I am not sure I understand how a few folks have come to have interfaith and religious stances. How does one follow something other than Christianity in addition to being Christian and not then be following another God. How could you come to terms with including more than one religion in your mind and heart?
A year ago at a special service involving all of the Abrahamic faiths of people affected by the 9/11 disaster an Islamic Imam put it very well. "We human beings try to place ownership of God in our hands, when it is God who holds ALL of us in his." The Bishop of my church a Roman Catholic Bishop and the president of the Rabbinical conference in Los Angeles were up there in complete agreement with him. Christianity no more owns God than any of us. There is no conflict with my following of the two spirit beliefs of my ancestors where the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is as much present as Grand Father Sky. My spirit journeys have a good friend walking with me whom I know in my Christian worship by another name, but whose name other Christians know as Jeshua Bar Yusuf is no more his true name of love than my name was ever <him> and even the female name I now present to the public is not the name I hear in answer to all my spiritual callings.
I just feel that there can be a danger in following other religions, there are ones that are obvious cults that most would agree are cults, and then we all know the devil is very crafty and that he can whisper things to us to get us to believe just about anything. I had a ftm person tell me they were buddhist and christian and yet this was the same person who was touching me in an sexual way during church.
I want to be accepting of other people but i don't want to break the commandment that I shall not have any other God's before the God of Abraham.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on November 04, 2012, 11:45:01 PM
I had a ftm person tell me they were buddhist and christian and yet this was the same person who was touching me in an sexual way during church.
That sounds like a very bad experience - but the actions of one person. Please don't let it inform your opinion of what a whole load of other people around the world are doing that isn't that.
i thought buddhism was a way of life, not worship. Inner peace and all. I know there are buddhist christians.
Buddhism is many things, including a way (or ways) of life - some consider it a religion, and it does involve worship, though not in a petitionary way (on the whole) - it depends who you ask :). The one thing it doesn't have is a creator god, so I find myself not sure how people reconcile the two - but some people do. It's a lot easier for me to imagine how people can reconcile different theistic faiths, since they all believe in a god.
I've never had the opportunity to talk with anyone who considers themselves a Buddhist Christian (or Jew or Muslim or whatever), so I don't know how it works for them. But this topic isn't about Buddhists specifically (unless it is!)
No its not on any one religion really, I just wanted to learn from folks who are inter faith, on how they feel inside, like how do you apply that to your life without feeling like God is going to judge you, how did they get to a place of inner peace. I think someone here is also Wiccan and Christian, I would like to hear from them especially cause magic has always intrigued me.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on November 04, 2012, 11:45:01 PM
I had a ftm person tell me they were buddhist and christian and yet this was the same person who was touching me in an sexual way during church.
Neither Christianity nor Buddhism directly control a person's physical actions. We have too many stories of Christians, even ordained priests and ministers at any level who should be at the highest level of understanding sanctity of self which both Christ and Gautama had as the highest points of spiritual worship. The words of a person, whatever their professed beliefs, are belied by their attempt to invade your sanctity of self. Denial of God is not worship of the Devil, it is self worship and deciding that you control other people. Their professed joint faiths both were a lie, they believe in themselves only, and neither faith or discipline controlled their lives.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on November 04, 2012, 11:45:01 PM
I want to be accepting of other people but i don't want to break the commandment that I shall not have any other God's before the God of Abraham.
By all means, do not have any other. Even in Wiccan, the belief is "If it hurt no one, do as you will" goes forward from Christ's great Commandments. God as I have come to know God is the same whether portrayed as having a "beard and hair like the whitest wool" from the book of Revelation, or with long flowing dark hair with eagle feathers in it with no beard and a flint like nose above a smiling mouth. Either will do, both are the same unseen verity only given a face.
I am an agnostic Buddhistic Christo Pagan. I'm a member of a UCC church, I sit zazen with a local Soto Zen Buddhist sangha from time to time, and I practice an eclectic form of Wicca.
How to I come to terms with practicing these 3 paths at once? From my point of view, religion is something invented by people, not handed down by the Divine. I get "fed" in different ways from these different faiths, and I don't really see any conflict.
Except I believe the Holy Bible is indeed inspired by the divine, even though It was written down by men. The 10 commandments and the words of Jesus, I know in my heart to be real and something I have to follow, and yes be born again as well. Deep down humans are capable of Good and Evil and just like set of parents teaching their children, so does God teach us like children.
I don't think people who never knew about Jesus would go to hell though, that seems cruel and I don't think a loving God would do that.
Well, each person believes something at least slightly different from the next one, so we're never able fully to understand someone else's faith. So I guess you just have to accept that others won't believe in the same way you do, or the same things you do. Other people are always outside our own experience, to some extent.
I, too, believe that holy scriptures were written by people who were inspired, or at least believe they were inspired, by G'D (however the word "G'D" is defined). But since they were written by people, I don't consider them to be infallible or static.
For me, the most important parts of the Bible are the Golden Rule and the Great Commandment. I disregard anything else in the Bible that I believe goes against the spirit of those two tenets.
But, that's just me.
Quote from: Constance on November 06, 2012, 10:11:10 AM
I, too, believe that holy scriptures were written by people who were inspired, or at least believe they were inspired, by G'D (however the word "G'D" is defined). But since they were written by people, I don't consider them to be infallible or static.
For me, the most important parts of the Bible are the Golden Rule and the Great Commandment. I disregard anything else in the Bible that I believe goes against the spirit of those two tenets.
