Channel 24 News, South Africa (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1547049,00.html)
Cape Town - Cross-dressers and ->-bleeped-<-s have been banned from membership of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance, the organisation announced on Wednesday. The decision, taken by the organisation's national executive, had resulted in the expulsion of two members of the board.
This sort of thing has already happened in River City, with the renaming of the Lambda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_symbol#Lambda) Center to the Sacramento Gay and Lesbian Center (http://www.outsacramento.com/). I guess we ->-bleeped-<-s just don't count any more...
Karen
QuoteThis sort of thing has already happened in River City, with the renaming of the Lambda Center to the Sacramento Gay and Lesbian Center. I guess we ->-bleeped-<-s just don't count any more...
I don't think it is that at all Karen. I think it is a reaction to some people from the "T" community vociferously objecting to being identified with anything Gay or Lesbian, or queer in general. Most of the people that post here identify as str8, not queer. So, queers just figure that you cannot have it both ways. Traditionally, gays and lesbians always provided a safe haven for the "T" population, but lately, you just don't see much support for many queer causes in the "T" population. And why should you, really? Once people transtion, they disappear into the str8 population. They are two seperate groups.
I find it disturbing. We all are part of this struggle for equal rights. Look what's happening to our "agenda"! ;)
Cindi
Sexuality should not be an issue. All of the 'out of the norm' groups should be unified and working towards the same goals. Just because a person is Gay, it doesn't mean that the children they have won't turn out to be Transpeople and vice versa.
We are all the children of Earth.
When I meet someone who is 'G' or 'L', I remind them that we (GLBT(IQ)) have 'common cause'. Those are the words I use -- 'Common Cause'.
I assume I won't pass. The only thing I can do is to try to work to gain acceptance the way I am.
Maybe if I become passable, I might begin to think otherwise.
But lately, a lot of formerly stealth T-women are showing up in forums like this, and at our little TG social group in River City. Maybe if we keep pushing, we can reach a tipping point...
I think that acceptance of TG/TS can be the key to gaining acceptance for all non-standard individuals -- the 'G's and the 'L's and the 'B's and the 'I's and the 'Q's. If general society comes to tolerate (or better) us 'T's, it will be a lot easier for general society to overcome the shudder factor when confronted by a loving, caring, sexually intimate marriage (or 'marriage', if that's how it has to be) between Adam and Steve and their two kids John and Wendy, or Amber and Heather, who raise and nurture William, Phoenix and Thor.
There's some momentum right now, and it scares the bigots spitless. Moreso, when the bigots find out we're ALL born the way we are.
Karen
Well, I hope that you are right. Like I always say, we are all more alike than we are different. ;)
That's really a shame. We have a lot more in common than we think.
Gennee
:(
I look at it this way. I understand what transgenders have to go through. Here in New York City, there was nothing for transgenders at the community center until about five or six years ago. Even now transgenders are not always received with open arms. I am transgender and a ->-bleeped-<-.
One thing I have tried to do is to understand each community and where they are coming from. In the trans community, I understand that crossdressers may have different needs and issues compared to the transsexual or genderqueer, but we suffer the same bigotry. I don't always agree with some things, but everybody is entitled to their opinion. That is something that I WILL defend-a person's right to their own opinion.
I can't speak for everyone, but while I love to dress up and go out in public, I see the greater need for visibility and education. As a ->-bleeped-<-, I'm still learning much about it having discovered my own transvestism and ->-bleeped-<- only two years ago. If crossdressers and transgenders wish to be under a different umbrella, I do see what they are striving for. At the same time, I see possibly a lost opportunity for gays and lesbians to understand who we are and why we are what we are. To me, this is more important than what outfit I'm going to wear.
That's just one ->-bleeped-<-'s opinion.
Gennee
That's sad... you know, being transgendered and a bisexual... guess (to them at least) I don't count as a bisexual cuz I am trans...
We should be building bridges, not walls.
Hey Gennee, very interesting reply to this post. I've been in some gay places, and fortunately nothing has happened. That's an interesting point that you've made shy goth girl. I consider myself to be bisexual, because I do like men and woamn, and even though I am a trans, it's alright to be bisexual as well.
