Ok let me start out by saying that my mom has told me and my brother many many times she wishes that we had been aborted, that our existence ruined her life and she constantly blames us for her lack of success. This hurts me more than you might know. I am supposed to exist here on earth and I have value and a purpose. This is why I still don't understand why women are so quick to have an abortion.
As it stands now from what I have gathered, men don't have any say so on whether they get to keep the baby or not. In the case of ftm it still would be up to them right? Whoever is having the baby , it's totally there choice right? So what about mtf? They want a baby but are seen as a woman, however the woman they are with wants an abortion, and so on and so forth.
Is it simply just whoever is carrying the baby then? However I still do not like the idea of an abortion unless there is no other choice. If you are having an abortion , because you simply just don't want a child or it gets in the way of your career, I would consider 1st to give up the child for adoption. But what if a unborn baby is just like a wart? I saw a movie called Sarah's Choice that said "You wouldn't let a wart control your life would you?"
Another thing is, when is it actually murder to end a baby's life? I had always seen it as being from conception, but I would like to know how you all feel about it. I mean we send mom's and dad's who kill baby's after they are just born to jail.
I realize this is a touchy subject but I would think that with the birth control and condoms and other methods to prevent birth that is out there, you would wonder why there are so many abortions.
I am not trying to tell anyone what to do with their body, but you have to see the flip side of all this, how would you feel if your parents told you that you should have been aborted. So let me hear your thoughts, please lets keep it a civil discussion as well.
I am a pro choice person. It's just who I am.
While I am a pro choice person, I would never tell a child I wished I had aborted her/him. That's awful. That isn't about pro choice or pro life...that's just someone who sounds very bitter.
I believe you are being treated abusively. I don't know about abortion per se. IMO, that's between a woman and their doctor. OTOH, your experience is not really about abortion, it is about your mother's verbal abuse saying she wishes you didn't exist over and over again. I don't know how old you are, but I would not put up with it. If you are in a position to move out, I would or get yourself in that position. You don't need that kind of toxin in your life.
I am sure there are many parents that did struggle with this question at one time or other and if they are parents opted to have the child. If they have these thoughts I think they need to shut up about them. It's inexcusable with your mother is doing.
--Jay
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 06, 2013, 02:40:44 PM
Ok let me start out by saying that my mom has told me and my brother many many times she wishes that we had been aborted, that our existence ruined her life and she constantly blames us for her lack of success. This hurts me more than you might know. I am supposed to exist here on earth and I have value and a purpose. This is why I still don't understand why women are so quick to have an abortion.
As it stands now from what I have gathered, men don't have any say so on whether they get to keep the baby or not. In the case of ftm it still would be up to them right? Whoever is having the baby , it's totally there choice right? So what about mtf? They want a baby but are seen as a woman, however the woman they are with wants an abortion, and so on and so forth.
Is it simply just whoever is carrying the baby then? However I still do not like the idea of an abortion unless there is no other choice. If you are having an abortion , because you simply just don't want a child or it gets in the way of your career, I would consider 1st to give up the child for adoption.
Another thing is, when is it actually murder to end a baby's life? I had always seen it as being from conception, but I would like to know how you all feel about it. I mean we send mom's and dad's who kill baby's after they are just born to jail.
I realize this is a touchy subject but I would think that with the birth control and condoms and other methods to prevent birth that is out there, you would wonder why there are so many abortions.
I am not trying to tell anyone what to do with their body, but you have to see the flip side of all this, how would you feel if your parents told you that you should have been aborted.
You wouldn't let a wart control your life would you?
Kia Ora Shawn,
It could be said that birth begins as a 'concept' [someone or an experience might plant the seed] and a change of mind can kill this concept...
Metta Zenda :)
well i am 40 years old and she says it often , at least 6 times a year, maybe more i try to block it out.
She is really topsy turvy my mother, one moment she cries and says she loves me, the next minute I am a mistake.
But why is it that fathers (mtf or otherwise) have no say so at all? I would like someone to explain to me why the dna and family of the father does not matter. Again please don't attack anyone and keep it civil.
On the matter of your mother attacking you in that way. Can you provide more information?
