wouldn't listen to anyone other than yourself on this issue. Just remember that there are risks and costs to any surgery and, once again, take your opinion above anyone else's.
Quote from: Frank on August 30, 2012, 04:53:43 PM
Now, some of you have already had kids but I and probably others are absolutely terrified of carrying a...parasite in me. In fact, it kind of moves hysterectomy up on top of the list. What do you gentlemen think?
Gee Frank,
Isn't this just a bit insensitive to your fellow FtM's who became mothers before their decision to change gender? I'm sure they must love their children more than to consider them parasites! As for your concerns about getting pregnant, don't give it another thought, it ain't going to happen!
Quote from: Shantel on August 30, 2012, 05:48:13 PM
As for your concerns about getting pregnant, don't give it another thought, it ain't going to happen!
Ok, just to be clear, testosterone doesn't make it impossible for you to get pregnant. Less likely? Yes. Impossible? No. Just be careful, regardless of being on HRT.
As a dude who was raped and forced into vaginal sex with no form of birth control or protection, I believe that everyone should have a right to choose what they do with their bodies. We all have to do wt we need to do to survive, really.
I like to put it this way:
I am for the rights of women. That definitely includes being able to live long enough to be born and be able to grow up to be women.
I am for the right to choose what to do with one's own body. That includes the right to be able to grow to be old enough to choose for themselves without being killed. That includes choosing whether or not to risk getting pregnant. What I can't understand is how people (not all, but many) conveniently forget that they made that choice. Also, I believe they have the right to choose what to do with their own body. Their child's body (however many cells it has) belongs to their child.
I am against rape and rapists. Personally, I would rather the rapist get killed instead of a completely blameless person, but I also understand that I was lucky not to end up in that situation and cannot make an informed decision in that regard.
Um...think of what?
If you want an abortion, get one. I do think the ban on late term abortions in most states is acceptable (although it's a complicated situation).
I've heard since abortions are harder to get in some areas (many more rules and in some cases very hard to get) there has been an increase of non-medical, back alley type abortions. There is a reason the coat hanger was a symbol of abortions that were illegal and back alley.
I do think it's a difficult subject, and I wouldn't put myself down as "pro-abortion". I just feel that people need to have choices in difficult (and impossible situations).
--Jay Jay
Abortion was not right for me, personally, but I think women need to have the right to control their own bodies.
I'm pro-choice but could and would never get an abortion if god-forbid something happened to me. But I also have no intention of giving birth myself, I'll leave that one for my future wife. My mom always tells me about this girl she went to high school with. She kept getting pregnant and having abortions, at least SIX of them if you can believe it. Then she grew up, got married, decided to have kids.. and gave birth to a child with down syndrome. That story sticks with me.
If I was raped and I got pregnant, I would have an abortion in a heartbeat. No thought process, no questions asked. I'd be at the clinic tomorrow.
Quote from: Shantel on August 30, 2012, 05:48:13 PM
Gee Frank,
Isn't this just a bit insensitive to your fellow FtM's who became mothers before their decision to change gender? I'm sure they must love their children more than to consider them parasites! As for your concerns about getting pregnant, don't give it another thought, it ain't going to happen!
He isn't insulting those of us who have kids. He is saying that he views pregnancy as being something that he couldn't do because he views himself as male. Men don't get pregnant so emotionally he would equate it to being like a parasite. For the record, I know plenty of women who have had kids and referred to their pregnancies that way. They love their kids and hated being pregnant. So, no, he isn't being rude or unreasonable I would say. Pregnancy is something that a lot FTMs have to worry about so I think its reasonable for us to talk about it. For Frank, depending on his stage of transition, partners and circumstances may have to worry about it, so its a valid topic.
Quote from: KyleXX on August 30, 2012, 08:48:26 PM
I'm pro-choice but could and would never get an abortion if god-forbid something happened to me. But I also have no intention of giving birth myself, I'll leave that one for my future wife. My mom always tells me about this girl she went to high school with. She kept getting pregnant and having abortions, at least SIX of them if you can believe it. Then she grew up, got married, decided to have kids.. and gave birth to a child with down syndrome. That story sticks with me.
I doubt a doctor would do six abortions on a teenager. Not even the most liberal of people I have met would consider that reasonable and I know that most doctors who do abortions wouldn't consider that reasonable. Also, there is no connection between abortions and Down Syndrome. But even if there was an unlikely event that it was maybe connected it would be well documented. Also, people with Down Syndrome are still people, and some of the sweetest people I have ever met have had it. People who are born different are not inferior humans at all.
For the record, I'm pro-choice. I've had an abortion and I would do it over again. I know people who have had them and I know people who have chosen against having one. I think the right to choose is an important one and I frankly think every woman as the right to seek it out. If we make abortions illegal and then we are just going to have a rise in botched abortion deaths going up. If someone doesn't want to have the kid, they will find a way not to. Simple as that. It happened in a village in Alaska - they closed the planned parenthood, local doctor wouldn't do the abortion, so a rape victim died trying to give herself an abortion. In this day and age that is unreasonable.
Common arguments against it would be that they fetus has a soul or can feel. Scientifically it isn't true. It doesn't even start to resemble a developed human until it the last trimester. People argue that its murder, but I don't agree with that either - if it cannot live outside the human body then it cannot be given personhood or be considered a person. The last argument I have heard is people saying "Oh, but then teenagers will be getting abortions all the time!". So, in this case, teach them about safe sex. Take out abstinence only education because telling a bunch of teenagers with crazy emotions not to have sex is silly. Teach them the realities of sex and maybe teen pregnancy would go down. Saying someone would use abortion as a valid form of birth control could only come from the lips of someone who has never had one. They are painful. Incredibly so. So no, I don't see someone putting themselves through terrible pain to prevent having a kid. It sucks to bleed for three weeks and cramp so bad that you can't walk. Adults can barely handle the pain, I doubt a 15 year old would seek it out.
This isn't to say that there should be no regulations, but we certainly shouldn't make it illegal. From my perspective its like me saying that I don't agree with porn so it shouldn't exist. And we all know how well that would work out. *And before anyone throws up the "but porn doesn't harm human life" argument against me, I will say that actually, it certainly can depending on if the people in it were forced or not, and I don't consider a fetus a person. I consider it a potential human. Oh, and before I forget, people have been having abortions for the last 5,000 years on record. They did it in Ancient Egypt. It's also pretty ethnocentric considering in some cultures abortion isn't even an issue, so imposing a blanket western view on it doesn't work.
