I have Bipolar disorder (type II). I was diagnosed when I was fifteen (I was in a mental hospital for self harm issues) and that was also around the time being trans was also heavily on the forefront of my mind constantly. I know there are people who disagree with my viewpoint on the subject and that is fine, but I believe being a transsexual (dealing with the dysphoria especially) is a mental illness. Our hormone therapy and surgeries are what alleviate the symptoms because the medical community has nothing else to offer us that will.
My question is, does anyone else have a mental illness (no, you don't have to say what it is if you're uncomfortable doing so) that is unrelated to being trans? If so, do you also think of being trans as another mental illness or something possibly effected by the mental illness you have?
Depression, Asperger's and ADD, for me.
ADHD and Bipolar I. Though, the Bipolar has not been an issue since I started transition. Yay!
Interesting topic Simon. I suffer from depression and anxiety. I also have anger issues which I know isn't a mental illness but I flip off the rails very rapidly. The depression was caused by things completely unrelated to being trans but I do think subconsciously the problems I had with my gender were probably a contributing factor. I didn't know what being trans meant and I didn't know that this was what I was until a couple of years ago. I don't agree that being trans is a mental illness but my mental illness makes it hard to deal with being trans sometimes.
Joey
One, there's an important distinction to be made between a disorder and an illness. Illness implies a cure is possible. My therapist and I discussed this at length, and fortunately he was not one of those who subscribes to a purely medical model. Many things (like ADHD) that laypeople might describe as an "illness" are just variations in normal human functioning, and from the history of Two Spirit roles and such in various cultures, I assume that trangendered identities are probably the same, something that affects a minority (in the case of transgendered identities, a very tiny minority) of people. It's far too early to conclude from the limited and often biased research that's been done so far exactly what the biological, genetic or other factors might be that are at play here. I doubt it's a complete fluke, though, that I have a son who is FTM, with some of the same issues about androgyny that I have, coming from an MTF experience.
I was diagnosed as Bipolar much later on, as a result of a therapist thinking that despite my expressed concerns I was anything other than depressed and anxious... I do tend to wonder whether in the long run there might be some other changes made in diagnosis. Mine only came about due to the profound mania that affected me after less than 2 weeks on the SSRI, Celexa.
I do tend to think that many of the triggers for my depressive bouts have come from feeling trapped in a society that does not cope effectively or compassionately with either women or transgendered individuals, but I refuse to make any more of it than that, for my own peace of mind. It strikes me as a way of thinking that simply fuels the sorts of things that tend to amplify depressive moods, considered in the context of cognitive behavioral therapy, which has been, aside from meditation, perhaps the only really effective approach to handling those depressive thoughts.
Possibly, if I could manage to move forward with the practical steps of transition (HRT in particular) I might also see some improvements from that.
For myself, it's like "which came first, the chicken or the egg"...am I trans because I'm mentally ill, or am I mentally ill because I'm trans?
Although my minds wrestle with it, my heart just sings a line from Lady Gaga..."Baby, you were born this way!"
;)
Quote from: Beth Andrea on February 25, 2013, 01:16:02 PM
For myself, it's like "which came first, the chicken or the egg"...am I trans because I'm mentally ill, or am I mentally ill because I'm trans?
This^
I am having an extremely hard time at the moment an I'm not sure if it has to do with Bipolar, trans, or what. I did manage to leave the house for the first time in over six weeks on Saturday. Even if it was just to the grocery store, it's a start.
I have depression and Asperger's Syndrome, and some social anxiety for good measure.
The depression is a consequence of the AS. I was rejected and bullied by my peers as a child, and it's left me with a total lack of self-confidence or self-worth. I think that my gender issues are at the very least influenced by it as well. I've often felt that if I didn't have AS and thus had access to normal social development as a kid, I'd probably be a happy, cisgendered, maybe even heterosexual, woman. Instead I'm a suicidal, trans-something, asexual/gynephilic freak. I know that it's controversial to suggest that childhood experiences can influence sexual orientation or gender identity, but that's just how it feels for me.
There's also the symptoms of AS itself. It robs me of social skills, makes me literal-minded and good at understanding systems... it essentially gives me a stereotypically masculine brain. In light of that, it's no wonder I don't feel like a female.
As for whether or not ->-bleeped-<- is a mental illness... (I'd say it's more of a disorder, like AS, rather than an illness, but that's splitting hairs, and probably isn't strictly true for all trans* individuals.) Mental illness can be pretty tough to define, but the definition that I think works best is that it's a set of thoughts and/or behaviours that make everyday function a huge struggle. Under that definition, ->-bleeped-<- is absolutely a mental illness. I don't think this means that the ideal cure would be to make us cis, however. Transition usually alleviates the dysphoria that makes getting through the day a struggle for trans* folks, and that makes it an appropriate cure.
I have a hard time leaving my place too...unless it's for work or to see my friends, I really have to tighten myself down or else my anxieties take over.
But, once I realized that testosterone is an actual poison for "us", it didn't matter which came first...We *need* to transition, if for nothing else but just to take away that poison.
Quote from: Simon on February 25, 2013, 01:27:50 PM
I am having an extremely hard time at the moment an I'm not sure if it has to do with Bipolar, trans, or what. I did manage to leave the house for the first time in over six weeks on Saturday. Even if it was just to the grocery store, it's a start.
I know how you are feeling, exactly. I also have to deal with bipolar disorder - when I am dealing with the downswing of it I have crippling social anxiety. Going to the grocery store has also been a huge step for me at times too (self checkout helps, hah) , which seems really silly to people who don't understand what it is like to deal with this. I just had to deal with a medication change after a long period of depression. Winter really seems to trigger it.
I think being trans exacerbates the feelings mood disorders cause, for sure. I don't think being trans is itself a mental illness, but it complicates existing problems significantly. The life of every trans person is anxiety and depression inducing at times, and stuff we have to deal with can probably even trigger mood disorder issues that would have remained latent if we were cisgendered.
But for people that have genetic and environmental causes that lead to extreme mood disorders that sometimes cause hospitalization and mandate being on very strong medication to keep it in check, it really means we have to fight multiple fronts of our wars with our selves at the same time, constantly.
I especially don't like people around me who have helped me get through extremely rough patches thinking being trans is just another facet of some manic phase I went through, because it allows them to discount it, when it reality, transitioning actually helps me get through life significantly.
Quotewhen it reality, transitioning actually helps me get through life significantly
Yay! An affirmation of what I've been saying for the past 18 months!
*hugs* :)
Quote from: AlexD on February 25, 2013, 01:36:53 PM
I know that it's controversial to suggest that childhood experiences can influence sexual orientation or gender identity, but that's just how it feels for me.
I agree with that statement. I think people are products of their environments in many cases. I'm not sure how/if my upbringing contributed to me being trans though. I was never socialized as a child. Never had a birthday party, sleepover, joined a sports team, etc and to this day I have a hard time being social or in social situations.
Quote from: spacerace on February 25, 2013, 01:42:14 PM
I know how you are feeling, exactly. I also have to deal with bipolar disorder - when I am dealing with the downswing of it I have crippling social anxiety. Going to the grocery store has also been a huge step for me at times too (self checkout helps, hah) , which seems really silly to people who don't understand what it is like to deal with this. I just had to deal with a medication change after a long period of depression. Winter really seems to trigger it.
