Okay, so, being the overly anxious person that I am, I've found myself often very much back and forth in my mind on the whole issue of myself, personally, going MtF. Consciously, the idea has pretty much become an obsession in my mind, I never stop thinking about it... soooo... What are some serious red flags one should watch out for when pondering about whether the transition is right for them? Something that might be blaring, but not obvious that might be a good indicator that it's not a good idea for them?
Personally, I can think of every reason in the world why I would want it, and I rationalize from most any event in the past that stands out, and I can even look at other peoples' stories and say "That's totally me." And I'm sure most of us are like that... but what if we're wrong? Myself, personally, I've wound up being called a hypochondriac so many times in my life its hard to really trust my own instincts on things, so... who knows?
Hi Firecat,
Honestly, I think in the end you just have to ask yourself if this is really what's going to make you happy in life. How will you feel if/when living as a woman is as natural to you as living in your home town? Will you really feel happier relating to people as a woman than as a man, along with the new set of stereotypes you will deal with? Will you feel more fulfilled in your love life, your relationships, your friendships, etc?
In the end nobody can tell you... but I think if you know the depression of living in the wrong gender it is hard for it to feel like a choice.
Good luck :)
I tend to feel like people should try to break transition down into pieces. And decide on the pieces individually and for reasons that are about that specific piece. I.e. going on hormones because you think you're a girl seems a bit odd to me. You should probably go on hormones because the effects of hormones on your body is something you specifically want. Try to pull apart the stereotypes of what you THINK is required and make decisions based on what you actually want for yourself, for your body, and for your life. And if/once you do start your process, check back in with yourself periodically to decide if X thing is still a thing you want.
This is not a thing I did. And it irritates me. Because it would have made transition a much easier decision for me if I hadn't felt like I had to make every single choice all at once and all together.
Also... it's pretty much always good to weigh the costs. Transition can be expensive in a lot of different ways: financially, socially, emotionally, physically. And unless you are currently in danger of blowing the back of your head off, you have time to process what the costs are going to be for you. It's good not just from a standpoint of "should I do this?" but also "what should I expect?" And it's a good excuse to research ->-bleeped-<- like mad and know everything you can about things before you start.
I also think part of your process should be something along the lines of "screw the past." Seriously. Stop thinking about that. Think about who you are now and what you want now and whether this is a thing that will make your life better or not. Whether you played with dolls or not when you were 3 is of so little relevance. I can't even.
Do something else instead. Try to imagine you go ahead with transition and then five years from now what do you think your life is going to be like? Now take off the rose-coloured glasses and try again. Remember that you will not only have most of the problems you currently have, but a whole bunch more as well. Don't assume this is going to fix anything other than "I hate my body," "I hate how people see me," and/or other things directly related to things that transition can fix. Transition is probably not going to magically make you happy. But it may get rid of some problems and make it possible for you to be happy/happier.
Now maybe take a look at anything you are scared of. Real things like "my family might disown me" or "I may never have the body I want" = rational fear and you should have a look at those. Things like "I am a weak person and I can't survive this hard thing" or "I'm totally not straight enough/femme enough/knew young enough/like the right things/blah-dy-blah" = irrational fear. Don't let yourself be scared out of this thing if it IS actually right for you. And depending how miserable you currently are, it's important to think about how much you actually have to lose versus potential gains.
I dunno. Those are some things. They might be helpful I guess? I spent 6 years fighting with myself over whether to transition or not till eventually I hit the "going to blow the back of my head off" wall and that sort of made my decision for me. I strongly recommend against my approach.
To that point, whether you like my suggestions or not. Please make up your own mind. Don't be bullied or intimidated or cajoled or coerced or seduced or anything of the kind by any other trans person. If they try to tell you what to do: they are wrong. If they try to tell you who you are: they are wrong. That's for you. They can give advice and recommendations and suggestions and whatever. But that's it.
Best of luck.
Quote from: Firecat on October 13, 2012, 11:34:28 PM
Okay, so, being the overly anxious person that I am, I've found myself often very much back and forth in my mind on the whole issue of myself, personally, going MtF. Consciously, the idea has pretty much become an obsession in my mind, I never stop thinking about it... soooo... What are some serious red flags one should watch out for when pondering about whether the transition is right for them? Something that might be blaring, but not obvious that might be a good indicator that it's not a good idea for them?
Hi Firecat, everyone's situation is unique, but here are some indications (in my opinion) that ones' preparation for transition isn't complete: if you answer YES to any of these questions-- you've got more work to do.
1. Are you in an abusive or unsafe relationship? If you aren't safe now, get to safety first, then transition.
2. Do you live in a place where it is not safe to transition? If you would be arrested, imprisoned, or executed for transitioning, move or emigrate first.
If you would be evicted from your home for transitioning, move to someplace where you won't be made homeless when you transition (or move when you transition).
If you would be attacked on the street for transitioning, move to a safer neighborhood or town first (or move and go stealth at the same time).
3. Do you have unrealistic expectations of transition? Gender transition can be expected to immediately or eventually relieve gender dysphoria. If you have other problems or challenges besides gender dysphoria, do not expect them to get better just because you transition. Transitioning may bring up issues and challenges that make your other problems worse at least temporarily. Is your problem a problem that people in your target gender expression experience? Then it probably won't be solved by transition. You need a plan for dealing with them, or for living with them. Don't expect transition to make your life easy, give you thousands of friends, make people love you, get you more sex than you are getting now, make you lose weight, heal your leprosy, stop your smoking, get you a better job, or teach you to be a woman or man. Everything takes work, effort, attention, and some luck, and transition doesn't change that.
4. Are you going into transition blind? If you have not had experience in your target gender expression part time, get the experience before considering full time. You wouldn't commit to other complete life changes without testing the waters. Why would you just dive in to this one?
5. Are you still asking yourself IF you should transition? In my opinion, transition is big enough and hard enough that you probably shouldn't do it
while you still are questioning whether you have to do it. Get back to #4 and experience more.
But if you have decided that your sanity or happiness or wholeness or integrity depends on your transitioning, then the rest is just details. Start getting the details as right as you can and go for it.
Quote from: Sarah7 on October 14, 2012, 12:27:26 AM
Remember that you will not only have most of the problems you currently have, but a whole bunch more as well.
Yes. This is 100% true. Your problems DO NOT go away just because you become a gender you are happier with being. You may be a happier person, but you will still be the same person, with the same problems. And because you are now a different gender, the way you have to deal with those problems may also be different--sometimes harder, sometimes easier.
Also--and I know this may get me into trouble, as all are not of my mindset--I personally think that the word "transition," or any word with the "trans" prefix are not a set of words to be used. At least I don't use them when talking about myself. I look at it as I'm simply finding and coming into myself by expressing myself as who I am. And this is a process I termed "inventing."
But honestly, I don't think there are any red flags that should tell you not to do this. Just be yourself, whatever gender that is. Take things slow, but don't be afraid to go out swinging on occasion. Making a leap of faith is required sometimes, except for those times when you can blankly see the sharp rocks at the bottom of the cliff.
A sense of urgency is a BIG red flag. When I was first just exploring the idea of being trans, a CD + TS couple emphasized to me the importance of going sloooow...taking your time...and you'll be less likely to make a mistake (whether it's a fashion mistake or SRS)
Transition is a process that takes several years...and it's not just the time, but it's the effort you make, and the comfort level you achieve in adapting and learning and experiencing to the changes.
Adapting yourself--internally and externally--and also helping your "outside world" (family, work, church, friends, etc) to adapt as well.
Learning about transition--the medical risks, realistic outcomes, other's experiences (both their individual experiences, and their "outside world's" exp), social expectations, clothing style, makeup, etc
Experiencing the changes--Have you worn nail polish in public? Fem earrings? "Girl clothes"? Do you have your name yet, and have you told anyone? These are all actions that must be done at some point...but you can't do them all at once, rather you shouldn't do them all at once.
Take your time, "how much time" is up to you, but don't rush it.
Enjoy the ride!
Basically put.. I feel alone, and confused... I'm at point A, and looking all the way down at point Z and wishing I could just be there. I've spent too much time thinking about this and wanting, even needing it to not go for it, but I feel like I'm walking blindly through a desert and praying I stumble upon an oasis. I really should have brought that guide with me.
Hopefully there are some support groups in my area that my therapist knows about, I could stand to have a few friends who are going through this... as all I've been considering is the "me" aspect of it all... my friends have been encouraging me to do what I want and not worry about what other friends and family think... that it's my life and I need to do what makes me happy.
Quote from: Sarah7 on October 14, 2012, 12:27:26 AM
I tend to feel like people should try to break transition down into pieces. And decide on the pieces individually and for reasons that are about that specific piece. I.e. going on hormones because you think you're a girl seems a bit odd to me. You should probably go on hormones because the effects of hormones on your body is something you specifically want. Try to pull apart the stereotypes of what you THINK is required and make decisions based on what you actually want for yourself, for your body, and for your life. And if/once you do start your process, check back in with yourself periodically to decide if X thing is still a thing you want.