Gina :icon_biggrin:
I have TB too! (transGender Bisexuality).
Maybe the 3 of us can get together sometime and have an evening out as 3 couples ;D. It would be a very expensive evening :'( . Actually, since the 3 of us identify as female, I guess it means there'd be no males. :'( ???
*I'm joking, of course. Just having fun.
Quote from: RebeccaFog on May 16, 2007, 07:28:30 AM
I have TB too! (transGender Bisexuality).
Maybe the 3 of us can get together sometime and have an evening out as 3 couples ;D. It would be a very expensive evening :'( . Actually, since the 3 of us identify as female, I guess it means there'd be no males. :'( ???
*I'm joking, of course. Just having fun.
LOL! That's funny... but I think it would be fun to just go out with a few other trans girls (or just anyone, LOL.... I don't get out much these days)... and it'd be okay, I'm sure the 3 of us would have no problem finding guys....
*winks* Yes, I am a horrible flirt, don't encourage me... LOL
*hugs n gigglez*
As everyone here knows, gender identity and sexual orientation are two different things.
Before I started my transition I felt that I was a lesbian. I had always liked girls and I thought that wouldn't change. I was a little concerned about having to come out twice. Once as a transsexual and once as a lesbian.
Now that I am completely out, I find that while I still like to look at women, my feelings toward them seem to be changing. And their attitude toward me are changing as well. We don't relate the way I remember. I feel a bond with women that I never did before. Also there is none of that under tone of sexual tension that used to pervade every male-female relationship I had.
Men relate to me differently now. And now *I* am on the receiving end of the sexual under tone. And I am finding that relationships with a few of the men I knew before I transitioned are becoming more, shall we say, traditional? I'm not sure I like that in all cases. I did not drop 20 IQ points in my transition! Even if I did I'd still be ahead of them...
Anyway what I was getting at was that I don't know what orientation I will be going forward when I feel ready to have relationships again. I may be a traditional heterosexual woman or a lesbian. I truly don't know.
So to have the support of the Gay and Lesbian community gives me sanctuary while I have my gender and sexual orientation in the mix-master. I do know that I find acceptance in that community much more readily than in any other community. We accept each other as who we are. That is the important part!
I feel that we should be sticking together much more than we should be splitting apart.
-Sandy (I'm the "T" in LGBT and proud of it!)
Quote from: ShyGothGirl on May 15, 2007, 07:56:00 PM
That's sad... you know, being transgendered and a bisexual... guess (to them at least) I don't count as a bisexual cuz I am trans...
Well, in general, people who don't accept Ts don't accept Bs either. They prefer to think of us bisexuals as "gays in denial."
Well, to me that's just pure silliness... :P
I don't really prefer one sex over the other, and have had just as many successful relationships with women as I have with men. I love a person for who they are, not what they have between their legs.
I have been engaged to a woman, who is still my best friend today. And now I am currently engaged to a wonderful man. 'nuff said? lol
I've been fortunate. I found a support group here that is an LBT women's group. They accept me as a T and a B.
No Men need apply. I think FTM's would be welcome too though because they fit to a T. (get it?)
I don't think it's sexist because we also have a mens group in town for Gay men. I don't know enough to say they would accept TransMen, but I think they would.
Just my experiences
Quote from: Karen on May 13, 2007, 10:45:00 PM
This sort of thing has already happened in River City, with the renaming of the Lambda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_symbol#Lambda) Center to the Sacramento Gay and Lesbian Center (http://www.outsacramento.com/). I guess we ->-bleeped-<-s just don't count any more...
That sort of thing isn't happening in our community. I guess Minnesota is more liberal. I think it's related to being the first state to include Ts in an equal employment law back last century.
im a bi girl, and thats about it, i hve just fought to get T added to my students unions LGB group
and some wanted LGB & T, and i sort of agree now
i dont think they should be lumped
but i certainly dont think they should be cut off,
i do feel TV/CD and TS and more serious dysphoria conditions should be separate, if only for greater and easier understanding of a medical problem.
Hey Rebecca, that was funny, but I'd be game for it.