But, that's just me.
It is not just you. I pretty much do the same thing.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on November 04, 2012, 01:36:18 PM
I am not sure I understand how a few folks have come to have interfaith and religious stances. How does one follow something other than Christianity in addition to being Christian and not then be following another God. How could you come to terms with including more than one religion in your mind and heart?
It is what they have come to believe. I think it's healthy to have divergent views.
well i have tried to experience other views and have been to various places and churches, but i never felt comfortable there, so i wanted to at one time explore more, but i have a fear i could expose myself to evil that way, not saying other faiths is evil in of itself, but i know God and Satan are real beings and not just made up constructs.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on November 04, 2012, 01:36:18 PM
I am not sure I understand how a few folks have come to have interfaith and religious stances. How does one follow something other than Christianity in addition to being Christian and not then be following another God. How could you come to terms with including more than one religion in your mind and heart?
How many G-d are out there Shawn? Is not the G-d of Abraham the G-d of Jews, Christians and Jews?
well the God of Abraham instructs us not to follow false idols and have other God's before him, that is something I have to follow, so we will just leave it at that.
Finding what is comfortable for yourself is fine. If you feel you can only have 1 faith and not experience others than that is how you are and you should be ok with that :). I find spiritual practices don't interfere with my beliefs and create inner calm. Which on its own might be considered me following other religions, but are just me allowing myself to see the world in a different way and only really serves to help build my own belief system. I am essentially Christian as far as how I believe and how I behave but I have decided on my own that the bible is there as a spiritual guide not as something overly restrictive, the same as any other religion. An all powerful God would realise teachings that apply to western philosophy wouldn't work for eastern and so on. So other religions (minus cults and zealots, yes even christian zealotry) are just different interpretations of God, as seen from the viewpoints of different cultures and people. By experiencing other beliefs and not neccesarily converting to them, I feel I see more of an amazing world that was created for us to explore and be a part of. Just my thoughts as I see things a little differently from everyone else and makes my experiences uniquely mine. Also a last note, I feel I am a spiritual being having a human experience not a human being having a spiritual experience. As a human an eternity of afterlife is something I cannot even fathom, but my spiritual self I'm sure has that covered.
There are many people who make have a mixture of two different religions or dogmas. Many practitioners of Voodoo, also mix in Christianity (mainly Catholic).
Some Pagans incorporate Christianity within their practice.
One must follow ones heart when it comes to their personal beliefs.
I guess then one has to ask, how do you know if something is a cult, or evil and should not be followed?
Your own beliefs should help you determine that and a general rule of thumb is whether people are being hurt or if they are only concerned with hating another group. Also if you have to commit to their beliefs only then probably avoid that too.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on November 09, 2012, 12:30:58 PM
I guess then one has to ask, how do you know if something is a cult, or evil and should not be followed?
"All Scripture [every written word] is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine [what is right], for reproof [what is wrong], for correction [how to make it right], for instruction in righteousness [how to keep it right]:" II Tim. 3:16
Simple answer, if you believe the Bible to be true.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on November 09, 2012, 12:30:58 PM
I guess then one has to ask, how do you know if something is a cult, or evil and should not be followed?
By its fruits, Matthew 7:16.
Discussing other people's beliefs in terms of being "evil" or "cultish" would very likely be a breach of the ToS of this site, as well as being beyond the scope of this topic.
If you wish to discuss interfaith issues, please ensure you do so without defaming other beliefs.
10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.
Excuse me, but i did not defame anyone's beliefs by asking that question, I should have never even asked it really, cause i already knew the answer.
It was not meant to be directed at people that do good things, instead as a Christian myself, was meant to find out from other Christians what to be wary of and stay away from so as to not be mislead.
I have every right to know what to follow and not follow so as to not be taken advantage of by people or the evil one.
First off lets see what a cult is:
Quote from: merriam-webster.
Cult:
1. formal religious veneration : worship
2. a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3. a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4. a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5.
a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : the object of such devotion
c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
Quote from: Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.1. The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
2. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
3. Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
4. The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).
5. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
6. The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
7. The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
8. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
9. The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
10. Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.
11. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
12. The group is preoccupied with making money.
13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
15. The most loyal members (the "true believers") feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
Almost any religion can fail under these definitions.
I would say that it is up to you as to whether or not a faith is a cult and if it is evil.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on November 09, 2012, 01:13:27 PM
Excuse me, but i did not defame anyone's beliefs by asking that question, I should have never even asked it really, cause i already knew the answer.
It was not meant to be directed at people that do good things, instead as a Christian myself, was meant to find out from other Christians what to be wary of and stay away from so as to not be mislead.
I have every right to know what to follow and not follow so as to not be taken advantage of by people or the evil one.
I didn't say anyone had defamed anyone, I was warning people not to, since this would be a breach of the ToS. I'm just alerting you (and anyone who participates in this topic) that describing people whose faiths differ from yours as "evil" or "cultish" would be a breach of the ToS if they were so described solely on the basis of being of a different faith.
Religious beliefs can be (and is) a very sensitive subject. Beliefs are personal and often very strong.
One persons "cult" is another persons belief system.
We saw that in the recent elections. I know of many Conservative Christians who could/would not vote for Romney because of his religious beliefs.
my apologies then padma, thanks for clearing that up.
No worries.