I'm pro-choice. All it means in the end is that I respect someone's right to choose. My father is anti-abortion and pro-choice because he realizes that it is not something he ever has to worry about and he has no right to tell someone they can't do it. Just as a note. Being pro-choice doesn't mean that you are pro-abortion. I think everyone would rather not wish a painful medical procedure on anyone.
I'll use my friend Sara's statement to sum up my opinion. "Its a bunch of right old white men trying to tell me what do to with my body. When they can get knocked up, they can talk about the issue seriously." So, I don't see the moral or ethical issues with abortions. Frankly, its just a way to further control the womb-having population, as far as I'm concerned.
I would much rather people had abortions than brought up a child they didn't want, love or have the means to care for. Does that make me a bad person and a potential baby-murder? I don't think so, I can't see what's morally wrong with wanting to prevent someone from growing up having a truly awful childhood and being miserable for however many years of their life. I'm not sure where I stand on abortions for people who discover they are carrying a disabled person - either mentally or physically - I think it depends on the individual case, their condition and the situation the parents are in, particularly in countries where healthcare isn't free and some poorer families might not be able to afford to give the child the medical attention they need for a good quality of life (there could be some provision for this, I don't know as we have the NHS here.)
As for rapists, I know I couldn't have a child that was the result of rape. It would mentally destroy me I think. It was hard enough for me to move on from getting sexually assaulted by my 'best friend', and had to get rid of the mobile as it was the same as his, the xBox games he'd lent me, change the vocabulary I'd picked up from him and even then things like sleeping on the left hand side of someone freaked me out because that's how he was. To have a constant reminder every time I looked at the child would be impossible to get over and even the fear of it would be enough to make me want an abortion, especially knowing that I would always be able to see physical traits he'd given them. If I ever have children I'd want to love them with my whole heart and bring them up as well as I could, otherwise I don't think it's fair on them, and I know I'd not be able to if part of me was always scared that I'd not be able to cope with the memories they remind me of.
Abortions for people who are just plain careless/sleep around/can't be bothered with protection are another matter entirely, but I'd still stick with my first point about the kid needing to grow up being loved and cared for properly. And of course, there are some situations were it is necessary for medical reasons, for example someone I know would probably die if she had another child, but if something was to happen where she fell pregnant through say, rape, or a condom failing, or the Pill not working, is it morally right to sit and do nothing for 9 months knowing that she would probably die in labour (and the baby might as well) when you could of saved her life for certain for the price of a few bundles of emotionless cells?
Of course these are just my views and I fully agree that abortions aren't just another method of birth control, but I do think they're something that should be available, and not just for rape victims or FTMs. Personally if I got pregnant - unless it was some seriously exceptional circumstances - I'd want to have an abortion, but I don't know whether I would actually be able to admit and accept that I was pregnant, I have a habit of refusing to believe things that prove my body is genetically female - when I started puberty as a kid I convinced myself I had cancer until I was terrified because I wouldn't accept that they were breasts.
Quote from: Alex000000 on August 30, 2012, 09:24:27 PM
I would much rather people had abortions than brought up a child they didn't want, love or have the means to care for. Does that make me a bad person and a potential baby-murder? I don't think so, I can't see what's morally wrong with wanting to prevent someone from growing up having a truly awful childhood and being miserable for however many years of their life. I'm not sure where I stand on abortions for people who discover they are carrying a disabled person - either mentally or physically - I think it depends on the individual case, their condition and the situation the parents are in, particularly in countries where healthcare isn't free and some poorer families might not be able to afford to give the child the medical attention they need for a good quality of life (there could be some provision for this, I don't know as we have the NHS here.)
As for rapists, I know I couldn't have a child that was the result of rape. It would mentally destroy me I think. It was hard enough for me to move on from getting sexually assaulted by my 'best friend', and had to get rid of the mobile as it was the same as his, the xBox games he'd lent me, change the vocabulary I'd picked up from him and even then things like sleeping on the left hand side of someone freaked me out because that's how he was. To have a constant reminder every time I looked at the child would be impossible to get over and even the fear of it would be enough to make me want an abortion, especially knowing that I would always be able to see physical traits he'd given them. If I ever have children I'd want to love them with my whole heart and bring them up as well as I could, otherwise I don't think it's fair on them, and I know I'd not be able to if part of me was always scared that I'd not be able to cope with the memories they remind me of.
+1. I was coming back to add this, but you worded it perfectly.
Quote from: Alex000000 on August 30, 2012, 09:24:27 PM
I would much rather people had abortions than brought up a child they didn't want, love or have the means to care for.
I agree!
Quote from: Ayden on August 30, 2012, 09:15:43 PM
I doubt a doctor would do six abortions on a teenager. Not even the most liberal of people I have met would consider that reasonable and I know that most doctors who do abortions wouldn't consider that reasonable. Also, there is no connection between abortions and Down Syndrome. But even if there was an unlikely event that it was maybe connected it would be well documented. Also, people with Down Syndrome are still people, and some of the sweetest people I have ever met have had it. People who are born different are not inferior humans at all.
It was the 70s and it's not like she was required to go to the same doctor over and over, or give them her abortion history. also i never said there was a connection to down syndrome or that people with downs are bad or whatever. I've met plenty of incredible people and kids with down syndrome. In 5th grade I volunteered with the special needs pre-school class at my school and played with the coolest little boy (who happened to have down syndrome) every week and it was the best experience. Then in 6th grade at a new school I spent half my PE classes with the special needs class playing sports and stuff and developed great friendships with a boy and girl my age who also happened to have down syndrome. Moving out of state at the end of that year was especially hard on me because my new schools in california didn't have any of these programs for me to volunteer with. As I and multiple members of my family have learning disabilities, I've always felt driven to help those who have it worse than myself. So I'm sorry but, I'm a little offended by your assumptions of me as a person. You obviously do not know me at all and I'd appreciate it if you'd ask first next time.
I'm relieved that there are other guys who have the same revulsion towards pregnancy that I do. I don't particularly like or want kids, and I certainly can't afford them, and those factors contribute to my desire not to become pregnant, but mostly I just find the idea horrifying. It's nice to know other people do too. As it turns out I don't appear to produce eggs, but if I did I'd certainly be taking steps to get hysto.