This is not a thing I did. And it irritates me. Because it would have made transition a much easier decision for me if I hadn't felt like I had to make every single choice all at once and all together.
Also... it's pretty much always good to weigh the costs. Transition can be expensive in a lot of different ways: financially, socially, emotionally, physically. And unless you are currently in danger of blowing the back of your head off, you have time to process what the costs are going to be for you. It's good not just from a standpoint of "should I do this?" but also "what should I expect?" And it's a good excuse to research ->-bleeped-<- like mad and know everything you can about things before you start.
I also think part of your process should be something along the lines of "screw the past." Seriously. Stop thinking about that. Think about who you are now and what you want now and whether this is a thing that will make your life better or not. Whether you played with dolls or not when you were 3 is of so little relevance. I can't even.
Do something else instead. Try to imagine you go ahead with transition and then five years from now what do you think your life is going to be like? Now take off the rose-coloured glasses and try again. Remember that you will not only have most of the problems you currently have, but a whole bunch more as well. Don't assume this is going to fix anything other than "I hate my body," "I hate how people see me," and/or other things directly related to things that transition can fix. Transition is probably not going to magically make you happy. But it may get rid of some problems and make it possible for you to be happy/happier.
Now maybe take a look at anything you are scared of. Real things like "my family might disown me" or "I may never have the body I want" = rational fear and you should have a look at those. Things like "I am a weak person and I can't survive this hard thing" or "I'm totally not straight enough/femme enough/knew young enough/like the right things/blah-dy-blah" = irrational fear. Don't let yourself be scared out of this thing if it IS actually right for you. And depending how miserable you currently are, it's important to think about how much you actually have to lose versus potential gains.
I dunno. Those are some things. They might be helpful I guess? I spent 6 years fighting with myself over whether to transition or not till eventually I hit the "going to blow the back of my head off" wall and that sort of made my decision for me. I strongly recommend against my approach.
To that point, whether you like my suggestions or not. Please make up your own mind. Don't be bullied or intimidated or cajoled or coerced or seduced or anything of the kind by any other trans person. If they try to tell you what to do: they are wrong. If they try to tell you who you are: they are wrong. That's for you. They can give advice and recommendations and suggestions and whatever. But that's it.
Best of luck.
Quite an excellent assesment.
I would particularly emphasize "Screw the past" part. I've seen obsessing on it seriously damage a loved ones life. I tend to dwell too much on it myself. I know I am a far far different person than I was 2 years ago, even 1 year ago. I need to stop dwelling on the mistakes I made over the past 3-4 decades, and worse, the victimization I was subjected to up through high school.
By far I think the biggest red flag is thinking transition will
end all your problems thus make your life better. It is just an extreme form of geographical relocation, or running away from your problems. You still have all the old ones, you aren't going to instantly be accepted, or become the next super model in the SI Swimsuitsuit issue, and your life will likely be turned upside down to the point of loosing everything else that gave it meaning; family, friends, career, etc.. Plus in the case of being MtF, becoming a second class citizen. And, as my wife so indelicately puts it, "Who in their right mind would want to become a 50 y/o woman?" Yes, transition can bring the joy into our lives that we long awaited for. But the risks and costs can be quite high in many cases.
I'm trying to look at it objectively and be patient and considerate of my own desires... I do know that in the 6 years since high school, I've been basically a zombie, a coward, I've run away from responsibility and have found little to make myself happy... I'm rather constantly depressed actually. I didn't have a job til I was 20 and it was absolutely necessary, I never got my license til that winter, because walking up here in the winter is just too unrealistic. I didn't move out until my mother basically kicked me out, and living with my friends actually turned out to be a miserable experience that ended a couple years ago with me moving back in with my mother, and having little to no contact with them since. I'm still at that same job even though I've never had a raise or anything, because I just never saw a point to bettering myself....
Then, I started getting these feelings about wanting to express myself, that it was very important to me... I became interested in the furry community, from which I met two MtF's, and a crossdresser... the crossdresser made me realize how interested I was in dressing and acting female, trying to date a girl and telling her I want to crossdress and be girly 24/7 made me start questioning myself, and the MtF's made me so envious with their resolve and courage to make such a change... So eventually I asked a RL friend to go shopping with me for girls' clothing and makeup and a purse... and soon after that I decided to change my hair for the first time in my life, beginning to grow it out. Within a few months of that, I faced my fears and sought help from my first therapist, who works a couple towns over... so I had to face my fear of driving on the highway, and in the city... after a few months of that, I challenged myself to show up to therapy in the middle of the city, fully dressed, complete with a bra and purse. I did it... three times. I was scared ->-bleeped-<-less, but I never felt so proud as I did after. Since then, I've sought help from doctors, gone to various places like the bank or store or whatever, and been able to confidently talk to people to get what I need done... and I even sought a new therapist when I knew my old one wasn't working out.
Looking at point Z... that would be quite a mistake for me right now, but where I am right now, I've certainly made big strides in improving myself, even though I do have psychological issues I need to work through first. My self image has already been better, I've started getting over caring what others think of me (I told my brother about this), and I just hope that the rest of my family will be so understanding, I know my mother won't be, though.
In short, I've already felt like a second class citizen for a long time, because of my own personal issues and not pursuing something I was passionate about, I've been a doormat to just about anyone and anything.
Quote from: JoanneB on October 14, 2012, 12:57:55 PM
And, as my wife so indelicately puts it, "Who in their right mind would want to become a 50 y/o woman?"
A 60 year old woman? Or a 50 year old MTF Transsexual? ;D
Firecat, it sounds like you've been taking the necessary steps to not only determine if this is the right path for you by seeking therapy and venturing out as a woman, but you're pacing yourself and forcing yourself to face your fears and grow beyond the boundaries you'd placed on yourself. Keep moving forward and you'll get to point Z much sooner than you expect.
Sounds to me like you have a LOT of personal progress to be proud of, Firecat. Every step that brings you closer to who you want to be is a cause for celebration. Being happy with who you are is what it is all about. There's no race and no finish line, and no red flags as long as you are true to yourself.
P.S. Are you a Yusuf Islam fan? Teaser and the Firecat was one of my favorite albums.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2Fb%2Fb1%2FTeaser_%2526_the_firecat.jpg%2F220px-Teaser_%2526_the_firecat.jpg&hash=9f7dbac1c9a86c487c2b18bc80a59e2c0ca57a71)
Actually, I'd never heard of it before to be honest, truthfully it was a nickname I made for myself as a furry way back on second life, and I've just kinda used it as a screen tag ever since... sounds right up my cat alley though, I may have to check it out :P
But yes, thank you :) I can honestly say I attribute this huge sense of longing I have to already having made me at least even a marginally better, more confident person... and until such a time where it no longer has that effect for me, I need to keep working toward it
Quote from: SageFox on October 14, 2012, 01:36:02 PM
A 60 year old woman? Or a 50 year old MTF Transsexual? ;D
Firecat, it sounds like you've been taking the necessary steps to not only determine if this is the right path for you by seeking therapy and venturing out as a woman, but you're pacing yourself and forcing yourself to face your fears and grow beyond the boundaries you'd placed on yourself. Keep moving forward and you'll get to point Z much sooner than you expect.
Indeed! I'll truthfully say I was really shy to be seen by others in those ventures, and waited and chose the paths less traveled by people on those days... what can I say? I was self conscious... but even still, even if only maybe 5 or 10 people got a brief glimpse at me, I still did it. Though my therapist said I still looked like a boy in girl's clothing... oh well, lol, can't expect to put on a bra and suddenly be princess incognito
Not to double post or anything... I get random spells like tonight, I'm not sure why... more often than not, I feel really happy and even excited about my dream and desire to change myself for the better, even if the path I've chosen may seem extreme, it just simply motivates me. But times like right now, I succumb to serious depression, and suddenly I feel just awful about everything, and suddenly my dream becomes the unthinkable... its like, when I'm happy, I feel like I really should be a female, but when I'm depressed and miserable, I feel like just a male. Its like suddenly despair sets in, and I don't know if I feel just overwhelmed by it all, or I just feel completely incapable and lethargic or what... not sure which side to listen to, possibly both.
Its different from the times i just get down on myself because of feeling daunted by just how much work is ahead of me, as I know that I'm not going into this deal with only blind happiness, there are a full spectrum of emotions involved. I suppose this could be my inner demons manifesting themselves. The ones that will stop at nothing to keep me from succeeding at anything.
Anyone else here ever get like this?
Quote from: Firecat on October 16, 2012, 04:09:31 AM
But times like right now, I succumb to serious depression, and suddenly I feel just awful about everything, and suddenly my dream becomes the unthinkable... its like, when I'm happy, I feel like I really should be a female, but when I'm depressed and miserable, I feel like just a male. Its like suddenly despair sets in, and I don't know if I feel just overwhelmed by it all, or I just feel completely incapable and lethargic or what... not sure which side to listen to, possibly both.