I've never had the opportunity to talk with anyone who considers themselves a Buddhist Christian
A Trappist monk, named Thomas Merton had extensive contact with Buddhist leaders including the Dalai Lama, the Japanese writer D.T. Suzuki, and the Vietnamese monk Thich Nhat Hanh. So much so that when the Dalai Lama comes to the United States he often stays at Merton's old monastery, Abbey of Gethsemani in Kentucky. He wrote extensively (over 70 books) but the two that deal most directly with Zen and Christianity are The Wisdom of the Desert and Zen and the Birds of Appetite.
See also:
Zen Catholicism, Dom Graham (a Benedictine monk), 1964.
Benedict's Dharma, Patrick Henry, Riverhead Books, 2001 - is a reflection of the Rule of St. Benedict by Zen priest Norman Fisher, meditation teacher Joseph Goldstein, professor Judith Simmer-Brown, and Yifa, a nun of the Chinese Buddhist tradition.
As to the Golden Rule, referred to in theological terms as Ethic of Reciprocity, there is nothing inherently Christian about it. Rabbi Hillel, one of the foremost scholars of the Torah once said: "What is hateful to yourself, do not do to your fellow man. That is the whole Torah; the rest is just commentary. Go and study it."
Bahá'í Faith: "Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not." "Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself." Baha'u'llah
Brahmanism: "This is the sum of Dharma [duty]: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you". Mahabharata, 5:1517 "
Buddhism: "Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." Udana-Varga 5:18
Confucianism: "Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you" Analects 15:23
"Tse-kung asked, 'Is there one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for life?' Confucius replied, 'It is the word 'shu' -- reciprocity. Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire.'" Doctrine of the Mean 13.3
"Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence." Mencius VII.A.4
Ancient Egyptian: (the original dates to circa 1800 BCE, and is the oldest version of this rule: "Do for one who may do for you, that you may cause him thus to do."
Hinduism: "This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you. Mahabharata 5:1517
Islam: "None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself." Number 13 of Imam "Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths." 3
Jainism: "Therefore, neither does he [a sage] cause violence to others nor does he make others do so." Acarangasutra 5.101-2.
"A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated. "Sutrakritanga 1.11.33
Judaism: "...thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.", Leviticus 19:18
And it goes on...
You understand wrong, as my mom used to tell me. The devil never tricks or fools people. The devil has power not through deception, but by belief freely given. And forget the horns, as Mick said, He's a man of wealth and taste.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on November 04, 2012, 01:36:18 PM
I am not sure I understand how a few folks have come to have interfaith and religious stances. How does one follow something other than Christianity in addition to being Christian and not then be following another God. How could you come to terms with including more than one religion in your mind and heart?
Because I believe we are all worshiping the same God. I also believe anyone who shows love and compassion for others pleases the God I believe in. It's their actions that matter.
Read what the Dalai Lama says about how we should live and then see is this is really any different from how Christ told us to live. Focusing on details of a specific religion dilutes what God's real wishes for us are, to love other people, be understand and compassionate. I believe God sent Christ to teach us this message and if the same message is being taught by others, it's doesn't make the message "not right".
I also believe too many people are focused on their -own- salvation, which gets in the way of them doing the "love other people" part. The whole thing to me is: if we are following a certain religion for selfish purposes (our own salvation, fear etc) that is missing the whole point being made by Christ.
The crux of the matter goes into who is Jesus? Either the claims He makes are either true or false. These are some of those statements
John 6
35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
John 8
12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
John 10
7 Therefore Jesus said again, "Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
11 "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
John 11
25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
John 14
6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
John 15
5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
These are His words not mine. Jesus leaves no room for any other option,either He is who He says He is or He is not. He never puts it as believing in things that make us feel good. Jesus puts it in such a way that our belief is to be in a person namely Him and it is wholly,totally and completely through Jesus and Him alone. He is the straight and narrow gate.
Going back to the question of whether one can be inter-faith, one has to deny certain points about certain religions in order to be able to combine some or all of them.
For example, if a person says they believe in Yahweh Elohim, but they do not believe what the Bible says about Yahweh Elohim, then they do not really believe in Yahweh Elohim. They have changed who He is. Deut. 6 declares that Yahweh Elohim is one Yahweh and that we are to love Yahweh Elohim with all our heart, soul, and might. To worship any other god is to deny the LORD God His full place in our heart, soul, and might. We are commanded to have no gods "before" Yahweh - the word "before" does not mean "more important than" - it means "in front of" or "brought in the face of". No other god is to be brought into the presence of Yahweh Elohim.
To declare that the God of the Bible is the same as the gods of other religions is to deny His own statement in Ex. 3:6 that He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. When the command is given in Ex. 20:7 to not use God's name in vain, according to Strong's, the word vain can be used as empty, useless - or desolating, false: part of the application is that Yahweh Elohim's name is not to be falsified. You can't change His name or combine His name with that of another god; to do so is to falsify or desolate His name.
In keeping with the requirements of this board, I'm not directing my comment at any specific person or religion; each individual has their own free decisions to make. I'm simply trying to help Shawn answer her questions from a religious text that she and I both believe to be true and dependable.
As a conservative Christian and a Bible believer (as I myself interpret the Bible), I personally don't see how someone can be "inter-faith". I know I could not and still call myself a Bible believing Christian.
I don't speak for everyone calling themself Christian. I guess its a matter of "faith" and up to each person individually.
