I just saw someone comment about the chest just being extra fat. Please stop saying this. I have no fat and I repeat no fat on my chest. Does that mean I have a flat chest? No! I acutally wish I had that, because my binder doesn't work. When I had chest fat it did. Yes I bought a smaller one. It still doesn't work. Another thing is I can feel the tissue when I need to do something with my binder every time! It's not nice. It's one of the things that makes me want to kill myself.
Thank you.
Yes of course it's not just extra fat, because there's the milk ducts and lobules inside. I think sometimes breasts can get bigger if you have extra fat on your body, and if you loose body fat then they could get smaller.
http://www.bosomplus.com/breast_gr/female_health/other_info_gr.asp?pageID=breasts_anatomy (http://www.bosomplus.com/breast_gr/female_health/other_info_gr.asp?pageID=breasts_anatomy)
Quote from: Sparrowhawke on December 24, 2012, 10:49:03 PM
I just saw someone comment about the chest just being extra fat. Please stop saying this. I have no fat and I repeat no fat on my chest. Does that mean I have a flat chest? No!
I'm the one who said that. If you want to get technical breasts are compromised of glandular, fibrous and fatty tissue. In the center or core there is the lobulus and glandular tissues and the outside is fat. I never said if you had little fat on your body that you would have no chest. Your chest would be substantially smaller with a low BMI.
What is with the "this make me want to kill myself" crap I see floating around random posts? I know I may get stoned for saying this but some guys need to man up. Everything you're dealing with
can be resolved. You will eventually have surgery. Getting down about two temporary lumps of tissue, fat, whatever is pointless. I understand dysphoria. Obviously I have it myself. I hate having to bind. It's uncomfortable, sweaty, inhibits my breathing, makes me not want to be hugged, etc. Basically it sucks but it is a temporary necessary evil.
All I am saying is
stop thinking this is the end of the world guys. Things are going to get better and things will change. Saying you want to kill yourself over something as trivial as squishing your chest until you have surgery is sad. Whining about things helps nothing. Be proactive and patient. Patience will take you far in life.
Quote from: Sparrowhawke on December 24, 2012, 10:49:03 PM
I just saw someone comment about the chest just being extra fat. Please stop saying this. I have no fat and I repeat no fat on my chest. Does that mean I have a flat chest? No! I acutally wish I had that, because my binder doesn't work. When I had chest fat it did. Yes I bought a smaller one. It still doesn't work. Another thing is I can feel the tissue when I need to do something with my binder every time! It's not nice. It's one of the things that makes me want to kill myself.
Thank you.
I am so sorry for you dude, very understandable how you feel. Do not despair your time for top surgery to remove the offensive tissue will come.
Courage, OO
Peky
Quote from: Simon on December 25, 2012, 12:35:14 PM
What is with the "this make me want to kill myself" crap I see floating around random posts? I know I may get stoned for saying this but some guys need to man up. Everything you're dealing with can be resolved. You will eventually have surgery. Getting down about two temporary lumps of tissue, fat, whatever is pointless. I understand dysphoria. Obviously I have it myself. I hate having to bind. It's uncomfortable, sweaty, inhibits my breathing, makes me not want to be hugged, etc. Basically it sucks but it is a temporary necessary evil.
All I am saying is stop thinking this is the end of the world guys. Things are going to get better and things will change. Saying you want to kill yourself over something as trivial as squishing your chest until you have surgery is sad. Whining about things helps nothing. Be proactive and patient. Patience will take you far in life.
I completely agree with Simon here. I understand that it sucks having to bind and having to look down at your chest every day and see boobs there (yeah, and I know people here don't like saying "boobs" "breasts" etc. but whatever, it's weird to me that I have to almost watch myself on here to avoid using those words all the time beacuse it makes some people feel too uncomfortable), but I find it a little disturbing how often I see posts and comments about people wanting to kill themselves all the time because of dysphoria. Maybe I am lucky and my dysphoria isn't as bad, or maybe I've learned to deal with it better, but I just don't think it's something worth killing yourself over.