What were the regulations governing abortion in your area, when you and your brother were born?
we were both born in Texas, 1972 and 1975 respectively.
I heard my mom say things like that to me all my life, along with you are worthless, you are a burden, i wish you were not my child, things like that.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 06, 2013, 02:55:25 PM
But why is it that fathers (mtf or otherwise) have no say so at all?
The Supreme Court, in 1976, reaffirmed that the right of privacy allows women to be free of governmental interference in decisions about childbearing. The Court struck down parental and spousal consent laws that would allow a parent or husband to veto the abortion decision.
Oh ok then, well I personally i don't know what to say for the most part at this point, I think there are times that abortion is necessary, but if I was a cisgender woman and by some chance I got pregnant , I would just go with it and do my best, or if things were really rough I would give them up for adoption as there are many women who cannot have children of their own. Just my 2 cents. I would also consider my spouses feelings before I made a decision anyways.
I'm sorry that your mother says these hurtful things. She must be in a great deal of pain to say such things, but that doesn't excuse her.
Ever since I was a kid, I could not imagine myself having a baby. I figured I would adopt if I wanted kids. But I am obviously not a woman, nor was I a typical girl. I was a little boy, only nobody knew it.
I have been pregnant twice. The first time was a freak occurrence; we were both naked, and there was genital contact but no penetration. He must have been leaking a little, and one of the swimmers beat incredible odds. The second time, my boyfriend held me down and raped me while I begged him to use a condom. He obviously refused to comply.
I had absolutely no hesitation in obtaining an abortion when I got pregnant. There was no question in my mind. I was not having a kid.
The second time, I had to go through one of those assembly line clinics, and I wound up in a recovery room with lots of other...people. I seemed to be the only one who was much happier afterward than before, and the room was half full of good Catholic girls who were devastated by what they had been through. I was so merry that I was cracking jokes--I had no emotional connection whatsoever to the growth that had just been removed from my body--but I kept my eyes and ears open.
A few of the Catholic girls openly stated that they had refused to use birth control because it was a sin. Maybe they were weighing the certainty of that sin against the mere possibility that they would actually get pregnant and have to make a decision about it later. Maybe they thought that they would simply have the baby or that their boyfriend would marry them--but he didn't. (I only listened and did not ask questions.) One girl unequivocally stated that she could not bear the repeated sin of using a condom, say, fifty or a hundred times, whereas she saw an abortion as a one-time sin that she thought she could handle.
I wonder about the demographic breakdown. It might be that the clinic was very close to a large Latino/a community (I wasn't aware of such a community in that area), but maybe Catholic girls wind up getting abortions at a higher rate because they initially resisted the sin of using a condom.
P.S. You asked why fathers don't have the right to decide. I think this is right and proper. The pregnant person should have the final say--nobody should be forced to have a child he or she does not want, and I think that this right trumps everything else.
Yeah birth control is not a sin at all, nor is using a condom.
What about the 8,9th month of pregnancy, seems to me by a certain time that child is alive and has a right to be alive.
It is in fact up to the person carrying the baby (man, woman, or non-binary-identified), because it's *their* body and life on the line. This is actually argued and debated and analyzed exhaustively all over the place, both on- and off-line, so suffice it to say that the law is fairly clear on that point. It also specifies that abortion is illegal after the point of viability, which is when the fetus is able to survive outside of the womb. Nobody is actually performing abortions on 8-month babies. There are very VERY rare cases in which the baby is already dead and has to be removed before the mother dies of infection, which get mixed up into horror stories about murdering babies.
Personally, my mother said similar things about wishing she'd aborted to me, too. Of course, she's also Catholic and firmly believes in the Church's mandate that birth control is a sin... And she made it very clear that if I ever came home pregnant while I lived with her and wasn't married, she'd kill me. She wasn't kidding, either; not sure she'd risk the jail time except in the heat of passion, but this is the same woman who once threw me down a flight of stairs for mouthing off to her when I was 11, and hit me in the face with a wooden picture frame and knocked out a tooth when I was 4 - and that time was because she'd started shaking my two-year-old sister and I didn't want her to kill the toddler. She did heat of passion pretty well, and could accidentally have killed both of us. I don't doubt at all that she would have flown off the handle and I *and the fetus* might not have survived it if I'd admitted that I thought I was pregnant in college (turns out it was thankfully a false alarm). So there's a lot of nuance to these sorts of discussions, and approximately a million personal reasons why someone might choose abortion.