....
Anyone else here ever get like this?
Yes, definitely. Exploring your gender identity, experimenting with your gender expression, or planning and embarking on your journey, are very emotional experiences and can bring up a lot of stuff that has long been buried. When you feel intensely it is a good sign that you aren't numb any more; now you've got more information to work with in figuring out yourself and your life.
If you were working with a cognitive therapist (or training in meditation/mindfulness), you would probably do exercises to identify the thoughts which come BEFORE the emotions/moods/episodes. It is a useful form of self-therapy even if you aren't working with anyone else. What did I say to myself inside my own head right before I felt that way? One thought triggers a whole rapid chain of self-speech that brings on the emotions/head space.
It doesn't immediately change your feelings, but will usually start to make sense of them for you. I think THIS, then I feel THUS. This set of habitual thoughts make me feel this way. This other set of thoughts make be feel this way. What am I telling myself through these feelings? Is there anything about these 'semi-automatic' thoughts that I want to change, or that don't feel valid to my life any more? I own and maintain the tracks and trains in my head. Only I can inspect each car in the entire train of thought, and remove a car from service if it is faulty or hazardous to operate. Only I can reroute lines that no longer serve destinations I need or want.
I wanted to tell you what your feelings mean Firecat, but it would be better for you to hear yourself, so no spoilers from me. There are many insights in store for you, all unique to you (even though you may see me waving as I go by on the Maddie Northern line, conducting a 200 car train to balanced Bliss.)
Here is how I knew. Years ago I went on a vacation to a city where no one knew me, that I was pretty sure wasn't TG hostile and lived as a woman for a week (as best as I could at the time). After that I knew that is what I needed to do. It was a life changing experience for me. It was several years after before I started to live full time but I knew without question I needed to do this.
Honestly until you have lived as a woman, you really have no way to know if it is 100% the right path for you. Being a woman def has it's down side, this is still a male dominated society. It's why I think that RLE etc isn't BS and why I lived full time for several years before I even started HRT. I see people who do HRT for years, have FFS and sometimes even find a way to have SRS before they have ever lived as a woman to see if they are 100% sure it is really what they want. At that point, they just have to accept it as there really isn't any going back. The fantasy of being a woman does not always equal the reality of it.
I suppose I have some insecurities to work through before I can live full time. I've been testing the waters and doing things based on this urge I have, but I haven't really thought about how to prepare myself for the bigger steps like that. I always figured I would get on the HRT and just see how it effected me, and when I felt comfortable enough I would start going out and experiencing more of the female side of things. I don't have many friends, and there are very few people I've trusted enough to tell this little secret to.
I do not feel comfortable going anywhere alone, and I also don't feel confident yet that I could pass myself off as a female... but for the most part, I'm afraid to post my face openly on this forum for the risk of heightening my insecurities
Quote from: Firecat on October 16, 2012, 12:42:26 PM
I suppose I have some insecurities to work through before I can live full time. I've been testing the waters and doing things based on this urge I have, but I haven't really thought about how to prepare myself for the bigger steps like that. I always figured I would get on the HRT and just see how it effected me, and when I felt comfortable enough I would start going out and experiencing more of the female side of things. I don't have many friends, and there are very few people I've trusted enough to tell this little secret to.
I do not feel comfortable going anywhere alone, and I also don't feel confident yet that I could pass myself off as a female... but for the most part, I'm afraid to post my face openly on this forum for the risk of heightening my insecurities
I "tested the waters" twice in my 20's. Both times jumping back out, mainly due to lack of self-confidence, fear of humiliation after just barely leaving an environment where I was a constant target for abuse, AKA high school, and dogged by the "just a guy in a dress feeling". I resigned myself to faking being a guy the best I could.
Fast forward some 30 years. Two years ago, to this month even, I once again started venturing back out into the daytime world as Joanne. Though still plagued with a lot of self esteem issues and little confidence by the end of the day I knew I needed that experience. I knew it helped immensly to galvanize my then current feelings on how my life got to where it was. I knew I needed a LOT more of days like that. Since then I've had a lot more. I still am not sure what direction I need to steer my life. I do know I can find joy and peace in my life. I just am not sure if the ultimate cost makes it worthwhile.
As Stephe said, It is something you need to try first. Even part-time as I have been for the past 2 years. The answers will eventually come. The fears do dissipate, or actually become overwhelmed by the many positive feelings and emotions. That is, if it is meant to be, and not what you want it to be.
I'll go at a pace that my therapist and I decide on, and I'll take it one step at a time, but I'm not going to wait until the day i have more hair on my back than on my head to begin taking hormones. My crown is already just beginning to thin, and I can see new hairs forming all over my body... so if I'm ever going to do this, it needs to be soon. If I can find a way to slow or stop my hair loss in the mean time, I might be a little more comfortable to take my time and wait for hormones... but if not, I'll probably just get on the hormones and test the waters before making any other moves.
Quote from: Firecat on October 16, 2012, 10:08:37 PM
I'll go at a pace that my therapist and I decide on, and I'll take it one step at a time, but I'm not going to wait until the day i have more hair on my back than on my head to begin taking hormones. My crown is already just beginning to thin, and I can see new hairs forming all over my body... so if I'm ever going to do this, it needs to be soon. If I can find a way to slow or stop my hair loss in the mean time, I might be a little more comfortable to take my time and wait for hormones... but if not, I'll probably just get on the hormones and test the waters before making any other moves.
Yea take it at your own pace, really only you will know how fast or slow to go. As for the slowing down the hair loss, pretty sure you can get finasteride or dutastride (i probably butchered the spelling) without going on hormones to slow the hair loss. Those are prescribed to guys for that particular reason or they used to be. So that is one option, but you would probably be better of talking to your GP about those two. They may have other suggestions as well like minoxidil for example.
But it sounds like you are on the right track in determining the best roadmap for yourself :)
Quote from: Beth Andrea on October 14, 2012, 11:09:44 AM
A sense of urgency is a BIG red flag.
Coming from the FTM side of things, I have to say that just about every guy I know IRL got to the point where something had to give, NOW, and that sense of urgency was not a red flag. It was a sign that they had stopped waffling and denying and making excuses--they discovered or accepted who they were--and, suddenly, they needed to take action fast.
I've only met a couple of dozen MTFs IRL, but this seems to be a common trend for them, too.
ETA: Actually, now that I think about it, I've probably met about fifty MTFs, but I haven't discussed this phenomenon with all of them.
Quote from: JenniL on October 16, 2012, 11:35:08 PM
Yea take it at your own pace, really only you will know how fast or slow to go. As for the slowing down the hair loss, pretty sure you can get finasteride or dutastride (i probably butchered the spelling) without going on hormones to slow the hair loss. Those are prescribed to guys for that particular reason or they used to be. So that is one option, but you would probably be better of talking to your GP about those two. They may have other suggestions as well like minoxidil for example.
But it sounds like you are on the right track in determining the best roadmap for yourself :)
I've been trying for a while now to find out whether or not finasteride would be required after the start of HRT and with the eventual SRS... would you happen to know?
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Sorry, I'm terrible
Hahaha somebody had to at some point!
Quote from: JoanneB on October 14, 2012, 12:57:55 PM
"Who in their right mind would want to become a 50 y/o woman?"
Indeed, Gender transition at 50+ is the ultimate mid life crises. ::)
I can see Russia from my house! But unfortunately, China owns it!
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Off-topic, but I couldn't let her have the last word on that. ;D
So, for the second time in a row, I have a therapist who thinks the law is a full year of full time is required before HRT can begin... I know this isn't true, because I have more than a couple of MtF friends who started on hormones after only a few months of therapy, no real prior full-time experience. Its very frustrating to me, because I just know that unless I get to a point where I feel comfortable enough that I will be able to pass, before I can even think about going full time (My last therapist, after I gave my best shot at crossdressing when I showed up for therapy, said I looked obviously male) Needless to say I'm very put off, especially considering I'm starting from square one all over again. Truthfully, I think this new therapist was actually a downgrade. She doubts I even have GID... maybe I don't, who knows, but I do know I can't ever stop thinking about this, or wanting it just the same.
I can understand the idea of having SOME full-time experience, like going on vacation like Stephe said... in fact, I had some idea of where I'd go for that. But to go full time right off the bat, it's ludicrous.
I'm not trying to rush anything, but at the same time, I'm not going to allow for these unrealistic expectations. Would I commit to a year full time for SRS? You're right I would. I'd commit 5 years, a decade.... but somehow I feel a bit of a disconnect from HRT requiring a year, in fact it makes no sense to me--I don't look female, I know I couldn't pass for one as is... and yet they expect me to... what. Out myself to anyone and everyone I know, live under constant ridicule, endangering every relationship I know on a hunch that I need to test the waters? And yes I expect it to be very hard on my relationships, and that's why I know I need to be certain its what I want before I out myself, but there has to be another way to do it.