Quote from: Kassandra on May 16, 2007, 11:27:11 AM
As everyone here knows, gender identity and sexual orientation are two different things.
Before I started my transition I felt that I was a lesbian. I had always liked girls and I thought that wouldn't change. I was a little concerned about having to come out twice. Once as a transsexual and once as a lesbian.
Now that I am completely out, I find that while I still like to look at women, my feelings toward them seem to be changing. And their attitude toward me are changing as well. We don't relate the way I remember. I feel a bond with women that I never did before. Also there is none of that under tone of sexual tension that used to pervade every male-female relationship I had.
Very good points here, Kassandra. I had discussed the differences with my social worker, and at least we were both on the same page. Like yourself, I have had those feelings as well, and I find that I do get a long better with woman than I do with men. Forgive me for asking, but when you say that you're out, does that men that you're out a sa CD or a TS and are living 24/7?
Gina :icon_biggrin:
Quote from: Rachael on May 16, 2007, 08:18:56 PM
im a bi girl, and thats about it, i hve just fought to get T added to my students unions LGB group and some wanted LGB & T, and i sort of agree now
i dont think they should be lumped but i certainly dont think they should be cut off,i do feel TV/CD and TS and more serious dysphoria conditions should be separate, if only for greater and easier understanding of a medical problem.
I have noticed that some people in Canada say, "GLBTT" (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transsexual, and Transgender). They do it that way to specifically include CDs.
see now that aproach i like...
we dont call all homosexual or bi people gay now do we?
Quote from: Rachael on May 17, 2007, 11:18:01 AM
we dont call all homosexual or bi people gay now do we?
Actually, a lot of people
do use the word "gay" that way.
true...
but its not correct is it?
like calling all trans people transgender is TECHNICALLY right, they aren't all the same,
a gay man isn't going to sleep with a gay woman, because their both gay... :)
they define between GLB, why not between us? i think its only fair...
Quote from: Lisbeth on May 17, 2007, 10:40:07 AM
Quote from: Rachael on May 16, 2007, 08:18:56 PM
im a bi girl, and thats about it, i hve just fought to get T added to my students unions LGB group and some wanted LGB & T, and i sort of agree now
i dont think they should be lumped but i certainly dont think they should be cut off,i do feel TV/CD and TS and more serious dysphoria conditions should be separate, if only for greater and easier understanding of a medical problem.
I have noticed that some people in Canada say, "GLBTT" (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transsexual, and Transgender). They do it that way to specifically include CDs.
However there is always the terrifying possibility of having too many letters GLBTTACDBTW(GayLesbianBiTranssexualTransgenderAndrogyneCrossdresserBitransWeirdos)...Maybe we should just all be called, akward.
Also, I liked the choice of the word fling to title this post, is that meant to evoke some sort of petualant camp throwing?
The word 'fling' is certainly what grabbed my attention.
Would we need letters to indicate sub-groups of the "GLBTTACDBTW" designation?
I mean it's possible that nearsighted gays (NSG) might want to be recognized as their own community. Extremely Short TransWomen (ESTW) might want their own group too, and so on.
Please know that I am exercising my sense of humor
cant we have them and us?
would be so much simpler...
Quote from: Rachael on May 17, 2007, 01:22:30 PM
cant we have them and us?
would be so much simpler...
But what about usses that feel like thems, or thems that feel somewhat in between, or usses that want to be something altogether.
I would say in the whole world it is only us...even if some of us are a bit 'themmy' sometimes.
Quote from: Pica Pica on May 17, 2007, 12:19:11 PM
However there is always the terrifying possibility of having too many letters GLBTTACDBTW(GayLesbianBiTranssexualTransgenderAndrogyneCrossdresserBitransWeirdos)... Maybe we should just all be called, akward.
Some people just say, "the alphabet soup." It's why others just prefer "queer."
I think we should go on adding letters until all we get are people's chosen individual names - that tends to be where people show their best sides anyway.
My name is MXYZPTLK
Quote from: RebeccaFog on May 17, 2007, 03:19:11 PM
My name is MXYZPTLK
Pronounced Mixyozaptolek?