Myself, I have not known one single person who did it because of fear of jeopardizing a career, or got up one morning and decided they were bored with pregnancy, or any of the other "shallow" reasons that are often cited as accusations against people who have abortions. Of course, the catch is that depriving people of the right to abortion - or forcing them to meet some arbitrary standard in order to "earn" it - runs the risk of also penalizing anyone else who gets pregnant, even those that the person making the argument to limit it would agree were much less clear-cut cases. Like a lot of other legally granted rights, the fact that someone occasionally misuses it in someone else's eyes is the price of letting everyone choose.
Well I found yet another flip side, that is where a doctor demands a receptionist to have an abortion.
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/08/21/doctor-tells-his-receptionist-to-have-abortion-because-it-isnt/ (http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/08/21/doctor-tells-his-receptionist-to-have-abortion-because-it-isnt/)
As far as career's go, its already been asked, i found a number of threads on the subject, here is one example:
http://mailbag.penelopetrunk.com/2012/08/11/should-i-interrupt-my-career-or-get-an-abortion/ (http://mailbag.penelopetrunk.com/2012/08/11/should-i-interrupt-my-career-or-get-an-abortion/)
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 06, 2013, 02:58:38 PM
we were both born in Texas, 1972 and 1975 respectively.
I heard my mom say things like that to me all my life, along with you are worthless, you are a burden, i wish you were not my child, things like that.
It's taking ages, but I have a feeling that abortion was not very easy to get at that time in Texas.
The point is, I think your mother is simply tryng to hurt you. She is clearly neurotic and I'm sorry to say, neurotics do that when they become acute, which can be very often.
My mother, who was also very neurotic, used to swear at us in the most disgusting terms, she'd hit us with anything she could grab, one smashing one of my older brother's toys over his back. When she was calm, which became very rare as she got older, she couldn't understand why she behaved in that way at all. She was a former nun for whom swearing and curses were anathama
That sadly, is the reality of living with a neurotic. They hurt so much inside the only way to rationalise it is to hurt other, the closer to them, the more they love them, the better.
http://www.policyalmanac.org/culture/archive/crs_abortion_overview.shtml (http://www.policyalmanac.org/culture/archive/crs_abortion_overview.shtml)
http://www.texasrighttolife.com/about/145/Abortion-Myths (http://www.texasrighttolife.com/about/145/Abortion-Myths)
http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/history_abortion.html (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/history_abortion.html)
This is what I've searched so far, but will try to find better
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 06, 2013, 02:40:44 PM
Another thing is, when is it actually murder to end a baby's life? I had always seen it as being from conception, but I would like to know how you all feel about it.
I think if the baby's central nervous system is developed enough to be aware that something bad is happening and suffer, it's too late. Of course, it's hard to tell when that actually happens, but I doubt the "point of viability" is a very well defined point either, and that's apparently good enough to base a law on.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 06, 2013, 02:40:44 PM
how would you feel if your parents told you that you should have been aborted.
It'd depend on why they said it. If they blamed me for existing and resented me for it, then I'd be devastated and probably have major emotional problems from it. It wouldn't make a difference whether they wanted to abort me or didn't want to conceive me in the first place.
well apparently towards the end of your 6th month babies get "smarter." I don't think that as children they can remember being in the womb but studies show that once born they recognize your voice from when they began hearing it in the womb. Also, if you listen to certain music repeatedly while pregnant, they recognize it as newborns.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 06, 2013, 02:40:44 PM
This is why I still don't understand why women are so quick to have an abortion.
None of the women I know who have had abortions were "quick" to do so. It was life saving for at least two of the mothers (one of them had an embryo implant in one of her fallopian tubes).
It is rarely a "quick" decision.
no i suppose it is not. I am all for saving the life of the mother.