I just think that most people on this board are incredibly lucky, since most people here live in countries where it's completely possible to get T, get chest and bottom surgery, etc. We can live as trans and for the most part don't have to worry about getting killed or thrown in jail because of it. Just work hard, save your money, make smart investments, and you'll be able to get surgery one day. ;D
I agree with learnedhand, I know it sucks right now but, it's temporary. You will get through this, hopefully this severe bout of dysphoria will lessen soon. Just try to think positively about ways to get you to your end goal( in this case saving for surgery). You'll make it to that goal, I know you will! I'm sorry you're having such a hard time especially now at the holiday.
What Simon, LearnedHand and Spring said.
It's not fun, but it's also not the end of the world. Nobody here set out to offend, so try to give people the benefit of the doubt. It's healthier for you more than anyone else.
Suicide is not the way out, but I can understand the near constant suicidal feelings. I deal with them a lot as well. Just try to focus on the future and work towards what you can change.
I understand your frustration, but even saying 'Please,' isn't going to get people to stop saying this.
In fact, I'm another of those people that refer to my so called 'breasts' as 'extra fat,' 'lumps,' 'tumors,' and other things that some people might consider offensive.
Frankly, it's silly to get offensive over something like this.
As trans folk, I think that ALL of us have heard or seen something MORE offensive than the way that we refer to the body parts that make us dysphoric.
Anytime that I've seen people on this forum being offended by a term like this, it's just a way for a person to cope with the part of their body that makes them uncomfortable.
I don't see why the member of the trans community can't be more accepting of that.
Frankly, I get offended when people tell me that I have breasts. I don't see them as breasts, and I will be damned if someone tells me that I do have them.
I can't get T in my country and I almost commited suicide because of it. I also can't get surgery there so I have to go to another country to get it.
I'm sorry for what you've gone through.
I do hope that you don't seriously believe that suicide is the best way out - having a mother who attempted it dozens of times while I was a child, I can tell you that it is far from the best choice for anyone.
Have you gone to or considered going to a therapist?
Quote from: GentlemanRDP on December 25, 2012, 08:33:01 PM
In fact, I'm another of those people that refer to my so called 'breasts' as 'extra fat,' 'lumps,' 'tumors,' and other things that some people might consider offensive.
It's Not a Tumor - Dance Remix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irKCgFrAORA#)
Love the video Simon.
I wonder if MFTs refer to their downstairs as "tumors"?
Quote from: Liam Erik on December 25, 2012, 10:31:33 PM
this translates to 'just snap out of it,' which is entirely inappropriate. I'm not casting stones by any means, and you did say 'some guys' but I just felt this had to be said specifically.
I understand where you're coming from Liam but I am from the old school way of thinking. Coddling people gets them nowhere. I'm all for listening when someone has a bad day or is discriminated against. That is worthy of sympathy. What gets me is talks of suicide over things that you have the power to change. It takes awhile. Most of us are waiting for one surgery or another but we will get there. All of us have the potential to make it. I'd rather rally the troops and press someone forward than break out the box of tissues and have a pointless pity party. Chins up guys! Trans people need to start feeling empowered and less like victims.
Quote from: Liam Erik on December 25, 2012, 10:31:33 PM
There's a grey area for this argument. For some people, you're spot-on and what they do need is a swift kick to get them up and at 'em again. But a huge number of trans people are severely depressed (hence our 41% attempted suicide rate), and in that case, good intentions and all, this translates to 'just snap out of it,' which is entirely inappropriate. I'm not casting stones by any means, and you did say 'some guys' but I just felt this had to be said specifically.
While some people do have severe depression, and should be seeing a therapist, I think sometimes people (I am not thinking of anyone specifically here, just people (trans or not) in general) just throw out "makes me want to kill myself" or other such wordings without thinking much about what they're saying. I think anything can become part of a pattern of speech and just flow out without much thought, I have a bad habit of saying "oh, I hate that...." when maybe I should really be saying "oh, I dislike that..." While it is perfectly acceptable to discuss ones feelings, and if someone actually is feeling suicidal they should be able to discuss their feelings on this board (as well as calling a therapist or one of the hotline numbers posted on the board), I think certain words/phrases should be more closely monitored by whomever is saying them. Any mention of suicide on this board should be taken seriously. Maybe I am just paranoid, but I just remember seeing various news stories of people who've been on forums or chat rooms and mentioned suicide, and no one called anyone about the person's suicidal intentions or feelings, and then the person goes and kills themselves later on, and investigators go on-line and see that they posted all over the place "I hate life," "I am going to swallow pills tomorrow" etc.