I think being trans exacerbates the feelings mood disorders cause, for sure. I don't think being trans is itself a mental illness, but it complicates existing problems significantly. The life of every trans person is anxiety and depression inducing at times, and stuff we have to deal with can probably even trigger mood disorder issues that would have remained latent if we were cisgendered.
I hate to see that someone else goes through this but it is nice to not feel alone. I'm in a downswing currently. I have a physical condition too and have to travel to Washington DC in a few weeks...by myself...for a after surgery follow up. I am freaking out about it, big time. It is hard for people to understand who don't go through it. You're so right about that. It's hard to seek help or ask for help also.
Maybe that is what I am experiencing. The Bipolar is being exacerbated by the trans. I'm not sure. I'm currently not on medication because I refuse it. My physical illness is rare and the last time I was on medication my kidney tumors grew rapidly. The docs aren't certain if that had anything to do with the heavy doses of anti psychotic drugs I was prescribed so now I am afraid to take anything.
Asperger's, depression, anxiety. Not a pleasant combination, particularly if you're trans.
I find it difficult to cope with change because of Asperger's, but I need to transition.
I'm very depressed atm because a) the medical profession is dragging its heels with my transition, and b) my home life is going to hell in a handbasket.
Which makes me highly anxious... which makes me depressed... and round & round it goes. ::)
Quote from: Simon on February 25, 2013, 02:01:15 PM
I agree with that statement. I think people are products of their environments in many cases. I'm not sure how/if my upbringing contributed to me being trans though. I was never socialized as a child. Never had a birthday party, sleepover, joined a sports team, etc and to this day I have a hard time being social or in social situations.
Yeah, I know how you feel. Thanks to the AS I never got a chance to do that stuff either, and on the rare occasions I did, I was acutely aware of how little I fit in with the other kids. The way they thought and behaved was just so alien to me, especially during adolescence, that I wonder if I'd been born male if I'd still feel dysphoric anyway, just because that alienation taught me to identify as Other.
Quote from: FTMDiaries on February 25, 2013, 02:07:05 PM
Asperger's, depression, anxiety. Not a pleasant combination, particularly if you're trans.
Hah, so true. AS is a particular bitch to have alongside gender dysphoria, because people tend to assume you're just too broken or stupid to understand gender roles, and that if only they could teach you how to wear make-up or get you to try on a flattering dress, you'd suddenly "get it" and the dysphoria would vanish.
I also have anxiety issues, actually. I'm not sure why I did not mention that. I need to take medication for it, but I haven't been on the medication for a while. Months. I think it'd do me well to try to get back on. I was never supposed to stop taking them, and I'm paying for it now.
I'm an abuse survivor which is not specifically a mental illness, but I can trace all (or almost all) my psychological problems to it. I can describe in detail what's wrong and how it went wrong.
For me, being trans is a completely different thing, but I also understand that other people's mental disorders are less environmentally caused than mine and perhaps being trans can be compared to those. I don't know.
Just addiction issues and social anxiety (most probably caused by girls), possible PTSD from grief. They tried to say I had other stuff when I was hospitalized at 14 (like antisocial personality; yeah I'm a real sociopath ::)). Put me on a ton of heavy meds.
I'd say none of the issues I have are organic. And none were present before my GID. There's no history of addiction or alcoholism in my family either. The addictions and psychological torment from females are probable effects of GID/being trans, etc. I simply haven't been through anything to cause any mental issues. No abuse or anything (unless you count corporal punishment). The worst thing in my childhood was going through puberty. My problems seem to all stem from being trans and started at puberty.
I've gotten some diagnoses in my time, but I'm a little hesitant to act as though they mean anything. I know where the majority of my issues came from. I was diagnosed with major depression disorder as a teenager, but the reason I felt that way was because I was in love with a female friend, it wasn't reciprocated (that was the biggest thing), and it was obviously making me afraid because I didn't want to be a "lesbian." I was also dealing with some very unhealthy dynamics in the home.
And the other times counsellors and doctors suggested I had depression, there were reasons to feel that way as well. I was put on anti-depressants because I had my T letter but didn't start T because I wanted my family to be OK with it. That would wear down on anyone, especially as I never passed. And then there was after my breakup...well, that was a major loss, since both of us planned to get married...it was really just a question of when we'd be able to do so.
So of course I felt depressed, lost, and so on and so forth in those situations. If they hadn't have gone down the way they did, maybe I'd have been much better off.
But the one diagnosis I can agree with is anxiety. it does seem to be a persistent issue, even when things are generally fine. It's something I'm constantly working on, and it's something that runs in my family.
I have an anxiety disorder which I medicate nowadays. My sister, my mum, my aunts, and my cousin all have it, so the origins of that one are pretty clear.
I have a tendency towards major depression, courtesy of my dad's side. The trans thing was among the triggers for my two episodes.
I also have a diagnosis for borderline personality disorder, which I think is garbage. It was just the dysphoria getting mislabeled.
I would say being trans is a contributing factor to my issues I guess.
I tend to place my transsexualism more in the same category as my migraines. It has a psychological impact, but a physiological origin. But that's really just a guess. As always we need more research to know for sure.
Quote from: Simon on February 25, 2013, 12:39:25 PM
My question is, does anyone else have a mental illness (no, you don't have to say what it is if you're uncomfortable doing so) that is unrelated to being trans? If so, do you also think of being trans as another mental illness or something possibly effected by the mental illness you have?
I have (or at least) been dignosed with asperger, its not an mentall illness but a handicap. at least for where I live (I see some people disagree on it)
I dont think its related to being trans cause I grew up in autism comunetys and even amount 100 of other poeple with simular dignose I still felt alone/misunderstood with the fellings of my gender :(, but I do think that many transgender folks can be dignosed with autism cause we have alot of things in common who could be cause of being trans. ex I where very much alone when I where a kid and now I wont decribe myself as being asocial. the reason back then was because it was better for me to be a guy in my head than to face the world as a girl. also I had a short temper which I dont have anymore and in general isnt in my nature, but not being yourself can simple be frustrating and it made very angry at times. I dont say transgender people cant be ADHD,autism and so on, Im just saying that for my own view I am sceptical cause I see simularety on these "typical trans things" on how transpeople react if there not understood, and the typical signs of autism people.
maybe there could also be biological facts with more people getting autism if there transgender cause it said autism people usunally have more of a male brain (which is why so many guys compared to girls get the dignose) but again I dont belive we are we can say anything about that yet as we dont know enough about the brain.
---
I dont know if I have anything beside, I probably have but I never been tested for it.
I am general sceptical of the dignose system cause I feel it overused so I dont put much into it, I use to teel people I am blind in numbers, cause I have a problem with it, but I have never been dignose, I been dignose with asperger but I honestly dont feel I belong in the dignose so I dont really tell people that unless there asking something about my background the only mentall illness I belive is related to me being trans is depression.
-
In my country transexualism is a mentall illness the same way homosexualety have been for 30 years ago.
I dont belive transgender as being a mentall illness, I belive its natural varientation for folks to be diffrent.
we arnt "opposite of each other" jing/jang, male/female, we are parts of each other,
thats how I see it and some accient culture have more gender free views who alllows trans* more than the modern world.
I think alot of the problem have been in people starting to put things in boxes and getting strange ideas.
the Christians got the bad eyes on the norse religious,
the nazi blames the jew, the white folks mistread the black. generally everything unusual which cant be understood are tend to be seen as "illness" even when its not.