I know I need to test the waters, but I also know that when I dress as the girl, I get badly depressed by what I see in the mirror. My plan was always this; hold onto my horrible, horrible job with insurance long enough to get therapy and to a point where I can start HRT... then I would move to a location where I could try maybe going part time, then eventually full time. I would know, yes, my body is undergoing drastic changes, and there was always that possibility that I may be wrong... but I can live with it if I am. Being wrong, and potentially growing a pair of breasts would be an acceptable trade to know I tried and gained peace of mind. And if I was able to go live elsewhere for a while during this period, and found that you know... maybe it wasn't for me, then fine! okay! I can come up with an excuse for any of the changes I experienced.
My old therapist sat down and looked at the actual laws of starting HRT... three months therapy, dealing with the outlying psychiatric issues, SOME experience in the chosen gender role... that was mainly it. So... I don't know, I'm feeling dazed and extremely put off at the moment.
Quote from: Firecat on October 18, 2012, 11:16:10 AM
So, for the second time in a row, I have a therapist who thinks the law is a full year of full time is required before HRT can begin... I know this isn't true, because I have more than a couple of MtF friends who started on hormones after only a few months of therapy, no real prior full-time experience. Its very frustrating to me, because I just know that unless I get to a point where I feel comfortable enough that I will be able to pass, before I can even think about going full time (My last therapist, after I gave my best shot at crossdressing when I showed up for therapy, said I looked obviously male) Needless to say I'm very put off, especially considering I'm starting from square one all over again. Truthfully, I think this new therapist was actually a downgrade. She doubts I even have GID... maybe I don't, who knows, but I do know I can't ever stop thinking about this, or wanting it just the same.
I'm not trying to rush anything, but at the same time, I'm not going to allow for these unrealistic expectations. Would I commit to a year full time for SRS? You're right I would. I'd commit 5 years, a decade.... but somehow I feel a bit of a disconnect from HRT requiring a year, in fact it makes no sense to me--I don't look female, I know I couldn't pass for one as is... and yet they expect me to... what. Out myself to anyone and everyone I know, live under constant ridicule, endangering every relationship I know on a hunch that I need to test the waters? And yes I expect it to be very hard on my relationships, and that's why I know I need to be certain its what I want before I out myself.
I know I need to test the waters, but I also know that when I dress as the girl, I get badly depressed by what I see in the mirror. My plan was always this; hold onto my horrible, horrible job with insurance long enough to get therapy and to a point where I can start HRT... then I would move to a location where I could try maybe going part time, then eventually full time. I would know, yes, my body is undergoing drastic changes, and there was always that possibility that I may be wrong... but I can live with it if I am. Being wrong, and potentially growing a pair of breasts would be an acceptable trade to know I tried and gained peace of mind. And if I was able to go live elsewhere for a while during this period, and found that you know... maybe it wasn't for me, then fine! okay! I can come up with an excuse for any of the changes I experienced.
Make a plan as how to get in a comfortable finantial situation before anything else, this is you first priority. Once you secure the money, the rest would be more easy.
So, go to a trade school or college, but do not fell into the trap of being consumed by passing and transitioning to the point of end up homeless.
I've been holding onto a bad, $8 an hour job after 4 years just for the sake of the insurance... and on a daily basis, I am miserable, depressed, and it has killed my social life, and haven't seen a single raise. What I really want is to give it the middle finger, pack my things, and move. Far far away. But instead, I've been putting up with it just for the sake of this dream >.< If I could find another source of insurance so I could pay for my therapy, I'd be so far gone.
But you're right, I need to remain safe and secure, and that's my #1 thing. I need to become independent... and for the time being, that means not risking outing myself to my parents or family or friends, risking rejection and possibly even killing potential safety nets.
Transition definitely doesn't fix everything. You can and do lose something in the process that means a lot to you, like friends and/or family for instance So if you are going in thinking it's all rainbows and unicorns, you are more than likely going to be in for a shock. Rushing in is not a good idea. It takes careful planing and time. All transition is, is swapping one set of problems for another, but ones that you can function and work at solving and not floundering and shutting down as you ignore them. As a male, I was doing well. I had a good job, family, etc. After transition I lost a few friends, I'm discriminated against at work and I have to work twice as hard at my job because I dont get any help from other techs on my shift. Why did I transition? because I couldn't function anymore. I was getting suicidal and I was still angry at the world. I knew who I was but no one wanted me to be that person. No matter what I did, I never seemed to be able to be happy. Until now.
Quote from: Firecat on October 18, 2012, 11:16:10 AM
I can understand the idea of having SOME full-time experience, like going on vacation like Stephe said... in fact, I had some idea of where I'd go for that. But to go full time right off the bat, it's ludicrous.
Actually I lived full time for 3 years before I considered HRT. I think you are putting too much faith that HRT is going to magically make you pass. It usually doesn't. Maybe -along with a bunch of others things- it helps.
Quote from: Firecat on October 18, 2012, 11:16:10 AM
Out myself to anyone and everyone I know, live under constant ridicule, endangering every relationship I know on a hunch that I need to test the waters?
The reality for me was none of the above happened. I suppose it does depend on where you live but I wouldn't call where I live as "TG friendly" given all the rednecks that live where I do. I see this same "I will get killed if I can't be stealth" comments from people who have never been there. It's a reasonable thing to expect but the reality is, people really don't care that much about what other people do. I lost one friend from this and gained at least a dozen in their place. My family was fine and I think they suspected this anyway.
I know you don't have to live full time for a year to get on HRT but I honestly am not sure you are ready to start transition yet. HRT just isn't this magic pill that solves all the problems with transition and honestly, I see it as a very small part of this that for many people is actually optional. I would say unless you can live right now with boobs, then what are you gonna do when that is a reality?
I only feel like being on the HRT would give me more confidence if nothing else... it would be something tangible, something to show me that I'm not just grasping at straws, something is really happening. The HRT would help me with my excess body hair issue, as it grows in so thick and fast, its disgusting, and its spreading rapidly all over me. I know my facial hair would need to be lasered, and I know there are other methods of controlling hair loss... but I'm at this point where I'm finding I just need to get on with this, that delaying will only make me feel worse and worse.
The only family I even have contact with is my brother and mother, and to a lesser extent my father. I know my brother is okay with the idea, my mother will never be okay with it... and my father... well, I only talk to him on the phone once a month, and see him two days a year now anyways... I have several friends, some online some offline. Every one of them I've told about this (minus the one who said he'd kill me) has been super cool with it. Its just that its my personal preference that while yes I need to get out on the town and experience some things through the eyes of a female, I should be afforded certain measures for comfort within the near to mid future.
If my therapist were to say... okay, show up here from now on fully dressed, go out at least once every other week to a public place, by yourself or with friends... socialize and interact with others... yeah, okay fine. And we can even build up from there... once every other week becomes once a week... then maybe even once one week and twice the next. But the act of going full time female means you've already committed to the deal, and as such should granted the added benefit of the HRT as well as maybe even information on local voice trainers.
Tests are tests, commitments are commitments, and I'm more than happy to do either. I'm more than happy to take the steps necessary to go out on the town crossdressing... go to the local gay bar for drag night or what have you, go with a friend or go alone. And I'm more than happy to say that I won't commit to hormones until I'm ready to go full time, but I'm also not going to go full time until I've been allowed the hormones... if that makes sense.
No they aren't a magical pill that will make my problems go away, but to me its a milestone that I'm working for. My friends tell me that I may look male for the most part, I do have a lot of potential as far as looking and sounding feminine, I've just never really fine tuned my look or voice. Truthfully I want the ability to look my friends and family in the eyes and tell them flat out that I've found something that will make me happy, that I've committed a lot of time, effort, and money into this, and that I am not backing out... and I want to be able to show them something tangible for my efforts, as otherwise a lot of people just think I'm either a hypochondriac or some other nonsense. Especially my mother.
But that's my ramble for the evening, not sure if it made sense or not
Hi Firecat,
Hang in there! If you are having difficulty with clueless therapists or healthcare providers, they may be dealing with some very out of date information. We are rare enough creatures that many therapists go through there career without working with one of us. If you can't find providers that are up to date, you can try to educate. One resource that should help you a great deal with that is the current version of the Standard of Care (SOC) of the World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH). It is the consensus opinion of all the world's experts on transgender care. Here's a link where you or your providers can download a free copy. The current edition is version 7, published in 2011:
http://www.wpath.org/documents/Standards%20of%20Care%20V7%20-%202011%20WPATH.pdf (http://www.wpath.org/documents/Standards%20of%20Care%20V7%20-%202011%20WPATH.pdf)
If a provider won't follow the SOC, fire them and move on. But many providers can be brought up to speed, they just don't know where to go to learn.
WPATH's main page is here: http://www.wpath.org/ (http://www.wpath.org/)
I'm not sure if this helps in anyway but I came to Australia from the UK with the intent of undergoing SRS. It was a vague uncertain plan. I had no real idea of how to go about it, and I had no money. A good starting point.