Are you a mexican deity?
Quote from: Pica Pica on May 17, 2007, 03:59:20 PM
Quote from: RebeccaFog on May 17, 2007, 03:19:11 PM
My name is MXYZPTLK
Pronounced Mixyozaptolek?
Are you a mexican deity?
Pronounced mixyeztipolik
I am from the 5th dimension.
Quote from: RebeccaFog on May 17, 2007, 04:00:42 PM
Quote from: Pica Pica on May 17, 2007, 03:59:20 PM
Quote from: RebeccaFog on May 17, 2007, 03:19:11 PM
My name is MXYZPTLK
Pronounced Mixyozaptolek?
Are you a mexican deity?
Pronounced mixyeztipolik
I am from the 5th dimension.
In that case, call me: dtfgh, pronunced ditfigih
/me puts down the blunt...
if we have people that want to be themmy, or ussy some of the time, or vice versa, we cant win....
OMG labeling fails...
hows about were people?
imo, gay, lesbian and bi should just be a person that loves people, im not going to pass up the love of my life because i happen to have the same genetalia... cant gender be the same? should be who they are... not who we want :)
/me picks up the blunt again.
Quote from: RebeccaFog on May 17, 2007, 03:19:11 PM
My name is MXYZPTLK
Now say it backwards. :: evil grin ::
Well, I read TOP and I can't say how saddened I was to read it. As one of this site's resident gay men, I'm ashamed that my fellow gays are so hostile to the "T" of GLBT. Our work has been to be proactively inclusive to ALL members of society... even those pesky straight folks.
Just know, dear friends... you have my full support.
Quote from: David W. Shelton on May 18, 2007, 07:30:50 PM
Quote from: RebeccaFog on May 17, 2007, 03:19:11 PM
My name is MXYZPTLK
Now say it backwards. :: evil grin ::
Well, I read TOP and I can't say how saddened I was to read it. As one of this site's resident gay men, I'm ashamed that my fellow gays are so hostile to the "T" of GLBT. Our work has been to be proactively inclusive to ALL members of society... even those pesky straight folks.
Just know, dear friends... you have my full support.
Hi David,
I knew that only a true believer would know how to send me home.
You're right about inclusion. Without it, all we have is a foundation full of cracks.
Dear David,
That has never been in doubt. I really believe this is the exception, not the rule. Thanks for being who you are.
Peace,
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
I'm saddened by this, both when we're excluded by GL groups, or when our community excludes GLB. While each subgroup does have their own unique issues, we share plenty of things in common. Oppression affects us all. Often when someone is bashed for being gay or lesbian, an underlying aspect of that hate is gender transgression. I've lived in many of the worlds of the "alphabet soup", G. L, B and T, and in all of them have found like minds, and at the same time often felt myself to be an outsider.
zythyra
muslims and christians are both religious groups, the both follow thier religious law and are both reasons people get prejudiced against...
lets make a church for all religions together to go to, because lets face it... thier all religions...
doesnt quite work does it?
maybe T doesnt belong with LG or B?
being LG or B and trans are mutually exlusive, so why group us together?
Quote from: Rachael on May 20, 2007, 02:27:58 PM
muslims and christians are both religious groups, the both follow thier religious law and are both reasons people get prejudiced against...
lets make a church for all religions together to go to, because lets face it... thier all religions...
doesnt quite work does it?
maybe T doesnt belong with LG or B? being LG or B and trans are mutually exlusive, so why group us together?
I disagree. When any one group begins to isolate itself from others who are fighting for similar rights, that group will then begin isolating itself into oblivion. We all need each other. It's sad that some in the GL community don't see it that way.
I'll use my friendship with Susan as an example. She has been as much a critical part of my life as anyone in the straight or gay community. I need her input, her opinions, and her thoughts to help balance out the actions that I take with the local Pride community or even the church.
When we are all a part of each others' lives, we begin to appreciate the value we all have for each other, and can take appropriate actions.
Further, I don't think it's fair to compare a religion to a person's sexual orientation or gender identity. Very few of us have ever chosen our SO or GI. While, in most cases, religion is almost always a choice... even if it's a choice to remain in the faith in which we were raised.