I dont belive things as asperger being an illness either. the funny thing is the number in people getting the dignose grows alot, there could be 2 reasons for that. one is the logical one that there is more awareness and more people get dignosed, but science also suggest that its because its a mutation of humankinds.
a mutation is neither a illness nor a handicap, but in the current world we live in it can be a handicap cause there less in numbers.
if everyone had autism and you didnt you would be the one who got dignosed.
this is something funny to think about.
Some people say that I have ADHD simply because I like to do things fact and get bored easily, but I frankly don't even believe that such a thing exists. I just don't take the effort to focus on things that don't stimulate me. :P
I know I might take some heat for this, but I think that by a technicality, being trans is a mental disorder. Once again, only by a TECHNICALITY. We are "abnormal" in our minds, so we could be said to technically have a mental disorder, even though I don't care of what such people have to say. :P
I think I might have PTSD if that counts.
Quote from: DianaP on February 25, 2013, 06:02:44 PM
Once again, only by a TECHNICALITY. We are "abnormal" in our minds, so we could be said to technically have a mental disorder, even though I don't care of what such people have to say. :P
everyone is a little f* up in there head, but usunally they dont wanna show it,
I guess thats why drinking partys and soccer is so popular, your actually allowed to be mad XD
Quote from: Natkat on February 25, 2013, 06:15:10 PM
everyone is a little f* up in there head
Truth. That's why I think the "it's only an illness if it makes you miserable" model is useful for mental illness. If you're crazy, but you're surviving happily and you're not hurting anyone, there's no problem.
Quote from: AlexD on February 25, 2013, 06:19:04 PM
Truth. That's why I think the "it's only an illness if it makes you miserable" model is useful for mental illness. If you're crazy, but you're surviving happily and you're not hurting anyone, there's no problem.
So true. I would even go as far as to say that I
need craziness to live. :icon_crazy: Life would just be boring without it.
Long pedigree of the crazies, and I've already had ADD slapped on me. I tend towards anger and sadness, but even my mother who is always screaming that she's going to put me away in a mental institution agrees that my negativity is justified. But she won't do anything to help ease my stress ;-;
I don't think of ->-bleeped-<- is an illness of the mind, but more an illness arising from the non-congruence between body and mind. As such, it's neither mental nor physical, but only exists as a relative condition. Living with it, however, can weaken the defenses of the mind and cause all kinds of instability. I've noticed a trend of AD(H)D, anxiety, and depression among respondents; I can only wonder how being trans can do that to a person :P
Quote from: DianaP on February 25, 2013, 06:02:44 PM
Some people say that I have ADHD simply because I like to do things fact and get bored easily, but I frankly don't even believe that such a thing exists. I just don't take the effort to focus on things that don't stimulate me. :P
I know I might take some heat for this, but I think that by a technicality, being trans is a mental disorder. Once again, only by a TECHNICALITY. We are "abnormal" in our minds, so we could be said to technically have a mental disorder, even though I don't care of what such people have to say. :P
That's not really where the division gets made. There are brain conditions, which are physiological. And mental conditions, which are psychological.
Otherwise migraines would be in the DSM. They aren't.
I would argue that dysphoria could be a mental disorder. But transsexualism probably isn't. And generally with mental disorders that are caused by physical disorders, they don't get classified as mental disorders. That's why intersex conditions used to preclude transsexualism, for example. Or why if you have a brain tumor making you crazy, you aren't generally diagnosed as mentally ill.
But then the DSM is like so broken at this point that I'm not sure there is even a reasonable argument to be made around classification anyway. Basically it's all arbitrary, politically and financially motivated nonsense.
I have Bipolar I, social anxiety disorder, and an eating disorder that's gone by many different names over the years. I was always a little off even as a kid, I've had panic attacks as long as I can remember and I was always really really shy around strangers, not to mention I hardly slept at all. But I was pretty well adjusted. It wasn't till around the time puberty started that I became really messed up. I think it was just the stress of it (and the crazy amounts of gender dysphoria) that really set me off. Anyone who has a genetic predisposition towards mental illness will most likely become ill when faced with something as stressful and painful as being transgendered. There's the chicken and egg scenario again. Well, statistically speaking, most people with a mental illness have a family history of it, espescially bipolar disorder. It can't come from nowhere. Like there's four people who I can think of off the top of my head who obviously have an undiagnosed form of bipolar in my family. Nobody has it as badly as I do.
Transgederism is not an illness, but the stress of being transgendered will cause it in pretty much anyone with any vulnerability towards mental illness, which is most people. The same way someone who's been abused, or someone who's lived through war is more likely to develop an illness. I think we all deserve a gold star for not being permanent members of psych wards with all the stress we go through on a daily basis :P
Quote from: Sarah7 on February 25, 2013, 08:00:22 PM
That's not really where the division gets made. There are brain conditions, which are physiological. And mental conditions, which are psychological.
Otherwise migraines would be in the DSM. They aren't.
I would argue that dysphoria could be a mental disorder. But transsexualism probably isn't. And generally with mental disorders that are caused by physical disorders, they don't get classified as mental disorders.
Mental illness is absolutely caused by physiological processes just as much as migraines or brain tumors, though of course given they are psychiatric issues they should be in the DSM while tumors and migraines are not as you say. I agree dysphoria is not a psychiatric problem.
Mental illness is not a psychological problem alone, however. There's a reason they can be treated with chemical pharmaceuticals - mental illnesses are caused by structural brain problems laid out by genetic incongruities that cause chemical misfirings which can be exacerbated or sparked by environmental conditions.
Quote from: Simon on February 25, 2013, 12:39:25 PM
My question is, does anyone else have a mental illness (no, you don't have to say what it is if you're uncomfortable doing so) that is unrelated to being trans? If so, do you also think of being trans as another mental illness or something possibly effected by the mental illness you have?
I've had a number of issues over the years. Depression, Bi-Polar disorder, Social Anxiety, PTSD, avoidant personality... but I feel like all of them are related to growing up trans in a society where that wasn't acceptable. Most of my issues stem directly from social isolation and a lack of early childhood socialization.
In my mind I don't view any of these things as mental illness or something arising from a chemical imbalance. Instead I see them as the leftover echoes of what were once essential coping mechanisms. While I was growing up I had specific reasons to be depressed, socially anxious and avoidant. They were rational reactions to my life.
The problem is that the ways you learn to behave or perceive the world at an early age are some of the hardest things to change. Likewise it's hard to make up for normal childhood socialization that has passed you by. It's hard to convince yourself that your world is a safer place than it was when you were 5.
In my case, I think all of the prescriptions and labels have not done a fraction of the good that that could have been accomplished with just a modicum of acceptance, belonging and a safe place to be myself.
Depression,anxiety,OCD,social anxiety,avoidant personality disorder,had issues with self harming and eating disorders.Probably agrophobic and bi polar too.To me it's part of my character like being tall and having green eyes
Bipolar II (depressed, severe) and BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) I was also in the hospital several times from suicidal gestures/attempts & self harm. Since I've come out as trans to everyone I know I haven't self-harmed in almost 4 or 5 weeks and have had no signs of depression or hypomanic episodes. I have been SUPER happy. I do get some bouts of depression when I am faced with health care insurance policy difficulties. My therapist says during my transition she expects my mood to fluctuate A LOT. Even though I have these underlying conditions they just seemed to be exacerbated by being trans.