I met a woman who fancied me and chased me and I told her about the female me and she was comfortable with that. She was happy for me to "cross-dress' and to go out as female but wasn't happy for me to live as full time me.
I promised her I wouldn't.
Now she will never be able to live at home again and I decided it was time to be me. I felt that my promise not to live as me was no longer valid.
I was quite surprised in how quickly I took up the idea and completed living as me full time. It felt totally natural. Scary yes, but natural. Problems arose but I had no bad times dealing with them, in fact I was stunned in how few problems there actually were. Fear was the greatest problem but fear can be overcome. And indeed when I faced my fears they dissipated.
Yes I was ready, I didn't really know that or that I understood it. But as I took the steps it was obvious to me, and then to people around me that I was correct in my thoughts and decisions.
I think for me the validation of my decisions are my personal happiness and my acceptance by colleagues who have never met a TG person before, and knew me for 20+ years and totally accepted my femininity - to a point where the comment, 'see, you were born female, you just hid it' is common from my female colleagues.
How do you know the decision is right for you? I don't think that can be answered. It was right for me and I knew it was.
It was very obvious to me. I didn't even need to think about it. The discussions about RLT and going FT were based on the mechanics rather than the problems. In the end I just went to work in female clothing and that was that. After I changed my name I went to the female toilets. I haven't asked permission from anyone. I changed my gender markers on my employment documents. I didn't ask anyone. I changed my gender markers on my official documents such as licences etc and just told the clerical staff to change it. No one said no.
Is my gender legally changed? I don't think so but the smoke trail is such that few people can find out.
Is changing your sex what you want to do?
No one can answer that but you.
And no matter how you canvas the question no one can answer it but you.
I have now burnt every bridge to my male persona. There is no going back. I'm very happy about that.
If you can say the same, you have an answer.
Cindy
Quote from: Firecat on October 19, 2012, 01:31:20 AM
The HRT would help me with my excess body hair issue, as it grows in so thick and fast, its disgusting, and its spreading rapidly all over me.
I used to hate my body hair, but I got used to spending between 30 and 45 minutes every week shaving the 100%, and twice per week with my arms and hands. It is not fun, but developing a habit helps. A Philips bodygroom will help you in keeping the overall hair level. It is not perfect, but it helps with balancing the image.
Quote from: Firecat on October 19, 2012, 01:31:20 AM
......... I should be afforded certain measures for comfort within the near to mid future.
........ I've just never really fine tuned my look or voice. Truthfully I want the ability to look my friends and family in the eyes and tell them flat out that I've found something that will make me happy, that I've committed a lot of time, effort, and money into this, and that I am not backing out... and I want to be able to show them something tangible for my efforts, as otherwise a lot of people just think I'm either a hypochondriac or some other nonsense. Especially my mother.
In no way is this process comfortable. It WILL scare the crap out of you many times. It still is a leaf of faith everyday for me, believing I am passably a woman. Until this faith is strong, it's scary to walk out the door. Nothing other than experience/self confidence is going to change that.
On the second point, until you spend the time and effort to fine tune at least your look, no one will take this seriously. It's not easy for any of us to develop a convincing look that makes us look presentable. ALL MTF have features they need to downplay to look passable and it takes a while + some honest feedback to discover what works and what doesn't. As much as I would LOVE to wear a strapless sundress, I know I look ridiculous in them. Taking estrogen without investing the time to develop a look isn't going to convince anyone. No, the therapist should not require you to look like a woman when you come to a session. But that you don't want to on your own also says something to me.
I recall meeting this transgirl who was "starting out". I met her at a local park to talk about stuff. She shows up looking completely like a guy and explains she has been on HRT for nine months and proudly shows me she is wearing mascara under her dark sunglasses. After checking of course to make sure no one was looking. I didn't take her as being serious and honestly was shocked someone would have her on HRT at this point.
On the hair issue etc, have you discussed maybe getting on an AA to control this and as a starting point to stop any further damage until you do figure this out? My GP put me on AA without a hormone letter but wouldn't prescribe E until I was. Then again I had already been living full time for years before I did any of that...
Yeah I tried three times now to get put onto an AA, but the doctor all three times told me "You're so young, your hair looks fine, the cause looks genetic, you don't want to be taking stuff like that, the side effects wouldn't be worth it."
Quote from: Stephe on October 19, 2012, 11:33:08 AM
On the second point, until you spend the time and effort to fine tune at least your look, no one will take this seriously. It's not easy for any of us to develop a convincing look that makes us look presentable.
Gotta disagree. I know several MtF's who don't pass and don't twist themselves in knots trying. They get taken very seriously.
Quote from: agfrommd on October 19, 2012, 12:25:38 PM
Gotta disagree. I know several MtF's who don't pass and don't twist themselves in knots trying. They get taken very seriously.
So they are in guy mode 24/7 and people take their transition seriously?
Quote from: Stephe on October 19, 2012, 11:33:08 AM
I recall meeting this transgirl who was "starting out". I met her at a local park to talk about stuff. She shows up looking completely like a guy and explains she has been on HRT for nine months and proudly shows me she is wearing mascara under her dark sunglasses. After checking of course to make sure no one was looking. I didn't take her as being serious and honestly was shocked someone would have her on HRT at this point.
Urgh, I could never do that. I'm not confident enough to go on RLE before HRT and FFS and I can´t move to a safe city, but I keep trying to alter my clothing and presentation within acceptable limits. I can't stand looking like a dude anymore, but altering the wardrobe and learning about the correct clothing styles takes a long time. getting to androgynous / genderfork would help a lot as an intermediate step (For me crossdressing is a direct ticked to depression).
The make up is a lost cause, and no matter what they say, I'm not using mascara and eyeliner. It is the thing I'd like most, but accidents keep happening and I am too nervous to get things close to my eyes (I can't even wear contacts, and I already had too many accidents applying that cr*p. It is not compatible with my current skin and eyelids configuration). Maybe a bit of concealer for my dark circles on the eyes or matte powder to cover the shiny T area, but absolutely not doing a fully painted monkey.
Quote from: Rotten Apple on October 19, 2012, 05:43:20 PM
Urgh, I could never do that. I'm not confident enough to go on RLE before HRT and FFS and I can´t move to a safe city, but I keep trying to alter my clothing and presentation within acceptable limits. I can't stand looking like a dude anymore, but altering the wardrobe and learning about the correct clothing styles takes a long time. getting to androgynous / genderfork would help a lot as an intermediate step (For me crossdressing is a direct ticked to depression).
The make up is a lost cause, and no matter what they say, I'm not using mascara and eyeliner. It is the thing I'd like most, but accidents keep happening and I am too nervous to get things close to my eyes (I can't even wear contacts, and I already had too many accidents applying that cr*p. It is not compatible with my current skin and eyelids configuration). Maybe a bit of concealer for my dark circles on the eyes or matte powder to cover the shiny T area, but absolutely not doing a fully painted monkey.
I'm the same way with crossdressing, it makes me very depressed. And now, I'm feeling more hopeless than ever about it all. All I've ever wanted is to find a therapist who understands my needs, and can help me cope and work through, rather than lumping in as a textbook case (or as with my new therapist who doesn't think I have GID at all...) But regardless what happens, I refuse to go for any facial surgery apart from hair removal, so the hormones will be the one and only thing that will affect it aside from makeup and cleaning up.
Quote from: Firecat on October 19, 2012, 11:59:38 AM
Yeah I tried three times now to get put onto an AA, but the doctor all three times told me "You're so young, your hair looks fine, the cause looks genetic, you don't want to be taking stuff like that, the side effects wouldn't be worth it."
Yes if you don't tell your doctor you are a transsexual woman, and you also don't present with symptoms of either hair loss or benign prostate hypertrophy, an ethical doctor isn't going to prescribe you an anti-androgen. And because hair loss is considered a minor inconvenience for a man, for just hair loss the dose will be the smallest possible in order to minimize side effects. The side effects for some men is permanent unwanted feminization, gynecomastia, or shrinkage and impotence. For a MTF those are wanted effects, but for anyone else those could be devastating.
And if I go into the doctor's looking normal and male, without any way to convince otherwise... including either my way of talking acting or dressing, or a letter from a therapist, how could i possibly tell just any doctor about that? I seem to have run into a bit of a paradox just like I have with my writing--the only way to get published, is to have been published already. I'm kind of just outside the locked fence gate staring at greener pastures.
Personally, my depression has gotten so bad over the last 2-3 years, I can hardly enjoy any of the things I used to enjoy, I often feel too lazy and tired to accomplish much of anything, and don't feel what I have is worth fixing. Its a bad mentality, yes I know. But what I do know is that the idea of becoming the girl I admire inside of myself, its been enough to start motivating me to make changes on the outside and bettering myself. The only flaw there is, when something threatens my ability to achieve the dream it either 1. makes me more determined, or 2. makes me feel even more hopeless and depressed. And right now, I'm sliding down into depression.