As far as abortion goes, that's something I think each person has to make their own choice about if they find themselves in that situation. I do believe that the choice should be available, and I also think it's better to have an abortion than to raise a child you don't want or love.
Quote from: KyleXX on August 30, 2012, 10:40:13 PM
It was the 70s and it's not like she was required to go to the same doctor over and over, or give them her abortion history. also i never said there was a connection to down syndrome or that people with downs are bad or whatever. I've met plenty of incredible people and kids with down syndrome. In 5th grade I volunteered with the special needs pre-school class at my school and played with the coolest little boy (who happened to have down syndrome) every week and it was the best experience. Then in 6th grade at a new school I spent half my PE classes with the special needs class playing sports and stuff and developed great friendships with a boy and girl my age who also happened to have down syndrome. Moving out of state at the end of that year was especially hard on me because my new schools in california didn't have any of these programs for me to volunteer with. As I and multiple members of my family have learning disabilities, I've always felt driven to help those who have it worse than myself. So I'm sorry but, I'm a little offended by your assumptions of me as a person. You obviously do not know me at all and I'd appreciate it if you'd ask first next time.
I wasn't trying to offend you. I was just saying that abortion does not lead to disabilities. If I seemed harsh it is because I have heard that same argument come from the mouths of so many right wing old men who take the choice away from women. I have heard pastors tell rape victims that if they got an abortion then when they tried to have kids the devil would give them a deformed child. I wasn't accusing you. I was saying its a story that people use and it does not necessarily have any foundation. I only had what you wrote, and I misinterpreted your meaning. So, I apologize. My father in law works with the disabled and my husband hopes to one day. I also have disabled people in my family, including my little brother, and I have been trying to protect him from people's harshness his whole life. So, its a sensitive topic for me too.
Quote from: DianaP on August 30, 2012, 05:53:52 PM
Ok, just to be clear, testosterone doesn't make it impossible for you to get pregnant. Less likely? Yes. Impossible? No. Just be careful, regardless of being on HRT.
This.
Their body, their choice. People forget that pro-choice =/= pro-abortion. It's not like pro-choicers are out there forcibly aborting people. They want them to have the right to choose what to do with their body.
You know, I was going to start a topic like this because of how hearing about all this rape stuff in the news lately made me feel. Some of the flippancy of the republican candidates in regards to rape and the inexplicable ignorance of biological facts just left me enraged. I mean, I was enraged FOR women and then I thought to myself, wait a minute, most people would think I AM a women and this would all apply to me ... And then it dredged up all the hatred I have just for my own body and how there's still people out there who think that the only purpose of females is just to pop out babies – whether they want to or not – whether that "condition" was forced on them or not. It's simply because women are the ones that carry the babies that they're subjected to this sort of thing of course and that made me feel even more like I don't even want anyone to associate me with that gender at all. Just the notion that "rape is a legitimate form of conception" seems like it came out the 1500's not 21st century. I'm not cool with anyone being forced to do something they don't want to do.
But I really don't know what to think of the whole abortion thing anymore. When it comes to rape and incest, my own personal belief is that the choice should remain with the victim. I'm sure there's a statistic out there somewhere that some victims do choose to have the baby. There's just plenty of female bodied people out there who could not morally live with themselves if they had an abortion, regardless of the circumstances. As for female bodied people who do make that choice, I think it's probably one of the hardest they'd ever make in their lives. I'm sure it's the same type of feeling as wanting a child, getting pregnant, and then miscarrying ... or finding out the baby is stillborn or has some sort of massive malfunction where it wasn't likely it would live very long. It's all just messed up no matter how you want to look at it. I believe that life does start with conception but I also believe that there's a hell of a lot more to life than meets the eye. My own personal belief is that if a fetus is never born, that lifeforce goes somewhere else, or into another fetus. That might be some rose-colored way to look at it but it suits me. I have a massive phobia of pregnancy (or even being around pregnant women). I also have a massive respect for those who choose to bring a life into the world and sacrifice a little bit of their own lives to do it.
But when it comes to laws about abortion, I think some of them are getting kind of crazy. Like this "personhood" thing and that one thing where they're counting "conception" back to the first day of the menstrual cycle (when that can be 2 weeks before someone got pregnant). What if a women legitimately miscarries ... would she be under suspicion of terminating her own pregnancy and held legally accountable ... or subjected to medical tests to determine if she "did anything" to cause it? There's so many gray areas and questions. You can't just say, "it's murder any way you slice it!" I mean, if a human body can terminate a pregnancy on it's own, that's nature, that's not "choice" ... are you still a "murderer" then? Also, there's a % of people who, if they got pregnant, probably would go the illegal route to terminate a pregnancy if abortion would be made illegal. I would think transmen would be part of that percentage just for the plain and simple fact that for a lot of them it would be so wrong they'd rather die than go through it (hell most of us won't even make a trip to the gyno, so pregnancy is just completely off the table).
Quote from: Andy8715 on August 30, 2012, 11:40:37 PM
This.
Their body, their choice. People forget that pro-choice =/= pro-abortion. It's not like pro-choicers are out there forcibly aborting people. They want them to have the right to choose what to do with their body.
This is true. What I also find a little fascinating is that a lot of pro-lifers seem to be all about pro-life BEFORE birth, but then it's a non-issue after birth? What is up with that? Like I don't see them in line at the adoption clinic to take care of all the crack babies or babies born with disabilities or into horrible environments. It's just all about bringing that baby to term and into the world. I don't get that. Maybe there's some out there who do adopt or donate to different causes but it's never mentioned ... at least I don't see it. It's all just about anti-abortion.
I guess I could say I'm pro-life after birth. Hell I even looked into adoption and "drug baby" was a very high possibility and I was willing to do it anyway ... I just didn't have $15,000 (which is kind of the average adoption agencies want to charge you for the whole process).
I'm so glad I live in England and this battle doesn't constantly rage on over here about whether or not abortion should be illegal. IF it was illegal, people would still get abortions.
Pregnancy is massively demanding and parenthood even more so. I see endless teenagers/idiots with children who they neglect and the world is becoming overpopulated with morons who insist on continuing to breed, the foster care and adoption services are stretched as thin as they possibly can be from all the unwanted children being brought into the world. I don't even want to imagine what the world would be like if nobody was allowed an abortion.