Quote from: SarahM777 on November 14, 2012, 04:25:42 AM
The crux of the matter goes into who is Jesus? Either the claims He makes are either true or false.
Yes this is very much what matters. If you see Christ as a -being- and this -being- is what is critical to worship than yes, only one religion works.
I see Christ as Gods love brought to our world and if you read the below quoted passages in that context, then other religions work too in their own way. Most follow this same message. For me what is important is to accept, worship and spread -Gods love- which I believe is his message, not to worship "Him". "Gods love is the bread of life", "Gods love is the light of the World" etc. I believe THAT is the message he was bringing, given he IS Gods love living here in a human form. I'm not going to worship the shell he came in.
I know some people see all this in black and white, "true or false" but for many people it's not. I do not read the bible literally and I do think the message in it is for us to interpret ourselves. If we are going to quote scripture literally and proclaim "It's true or false" then most of us -are- an abomination just like the Westboro Baptist church says we are!
Quote from: Incarnadine on November 14, 2012, 08:45:28 AM
To declare that the God of the Bible is the same as the gods of other religions is to deny His own statement in Ex. 3:6 that He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. When the command is given in Ex. 20:7 to not use God's name in vain, according to Strong's, the word vain can be used as empty, useless - or desolating, false: part of the application is that Yahweh Elohim's name is not to be falsified. You can't change His name or combine His name with that of another god; to do so is to falsify or desolate His name.
So you believe you are worshiping the "right God" being kind and loving others. But these other people who are being kind and lovng others are worshiping -some other God- and so their good deeds don't count with your God? I guess I have a real problem with the whole "chosen people" thing and at least the God I believe in, the one teaching us to love each other equally would not pick a "chosen people" over some other people. That doesn't seem real loving of these other people does it? It feeds into the whole "God is on our side of this war" mentality.
I am not sure I understand how a few folks have come to have interfaith and religious stances.
I think you have to read from a very different bible to be "inter faith".
Going back to the question of whether one can be inter-faith, one has to deny certain points about certain religions in order to be able to combine some or all of them.
I personally don't see how someone can be "inter-faith".
To these comments, I offer the following reply.
Quote
The one who says it is not possible should not interrupted the one doing it.
-- Chinese proverb
Quote from: Stephe on November 14, 2012, 09:35:58 AM
Yes this is very much what matters. If you see Christ as a -being- and this -being- is what is critical to worship than yes, only one religion works.
I see Christ as Gods love brought to our world and if you read the below quoted passages in that context, then other religions work too in their own way. Most follow this same message. For me what is important is to accept, worship and spread -Gods love- which I believe is his message, not to worship "Him". "Gods love is the bread of life", "Gods love is the light of the World" etc. I believe THAT is the message he was bringing, given he IS Gods love living here in a human form. I'm not going to worship the shell he came in.
But He did not say God's love is,Jesus said
I AM. A whole world of difference. He even then goes farther
John 11 24-26
24 Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The
one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and
whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
John 12:45-46
45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that
no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.
John 14: 1-3
"Do not let your hearts be troubled.
You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father's house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
Here in these passages Jesus says to believe in Him. He
John 12:44-45
44 Then Jesus cried out, "Whoever believes in me
does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.
He equates believing in Him as the same as as believing the Father. Again not my words but His.
Quote from: Stephe on November 14, 2012, 09:41:31 AM
So you believe you are worshiping the "right God" being kind and loving others. But these other people who are being kind and lovng others are worshiping -some other God- and so their good deeds don't count with your God? I guess I have a real problem with the whole "chosen people" thing and at least the God I believe in, the one teaching us to love each other equally would not pick a "chosen people" over some other people. That doesn't seem real loving of these other people does it? It feeds into the whole "God is on our side of this war" mentality.
Again, you're welcome to believe what you want to, but just because an individual has "a real problem" with God choosing people who worship Him the way He wants them to doesn't negate the fact of that choice. "God is a Spirit; and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." The God of the Bible evidently requires more than just love and kindness.
It would seem that you and I have different definitions of love - again, we're all free to believe what we want to believe. If love is defined by letting people do and believe whatever they want to, then the god that is worshipped by that type of love is not the Yahweh of the Bible. If love is defined by providing a way for a rebellious individual to be restored to His God through the blood of His Son, then that God is the Yahweh of the Bible, as proved by verses such as John 3:16. "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Choosing to save one who accepts Jesus as the Messiah, the Christ, the One True God, the Savior of the world doesn't mean that Yahweh does not love those who reject Jesus; it means that the one who rejects Jesus "is condemned already, because He hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
Anyone can call their god by whatever name(s) they want to call him/her/it/them. It's good for us in this fluidity-focused generation to keep some definites and poles established, and to keep clear definitions of these deities we claim to worship.
The one who says it is not possible should not interrupted the one doing it.
-- Chinese proverb
Buttercup: We'll never survive.
Westley: Nonsense. You're only saying that because no one ever has.
-- Princess Bride
Shades, Pamda and the other seekers...
Arthur C. Clark wrote a fantastic story (pretty much on everyone's short list as to one of the best SciFi short stories of all time) called "The Nine Billion Names of God" in 1953. I was (had it there and deleted it) going to quote the last line of the story, as it's one of my absolute favorite sentences in all literature (but no big deal, I don't read much), but since it's a spoiler, and since I'm reasonably sure you'll at least check it out, I won't. So, without having ruined it, you should go out and read it. Awe hell, it's the computer age, you can stay home and read it. Here:
http://downlode.org/Etext/nine_billion_names_of_god.html (http://downlode.org/Etext/nine_billion_names_of_god.html)
Don't almost all rivers lead to the sea? Most of them, the vast majority of them that we know about do. Yes, there a few that don't. That end up in very bad places. Dead places, like the Dead Sea or the wasteland, like driving through Utah. BUT. MOST RIVERS lead to the sea. So too with religious thought.