I definitely think having a baby should be up to the person carrying it. I personally would never have an abortion, however I don't think it's anyones place to dictate what someone else wants to do with their life/body. I do feel that people in todays world sometimes use abortion as a contaception method...I have a cousin who has gotten pregnant and had an abortion 9 times that I know of....yes 9! To me this is just irresponsible. Someone like this should be on birth control or not having sex. If you are raped, luckily now they will give you the morning after pill at the ER (which in thiat situation I would have no hesitation taking).
And to shawnsunshine.....I'm sorry you've had to hear your mother say that to you for 40 years! It was her choice to keep you, adoption would have been an option to her in the 70's but she made the choice to keep you. A mother should never make her child feel unwanted. Children don't ask to be here, no matter what the circumstances were regarding their conception.
QuoteI have a cousin who has gotten pregnant and had an abortion 9 times that I know of....yes 9! To me this is just irresponsible.
Yeah that is very irresponsible, there are all sorts of ways to not get pregnant.
Thanks for your kind words spring
QuoteChildren don't ask to be here
Well, I dunno but i am glad that I am here now.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 06, 2013, 04:05:30 PM
Well I found yet another flip side, that is where a doctor demands a receptionist to have an abortion.
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/08/21/doctor-tells-his-receptionist-to-have-abortion-because-it-isnt/ (http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/08/21/doctor-tells-his-receptionist-to-have-abortion-because-it-isnt/)
There's a lot of he-said-she-said in that story. I'd be very skeptical about believing the plaintiff's claims, though I can't be sure they are false. The story itself, though, raises a lot of doubts about how credible her story is.
Stories like this would be much more credible if any of them made it to an actual trial. This one is clearly not one of those. But I'll eat crow (not my own child, Crow, however) if this one gets to court.
I sympathize with how much hurt there can be in these stories for those of us who would have loved to be able to become pregnant and take a child to term. But many stories like these seem to be some sort of toxic combination of anti-abortion fantasies and desperate teenagers looking for a way to cope with a terrible economy.
Just wondering what's an MFT?
Male Female Transmogrifier?
::)
-Ani
But *really* this is not a question about abortion. This is a question of a parents verbal abuse of her children. Don't stick around this person. This person is hurtful and angry. It will spill out on you.
Abortion is very controversial and there are many viewpoints even here on susan's. But I don't think anyone would deny that this is abusive behavior.
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on January 06, 2013, 09:29:07 PM
But *really* this is not a question about abortion. This is a question of a parents verbal abuse of her children. Don't stick around this person. This person is hurtful and angry. It will spill out on you.
Abortion is very controversial and there are many viewpoints even here on susan's. But I don't think anyone would deny that this is abusive behavior.
--Jay
Good point. Thank you for that reminder, Jay.
Quote from: Ani on January 06, 2013, 09:25:42 PM
Just wondering what's an MFT?
Male Female Transmogrifier?
::)
-Ani
Oops, darn my temporary dyslexia :o
Quote from: aleon515 on January 06, 2013, 09:29:07 PM
But *really* this is not a question about abortion. This is a question of a parents verbal abuse of her children. Don't stick around this person. This person is hurtful and angry. It will spill out on you.
Abortion is very controversial and there are many viewpoints even here on susan's. But I don't think anyone would deny that this is abusive behavior.
--Jay
I agree.
@Shawn Sunshine
I'm very sorry to hear that your mother subjects you to such cruel verbal abuse. Clearly, abortion is a sensitive subject for you with good reason.
As a man with a womb, I'm very glad that the choice is available god forbid I ever need it.
And as man with siblings who are rape survivors, I'm also very glad the choice was available if they had needed it for such a horrible reason.
I've seen the so-called stats that less than 1% of abortions are result of rape. Or whatever the stat is. I'm not sure they can possibly know that given the very large number of rapes that go unreported and unprosecuted. If she (or he in the case of ftm) did not report the rape, why would he or she give it as the reason for the abortion?
Regardless, people with wombs have the right to control them.