I've never been diagnosed with anything but I think there's going on in my brain.I used to have seizures as a toddler, and then I have had multiple smacks on the head,I was never taken to a doctor for any of them, but I had the symptoms of concussions for 11 of the times things went flying and hit my head. After my tenth or ninth (or was it 8th?) head injury I started having Trans feelings, as well as a noticeable lack of ability to remember things.
bipolar as well but i think that the fact my genitals dont match my brain is 100 percent a physical problem. I had a few other physical symptoms related to genital abnormalites so i lean towards an identidy of intersexed if i pushed to chose one.
I have bipolar type II as well. I as in and out of hospitals when I was 13-15 as well. At that time I was unaware of being trans, though.
I have Asperger's syndrome coupled with depressive tendencies and anxiety attacks (sheer, irrational get-out-a-cave-lion-is-chasing-you fear, usually caused by pretty much anything; it's annoying when it happens while I'm having fun) and season-bound depression.
I don't see these problems as connected with my being trans, as life in general and my happiness has increased when starting transition. I may not be 100% sane, but it's far better than it has been and now I can look forward to the future and living life.
Had my first proper anxiety attack when I was 13; thought I was either going stark raving mad or that I was going to die from a heart attack. Started self-harming when I was about 8 or 9, just little things like scratching myself, tearing off my toenails or pinching myself. Started binge eating when I was about 11, tried to purge the food when I got into puberty since I connected puberty with becoming fat and food was part punishment, part reward (not a very healthy or reasonable mindset). Have been feeling down in the winter and spring pretty much since I started going to school, it got bad when I was 13 and got seriously depressed; suicidal episodes have happened as well. Currently I'm not doing too well as I've been having anxiety attacks more frequently and am in the middle of my depressive state.
Sorry for the whining, hope everyone's doing alright today. If not, I send you a support hug and a cuppa tea.
Depression. It's not related to being trans as such - everyone in my family has Prozac in the medicine cabinet - but it's triggered by stress and dysphoria is stressful.
I see being trans as a physical illness. My hormone levels are screwy, which is a physical condition. QED.
Reading through all of these makes me a little sad.
I know this might be an unpopular opinion but I think heavily medicating children causes a lot of damage. Many people start being diagnosed with things in the early teens – very formative years as it is, especially in the brain (science has shown that teenager's brains are not fully developed). Throw in raging hormones and social pressures and school, etc. it's enough to break plenty of people down. I think that's natural. What's unnatural is diagnosing kids with sever mental disorders/illnesses, shutting them up in hospitals, and pumping them full of chemicals. What's crazy to me is how many more of these mental disorders and illnesses are being diagnosed now as opposed to even 20 years ago (when I was going to high school for instance there just weren't any kids on anti-depressants/anti-anxiety meds ... everyone didn't have ADD/ADHD, etc.). I had a school psychologist tell me I had "gender identity disorder" and told me I had a mental illness. That totally screwed me up and freaked my parents out and basically made the next 10+ years of my life hell. Up until that point I just considered myself "different" from other kids (still never considered myself female in any way) and I was relatively happy. I wonder how many other cases happen where the diagnosis screws someone up like that?
In my mid 20's I'd been diagnosed with anxiety disorder. When that happened, I thought, oh here we go again ... I'm mentally ill again. I was having panic attacks every day (severe enough that I ended up in the emergency room thinking I was having a heart attack or just generally dying). I didn't leave my house for 8 weeks straight. I lived off a meager unemployment check (which turned into disability for a year). When I'd try to leave the house I would panic. I'd go to the grocery store and leave a basket full of groceries in the aisle and run out. Basically I was a mess for 2 solid years. At the advice of my dad I went to see my uncle (who was a Psychology instructor at a community college) who had been working on a system with a partner that was rooted in kinesiology and combined with kind of a modified form of EFT and some psychological aspects. Of course it took me a couple months just to go visit him but he tried the system on me and within a few weeks I was actually NOT having a panic attack every day. Then he recommended I go down to China Town and see an old Chinese herbalist that he used to go to. Well that took me another month or so to do that but I did. That worked even faster. After the first dose I felt better. Within a couple weeks the improvement was night and day. I knew I could not go the pharmaceutical route (had a short stint of that that nearly killed me). I knew I had to beat the anxiety myself so I tried these alternate methods and they worked for me. I'm not saying they could work for everyone but there's alternatives out there. A lot of the disorders/illnesses (anxiety, bipolar, etc. etc.) occur when there are chemical imbalances in the body (not just brain). The drugs doctors prescribe, in theory, "correct" those imbalances. I just don't buy that. I'm not just going on my own experience but the experiences of plenty of my friends over the years as they were on one or more drugs to supposedly correct their depression, their anxiety, their bipolar disorders, etc. I don't know a single long term success story. I have one friend who gave up and stepped down off all her pills, went to a nutritionist and started going the all natural route. She's fine today. Everyone else? Still struggling. So I may not have a degree in medicine but I'm observant and I've got my own experiences. Everyone is basically responsible for their own health. Too many of us rely 100% on doctors who don't know our bodies and minds and treat us all one in the same or try a variety of pills that may hurt us more than help us. Yes, this is my opinion, and you're free to disagree, but I was not helped by the medical world and basically "cured" myself by looking at alternative methods (and I know others who have too) so my experience differs, but I'm glad I did it. I'd most likely be dead if I hadn't.
As for being trans, I don't consider that a mental illness. For me it's something physical. My brain was undeniably bathed in testosterone while I was in the womb. Because of my ultrasound everyone thought my mom was having a boy. Well, big surprise they all got. But seriously, I absolutely don't think I'm some exception to the rule. I may have popped out the shoot with larger than average junk but for the most part I'm stuck in a "female" body just like every other trans guy who doesn't have a diagnosed intersex condition. But having a larger amount of testosterone hit you, especially in the womb, changes things. I think we all have normal brains, we just don't have the bodies that match up with those brains. That to me is not a mental illness.
Quote from: insideontheoutside on February 26, 2013, 06:56:00 PM
A lot of the disorders/illnesses (anxiety, bipolar, etc. etc.) occur when there are chemical imbalances in the body (not just brain). The drugs doctors prescribe, in theory, "correct" those imbalances. I just don't buy that. I'm not just going on my own experience but the experiences of plenty of my friends over the years as they were on one or more drugs to supposedly correct their depression, their anxiety, their bipolar disorders, etc. I don't know a single long term success story. I have one friend who gave up and stepped down off all her pills, went to a nutritionist and started going the all natural route. She's fine today. Everyone else? Still struggling. So I may not have a degree in medicine but I'm observant and I've got my own experiences. Everyone is basically responsible for their own health. Too many of us rely 100% on doctors who don't know our bodies and minds and treat us all one in the same or try a variety of pills that may hurt us more than help us. Yes, this is my opinion, and you're free to disagree, but I was not helped by the medical world and basically "cured" myself by looking at alternative methods (and I know others who have too) so my experience differs, but I'm glad I did it. I'd most likely be dead if I hadn't.
I completely agree that we are an overmedicated culture that uses pharmaceuticals as an excuse in an infinite number of ways.
However -You can't cure severe psychosis with better nutrition. Sometimes you need to be snapped back to reality. Medication does it. Side effects may suck - but it is a lot better than being so crazy you aren't able to stay in touch with the rest of the world. True mental illness is chemical and debilitating just like any other physical problem, and we can't make some things better just by talking about them and drinking herbal tea.