The end product of the vast preponderance of 95% of the world's collection of religious thought ends up in about the same damn place so far as we all are really concerned. IF YOU WANT TO BE GOOD, THEN DON"T BE BAD TO OTHER PEOPLE. That's it. That's the entire summation of the message from spiritual works ranging from the Actual Words of God to Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, it's: be excellent to each other. & in being excellent to each other you bring about an excellent world to be in.
That's god's great gift - the peace, happiness, contentment, serenity, nirvana, bliss, whatever you want to call it - is based on being in a state that's totally controlled by our own behavior. The more excellent we all are to each other, the more excellent it is to Be there, the more everyone acts like dicks, the more you're living in Dicktown all the time. It's all just a matter of how we treat each other.
It's possible to do this in just about every damn area of life, home, work, free time, whatever... It's possible to build your life entirely that way. There are very happy homes(with a multitude of ways to structure and define them), joyous workplaces (and it has nothing to do with the job itself), and many generally excellent places to be. The reason is always the same, it's all about how they treat each other.
In the end, religions - almost all of them - say very little about your relationship with god, but lots about how your supposed to work and live with other people, but the lots that they say is always the same thing.
I mean really, what does it matter to God - the creator, lord & master of the universe what your behavior to him/her/them is? How could it possibly affect him, (except in the very odd context of Judeo/Christianity where somehow we hurt his feelings because of this talking snake - and I LOVE the talking snake - and Eve, and some fruit?)? To me, that's pretty much the ultimate hubris of the human race to think our behavior pleases or offends God the creator, lord & master of the universe. Really.
Does it really matter to G*d (the Jewish people think that God is so vast it's not even a matter of which name we call him/her/them by because puny humans could not even imagine the name of something so magnificent. Always thought that was pretty damn poetic of them) what name you call him by? The point of the Clark story, and the Buddhast teaching it's predicated on, is that anything that is everything - which is God, in all things and of all things - is all the names. Billions of them. And given that there is a big dogpile of Names O God, and there is no need to be throwing down every damn chance people get about who got god labeled right. What's it to G*D? Nothing.
Besides, it's not that G*d wanted it, oh no. Hey, I told you not to eat that junk, didn't I!? BUT NO... You had to eat it (because of this talking snake - and I LOVE the talking snake - and Eve) So what did we get for this? Did she eat from the other tree, the really bitchin' one (the tree of everlasting life)? No. She ate the knowledge of good and evil - and along with that the ability to choose between them knowing all the time what's right and wrong.
So we all know that the Golden Rule, this one overarching principal of all religions is true, that it works, that's it fair to everyone equally, and when we choose to apply it we're right, and hence life is right - the Buddhists call it 'right living' - and when we choose not to, when we choose evil/choose to do wrong, we create our own evil, and hence, our own hell.
And rather than condemn anything interfaith because it might lead people astray from the one true G*d, we should all be trying to create a hyperfaith, one that sees the totality of most of this stuff (The Satanic Bible and Book of Revelations not withstanding) as one whole, one truth, one way, one love. (that's what Bob Marley was trying to teach). And that love is created by us to each other. To condemn other religious principals and beliefs when they have been believed and applied (with varying levels of success and failures) by so many people, throughout a lot of time is wrong. I've been in and around other cultures based on differing religions then the one I was brought up in - both here and abroad - and they are no better or worse, no more right and wrong - or evil for naming G*d in a different way. Japan is based on Shinto and all in all its a very wonderful place filled with wonderful people, awesome neighbors in real life, nothing is better than living next door to a Japanese Buddhist family. Unless its Mormons. I sure think that some of it is pretty far out there (and yes, I've read the Book of Mormon, first time was tripping balls in Salt Lake City - a bummer in itself - sitting in a real cheap motel and it was the only other thing in the room) but the Mormon's themselves are real nice people. I'll tell you spending the Christmas season in a predominantly Jewish setting is a different kind of holidays - hope you like going out for Chinese food and catching a movie. But it is what it is, and its no better or worse. Doesn't make them any different when it comes to the Golden Rule, which is why, if you ever find yourself in that position, a Jewish Christmas can be just as wonderful as the Christian holiday. And when I was in Saudi Arabia one Christmas Day - and you can bet Christmas is NO BIG DEAL in Saudi Arabia - it was good too. We went out and drove real, real, real, you really can't imagine what it's like to dive there, perfect freeways (among other things what the company I worked for was building) and no such thing as a speed limit, or cops with these real sweet Mercedes, and that was OK too.
It's not that one religion is correct, in the end, they all are.
Kat
/ who thinks that everyone should read and study all the great thought that the human race has created. Everyone should read the Bible, but also the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Egyptian Book of the Dead, Zen stuff, Native American teachings and stories, all the myths, legends and epics and especially don't miss The Tao Te Ching, one of the best ever. They are all of our stories.
The real question is whom or what are you trusting?