If I got pregnant again I would abort without a second thought...and I don't want anyone to think I'm using abortion as my plan A. My partner has had a vasectomy AND we use condoms AND I'm on E-blockers - the changes of me ever getting pregnant again are very slim but it's nice to know I have that choice there if I need it. If that choice wasn't there I would never have sex again until my insides were removed.
Sure in an ideal world contraception would never fail and nobody would ever get raped. But these things happen. The only sure fire way to make sure abortions would never be needed is if everyone was celibate until they actually wanted children and rapists didn't exist. Which is just unrealistic.
Banning abortion doesn't stop it. Statistics back me up. Every year, the WHO reports that nearly 42 million people across the world had abortions, about 20 million of those were illegal and unsafe (and that's just the reported ones). So the only thing banning abortion would bring is clogging up our already overpopulated jails XP.
I'm not here to discuss the ethics of abortion since most people who have already chosen a side on this debate will never change their minds no matter what. No one needs to know how I actually feel about abortion on a personal level either. That is between me, God, my partner, and my uterus which I "affectionately" call my tumor sack (uterine tumors run in the family).
I will say (since it was brought up) that pregnancy is horrible and childbirth is a freaking bloodbath @_@. I do not care who I offend, I've seen the worst in pregnancy and my mind will never change! D:< Hell, one of my friends is suffering from hyperemesis right now (google it :'P). She's actually connected to a PICC line right now and on total bed rest so she may actually gain some weight XP. While she loves her fetus, she is counting down the days till it's out and she can feel somewhat normal again. By the way, she personally refers to it as fetus, parasite, and alien xD. It's movements are so creepy o.o. You can see the kicking through her skin! D: She hates the movements XP. She's actually decided she's done having kids after this. Poor bastard, I don't blame her ;_;.
My biggest want in life is to have a family, I love children, yet I accepted at a young age that I would be unable to have children. I cant produce sperm, and the "other" way was never an option in my mind (and now would be impossible, so I am sterile now!)
So this is where my standpoint comes from. In terms of rape, especially of children, I think yes, abortion should be allowed. However there should still be rules and regulations around this to make sure people who dont legitimately need one, fall through, such as people who just couldnt be bothered to use protection before hand (this is much easier said than done Im sure, so Im glad I dont have to sort and regulate this :p but in an ideal world people would just be honest, haha)
Other than cases like rape, I dont think people should be allowed abortions. There are cases where these womens rights go too far and the guy didnt even get a say in the situation.
And like had been mentioned before, there are still cases of women and girls having a ridiculous amount of abortions, as if its some easy post conception contraception (rhyme).
I think it gets out of hand, how many abortions are allowed to happen. In some cases, yes it should be allowed, but not nearly as many as there are, and the late abortions are just ridiculous.
For people who want but cant have children without a lengthy and pricey process, abortions happening all the time is just upsetting.
Anyway, thats my opinion there...
Quote from: Make_It_Good on August 31, 2012, 05:43:37 AM
In terms of rape, especially of children, I think yes, abortion should be allowed. However there should still be rules and regulations around this to make sure people who dont legitimately need one, fall through, such as people who just couldnt be bothered to use protection before hand (this is much easier said than done Im sure, so Im glad I dont have to sort and regulate this :p but in an ideal world people would just be honest, haha)
If they couldn't be bothered to use protection then are they going to be bothered to raise a child properly? I'm not attacking your views, we've all got the right to believe what we feel is right, just wondering if you've thought about that.
I will say I'm also very much in favor of "abortion prevention." In many European countries the attitude towards sex is much different than it is here in the US which is part of the reason why the abortion rate is lower.
If contraception in all of its various forms were made available for everybody who is sexually active (and yes, this includes access to people who are minors and people with very low incomes). Young people should be educated about sex, and forms of birth control before they're having sex. In my school we didn't have a comprehensive sex education course until our junior year in high school (age 16/17). Students were not allowed to take the course until that year.
My college sex ed course which was much more comprehensive proved (to me at least) that schools aren't very good at educating people about sexual health. Most of the guys who were bragging about how much action they got didn't know how to properly use a condom and many admitted to not using condoms all the time. I also remember the professor spoke about a survey that used to be done after a semester of sex ed. Students had sex as often or less often after taking the course. Many got tested for STDs because of the course who never were tested before.
I think abortion should be legal as long as it not for "small details" where you pick and leave, whatever you want.
---
But I belive the mother is the one who will cary and raise and the child, if she isn't mentally, or physically, or have the money,
to raise a kid and know it, then I dont find it wrong as I belive it can cause more damage than good.
remember in some of those caises where people die from giving birth, or the kids are trown away in garbish just because they know they cant afford to keep it.
I belive if people arnt ready and get abortion they might be ready later in life to get a new chance where they can give there child a proper life, kids are a big responsibilaty, and if you know you cant take care of them, then you shouldnt have them, its like animals. dont get a dog if you only will let ot starve.
Quote from: Nygeel on August 31, 2012, 11:00:15 AM
If contraception in all of its various forms were made available for everybody who is sexually active (and yes, this includes access to people who are minors and people with very low incomes). Young people should be educated about sex, and forms of birth control before they're having sex. In my school we didn't have a comprehensive sex education course until our junior year in high school (age 16/17). Students were not allowed to take the course until that year.
when I was in school we started having sexual education during 6 grade (around 12 years old) in the standard basic, where we learned about love, puberty, and body changes.
after then we got more serious topic, like sexual crimes,
laws, preventions, illness and so from 8-10 grade.
(14-17 year old..)
16 year sound old to me, as most people here usunaly have there first time between 14-17. I agree its important to know how to protect yourself. it should be something everyone had to learn a few years before you expected them to to something about it. I am alittle disapointed that mostly sexual education isnt seam like a big deal in school. Is only something you got once in a while.
But I got it with many repeatings since I changed class, and got new pupils who also had to get it repeated. So I turned out as the class sex expert on a few topics LOL..
XD
I had my first sex ed lesson waaaay young. I wasn't even in high school, so around 10 years old?
They showed us a full on video recording of a woman giving birth, it was horrendous.
Quote from: Jeatyn on August 31, 2012, 02:19:55 PM
I had my first sex ed lesson waaaay young. I wasn't even in high school, so around 10 years old?
They showed us a full on video recording of a woman giving birth, it was horrendous.
My parents read me "The Book of Sex" when I was 5...