You are 100% correct that physical health is of critical importance to mental health. But if you don't know what is real and what is not, current medication can snap you back into sanity almost instantly. Sometimes people are just really mentally broken and the only way they can even attempt a normal life is through the assistance of an ever-changing cornucopia of pharmaceuticals.
You can't think your way out of true crazy.
Quote from: insideontheoutside on February 26, 2013, 06:56:00 PM
Then he recommended I go down to China Town and see an old Chinese herbalist that he used to go to. Well that took me another month or so to do that but I did. That worked even faster. After the first dose I felt better. Within a couple weeks the improvement was night and day.
Quote from: insideontheoutside on February 26, 2013, 06:56:00 PM
A lot of the disorders/illnesses (anxiety, bipolar, etc. etc.) occur when there are chemical imbalances in the body (not just brain). The drugs doctors prescribe, in theory, "correct" those imbalances. I just don't buy that.
Let me see if I understand you correctly... you believe that doctor-prescribed drugs don't correct chemical imbalances, but that herbalist-prescribed drugs
do correct chemical imbalances, and therefore drugs are bad? Huh? Why do you think that is? Because of your own personal experiences and a handful of anecdotes? Do you really think that the experiences of, what, five, ten people is superior to a double-blind clinical trial on hundreds of patients? Or that some guy who once read a book on herbs knows better than an entire community of professional scientists who devote their lives to carefully studying the effects of chemicals on the human body?
There is no such thing as "alternative medicine": there is only stuff that works, and bull->-bleeped-<-. I'm sorry that you and your friends have had poor experiences with medication, but please, don't fall into the trap of thinking that "alternative" therapy works just because you got lucky with it, or that real medicine is bad because it has flaws.
I think it is a matter of scale.
Better lifestyle choices, talk therapy, and time can correct mild depression. CBT, exposure, environment changes can help anxiety.
But when you get into bipolar territory, a diagnosis of Bipolar 1 disorder usually means there was a state of real psychosis experienced and observed by the doctor. As in, you heard voices - saw things that were not real - believed yourself to be a magical messiah - believed people are really out to get you, etc. This stuff really happens, and while psychosis is mostly associated with schizophrenia - it's a feature of bipolar too.
So, end point - please be careful of lumping all forms of bipolar disorder in with 'things that better lifestyle choices can heal'. Because experiencing psychosis is freaking terrifying, and is definitely not something that can be touched by alternative medicine.
also - the medication works. It takes forever sometimes to find something that works for you, but current medication is so awesome it can even do specific things like still suicidal ideation. Medication prevents bipolar cycling, it can slam down a manic attack before it gets out of control, and it can lift you up enough that you realize the world hasn't completely defeated you.
Quote from: insideontheoutside on February 26, 2013, 06:56:00 PM
I know this might be an unpopular opinion but I think heavily medicating children causes a lot of damage.
I agree. Either the disease doesn't actually exist, it's overdiagnosed, or the drugs simply exacerbate the problem, which is 99% of the time. Frankly, I don't like hopping kids up on drugs being an accepted solution.
Quote from: DianaP on February 26, 2013, 07:40:28 PM
I agree. Either the disease doesn't actually exist, it's overdiagnosed, or the drugs simply exacerbate the problem, which is 99% of the time. Frankly, I don't like hopping kids up on drugs being an accepted solution.
99%? Gosh, that doesn't sound like a made-up number at all.
Quote from: AlexD on February 26, 2013, 07:48:08 PM
99%? Gosh, that doesn't sound like a made-up number at all.
It's the effectiveness several drugs promise, even though side effects for antidepressants include suicidal thoughts ::). If anything, drugs used to treat mental disorders worsen the problem 100% of the time since they don't really fix the problem, but lead to dependency on drugs and several unpleasant side effects. Kill the problem, don't just treat it.
Quote from: DianaP on February 26, 2013, 07:54:23 PM
It's the effectiveness several drugs promise, even though side effects for antidepressants include suicidal thoughts ::). If anything, drugs used to treat mental disorders worsen the problem 100% of the time since they don't really fix the problem, but lead to dependency on drugs and several unpleasant side effects. Kill the problem, don't just treat it.
The problem is a physical problem and can be killed effectively with medication.
Would you tell someone not to take chemotherapy because they will just worsen the problem? Because that's the same line of argument you are making here.
This important because you're basically saying that people who are truly mental ill should just be able to think their way out of it given enough time and healing.
That is not anything close to the argument I'm making. A tumor is not a mental illness. Its an uncontrolled nutrient-sucking growth. If it leads to a change in cognitive process, that's a symptom of the tumor, not an independent problem.
What I'm talking about are antidepressants, Ritalin, and other drugs used to "treat" problems by turning people into zombies.
Quote from: DianaP on February 26, 2013, 07:54:23 PM
It's the effectiveness several drugs promise, even though side effects for antidepressants include suicidal thoughts ::). If anything, drugs used to treat mental disorders worsen the problem 100% of the time since they don't really fix the problem, but lead to dependency on drugs and several unpleasant side effects. Kill the problem, don't just treat it.
More made-up statistics. Do you really think that doctors just throw their patients a box of pills and say "good luck"? When I was diagnosed with AS, I was prescribed no drugs, but my parents were given advice on how to deal with an autistic child. When I visited my GP about my depression -- which was so bad I had actually purchased the tools to commit suicide and was this close to using them -- he gave me a prescription for antidepressants
and a referral to a psychologist.
Medical professionals know perfectly well what treatments their patients need in order to get better, and they will do their best to prescribe the most effective ones, whatever they might be. That is their duty as doctors, and the reason why they spent a decade learning how to be doctors.
It's the same argument. Mental illnesses kill people - they degrade their lives to the point they experience greater percentages of disease than the general population, they literally kill them when people commit suicide, they ruin a person's quality of life and render them unable to participate productively in society.
Having a true mental illness, and that can even include major depression - means excruciating, life destroying, reality ending pain.
Medication can fix that for a lot of people. So what if it has side effects? Tell you what, mild tolerable side effects are way worth being able to return to sanity.
Additionally - some mental illnesses, especially mood disorders, are neuro-degenerative. Yes, that means they eat your brain away. You just keep getting worse. In bipolar disorder, it is called kindling. The image here is your brain is burning.
Guess what is physically proven to stop that? Mood stabilizers. Even better - they act as neuro- regenerators. You get back brain function! Sounds good to me. These drugs started out (and still are) also anti-convulstants. We realized they helped people with mood problems as an afterthought. Isn't science freaking awesome?
I know alternative medicine makes you feel good because living a healthy lifestyle is truly empowering, but in reality - it is 2013 and science is starting to make things fantastic. Enjoy it, don't fear it.
Quote from: AlexD on February 26, 2013, 07:29:40 PM
Let me see if I understand you correctly... you believe that doctor-prescribed drugs don't correct chemical imbalances, but that herbalist-prescribed drugs do correct chemical imbalances, and therefore drugs are bad? Huh? Why do you think that is? Because of your own personal experiences and a handful of anecdotes? Do you really think that the experiences of, what, five, ten people is superior to a double-blind clinical trial on hundreds of patients? Or that some guy who once read a book on herbs knows better than an entire community of professional scientists who devote their lives to carefully studying the effects of chemicals on the human body?
There is no such thing as "alternative medicine": there is only stuff that works, and bull->-bleeped-<-. I'm sorry that you and your friends have had poor experiences with medication, but please, don't fall into the trap of thinking that "alternative" therapy works just because you got lucky with it, or that real medicine is bad because it has flaws.