Quote from: SarahM777 on November 14, 2012, 02:27:43 PM
The real question is whom or what are you trusting?
either a book(s) or the words mutter in your mind by G-d
Quote from: Incarnadine on November 14, 2012, 11:15:53 AM
Again, you're welcome to believe what you want to, but just because an individual has "a real problem" with God choosing people who worship Him the way He wants them to doesn't negate the fact of that choice. "God is a Spirit; and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." The God of the Bible evidently requires more than just love and kindness.
The Old testament God you mean.
I'd just as soon just tear the old testament out of the Bible. It has so many contradictions and things in it they are the 180 deg opposite of the teachings of Christ, it's more of an example of how not to worship the God I believe in. every time someone starts bashing other people or proclaiming how God wants them to wage war on other people, it's something from the old testament.
My faith is based on: If the old testament was right, why did God need to send Christ here? Why did he bring a new covenant to
all people, not just "the chosen"?
YMMV of course :)
Quote from: SarahM777 on November 14, 2012, 10:54:25 AM
He equates believing in Him as the same as as believing the Father. Again not my words but His.
Because he IS Gods love so they ARE the same thing. It's why he said "The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me."
I think many Christians get too focused on Christ as a -being- and not as Gods love brought here in human form as an example of how to live. Most of this seems to focus around their own "salvation", being saved, their ticket to heaven or whatever you want to call it. The important message is how we should live our lives here and the rest will take care of itself. This same message is shared by multiple religions and is how I can get something from all of them. I know I don't have a "main stream" Christian faith but it works for me and my church and my pastor doesn't seem to have any problem with it.
Quote from: Stephe on November 14, 2012, 05:58:59 PM
Because he IS Gods love so they ARE the same thing. It's why he said "The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me."
I think many Christians get too focused on Christ as a -being- and not as Gods love brought here in human form as an example of how to live. Most of this seems to focus around their own "salvation", being saved, their ticket to heaven or whatever you want to call it. The important message is how we should live our lives here and the rest will take care of itself. This same message is shared by multiple religions and is how I can get something from all of them. I know I don't have a "main stream" Christian faith but it works for me and my church and my pastor doesn't seem to have any problem with it.
I may be mistaken but didn't Jesus also say this
"Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.and this
Jesus called them together and said, "You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 43 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. 45
For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
and this
"I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father's name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."
and this
5 Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'? 6 But I want you to know that the
Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins." So he said to the paralyzed man, "Get up, take your mat and go home." 7 Then the man got up and went home.
Jesus was and is far more than just an example of showing us how to live.
Ransom Biblical definition
"1. Usage by Christ:
The supremely important instance is the utterance of the Lord Jesus Christ as reported by Matthew and Mark (Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45), and in looking at it we shall be able, by way of illustration, to glance at the Old Testament passages. The context refers to the dispute among the disciples concerning position in the Kingdom, with their misconception of the true nature of Christ's Kingdom. Christ makes use of the occasion to set forth the great law of service as determining the place of honor in that Kingdom, and illustrates and enforces it by showing that its greatest exemplification is to be found in His own mission:
"For the Son of man also came not to be ministered unto, but to minister" (Mark 10:45). His ministry, however, was to pass into the great act of sacrifice, of which all other acts of self-sacrifice on the part of His people would be but a faint reflection--"and to give his life (soul) a ransom for many" (same place). He thus gives a very clear intimation of the purpose and meaning of His death; the clearest of all the intimations reported by the synoptists.
The word He uses bears a well-established meaning, and is accurately rendered by our word "ransom," a price paid to secure the freedom of a slave or to set free from liabilities and charges, and generally the deliverance from calamity by paying the forfeit. The familiar verb luo, "to loose," "to set free," is the root, then lutron, that which secures the freedom, the payment or forfeit; thence come the cognate verb lutroo, "to set free upon payment of a ransom," "to redeem"; lutrosis, "the actual setting free," "the redemption," and lutrotes, "the redeemer." The favorite New Testament word for "redemption" is the compound form, apolutrosis."
thanks to biblestudytools
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world,
but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned,It is why Jesus came into the world,to save those that were lost.
I'm not lost. I'm a nomad.
Quote from: SarahM777 on November 14, 2012, 07:34:11 PM
I may be mistaken but didn't Jesus also say this
Given these books were written decades after his death and have been translated, I'm not sure if word for word that is exactly what He said or not. I try to see the forest and not study each tree.
Quote from: SarahM777 on November 14, 2012, 07:34:11 PM
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned,
It is why Jesus came into the world,to save those that were lost.
So he sent him to save "the chosen" that the old testament God clearly favors or? I also notice all your quotes are about ones own salvation, which was my point. I don't think that was Christ main message "Here is how you save your own ass". YMMV of course.
I don't think that was Christ main message "Here is how you save your own ass"
Sure he did, and what did he say? "Love one another as I have loved you." And further, he said it's exactly how you can follow him, and how others will know you're of God. Not by how you call him, not by how you worship him, but.. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. By 'this', this is loving one another. By all men, he meant everyone throughout all humanity will know you're 'of god' simply by how you treat other people. And when you're 'of God' your life is pretty good.