Quote from: Alex000000 on August 31, 2012, 07:22:51 AM
If they couldn't be bothered to use protection then are they going to be bothered to raise a child properly? I'm not attacking your views, we've all got the right to believe what we feel is right, just wondering if you've thought about that.
I think its good to hear other peoples countering views, it can help me see a point I may have missed! In terms of your response, I would say that I guess there are many cases where people are just "caught in the moment" which can lead to unprotected sex, and therefore them not using protection, may not demonstrate any inability they have to put effort into things, including something as big as raising a child. Even people who simply cant be bothered to use a condom, and/or had no desire for kids, afterward find that in them was alot of space to grow and learn to love the child and passionately and lovingly raise them.
Having a child thats your own flesh and blood can change people (not everyone, mind you...)
I know the pain of being born to parents who weren't ready. Maybe some people can rise to the challenge of an unexpected child, but others can't.
I had a sex-ed class here in Aus every year from year four (8-10 years old) through to the end of college (17-19 years old), obviously stepping up in intensity as the students aged.
It's not a big topic here, but it does come up every now and then, and I personally am pro-choice. I'm not sure what I think of late-stage abortions though, as I consider an abortion to be something someone would do when they know they cannot carry/care for/deal with having/etc a child. It would be something they would need to think about for a few weeks, or maybe something they would know in an instant, but months?
But I do not see anything wrong with a woman getting an abortion if she knows she cannot give the child the life that it deserves. I consider this kind of 'life' that we're talking about to be 'awareness'. That new phoetus has no personality, no memories, no feelings, no emotions, and so in my own personal opinion I do not yet consider it 'life'. So of course to me it does not follow that this is 'a life taken', or 'murder'. I believe a person is the mind, not the flesh.
On the legal matter, I think no matter what your personal opinion or view is on the matter, this medical practice cannot be made illegal. Thousands would die or suffer severe complications during unsafe and unhygenic home abortions.
As to the men being given a say, well yes, they should have some say. That is why they should go to the woman and plead their case, make real promises of commitment, or of financial/emotional/physical aid to make her journey with the child easier. But should they have any legal right? No. It is utterly wrong for anyone to force a woman to go through unwanted pregnancy. I liken this to the same kind of crime and psychology as torture or rape, and would undoubtedly cause inconceivable repercussions to the mother and child's mental, emotional, and physical wellbeing.
I think that as soon as conception occurs life has begun for the "cells," though I would call it a baby, in the womb. As such, I think that child deserves just as much protection as I do. I am for the saving of life in all cases. I know, even though my life is hard, I would have not wanted my mom to abort me. Life is sacred, and it is a gift beyond our greatest imagination. I know many will hate me for saying this, but it is simply what I believe. People hate me for being a woman, and people can hate me for loving life.
Quote from: Hippolover25 on August 31, 2012, 06:17:52 PM
I think that as soon as conception occurs life has begun for the "cells," though I would call it a baby, in the womb. As such, I think that child deserves just as much protection as I do. I am for the saving of life in all cases. I know, even though my life is hard, I would have not wanted my mom to abort me. Life is sacred, and it is a gift beyond our greatest imagination. I know many will hate me for saying this, but it is simply what I believe. People hate me for being a woman, and people can hate me for loving life.
I share your beliefs, fortunately you and I will never have to make that decision. I'm never critical of those who feel that they have to for whatever reason because we all have free will and our decisions are our own to live with. I strongly disagree with those who protest in front of abortion clinics and try to interfere with other people's decisions concerning their life and the life inside of them, the business of making judgments belongs to God and not other human beings. So far I've yet to see one of those protesters step up to the plate and offer to pay for and support the unborn fetus until it reaches adulthood.
Quote from: Alex000000 on August 31, 2012, 07:22:51 AM
If they couldn't be bothered to use protection then are they going to be bothered to raise a child properly?
Abortion is a form of birth control.
Quote from: Bane on August 31, 2012, 06:04:12 PM
As to the men being given a say, well yes, they should have some say. That is why they should go to the woman and plead their case, make real promises of commitment, or of financial/emotional/physical aid to make her journey with the child easier. But should they have any legal right? No. It is utterly wrong for anyone to force a woman to go through unwanted pregnancy. I liken this to the same kind of crime and psychology as torture or rape, and would undoubtedly cause inconceivable repercussions to the mother and child's mental, emotional, and physical wellbeing.
I agree. Can a man try to convince a woman to have a baby? Sure. However, in the end, it is 100% HER DECISION. Pregnancy sucks; it comes with mood swings, bloating, weight gain, fatigue, insomnia, swelling of feet, and many other effects. Aside from the physical, it's also not fair to put a woman through the emotional burden of pregnancy, and even financial burden. What if she has a physical job? If she's a firefighter, especially in the UK where maternity benefits for female firefighters are, in lack of a better word, lacking, what is she to do? The bottom line is that everyone is entitled to their opinion on this issue, but no one has the right to put women through something they don't want to do. (Sounds a bit misogynistic to me.)
Quote from: Hippolover25 on August 31, 2012, 06:17:52 PM
I would have not wanted my mom to abort me. Life is sacred, and it is a gift beyond our greatest imagination. I know many will hate me for saying this, but it is simply what I believe.
Well, I may disagree with you on when life truly begins, but know that I for one don't hate you. You're entitled to your opinion. However, I also disagree with the idea of not wanting to be aborted. Honestly, I wouldn't care if I was aborted simply because I would not have been sentient, yet alone know that I even existed. Life isn't perfect and a fetus has nothing to come to the world to live for, nor can it perceive anything, so I don't see anything wrong with abortion at any stage. Some people can change their minds at any point in pregnancy. It's her choice.
Quote from: insideontheoutside on August 31, 2012, 12:51:00 AM
This is true. What I also find a little fascinating is that a lot of pro-lifers seem to be all about pro-life BEFORE birth, but then it's a non-issue after birth? What is up with that? Like I don't see them in line at the adoption clinic to take care of all the crack babies or babies born with disabilities or into horrible environments. It's just all about bringing that baby to term and into the world. I don't get that. Maybe there's some out there who do adopt or donate to different causes but it's never mentioned ... at least I don't see it. It's all just about anti-abortion.
I guess I could say I'm pro-life after birth. Hell I even looked into adoption and "drug baby" was a very high possibility and I was willing to do it anyway ... I just didn't have $15,000 (which is kind of the average adoption agencies want to charge you for the whole process).