I know that the HRT wouldn't solve my problems, but I do think they wouldn't hurt either. I don't believe that the end result is whats going to make me happier, but the journey along the way. Testing the waters, overcoming my fears, and finally being allowed to spread my wings... but this can only ever work if I'm in a position of being comfortable and confident enough to do it. Jumping down to a strange new city by myself and crossdressing out in public may seem like a neat fantasy, but it could also be dangerous and even traumatizing if things go sour... so one needs all the tools and experience they can get.
You are in the right place to listen, read, ask questions, and learn from others experiences. A lot of the listening though that you need to do is listening to your own heart. And the one you may ask the most important questions is you. I hope you will get in to a good therapist with gender counseling experience, or at least an LGBT saavy/friendly therapist who is willing to learn, because it is hard enough to deal with what sounds like gender dysphoria when you are dealing with other challenges like clinical depression at the same time. Have you got either one of those yet?
I've been where you describe yourself, suffering severe depression, feeling you know what you need but thinking of a thousand obstacles that stand in the way. Firecat sweetie, you will be amazed what you can do and accomplish when you give yourself permission to follow your heart. You have to value the little girl inside enough to want to give her a chance. It sounds early to be worrying about full transitions or going full time etc, there is time to explore and get things right, but you can make a commitment to your self that you will follow wherever your truth may lead you.
You don't have to be ready to do what I did and jump into deep water to begin with; most girls take their time and explore gradually.
There are lots of things that you can do to explore your feelings and gain experience. For example, most decent sized cities have one or more crossdressers societies or social groups, that support one another and get together regularly to go out en femme and enjoy camaraderie and safety in numbers. If its not your town, you don't need to fear outing yourself prematurely. Many towns and cities have ciswomen or transwomen who are expert crossdresser coaches who will for a small fee give you a safe and supervised introduction to crossdressing including hair, makeup, shoes, walk, talk, and let you take home your clothing and makeup kit (or rent you storage space). For example, there is a cis woman where I live who adores transgender women and crossdressers and has her own retreat/shop/meeting space, and who has helped thousands of trans women, and crossdressing men, get in touch with their inner woman or femme, safely discretely and respectfully. There are also a number of very safe, very well respected annual conventions for crossdressers and transgender women where you can discretely try out your femme style in a safe environment for newbies. Taking a vacation from your male life might give you the boost you need, and can be done safely without having to do it all on your own.
That's a nice thought, but I'm so nervous to go around asking about things like that. I'm such a hermit, I don't even know my way around the "city" that's literally across the bridge from where I live. There's supposedly a good gay / lesbian / trans community in my area, but as far as knowing anything about it, its beyond me. The "friend" of mine that was supposed to help introduce me to it, and take me to the clubs and teach me to crossdress properly has pretty much ceased all contact with me for whatever reason. But its exactly what I need, somebody who could maybe take me under their wing, help me come across as feminine, and not from what my therapist said, my supposed "straight masculine" (even though friends of mine say I act gender neutral) or even moreso, not overtly gay.
I have no issues with coming across as a bit butch or tom-boyish, as I've grown up as a boy. It's expected. I have many interests that a guy does, and I have a lot of quirks and mannerisms of said male. Some of them I expect to eventually be replaced by female ones, some I expect are just going to be integrated into the new me. Besides that, I do consider myself Bi, especially leaning more towards the female side of the spectrum. There are a few guys I'd be interested in, but by and large, they intimidate and scare the hell out of me. I'm literally ashamed to be male, with what i've had to grow up around.
Quote from: Firecat on October 19, 2012, 10:57:38 PM
And if I go into the doctor's looking normal and male, without any way to convince otherwise... including either my way of talking acting or dressing, or a letter from a therapist, how could i possibly tell just any doctor about that?
By being honest with them and just saying it? Like I said none of starting transition is easy. Actually it is easy, it just doesn't appear to be.
If you went into a doctor and said "I would like to get on spiro. I'm transgendered and what T is doing to my body is very depressing. I am in therapy and they doesn't want me on estrogen yet but I want to at least stop what the T is doing to me until I can get on HRT. " If the doctor had no clue you are trans, there is absolutely no way he would prescribe them and he would be a BAD doctor if he did. Worst case he would think you are weird and say no. He can NOT tell other people what the two of you discuss, so it's not like he can "out you". And if you really are hell bent on getting on HRT, if you got a doctor to prescribe spiro, the therapist would likely change their mind on HRT as well. YOU have to prove you are serious as what you are thinking you want to do is a serious thing to do.
Just FYI, I had been living full time for 3 years. I had already had my name changed, my ID state ID was changed etc. The doctor I talked to when I decided I wanted to try HRT started me on spiro that day, the therapist required 3 months of monthly "treatments" before she would give me a letter for HRT. So don't think they rubber stamp this for anyone.
As I see it, transitioning isn't supposed to make you happy. It's supposed to remove an obstacle from you finding happiness. That's a subtle distinction that gets lost sometimes.
Does your maleness block every attempt at finding happiness? Before I began seeing my therapist almost 7 months ago I had reached the point where I was genuinely asking myself why I wanted to continue living. I had come very close to attempting suicide as a teen and I recognized the same thoughts growing in my head again but this time I realized that I needed professional help. So I sought that out the help I needed, which led to discussions about how I perceived myself, my gender identity and the admission to myself (that I'd tried to deny for so many years) that I do indeed see myself as female internally. In my case it became a decision to save my life rather than lose it and even then I went slow, not beginning HRT until late September.
So how do you know that you are MtF? Only you can know that but in my experience, a therapist can be a great ally in discovering who you are and in helping you decide how to deal with your gender dysphoria. Not everyone needs to fully transition to the opposite gender. For some people, other or partial steps are sufficient. But take the time to consider all of those steps, how those steps help or do not help your gender dysphoria, and how you expect transitioning will let you relate to the rest of the world once you've taken the steps you choose to take.
Quote from: Firecat on October 19, 2012, 10:57:38 PM
And if I go into the doctor's looking normal and male, without any way to convince otherwise... including either my way of talking acting or dressing, or a letter from a therapist, how could i possibly tell just any doctor about that?
I asked around the LGBT community in my Area which doctor works well with patients that are transitioning and I found one. So, you may have to take the reins on this and make contact with them. I am truly sorry your friend ceased contact with you. I went in guy mode to get my first prescription. He didn't question me. He just treated me like a normal person. Told me what to expect over the long term, and what the potential side effects were like DVT, hirsute, cramps, and blah blah blah. When I went I used my male name at the time because I didn't want to have my insurance kick back the claim for the visit. Then later as I became comfortable I asked them to call me Jennifer and they had no problem with it.
Ahh therapy the gatekeepers. This is strictly my opinion on therapy. Please see a therapist first. I didn't get my letter right off the bat, but months later the therapist was like what do you think about going on HRT out of the blue during one session and I was like I really would like to go on HRT. I got my letter and went off to see the above doctor. The therapist is there to guide, but they are also there to make sure there are no under lying problems that needs to be address first can cause you to fail during your transition. If you are clashing with your current therapist, find another one. Until you find one that you can click with. But honestly the decision is yours and we can only offer advice on what worked best for us.
Jennifer
I don't know that I have gender dysphoria or what, but I do know that I have seriously no motivation of living as a male, nor do I find any joy in picturing playing the male in a relationship, nor even in sex. I find myself actually easily turned on by a lot... playing the male isn't one of them. I see female clothing and I feel envious... I love the boots especially. I've made many more friends online posing as the female and being just a lot more open and yes even flirtatious... but being male irl, it made me very depressed as well, as I was "finding happiness based on a lie", that I could never be that person. I feel socially very awkward always, I'm extremely self conscious, and even hate the sound of my own voice when talking. I'm extremely critical about my appearance, my self esteem especially lowering when I haven't shaved in a few days. As far as living day to day as a female... I don't know, it's hard to picture. It's just as hard to picture my being anything but a quivering mess as a male either... the idea of becoming female just motivates me a lot more.
That said, I've made an appointment for thursday with my doctor to address the hairloss issue, as it's quite frankly effecting my ability to function at work or even concentrate on any one task... so really, how should I approach it? Should I bring up the idea of Finasteride and tell him I know how it will effect my hair loss, and that I'm aware of the potential permanent feminizing side effects amongst many others, including cognitive effects? That I'm in therapy for transgender issues, and that while I'm looking to go male to female, the hair loss is impeding my ability to sit back and make rational thought?
I don't know if in your current status you are going to be able to use things such as finasteride or Minoxidil. Remember, you are going to have a major shedding for some time that may increase your anxiety to the point of quickly dropping the treatment. You need to be patient, take photos every month and wait. The first decent results with Fin can appear at 6 months, and you would need at least one year to actually have a real improvement. Also, each persons reacts in a different way to the drug. It may not be the only cause of Hair Loss.
It's been 5 weeks for me, and I have to deal with a daily count of 50-100 fallen hairs. I can see the scalp more clearly, and it takes a lot of courage to continue. Not really for the faint of heart, specially if you start reading horror stories on Hairlosstalk.