Look, no need to be preachin' to me, really I'm immune. Had 12 years of Franciscan-based education and 4 years of Precious Blood and Jesuit teaching directed at me. My grade school years were filled with little but religion (and reading, Catholics love to read), I spent my first hour to 90 minutes of school ever day by starting with Mass, after which we'd march back for religion class, and my high school years were intensely religious both emotionally and intellectually. Poo-poo tradition all you want, but it has it's own set of well studied and well rehearsed powers, and some of those people had the benefits hundreds of years of practice doing this with tens of thousands, if not millions of people to practice on, and they are very, very good at it. Then I took lots of science ending up spending 5 years at a National Energy Laboratory where you can learn some pretty far out stuff. And it's too late, alas and alack, I've read all of the world's great religious/spiritual writings, most of it multiple times, some of it on a consistent basis through decades of my life now. Really, I'm when I say I'm immune from it, I mean it. I'm way past reading the Bible as literature and watching TV preachers for their entertainment value (and I do, and I can go on about them at length, to me they are just one more kind of act in show biz). Or are you really trying to convince yourself?
And I'm glad God winks (Like Sara Palin? That girl could wink!) at cannibalism because that means he's probably going to let me slide on all that sex stuff. I mean I only banged those girls I didn't eat them. Well I did, sort of...oh never mind. But if god's letting off cannibals them I'm in clear. Whew!
Quote from: Stephe on November 14, 2012, 05:46:22 PM
My faith is based on: If the old testament was right, why did God need to send Christ here? Why did he bring a new covenant to all people, not just "the chosen"?
This is the answer
Hebrews 9
9 Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 2 A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand and the table with its consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. 3 Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, 4 which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron's staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5 Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now.
6 When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7
But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning.
9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.The Blood of Christ
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12
He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!15
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.16 In the case of a will,[d] it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18
This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19 When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep."[e] 21 In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26
Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28
so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
And who are those?
Psalm 86
Bring joy to your servant, Lord,
for I put my trust in you.
5
You, Lord, are forgiving and good,
abounding in love to all who call to you.
6 Hear my prayer, Lord;
listen to my cry for mercy.
Psalm 145
The Lord is righteous in all his ways
and faithful in all he does.
18
The Lord is near to all who call on him,
to all who call on him in truth.
19 He fulfills the desires of those who fear him;
he hears their cry and saves them.John 3
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That
whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that
whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 11
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And
whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Acts 2
And it shall come to pass, that
whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
1 John 4
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15
If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
1 John 5
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
It comes down to four main key parts,it's to know Him,love Him,trust Him, and obey Him. It's not rocket science and it is so simple Jesus even says "Let the little children come unto me"
To put it in another way
Petra - Enter In (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL2AVfx7Lns#)[yt=425,350]_Nhy6_gjCpk[/yt]
Hey, if you want to read and study the great works of spirituality go ahead and do it. Apperently it's not OK with some, but Dr. Kat tells you its fine, so you can blame me if anyone asks (tell 'em a college professor and professional stagehand assigned them to you, that ought to confuse them long enough for you to make your get-a-way). The Bible, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Egyptian Book of the Dead, Zen stuff, Native American teachings and stories, all the Greco/Roman & Egyptian myths, legends and epics (be sure to read The Epic of Gilgamesh at this point too) and especially The Tao Te Ching are part of our common heritage, all offer unique insights about our relationship with each other and the world. Most people, even most religious persons, do not find them dangerous, evil, or a path to sin.
Matter of fact, most priest and ministers are going to read them as part of their training, I'd find it hard to believe that the vast majority of mainstream seminaries don't teach a required course or two on Comparative Religions, I was getting that my sophomore year in HS, so I'm sure it come in up the line too. If your minister could handle it, I'm sure you could too.
The all have several things in common, all of which would recommended them:
- the are for the most part the oldest extant writing we have that's not record keeping (that is the oldest writing we have, records). That they have survived just about the longest test-of-time we know of, that generation after generation has read them, well that's a good thing to be in touch with.
- they are all written in a mytho-poetic style and a few of them (Tao, Bible, Koran Bhagavad Gita) are pretty much ultimate examples of poetic writing and near perfect poetry. The Bible and the Koran might as well be volumes in the same work, as they both use the same imagery in the same ways (the are both desert based so that makes sense) and have a very similar structure and style.
- together they comprise one of the 4 corners of learning (along with Literature, Science and History) that pretty much all educated people know (or at least did, and not that long ago).
- people from all over the world, from many different points in our history, and in all sorts of different cultures have found strength, solace, joy, wisdom, meaning (and a lot more stuff) in all of those works, they have a power (through time and across cultures) to them that few other human made things possess.
- They are damn good. Have I said that yet? They read very, very well. Some parts of them just sing. They are packed with meaning (obvious, obscure, and occult) in just about every line, and the story-lines and characters are very compelling and convincing. There are parts of these books I've been reading for 40-50 years now, it's never gets old, it's always fresh.
And - like I said, they all end up saying the same basic thing - because there is a commonality to them they can give you things that strengthen your own beliefs without bringing you over to the Dark Side or anything like that.
Is the purpose of this thread for those of us who are inter-faith to answer how we practice? Or, is the purpose for those who are not inter-faith to explain why we are "wrong"?
Here is the original question by Shawn Sunshine:
I am not sure I understand how a few folks have come to have interfaith and religious stances. How does one follow something other than Christianity in addition to being Christian and not then be following another God. How could you come to terms with including more than one religion in your mind and heart?
______________________________________________________
Quote from: Constance on November 16, 2012, 10:07:56 AM
Is the purpose of this thread for those of us who are inter-faith to answer how we practice? Or, is the purpose for those who are not inter-faith to explain why we are "wrong"?