I have total sympathy for those who were raped or had incest happen to them. (I have been raped myself when I was at the boys ranch) I have no problem protecting the health of the mother. If you feel like you would not be a good mother and are not ready or can't afford it, I would suggest adoption 1st, but would not be upset over it. I have no problem with someone having an abortion for these reasons.
I still have a problem with it though if its just because its not convenient. If you have the money and the time and you have a loving partner, and you were having unprotected sex, knowing that you wanted to get pregnant and then change your mind halfway through, i can't agree with it at that point.
I also have a problem with "not" telling your partner about it before you do it. My youngest brothers x-wife did this to him. He found out much later.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 07, 2013, 01:04:47 AM
I also have a problem with "not" telling your partner about it before you do it. My youngest brothers x-wife did this to him. He found out much later.
That is a sad situation. There are really no easy solutions.
here are no easy answers for incredibly difficult questions.
Shawn, I really feel for you being subjected to such abuse by your Mum, no matter what her personal problems are.
My personal opinion is that it is the person carrying the foetus to decide on the outcome. Yes I think there is a prerogative to tell the male, if the male is in a relationship with the pregnant person, but I'm not sure at all at what point the father has a choice in the decision. I'm not being deliberately wimpy about that. If the relationship is long term and loving then that would seemt to be a situation where the choice has to be decided mutually. If the relationship is casual well? If it is rape, incest etc then them male should be castrated and forced to eat his genitals. The decision on the pregnancy is purely up to the victim and either decision is equally correct.
The comment from Arch in regards to the abortion clinic and the Catholic girls deciding to have one sin rather than many, is part of the awful problem.
Why do religions ban contraception? In my view it can only be for stupid or evil reasons; and I cannot really get myself to believe that the heads of those churches are consciously evil. No matter my utter disregard for them.
The argument that contraception is pre-abortion appears facetious and based on dogma rather than logic. Yet I don't recall any of the religious proponents of this belief providing biblical links. I cannot comment on Islam etc as I have not read any of their religious books.
Rape has been used as a weapon of war forever. Recent conflicts in places such as the ex-Yugoslavia typified this, rape was used as a weapon forcing woman from different ethnic groups to bear children sired by rapists from another. This would lead to them being outcasts and for their societies to crumble.
It is by no means new of course, the English practiced it in a particular foul way when trying to conquer Scotland and Northern Island in the 1700's onwards.
So if we acknowledge that rape is forcing woman to carry a child that will not only ruin her social life (in the correct meaning of that word) but as a means of war and destruction of society then I feel we have to regard pregnancy in a different light.
Who owns the child? The sire or the mother?
OK we can say that my examples are relatively simple. A woman is horribly abused and her forced pregnancy should be allowed to be terminated if she wishes, except it is against her societies religious belief. She is damned either way.
Naturally it is no fault of the foetus and we all need to acknowledge, support and love the child born from such horror and of course the mother. But does her society?
Mine will; but I seem to stand alone on top of a hill a lot of the time.
Sadly answers to complex questions are very difficult to deal with in a logical manner by many people. I'll pick on the USA, where it seems the right answer is from the group who shout the loudest.
Speaking as somebody who has been pregnant twice and who seriously considered a late-term abortion of one of those pregnancies... it absolutely has to be the choice of the pregnant person to decide whether they wish to continue with a pregnancy. The reason for this is that pregnancy and childbirth are incredibly dangerous, painful and potentially traumatic things to go through, and nobody should have a right to demand that someone else should put their life at risk. That includes not forcing someone to go through pregnancy and childbirth just to give the baby away for adoption because that would somehow be 'better'. It isn't - that could be much more traumatic (and dangerous) than having an abortion. Like abortion, childbirth is not to be taken lightly.
The rights of the actual, living person who is pregnant should and must supercede any rights that a potential, unborn person may have (they don't have any rights, by the way - you're not considered a person until you've survived birth). And anyone who has ever cared for a newborn will tell you that their cognitive functions are nowhere near what you may consider to be distinctly 'human' - I would go so far as to say they're not recognisably 'human' (in terms of cognitive functions) until they're about 3 months old.