I think some of the comments I have seen posted in various places on the board and other places on the internet would be better stated "X makes me really hate my body". While some people who have mentioned suicide do actually seem suicidal and extremely depressed, I think unless you
truly feel that way, mention of suicide should be avoided. Mentioning it all over the place in a casual way seems to take away from the gravity of what suicide really is.
(I just wanted to note again that I am not saying the original poster here doesn't feel suicidal, if he does then by all means, discuss your feelings with the board here and a therapist. I am not a mind-reader. I just feel concern about using such strong words/phrases in a casual way)
Quote from: LearnedHand on December 25, 2012, 10:21:17 PM
I wonder if MFTs refer to their downstairs as "tumors"?
Can't say I've ever referred to it as a tumor, but I have wished it would just fall off.
Quote from: Simon on December 25, 2012, 10:13:33 PM
I'm fully aware that they aren't (But I'm sorry, but I'm going to refer to them the way that I want to)
I'm just saying, it's not uncommon for FtMs to use this terminology - I have heard of plenty of others saying it as well.
It's a coping mechanism, it's a way for us to stomach having these obtrusions on our bodies until we can get rid of them.
But that's beside the point, I suppose.
Quote from: GentlemanRDP on December 25, 2012, 11:07:53 PM
I'm fully aware that they aren't (But I'm sorry, but I'm going to refer to them the way that I want to)
I'm just saying, it's not uncommon for FtMs to use this terminology - I have heard of plenty of others saying it as well.
It's a coping mechanism, it's a way for us to stomach having these obtrusions on our bodies until we can get rid of them.
But that's beside the point, I suppose.
Yeah, whine whatever way you will. That is all it boils down to. Call your breasts whatever you want. At the end of the day they're still just boobs.
Quote from: Liam Erik on December 25, 2012, 10:31:33 PM
There's a grey area for this argument. For some people, you're spot-on and what they do need is a swift kick to get them up and at 'em again. But a huge number of trans people are severely depressed (hence our 41% attempted suicide rate), and in that case, good intentions and all, this translates to 'just snap out of it,' which is entirely inappropriate. I'm not casting stones by any means, and you did say 'some guys' but I just felt this had to be said specifically.
Thank you for saying this.
Quote from: Simon on December 25, 2012, 11:14:30 PM
Yeah, whine whatever way you will. That is all it boils down to. Call your breasts whatever you want. At the end of the day they're still just boobs.
Well that's just harsh, dude. People have the right to call their body parts with whatever names they want to. Especially if that makes them feel better. I don't think anyone here needs others telling them "well, in the end you just have boobs".
Quote from: Phoeniks on December 26, 2012, 04:45:55 AM
Well that's just harsh, dude. People have the right to call their body parts with whatever names they want to. Especially if that makes them feel better. I don't think anyone here needs others telling them "well, in the end you just have boobs".
I read it as a bit abrupt at first as well, but I see another side to this. They are just that, and not horrible cancerous tumors that can kill you. So it's mentally devastating at times, but us cancer-free guys should pause for a moment and see the bright side- they're made up of healthy tissue, and that's one less war to wage.
Because that's what all of us really are here. We're warriors, fighting with bodies and family expectations and the world. And we're here to band together and kick some major butt :P
Quote from: Phoeniks on December 26, 2012, 04:45:55 AM
Well that's just harsh, dude. People have the right to call their body parts with whatever names they want to. Especially if that makes them feel better. I don't think anyone here needs others telling them "well, in the end you just have boobs".
I agree, it was harsh and insensitive (yet true) but was thrown out there with a point. Someone can't on one hand say "I'll call them what I want" and on the other hand dictate what someone else calls them. Call them tumors and I'll point out they're really just tits. Simple as that. Incivility breeds incivility.