Don't forget medicine isn't perfect, up into the '70s or '80s doctors told women not to go jogging because it would make their uterus fall out and cause them to grow facial hair.
Also, there's money to be made every time someone gets diagnosed with some kind of "mental illness" so I find it perfectly reasonable that some people are skeptical about the number of diagnoses of mental illness. Of course some things are legit and a child or adult needs some form of medication, but there's so many kids with ADHD that are simply showing signs of just being a child that years ago wouldn't have been considered abnormal behavior.
(And of course, alternative therapy isn't perfect either and there's a lot of people of there who are also just trying to make money and the stuff they make isn't FDA tested or approved.)
Edit: fix typo
Quote from: LearnedHand on February 26, 2013, 08:34:15 PM
Don't forget medicine isn't perfect, up into the '70s or '80s doctors told women not to go jogging because it would make their uterus fall out and cause them to grow facial hair.
If that were true, I would jog every day for hours. Screw hip pain, take my organ of doom!
Heh, I never said it was perfect. But it doesn't need to be perfect to be the best option. People are awfully quick to point out that there's money to be made in selling drugs, but they forget just how much money is spent testing those drugs and making sure they really work before giving them to patients. Alternative therapies don't get that kind of background check -- at least not by the people peddling them. Funnily enough, when they do get tested, they often turn out to be ineffective.
And the ones that do turn out to be effective? They lose the "alternative" label and start being called "medicine".
Quote from: LearnedHand on February 26, 2013, 08:34:15 PM
Don't forget medicine isn't perfect, up into the '70s or '80s doctors told women not to go jogging because it would make their uterus fall out and cause them to grow facial hair.
Also, there's money to be made every time someone gets diagnosed with some kind of "mental illness" so I find it perfectly reasonable that some people are skeptical about the number of diagnoses of mental illness.
Medication only improves through use and research. Finding new ways to fix things is really expensive and needs to be paid for somehow, so they need to market. Are drug companies evil? Yes, so some of it gets over-prescribed. You can't throw out medication because it has some negative issues when holding yourself to impossible standards just means no progress is ever made.
Expressing skepticism is one thing and I agree with it being way more prevalent now then it needs to be because of the culture, but blanket statements about how medication isn't effective ever, or that natural methods can solve all, undercuts the reality of mental illness as a true disease, which is actually a bit offensive for people who really have to struggle and live with it.
Quote from: AlexD on February 26, 2013, 08:46:26 PM
Heh, I never said it was perfect. But it doesn't need to be perfect to be the best option. People are awfully quick to point out that there's money to be made in selling drugs, but they forget just how much money is spent testing those drugs and making sure they really work before giving them to patients. Alternative therapies don't get that kind of background check -- at least not by the people peddling them. Funnily enough, when they do get tested, they often turn out to be ineffective.
And the ones that do turn out to be effective? They lose the "alternative" label and start being called "medicine".
I am well aware of the millions of dollars spent in testing drugs and all the years of hard work that goes into it, then the money comes in later. I am not saying they shouldn't make money on drugs, but I was saying that I find it reasonable to think that some children are being overdiagnosed because doctors and pharmaceutical companies make money off of sick people. Keep people sick or thinking they are sick brings in business. I do agree with what spacerace said earlier, sometimes people need some drugs to snap them out of it and bring them to a level where talking therapy could work. I just agree with inside that some of the numbers of children being diagnosed with mental illnesses is a bit alarming when it is perfectly normal for a child to not want to pay attention to a boring math lesson at the age of 6, or to have some ups and downs in their mood. I also agree that
sometimes a patient should do their own research and decide whether or not they want to blindly follow the directions of a doctor, who isn't a God, or go and try something they'd find more suitable; technically chiroprators are considered "alternative medicine" but I am glad I was referred to one when my wrist got messed up at work instead of getting wrist surgery done.
Either way, I wasn't trying to start a fight over whether or not the medical industry is a giant evil corporation; and I know I probably didn't explain things correctly and might just be confusing everyone. Sorry Simon for contributing to bringing this off topic. ;D
Nah, it's my fault this went off-topic. Scepticism is a red button topic for me, I suppose, and I let my desire to argue (hoo boy, do I ever love to argue) get the better of me. Apologies, everyone. :P
Quote from: LearnedHand on February 26, 2013, 08:59:22 PM
I just agree with inside that some of the numbers of children being diagnosed with mental illnesses is a bit alarming when it is perfectly normal for a child to not want to pay attention to a boring math lesson at the age of 6, or to have some ups and downs in their mood. I also agree that sometimes a patient should do their own research and decide whether or not they want to blindly follow the directions of a doctor, who isn't a God, or go and try something they'd find more suitable;
Exactly.
Technically, this "digression" is my fault, but I don't see what's wrong here. We're transgender individuals talking about mental disorders. :P
Quote from: DianaP on February 26, 2013, 09:07:10 PM
Exactly.
Technically, this "digression" is my fault, but I don't see what's wrong here. We're transgender individuals talking about mental disorders. :P
Yeah, I just get serious because I had to be convinced of the effectiveness of medication and now I have the zeal of a convert. sorry for contributing to the diversion.
Quote from: Simon on February 25, 2013, 12:39:25 PM
My question is, does anyone else have a mental illness (no, you don't have to say what it is if you're uncomfortable doing so) that is unrelated to being trans? If so, do you also think of being trans as another mental illness or something possibly effected by the mental illness you have?
Depression and social anxiety.
It's rather complicated with me, but I'll try to explain it out. It's going to be a bit long (maybe) since I have to give a little bit of background on my life.
When I was 3, I became paralyzed from the chin down due to Guillain-Barré Syndrome. At this point in time, my personality did a complete 180. My dad and mom both say it was like a flip had been switched. Before I was happy and I was very bubbly and willing to talk to others. Afterwards I became more withdrawn and I was no longer bubbly. [My dad said once that it was like the soul had been sucked out of me.] The personality change is understandable as nearly dying does things to you even at that age.
I would suffer from flare-ups until I was 18 [knock on wood] so it was usually on my mind. There was always the possibility I would die if I had a flare-up (which could be triggered from something as simple as a cold) and I knew that, even when I was 7. On top of knowing this I had problems making friends. I was made fun of because of how I walked [I have the gait of a horse (I forgot the technical term)] and my personality was never truly outgoing. I didn't care for people for a variety of reasons though I desperately wanted friends; I just couldn't get myself out there because I was scared [-insert social anxiety disorder-]. Depression went hand-in-hand with this and I have been struggling with depression for as long as I can remember. It melded nicely with the SAD in that it helped produce someone who lacked motivation to go out and was very nervous in social situations. (I had no true friends until I was 21.)
Gender problems never ever crossed my mind because of my preoccupation with knowing I could die at any time and because I lacked friends. I just wanted to be a normal kid and I had no time to think about what was between legs so gender problems never contributed to the depression and social anxiety early on in my life.
When I finally had a handle of my other problems [minus not having friends] I could focus more on
me and understand more about my own personal identity. It is affected by my depression and social anxiety in that I'm scared about transitioning and being viewed as different. It also might seem so much worse because of my depression though I can't be certain as I can't remember a time where I was ever truly happy.