This is actually a huge part of the debate from a lot of my friends. What happens to the unwanted kids after they are born? Who takes care of them? They just go into a overburdened and underfunded child welfare system that can't take care of them. For the people who do want to adopt them, they can't afford to for the most part. Frankly though, the people who are lining up to adopt are slim on the ground it seems. Most want to adopt children from foreign nations (not sure if its "trendy" because of celebrities or they think those kids need it more) which actually costs more to do so. People who are willing to adopt children who have special needs, are born with drug addiction or are high risk are very few and far between. Sadly, I have even seen skin color come into play and its sad.
Quote from: Make_It_Good on August 31, 2012, 05:43:27 PM
I think its good to hear other peoples countering views, it can help me see a point I may have missed! In terms of your response, I would say that I guess there are many cases where people are just "caught in the moment" which can lead to unprotected sex, and therefore them not using protection, may not demonstrate any inability they have to put effort into things, including something as big as raising a child. Even people who simply cant be bothered to use a condom, and/or had no desire for kids, afterward find that in them was alot of space to grow and learn to love the child and passionately and lovingly raise them.
Having a child thats your own flesh and blood can change people (not everyone, mind you...)
Alex beat me to the question. :laugh: But, what about couples who do take precautions and the birth control fails? I was on the pill and my partner was using condoms and I still ended up pregnant. In our case, we were poor. He was in college and I was only working part time since I moved out at 16 and had not gotten a full time position yet, so between us we only had maybe enough to cover the bills and even then there were days that we went without eating because we had unexpected bills come up. Not all abortions are used as birth control, in some cases its a situation that could be potentially really bad for everyone involved. It is not rape, but wouldn't a situation like that make an abortion understandable? (Don't get me wrong I'm not attacking you at all, I'm just having fun now.)
Quote from: edderkopp on August 31, 2012, 05:47:08 PM
I know the pain of being born to parents who weren't ready. Maybe some people can rise to the challenge of an unexpected child, but others can't.
This was me too. I was the first and my parents were not ready and a result I went through some pretty awful experiences that I wouldn't wish on any other person. Not even my worst enemy should have to feel like that. I hope your relationship with your parents got better as time went on.
Quote from: Bane on August 31, 2012, 06:04:12 PM
On the legal matter, I think no matter what your personal opinion or view is on the matter, this medical practice cannot be made illegal. Thousands would die or suffer severe complications during unsafe and unhygenic home abortions.
As to the men being given a say, well yes, they should have some say. That is why they should go to the woman and plead their case, make real promises of commitment, or of financial/emotional/physical aid to make her journey with the child easier. But should they have any legal right? No. It is utterly wrong for anyone to force a woman to go through unwanted pregnancy. I liken this to the same kind of crime and psychology as torture or rape, and would undoubtedly cause inconceivable repercussions to the mother and child's mental, emotional, and physical wellbeing.
On the father's rights - sure, he has rights, but he does not have control over the mother. End of story. He can promise to be there, support her, take care of the child after birth. He can even say he will take care of the child and she doesn't have too. But, forcing a woman to go through with it is what I would equate to torture. I've seen first had the kind of mental damage and later emotional abuse that happens when someone is convinced to keep a child they didn't want. It is really awful.
Quote from: Andy8715 on August 31, 2012, 07:40:51 PM
Abortion is a form of birth control.
A lot of people feel this way, and yes in a way it is. But, they are really very painful. I cannot see anyone willingly going through with them repeatedly. I have a very high pain thresh hold and I certainly would not want another one.
Quote from: Hippolover25 on August 31, 2012, 06:17:52 PM
I think that as soon as conception occurs life has begun for the "cells," though I would call it a baby, in the womb. As such, I think that child deserves just as much protection as I do. I am for the saving of life in all cases. I know, even though my life is hard, I would have not wanted my mom to abort me. Life is sacred, and it is a gift beyond our greatest imagination. I know many will hate me for saying this, but it is simply what I believe. People hate me for being a woman, and people can hate me for loving life.
You certainly have the right to your beliefs, but forcing your beliefs on someone else is not right. I will totally defend your right to feel that way, as long as you don't force me to do anything with my uterus. Equate it to Christian Scientists who believe that prayer, not medicine heals. It is their right to believe that, but they do not have the right to tell someone they cannot seek treatment for an illness. In hindsight, I'm glad my mother didn't abort me too and I'm glad that there are a lot of people whose parents didn't end the pregnancies.
The thing that people seem to forget in all this is that people don't line up for abortions like a free candy giveaway. Not only are they very painful but in the states there is a horrible social stigma attached to someone who chose to for a variety of reasons. Because I was poor, couldn't afford it, have a terrible fear of anything related to pregnancy, had two forms of contraception that failed, and knew I was not in place to raise a kid (lest I repeat my parents mistakes), I had to have the stigma of being loose, a slut, a heartless b****, an immature kid, etc attached to me. No matter what people may say, it is not an easy choice and once you experience it once I can promise only the most hardcore of masochists would want to experience it again.
A question related to this: If abortion were illegal, what punishment should be given to women who have abortions?
Quote from: Andy8715 on August 31, 2012, 09:42:05 PM
A question related to this: If abortion were illegal, what punishment should be given to women who have abortions?
This is kind of where I was going with the thought that, if they made it illegal and with some of these new things they want to pass, would even women whose bodies naturally abort (miscarry) be under scrutiny?
Besides all that, if a law passes that considers it murder, then I would imagine the punishment would be similar to other forms of murder. Kind of a scary thought.
I mean I definitely think there needs to be rules – but there already are. It's definitely one of those where do you draw the line arguments that no one can really win. But making something like this illegal has very bad repercussions as well.
Thank you all for your responses and civilized conversation, it's been great hearing well thought out responses. :)
Andy, if it were illegal and there were consequences, I would suspect "minor" murder charges that end with jail time like two to five years. We all know people can get carried away though, and an innocent woman would probably end up in jail for twenty years or otherwise getting treated ridiculously.