People have the right to use whatever terminology they wish. Likewise others have the right to disagree with that terminology. I don't agree with the "just snap out of it" attitude at all. It's easy for some to tell others to stop "whining" and to be offended by what they perceive as unnecessary feelings of hopelessness at "trivial" concerns, but at the end of the day, no one here sees through the eyes of another nor have they walked a mile in another's shoes. IMHO suffering is subjective and I personally dislike attitudes that suggest others have no "right to complain" because "they don't have real problems".
I really wish I had chest cancer or cancer 'down there'. Then they had to remove them and if they didn't I would die and everything would be good cause it wasn't suicide.
...
Someone please hit me for that comment :-\. If I die then people in Denmark have one person less to fight for trans rights.
Quote from: Sparrowhawke on December 27, 2012, 07:39:03 PM
I really wish I had chest cancer or cancer 'down there'. Then they had to remove them and if they didn't I would die and everything would be good cause it wasn't suicide.
...
Someone please hit me for that comment :-\. If I die then people in Denmark have one person less to fight for trans rights.
No, you don't wish you had cancer "down anywhere" http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis)
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 27, 2012, 07:46:44 PM
No, you don't wish you had cancer "down anywhere" http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis)
Thank you for hitting me. I know I don't want cancer, but I don't have any options.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 27, 2012, 07:46:44 PM
No, you don't wish you had cancer "down anywhere" http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis)
Quoted for truth. Often I have wished for something to happen that would medically require removal of the offending body parts, but really, all of us who are alive and well should be very thankful for that. We must stay strong in order to fight this battle.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 27, 2012, 07:46:44 PM
No, you don't wish you had cancer "down anywhere" http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis)
Devlyn, they speak about things that they know nothing about. It's easy to say you want to die until the possibility is there and you have to fight to live.
For the record, I have never said people's struggles are trivial or what not. People have a tendency to piss and moan. It is human nature. If it makes someone feel better to do so then so be it but I'm not going to coddle or be sympathetic.
If being trans is the absolutely worst thing that has happened to you in your life you're lucky. Does being trans suck? Yes, it does but it is something you have the power to alter. No, it never goes away but we all have the power to get to a point where we are comfortable with ourselves.
I find it sad that the ftm threads are full of whining. The women in the mtf threads look for answers and solutions. Shouldn't we be doing the same? Guys I don't want to come off as a jerk because anyone who truly knows me can attest that I am not. It is sad to see guys talking about giving up. You don't know where your story will end. You have to keep fighting. It is going to get better.
Quote from: Simon on December 27, 2012, 08:02:18 PM
Devlyn, they speak about things that they know nothing about.
I know what cancer is and I don't want it. Did you even read my last comment?
Quote from: Simon on December 27, 2012, 08:02:18 PMIt's easy to say you want to die until the possibility is there and you have to fight to live.
That is what I'm going through right now. I'm fighting for trans rights in my country, but I'm unsure if I can survive for that long.
Quote from: Simon on December 27, 2012, 08:02:18 PMFor the record, I have never said people's struggles are trivial or what not. People have a tendency to piss and moan. It is human nature. If it makes someone feel better to do so then so be it but I'm not going to coddle or be sympathetic.
Fine by me. I'm sorry my first post came of as whining. It was more of a rant and nothing else.
Quote from: Simon on December 27, 2012, 08:02:18 PMIf being trans is the absolutely worst thing that has happened to you in your life you're lucky. Does being trans suck? Yes, it does but it is something you have the power to alter. No, it never goes away but we all have the power to get to a point where we are comfortable with ourselves.
Excuse me? Have the power to alter? Lucky? What? Did you read any of the post where I said that wasn't an option? Have you? would you kindly read this: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,130440.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,130440.0.html). I lost my education because I nearly committed suicide because of it and now I'm afraid that will happen again if I continue my education. That sure is lucky.
Quote from: Simon on December 27, 2012, 08:02:18 PMI find it sad that the ftm threads are full of whining. The women in the mtf threads look for answers and solutions. Shouldn't we be doing the same? Guys I don't want to come off as a jerk because anyone who truly knows me can attest that I am not.