I think folks on both sides of those questions can't help but share from their hearts what is so dear to them. I'm glad for an open, honest conversation that includes both people telling me I'm wrong and why they think I'm wrong. It forces me to ask myself the tough questions.
My perception of this thread, judging by what Shawn has posted in response to her questions, is that she was looking for answers from people whose beliefs were closer to her own how to understand the possibility or impossibility of combining Christianity with other faiths and not become heretical to the Bible. What has naturally developed are people who feel strongly about what they believe defending their positions. Naturally, this defense of what one believes to be the truth creates a boundary of truth and error.
I think that this discussion is continuing to answer that question, with people coming to the defense of an inter-faith perspective.
Conflict is good! It creates dialogue! Dialogue creates change!
Quote from: Constance on November 16, 2012, 10:07:56 AM
Is the purpose of this thread for those of us who are inter-faith to answer how we practice? Or, is the purpose for those who are not inter-faith to explain why we are "wrong"?
Quote from: Sarah Louise on November 16, 2012, 10:33:28 AM
Here is the original question by Shawn Sunshine:
I am not sure I understand how a few folks have come to have interfaith and religious stances. How does one follow something other than Christianity in addition to being Christian and not then be following another God. How could you come to terms with including more than one religion in your mind and heart?
______________________________________________________
Which goes into if the Bible says one thing but another religion says something else on the same topic how do you reconcile the two? For instance it was recorded that Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but by me.",how do you then take it and try to reconcile it to something that says Jesus is just one way? It does not make sense.
That is a purely personal decision.
To me the Bible wins out, maybe not to you or someone else. It also depends on the Faith you have in the book your reading.
I "choose" to have Faith in the Bible and what it says, I "choose" to take it literally (not as a fable or story). That is my right.
Quote from: Sarah Louise on November 16, 2012, 01:28:01 PM
That is a purely personal decision.
To me the Bible wins out, maybe not to you or someone else. It also depends on the Faith you have in the book your reading.
I "choose" to have Faith in the Bible and what it says, I "choose" to take it literally (not as a fable or story). That is my right.
And I agree with you. I do believe that Jesus is as He said The way,The truth,and The life and it is only through Him that we can go to the Father.
Very well. I'll bow out now.
Well, what I was looking for was some help from people who are already interfaith, I needed details about how you were able to come to terms with the God you know of the bible and being saved and a Christian and then being able to add too what you already know to be truth, and not feel guilty about it. I am sorry but i still feel guilty at the idea of adding something else to what I have now, feeling that if i do I would be worshiping something else and following something else other than the God I have known most of my life. I am not judging anyone and i am not telling you how to believe, a few persons sent me private messages thinking that's what i was saying. I wish someone could just give me some straight answers that make sense.
The way I put it to a friend is this.
God said, have no other Gods before Me.
He also said worship no false idols.
These are mutually exclusive instructions.
False idols are not real Gods. They are representative of statues, items, material possessions. Money is the biggest false idol worshipped today.
In many places, God admits, in his own words, that He is not the only God.
So, if I was to say that meant there was a feminine Goddess, say, Juno/Hera, and chose to follow her either equally, or secondarily to God Himself, am I breaking His Commandment?
hello! I'd like to share a dream a friend of mine shared with me. Firstly, my name is Jo and I love interpreting dreams! Ok here goes...
He was on top of a hill near a barn and down at the bottom of the hill were many tents, each tent representing a religious order. He walked backwards down the hill and asked: "where are the jews?" and then the jews all waved and said hey. Kinda like they were just over there, along with everyone else:christians, muslims, etc.
My interpretation was that his being on top of the hill shows his transcendence of cult or religious dogmatic rule over his mind/soul. I think every religion is based on truth but in time has become currupted by people who simply dont get it being in power.
Some background on me: I was raised catholic went to catholic schools from preschool thru highschool. Studied bible as much as catholics study it (any prodestants get that joke?) and also studied many other religions and ideas.
So growing up catholic i always knew something wasn't right. What i was being told just didn't match up to my experience. I am definately a seeker who follows a multi-disciplinary/multi-faith path. What I like to do is find the commonalities of all religions and ideas and assume those common points are most likely the true things. All of the tangents and specific rules on issues are usually the things crafted by people who were in power at the time, but simply didn't understand what it was all about.
So far as my judgement day i have no fear at all. I've had many near death experiences in my life and to be honest, i can't wait until i really die. Of corse i love living but just like retirement i look forward to death. I've encountered psychopomps before and sometimes i feel like in my life here i act as one to many people. But not like i'm guiding them in the afterlife, more like i'm guiding them in their current life getting them ready for the afterlife transition. hmm, i wonder if there's a word for that as psychopomp is specific to post-death guides.
So ya, i think all religions and philosophies share many things and its those things that are shared that ring true. I once heard on NPR radio that in ancient india when the ppl would speak of god and other crazy stuff they said that god didn't exist in anything anyone said but in the silence that occurred after they were done and everyone was taking it all in. Its like direct experience of god, infinity, and meeting all the neat and crazy dieties from all the world's religions is half the fun. I've seen too many people "believe" the bible yet they can't recite a verse. Or if you read them a verse they would only see the 1st dimension of it and not understand the deeper meaning.
In the end no human crated religion or philosophy will be able to accurately represent life and death. I think musicians have gotten it the closest. Now is where i quote 20 songs, half of them beatles. :P