Most of the opposition to abortion comes from religious quarters. It still surprises me how pervasive religion is in certain parts of the world, to the extent that it affects public policy. And those religious leaders speak out against abortion for one reason and one reason only: bums on seats. They know that the best way to indoctrinate someone into religion is to do it when they're young because you're unlikely to believe their story if you first come across it as an adult. They depend on their followers producing children (who they indoctrinate) so that they can keep all that lovely cash rolling in for yet another generation. Any potential child aborted by their followers (or prevented via contraception) is a financial loss to them. That's also the reason why they tend to oppose same-sex marriage (less likelihood of children); and why the Catholic church forbids its priests & nuns from marrying or having children (so that nobody can inherit their property - it gets left to the church instead). It's all about the money.
Some people do use abortion as a routine form of birth control (particularly here in the UK) and I believe that is irresponsible in the extreme, particularly since birth control can be obtained free of charge. But that is the price of free choice: you have to accept that stupid people will be free to make stupid choices. The only solution to that is education.
Your mother is indeed abusive, as was mine. I'd never say something like that to my children, but my mother said it to me (I responded with "I wish you had, too!"). You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Quote from: FTMDiaries on January 07, 2013, 05:50:11 AM
That includes not forcing someone to go through pregnancy and childbirth just to give the baby away for adoption because that would somehow be 'better'.
This.
Shawn.
You can argue, discuss, analyses and twist this matter till the cows come home, but it will continue to affect you adversely until you as yourself why she said it. Then deal with that.
As it stands you're trying to start the abortion debate and sadly, there is no resolution to that.
Quote from: spacial on January 07, 2013, 06:18:21 AM
Shawn.
You can argue, discuss, analyses and twist this matter till the cows come home, but it will continue to affect you adversely until you as yourself why she said it. Then deal with that.
As it stands you're trying to start the abortion debate and sadly, there is no resolution to that.
when it comes to abuse you sometimes may never know why the abusers say or do what they did.
Quote from: spacial on January 07, 2013, 06:18:21 AM
Shawn.
You can argue, discuss, analyses and twist this matter till the cows come home, but it will continue to affect you adversely until you as yourself why she said it. Then deal with that.
As it stands you're trying to start the abortion debate and sadly, there is no resolution to that.
I have already tried to ask her why she says this. I just get an apology and then later on it gets brought up again. But my moms abusive behavior does affect how I see abortion.
I'm all for peoples rights, but I am not really pro life or pro choice, I am deciding to stick with elements of both sides.
I didn't make that very clear. I suggesting to you, for you to ask yourself. Your own perspective.
The problem of living with people with these sort of personalities, (for want of a better word), is they tend to grind you down.
You are in your 30s now, why are you still around?
I'm not arguing with your views. I disagree with everyone, including myself. Your views are your own concern as are your reasons.
But why do you stay?
I actually left Texas a while ago, i only came back here because I wanted to meet my biological dad and see my aunts and uncles again and cousins etc. I was born here and I came back in 2004, but I am going to Oakland by October of this year.
I don't live with my mom but she is 9 miles from me. She moved back here to see her children and sisters/brothers (my younger brother and I)
I love my mom, and yet some days I don't like her at all.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 07, 2013, 01:04:47 AM
I still have a problem with it though if its just because its not convenient. If you have the money and the time and you have a loving partner, and you were having unprotected sex, knowing that you wanted to get pregnant and then change your mind halfway through, i can't agree with it at that point.
People are going to do what they're going to do. Are you proposing that people self-regulate and not seek abortion under such circumstances? That's not going to happen. Are you proposing that people's access to abortion be regulated according to their situations? That's not going to happen, either. Why are other people's motives for abortion such a big issue for you?
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 07, 2013, 11:58:46 AM
I actually left Texas a while ago, i only came back here because I wanted to meet my biological dad and see my aunts and uncles again and cousins etc. I was born here and I came back in 2004, but I am going to Oakland by October of this year.
I don't live with my mom but she is 9 miles from me. She moved back here to see her children and sisters/brothers (my younger brother and I)
I love my mom, and yet some days I don't like her at all.
OK. You moved away but couldn't bear to be away
So would you say you chose to continue this relationship with your mother?