I think it has something to do with E. E makes most guys feeling going ape->-bleeped-<-. I don't think of you as a jerk. You are a little generalising and hash, but that's it.
Quote from: Simon on December 27, 2012, 08:02:18 PMIt is sad to see guys talking about giving up. You don't know where your story will end. You have to keep fighting.
I'm in conflict with myself. Part of me want to give up and die the other part of me wants to fight and change laws. I think the suicidal part of me might go away if I had less E or something. If someone knows how to make the suicidal me go away (without T as the only way I can get that is if I get it illegally) please tell me. It is really annoying.
Quote from: Simon on December 27, 2012, 08:02:18 PMIt is going to get better.
For me it have actually gotten worse. I do hope it will get better, but if my country continue to ->-bleeped-<- on its people it will only get worse.
Nope, I sure don't know how to make the "suicidal you" go away. I can tell you that I was suicidal at one point in my life and it is a deep hole to dig yourself out of. I will use the old cliche' because it is true "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem". You do have the power to change your life...regardless of the Dutch government. If that was not the case you wouldn't be saving up for top surgery as there would be no point in doing so (so how is there no option for you?). There are plenty of Countries (mine included) that do not fund SRS or HRT for transsexuals. It sucks but it is what it is.
Quote from: Simon on December 27, 2012, 08:54:55 PM
Nope, I sure don't know how to make the "suicidal you" go away. I can tell you that I was suicidal at one point in my life and it is a deep hole to dig yourself out of. I will use the old cliche' because it is true "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem". You do have the power to change your life...regardless of the Dutch government. If that was not the case you wouldn't be saving up for top surgery as there would be no point in doing so (so how is there no option for you?). There are plenty of Countries (mine included) that do not fund SRS or HRT for transsexuals. It sucks but it is what it is.
I'm saving up for top surgery in another country, but in my country
only there is no legal options. I was thinking about getting T illegally, but then I would loose my mom's support and something could go wrong.
I'm just so angry that my country was the first to make a sex change, but now they are one of the worst country in the eu to be trans in.
Quote from: Sparrowhawke on December 27, 2012, 09:06:00 PM
I'm saving up for top surgery in another country, but in my country only there is no legal options. I was thinking about getting T illegally, but then I would loose my mom's support and something could go wrong.
I'm just so angry that my country was the first to make a sex change, but now they are one of the worst country in the eu to be trans in.
I thought in your Country you're being denied because they only give things to trans people who fall into the binary guidelines and that is the requirement? That is more than what we have here.
I'd do whatever I had to if it meant I would get government funded SRS. I've told you before...who you are is none of their business. Who you love/are attracted to is none of their business.
...the government just set up loopholes. You can play their petty game and get what you need. I don't understand why you're so adamant that they will help you by accepting you for you. Screw them...play their little game and get what you need out of them.
Quote from: Simon on December 27, 2012, 09:14:35 PM
I thought in your Country you're being denied because they only give things to trans people who fall into the binary guidelines and that is the requirement? That is more than what we have here.
I'd do whatever I had to if it meant I would get government funded SRS. I've told you before...who you are is none of their business. Who you love/are attracted to is none of their business.
...the government just set up loopholes. You can play their petty game and get what you need. I don't understand why you're so adamant that they will help you by accepting you for you. Screw them...play their little game and get what you need out of them.
They are not going to treat me as long as I'm under 18 so there is no reason for me to go in there before that. Still I'm not sure that will help me. They can say that they will not treat you if you had a dress on when you where 14 or something. It's not that I'm not going to try because I will, but more that I'm unsure if it will work.
Also what country do you live in?
I'm in the USA where there are resources available only if you have money. I'm sure some guys live near clinics that help with therapy/hormones but they're far and few between.
I advise you to wait until you're 18 and then go for it. They'll only know what you tell them. How else would they know if you wore a dress at 14? Loose lips sink ships, lol.
I don't know how long it is 'til you are 18, but hold off on the despair until you have actually been in contact with whatever gender clinic you will have to deal with. You say they will not treat you until 18, but what about the evaluation that comes before any actual treatment? Can you get started on that sooner? After all they probably take their sweet time before they make a decision whether a patient is "worthy" of treatment or not.