It's also been affected in that I don't have the same experiences that many trans* people report. I don't ever remember thinking "I'm a boy" when I was a kid or even thinking "I want to be a boy". I don't remember anything like that earlier than the age of 16. It often makes me feel like many trans* people don't belief me when I say I'm trans* and I know it's affecting my parents' ability to believe me.
Quote from: LearnedHand on February 26, 2013, 08:59:22 PM
I just agree with inside that some of the numbers of children being diagnosed with mental illnesses is a bit alarming when it is perfectly normal for a child to not want to pay attention to a boring math lesson at the age of 6, or to have some ups and downs in their mood
You see, it's weird. Some kids are medicated at the flick of a switch, over developmentally appropriate behavior. But then there are kids like me, who were acting so beyond messed up for years, with a blind eye turned for the most part, or an explanation of "Oh it's just hormones" or even worse, the assumption that I was a bad kid. I was hospitalized four times and saw my psychiatrist for over a year and a half before even gave me a bipolar diagnosis. The system in and of itself doesn't usually push to give young people diagnosises and medication. It's either the kid is acting extremely messed up in some way, or the parents or somebody is pushing for it. At least from what I saw where I was, my personal experience. Could be different in different places :-\
ADD, Anxiety, and Depression.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on February 25, 2013, 01:16:02 PM
For myself, it's like "which came first, the chicken or the egg"...am I trans because I'm mentally ill, or am I mentally ill because I'm trans?
im the same way with dysphoria and depression. I'm depressed and i have ADHD which isn't quite a mental illness. I'm ok with the depression and ADHD at the moment.
Quote from: Sarah7 on February 25, 2013, 08:00:22 PM
That's not really where the division gets made. There are brain conditions, which are physiological. And mental conditions, which are psychological.
In which case, if there is ever a concensus that transgendered identities have a structural cause in the brain, I suppose we can expect to get taken out of the DSM? Seems to me we might be a decade or less away from having such a concensus but maybe I'm being too much of an optimist?
Quote from: Elspeth on February 27, 2013, 05:19:03 PM
In which case, if there is ever a concensus that transgendered identities have a structural cause in the brain, I suppose we can expect to get taken out of the DSM? Seems to me we might be a decade or less away from having such a concensus but maybe I'm being too much of an optimist?
My main worry over that is whether or not someone could do a brain scan of me and reveal that I "should" be a guy. :/
Quote from: AlexD on February 26, 2013, 07:29:40 PM
Let me see if I understand you correctly... you believe that doctor-prescribed drugs don't correct chemical imbalances, but that herbalist-prescribed drugs do correct chemical imbalances, and therefore drugs are bad? Huh? Why do you think that is? Because of your own personal experiences and a handful of anecdotes? Do you really think that the experiences of, what, five, ten people is superior to a double-blind clinical trial on hundreds of patients? Or that some guy who once read a book on herbs knows better than an entire community of professional scientists who devote their lives to carefully studying the effects of chemicals on the human body?
There is no such thing as "alternative medicine": there is only stuff that works, and bull->-bleeped-<-. I'm sorry that you and your friends have had poor experiences with medication, but please, don't fall into the trap of thinking that "alternative" therapy works just because you got lucky with it, or that real medicine is bad because it has flaws.
I don't know who this "some guy who once read a book on herbs" is that you speak of. Chinese herbalists go through as much, or more schooling, in legitimate colleges, as westernized medical doctors. In fact, most have devoted their entire lives to their field. One of the Chinese doctors I used to go to started apprenticing with his grandfather when he was 6 and he still did 10 years of schooling (in China and the U.S.) to get his degrees and then licenses to practice Chinese medicine (herbs and acupuncture) in the U.S.. So your statement is actually kind of flippant and frankly misinformed to me.
Thousands of years of herbal medicine (and let us not forget that many pharmaceutical drugs are formulated off of natural substances) actually does validate, to me, that a number of these "alternatives" work (beyond just my personal and anecdotal experiences). So do all the double blind studies that have actually been conducted on herbs (and there have been). If you believe all that's bulls*it, that's your opinion. It's funny to me though that you think "real medicine" only comes from western M.D.s and scientists. A few others have already pointed out that doctors and scientists have been wrong over the years. But yeah, those thousands of years that humans all over the earth have been using herbs is all make believe. That's the sort of thing pharmaceutical scientists use as a basis to formulate chemical drugs (the validity that certain herbs and plants have been used for one thing or another – then they create the chemical equivalent in order to patent and sell it).
But I can freely admit there is a place for pharmaceuticals in the world. If I had a severe infection, I'd want some antibiotics. Legit psychotic illnesses are best treated by pharmaceuticals, etc. Some people need heart medication or diabetes medication or a myriad of other things in order to keep living. No one is saying that isn't true. I did mention I had what some may consider an unpopular opinion. I also was pretty careful not to say "ALL" at any point. I don't trust most doctors, I don't trust the pharmaceutical industry as a whole ... but you know what, I'm free to do so. Just like you're free to believe that's the only stuff that's "real".
It's pretty simple. Scientists test to see what work, and only use the stuff that works, and are contantly reviewing established theories to root out mistakes and correct them. "Traditional" and "alternative" practioners just use whatever they think sounds like a good idea, and if it happens to work, that's a bonus; if it doesn't work, oh well, let's just try the same thing again and hope it works this time. I don't doubt that the majority of them genuinely believe their stuff works, genuinely want to help others get better, and have genuinely stumbled upon some effective treatments -- but their approach is still dangerous.
And I never said you weren't free to believe what you want. Of course you are. But I'm also allowed to disagree. :3
Quote from: AlexD on February 28, 2013, 10:14:12 AM
It's pretty simple. Scientists test to see what work, and only use the stuff that works, and are contantly reviewing established theories to root out mistakes and correct them. "Traditional" and "alternative" practioners just use whatever they think sounds like a good idea, and if it happens to work, that's a bonus; if it doesn't work, oh well, let's just try the same thing again and hope it works this time. I don't doubt that the majority of them genuinely believe their stuff works, genuinely want to help others get better, and have genuinely stumbled upon some effective treatments -- but their approach is still dangerous.
And I never said you weren't free to believe what you want. Of course you are. But I'm also allowed to disagree. :3
I think it depends on the community, sure there's a lot of crazy people out there who go into alternative "medicice" to make a quick buck. But, there's others who truly believe their stuff works and are successful at it. For example, (I wish I could find the article, but alas, it's long lost in the BBC World Service archives) an American nurse was doing some volunteer work in South America, she was training midwives down there, but while she was down there, she learned about some midwives up in the mountains of whatever country she was in. While she was there, she visited these midwives and learned all sorts of amazing techniques to deliever safely babies who would normaly require a c-section here in the US using ancient techniques. Now, back in the US, she tried to show others these techniques, but doctors just ignore it and still give c-sections, no one has tried to do any studies. The US, being one of the richest countries in the world, has one of the highest birth death rates out of any Western nation, which is really freakin' crazy. Though these ancient techniques she learned are probably considered "alternative medicine" we're not giving it a second look and instead still cut women open thinking it's the best way to deliever whenever something isn't "normal" and have one of the highest infant mortality rates.