If that shedding is going to happen on finasteride, its going to happen on the HRT meds too, isn't it? Gods its hard. The shedding makes me paranoid, and I know its only going to get worse, but at the same time I know if I don't get it treated, I'll be well on the way to horse-shoe pattern bald in the next 2-5 years. My brother went fairly quick. As I might've said, my stylist doesn't believe that the shedding on the crown has been the result of genetics, as she didn't see any of the little hairs evident. Also noting that theres been real bad irritation thanks to what I believe is shampoo allergy, actually its been really fired up in that spot since she washed my hair today... and yeah it was like that too right about the time I noticed the patch of hair thinning / missing. But she says on my hair line it does look genetic, tiny hairs dotted across my hair lone, one side having gone a fair bit farther back than the other. So really, who knows. All I know is; save my hair, save my sanity.
On the brighter side, I came out and told a couple of my co-workers about my dream and desire, and they weren't surprised... the girl I told even was a little excited it seems :P
Be honest with the doc. Tell him exactly what you just said. "That I'm in therapy for transgender issues, and that while I'm looking to go male to female, the hair loss is impeding my ability to sit back and make rational thought?" I would even say I am trying to get a HRT letter but am freaking out over what the T is doing to me in the mean time. I know finasteride/avodart will help that too. I wish I could get started on at least spiro...." and let that dangle.
Another tip on docs. Both of the docs I have been to (the first one retired) have more specialized in infectious disease treatment, i.e. they work with people who have aides. I think most docs in that field are very LBGT friendly and most seem to understand trans issues. If you can't find a "trans doctor" where you live, maybe hunt up one who treats aides patients and go talk to them?
A fair question to ask; should I expect briefly hastened hair loss on any AA / hormone I start taking? Also, would spiro have the same effect on hair loss? All questions I should ask doctors directly, but I figure asking those who have asked doctors is much the same. I'll be seeing a physician on thursday, so I just have to keep sane til then. I just hope all goes well this time, as this time I made it the primary point of my visit, and not just a side note.
Also, will Spiro cause initial shedding?
After having told that girl at work about my desires and feeling about wanting to become female, and it sparking into fast, detailed and fun conversation... and this isn't the first time the topic has done this for me... I feel amazing. On top of the world. As soon as I let loose that can of worms on anyone, any they react in a positive manner (5/5 times, all positive so far), it's wonderful! After a 7 day bout of severe depression, I suddenly feel on top of the world, and there's little doubt in my mind right now of just what I want... no... NEED... to fit in with the world.
lol she wants to take me to get a manicure sometime :) Somebody who'd always been somewhat distant and only mildly friendly suddenly has the potential of becoming a friend.
Quote from: Firecat on October 24, 2012, 01:06:07 AM
On top of the world. As soon as I let loose that can of worms on anyone, any they react in a positive manner (5/5 times, all positive so far), it's wonderful!
Of the hundred + people I know only ONE reacted negatively and he is VERY homophobic so not shocked. His fear was people who see us together would assume I was his date. Take her up on the manicure, get a pedi while you're there too. Things like this pampering princess time is one of the great things about being a woman :))
Regarding shedding of hair:
Minoxidil is notorious for causing shedding before new thicker hairs come in. It, at least while continuing to be applied, causes some hairs that male pattern baldness type hormonal influences caused to go vellus (thin and nearly transparent) to revert back to typical non-mpb thickness. Since it influences the follicle to do this, the old hair is pushed out for the new thick hair. Neither the shedding nor the affect was that dramatic for me, since I had 25 years of change the other way to try to reverse.
Other hair medications (anti-androgens) are supposed to block the effect of hormones that cause hair to go vellus. Since they aren't supposed to affect follicles that have already changed, they shouldn't cause any shedding. If they do, it is because they are enhancing the Minoxidil effect and causing existing vellus follicles to revert to follicles that produce regular thickness hairs. Didn't happen to me, but if it did I would celebrate.
also remember finasteride takes a good six month to a year. at least it did for me. the temples are now filling in lol. i had first vellous hair for the longest time. but try not to expect instantaneous results. have to be realistic :)
Quote from: Firecat on October 24, 2012, 01:06:07 AM
A fair question to ask; should I expect briefly hastened hair loss on any AA / hormone I start taking?
I use Minoxidil and it has resulted in hair growth. Periodically I have shedding (more hair on the hair brush than normal) but I have a reasonably thick head of hair and it is the widows peaks I am trying to fill in. I also take Biotin to ensure that my hair is getting is full dose of vitamins and other dietary goodies.
I do not think Spiro would have the same effect because AIUI it blocks the receptors for T, it does not stop production of T. They do not prescribe it over here (UK) so I am unsure exactly. Over here it tends to be Androcur, Zoloft or Decapeptyl.
Quote from: Firecat on October 24, 2012, 01:06:07 AMAfter having told that girl at work about my desires and feeling about wanting to become female, and it sparking into fast, detailed and fun conversation... and this isn't the first time the topic has done this for me... I feel amazing.
Welcome to the female world. This is typical. I am still amazed at what women I have only just met will tell me about their lives. Of course, they expect
you to be equally forthcoming...
;D
Quote from: Firecat on October 24, 2012, 01:06:07 AMOn top of the world. As soon as I let loose that can of worms on anyone, any they react in a positive manner (5/5 times, all positive so far), it's wonderful!
It
is like a drug, isn't it? So far I may have lost only one person and I am still not sure about him. He has not been hostile openly but he seems to be avoiding me. I do not see him often and I would rather not lose him but if I do..... oh well.. :-\
Transition is not all doom and gloom. For some of us it works really well.
Quote from: bev2 on October 25, 2012, 03:26:26 AM
I use Minoxidil and it has resulted in hair growth. Periodically I have shedding (more hair on the hair brush than normal) but I have a reasonably thick head of hair and it is the widows peaks I am trying to fill in. I also take Biotin to ensure that my hair is getting is full dose of vitamins and other dietary goodies.
Agreed. I was not applying it properly at first (over wet hair, or washing it one after appyling in the morning gym shower). Mostly because I believed it would just be a placebo, but after fixing the biggest errors (I know have a bottle at work to apply it during the morning when I am completely dry), tiny black hairs started to appear on the hairline. With dut, the vellus hairs are now appearing. With a bit of luck, the areas close to the temples will continue filling, and the hairlin should define on the corners. Not a complete repair, but if it lets me keep a Norwood II and grow it longer (when the shedding stops)...
Well, he took a look... didn't see the bald spot my co-worker did, or the thinning that my stylist did, says that it might be just the way my hair sits sometimes. But he did notice a lot of redness around my scalp, so it might be that I have a very sensitive scalp and that I should use organic shampoo, sometimes an anti-dandruff (zinc) shampoo. He says yes around my temples looks thinning, but does not want to put me on finasteride just on a whim because of all the various hormonal effects.
I proceeded to tell him about my transgender issues, and how the hair loss is effecting me to the point of anxiety and depression, and that I wouldn't be adverse to said hormonal effects. He calmly goes and explains that while yes, the finasteride would cause some regrowth, it would only be a temporary thing, and that over time the ends would be the same. He also said that the HRT would give much the same effect, but would actually take a different route, and something like two totally different routes to achieve one specific goal... he doesn't want to put me on the finasteride... yet. As he doesn't detect that bald spot, and said it would be unethical. He also in turn tells me that yeah I had an allergy to the zoloft I'd taken before, or that it made the symptoms worse, and that he's been hesitant to start me on anything for that for anxiety and depression, as there might be something else entirely rather than a chemical imbalance thats causing it... and that my transgender issues might just be the reason. So he set me up with a psychiatrist that I'm going to go see on december 3rd and go from there.
The doctor then pulled me aside and said "I just wanted you to know, I don't care whether you're male, female, or somewhere in between, I'm here to help you, and this is a safe place for you to come and talk."
Each and every time I tell someone about this, I feel that much more relief... I get to feeling so much better about myself and find that I'm in much higher spirits, so even if there was no real solution, at least I can feel a little more confident today!
Sounds like it was a good visit then? That was good your doctor said that at the end, and that you are getting good support!
Quote from: Firecat on October 25, 2012, 01:05:43 PM
The doctor then pulled me aside and said "I just wanted you to know, I don't care whether you're male, female, or somewhere in between, I'm here to help you, and this is a safe place for you to come and talk."
That is awesome. There needs to be more people like that in the world.
Quote from: Firecat on October 25, 2012, 01:05:43 PM
Each and every time I tell someone about this, I feel that much more relief... I get to feeling so much better about myself and find that I'm in much higher spirits, so even if there was no real solution, at least I can feel a little more confident today!
This is why some people say that we are our own worst enemies. Quite often when we tell people about being trans they do not have the problems that we feared they would. I recall telling one customer about myself and he replied that
"It make no difference. We have done business with you for years and we trust you and we will keep doing business with you".
There is nothing shameful about being trans and there is something liberating about being honest. I am so glad it went well for you.