I think a lot of people haven't been able to put themselves in someone elses shoes for this kinda stuff. I am pro choice i sat there with a friend way back in high school when her doctor told her she would die if she kept the baby cause her reprouctive system wasnt right. I sat there with her also when she had her abortion. I decided to never have one and thought it shouldn't be a problem since i only like women right? well i was wrong I was raped andI was faced with that choice. I decided to keep him and I am glad I did cause he's awesome. I had to make a lot of sacrafices when that happened I was only 17 and ended up flunking my last year of highschool and had to repeat it after he was born not everyone is ready or willing to make those sacrafices due to someone else forcing themselves on you. I think it should be up to the person not anyone else and they should have any option avaliable .
Quote from: insideontheoutside on August 31, 2012, 10:29:18 PM
This is kind of where I was going with the thought that, if they made it illegal and with some of these new things they want to pass, would even women whose bodies naturally abort (miscarry) be under scrutiny?
Besides all that, if a law passes that considers it murder, then I would imagine the punishment would be similar to other forms of murder. Kind of a scary thought.
I mean I definitely think there needs to be rules – but there already are. It's definitely one of those where do you draw the line arguments that no one can really win. But making something like this illegal has very bad repercussions as well.
This was something that came up when my friend and I were talking about the law that wanted to make the date of conception the last day of the last cycle. About 70% of pregnancies miscarry without anyone ever noticing. The human body naturally will miscarry if there is something fundamentally wrong with the cells. It seems frightening to think that some of the radicals want women to held accountable for every miscarriage when so many happen naturally.
It also seems a stretch to make it illegal if there are serious health risks to either the mother or child that could lead to the death of one or both of them. I don't think someone should have to risk their own life and face a murder charge.
Quote from: Frank on August 31, 2012, 10:50:49 PM
Thank you all for your responses and civilized conversation, it's been great hearing well thought out responses. :)
Andy, if it were illegal and there were consequences, I would suspect "minor" murder charges that end with jail time like two to five years. We all know people can get carried away though, and an innocent woman would probably end up in jail for twenty years or otherwise getting treated ridiculously.
Even minor charges seem scary to me, given the above reasons. It seems like there is no one way to make it a cut and dry argument. Abortion = this jail term.
Though I admit that I am happy the conversation has flowed so well. Its fun to hear responses, even I don't agree. Hearing it from all sides is a great way to broaden understanding. The human condition certainly is interesting.
Quote from: Traivs on September 01, 2012, 12:16:17 AM
I think a lot of people haven't been able to put themselves in someone elses shoes for this kinda stuff. I am pro choice i sat there with a friend way back in high school when her doctor told her she would die if she kept the baby cause her reprouctive system wasnt right. I sat there with her also when she had her abortion. I decided to never have one and thought it shouldn't be a problem since i only like women right? well i was wrong I was raped andI was faced with that choice. I decided to keep him and I am glad I did cause he's awesome. I had to make a lot of sacrafices when that happened I was only 17 and ended up flunking my last year of highschool and had to repeat it after he was born not everyone is ready or willing to make those sacrafices due to someone else forcing themselves on you. I think it should be up to the person not anyone else and they should have any option avaliable .
Honestly, I just wanted to say that I admire that you for being able to make those sacrifices. I imagine that it was not easy by any stretch, but I am glad that you have been able to love your son and find joy in him. Not many are able to do that. It takes a lot of strength that I honestly don't think I have.
Quote from: Ayden on August 30, 2012, 11:36:32 PM
I wasn't trying to offend you. I was just saying that abortion does not lead to disabilities. If I seemed harsh it is because I have heard that same argument come from the mouths of so many right wing old men who take the choice away from women. I have heard pastors tell rape victims that if they got an abortion then when they tried to have kids the devil would give them a deformed child. I wasn't accusing you. I was saying its a story that people use and it does not necessarily have any foundation. I only had what you wrote, and I misinterpreted your meaning. So, I apologize. My father in law works with the disabled and my husband hopes to one day. I also have disabled people in my family, including my little brother, and I have been trying to protect him from people's harshness his whole life. So, its a sensitive topic for me too.
Quite alright. I just get defensive when people judge me before they even get to know me. Happened allll my life. Anyways, I'm not even sure on the exact number. But my mom flew into town tonight so I'll ask her to tell me the full story again in the morning. It's probably like 3, it's been a while since I last heard it and time time to cause exaggerations.
Quote from: Traivs on September 01, 2012, 12:16:17 AM
I think a lot of people haven't been able to put themselves in someone elses shoes for this kinda stuff. I am pro choice i sat there with a friend way back in high school when her doctor told her she would die if she kept the baby cause her reprouctive system wasnt right. I sat there with her also when she had her abortion. I decided to never have one and thought it shouldn't be a problem since i only like women right? well i was wrong I was raped andI was faced with that choice. I decided to keep him and I am glad I did cause he's awesome. I had to make a lot of sacrafices when that happened I was only 17 and ended up flunking my last year of highschool and had to repeat it after he was born not everyone is ready or willing to make those sacrafices due to someone else forcing themselves on you. I think it should be up to the person not anyone else and they should have any option avaliable .
Thanks for having the courage to share your story. What you went through isnt something that everyone would be able to deal with, so its admiring to hear of how you came out the other side, and how you feel about your decision as whats important is that your child is loved.
But atleast your son sounds like he has a great role model in you as his father :)
Quote from: KyleXX on September 01, 2012, 04:04:17 AM
Quite alright. I just get defensive when people judge me before they even get to know me. Happened allll my life. Anyways, I'm not even sure on the exact number. But my mom flew into town tonight so I'll ask her to tell me the full story again in the morning. It's probably like 3, it's been a while since I last heard it and time time to cause exaggerations.
I understand. I get sensitive about it as well. My brother has to deal with a lot of social stigma for having a disability so I am hyper sensitive about defending him. Big brother syndrome and all that. :laugh: I would like to hear the number though, as it is an interesting perspective.
This has been an excellent conversation and as one who came into this universe with XY chromosomes I felt as if this was a great learning moment for me. My hat is off to everyone for such civil posts on such a heated topic, although I can imagine that there were more than a few keyboards smoking. My apologies to Frank as my post #3 came across a bit icky based on my preconceived notions, forgive me Frank I was sort of a jerk! Although I'm not in favor of abortions per se, common sense makes it clear that there are circumstances that warrant it such as rape, incest, and saving the life of the mother. These should always be a legal option without question. I think what many people resent are those who consider it their personal preference time and again rather than take responsibility and use contraceptives. Then there are many who feel that it shouldn't be something that is taxpayer funded, that's what irritates the Republicans who want to shrink government, abortions should be privately funded.