Have you ever read about those people who survived their abortions as babies back in the 70's? That sends chills down my spine, bleh. >.<
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 06, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Yeah that is very irresponsible, there are all sorts of ways to not get pregnant.
But
none of them are 100% reliable. My ex and I had a pregnancy scare within the first year of our relationship, as she was in the middle of her first year of med school. Fortunately for us, we didn't have to make a tough decision, as it was a false alarm, but we did have some very difficult moments in the discussion. Neither of us would have found abortion easy, but it was still something we might have had to consider seriously if the scare had turned out to be a real pregnancy.
FWIW, we were using a combination of diaphragm and condom 100% of the time when this happened. This was also before the advent of the morning after pill.
We were still essentially undecided by the time that the alarm turned out to be one we didn't have to reach a decision on. I really can't say what our decision would have been.
But, if she had come to a decision that I was more ambivalent about at that time, I know I would have respected her final say so and supported it as well as possible emotionally and otherwise. I have a serious problem with any law that amounts to a form of slavery, and that's how I feel many of the positions that argue against freedom of choice here. It might be how I've limited my range of friendships, but I've never met anyone who would make an abortion decision casually or without considerable thought and mourning.
Quote from: BlueSloth on January 06, 2013, 08:09:10 PM
I think if the baby's central nervous system is developed enough to be aware that something bad is happening and suffer, it's too late. Of course, it's hard to tell when that actually happens, but I doubt the "point of viability" is a very well defined point either, and that's apparently good enough to base a law on.
It'd depend on why they said it. If they blamed me for existing and resented me for it, then I'd be devastated and probably have major emotional problems from it. It wouldn't make a difference whether they wanted to abort me or didn't want to conceive me in the first place.
All organs and organ systems are structural and organizational developed by the end of the 12th week of gestation, thereafter is all about maturation and geometric growth.
As far as abortion, it firmly belief that is not something that should be legislated by the courts or by the church (or any religious organizations). The decision to undergo an abortions should almost always be of the woman and the woman alone.
I think at 40 Yo you should put more distance between you mother (and family) and yourself. In doing so you will find more peace and create an environment more supportive of your transitioning.
Well i am going to do that eventually, however I do not want to just cut off all ties entirely.
QuoteThe decision to undergo an abortions should almost always be of the woman and the woman alone.
Or a FTM (whoever has the womb)
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine link=topic=133297.msg1059645#msg1059645 date=1357600652
Or a FTM (whoever has the womb)
/quote]
Not in your life time
Quote from: peky on January 07, 2013, 05:21:21 PM
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 07, 2013, 05:17:32 PM
Or a FTM (whoever has the womb)
Not in your life time
Not sure I understand your point, peky. Or perhaps you read FTM as MTF?
Short of a hysterectomy, FTMs are capable of becoming pregnant, even when dosed to male benchmark levels of testosterone. As long as the uterus and other parts are intact, it's still a potential risk, assuming sperm finds its way inside.
Quote from: Elspeth on January 07, 2013, 05:46:31 PM
Not in your life time
Not sure I understand your point, peky. Or perhaps you read FTM as MTF?
Short of a hysterectomy, FTMs are capable of becoming pregnant, even when dosed to male benchmark levels of testosterone. As long as the uterus and other parts are intact, it's still a potential risk, assuming sperm finds its way inside.
You are right, I tend to invert and transpose letters special when capitalized. I stand corrected. And yes my comment extends to pregnant FTM as well
Quote from: Elspeth on January 07, 2013, 05:46:31 PM
Not in your life time
Not sure I understand your point, peky. Or perhaps you read FTM as MTF?
Short of a hysterectomy, FTMs are capable of becoming pregnant, even when dosed to male benchmark levels of testosterone. As long as the uterus and other parts are intact, it's still a potential risk, assuming sperm finds its way inside.
This true I saw a documentry on a trans couple where the mother MTF and father FTM were on HRT for a few years, no SRS yet, and still concieved a child, even tho in medical terms MTF on HRT for 6 months should be infertile and I wasnt to sure on the FTM side of the medical stuff tho.