The reality is that we're all working for the same cause: equality. We should either strengthen our mutual strategies, or otherwise work together. If we don't, then we'll all fade into obscurity. And it's back into the closet we go.
I don't know about you guys, but I'm just not okay with going back into any closet. After all, mine kind of got nuked. :: shrug ::
Quote from: ShyGothGirl on May 15, 2007, 07:56:00 PM
That's sad... you know, being transgendered and a bisexual... guess (to them at least) I don't count as a bisexual cuz I am trans...
We should be building bridges, not walls.
I totally agree with you about building bridges, gothgirl.
Gennee
Quote from: Rachael on May 20, 2007, 02:27:58 PM
muslims and christians are both religious groups, the both follow thier religious law and are both reasons people get prejudiced against...
lets make a church for all religions together to go to, because lets face it... thier all religions...
doesnt quite work does it?
maybe T doesnt belong with LG or B?
being LG or B and trans are mutually exlusive, so why group us together?
There is a church for all religions. It's called Unitarian Universalism.
I've been going to one for a year now and we've held Jewish ceremonies, Islam ceremonies, Buddhist ceremonies, and a Kwanzaa one. The church respects all other religions.
QuoteUU Seven Principles
Unitarian Universalists covenant with each other to affirm and promote:
+ The inherent worth and dignity of every person
+ Justice, equity, and compassion in human relations
+ Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations
+ A free and responsible search for truth and meaning
+ The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large
+ The goal of world community, with peace, liberty, and justice for all
+ Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part
What drew me to the church is that it is open to Gays, Lesbians, and Transpeople. I am one of three Transpeople who attend services. I have found that I am very comfortable in this atmosphere.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as GLB or T being mutually exclusive. First and foremost, we are all people. We are all people who are born different than the majority of the population. We are all people who are born at random, and therefore, we must support each other because if there is only one Transperson in a small town, their best bet is that they will find support, or at least acceptance, amongst the Gay community. And vice versa.
Don't make me pull out the old sawhorses:
"A house divided against itself cannot stand." -- Abe Lincoln
"We must hang together, or surely we shall hang separately" -- Benjamin Franklin
"If you ain't seeing the big picture, you ain't seeing nothing" -- Me
Oh, and the only way I'm going back into the closet is if I'm no longer breathing.
Toodles
What's Kwanzaa?
I found this on a website. It is better than the messed up information I was going to give you.
Kwanzaa
Kwanzaa is a non-religious African American holiday which celebrates family, community, and culture. It is celebrated for seven days: December 26 - January 1.
The name Kwanzaa is derived from the phrase "matunda ya kwanza" which means "first fruits" in Swahili. The kinara is the center of the Kwanzaa setting and represents the original stalk from which we came: our ancestry.
============================================
The Seven Principles
The seven principles, or Nguzo Saba are a set of ideals created by Dr. Maulana Karenga. Each day of Kwanzaa emphasizes a different principle.
Unity (Umoja) - (oo-MO-jah)
To strive for and maintain unity in the family, community, nation, and race.
Self-determination (Kujichagulia) - (koo-gee-cha-goo-LEE-yah)
To define ourselves, name ourselves, create for ourselves, and speak for ourselves.
Collective Work and Responsibility (Ujima) - (oo-GEE-mah)
To build and maintain our community together and make our brother's and sister's problems our problems and to solve them together.
Cooperative Economics (Ujamaa)- (oo-JAH-mah)
To build and maintain our own stores, shops, and other businesses and to profit from them together.
Purpose (Nia) - (nee-YAH)
To make our collective vocation the building and developing of our community in order to restore our people to their traditional greatness.
Creativity (Kuumba)- (koo-OOM-bah)
To do always as much as we can, in the way we can, in order to leave our community more beautiful and beneficial than we inherited it.
Faith (Imani) - (ee-MAH-nee)
To believe with all our heart in our people, our parents, our teachers, our leaders, and the righteousness and victory of our struggle.
Sounds interesting, must be good for a small community...good for an individual too - I know I could focus on a few of them thins...though any focus at all would be a boon...