Quote from: Firecat on October 25, 2012, 01:05:43 PM
I proceeded to tell him about my transgender issues,
Congratz! And just wanted to add that was a very brave thing you just did. A LOT of people don't have the guts to just say that to their doctor. At least now you know this doc is on your side :) One less thing to worry about. Dealing with being trans is like that, you chip away at things until... well until there isn't anything left.
Stephe
Quote from: bev2 on October 25, 2012, 01:26:03 PM
There is nothing shameful about being trans and there is something liberating about being honest. I am so glad it went well for you.
Right, I'm not proud of being trans (and why I personally don't see the point in trans pride type things at least for me), but I also am not ashamed of it either.
Quote from: Stephe on October 25, 2012, 07:01:27 PM
Congratz! And just wanted to add that was a very brave thing you just did. A LOT of people don't have the guts to just say that to their doctor. At least now you know this doc is on your side :) One less thing to worry about. Dealing with being trans is like that, you chip away at things until... well until there isn't anything left.
Stephe
Thank you! I guess I've been making a lot of personal progress lately, telling people about it. Its liberating, and what a rush... and to anyone I can tell, and be accepted by with it, I go from awkward recluse to an open book and fun conversationalist. Its amazing really :D
But honestly, when I have my heart and mind set on anything, I become really bold... very head-strong. I may be weary of speaking a lot of times, often biting my tongue, but when it comes down to it... I'm the first person to say what needs to be said, and it often gets me in trouble. But when I have a goal, a passion, or something that otherwise has meaning to me... if I can find the way, I'll have the will to stop at nothing.
Personally, I may be on the more stealthy side of things if I can help it. I'm not ashamed of being trans either, but I don't intend to go announcing it to the world. There will come a point where anyone I meet will (hopefully) know me as just female.
Good work, Firecat! That is so great. The best self-care for depression includes speaking up, just like you did, and also setting aside the powerless feeling and doing what you know you need, just like you did. Way to go!
Quote from: Firecat on October 25, 2012, 10:06:40 PM
Thank you! I guess I've been making a lot of personal progress lately, telling people about it. Its liberating, and what a rush... and to anyone I can tell, and be accepted by with it, I go from awkward recluse to an open book and fun conversationalist. Its amazing really :D
Well done!
I look at it this way - this is what transition is all about, breaking the bonds and setting yourself free. I was never a recluse, I was never depressed (well, not very often) or surly or really bad tempered, but I functioned sort of OK-ish. Now that I am out I am far more 'bubbly' and socially I am far, far busier than I have ever been before.
Quote from: Firecat on October 25, 2012, 10:06:40 PMBut when I have a goal, a passion, or something that otherwise has meaning to me... if I can find the way, I'll have the will to stop at nothing.
Good. You will need that attitude for the occasional bad days. Forward, not back.
Quote from: Firecat on October 25, 2012, 10:06:40 PMPersonally, I may be on the more stealthy side of things if I can help it. I'm not ashamed of being trans either, but I don't intend to go announcing it to the world. There will come a point where anyone I meet will (hopefully) know me as just female.
I certainly have no intention of shouting it to the world or wearing a T-shirt that says
'I am trans... deal with it' ;D I have too much living to get on with and I only have half a life left and I intend to fill it from end to end.
Essentially, my first therapist is on maternity leave until January, and my new therapist is essentially like bleaching out 6 months and $1,600 worth of therapy and starting over... so the best I can do is use the new therapist for other reasons, and try to make all the personal progress I can for when my one comes back. And truly, yesterday might've been monumental in that regard, as suddenly I'll finally be getting to see a psychiatrist come december, something my therapist really kept urging me to do.
Hopefully when she sees all the work I've done on my own, she'll maybe be willing to start helping more with the main issues I want to deal with.
Either way, I have two months left to turn some things around!
Well done Firecat,
As we keep saying taking the first steps are the hard ones. You quickly find out that it is no deal for most people.
One of the cleaners at work caught me the other day and asked how I was, she said all the cleaners had been looking out for me and thought I was great and then said 'If any one ever says anything nasty or doesn't accept you, they are the fools and idiots'
She is yet another normal human being who works in a big place and maybe not at the highest paid job but guess what? She is a normal nice human being, as most people are.
Hugs and Congrats
Go Girl Go
Cindy
Quote from: Firecat on October 25, 2012, 10:06:40 PM
Personally, I may be on the more stealthy side of things if I can help it. I'm not ashamed of being trans either, but I don't intend to go announcing it to the world. There will come a point where anyone I meet will (hopefully) know me as just female.
That is where I am now. Most everyone who meets me now assumes I am female, even after spending hours chatting with them. I don't "announce" I am trans and feel I am on the more stealthy side but given I transitioned in place some, people know, people talk (I'm sure there is some "can you believe she used to be a guy?" going on) but I'm not ashamed of my past. I also don't dwell on it either.
Only two things concern me; safety, and happiness. I can deal with rejection, as if t hey truly cared they would accept me no matter who I choose to be... but there is that fear of being attacked by someone out in public, be it physically or psychologically. I really need to find a support group in the area so I can start learning how to do things properly--I certainly wish the two MtF's I've known online for a few years would talk more than once in a blue moon, though I know questions could be bothersome :P
Best to stay optimistic, as the work I have ahead of me is absolutely daunting.
Quote from: Firecat on October 26, 2012, 09:58:21 AM
Only two things concern me; safety, and happiness. I can deal with rejection, as if t hey truly cared they would accept me no matter who I choose to be... but there is that fear of being attacked by someone out in public, be it physically or psychologically.
I can't speak for where you live but I believe the "dangers" of being trans are way overblown, esp if you live in a larger city. You
HAVE to learn what born female were taught though. Things like stay out of the bad parts of town. There are places you should never go alone. Learn to do things like always have your keys in your hand when walking out to your car. Don't be afraid to ask someone to walk you to you car/home. All these safety things women must do to be safe from predators.
The other thing, and this is where most trans women are attacked, is don't play the stealth dating game. There are a LOT of homophobic guys out there and if they think they are hitting on a born female, you play along and then later they figure out your past, it can get VERY ugly. Most (not all of course..) of the cases I read about violence towards a trans person is along these lines. If you don't do this, your chances of being assaulted go way down, probably 90% or more less likely.
Now you -might- have some jerk off say something to you if you don't pass well but it's not likely, I think in 10 years (when I wasn't passing at all) maybe three times it has happened? If you follow the above as far as being safe and not playing the stealth dating game, it's really not very likely you will be attacked. If you live somewhere that is just totally hostile towards anyone who is "different", then your first goal should be to move. I personally wouldn't want to live somewhere like that even if I wasn't "different".
I suppose the #1 thing I have going for me is my bisexuality, or even inclination towards wanting to date women. Men will, do, and always have scared the hell out of me, past history with mom dating two bad alcoholics is a reasonable explanation. That's not to say I wouldn't give a guy a chance if he was truly interested, but he'd have to work harder to earn my trust. So, most of my dating would probably be done amongst the rainbow community anyways.
Far as being safe out in public... gosh, do I ever follow those rules already. I may not ask somebody to walk me home or to my car, but I never ever go somewhere like those place alone (knowingly), and I especially never go out late at night by myself either. No, likely not for the reasons of being sexually assaulted, but the idea is the same; the world isn't what it used to be.
Quote from: Firecat on October 26, 2012, 11:38:58 AM
I suppose the #1 thing I have going for me is my bisexuality, or even inclination towards wanting to date women. Men will, do, and always have scared the hell out of me, past history with mom dating two bad alcoholics is a reasonable explanation. That's not to say I wouldn't give a guy a chance if he was truly interested, but he'd have to work harder to earn my trust. So, most of my dating would probably be done amongst the rainbow community anyways.
Far as being safe out in public... gosh, do I ever follow those rules already. I may not ask somebody to walk me home or to my car, but I never ever go somewhere like those place alone (knowingly), and I especially never go out late at night by myself either. No, likely not for the reasons of being sexually assaulted, but the idea is the same; the world isn't what it used to be.
I honestly think you will be fine. Unless you live in a very hostile place with a bunch of skin head types around, just use common sense, avoid stealth dating etc you have a VERY slim chance of being physically attacked for being trans.
Don't obsess. Try stuff and see what feels right.
I've started preparations, but haven't actually started yet. I do feel the wisdom of age has finally caught up to me enough to offer advice though.
Don't rush into things. I used to spend hours a day looking for ways around the system, looking at it as having to jump through hoops. Wondering why, if it's considered cosmetic surgery, I can't just elect to do it without having to put myself in danger on the way.
Now that I'm older, I'm glad I never jumped the gun, although at the same time, I wish I had started earlier. I see a need for a RLT now where before I believed that I needed SRS in order to feel safe in the RLT. Without living every aspect of your life as the opposite sex for long enough to have had doubts during it, you are really only guessing that you'd be happier as the opposite sex. That's a lot of heartache and expense to commit to on a hunch. Give yourself time to get things figured out, like voice, gender queues, your own personal style, income, etc.