Quote from: Shantel on September 01, 2012, 09:51:54 AM
Then there are many who feel that it shouldn't be something that is taxpayer funded, that's what irritates the Republicans who want to shrink government, abortions should be privately funded.
The problem with having privately funded abortions is that a large group of people who I feel should be able to have abortions - those who fell pregnant for whatever reason and know that they cannot afford to bring up a child - will no longer be able to afford abortions, forcing them to either make a total mess of bringing up a child or give the child up for adoption, and I think we all agree here that the adoption services are already severely over taxed. I'm not saying that poorer people can't do a good job of bring up children, but rather some people just can't financially support another mouth to feed without plunging into poverty and it should be the government's job to help these people who are on the borderline rather than forcing them to give birth to a child who is more than likely to impoverish them. Maybe a more sensible solution if pregnancies could no longer rely soley on taxpayers money would be to have a sliding scale of cost based on the income of the person seeking an abortion and their reasons for falling pregnant and for wishing to have an abortion, but I think it would require a lot of policing, honesty, and some people would just abuse that system to get a cheaper abortion so I don't think it would ever be a brilliant system.
Of course there would always be those people who couldn't afford to pay for an abortion and resorted to illegal - and unsafe - methods or carried a child to term that would grow up unwanted, and I'd never ask for a child to be brought up unwanted, I know a lot of people have had it much worse, but my mother was on the Pill when she managed to conceive me and hadn't planned for any children until they'd gotten more comfortable with their financial and work situation. Their boss refused to give them any leave (they had a joint position in a pub) so my mother ended up working until she physically couldn't and when she couldn't my father had to work every single shift to cover hers as well and if I'd been born half an hour later he wouldn't have been there as he had to go back and work or they would have lost their job and house, so obviously it wasn't a situation they wanted to bring a baby up in. They left there and became self-employed in another pub, and their hours meant that they were rarely around when I was growing up, never doing things with me that 'normal' parents did, like go to school sports days and having my grandparents bring me up 90% of the time. All of that together meant that I felt that I came second to their work, that I didn't know them at all - which was part of the reason I never spoke to them about depression or feeling suicidal - and just generally played a huge part in messing me up. So I believe that there are some situations where children are harmed unintentionally and if I had the choice to have been aborted back then I would of, so when they had a child a few years later, like they had planned, it would have grown up in a better situation and have trusted and known them more.
Ok, I don't think how conception occurred (with//without protection, etc.) should have anything to do with abortion policies. People make mistakes and shouldn't be punished for a moment's thoughtlessness in regards to conception.
It's okay Shantel, as you say, I expected some smokin' (more like burst into fire) keyboards. :) And perhaps I was insensitive, I tried not to be but it happens...
While I'm here, part of the reason I bought this up was because a friend of mine lives in a state that is making it impossible to get abortions and she's one of those ladies who will die if she has kids again. Luckily her tubes are tied but what about everyone else who isn't so lucky? I love my friend, I don't want her to die because she accidentally got pregnant and nobody will save her over a few cells.
I don't like the idea of them outlawing abortion. While it might make it illegal, people are going to go back to back alley abortions which can kill the mom if it happens. I also dislike it since I view the fetus as nothing but a clump of cells that's parasitic in nature; I don't consider it living until approximately 26 weeks, when it can live on its own without medical intervention outside of the womb.
Another issue I have is that some don't want an abortion to happen even if it could save the life of the mother. So, it's better to kill [what they view as] two people instead of one? I don't understand that thinking at all, but I also don't understand the desire to carry something around for that long in the womb anyway.
And yet another thing: What if the person can't financially care for it? People suggest adoption, but could you give up something that you carried inside of you for nine months? Many people say they could, but the majority don't realize the emotional toll that it has on the person and that the person is being constantly bombarded by hormones that are trying to get them to bond with the fetus.
Are the anti-abortionists willing to take care of that child and make sure it has housing? Are they willing to let that kid be put into an over-burdened foster system that provides substandard care? Most never think of what's going to happen to the child after it's born. The child, if unwanted, will potentially be in a household that resents it or put into a system that ships the kid around and where lots of people only foster for that paycheck they'll get.
Quote from: edderkopp on August 30, 2012, 09:13:32 PM
If I was raped and I got pregnant, I would have an abortion in a heartbeat. No thought process, no questions asked. I'd be at the clinic tomorrow.
I'd be the same. For me a fetus is nowhere near as important as the person carrying it, they should always have the choice no matter what the reason for it is.
Around 4 years ago, my ex came to me and told me she had been raped and was afraid that she might be pregnant. This was about a year after we had stopped dating. I took her to the store and got some pregnancy tests, and all 3 were positive. When we sat down to talk about it, I told her if she wanted to carry it to term, I would adopt it. She said she couldn't handle it mentally, and so I took her to the clinic. It was her choice, and I respected it. I held her, and helped her the entire night, and it broke my heart.
About a month later, she showed up at my place of work with the man she had told me raped her. I was so furious. With her, with him, with myself... I still don't know the truth. If she had lied about it. If she was doing her same old thing and sticking herself in dangerous situations (which she did, a lot, for no reason that I could ever understand). I haven't talked to her again, and I don't know if I ever will.
I'm still pro-choice. I believe that it is up to the individual in question, and I think that the choice they make will effect them far more than anyone's opinions about it. If I were ever sexually assaulted again and ended up pregnant, I don't know what my choice would be anymore. I guess it would depend on my mental state.
It should absolutely be the choice of the person in question as to whether or not to remain pregnant. The very idea of forcing an unwilling person to carry out a pregnancy and go through childbirth fills me with rage. There are few circumstances in which I think it should be permissible to remove certain choices regarding a person's own body from that person, and this is definitely not one of them. The life of an already living, breathing person always trumps that of an unfeeling thing feeding off of that person's body.
As for myself, I have no desire to ever be pregnant or reproduce in any way. The thought of pregnancy has never appealed to me and it does, in fact, give me that "wrong/gross" feeling when I try to imagine it. I don't know if this is relevant to my gender or just to my fear and revulsion regarding parasites, but even if I could reproduce in another way, I would not choose to do so. Despite the curiosity I would undoubtedly have over how my child might have turned out, I would not wish to bring more into the world. If I ever decide to become a parent, I will adopt. It will be my choice, not something forced upon me before I am ready either physically or mentally simply because I somehow managed to get pregnant.