Science in itself is a beautiful thing which I highly respect, though (now I am going to sound like our crazy banned blogger with her male medical machine comments and other anti-medical establishment tangents :D ) medicine and science isn't genuine when politics and money get involved. Pharmaceutical companies invest up to $1billion and 10-15 years into developing and testing drugs, some of which fail and never even are bothered with FDA testing, etc, and it's all lost money for them, so when drugs do come out and are marketed, the companies have a vested interest in keeping them out there so they can make their wages and fund other studies for new blockbuster drugs. To protect this vested interest, these same companies will buy patents from other drug makers who are smaller and not as well funded, in order to prevent other competition to their blockbuster drugs, those patents just sit there and their designs which could be for a brilliantly helpful drug just sit there. I think this is wrong, and isn't in the true spirit of science and progress, yet no one, even if they have the money to invest in the making of the drug, can use those patents. I also think it's wrong when these big drug companies actively bribe doctors by giving them exotic trips to "medical confrences" in Hawaii, payments, etc. Luckily, I wasn't the only person to be disturbed by this, and Congress actually got together and made regulations in order to make these relationships more transparent. There's also a huge medical lobby that actively keeps other parts of the medical industry from being recognized in order to protect their best interests, their Board of Directors are just like those in any other company who are practicing their fiduciary duties and actively seek to bring in the most amounts of favorable income and investment for their shareholders or other constituents, so their first priority isn't about the wonders of science or the desire to help people. Individual scientists who work for the companies probably have the interest of the people at heart, and truly want to cure diseases and make the world a better place, but unfortunately human nature within government and corporatations can get in the way.
While science does do tests to see what works, not everything is the best out there and some (not all) of it is involved in shady business practices that goes against what some people consider to be moral; and not all alternative medicine is untested (like chiropractors, massage therapists, meditation) or done by crazy people. While you might think me and Inside are just some hippies who shop at Wholefoods after driving a SUV who can't see the light and are blindly following sideshow freaks, you also should recognize that not all alternative medicine practicioners just do what they think sounds good and doesn't care about their patients. Many authentic alternative therapies have been examine by studies (like Tufts University's pain management clinic has done studies on Chinese therapies and their result that I've read about hasn't proven these therapies as ineffective or fraudulent), and "real" doctors even refer patients to alternative therapies (all of my clients as work who've been involved in car accidents had real doctors refer them to acupuncture, massage therapy, and/or chiropractors which are all within the alt. medicine umbrella). The ones who are dangerous are people who are practicing something that doesn't have a 1,000 or so year tradition, or who hasn't been trained by someone who's practiced the tradition; news stories like that woman who injected someone with urine as a therapy isn't the norm but people like her are scary and dangerous. If something has been around for 1,000 years and has been 100% or even let's say 60% ineffective probably wouldn't have stuck around for such a long time, there has to be something about those traditions that are doing something right.
Agree to disagree, I'll shut up now. There's so much we could go back and forth on, only a 20+ page paper will accurately reflect my views, so I won't bore you anymore. ;D
Wow I must've missed something then, real life distracted me :D
I hope it want anything too bad, I thought everything was in light spirits
Quote from: Trixie on February 27, 2013, 06:32:48 PM
My main worry over that is whether or not someone could do a brain scan of me and reveal that I "should" be a guy. :/
Is this a serious concern, or was this just an off-hand comment? I ask, only because I don't want to perseverate with a meditation on what the advantages would be (as well as the legit concerns) should we ever be at a point where there were an objective test available. Keep in mind as with anything medical, that there will still be a risk of false negative and false positive tests, and that detecting brain differences may well turn out to be only a significant
part of the whole story.
Quote from: Elspeth on February 28, 2013, 03:54:28 PM
Is this a serious concern, or was this just an off-hand comment? I ask, only because I don't want to perseverate with a meditation on what the advantages would be (as well as the legit concerns) should we ever be at a point where there were an objective test available. Keep in mind as with anything medical, that there will still be a risk of false negative and false positive tests, and that detecting brain differences may well turn out to be only a significant part of the whole story.
It's a serious concern for me, at least. Less so now than in the past where it was a consuming fear of mine. I'm just not sure I'm okay with the idea of somebody being able to "test" me and tell me what my gender identity should be.
I fear it could lead some people to be in basically the same situation as now - told by society to be a gender they don't want to be, but this time because of the results of tests rather than what the doctor saw when they were born.
I am interested in your thoughts on the subject, but I understand if you don't wish to comment further.
Okay, folks, I am unlocking this topic, with a proviso.
When the OP notes in the title, "Trigger Warning," we need to be aware that the subject matter could cause problems for some of the membership. Sometimes, these topics are not for the faint-of-heart or the immature.
We had one member have a melt down in the topic and quit. I don't want to see that happen again.
At birth there was an accident that took place and caused me to have a sever learning disability *aka very slow learner* the right side of my body was paralyzed for a week from how much oxygen my brain had lost and thus caused me to lose some of its ability.This means i take 30x longer to learn things,i get frustrated easy.in a nut shell i have very slow processing and understanding when it comes to learning,tho oddly,learn very fast when it comes to wisdom and pain,life experiences.This and along with the below is why i am on SSI disability.
I have major depressive disorder
Agoraphobia
Sever anxiety which has morphed from panic attacks to rage attacks *aka instead of running away,i have gained a sense of fighting back*
OCD *tho this is hard to explain and one i do not wish to go into.it is not as sever for me as it seems*
Was told i *might* be Bipolar but i was never tested to make sure.
I do have a replay or repeat disorder *cant remember or find the correct term atm* it is when every bad event or people or well anything,is on repeat within your mind,trying to find solutions,asking why and so on.
Quote from: Jamie D on March 01, 2013, 01:47:11 PM
Okay, folks, I am unlocking this topic, with a proviso.
When the OP notes in the title, "Trigger Warning," we need to be aware that the subject matter could cause problems for some of the membership. Sometimes, these topics are not for the faint-of-heart or the immature.
We had one member have a melt down in the topic and quit. I don't want to see that happen again.
Thank you, Jamie, for clarifying the situation. I could only see hints of the meltdown (the post alluded to had already been removed before I could read it or have a sense of what had transpired) and was hesitant to respond to Trixie further while I was unsure of the situation.
Will take all due precautions once I have time and mental clarity to continue myself. I'm sure this thread is triggering a few things for me too.
Wow, I feel terrible now going back and seeing that gradual meltdown unfold. I guess this is why a trigger warning should never go ignored.
Didn't mention this before because it's not a mental illness IMO, but I have some massive sensory issues. Some of them are downright awful, others amazing in ways I can't explain. It's likely connected to what they've diagnosed as a relatively mild case of cerebral palsy; while coordination is a nightmare and my tight tendons and spasticness made the occupational therapist ask if I had been the victim of a stroke, my somewhat unique long-term memory, cross-linked senses, and raw capacity of my brain to produce output lead me to believe that it compensates for the physical disabilities. That tends to make it even more frustrating to be limited by my body, especially since speech decides not to work at times so I can't even communicate my anger because it deteriorates into me screaming nonsensical gibberish. My brain is well aware of my body's limitations, but it's annoying to have something that can generate and maintain a complex universe down to the molecule and retain memories of dreams within dreams be confined when it comes to sharing its power.
I'm also subject to the occasional moment of derp, but aren't we all?
The line that separates the physiological and psycholgical aspects of our brains is measured and drawn according to the extent of our (humanity's) understanding, or lack therof, of brain function. I honestly believe that in time we will see that distinction as being more and more semantic and probably more and more things will be removed from the DSM as we come to understand things like neuro-science better. I think if mental illness carries a stigma it's because, by definition, we don't understand it very well and you know how some people feel about the mysterious.. We don't understand it, so probably it's monsters...